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Speaker 1: The Mushroom trial is over and the jury have found

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Speaker 1: Aaron Patterson guilty of murder and attempted murder. Laura, you

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Speaker 1: were in court. What did you see?

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Speaker 2: I was seated right in front of the dock, only

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Speaker 2: a few meters away from Erin. The jury came into

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Speaker 2: the room and the judges associate asked them for their verdicts.

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Speaker 2: One by one. The jury foreman said guilty. I looked

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Speaker 2: at Erin. She sat expressionless, She didn't cry, There was

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Speaker 2: no expression whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of media outside La Trovelli Law courts

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Speaker 1: at the moment or waiting to speak to anyone who

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Speaker 1: will come out.

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Speaker 2: We don't know the next time Erin will be in court,

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Speaker 2: but soon she will have to face a plea hearing

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Speaker 2: before she is sentenced.

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Speaker 1: But let's head back to the studio and discuss it

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Speaker 1: in more depth. I'm Brook Greybert.

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Speaker 2: Craig, I'm Laura Placella.

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Speaker 1: And this is the Mushroom Cook. Hi, Laura, we're back

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Speaker 1: in our podcast studio. So Aaron Patterson has been found guilty.

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Speaker 1: What does this mean?

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Speaker 2: So she's been found guilty of three charges of murder

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Speaker 2: relating to Don Patterson, Gail Patterson and Heather Wilkinson. And

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Speaker 2: she's also been found guilty of the attempted murder of

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Speaker 2: Ian Wilkinson. And it has been a long time in

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Speaker 2: Victoria since we've had someone been found guilty of a

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Speaker 2: triple murder, especially a female. So this is quite a

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Speaker 2: big moment. And what this also means is that the

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Speaker 2: jury have rejected her story that this was a tragic accident.

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Speaker 2: They didn't buy it. They heard all of the evidence

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Speaker 2: that we're about to go through, and they concluded that

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Speaker 2: she deliberately put death caps in that meal with the

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Speaker 2: intention of killing all of her.

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Speaker 1: Guests and Laura. I guess for the last thirty episodes,

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Speaker 1: we broke down the evidence for our listeners and we

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Speaker 1: had to be quite careful in what we were saying.

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Speaker 1: I guess now we can be a bit more candid.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, when you're covering a trial, there are

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Speaker 2: a lot of rules that you have to follow, and

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Speaker 2: we're not going to go into all the law now,

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Speaker 2: But in this point in time, since we have a verdict,

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Speaker 2: we can speak a bit more freely about the evidence

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Speaker 2: and what it means. I know some of our listeners

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Speaker 2: were really wanting us to talk more about the evidence.

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Speaker 2: They wanted to hear our analysis of it, and that

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Speaker 2: makes sense. You know, people who are really interested in

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Speaker 2: the trial wanted all of those things really broken down

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Speaker 2: and explained to them. But now we're in a position

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Speaker 2: where we really can start to analyze the evidence and

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Speaker 2: see how the jury came to the verdict that they did.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Laura, Now let's talk about the seven most damning

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Speaker 1: pieces of evidence that brought down Erin.

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Speaker 2: And these are the pieces of evidence that we think

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Speaker 2: brought her down. We're actually not sure what happened in

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Speaker 2: that jury room. We're not privy to the discussions the

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Speaker 2: jurors had, but these are certainly the pieces of evidence

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Speaker 2: that I think stuck out in both of our minds

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Speaker 2: when we were listening to it, and probably in our listeners'

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Speaker 2: minds when we were bringing it to them as well.

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Speaker 1: I think the first one would definitely have to be

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Speaker 1: the different colored plates and the individual beef Wellington's that

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Speaker 1: Aaron cooked for her guests.

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Speaker 2: I think the colored plates was almost like the smoking

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Speaker 2: gun for some people. They just couldn't wrap their head

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Speaker 2: around why you would invite people over to your house

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Speaker 2: for a lunch and then proceed to serve the meals

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Speaker 2: on different plates. Why wouldn't you just use a matching

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Speaker 2: set of plates that you had.

