1
00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:04,920
Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

2
00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,080
Speaker 1: Detective see a side of life the average persons never

3
00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,120
Speaker 1: exposed her. I spent thirty four years as a cop.

4
00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,040
Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.

5
00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:16,240
Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

6
00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,560
Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

7
00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,160
Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

8
00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,439
Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

9
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,800
Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

10
00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,479
Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

11
00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,640
Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

12
00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,680
Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

13
00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,400
Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.

14
00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,720
Speaker 1: Welcome back to part two of my chat with Elliott McLaren,

15
00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,240
Speaker 1: a half caste, left handed, gay Scottish Maori who was

16
00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,160
Speaker 1: also a drug addict, drug dealer, standover man, and now

17
00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,400
Speaker 1: pursues his passion as a stand up comedian. Elt You're

18
00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:00,360
Speaker 1: a complex character.

19
00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,000
Speaker 2: Tell me about it. I'm still trying to figure myself out.

20
00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,440
Speaker 1: I'm trying to keep this podcast on track, but we

21
00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,000
Speaker 1: just go off on little deviations all the time. But

22
00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,000
Speaker 1: you've got so many things to talk about. But you

23
00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,920
Speaker 1: know here on my catch Killers, we love complex characters,

24
00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:18,200
Speaker 1: so I'm enjoying myself. So welcome back to part two.

25
00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:18,640
Speaker 2: Thank you.

26
00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,840
Speaker 1: Now we manage through great trial and tribulation get you

27
00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:27,399
Speaker 1: through to your sort of early twenties. Yeap, okay. Your

28
00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,280
Speaker 1: life was sort of all over the place at this stage,

29
00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,360
Speaker 1: holding onto sem anger stemming from the victim of child's

30
00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:39,280
Speaker 1: sexual abuse, suppressing your sexuality because you didn't want to

31
00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,520
Speaker 1: come out. There's a gay man in an environment that, yeah,

32
00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:48,320
Speaker 1: the community demonstrated was not acceptable. What age did you

33
00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,080
Speaker 1: come out? What age did you put your hand up

34
00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:51,120
Speaker 1: and go, hey, this is me.

35
00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,440
Speaker 2: I was still twenty, I was just before I tuned

36
00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,240
Speaker 2: twenty one. It was it was it was a week

37
00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,440
Speaker 2: of Christmas, end of the year I was. I was

38
00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,040
Speaker 2: still twenty at the time, and I just I got

39
00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:04,680
Speaker 2: run over by car. I've just been run over by

40
00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:05,080
Speaker 2: this car.

41
00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,200
Speaker 1: I forgot to include that in my nose.

42
00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:10,920
Speaker 2: I'd just been running and I like, I'm really excellent praying.

43
00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,000
Speaker 2: I've been in the hospital heaps of times, but this

44
00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,040
Speaker 2: one was funny because it was my last cigarette. I

45
00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,120
Speaker 2: remember was sitting there. I was sitting there with my

46
00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,679
Speaker 2: cousin at the drive. My cousin to your guys version

47
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:23,359
Speaker 2: of the Big W eleven o'clock at night in the

48
00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,640
Speaker 2: Westfield car park. He's getting his little brother's presents for

49
00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,919
Speaker 2: Christmas twenty second of December. And I'm sitting there. I'm

50
00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:31,760
Speaker 2: swinging my last cigarette and I'm waiting for my doll

51
00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:33,920
Speaker 2: to come through at midnight so I can go and

52
00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,280
Speaker 2: get some smokes. And I thought, this is eleven o'clock,

53
00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,040
Speaker 2: I'll smoke my last CIGGI I can hold out until

54
00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,400
Speaker 2: the end. And I'm sitting there and I dropped my

55
00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,400
Speaker 2: cigarette just after a little I drotted out of dropped

56
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,040
Speaker 2: it out of the driver's side window and it rolled

57
00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:45,520
Speaker 2: onto my car. And I'm in a car park with

58
00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,160
Speaker 2: three hundred cars. Car space is empty. It's the middle

59
00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:49,560
Speaker 2: of the night, and so I'm like, okay, this is

60
00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,200
Speaker 2: this is fine. I'll just get my CIGI and I

61
00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:52,880
Speaker 2: regular under the car to get it, and I remember

62
00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:54,920
Speaker 2: I just managed a pinchon in my fingers and I

63
00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,160
Speaker 2: was so happy. I was like, yeah, I've got my cigarette.

64
00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,000
Speaker 2: And I just saw headlights and my gut's just crumbled.

65
00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:01,680
Speaker 2: I knew for some reason, I don't know why, but

66
00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:03,160
Speaker 2: I knew that car was going to park on me.

67
00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,160
Speaker 2: And they just sung into the car bight next to

68
00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:07,800
Speaker 2: me and just parked on top of my They dragged

69
00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,640
Speaker 2: both my legs underneath the car and then parked on

70
00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,320
Speaker 2: both my ankles. And the poor girl he played, he

71
00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,000
Speaker 2: who was driving, and I think she was on her owls.

72
00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,519
Speaker 1: Actually I don't know what I'm laughing, but I am laughing.

73
00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,600
Speaker 2: It sounds so funny. And I'm under the car like

74
00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:22,679
Speaker 2: sort of skewing under the car, and I remember yelling.

75
00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:23,960
Speaker 2: I was like, fuck, you're on top of me in

76
00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,320
Speaker 2: this and the poor girl penned and she did mate.

77
00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,360
Speaker 2: But the problem was that she died a fright, and

78
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,400
Speaker 2: she dropped the clutch to sort of get off me

79
00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:33,359
Speaker 2: as quickly as she can. She didn't do a smooth

80
00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,160
Speaker 2: gear change, and so when she dropped the clutch, it

81
00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,320
Speaker 2: just skittered the front tires up that were parked on

82
00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,400
Speaker 2: top of my legs, and it took the top of

83
00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,560
Speaker 2: the ball joint out of my ankle, took the top

84
00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:43,640
Speaker 2: of the bone off as a tie. I skittered, it

85
00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,520
Speaker 2: ripped the bone out, ripped all the flesh off and

86
00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,680
Speaker 2: then and she went over my legs and I got up.

87
00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,800
Speaker 2: When I stood up and I leaned on the passenger window,

88
00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:52,800
Speaker 2: her boyfriend was in the passenger and I looked at it.

89
00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,200
Speaker 2: I was like, fuck there and they're like, oh my god.

90
00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,040
Speaker 2: And the boyfriend's like, you know, okay, mae to you, okay,

91
00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,240
Speaker 2: he's two park your kids, Yeah, okay mate, And I

92
00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,080
Speaker 2: was like, fucking, I think I was wearing gang cars

93
00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,000
Speaker 2: covered in gang colors. I had a blue band down

94
00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,600
Speaker 2: and blue shorts on a blue singleer. These poor kids

95
00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,000
Speaker 2: are like they're dying because they're like, not only run

96
00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:11,880
Speaker 2: someone over, I run a fucking game.

97
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:14,480
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to picture it. So they come in

98
00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,159
Speaker 1: shopping center car park, they're probably coming in there to

99
00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:23,440
Speaker 1: do their shopping or whatever. And then a bump go

100
00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,400
Speaker 1: over here and they look down and there you are

101
00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:26,719
Speaker 1: with a smoking your hand.

102
00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I got I still holding my smoker, got

103
00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,560
Speaker 2: out holding my smokers like that fucking and just had

104
00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,359
Speaker 2: a drag and then looked at them and then I

105
00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:35,840
Speaker 2: was like, I'm going to go home in the bed.

106
00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,000
Speaker 2: I think it's going to get some more ice. And

107
00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:39,400
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm going to go on the bed,

108
00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,159
Speaker 2: and but I was like, I'm going to score my

109
00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,479
Speaker 2: fucking legs killing me. I gotta get some drugs. And

110
00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,680
Speaker 2: my cousin's flatmate was in the car at the time.

111
00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:48,880
Speaker 2: Cousins still in the fucking in the shop and my

112
00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,280
Speaker 2: cousin's flat mats in the in the car and he goes, no, man,

113
00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,640
Speaker 2: we've got to take you a He panicked. He's like,

114
00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:55,600
Speaker 2: we got to take get hospital. This is fucking really

115
00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:56,359
Speaker 2: bad that today.

116
00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:57,920
Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, no, no, it's all good.

117
00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,040
Speaker 2: Just give me some drugs and I'll be fine. And

118
00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,680
Speaker 2: he jumps in there, puts me in the passenger, jumps

119
00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,559
Speaker 2: in the drivers. That's It's like it was taking a drift.

120
00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,760
Speaker 2: This guy was racing, racing in the hospital. You're going

121
00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,000
Speaker 2: to kill us on the way to the hospital, You're idiot.

122
00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:12,919
Speaker 2: And and we got to the hospital and they wheeled

123
00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:14,599
Speaker 2: me in on a wheelchair. I don't know if it

124
00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,520
Speaker 2: was because I had all these these gang colors on

125
00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,719
Speaker 2: or what, but they did not want to serve me.

126
00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,160
Speaker 2: The hospital staff took for ear. But it gets to

127
00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:24,800
Speaker 2: me I sat there for an hour league bleeding.

128
00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,120
Speaker 1: Maybe because you're off your faces off my.

129
00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,479
Speaker 2: Face, you know, I'm off my face, I'm high, out

130
00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,680
Speaker 2: of my mind, and I and you know, just I

131
00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,880
Speaker 2: looked really unsavory. I had no shoes on. It wasn't

132
00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:35,520
Speaker 2: even wearing shoes. When I got to the big w

133
00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,680
Speaker 2: I had no shoes on. And they wheeled me in

134
00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,280
Speaker 2: and they pulled this rlb toothbrush out of the out

135
00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:44,200
Speaker 2: of the packet, and the guy just scrubbed the scrub

136
00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:44,880
Speaker 2: the bone clean.

137
00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:45,800
Speaker 1: That was it.

138
00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:47,200
Speaker 2: And that was the only thing they really did for me.

139
00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,320
Speaker 2: They scrubbed all the bones clean with a toothbrush, hosed

140
00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,560
Speaker 2: it all off, got all the tire rubber and the

141
00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,520
Speaker 2: stones and bits of glass out of my ankle, and

142
00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:57,280
Speaker 2: then he banded it up and he just said made it.

143
00:05:57,720 --> 00:05:59,720
Speaker 2: If you get it infected, I'm gonna have to take

144
00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:01,840
Speaker 2: your leave. Go for the knee. So don't you do feet?

145
00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:03,440
Speaker 2: And he goes, nah, we just do above them below

146
00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,960
Speaker 2: the knee. I said, that's that's a pretty that's a

147
00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:07,039
Speaker 2: pretty small menu, mate.

148
00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:12,880
Speaker 1: It's a well. Life's going good for you. Yeah, everything,

149
00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:15,040
Speaker 1: everything's going going well.

150
00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,279
Speaker 2: It was great. I was living at this mild house,

151
00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:21,839
Speaker 2: I think mongrel mob house. There was all these uh,

152
00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,680
Speaker 2: this fellow I worked with him. His brother was a

153
00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,400
Speaker 2: sergeant of arms of the mongrelob Some people are familiar

154
00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:29,880
Speaker 2: with the movie here, not everybody, but they're really big.

155
00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:31,880
Speaker 1: Very very powerful, very powerful.

156
00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, very heavy, gang like very heavy. They do a

157
00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,120
Speaker 2: lot of a lot of crimes. I think the initiation

158
00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:37,919
Speaker 2: back in the day was a raper and murder to

159
00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,000
Speaker 2: get in. So a lot of heavy characters, especially the Ogs.

160
00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,080
Speaker 2: The old boys are real heavy characters. And I was

161
00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:47,040
Speaker 2: living at this house and I started talking to this guy.

162
00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:48,920
Speaker 2: I met him actually while I was still bandage. It

163
00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,600
Speaker 2: was only about a week later. I went round to

164
00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,479
Speaker 2: this guy's house to hook up with him, Maldi Fella

165
00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,040
Speaker 2: from South Aukland, and absolutely loved them the best at

166
00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:58,560
Speaker 2: the best time ever. It was such a it was

167
00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:00,359
Speaker 2: such a great feeling. And it was not because we

168
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:01,800
Speaker 2: were at his house. It was out of the city.

169
00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:03,479
Speaker 2: I didn't feel like I had any eyes on me

170
00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,159
Speaker 2: or anything like that because prior to then I was

171
00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:06,839
Speaker 2: hooking up with guys but on the secret.