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Speaker 1: So E Wilkinson, as we've touched on many times before,

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Speaker 1: was the only guest that survived the meal, and he

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Speaker 1: said that Aaron served their beef Wellingtons on stone gray plates,

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Speaker 1: but served herself on an orange tanned plate. He also

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Speaker 1: said the morning after the lunch, Heather remarked, is Aaron

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Speaker 1: short of crockery? I was wondering why she served herself

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Speaker 1: on a different plate to the rest of us. So

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Speaker 1: here's two people with the same account of Aaron serving

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Speaker 1: her guests on different colored plates compared to herself.

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Speaker 2: And during the trial, Aaron's defense barrister Colin Mandy tried

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Speaker 2: to argue that it would have been really dumb for

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Speaker 2: her to use different colored plates if she was trying

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Speaker 2: to commit a murder. He said, it would have been

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Speaker 2: so much smarter for her to just mark the pastry.

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Speaker 2: But it seems like the jury wasn't buying that argument

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Speaker 2: and they've taken Ian Addy's word.

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Speaker 1: And another point is Aaron cooked individual beef Wellington's for

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Speaker 1: her guests rather than cooking up a usual beef Wellington log.

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Speaker 2: We learned that Aaron used the best selling recipe Tin

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Speaker 2: Eats cookbook called Dinner, and there were photos in that

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Speaker 2: recipe of the log you've just described, So it didn't

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Speaker 2: really make sense that someone would follow a recipe one

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Speaker 2: that she's actually never made. Before. Aaron admitted she'd never

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Speaker 2: made a beef Wellington, but makes such a massive change

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Speaker 2: to the recipe, and I guess now we have our

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Speaker 2: answer why she decided to do that. Crown Prosecutor Nannette

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Speaker 2: Rodgers said to the jury that it was the prosecution

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Speaker 2: case that she served individual beef Wellington so she could

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Speaker 2: have complete control of all the ingredients in all the serves.

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Speaker 2: And what we can take away from the jury's verdict

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Speaker 2: is that they agree that her serve of beef Wellington

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Speaker 2: must either have had no mushrooms at all or just

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Speaker 2: regular mushrooms.

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Speaker 1: Now, let's move on to the fabricated cancer claim. And

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Speaker 1: this is a little bit complex, right, Laura.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a little bit. When Erin gave evidence

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Speaker 2: during the trial, she had a whole range of reasons

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Speaker 2: why she was telling people she had medical issues and

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Speaker 2: trying to explain away why she would announce at the

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Speaker 2: table that she had cancer when she really didn't. So

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Speaker 2: Simon told the jury that when he was invited to

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Speaker 2: the lunch two weeks earlier, Aaron did flag that she

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Speaker 2: wanted to discuss some important medical news, but it was

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Speaker 2: only until the day of the lunch. Obviously Simon didn't attend,

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Speaker 2: but it was at the end of the meal that

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Speaker 2: Ian recalled Aaron making an announcement.

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Speaker 1: Yes, he said that Aaron said that she had cancer

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Speaker 1: and she described it as life threatening.

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Speaker 2: And he said in court that that was the moment

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Speaker 2: he realized why they had been invited to the lunch,

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Speaker 2: because the four guests weren't told that Aaron wanted to

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Speaker 2: discuss medical news. She only told that to Simon.

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Speaker 1: The prosecution very much claimed that Aaron planted this seed

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Speaker 1: of this lie far in advance when she told Don

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Speaker 1: and Gale earlier in June that she was having medical

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Speaker 1: tests on her elbow.

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Speaker 2: But this is where I felt like it became a

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Speaker 2: bit confusing, because with Don and Gail, she was talking

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Speaker 2: to them about this lump, and then all of a

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Speaker 2: sudden at the lunch, she starts bringing up ovarian cancer.

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Speaker 2: Seems like she dialed things up to ten during that conversation,

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Speaker 2: but she claimed that she'd only ever brought up cancer

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Speaker 2: at the lunch because she was exploring gastric bypass surgery

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Speaker 2: and she wanted to cover for that procedure when it

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Speaker 2: came time for her to go under the knife. Mister

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Speaker 2: Mandy made a good point during his closing address that

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Speaker 2: she didn't tell the lunch guests about the medical news,

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Speaker 2: and they seemed to just come to the lunch with

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Speaker 2: no reason at all provided. And then she served them

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Speaker 2: the beef Wellington and they ate it before she even