172
00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,640
Speaker 1: So okay, so this was you hadn't come out with

173
00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:14,160
Speaker 1: your with your gang mates or nobody knew. I'm still

174
00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,680
Speaker 1: deep in the closet, but you were. You would find

175
00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,600
Speaker 1: partners and find people to hook up with, and you

176
00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:21,320
Speaker 1: do that, but do it on the quiet.

177
00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:22,760
Speaker 2: On the quiet, And there was times i'd go there.

178
00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,160
Speaker 2: Sometimes i'd go to the sauna. The sauna was good too,

179
00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,640
Speaker 2: because you could sell drugs at the sauna, so you

180
00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:29,920
Speaker 2: could go there. One stop shop, yeah, one stop job.

181
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,080
Speaker 2: It was business and please, you're all in the same building.

182
00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:34,080
Speaker 2: And I would go there and you could do that,

183
00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:35,840
Speaker 2: and and I would hook up with guys. But I

184
00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,000
Speaker 2: remember it was it was in the an area of

185
00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,720
Speaker 2: the city where there was a lot of people who

186
00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:42,040
Speaker 2: were the same colors that I did.

187
00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:42,920
Speaker 1: I was.

188
00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,080
Speaker 2: I was always terrified because he'd come out of the

189
00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:46,760
Speaker 2: building at night, and you'd always poke your head out

190
00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:48,320
Speaker 2: on the street and you'd look both ways to make

191
00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,480
Speaker 2: sure there was nobody who you might know and nobody

192
00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,400
Speaker 2: who might know somebody you know coming out of that building.

193
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,600
Speaker 2: So I was terrified. And when I was hanging out,

194
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,920
Speaker 2: this guy was a really nice, relaxed sort of set up.

195
00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:02,320
Speaker 2: We hung out, I stayed the night. We keep messaging

196
00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,920
Speaker 2: and I'd just been run over. Life was looking pretty bad.

197
00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:07,760
Speaker 2: I didn't really have a lot of options. I had

198
00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,480
Speaker 2: no money. I think I was about to be homeless again,

199
00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:13,720
Speaker 2: and we chatted for a few months, and then it

200
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,800
Speaker 2: wasn't long after that I ended up staying in his

201
00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,040
Speaker 2: house like every single night, and then I was just

202
00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:20,600
Speaker 2: like and then he was His mum was like, do

203
00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:22,440
Speaker 2: you just want to live here? Said yeah, I'd love to,

204
00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,880
Speaker 2: because she knew the situation I was in. Sheid, we'll

205
00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:26,280
Speaker 2: take care and it's all good, you can live here.

206
00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,000
Speaker 2: So I was stoked. I was really happy I started

207
00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,360
Speaker 2: living with him. It wasn't long after that it was

208
00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:36,640
Speaker 2: my twenty first was coming up, and I remember I

209
00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,800
Speaker 2: there was something trying to stoic about it, but like

210
00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,080
Speaker 2: it was sort of old school but new school combined

211
00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,560
Speaker 2: where I was like, yeah, I'm gay, which is I

212
00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:46,240
Speaker 2: was really ashamed of and I was still deep in

213
00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:47,760
Speaker 2: the closet about it. But at the same time, this

214
00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:49,840
Speaker 2: was my partner, and I didn't want to have my

215
00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,560
Speaker 2: twenty first without celebrating my partner, and you know, that

216
00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,679
Speaker 2: would just be such a I just found out. I

217
00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:57,200
Speaker 2: just thought, of my head, that was just such a

218
00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,160
Speaker 2: weak thing to do to keep it a secret, and

219
00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,280
Speaker 2: I was and so I told. I told my cousin,

220
00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:05,959
Speaker 2: I told a few people I knew, I told my

221
00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,600
Speaker 2: parents trying to come out of the closet. To my mom,

222
00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,240
Speaker 2: she didn't believe me. So that was the worst. That

223
00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,440
Speaker 2: was the worst coming out overhead was trying to tell

224
00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,120
Speaker 2: someone you're gay and they don't believe you in you're

225
00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,280
Speaker 2: and you're like blue in the face, like no, I'm gay,

226
00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,959
Speaker 2: and my mom's like, no, you're not. I'm like no,

227
00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:21,480
Speaker 2: I am, and she's like I don't believe you. And

228
00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,160
Speaker 2: then she just and then after all she was like,

229
00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,040
Speaker 2: this isn't even a funny joke. While you're trying to

230
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,080
Speaker 2: I was always a funny character, always trying to do

231
00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:27,559
Speaker 2: funny shit.

232
00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:28,800
Speaker 1: And she's like, this isn't even funny.

233
00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:30,720
Speaker 2: I don't know why you're trying to trying to flog

234
00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:32,679
Speaker 2: this horse, like it doesn't make any sense. I'm no,

235
00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,240
Speaker 2: I'm being serious. My mom gay And she just looked

236
00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:36,640
Speaker 2: at me and she goes, oh, knock me down at

237
00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:38,400
Speaker 2: a feather dust. I always thought it to be your brother.

238
00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,520
Speaker 1: Just can't can't accept it. I couldn't believe it. Yeah,

239
00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,360
Speaker 1: I've seen I've seen that no name, no pactrials, so

240
00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,320
Speaker 1: I identify the people. But I've seen that with people

241
00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,320
Speaker 1: that just can't accept it and they don't. It's not

242
00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,040
Speaker 1: you can't even take offense because it's not done maliciously.

243
00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:00,000
Speaker 1: It's just something that they don't even haven't even comprehended.

244
00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,200
Speaker 2: Nah, they'd never crossed in my own one. So, like

245
00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:03,680
Speaker 2: you know, I have all the kids my mom had,

246
00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:05,680
Speaker 2: I was the worst one. I was the most violent.

247
00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,920
Speaker 2: I was a forty player. I always played rugby. I

248
00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,240
Speaker 2: was always never shy of a fight. I you know,

249
00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,440
Speaker 2: worked in the meat industry for ages, you know, which

250
00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,200
Speaker 2: is quite a masculine sort of environment, and I am

251
00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,400
Speaker 2: quite a masculine sort of guy. But it was also

252
00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,839
Speaker 2: just am attracted to two men. So yeah, it was.

253
00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:23,640
Speaker 2: It was such a funny coming out. And I remember

254
00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,520
Speaker 2: my twenty first turned into all of but four people

255
00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:29,760
Speaker 2: was one of my my big sister, my older sister,

256
00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,000
Speaker 2: my two parents, and my partner at the time, and

257
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:33,760
Speaker 2: that was my whole twenty first at year. I went

258
00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:35,319
Speaker 2: from being a party to.

259
00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,199
Speaker 1: Four people because you'd come out, yeah, to confronting.

260
00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I just for a lot of people.

261
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:42,679
Speaker 1: Oh mane, that's sad.

262
00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know what you mean. It was ended up

263
00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,040
Speaker 2: just actually, to be honest, it was a really nice

264
00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,000
Speaker 2: twenty first, I ended up just having dinner with my

265
00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,600
Speaker 2: folks and my big sister and it was but you

266
00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,520
Speaker 2: know it was it was really sad at the time.

267
00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,679
Speaker 2: It was really sad. And I had I had people

268
00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,040
Speaker 2: message me and you know, be like that, don't talk

269
00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:02,760
Speaker 2: to me, and I don't want to know you. And

270
00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,360
Speaker 2: I had cousins message me and say, don't come to

271
00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:06,319
Speaker 2: family Christmas.

272
00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,920
Speaker 1: See I just I know feelings like that can run

273
00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,440
Speaker 1: strong with certain people, but I didn't think it would

274
00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,160
Speaker 1: get to that stage, not this day and age. But

275
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,559
Speaker 1: you had people just overtly coming stay away from me.

276
00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, stay away from me. I had cousins say, don't

277
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,480
Speaker 2: come to family Christmas. You know, I'm from a Mildi family,

278
00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,640
Speaker 2: an Indigenousaily we have big Christmas is like forty people plus,

279
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,120
Speaker 2: and they'd be like, They're like, don't come to family Christmas.

280
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:33,800
Speaker 2: I don't want to eat my lunch next to a faggot.

281
00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:36,440
Speaker 1: I didn't think it would be that strong, But that

282
00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,719
Speaker 1: might be just me being naive, like it.

283
00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,040
Speaker 2: Yeah me, and like, yeah, it could be all the

284
00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,600
Speaker 2: years in Sydney because Sydney is quite gay. Yeah, pretty

285
00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:46,040
Speaker 2: used to it. And when I talk to people over

286
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:47,640
Speaker 2: here in Sydney and stuff like that. You guys have

287
00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:49,760
Speaker 2: had a gay scene. You've had Marty Grus since the age.

288
00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that makes sense. That makes sense.

289
00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,000
Speaker 2: Like I was in christ Juche, Christich when I was

290
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:56,720
Speaker 2: When I lived in christ Uch they didn't have a

291
00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:58,839
Speaker 2: Pride march. The only pride march they had was a

292
00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,280
Speaker 2: white Pride march. There was, Yeah, they had a white

293
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:02,480
Speaker 2: Pride march, but not a gay pride.

294
00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:03,960
Speaker 1: Mane in the air, isn't it. Yeah.

295
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that just speaks volumes on the sort of

296
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:07,600
Speaker 2: city I was living it at the time. And that's

297
00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:09,720
Speaker 2: New Zealand. If you want to know what New Zealand's like,

298
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,160
Speaker 2: it's it's an amazing country. Like I love my country,

299
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,360
Speaker 2: I love my people, I love it. But if you

300
00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,200
Speaker 2: want to know what rural New Zealand's like, it's like

301
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,800
Speaker 2: just think about Australia in the seventies or eighties. Yeah,

302
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:20,160
Speaker 2: it's just still the same culture.

303
00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,400
Speaker 1: That makes sense. How did it make you feel the

304
00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:23,960
Speaker 1: fact that you came out. Was that a big weight

305
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:24,760
Speaker 1: off your show? Yeah?

306
00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:25,280
Speaker 2: It was great.

307
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:26,280
Speaker 1: It was so great.

308
00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,160
Speaker 2: It was it was it was the initial initially, it

309
00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,800
Speaker 2: was the first key to my release. I was I

310
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:37,079
Speaker 2: was stoked. I almost immediately, you know, within the next

311
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,760
Speaker 2: couple of months, I stopped doing drugs, and I stopped

312
00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:41,960
Speaker 2: doing drugs. I stopped hanging out of those and I

313
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,440
Speaker 2: wanted to stop, especially after getting run over and all

314
00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,400
Speaker 2: the rest of everything else that happened. I've been homeless

315
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:47,760
Speaker 2: and everything making kills.

316
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:49,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's what my mom fucking said.

317
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:51,160
Speaker 2: That's exactly what you said.

318
00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So it seems to me what you're saying

319
00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,280
Speaker 1: here is that this whole burden that you've been carrying

320
00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,720
Speaker 1: about hiding your sexuality has been lifted. Yeah, life's looking

321
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,160
Speaker 1: a little bit brighter. It's not all doom and gloom anymore.

322
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,960
Speaker 1: You're not living living the lie. What are these drugs for?

323
00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:06,679
Speaker 1: I don't need them.

324
00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:08,960
Speaker 2: I don't need them. Yeah. I like my reality. Now

325
00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,319
Speaker 2: that's great, and it's an exciting thing. Now I've got

326
00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,280
Speaker 2: this thing I can build, which is my life. I've

327
00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,640
Speaker 2: got this life I get to build. I get to

328
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,560
Speaker 2: actually be in the same value line as what I

329
00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:20,400
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, I can live that same life.

330
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,079
Speaker 2: I don't have to worry about what's the worst thing

331
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:23,360
Speaker 2: that people are going to say? All the things that

332
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,160
Speaker 2: ever held me back was in the back of my mind.

333
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,200
Speaker 2: I could always hear people saying fuck you gay or something.

334
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:30,280
Speaker 2: And to be honestly, you have the funny thing about

335
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:32,320
Speaker 2: that is it's like, yeah, I am. It's not even

336
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,160
Speaker 2: that takes a sting out of it, takes this thing

337
00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:35,640
Speaker 2: out of it. It's like, funny you should say that,

338
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:37,520
Speaker 2: like what are you gay or something? It's likely funny

339
00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,240
Speaker 2: you say that I am gay. So yeah, it was.