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Speaker 2: told them about the cancer. So I'm not quite sure

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Speaker 2: myself if she really did manufacture this story about cancer

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Speaker 2: to get them to the lunch. It seems like they

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Speaker 2: would have come regardless.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I've seen a lot of questions floating

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Speaker 1: around as to why then Heather and Ian were invited

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Speaker 1: to the lunch, and I think it's quite safe to

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Speaker 1: say that they were really collateral damage in Aaron's plans.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would really agree with that. It did appear

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Speaker 2: that Aaron really wanted Simon at the lunch, and it

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Speaker 2: also appeared that she thought the best chance of that

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Speaker 2: happening would be to have both his parents there. And

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Speaker 2: also his aunt and uncle. I think the term I'd

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Speaker 2: used before with you Brook is safety in numbers. If

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Speaker 2: there are five people sitting around that table, plus erin,

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Speaker 2: I think in everyone's minds, it would have been a

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Speaker 2: lot less likely that something awful would have happened.

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Speaker 1: Now, let's chat about Aaron's lack of symptoms. I think

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Speaker 1: it's safe to say that she wasn't really sick at all,

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Speaker 1: despite the jury hearing that she had diarrhea the day

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Speaker 1: after the lunch.

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Speaker 2: Yet it almost seems now that some of the lies

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Speaker 2: she told on the stand were for nothing, because they

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Speaker 2: were actually pretty embarrassing lies she told the and I'd

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Speaker 2: go one to say the world at large, considering how

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Speaker 2: many people have been following this case, that she had

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Speaker 2: to pull over on the side of the road the

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Speaker 2: day after the lunch and essentially take a poo in

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Speaker 2: the bush, and then she spoke about cleaning herself up,

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Speaker 2: and then spoke about having to drive to a service

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Speaker 2: station to get rid of those soil tissues. So Noel

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Speaker 2: would really want to be recounting any of this. But

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Speaker 2: it seems now that that was just a lie.

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Speaker 1: I know this wasn't really mentioned in court, a lot,

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Speaker 1: but it's something we all as journalists spoke about in

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Speaker 1: Corton in the overflow room. Why did Aaron wear white

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Speaker 1: pants the day after the lunch if she had explosive diarrhea?

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Speaker 2: And we really really wanted the prosecution to make this

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Speaker 2: point in their closing address when they were touching on

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Speaker 2: the trip to Taiab. We were just waiting, like, mention

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Speaker 2: the white pants, mention the white pants. They didn't get mentioned.

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Speaker 2: But you never know, this could have been something that

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Speaker 2: the jurors could have been discussing themselves when you are

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Speaker 2: having one of those days, you're not wearing white pants

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Speaker 2: just in case you do have an accident, which Arin

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Speaker 2: was talking to people about. She was talking about the

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Speaker 2: fact she was scared over the night of the lunch

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Speaker 2: and the next day that she could have an accident.

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Speaker 2: I think the word she used at one point was

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Speaker 2: hoping sitting in the car would feel like a cork.

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Speaker 2: So this was something clearly on her mind, or so

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Speaker 2: she said. It appears the night of and the next

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Speaker 2: day she wasn't really suffering from anything. But I think

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Speaker 2: you've mentioned to me before Brook that you felt like

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Speaker 2: maybe she started to get stressed by the Monday.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely think that would have been the case.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we heard that she went to the

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Speaker 1: hospital and she had tests done of her bower movements,

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Speaker 1: and personally, I do think you know, when you're under

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Speaker 1: so much pressure and anxiety, it can really force your

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Speaker 1: body to do things that you're not really used to.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean essentially, in those days after the lunch,

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Speaker 2: things were unraveling for Erin. I think she was starting

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Speaker 2: to realize that there was a chance she was going

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Speaker 2: to get found out, and I can imagine that would

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Speaker 2: have been in credibly stress inducing and anxiety inducing. So

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Speaker 2: she gets to the hospital on July thirty one, the Monday,

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Speaker 2: she gets taken to Monash Medical Center. Pretty quickly they

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Speaker 2: realize that she's not suffering from death cap mushroom poisoning.