340
00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,400
Speaker 2: It was a huge weight and and it was this

341
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,520
Speaker 2: exciting opportunity for me to be like, right, what I

342
00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:46,040
Speaker 2: want to do was the life I wanted to live.

343
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,000
Speaker 2: I used to have all these fantasies as a young

344
00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,839
Speaker 2: boy going or young boy but the young man going,

345
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:52,880
Speaker 2: I'm going to run away to San Francisco or I'm going.

346
00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:54,839
Speaker 1: To go somewhere, be true to myself and live my life.

347
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,240
Speaker 2: I live my life, you know, and escape this this

348
00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,920
Speaker 2: this you know situation I'm in. And then now I'm like,

349
00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:03,600
Speaker 2: I can actually do that, I can actually do what

350
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,680
Speaker 2: I want to do. I can start building building steps

351
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,320
Speaker 2: towards the life that I want to live and start

352
00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,240
Speaker 2: creating my life and not be afraid I wasn't afraid anymore,

353
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,560
Speaker 2: Like the scary part had been done.

354
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,280
Speaker 1: That's an interesting way to put it. You're not afraid anymore.

355
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,680
Speaker 1: That's horrible going through life if you're afraid that term

356
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,080
Speaker 1: like I was afraid. Yeah, just being yourself in life.

357
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,080
Speaker 2: Every day, just afraid of my own existence. You're afraid

358
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:27,960
Speaker 2: of afraid of the reality of my own existence. And

359
00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,520
Speaker 2: so yeah, after coming out, it was pretty pretty quickly.

360
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,760
Speaker 2: I just stopped doing drugs. My partner didn't do drugs

361
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,440
Speaker 2: and he didn't want he didn't want any drugs. I

362
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:36,840
Speaker 2: still drank, but there was a kid, and I just

363
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:38,840
Speaker 2: worked really hard. I got an apprenticeship at a really

364
00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,800
Speaker 2: good butcher shop and it was one of the best

365
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,600
Speaker 2: in the country, and I really wanted to actually get qualified.

366
00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,880
Speaker 2: I never got you have a trade. So I knuckled

367
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,760
Speaker 2: down and for the next three years I just worked

368
00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,400
Speaker 2: really hard. I did big days, you know, I do

369
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,400
Speaker 2: seventy five hundred hour weeks in the shop. And my

370
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,800
Speaker 2: apprenticeship a I did the butchery competitions in New Zealand.

371
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,800
Speaker 2: I got dirt equal in New Zealand as a butcher,

372
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,640
Speaker 2: and you know, I really loved it. I really loved it.

373
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,360
Speaker 1: It became a whole world. Life was going well, really good.

374
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,440
Speaker 2: But you know, from going from twenty years old and

375
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,480
Speaker 2: being run over by a car and being gang affiliated

376
00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,000
Speaker 2: and a drug addict to being twenty three and being

377
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,480
Speaker 2: out of the closet, gay man, fully qualified, butcher, and

378
00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,880
Speaker 2: I'd saved enough money to get pre proof for a

379
00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:25,360
Speaker 2: home loan.

380
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, full full credit to you. Yeah well, And

381
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,600
Speaker 1: I'd like to end the podcast here, but I'd love

382
00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,760
Speaker 1: that when we and you lived happily ever after that

383
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,920
Speaker 1: it's a beautiful story and what a great way to

384
00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,760
Speaker 1: finish high catch killers. But sadly we don't finish that

385
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:44,440
Speaker 1: way certainly. Let's know how the song love hurts? Yeah, exactly,

386
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,720
Speaker 1: tell us, okay, say the perfect life it was.

387
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:49,680
Speaker 2: It was that white picket fence. And I really thought

388
00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,120
Speaker 2: that at the time, was like I've done it. I've

389
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,240
Speaker 2: built that white picket fence. I've gone from you know, sixteen,

390
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,640
Speaker 2: having nobody to live and been terrified and then all

391
00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:58,240
Speaker 2: the rest of it, and then getting to twenty three,

392
00:15:58,360 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 2: and I remember getting pre proof for a home loan

393
00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,080
Speaker 2: and just going like, wow, I'm going to buy a house.

394
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:04,440
Speaker 2: You know, this house is going to set me up.

395
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,440
Speaker 2: By the time I'm thirty, I might have a couple

396
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,920
Speaker 2: more under my belt and maybe a butcher shop. And

397
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,120
Speaker 2: who knows, life is looking good, really good, you know,

398
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,240
Speaker 2: being twenty three and looking to buy buy your first time,

399
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,080
Speaker 2: it's pretty good. And may do where you live. My

400
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,760
Speaker 2: partner at the time, it was my fiancee at the time. Actually,

401
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,000
Speaker 2: at that point I proposed. I'd asked, as I remember

402
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,200
Speaker 2: messaging his old man it's Big Mauldi Feller in South

403
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,160
Speaker 2: Auckland game. Hey bro, I'd love to, you know, to

404
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:28,880
Speaker 2: marry your sons that are good of you. And he

405
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:33,880
Speaker 2: gave me his blessing, and so I proposed, and well,

406
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,160
Speaker 2: one of my cars has been repossessed. I did have

407
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,320
Speaker 2: fiction notice on on on my house. My phone was

408
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,360
Speaker 2: cut off, my internet was cut off, and my power

409
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,960
Speaker 2: was cut off. And I was like, what the fuck's

410
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,800
Speaker 2: going on here? And he goes, I'm really sorry, but

411
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,920
Speaker 2: I lost my job a few months ago and I

412
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,880
Speaker 2: didn't want to tell you, and you're working so hard

413
00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,000
Speaker 2: and and we've got nothing. And I was like, what

414
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:57,920
Speaker 2: do you mean we've got nothing? I've got fifteen thousand

415
00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,680
Speaker 2: dollars in a bank account. And he's like, we've got nothing,

416
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,919
Speaker 2: and I was like what. And then I panicked and

417
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:07,520
Speaker 2: I went and got a second job. I was just

418
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,280
Speaker 2: how much and I was in love with this guy.

419
00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,399
Speaker 2: I went and got a second job to try and

420
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:11,840
Speaker 2: work my.

421
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:12,520
Speaker 1: Way out of the debt.

422
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,479
Speaker 2: I was so attached to this dream of having this

423
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,080
Speaker 2: life that I'd built, and I didn't want it to

424
00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:19,960
Speaker 2: be a failure because of thinking in the back of

425
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,280
Speaker 2: my head, I was just picturing all those guys I

426
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:23,800
Speaker 2: used to kick it with, who you know, I had

427
00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:25,879
Speaker 2: to come out of the closet too, and stuff like that,

428
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,520
Speaker 2: them just seeing my failure, and I was like, no,

429
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,320
Speaker 2: I don't want him to know that I failed. I

430
00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:31,680
Speaker 2: want my life to get success.

431
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:32,480
Speaker 1: That makes sense.

432
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,240
Speaker 2: I looked like I was twenty three, and I looked

433
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,639
Speaker 2: like I was fifty. I looks so bad and getting

434
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,600
Speaker 2: more and more depressed and mentally ill because of all

435
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,280
Speaker 2: because of the stress and anxiety and stuff like that.

436
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,239
Speaker 2: And then I moved all this stuff out, moved all

437
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,240
Speaker 2: of my stuff into my dad's garage. I didn't want

438
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:50,600
Speaker 2: to go in my mom and dad's garage. I didn't

439
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:51,840
Speaker 2: want to go and stay with my mom and dad

440
00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,000
Speaker 2: because my dad's really homophobic. I to joke about it,

441
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,040
Speaker 2: but like, I don't. I honestly don't know why he

442
00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,600
Speaker 2: was so homophobic, but yeah, and so I didn't want

443
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:01,439
Speaker 2: to just followed my pride. And I was living in

444
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:05,520
Speaker 2: this car. So there's five thousand dollars drug dealer Beima

445
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 2: that I owned when I first when we first got

446
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,960
Speaker 2: to give her, and I'm living in this car. I

447
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 2: had to move the car every night. I had to

448
00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,840
Speaker 2: move the car every night, and it was minus twelve

449
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,639
Speaker 2: at night. It was fucking freezing and christy. I remember

450
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,520
Speaker 2: I used to used to line my car. I try

451
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,480
Speaker 2: to sleep at the park in my car, and I

452
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,480
Speaker 2: used to have bruised ribs because I'd be convulsing in

453
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,440
Speaker 2: the cold. It was mine as twelve, I'm dying. I'm

454
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,480
Speaker 2: just convulsing in the cold, just shivering and just feeling sick.

455
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,560
Speaker 2: It was probably the most I'd never experienced sorrow like

456
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:36,639
Speaker 2: that before in my life.

457
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,360
Speaker 1: It was a case you had no one in your

458
00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,080
Speaker 1: life you could reach out to, or you were too

459
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:44,000
Speaker 1: ashamed to reach out.

460
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,280
Speaker 2: I think too ashamed. I definitely had people I could

461
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:47,720
Speaker 2: talk to. My mom was trying to help as b

462
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,760
Speaker 2: she could but I was so emotionally unstable. Yeah, it was.

463
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,200
Speaker 2: It was. It was quite surreal. I'd not only lost

464
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,159
Speaker 2: my best friend in my partner, who I loved of

465
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:57,480
Speaker 2: all my aunt you know, I loved this man so

466
00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 2: much I wouldn't got a sicking job for him. But

467
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:04,120
Speaker 2: I'd lost everything. I was financially, emotionally and spiritually destitute.

468
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,840
Speaker 1: Okay, it makes sense. So you've lost the love of

469
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 1: your life. Then the betrayal adds to it. Yeah, you've

470
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,199
Speaker 1: lost the finances and your pretty little life with the

471
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,439
Speaker 1: white picket fence that you had set up and had

472
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,719
Speaker 1: dreamed about and finally was in reach. Yeah, it has

473
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:20,880
Speaker 1: just been blown away.

474
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,560
Speaker 2: Blown away. The whole thing was a lie, and I

475
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:24,920
Speaker 2: was getting phone calls ten times a day from different

476
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,280
Speaker 2: deck collectors. Heyomi money for this Hayomi money, for this

477
00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,399
Speaker 2: hoo money. The bill was about thirty two thousand dollars

478
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 2: I ended up owing, which is it's a huge loss

479
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:34,800
Speaker 2: of money. It's a lot of money for a twenty

480
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:36,760
Speaker 2: three year old kid. It's a lot of money. It's

481
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,479
Speaker 2: really scary, especially when you're only making seventeen dollars an

482
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,840
Speaker 2: hour and that was my wage. Dirty two grand was heaps,

483
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,320
Speaker 2: and I just thought I'm gone, Well, my hard work

484
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:45,760
Speaker 2: was over.

485
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:46,960
Speaker 1: I was so angry.

486
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 2: And it wasn't long after that I bumped into one

487
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,159
Speaker 2: of my old cronies who used to kick it with

488
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,160
Speaker 2: actually the pills I was talking of it before.

489
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,600
Speaker 1: That's lessener war. I mean, this is where it goes sad.

490
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,040
Speaker 2: Against and again. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, I've bumped into it.

491
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:01,720
Speaker 2: It was just it was this weird thing. I've just

492
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 2: been fired from my job. I ended up bashing one

493
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,440
Speaker 2: of the apprentices. I think I was just gotten qualified

494
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,280
Speaker 2: and he was a first year apprentice, was real lippy,

495
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,840
Speaker 2: little shit and he'd ah, he mouthed off to me,

496
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,399
Speaker 2: and I just split it. I just pinned him up

497
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,119
Speaker 2: against the wall. Well, it's funny because all you can

498
00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,159
Speaker 2: actually see on the cameras. I'm not so fast about this,

499
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,359
Speaker 2: but we can see is he's trying to leave the

500
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,680
Speaker 2: building to get away from me, and you can just

501
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,400
Speaker 2: see on the security cameras it's just my arm reach

502
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:28,639
Speaker 2: reach out. It was like a cartoon lift my arm

503
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:30,920
Speaker 2: reach out of the door, and I just grabbed.

504
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,320
Speaker 1: Them and just lifted him off his feet.

505
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,080
Speaker 2: It's a little than me. I lifted him off. I

506
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,879
Speaker 2: was big to about one hundred and twenty kilos, lifted

507
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 2: him off his feet, pulled him back into the room

508
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,119
Speaker 2: and just and yeah, gave him a bit of a hiding.

509
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 2: And I got fired for it. I resigned, had no job.

510
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:47,880
Speaker 2: I was in all this debt. That was the last

511
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 2: thing I needed was to lose my job, you know,

512
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,359
Speaker 2: that was all I had going for me. And I

513
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,159
Speaker 2: bumped into this fellow. I gotten pay out from my

514
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,360
Speaker 2: week they'd paid me out to leave, and I've seeing

515
00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 2: this fellow and I was like fuck. I told him

516
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 2: everything had happened, and he goes, fuck, I just put

517
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:02,520
Speaker 2: up with my misses too, you know, I don't know

518
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 2: what to do. And we were kicking it, and he goes, hey, Roy,

519
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,399
Speaker 2: if you want, I can get these ounces of MDM

520
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,959
Speaker 2: a fix amount of money. And then I did the

521
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 2: maths and I was like, fuck, if I sell that

522
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 2: in one weekend, I'm making five thousand dollars. And that

523
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 2: was it. That was like fucking thumb.

524
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:21,880
Speaker 1: And it's interesting, and I appreciate your openness and honestly,

525
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,359
Speaker 1: but the fact that your life was going in the

526
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,160
Speaker 1: right direction that sat set back. Yeah, all that pain

527
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 1: comes back on you and you revert back to and

528
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 1: to me, it's not the person you want to be,

529
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 1: it's not the person you really are, But you just

530
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 1: find your way in that lay place again, and you're

531
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 1: dealing drugs.

532
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, dealing drugs yeah, and taking them in high quantity too.

533
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 2: And it's funny. I hadn't done drugs in three years,

534
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,199
Speaker 2: and I hadn't done anything like that in three years. Here.

535
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 2: I wasn't a perfect person. I'd been in a few

536
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 2: dust ups then too, especially when I come out of

537
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 2: the closet at work belted a couple of guys because

538
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 2: they tried to fight me for it, and I was

539
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,400
Speaker 2: never really shy that. But I was not a criminal.

540
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,239
Speaker 2: I wasn't hanging out of criminals and didn't hang out

541
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 2: of criminals and a do criminals.

542
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 1: And you felt fatter about yourself when you keep.

543
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, heeps better.

544
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

545
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 2: And I was felt a lot more stable and and

546
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 2: everything was good. I was really quite proud of the

547
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 2: person I was becoming. I still had lots of work

548
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 2: to do, but you know, it's it's a it's a

549
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,440
Speaker 2: it's a process. And and yeah, it wasn't long after

550
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,120
Speaker 2: that I was I was back to using drugs, back

551
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 2: to dealing drugs. But this time around, I was more

552
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 2: determined than ever to be a high profile guy. Like

553
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 2: before then, I was never like profile. It was just

554
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 2: I was.

555
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 1: It was a nobody.

556
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 2: I was a street ruffian, you know. I was not

557
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:37,640
Speaker 2: doing anything special, dime a dozen, sort of crook. And

558
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,199
Speaker 2: and then but this time around, I was like, I

559
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:39,679
Speaker 2: want to be.

560
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 1: I wanted to make a statement. Yeah, I want to

561
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: make a statement. I want to be.

562
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 2: I want to be somebody I want I want I

563
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:47,160
Speaker 2: want to take my power back.

564
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 1: You said when we were chatting the other day that

565
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: you were just angry, just angry and stuff. That's I'm

566
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 1: going to take on the world. Yeah, you do this

567
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 1: to me. I've had so many kicks in the guts.

568
00:22:58,119 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 1: I'm angry now it's payback time.

569
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I tried my best. I tried so hard,

570
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 2: you know, and I really did. I tried so hard.

571
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 2: I tried my best and then it didn't work out.

572
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 2: And all that said to me was that it was

573
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 2: just a sign from the universe that this is not

574
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 2: what you're supposed to be doing and the like, and

575
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 2: I just thought, you know what, fuck could I have

576
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 2: lost it all? I tried my best and it didn't

577
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 2: pan out, so at least I can say I've given

578
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 2: it a nudge. And and now I wanted I want

579
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 2: my power back, I want what was taken from me.

580
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 2: You've taken everything from me, and I want to back.

581
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 2: So yeah, and that was my that was my goal.

582
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 2: And so I just started off just selling, just selling

583
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 2: drugs again. And then very quickly, I think, through determination

584
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 2: and probably just the lack of I was I didn't

585
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 2: really care about any consequences, so I said yes to everything.

586
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,679
Speaker 2: That really quickly developed into into a life that I

587
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,959
Speaker 2: never thought that I would I would be into so fast.

588
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 1: So you got into debt collecting. Yeah, so yeah, when

589
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 1: we say deck collecting, there's a lot of different perceptions

590
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: of what deck collicked is. But you're a virtual standover man,

591
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: and if the money's not forthcoming, there's usually consequences and

592
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 1: it might be a bit of a flogging.

593
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, pretty much. There's a lot different the way

594
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 2: combank operates. But yes, and like I got into that

595
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 2: because I'd almost had a personal vendetta because I'd lost everything.

596
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: Yeah you said that, and I really appreciate your openness. Yeah,

597
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: you wanted to I'm going to approve of a tough guy.

598
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: I'm going to approve this world. But and I just

599
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: had to clarify with you. I didn't want to have

600
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,199
Speaker 1: a psychopath on here. But how it wasn't you. You

601
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: knew it wasn't you. It was just this false bravado

602
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: that you thought, Yeah, I can do this. If I've

603
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: got to belt someone to collect money, I'll do that.

604
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and looked, I've never I don't think i've

605
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 2: ever had a I've never been in a dust up

606
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 2: or I've never been in it and done anything violent

607
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 2: where I haven't left that situation feeling worse and gone

608
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 2: like fuck that, What did I do that for that?

609
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 2: That person's going to go home, They're going to feel

610
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 2: like shit, you know that.

611
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: Yeah?

612
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 2: I always felt bad about it.

613
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 1: Doing the deck collecting thing was.

614
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 2: For me. It was I managed to convince myself like

615
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 2: I was almost on a crusade, you know what I mean.

616
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 2: I was almost felt like I tried to convince myself

617
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 2: I was some sort of vigilante in this sense. And

618
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 2: at first it was about money, but then it became

619
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 2: in the end of it, I started doing jobs that

620
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 2: had nothing to do with money. And people were just

621
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 2: paying me to enforce people just you know, some guy

622
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 2: would just give me two and a half grand and go,

623
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 2: can you go and flog this come for me?

624
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 1: And I would yes, sure, I'd love to. What was

625
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 1: your mindset before you went in and did that? Yeah,

626
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 1: it's all right to say when you're doing the deal

627
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 1: and yeah, I've got that. But when you pull up

628
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 1: and there's a blake and you're thinking, I'm going to

629
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: give him a touch up here because whatever reason, what

630
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 1: was going through your mind, then.

631
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 2: It's funny you actually say that because it's such a

632
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 2: big contrast of sitting down and sit down and have

633
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 2: the meeting with the client, and I would go like,

634
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 2: you know, what's the situation? And then they would tell me,

635
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 2: and then I would go and then I would sort

636
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 2: of asked for more information, like we does this person live?

637
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 2: Who else lives at the house? What can you tell

638
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 2: me about the house? Or I got to go scope

639
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 2: it out. Sometimes i'd give you fuck. I remember there

640
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 2: was one guy gave me no information whatsoever, just a

641
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 2: photograph and that was really it, just a just a

642
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: Facebook profile picture I managed to get and then he goes,

643
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 2: this is where he lives and who else lives at

644
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 2: the house, what's the situation? Who lives on the street.

645
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 2: Is it a gang street? Is he in the gang?

646
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 2: What's the He gave me fly all information, and I

647
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 2: hated it because I had to sit outside this coun's

648
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 2: house for a week to SI scope them out. Yeah,

649
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 2: work it out. And and when you're in that meeting,

650
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 2: it's really easy to be like, yes, sweet, sweet, sweet,

651
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 2: I do that.

652
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: That's easy.

653
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 2: That's easiest. It's so easy to say yes. It talks cheap.

654
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 2: And then when you're sitting outside that house, it's very different.

655
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 2: It's very different, and you just go into work mode.

656
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 2: You just go on the work mode. I just go

657
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 2: into work mode. Don't be wrong. Almost all of it,

658
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 2: I think, if not all of it was drug induced.

659
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, So that's taking a bit of the emotional

660
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: intelligence out of your thought process.

661
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're all your well, all your empathy and sympathy

662
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 2: is gone, so you don't feel any of that. And

663
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 2: then all your you can all your inhibitions are gone,

664
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 2: so you don't have any inhibitions. You just going okay, sweet,

665
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 2: I can you know, you just go into work mound

666
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 2: and just go I'm going to do it. And that's

667
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 2: how you calm yourself down. You make a plan. Like

668
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 2: my mum always said, a dream without a goal is

669
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 2: a goal without a plan is a dream.

670
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: So you may breaking it down.

671
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 2: So you make a plan and you go, Okay, this

672
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 2: is what I'm gonna do. The fellow is going to

673
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 2: come out of the house. You're going to go to

674
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 2: his work truck. I'm going to tap them on the

675
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 2: shoulder and I'm going to have them in the legal

676
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 2: this and then you're going to do this, this and this.

677
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: Yeah okay. And so with the drugs, it helps because

678
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: I know if you if you're going to go into

679
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: a violent situation, you get yourself ready for it. And

680
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 1: I think, okay, well I'm up for this. I'm about

681
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 1: to do this. I know what I'm going to do.

682
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: But you've got to get yourself in the let mind

683
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: mindset yourself. Yes.

684
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 2: So I think I sat outside this guy's one of

685
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 2: this guy's house for three or four nights scoping it

686
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 2: out and getting as routine and stuff like that. And

687
00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 2: then then the day of the morning of I would

688
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 2: have sat outside his house from about two in the

689
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:07,479
Speaker 2: morning onwards, just smoking balls, just smoking bowls and bowls

690
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: of shard.

691
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 1: Because I'm sensing you not the type of blake here

692
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: would take the drugs aside that you'd be going, Yeah,

693
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,959
Speaker 1: that's cool. I'm going to go give this bloke a flogging.

694
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: In the times that we've spent together and talking to you,

695
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: I get the sense that's not you. So with drugs

696
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: here again masking the pain of what you're going to do. Yeah, yeah,

697
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to go and and belt this bloke. I'm

698
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: going to feel like a real shithead, but yeah, I'll

699
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: take drugs and that'll that'll mask it. Yeah.

700
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 2: I think what drugs did more than anything is they

701
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 2: encouraged my I didn't realize until years later after I

702
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 2: did trauma counseling and stuff like that.

703
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: I remember I did this.

704
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: I had to do the bunch of tests, test if

705
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 2: you're a psychopath, test if you this and that, And

706
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 2: I did the bunch of tests and I came back

707
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 2: and I think I'd scored this woman who she'd worked

708
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 2: in criminal psychology for her whole life years thirty years

709
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 2: or something like that, she'd never seen anything. I think

710
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 2: I scored one of the highest was not yeah, it

711
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 2: was scored one of the highest in New Zealand for

712
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 2: disassociation disorder. So what I didn't know until then was

713
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 2: it wasn't necessarily just the drugs that were like numbing me.

714
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 2: But what they were doing is when they were helping

715
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 2: encourage my disassociation disorder, so I could disassociate in the

716
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 2: time with what you were doing. What was doing, so

717
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 2: you don't feel anything. It's like you're in a movie.

718
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 2: It's all make believe. The whole world just goes make

719
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 2: believe and you just sort of just go number the world.

720
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 2: You completely detach from reality and you just go.

721
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: Yep, is that something that flowed on from what happened

722
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: to you when you were a child? Did you break

723
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: that down? And yeah, because I can imagine what you describing.

724
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: There is a way that you can cape with things

725
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: as a child, and then even when you're suppressing your sexuality.

726
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And it worked in every element of that

727
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 2: were like when it first started getting molested, That's what

728
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,479
Speaker 2: I would do. I would disassociate so I wasn't happening.

729
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 2: I wasn't even if I was in the room, it

730
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 2: wasn't real. I could just sort of switch off the

731
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 2: contact with reality and they just didn't feel like any

732
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,479
Speaker 2: of it was real, and that's how I suppressed it.

733
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 2: And you know, when you're five years old and you're

734
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 2: going a guy forcing you to drink his piss, it's

735
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 2: pretty easy to do that sort of stuff. And that's

736
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 2: really what's engineto that zone where you just just disassociate

737
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 2: and you just go, I'm not I'm not in the room,

738
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 2: and then coming out and will being gay. I remember

739
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 2: when I first started, sleeping of guys used to make

740
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 2: me sick, sick to my stomach.