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Speaker 2: But another thing here that we haven't touched on yet

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Speaker 2: was the fact that Aaron told the jury that she

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Speaker 2: vomited after the lunch. But very interestingly, and it makes

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Speaker 2: sense now, she didn't tell anyone else that she vomited

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Speaker 2: after the lunch. It appears that it was a story

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Speaker 2: she concocted to explain to the jury why she wasn't

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Speaker 2: as sick as everyone else.

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Speaker 1: And I think this is a difficulty issue to actually

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Speaker 1: speak upon in any other case. Obviously, when someone is

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Speaker 1: suffering body image and bolimia, you would want to believe them.

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Speaker 1: But I think in Aaron's case, she has proven that

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Speaker 1: she is a liar. So really, did she suffer from bolimia?

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Speaker 1: Did she vomit on that day? Who knows? We don't know.

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Speaker 1: And the jury didn't believe her.

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Speaker 2: I must admit it was a very convenient lie, and

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Speaker 2: one it appears that no one really saw coming. But

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Speaker 2: I think they did a very good job of proving

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Speaker 2: to the jury that it was nothing but a baseless lie.

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Speaker 1: Now let's move on to the citizen website I Naturalists,

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Speaker 1: which we have spoken a lot in detail, and Aaron's

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Speaker 1: phone pings to Outram and Locke.

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Speaker 2: And this is probably one of my favorite parts of

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Speaker 2: the evidence because it really sets out a very compelling timeline.

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Speaker 2: And when I heard about this timeline for the first time,

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Speaker 2: I just couldn't ignore it. I just kept coming back

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Speaker 2: to it and how and how incriminating I.

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Speaker 1: Thought it was.

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Speaker 2: So we have spoken a lot about these dates before,

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Speaker 2: but I really try and do it now in a

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Speaker 2: way that I think will really make sense. So April

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Speaker 2: eighteen is the day that Christine McKenzie posts on Our

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Speaker 2: Naturalists and says she's found death caps in Locke. Ten

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Speaker 2: days later, we now know that Aaron traveled to the

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Speaker 2: area and foraged for death caps. Only a few hours

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Speaker 2: after she in lock, she is at better home living

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Speaker 2: in Lea and Gatha buying.

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Speaker 1: A dehydrator crazy.

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Speaker 2: Only a few hours she'd found what she was looking for.

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Speaker 2: And then she's thought, I need to preserve these because

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Speaker 2: we heard from my collegist, doctor Tom May that death caps,

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Speaker 2: after they've been picked, they only have a certain shelf

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Speaker 2: life before they will start to decompose. So she thought

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Speaker 2: to herself, I need to buy something to help me

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Speaker 2: preserve my eventual murder weapon. So she goes, she gets

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Speaker 2: the dehydrator, then she comes home. Then two days later

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Speaker 2: she takes some photos of her dehydrata, including some photos

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Speaker 2: of some button mushrooms on one of the trays. And

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Speaker 2: this was a really smart argument I thought. From the prosecution,

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Speaker 2: they said that Erin was doing a test run. She

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Speaker 2: was practicing with just some regular woolies mushrooms to try

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Speaker 2: to figure out the best way to dehydrate a mushroom

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Speaker 2: because she wouldn't want to stuff it up. You know,

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Speaker 2: we heard evidence in the trial that death caps had

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Speaker 2: never before been posted to our naturalists in the Gippsland region,

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Speaker 2: So I think she was probably thinking, this is really rare.

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Speaker 2: I want to make sure I don't waste these. Then

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Speaker 2: a few days later she takes some more photos, and

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Speaker 2: this time it appears that those photos were of the

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Speaker 2: death caps sitting on her dehydrator tray. So she had

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Speaker 2: done her test run with the button mushrooms and she

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Speaker 2: was ready to dehydrate the real thing.

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Speaker 1: But it's really crazy to me that she would take

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Speaker 1: photos of this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this was something mister Mandy did point out.

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Speaker 2: He goes, if my client has been planning this murder,

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Speaker 2: why on earth is she taking photos of again the

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Speaker 2: murder weapon, not only the mushrooms, but the dehydrader itself.

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Speaker 2: So that was a little bit strange, I will say.

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Speaker 2: But someone did actually tell me that they thought she

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Speaker 2: had taken the photos as trophy photos. She may not

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Speaker 2: have thought she'd get caught, and they'd actually offer almost

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Speaker 2: a little keepsake of what she was able to find

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Speaker 2: and what she was able to do with those mushrooms.