741
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: Do you used to have your interaction with your partner

742
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: and then hate yourself?

743
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 2: I hated myself when I first started. I remember I

744
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 2: used to meet me physically ill and I'd be like,

745
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 2: what have I done? I was so ashamed of myself.

746
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 2: But the end, again, that disassociation, we could make me like,

747
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 2: snap out of it. I hadn't done that. I'm not gay,

748
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 2: I'm not gay, And if somebody would say I was gay,

749
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 2: I'd fucking club you in the head.

750
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: Okay, even lie to yourself.

751
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, my whole life was. My whole life was

752
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: lying to me first, I think in the line everybody

753
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 2: else afterwards?

754
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: How did it? How did it go? When you became

755
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: your second career path in the world of criminals, we're bigger, braver, stronger,

756
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: your second lot. How did that game being the gay,

757
00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: tough guy in that environment.

758
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 2: I think there was an element in the I think

759
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 2: there was a combination of people respected it. I was

760
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 2: pretty reckless and I was pretty hardcun and I would

761
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 2: go into situations, you know, later on in my life

762
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 2: when I was you know, that second time I went

763
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 2: down that criminal path, I was a very different person.

764
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 2: I was very sure of myself. I'd come out, I'd

765
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 2: overcome that bat or. I didn't have that insecurity anymore.

766
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 2: And I didn't give a fuck what people thought. And

767
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 2: I was in it the winner and I was like,

768
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm I'm angry and I'm here to.

769
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: Do it okay. So that might have given a bit

770
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: of respect and that don't fuck with me.

771
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 2: Don't fuck with me, Like yeah, yeah, absolutely, because it

772
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 2: was pretty brazen. Some of the stuff i'd do. I'd

773
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 2: do fucking drug deals and there'd be a there might

774
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 2: be a fucking rebel in the car and I'd do

775
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 2: a drug down. I'd be like, that guy was kind

776
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 2: of cute a he was pretty good looking you rick,

777
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: and he was gay, and the fellow look at me

778
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 2: and like, what the fuck are you talking about? And

779
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 2: that always always said the same thing. They've always like, fuck,

780
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: I forget that you're gay. Yeah, I was pretty brazen.

781
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 2: I didn't I didn't really care about it. I was

782
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 2: and I didn't eide it from anybody. I did. I did.

783
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 2: I'd met up with a fellow to do a force job.

784
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 2: Wasn't even deck collection, I don't think, just an enforcing job.

785
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 2: I had to move this guy out of this house,

786
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 2: setting down and he's just like, oh you need you

787
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 2: ask me good a missus and stuff like that, which

788
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 2: is fifty He's like, I don't know why you'd ask

789
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 2: your dec collector if he's got a wife and kids,

790
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like, what are you're trying

791
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 2: to build a relationship before? But I was like, no, no,

792
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 2: I'm gay, and he just looked at me and he's

793
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 2: just like, I think there was this you see this

794
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 2: look in his eyes of kind of like confusion and

795
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 2: then terror. Yeah, you see a lot of terror in

796
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 2: people's eyes when you're like the hardest guy in the room.

797
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 2: Were one of the most rickless guys in the room

798
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 2: and you're sitting there and you're being a hardcunt, and

799
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 2: and then you also say I'm gay.

800
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: You drop that. Yeah, I can. I can see where people.

801
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 2: This guy's fucking different, you know, like this guy's even

802
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 2: gone through hell and back and that's why he's so

803
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 2: staunch about it. But I think there was this element too.

804
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 2: I don't know if this is true, but I think

805
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 2: this element of this guy's like, damn, this guy might

806
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 2: not just flog me.

807
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: It could be worse. Yeah, yeah, I think that would

808
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: have crossed his mind too. Yeah, couple of people.

809
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I took a lot of I took a lot

810
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 2: of pride and being and being openly gay sort of gangster,

811
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 2: and yeah, I wasn't really brazen about it, but I

812
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 2: never had it from people.

813
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: You didn't.

814
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 2: I didn't hide it from people. And I think it

815
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 2: was you know, part of that was because at that time,

816
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 2: I never planned to join a gang. When I was younger,

817
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 2: I wanted to join a gang and I wanted to

818
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 2: have that inclusion, and I knew that lifestyle was that,

819
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 2: you know, gangs would never even if I was a

820
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 2: real hard gun, I don't think a gang would give

821
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 2: me that I could I could do one hundred earns.

822
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 2: I could do one hundred.

823
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: Jobs for somebody and know they wouldn't patch me.

824
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 2: Everybody in a different different organizations all around the world

825
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 2: that are liked that, you know, I wouldn't expect to

826
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 2: see the Pope with a rainbow aad on, you know

827
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 2: what I mean, It just wouldn't. It's just not their organization.

828
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 2: And I don't care.

829
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: So your your career as a gay gangster, when did

830
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: you decide to change that?

831
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 2: Well, some of the stuff I was doing. I was working,

832
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 2: and it was a combination of things where I was

833
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 2: always I was already really unhappy because of the whole

834
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 2: relationship breakup. I didn't really have any stable place to live.

835
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 2: It's about a year later. I was just sort of

836
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 2: still living out of my car. I would catch if

837
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 2: I drive around. I was just doing drug runs, so

838
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 2: and you know, I would do a few odd jobs

839
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 2: on the side. It was you know, a laboratory, old

840
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,919
Speaker 2: stopping and say hello too, and stuff like that, and

841
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 2: you know a few other things and say, you know

842
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 2: I was doing I was doing a lot of dumb

843
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 2: shit and my life was going nowhere, and and and

844
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 2: I think the whole aura of being this big bad

845
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 2: guy was starting to get over it. He gets boring,

846
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: after all, Like it gets boring. People don't talk about

847
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 2: how boring it is being a criminal. It's the same

848
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 2: rhetoric over and over again. There's no growth. A tough guy,

849
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 2: tough guys. You were you going to say that for

850
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 2: forty years? You want to skip doing the same shift

851
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 2: for forty years. No growth, there's no intellectual discussions. Now

852
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 2: you don't. And and that used to ship me. And

853
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 2: then I was getting really like heavy back into using drugging.

854
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 2: So I was starting to intraveneous drugs. So I was

855
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 2: injecting mdmay and crystal meth and all the rest of it.

856
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 2: And my addiction was getting pretty bad. And I remember

857
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 2: I was working in this and I was in this

858
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 2: gang pad and every night the fucking police trains were

859
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 2: flying around the perimeter of the pad filming everything, and

860
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 2: we're fucking having to talk on whiteboards. You got to

861
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 2: write everything on a whiteboard, sheltz, you mate scribble it

862
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 2: out and then you know, rub it out and then

863
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 2: we have conversations like that, and it was all just

864
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 2: getting a bit crazy. I was like, what am I

865
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 2: doing in my life? I always wanted to be an

866
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 2: actor or something along those lines. I always thought I

867
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 2: wanted to be something like that in the arts, never

868
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 2: had an outlet for it. But now I had no

869
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 2: reason not to pursue it.

870
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: You're not leaving leaving the perfect life.

871
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 2: Nah, exactly, I had nothing. I had nothing to lose,

872
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 2: and I just thought, you know what, I want to

873
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 2: give this a crack before everything sort of tunes to

874
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 2: custard and I went to I watched a comedy special

875
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 2: on Netflix in my cousin's house, sleeping on the couch,

876
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 2: and then I thought, this is great. I want to

877
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,240
Speaker 2: give this a try. And then I ended up signing

878
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 2: up for this open mic in Auckland City just about it.

879
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 2: I remember it was probably about a year after I

880
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 2: watched that special. I had this opportunity to do this

881
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 2: open mic in Auckland and I just thought it was

882
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 2: a shitty dive bar, and I thought, yeah, I'll go

883
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 2: and give this a nudge. I thought, he's going to

884
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 2: be maybe seven, all of seven people, and no one's

885
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,479
Speaker 2: gonna laugh, and I'm probably never gonna do it again,

886
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 2: but I want to give it a nudge. And I

887
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 2: fucking signed up with this open Mic and it was

888
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 2: the biggest comedy club in New Zealand. It was a

889
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 2: two hundred seat theater and they had no idea. I

890
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 2: had no idea about that world. I had knew nothing

891
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 2: about it. So when they said the Classic, I was like, oh, yeah,

892
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,399
Speaker 2: cool whatever, get there and there's a two hundred seat theater.

893
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: I'm wearing gang colors. I think I just smoked a

894
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 1: massive joint and.

895
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 2: I walked out and I walked I remember I smoked

896
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 2: the massive joint and I walked into the room and

897
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 2: then I realized how big it was and I just

898
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 2: went fucking wide.

899
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: I was like, oh what am I doing it?

900
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 2: Get on stage. The first act was really bad, and

901
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, I can't be that helps. I

902
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 2: can't be any worse than this. Surely it wasn't just bad.

903
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 2: It was really weird and it was just weird. So

904
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 2: I was like, I can't be I'm not going to

905
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 2: be that guy. And I got on stage and I

906
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 2: did pretty well and they go, mate, that was pretty good.

907
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 2: Do you want to come back at the end of

908
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: the month. And I always said that before I went

909
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 2: into I said, if they asked me back, then I'll

910
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 2: come back then it's meant to beat. So I go

911
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 2: back at the end of the month. I did another

912
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 2: five minutes, Holy five minutes, and they're like, yeah, that

913
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 2: was really good again. And uh, there's a really big

914
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 2: comedian in the room. He's on Best Male Comedian in

915
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 2: Hes Zealand. Me ten times on Sendy on TV when

916
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 2: I was a kid. I really loved his work. And

917
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 2: he goes, boy, come over here, and I was like,

918
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 2: I was like yeah. He's like, he's like, how many

919
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 2: times you've been on stage? I said that was my

920
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: second time. He goes, fuck, that was great. And the

921
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 2: crew at the comedy club said to me, the god

922
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 2: you know, there's a there's a competition actually you can

923
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 2: sign up for for the best new comedian. It's called Raw.

924
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 2: It's the best new comedian in the country. And I

925
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 2: was like, oh cool, I'm all good. Thanks, I'm fine.

926
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 2: You know, I'm fine. I'm still a criminal, you know.

927
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 2: I don't really want to know if I want to

928
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 2: be doing. And they're like, no, no, you signed up

929
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 2: for it. When you signed up. When the first open mic,

930
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 2: your name's in the hat. And I said, oh, yeah, cool.

931
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 2: Whatever happens happens. And now no, we're telling you because

932
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 2: you're you're in the semi final, you're in the top

933
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 2: twenty four in the country.

934
00:37:58,400 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

935
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 2: And I was like what and they're like, yeah, you

936
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 2: come back. At the end of the month, I did

937
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 2: the Simis, I got into top ten in the country.

938
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 2: And then like eight months later, I remember I was

939
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 2: doing the Grand Finals and I was getting nominated for

940
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 2: the Best New Comedian in New Zealand. I got nominated

941
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: out of four people in the country, got nominated for

942
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: this award. And when I started doing comedy, I fucking

943
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 2: loved it. Loved it, man, I loved it so much.

944
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: And did you know you had a talent for it?

945
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: Did you, like you said you wanted to do something creative,

946
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: something in the arts. Did you know you had a

947
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: talent for a stand up?

948
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 2: Never thought of that stand up? Never once, never thought

949
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 2: that it could ever tickle what I was scratched the ytch.

950
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 2: I never thought comedy would be I thought I'd do

951
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 2: acting or maybe music. I thought something like, I'd never

952
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,280
Speaker 2: consider comedy. I don't know why. I'd never never crossed

953
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 2: my mind. I'd never been a comedy close before that,

954
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 2: I'd never watched live stand.

955
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: Up, but I reckon it would have to be one

956
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 1: of the hardest gigs because it can even be really

957
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: good or it can be really bad. It can be

958
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: complete silence, or it can be people killing over and

959
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: dying with laughter.

960
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 2: Yes, it is exactly. That's so it's so hard. It's

961
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 2: not like a song. Like if you can play the

962
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:02,879
Speaker 2: guitar and I give you a.

963
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 1: List of kit, you you've got something to present.