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Speaker 2: So it seems like Erin a few weeks and perhaps

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Speaker 2: she thinks, I want more death caps, I don't have enough.

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Speaker 2: So she then travels to Locke, where she first went

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Speaker 2: to see if any more death caps were growing, before

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Speaker 2: she travels to Outram after seeing doctor May's post that

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Speaker 2: he had posted only one day beforehand. Mister Manny almost

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Speaker 2: mocked the prosecution case during his closing address, saying that

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Speaker 2: it was extraordinary to suggest that Erin would have been

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Speaker 2: sitting there refreshing our naturalist every day. But it appears

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Speaker 2: with this verdict that the jury has ruled that that's

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Speaker 2: exactly what she did.

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Speaker 1: And we touched upon the dehydrader a bit before, but

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Speaker 1: Aaron did dump it on August two, so this was

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Speaker 1: four days after the lunch and in her evidence, Aaron

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Speaker 1: said that she dumped it because she panicked, but I

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Speaker 1: think it's safe to say that it wasn't so much panic,

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Speaker 1: but more that Aaron was getting rid of the evidence,

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Speaker 1: getting rid of her murder weapon.

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Speaker 2: She knew that she had used the dehydrator to dry

300
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Speaker 2: death caps, and she's really into true crime. She was

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Speaker 2: probably thinking to herself, if they find this dehydrator in

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Speaker 2: my home. They're gonna run tests on it and they

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Speaker 2: might find traces of death caps in there. So I'm

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Speaker 2: just gonna distance myself from this appliance, dump it and

305
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,480
Speaker 2: hope no one finds it. But police were onto it

306
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Speaker 2: very quickly. I think they found it within only two

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Speaker 2: days of her dumping it.

308
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Speaker 1: Now let's move on to the Asian grocer and the

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Speaker 1: lies that Aaron told about this. So we heard during

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Speaker 1: the trial that she told almost a dozen witnesses that

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Speaker 1: mushrooms in the beef Wellington came from a local wooworths

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Speaker 1: and an Asian grocer in Melbourne Southeast, and she was

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Speaker 1: throwing around different suburbs like Clayton, Oakley Mount Waverley. But

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Speaker 1: really she did this to send the Department of Health

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Speaker 1: on a wild goose chase, because she in fact did

316
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Speaker 1: not buy any mushrooms from any Asian grocer in Melbourne Southeast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, these poor Asian grocers became scapegoats. Almost in the

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Speaker 2: days after the lunch, she was starting to realize that

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Speaker 2: she needed to deflect blame. She needed to come up

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Speaker 2: with a story to explain why death caps were in

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Speaker 2: the meal she cooked. I think she cottoned on pretty

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Speaker 2: fast that no one would believe her if she said

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Speaker 2: she just bought the mushrooms from Woolworths, so she needed

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Speaker 2: another element. And we do know that she did shop

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Speaker 2: at these sorts of Asian grocers before, so they probably

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Speaker 2: popped into her mind and she's like, great, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to throw them under the bus. But during the trial

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Speaker 2: things kind of took a turn, and when Erin was

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Speaker 2: giving evidence, she then all of a sudden revealed that

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Speaker 2: when she was cooking the mushroom duckt cells for the

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Speaker 2: beef Wellington, she had gone to her pantry to grab

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Speaker 2: a container of the dried mushrooms from the Asian grocer.

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Speaker 2: She explained that she threw them in, but then she

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Speaker 2: said that after a few days she realized that maybe

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Speaker 2: that container also had foraged mushrooms in there. So by

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Speaker 2: this stage, Erin's story had evolved from only Woolworths mushrooms

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Speaker 2: being in the meal, to Wolworth's mushrooms plus dried mushrooms

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Speaker 2: from an Asian groser, to finally, in its final evolution,

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Speaker 2: Woolworth's mushrooms plus dried mushrooms from an Asian groser plus

340
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Speaker 2: forage mushrooms that she had accidentally put into this container

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Speaker 2: after one of her foraging trips.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think she really had to add

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Speaker 1: in that element of the forage mushrooms because she knew

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Speaker 1: that she would be caught out for lying about Asian grosers.