964
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can play those notes and it's going to

965
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 2: make that noise and there's a song. But with stand

966
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 2: up it's not like that at all. It's it's so

967
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 2: difficult and it's such a ceiling less sort of venture,

968
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 2: if you know what I mean. So like for that

969
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 2: for me, I love I love that. I love that.

970
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 2: I don't even want to reach the top or those

971
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 2: we're going to get bored.

972
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: Do you think the risk associated with it too rocks

973
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: your boat in a way with all the lifestyle that

974
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: you've had, the fact that getting up on stage you're

975
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: really putting yourself out there each time.

976
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 2: I don't know, I love it, I love it, I

977
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 2: don't and I find it so exciting I think looking back,

978
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 2: you know, when I talk to classmates to do that

979
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 2: I've got people who were in high school with me.

980
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 2: I was a class clown. So when I got up there,

981
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 2: it was really natural. And I remember there was this

982
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 2: I got on stage and then I just come alive

983
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 2: from day dot. I just come alive, and there was

984
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 2: a person in there that that was who, that was

985
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 2: the real meat. And I didn't realize until getting on

986
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 2: state that's what I had to do for the real

987
00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 2: Alliot to come out. I had to get on st

988
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 2: agent talking to a microphone and entertained a bunch of people,

989
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, he comes out, and

990
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,919
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, well that's me. That's

991
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 2: the real me. He lives on that stage.

992
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: Okay. It's interesting because I see you come alive when

993
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: you're talking about it. Clearly you enjoy what you're doing there,

994
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 1: and I wonder if that's just the culmination of all

995
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: that suppressed shit that you've packed away all your whole life,

996
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: and now on stage, I can be me. I'm not

997
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 1: hiding from anyone.

998
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not hiding. I can be exactly who I am.

999
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 2: And I think it was the surprise of that person

1000
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 2: coming out. I didn't know that was going to happen.

1001
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 2: I didn't thought. I didn't plan for any of that.

1002
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 2: I just got up there and I just started going

1003
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 2: and then I just was like, Oh, that's me, That's

1004
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 2: who I am. Right there. He just came out and

1005
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 2: it surprised me, and I was like, it was such

1006
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 2: a beautiful girl.

1007
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 1: And did that getting the high that you got from that?

1008
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: Did that push aside you need for drugs, you need

1009
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 1: for being the gay gangster?

1010
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 2: And yeah, all of that whin all of that actually

1011
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 2: just became funny jokes because I just looked. I started

1012
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 2: looking at everything differently, and I was like, that's fucking ridiculous.

1013
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 2: It's like, what are you doing walking around? You know,

1014
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 2: what are you out to? And so I just started

1015
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:05,879
Speaker 2: making jokes about it, you know, and they started making

1016
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 2: jokes about how I went from OG to LGBT and

1017
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 2: like that, and people loved it. They thought it was

1018
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 2: funny and they thought it was so funny. And then

1019
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 2: I just started finding the beauty and everything after doing comedy,

1020
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 2: I started finding the beauty and everything and the funny

1021
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: and everything. It's funny and everything. And I think because

1022
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 2: I had so much suffering and so much loss and

1023
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 2: so many bad hands dealt to me. I just mean,

1024
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 2: you're ever gonna laugh or cry about it. I remember

1025
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 2: saying like, this is a joke. This is a joke

1026
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:33,919
Speaker 2: out there everything I've been through, this is a joke.

1027
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 2: And then I started saying it so many times. I

1028
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 2: changed the tone of my voice and going this is

1029
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 2: a joke. I was like, this is a joke. This

1030
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 2: is actually a funny. You know, this is funny.

1031
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: It's interesting how you look at setbacks in life, isn't it.

1032
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: It's the way you can you can deal with it.

1033
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 1: You can hang on to that anger and just have

1034
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: the shits about it and hate the world. Yeah, or

1035
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,399
Speaker 1: just laugh at yourself and go, oh who would have thought?

1036
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 2: Yeah? And then and then and laughing at yourself. And

1037
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: so that was another thing I said. I started learning

1038
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 2: how to take accountabilit for my behavior. It was going like,

1039
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 2: you're a dick, mate, Like everything you're doing is bad.

1040
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 2: You're creating your own shitty environment in your life because

1041
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 2: you're bitter and you're twisted and you didn't like what

1042
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:10,879
Speaker 2: happened to you fucking.

1043
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: Tough titties, So you had to own that.

1044
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's the only way to get out of that.

1045
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 2: That's the only way to get out of this, the

1046
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 2: only way to get out of addiction. It's the only

1047
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 2: way to get out of not the only way to

1048
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 2: get out of addiction, but it's one of the key

1049
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 2: elements to get out of any of their lifestyle. Whether

1050
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 2: you're being a criminal or a drug addict or whatever

1051
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 2: it is that you're doing. If you're being a bad person,

1052
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 2: that's you.

1053
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: Stop blaming the world.

1054
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 2: Stop blaming the world. It's all you, mate, that's what

1055
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 2: you're doing. You know, you know you're in so much.

1056
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 2: You've got so many things that you can control in

1057
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 2: your life. Focus on them and control them, you know,

1058
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 2: control what you can can control. And stop trying to

1059
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,879
Speaker 2: say that it's out of my hands. What just because

1060
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 2: somebody did something bad, so now that it gives you

1061
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 2: the opportunity to do something bad to someone else.

1062
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: That's just stupid.

1063
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 2: And it's easy for people to think to get into

1064
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 2: this mindset of like being a victim and gain I'm

1065
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: a victim here and I'm a victim and that's why

1066
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 2: I'm doing this, And it's just like, no, they have

1067
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 2: a little bit of money, have a little bit of

1068
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,280
Speaker 2: a self control, and have a little bit of accountability

1069
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 2: because now you're a deck I think.

1070
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, the life lesson that you're giving to people there

1071
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: is just so important because time and time again, even

1072
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: things where people are victims of situations that it wasn't

1073
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 1: there recklessness or anything that caused it. But yeah, do

1074
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: you hate? Do you just keep why me, oh meom

1075
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: destroying your life or you turn it into something something positive?

1076
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 1: I think, And that's what fascinated me about about you

1077
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: when I was doing the prep for it and the

1078
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: people that recommended you that. As I said at the start,

1079
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: most people we have here have turned their life around

1080
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 1: because they've been caught and they think, hey, this is

1081
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: not cool. I'm mocked in the sale eighteen hours a day.

1082
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 1: Oh duh. But you're just decided, through life's choices to

1083
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: turn your life around. Yeah. No.

1084
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 2: And that was a combination of always being not a

1085
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 2: really combination of anything, but it was, you know, a

1086
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 2: combination of always being miserable. What was always missing? Always

1087
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 2: I was always unhappy, I was always miserable. And it

1088
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 2: turns out I was the one making making all of

1089
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 2: those choices. No one was forcing me to do any

1090
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 2: of that, and all of the stuff that happened, happened anyway,

1091
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 2: Like they called me a faggot anyway, regardless of what

1092
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 2: I've done, regardless of how tough I was, regardless of

1093
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 2: all the bad things I've done, all the people that

1094
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 2: I hurt and all the people that I disappointed in

1095
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 2: my life, I'm still going to get called a fagot.

1096
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 2: So like, yeah, and just always being miserable, Like I

1097
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 2: was always unhappy, I was always broke, I was always

1098
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 2: strong up. I mean, every fucking Christmas, I'd never have

1099
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 2: money to give presents to anybody. Felt horrible about it.

1100
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 2: But I always had drugs, and I remember, going next

1101
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 2: year is going to be different. Fuck, you do that

1102
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 2: ten times and a decade slipped through your fingers, and

1103
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, I'm looking in the mirror and

1104
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 2: I'm twenty seven and I'm gone, Fuck, I've been using

1105
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 2: drugs and alcohol for the last fifteen years and I'm

1106
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 2: twenty seven.

1107
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: Can slip by? I can't it slips by?

1108
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 2: Mate? You know? Like that's the thing. Yeah, I had

1109
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:01,399
Speaker 2: a fifteen year addiction at twenty seven. That's not that's

1110
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 2: not that. Those are not good statistics.

1111
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: No, definitely not. What's we haven't got you to Australia.

1112
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:09,240
Speaker 1: Why are you coming to Australia.

1113
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 2: Why? Why to take back the pavlover that's books, to

1114
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 2: take back all our sports players. Now, I came to

1115
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 2: Australia for an opportunity. I got to the point in

1116
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 2: in in my life. Look, even when I first started comedy,

1117
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 2: I'd love to tell you it was it was open

1118
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 2: and shut case where I just started in comedy and

1119
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 2: my whole life changed that to day. But we all

1120
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 2: know that's just not how reality is. This just not

1121
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 2: how life works. It takes years. So when I first

1122
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 2: started doing comedy, also started going through trauma, counseling and

1123
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 2: stuff like that, and it started to develop myself as

1124
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 2: a person because I was still a very angry person.

1125
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:48,399
Speaker 2: When I first started doing stand up, I was still

1126
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 2: dealing drugs, I was still doing There was still a

1127
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 2: lot of bad things going on in my life and

1128
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 2: I was still just slowly fixing things bit by bit.

1129
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 2: And I was in a relationship at the time a

1130
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 2: different person. This person to death. He's my best mate.

1131
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 2: Aastually love them to bits. But I ruined that relationship

1132
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 2: because I wasn't ready for it. I was still very

1133
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,760
Speaker 2: hurt person. And I still had a lot of stuff

1134
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 2: to work through. And yeah, I stopped doing ice, but

1135
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 2: I was still a heavy drinker. I'm talking fifteen beers

1136
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 2: on a Monday heavy drinking. Yeah. And it was really

1137
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 2: that exploded because of comedy. My head exploded, my ego

1138
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 2: exploded because I was immediate success.

1139
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: That's that's interesting too.

1140
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 2: That's something that I and I talk to a lot

1141
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 2: of people about it where I'd like, see, you know,

1142
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 2: comics getting good gigs early on, and I just don't

1143
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,959
Speaker 2: let it get to your head because it's a long road.

1144
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 2: It's a long road to good top, long road to

1145
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 2: the top. I started drinking really heavily at the start

1146
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 2: to replace the ice, smoking a lot of weed and

1147
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 2: drinking a lot, and I just became a massive alcoholic.

1148
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 2: And through their alcoholism, I ruined my relationship. I lost

1149
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 2: my fucking job again, I lost my I lost everything again.

1150
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 2: I ended up living in a car again.

1151
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: I love these cars.

1152
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,720
Speaker 2: I love these cars. Yeah, I know, I love these cars.

1153
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 2: I'm I couldn't believe I was back back to this situation.

1154
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 2: I was fucking spewing myself and like and I just

1155
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 2: remember thinking in my head, like just you just got

1156
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 2: to do what you love, you know what it means,

1157
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 2: Stop trying to pander around this situation like this is

1158
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 2: this path? As were you goot to go? It was

1159
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 2: funny with comedies the only thing in my life really,

1160
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 2: and I hate to say this because I fucking let

1161
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 2: some people down who really didn't deserve it, and you know,

1162
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,439
Speaker 2: like my last partner and stuff like that, my mom

1163
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 2: and my dad. I've disappointed a lot of people because

1164
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 2: of my behavior. And I would love to sit here

1165
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 2: and tell you that those people with the drive was

1166
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,399
Speaker 2: the main driving force for me to sort my shit out,

1167
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 2: and they were in a big part. But it was

1168
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 2: also comedy and a big part. It was never just

1169
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 2: one of those things. And when comedy got introduced into

1170
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 2: my life and my behavior started to affect my stand

1171
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 2: up fucking straight away, I cut it out of my

1172
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 2: life straight away. Nothing and nothing in my mind could

1173
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 2: even jeopardize stand up comedy for me. There was not

1174
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 2: a single high worth it. This is and I remember

1175
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 2: started doing comedy, I was like, this is better than meth. Yeah,

1176
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 2: this is great, you know, and I didn't want anything

1177
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 2: to geopardize it. Yeah, natural high. It was amazing and

1178
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 2: just the amount of release and and and fulfillment that

1179
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,760
Speaker 2: I got I got from doing stand up was so huge.

1180
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 2: It was so fulfilling because everything I ever wanted out

1181
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:19,399
Speaker 2: of life. I was like, I'm five founder. I found

1182
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 2: my thing and see anything that jeopardized that, I instantly

1183
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 2: cut it out of my life. And so you know,

1184
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 2: my alcohol was terrible and stuff like that, and I

1185
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 2: just go and remember I started to pick my comedy.

1186
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 2: I just quit open had a drink nearly two years.

1187
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 1: And you feel good for it? Yeah, I love it.

1188
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 2: Yeah it's been great.

1189
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it.

1190
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:34,919
Speaker 2: But see you now, I was living in a car,

1191
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:36,879
Speaker 2: had had fuck all going on again.

1192
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 1: I was they got these things called camp events.

1193
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 2: Yeah you should, that's just you know, it's so funny.

1194
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 2: I remember getting more involved into into mainstream media and

1195
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:48,879
Speaker 2: what people get up to on Instagram and the stuff

1196
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 2: like that. I've known the TV in years and and

1197
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 2: and open up Instagram. I'm making Instagram and stuff like that,

1198
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 2: and and and check it out. And I see all

1199
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 2: these parking, all these white girls and Byron Bay driving

1200
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 2: around going fan life, fan life, and I was like,

1201
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 2: fuck you, lady, aunt. That was my reality, like until

1202
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 2: my van life to me like I used to live

1203
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:06,919
Speaker 2: in a car. I mean holmost three times in my life,

1204
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 2: Like I do hear you?

1205
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 1: So when you came to Australia, did you have it?

1206
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:14,800
Speaker 1: Have a plan? Nothing?

1207
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 2: No plan?

1208
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: So that's cutsy in itself.

1209
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 2: Yes, essentially just I quit drinking on the first of July. Yeah,

1210
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,959
Speaker 2: and then sixteen days later I was on a plane

1211
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 2: to Sydney. I had a sister, my big sister, older sister.

1212
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 2: She lived here and I slept in his spare room

1213
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 2: for a month or so. She lived about four doors

1214
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 2: down from a butcher shop. I walked in and I said,

1215
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 2: did they follow? I said, on and try some of

1216
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 2: your sausages of a butcher and he goes, fuck that.

1217
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 2: You just want a job, I was like. I was like, yes, sweet.

1218
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 2: So I got a job in about two days. Then

1219
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 2: he got my found my own apartment, and then he

1220
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 2: just started doing it. And I really started doing standing

1221
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 2: up a lot in Sydney probably about a year and

1222
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 2: a half a year ago, and it's been such a whirlwind.

1223
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 1: If people want to catch your act or follow you,

1224
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: where can they follow you?

1225
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 2: You can follow you an Incia Elliott McLaren on instant

1226
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 2: Graham Look, I'm I suck.

1227
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:07,399
Speaker 1: At social media. I share it with your brother.

1228
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 2: Do you know what? I feel bad saying it to

1229
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,439
Speaker 2: anybody who's who's slightly older than me, because you're only

1230
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 2: slightly older than me.

1231
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: Gary, Yeah, just I think so.

1232
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I struggle with it a lot, but you

1233
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 2: can follow me on Alian McLaren. I'm trying to figure

1234
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 2: it out, man, you know, like I was fucking strung

1235
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 2: out drug addic for years, so trying to figure out

1236
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 2: all this, all the social media stuff. And I hate

1237
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 2: that because I'm twenty nine. Yeah, you know, and I'm

1238
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 2: the only guy I know.

1239
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 1: You should be Yeah, you should be going blah blah,

1240
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 1: I thought you game blah blah blah blah blah. I

1241
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 1: get a right, no idea.

1242
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 2: I've got all of like seven hundred followers. I've got

1243
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: no idea how to do social media. But follow me

1244
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 2: on there because I'm learning how to do it and

1245
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 2: I'm going to be putting up a lot more content.

1246
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 1: And that's you're clearly working very hard, hard on it,

1247
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 1: and it's something that you continually refine.

1248
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a funny thing. When you first start, you

1249
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 2: do type five. If you can get five minutes and

1250
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,359
Speaker 2: material you're stoked. I was thinking about this last night.

1251
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,760
Speaker 2: I remember having to do five minutes at the start

1252
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 2: and being terrified of not having enough content.

1253
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 1: For five five minutes.

1254
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then all of a sudden people say ten

1255
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,479
Speaker 2: minutes and I'm like, fuck, that's not enough time.

1256
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,359
Speaker 1: So that's when you got your life on track. And

1257
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: then you've contracted HIV, which is yeah, there's a lot

1258
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 1: of ignorance about HIV and how you live with it.

1259
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 1: What's your experience?

1260
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 2: Just look it's at the start, I was really quite

1261
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,879
Speaker 2: solemn about the whole situation. I would imagine that it

1262
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 2: was really quite sad, and like you said, Gary, it

1263
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 2: was funny. And now I've come over to Australia, I'm

1264
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 2: doing really well. And then all of a sudden last year,

1265
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 2: towards the end of the year, I remember I got

1266
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 2: really sick. Fuck. First my jaw ballooned up. I had

1267
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 2: this abscess in my tooth and I've ballooned right up.

1268
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 2: I've got some antibiotics and I fixed it. And then

1269
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,320
Speaker 2: after that I got I had this cough for months.

1270
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,400
Speaker 2: I had so much going on. I had to I

1271
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 2: had to, you know, Thursday morning, and I had this

1272
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 2: in fiction and on my ask you. Actually, it just

1273
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 2: started growing and grind over the period of about two weeks. Fuck.

1274
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 2: I just kept carrying on of it, and I thought,

1275
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 2: it's nothing, it's nothing. It's a spider bite. Originally, spider

1276
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 2: bit me in bed, and I didn't think too much

1277
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 2: of it. And I just because it wasn't a deadly spider,

1278
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 2: it wasn't a white so or anything like that. I

1279
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 2: didn't know.

1280
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 1: I'm talking shit, I don't know nothing about spider. I

1281
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 1: didn't realize you whatever.

1282
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I've got no idea, but I'm pretty arrogant

1283
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,280
Speaker 2: and pretty reckless, and I just go, it's probably nothing,

1284
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 2: It'll be all good. I woke up on Sunday morning

1285
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 2: and there's infection. It was like the size of a

1286
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 2: fucking grapefruit now is massive, and my fever had a

1287
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 2: really high fever from the infection. I had a sore throat.

1288
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 2: I was getting sick from all the bacteria in my body.

1289
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 2: And I remember I fainted, got up in the morning

1290
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 2: and go to the toilet and I fucking just dropped,

1291
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 2: and I was like, this is not good. I don't

1292
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:54,320
Speaker 2: feel good. You know, I'm a little bit concerned so

1293
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 2: I booked an uber. I remember I walked in there

1294
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 2: and the ladies I take your trousers off, and I

1295
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 2: was like, oh'm I used to doing this lady and

1296
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:04,799
Speaker 2: she looked at the infection and she goes, holy fuck,

1297
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 2: she dropped in clipboard. She didn't swear, I don't think

1298
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 2: she dropped in clipboard. And then she picked the clipboard

1299
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 2: up and fucking hit me on the shoulder with it.

1300
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 2: And she's like, what are you doing? You're an idiot?

1301
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 2: Like what's wrong with you? And I said why? How

1302
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,319
Speaker 2: bad is it? She's like, you're going to die. She said,

1303
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 2: you're going to die. You're going to die, mate, Like

1304
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 2: you're going to die. You're so lucky you're here right now,

1305
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 2: Like I can't believe you're still standing. They put an

1306
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 2: IV into me straight away. I had about four bags

1307
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:31,359
Speaker 2: of antibiotics in an IV, which is an interesting thing.

1308
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 2: I will say, even now with all mause, I get

1309
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 2: a lot of blood tests and stuff having HIV, and

1310
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:39,359
Speaker 2: I still get I still get flashbacks from it from

1311
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 2: shooting up right right, Yeah, I still get flashbacks. When

1312
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 2: they put their needle in my arm, I'm like, I like, yeah,

1313
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 2: here we go again. I got to go to a

1314
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 2: different place because it's fuck it. It just brings back to

1315
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 2: many memories. And so they put that in my arm

1316
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 2: and then they just did an emergency surgery and they

1317
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 2: just they put me to sleep straight away. They give

1318
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,320
Speaker 2: me generatorsidic put me to sleep and then cut doesn't

1319
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 2: fiction out of my out of my out of my

1320
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 2: butt cheek. And I woke up the next morning and

1321
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 2: I felt was like real groggy. I got a phone

1322
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 2: call and they're like, oh, this is this is the

1323
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 2: Blood's department and I said, oh yeah, sweet yeirs like,

1324
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 2: how is everything you know, because like we got your

1325
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:17,320
Speaker 2: blood test back? And I said, how is everything? Goes? Everything?

1326
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 2: All good?

1327
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 1: Is the in fiction gone? Is?

1328
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 2: You know? White blood cell count? All good? Is everything okay?

1329
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 2: And they're like, oh, mister McLaren, were very sorry, but

1330
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 2: you've you've come back reactive with HIV. And I was like,

1331
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 2: what does that mean. They said, it doesn't mean you've

1332
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 2: definitely got it, but when you did come to Sydney

1333
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 2: Sexual Health in Sydney Hospital for retesting. And so I

1334
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 2: got on the train, I limped into the thing and

1335
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 2: by the time I got there, they'd retested all my

1336
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 2: bloods and they go, look, we're really sorry, mister McLaren,

1337
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 2: but you've got HIV. And I just broken the tears.

1338
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 2: I just started crying. I was so sad. Yeah, I

1339
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:52,479
Speaker 2: was so sad, and again a lot of shame, again,

1340
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 2: a lot of shame. I felt really embarrassed, felt quite dirty,

1341
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 2: you know, it felt quite dirty. There was still you know,

1342
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 2: there's still a lot of stigma about HIV and which

1343
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:01,399
Speaker 2: you're contracting it as a gay man.

1344
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:03,280
Speaker 1: You do feel quite shamed and quite dirty.

1345
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 2: And you know, I think a lot of those comments

1346
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 2: as a young fellow, they came back up when I

1347
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 2: used to you, I used to hear it.

1348
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 1: That's when, Yeah, they were talking about AIDS and the

1349
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 1: Grim Reaper and and.

1350
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,359
Speaker 2: I used to hear people say, fuck them, fagus, they

1351
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 2: deserve to get AIDS and die. What are they doing

1352
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 2: with their lives? You know, fucking sick caunt. So you know,

1353
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 2: when when I got HIV, that really really rattled me,

1354
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 2: and they sort of thoughts of resonating in my head,

1355
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 2: and I was just I was just really sad and

1356
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 2: I'm very grateful Sydney. I think it really needs to

1357
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 2: take it. It's it's head off to itself and really

1358
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,360
Speaker 2: pat itself on the back and Australia in general. But

1359
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:39,280
Speaker 2: because I know it's not like this in New Zealand,

1360
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 2: but Australian general, but really Sydney, I'm so grateful. I

1361
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 2: think it's it's such an amazing thing what you guys

1362
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 2: have done here with the level of care for people

1363
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 2: with HIV. It's it's incredible. Like they sit you down,

1364
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 2: the doctor talks to you. I mean you, I saw

1365
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 2: cry my eyes out for about two or three minutes

1366
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,799
Speaker 2: and then pulled myself together, and then they offer you

1367
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 2: free counseling every We can go to accounset every week

1368
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 2: for as long as you want to sort of just

1369
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 2: comprehend it. They've got all these great groups you can

1370
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,920
Speaker 2: go to, like Acorn and stuff like that, which a

1371
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 2: little groups of people consider. And Acorns really good, so

1372
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:13,839
Speaker 2: because it's full recovering drug addicts as well. So you say,

1373
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 2: it's because a lot of those things come hand and

1374
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:19,839
Speaker 2: hand it introvenious needle use in the HIV, so really

1375
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 2: good things. And they put me on medication and I

1376
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 2: think the first week I listened to streets of philadelph

1377
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 2: first day I go home and I listened to Streets

1378
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 2: of Philadelphia. If you're not familiar, it's the theme song

1379
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 2: for Philadelphiahia fucking cried my eyes out, and then about

1380
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 2: the next day I felt a bit sorry for myself again.

1381
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 2: I went to the library and wrote some jokes, and

1382
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 2: then the next night went to a comedy show and

1383
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 2: I tried to do some jokes about having it, and

1384
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 2: that was it, and I got over it really fast.

1385
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I know when we talk the other day

1386
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 1: and I said, can we talk about it? And you

1387
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 1: said you're happy, happy to talk about it, and you said, look,

1388
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 1: I'm living my life. I've come to terms of it.