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Speaker 1: I think we have to consider if there were death

346
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Speaker 1: cap mushrooms at Asian grocers, why didn't anyone else get

347
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Speaker 1: sick in Victoria.

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Speaker 2: It really did seem like Erin was hedging her bets

349
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Speaker 2: because she was trying to leave open the possibility that

350
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Speaker 2: maybe the death caps did come from the Asian groser,

351
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Speaker 2: or maybe she had accidentally foraged death caps when it

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Speaker 2: came to her trying to spin this story about it

353
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Speaker 2: being an accident. I don't think she wanted to just

354
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Speaker 2: lock herself into one source of mushrooms. She wanted to

355
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Speaker 2: give herself as many options as possible.

356
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Speaker 1: And really create that doubt within the jury.

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Speaker 2: But again they really didn't.

358
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Speaker 1: Now let's finish off with something that we've dubbed the

359
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Speaker 1: game of phones.

360
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Speaker 2: Our producer was really happy with that phrase, and it's

361
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,800
Speaker 2: a really good one and it really describes what was

362
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,639
Speaker 2: going on here. So we have phone a phone, b

363
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,119
Speaker 2: and Phone C. We won't crap on about them too

364
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,240
Speaker 2: much more. But essentially what this verdict really shows was

365
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:23,040
Speaker 2: that Phone A, which was Erin's usual phone, was disposed

366
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Speaker 2: of by Erin at some stage. We don't know where

367
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:26,840
Speaker 2: she put it.

368
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:28,640
Speaker 1: She wanted to get rid of that evidence.

369
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Speaker 2: Yeah, she really did. The prosecution had always argued that

370
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,040
Speaker 2: that was probably the phone she used to search our naturalist.

371
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,919
Speaker 2: It was the phone she took to lock an outrum,

372
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Speaker 2: considering that there were those phone pings, so it was

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Speaker 2: very likely that she is looking on her phone at

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Speaker 2: I Naturalist trying to figure out what tree did. Doctor

375
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Speaker 2: may say the death caps are under it's almost like

376
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Speaker 2: her guide. So she's gotten rid of Phone A. But

377
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,280
Speaker 2: then she's thought to herself when the police come knocking,

378
00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,680
Speaker 2: which I think she realized they would, she needed a

379
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,199
Speaker 2: dumb phone, so she had a lot of devices, it seemed,

380
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,080
Speaker 2: laying around her house. So she's grabbed Phone B and

381
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 2: she started to set it up to appear like it's

382
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Speaker 2: her phone. She's done that around August two, August three.

383
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,120
Speaker 2: By August five they do come knocking, and she's probably thinking, great,

384
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,240
Speaker 2: I'm prepared. Now she has to pull a little bit

385
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,080
Speaker 2: of a sneaky and take out her SIM card from

386
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,080
Speaker 2: Phone A, her usual phone. I don't think she wanted

387
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,639
Speaker 2: to lose her number, so she's taken out her SIMP card,

388
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,560
Speaker 2: hid in Phone A somewhere in the house at least

389
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Speaker 2: for now, and then she's just handed over Phone B

390
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,040
Speaker 2: to police and said, yep, this is my phone here,

391
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:41,080
Speaker 2: you can have it. But maybe panic took over in

392
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Speaker 2: that moment, because she's then gone and factory reset Phone

393
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,760
Speaker 2: B two times. It may have been panic and she's

394
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 2: just thought maybe I'll just, you know, wipe my dummy

395
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,440
Speaker 2: phone for the sake of it. Or maybe she thought

396
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,640
Speaker 2: wiping the dummy phone would delay police a little bit.

397
00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,280
Speaker 2: Maybe they wouldn't actually realize that that her phone until

398
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,480
Speaker 2: later when they got back to police HQ. So again

399
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,399
Speaker 2: we go back to this game of phones idea.

400
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:11,479
Speaker 1: I think this really speaks to Aaron's level of sophistication. Really,

401
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,119
Speaker 1: she was really thinking ahead and planning out her moves.