1389
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:59,359
Speaker 1: Because I understand you're saying. You're crying first up when

1390
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 1: you've the diagnosis or the tests come back, and you're thinking, Okay,

1391
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 1: does this destroy my life? But you can still live

1392
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:08,719
Speaker 1: a life now, can't Yeah, because that's what I'm sure

1393
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 1: the listeners are going. Okay, I carry asked the question,

1394
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 1: asked the question you can still live a life and

1395
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 1: have a partner and everything else.

1396
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can, Like you can live it. I almost

1397
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 2: felt embarrassed after everything. I mean, Truce, you're going to

1398
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 2: cry and it's only natural, and that's a normal thing

1399
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 2: to do, but you almost feel embarrassed. After I had

1400
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 2: a big cry about it, I was like, the fuck

1401
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 2: am I crying about? Like it's totally manageable. I take

1402
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 2: one pillar day that I don't pay any money for,

1403
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 2: totally free, Like if I didn't have that, if I

1404
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 2: didn't get those pills for free. There are thousand dollars

1405
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 2: for a month's prescription, so they're not cheap. They checked

1406
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 2: my blood's all the time. I've got a normal life,

1407
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 2: expect to see. The medication itself is so remarkable. Drops

1408
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 2: the viral load down. I don't know who fucking named

1409
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 2: it gay disease viral load, but what they were thinking of?

1410
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 2: What fourteen year old named that? But as I bring

1411
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 2: your kids to work and something, he's like, call it

1412
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 2: a viral load. They drops it down to under two hundred.

1413
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 2: So if it's under two hundred, then they got this thing.

1414
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 2: And age of the community is called you the leader.

1415
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 2: You equals you, So that's undetectable equals untransmissible. So you

1416
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 2: can't even see it in the buds yest. Yeah yeah,

1417
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 2: so you can't see it in any of my bloods.

1418
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 2: I can't give it to anybody, which is you.

1419
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 1: Know okay, and that that's the question. Like everyone that

1420
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 1: what we were schooled up with when it came out,

1421
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: it was just be so careful, you can catch it anywhere,

1422
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:31,440
Speaker 1: drink out of the same glass, that type of stuff.

1423
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean remember in Princess Die kissed that AIDS

1424
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 2: guy and there was Yeah that was radical, radical your time.

1425
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's comes so far.

1426
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it comes so fast. So like you know, I

1427
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 2: live such a normal life and I've only had one

1428
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 2: bad thing happened, and that was I ran out of

1429
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 2: medication once.

1430
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:49,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I couldn't.

1431
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 2: I was in Melbourne section when I was in the

1432
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 2: comedy Fish, I got really sick.

1433
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: Right, okay, really sick. Really, you're going to stay on

1434
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 1: top of it.

1435
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 2: You've got to stay on top of it. And and

1436
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 2: if you don't take your medication and you lapse on

1437
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 2: it and you haven't taken it, what can happen then

1438
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 2: is the virus can then develop.

1439
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 1: Full blown.

1440
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, well can full blonde, but it can develop

1441
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 2: resistance to the anti viral medication. You do yourself a disservice, Yeah,

1442
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 2: because now there's medication. I've got one pill a day.

1443
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 2: It's really good and you want to stay on that

1444
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 2: for as long as you can, but if you stuff

1445
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 2: it up, then the virus can become stronger than that.

1446
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: And yeah, you've talked about your recovery or steering your

1447
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 1: life in the not just with the HIV but your

1448
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 1: life in general. I want people to understand you've got

1449
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 1: to be able to have a laugh at things. Yeah,

1450
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 1: how much does that help in life, going through all

1451
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 1: the battles that you can go through life, that you

1452
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 1: can have a laugh at yourself? Yeah?

1453
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 2: Only does it just not only does it help you

1454
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:47,680
Speaker 2: you and your mental health, you know what I mean,

1455
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 2: because you can have a laugh about it and it

1456
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 2: sort of just doesn't make it feel so heavy, but

1457
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 2: also helps you learn a lot more because then you're

1458
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 2: being a little bit more vulnerable, you're being a little

1459
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 2: bit more like clear hitted about everything, and you know

1460
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 2: you're not so Like I learned a lot of lessons

1461
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 2: by being able to laugh at myself and be able

1462
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 2: to see this like the sarily sort like I was

1463
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 2: saying before, and I look at myself and be like,

1464
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 2: what a fucking joke? Like what was I doing? Who

1465
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 2: do I think I was?

1466
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 1: So? Who did I think I was?

1467
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 2: You know, doing dumb shit and being and like, you know,

1468
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 2: especially like when you're a teenager and you're wearing all

1469
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 2: these gang colors and you're graffitiing and stuff like that,

1470
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 2: and you think you're the man and stuff like that.

1471
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 2: And like when I look at kids like that, and

1472
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 2: now especially you fellows, I've got those essays and oh

1473
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 2: my god, I guess, like how embarrassing you know when

1474
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:33,720
Speaker 2: you're when those kids thirty, Fuck, I hope that. I

1475
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 2: hope that they've because you never know, somebody will never

1476
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 2: grow up. Yeah yeah, but you know when they get

1477
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 2: to like thirty, they're going to be like what dick?

1478
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 1: They look back? Well, yeah, as you grow too, you

1479
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 1: look at life and you learn so much. What you

1480
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 1: thought you knew in twenty is fuck all compared to

1481
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 1: what you know at thirty, and it just keeps going.

1482
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 1: Oh I did that, I.

1483
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 2: Did that at twenty twenty four, twenty seven, and now

1484
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 2: I'm twenty nine and I'm still like, oh man, I

1485
01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 2: don't know shit.

1486
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,240
Speaker 1: Are you will wrap it up? But are you you

1487
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 1: happy with what's happened in your life?

1488
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 2: Fucking interesting question? I And you know what I think

1489
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 2: about this a lot. That's a That's a really tough question,

1490
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 2: because to say anything other than I am what I

1491
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:17,360
Speaker 2: am would be ungrateful. In reality, you know what I mean,

1492
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:19,439
Speaker 2: if you look at it, you know, good, bad, and ugly,

1493
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 2: it doesn't really matter. But to say to say that

1494
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:23,640
Speaker 2: I wanted anything else than what I already am, now

1495
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 2: that'd be incredibly ungrateful. You know, I've I've had I've

1496
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,480
Speaker 2: had a I've had a lot of bad, but I've

1497
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 2: had a lot of good parts of my life. I've

1498
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 2: been showing a lot of love. I had a really

1499
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:35,959
Speaker 2: loving mother, you know, and I had I've got great

1500
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 2: siblings and and all the rest of it. So like, yeah,

1501
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 2: it sucked, Yeah, I would I would have rather not

1502
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 2: probably not gotten molested.

1503
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 1: It probably would have helped a lot in life.

1504
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 2: I would have loved to grow up and accepting inclusive environment.

1505
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 2: And I would have loved to be able to come

1506
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 2: out of the closet and an appropriate age, and and

1507
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 2: also at any age I've felt I could have but

1508
01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 2: just in a safe space and not have to hide

1509
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 2: myself or do anything differently. Yeah, and yeah, it would

1510
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 2: have been great. I probably would have. I think it

1511
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 2: would have been too easy. I would have gotten board.

1512
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:12,080
Speaker 2: I'm very grateful for the life I've got. I'm very,

1513
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 2: very grateful, and I'm very grateful to have such a

1514
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 2: good life. So many of us still don't have good lives,

1515
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 2: and there's so much there's so many atrocity is going

1516
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 2: on in the world right now, and it's all part

1517
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:24,560
Speaker 2: of the beautiful adventure, you know. I really changed the way.

1518
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 2: I had an overdose, really bad overdose. One time. I

1519
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 2: took about seven meals of GHB and a shot classes

1520
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 2: I had a bad day and that'll help, and my

1521
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 2: heart stopped. I was alone in my house and my

1522
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:37,960
Speaker 2: heart stopped. I couldn't breathe. I remember I was slipping

1523
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 2: into this, into the into the ether, and and I

1524
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 2: remember thinking in my head at the time, I was like,

1525
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:46,960
Speaker 2: if I don't start breathing now, I'm going to die

1526
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 2: and I'm never going to come back. That's all I knew.

1527
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,040
Speaker 2: And I started breathing. I got my lungs working. I

1528
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 2: pretty much had to manually breathe for about four hours.

1529
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 2: Just had to like convinced, like just remember to breathe,

1530
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 2: because you're not breathing. You have to remember to breathe.

1531
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 2: It's not on it's not on autopilot anymore. So I

1532
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 2: had to manually breathe for about four hours to keep

1533
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 2: myself alive. And I remember after that whole ordeal, I

1534
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 2: look back and I was like, Wow, you know, life's

1535
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 2: actually just just a beautiful, crazy, fun adventure and that's

1536
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 2: all it is. Like, it's so limited. We've got something

1537
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:18,360
Speaker 2: like hardly any time on this earth, you know, we

1538
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 2: get fuck. All goes so fast, you know, it goes

1539
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:22,960
Speaker 2: so fast, just like that, you know, like you can

1540
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 2: And I remember that as a criminal. I remember saying

1541
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 2: to myself, that is a criminal. I was like, you know,

1542
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 2: they can. You can lose everything just as quickly as

1543
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:31,439
Speaker 2: you can say I wish I never did that. Yeah,

1544
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 2: And that same amount of time with me saying, man,

1545
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 2: I wish I never did that. I could my whole

1546
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:37,000
Speaker 2: I could be incarcerated for the rest of my life,

1547
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:39,920
Speaker 2: I could be dead. It gets so fast. You never

1548
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:42,080
Speaker 2: got such a limited amount of time on this earth.

1549
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:46,160
Speaker 2: And and because of that, it's a balance of not

1550
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 2: taking anything too seriously because it is all going to

1551
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 2: be over one day and it's all going to be forgotten,

1552
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 2: it's going to be dust in the wind, but then

1553
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 2: also not being nihilistic at the same time and going, yeah,

1554
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 2: it's still matters. You should still do what you love

1555
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 2: to do, and she's still you know, essions and stuff

1556
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 2: like that in life. But you shouldn't be so worried

1557
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 2: about your failures. You should just pick yourself up and

1558
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 2: carry on because you know.

1559
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: If you get through life without failing and anything, you

1560
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 1: can't build your character failure. I learn more every time

1561
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 1: I stuff up on something than any success. And if

1562
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 1: I just got success, then, as you've said, when you've

1563
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 1: got it in the stand up comedy at the start,

1564
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 1: you just take it for granted. Yeah, and then you

1565
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 1: lose what made you that good to start with.

1566
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, Yeah, my life's of life is

1567
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:35,040
Speaker 2: a beautiful adventure. It's all going to be over one day,

1568
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 2: so you're just going to You're just gonna have fun

1569
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 2: with it, man, that is what it is.

1570
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Well that's that's a nice way for us

1571
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 1: to wrap up. And I just want to thank you

1572
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:46,560
Speaker 1: for being so open and honest with discussing your life.

1573
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 1: And when I'm laughing at certain aspects of your life,

1574
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:51,640
Speaker 1: I'm laughing with you, not at you. You do either.

1575
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 1: I don't look I think you've given a good insight

1576
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 1: into how life can go off track, but how you

1577
01:04:56,360 --> 01:04:59,120
Speaker 1: can turn it around. And yeah, just being honest with

1578
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:01,040
Speaker 1: how long life can impact on people.

1579
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 2: It can. Yeah, you know, things happen in life, but

1580
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 2: never give up on yourself and never get up and

1581
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 2: give up on your dreams. You know that's the only

1582
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 2: way you're really a loser in life.

1583
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 1: Good advice, Good advice, Thanks Elliot, no worries. Elliott McLaren

1584
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:21,680
Speaker 1: jess open about his life with an interesting chat. I

1585
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:24,440
Speaker 1: still can't believe he turned his life around. He had

1586
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:28,120
Speaker 1: some highs and lows and very complex life. It also

1587
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:32,800
Speaker 1: makes me reflect on the insidious impact that the child's

1588
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 1: sexual abuse has and the pain that that carries people

1589
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:38,439
Speaker 1: throughout their life and the way that they lived their life.

1590
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:41,800
Speaker 1: That I came away from that with a real positive

1591
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,720
Speaker 1: attitude and I like to see people turn their life around,

1592
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 1: and he seems to have done it, and he has

1593
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:49,640
Speaker 1: found these passion as a stand up comedian, and I

1594
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:50,720
Speaker 1: really enjoyed the chat.