402
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. And when she was giving evidence, she

403
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,840
Speaker 2: actually had some explanations to the switching of the phones

404
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,480
Speaker 2: that I must admit at some points did seem to

405
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 2: make a bit of sense. She said that police didn't

406
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,040
Speaker 2: touch one of the phones in her house and left

407
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,439
Speaker 2: it on a window sill, and she claimed that was

408
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,520
Speaker 2: Phone A. Clearly no one was buying that. And then

409
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,160
Speaker 2: she also argued that she was simply setting up Phone

410
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,879
Speaker 2: B because fon A was for some reason damaged despite

411
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,680
Speaker 2: being six months old, and she also wanted to get

412
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 2: a new phone number. But I think you know, if

413
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 2: you've served up a lunch that is about to claim

414
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 2: the lives of almost all of your guests. I don't

415
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,200
Speaker 2: think that is the time you're setting up a new phone.

416
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,399
Speaker 2: It would be the last thing on your mind, really,

417
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 2: But in this case, Aaron was spending those days trying

418
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 2: to figure out a way to get away with murder.

419
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,400
Speaker 1: So now that Erin has been found guilty of murder,

420
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Speaker 1: she will be taken back to a woman's maximum security prison,

421
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,640
Speaker 1: Dame Phyllis Frost. But Laura, what's next? Can she appeal?

422
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 2: So she can appeal, But before that can happen, there

423
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,480
Speaker 2: are a few final stages that she needs to undergo

424
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,439
Speaker 2: in the trial process. So here in Victoria, someone is

425
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 2: found guilty of a serious crime, they will face what's

426
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 2: called a plea. Hearing the word please sometimes confuses people.

427
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,120
Speaker 2: Sometimes people think that means they've pleaded guilty, but it's

428
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,200
Speaker 2: just what the hearing is called. But effectively, it's when

429
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 2: the prosecution will present their arguments to the judge about

430
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,360
Speaker 2: how long they think she should spend in jail. They'll

431
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 2: put forward some aggravating factors as well, things they say

432
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,479
Speaker 2: that makes this crime really bad and really heinous. But

433
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 2: then on the flip side, the defense will get a

434
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 2: chance to argue why she should spend a little bit

435
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,640
Speaker 2: less time in jail. They're likely to commission many psychiatric

436
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 2: reports about Erin and they'll go into her past. And

437
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 2: then after that, after those arguments are had, the judge

438
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 2: will go away and think about the sentence he will

439
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 2: hand down. This is justice Christopher Biale, and then she'll

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Speaker 2: be back to court for sentencing.

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Speaker 1: And when do you reckon, we'll get a sentence.

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Speaker 2: This whole process could take a number of months. Like

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Speaker 2: I mentioned before, there are are psychiatric reports that might

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Speaker 2: need to be completed, so it could be potentially six

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Speaker 2: months until she is sentenced. But in Victoria, murder carries

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Speaker 2: a maximum penalty of life imprisonment, and Erin isn't just

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Speaker 2: facing one count of murder. She's facing three plus the

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Speaker 2: attempted murder of Ian. So I don't have a crystal ball.

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Speaker 2: I can't sit here and say exactly what she will

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Speaker 2: be sentenced to. But it is very likely that Erin

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Speaker 2: will die in prison.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but that's unless she wins her appeal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you did ask me that before Brook about

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Speaker 2: the appeals process that can take even longer. So after

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Speaker 2: Erin is sentenced, she does have that opportunity to appeal.

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Speaker 2: You can appeal on two grounds, so she can appeal

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Speaker 2: her conviction, and she can also appeal her sentence. If

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Speaker 2: she goes down the first route, that's her essentially arguing

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Speaker 2: that something has happened in the trial that hasn't been fair.

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Speaker 2: It's not so much her having a goal at the jury,

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Speaker 2: but more so them arguing that the trial wasn't run properly.

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Speaker 2: And if that appeal is successful, we could actually potentially

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Speaker 2: have a retrial. The Court of appeal might rule that

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Speaker 2: this all needs to happen again because Erin didn't get

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Speaker 2: a fair trial the first time, or she can go

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Speaker 2: down a second route of appealing her sentence to try

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Speaker 2: and get a few years or months shaved off in

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Speaker 2: the hope that she can potentially see the light of

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Speaker 2: day again.

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Speaker 1: So that's Erin's future. But as for us, we'll be

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Speaker 1: back with a couple more episodes, but in the meantime

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Speaker 1: for more, go to the mushroomcook dot com dot au