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Speaker 1: I'll get a team. It's the bloody you project. It's

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Speaker 1: harp to stiff, it's grant. We've got a newbie. He

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Speaker 1: was having to go with me because it took us

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Speaker 1: eight years to get him on. But I said I

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Speaker 1: needed to train up upskill, get smart enough so I

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Speaker 1: could have a conversation with him before we go to him.

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Speaker 1: High tip for you.

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Speaker 2: All right, I'm all right, thanks, I'm all right.

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Speaker 1: How's all your issues? I mean, I know that you've

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Speaker 1: been very open with the world about your psychological, emotional,

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Speaker 1: physiological issues, social issues. You know all that. Are you okay?

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Speaker 2: I've grappled him into submission today.

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Speaker 3: So today's day.

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Speaker 1: It's a good day. Yeah, it's good. A choke hold.

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Speaker 1: When do you know if it's going to be a

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Speaker 1: good day? Do you get out of bed going fuck

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Speaker 1: here today I feel good, I'm on point, or do

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh god, this is going to be like

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Speaker 1: waiting through emotional quicksand.

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Speaker 2: Look, sometimes you just don't know. Sometimes things come from

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Speaker 2: left field.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 2: I wake up and you know what, my sleep's been

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Speaker 2: great lately. So so the days are not starting tired

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Speaker 2: and heavy and underslept and from a deficit which is awesome.

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Speaker 2: Yesterday I woke up and was the first day for

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Speaker 2: a long time I've wanted to go and do intense

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Speaker 2: exercise like boxing, and it felt so good.

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Speaker 1: How long since you've punched a real human in the face, though,

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Speaker 1: Enough about hitting bags and speedballs and shit, since you've

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Speaker 1: hit a person in the face?

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Speaker 4: Whatever?

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Speaker 2: Date earlier this year when I did some sparring with

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Speaker 2: my blind friend.

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Speaker 1: But you're going to I mean, I'm no boxer, but

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Speaker 1: if you're going to spar with someone, make sure they're blind.

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Speaker 1: That is a great strategy. It's not very politically incorrect,

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Speaker 1: but fucking he wanted to get in there.

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Speaker 2: It works well for me.

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Speaker 1: So I reckon, we might chuck you and Grant Duley

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Speaker 1: in the ring and just say I reckon you. Probably

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Speaker 1: I reckon you'd hit it nine times. She's an ex

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Speaker 1: professional boxer. She did you about nine times before you

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Speaker 1: pulled on your fucking gloves.

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Speaker 4: Possibly ten times. Actually, are you?

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Speaker 1: Firstly, Grant, Hey, nice to meet you, sir, Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the You project. Thanks for being a part of it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, great to be here. And what your tipers are

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Speaker 4: saying then about sleep, that's the key for me too.

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Speaker 4: If you have a good night's sleep, you start the

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Speaker 4: day feeling energized and ready to take on the world.

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Speaker 4: But when you have a bad night's sleep, and yeah,

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Speaker 4: you start from way back in that quicksand waiting, So

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Speaker 4: that really resonates.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what's your quota? Like how many hours do you need? Six,

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Speaker 1: you need seventy, you need nine? Does it depend on

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Speaker 1: the quality? But let's say it's good sleep. How many

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Speaker 1: hours is enough?

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Speaker 4: Probably six? If I get six good hours sleep, I'm

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Speaker 4: pretty good. I can live on four. But it's the

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Speaker 4: quality of the sleep that matters. Really.

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Speaker 1: That's so true to tip. What's your magic number in

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Speaker 1: terms of like if it's good sleep. Oh, by the way,

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Speaker 1: you're still obsessed with that fucking thing you wear on

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Speaker 1: your wrist, it up and check it whether or not.

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Speaker 1: Like as you get up and go I feel good,

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Speaker 1: and then you look at your watch and you're like, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 2: That is the quickest way to knock feeling good on

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Speaker 2: the head, knock a good night's sleep on the head

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Speaker 2: by just looking at your watch to see if it

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Speaker 2: was real, if it really happened.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I reckon you sholl get rid of the watch

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Speaker 1: and listen to your biology. I reckon your biology is

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Speaker 1: smarter than your technology at the moment, just saying true, yea,

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Speaker 1: I need I need eight. I'm an eight person. Do

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Speaker 1: you reckon grant? There's a real relationship between and I

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Speaker 1: know you didn't think we were going to start here,

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Speaker 1: but we never know where we're going to start because

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Speaker 1: we don't plan, which apparently is bad for you. Is

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Speaker 1: there a relationship between how you're feeling, your emotions, your psychology,

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Speaker 1: your productivity, your mental acuity, and how well you sleep?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, totally. You know when when we can touch on

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Speaker 4: it touch miss in the books why I wrote the book,

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Speaker 4: But when I had that very first big panic attack,

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Speaker 4: it really impacted my sleep more than anything else because

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Speaker 4: it unleashed this level of anxiety in my body, heart

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Speaker 4: rate going through the roof, and every night I try

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Speaker 4: to go to sleep, my heart's going to jink a

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Speaker 4: jink a jink a jink a jink So you end

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Speaker 4: walking the streets at three in the morning, you end

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Speaker 4: up getting this very patchy sleep, and very quickly that

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Speaker 4: impacted my not I think my ability to go to

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Speaker 4: work and be productive in the office. But you know,

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Speaker 4: I had two young kids in the house and you know,

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Speaker 4: and they're watching their father become a super cranky old

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Speaker 4: man very quickly.

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Speaker 3: So it's not just yourself as those.

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Speaker 4: Around you, particularly a family, that also end up seeing

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Speaker 4: it feeling it. Yeah, So starting a good night's sleep,

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Speaker 4: I firmly believe. And it's the first thing that it's

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Speaker 4: the key. I have a routine I go through every

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Speaker 4: night to make sure that my sleep hygiene gets me

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Speaker 4: to the point where I go to sleep and I

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Speaker 4: sleep well. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Your sympathetic nervous system, you know, that fight or flight response.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't give a shit about what you want. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't care about what you want. It just does its

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Speaker 1: own thing, you know. And when you're in that even

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Speaker 1: though logically, like you know, well, right now things are good,

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Speaker 1: right now, I am safe, right now, there is no threat.

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Speaker 1: But despite all of that awareness and knowledge, you can

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Speaker 1: still get held to ransom by your body, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly right. And you know that fight and flight

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Speaker 4: response is the thing that once I had that panic attack,

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Speaker 4: which was the genesis for the book, I have to

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Speaker 4: start dealing with the heart rate. And yeah, medications is

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Speaker 4: a very much a band aid response for me. It

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Speaker 4: was it was actually about you know, letting some very

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Speaker 4: good habits, for instance, meditating, and meditating really was about

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Speaker 4: breathing for me to slow my body down. Breathing is

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Speaker 4: the best way to do it. And then the actually

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Speaker 4: is who actually write the book and getting some of

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Speaker 4: the stuff out of my head which I couldn't talk

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Speaker 4: about but I could write about it. And that those

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Speaker 4: two together over a period of time put me well,

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Speaker 4: put me in a really good place, which is largely

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Speaker 4: what I mean. Now. I still I'm quite di sciplined

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Speaker 4: about my sleep and my sleep hygen, but I've been

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Speaker 4: able to uncover a system that works for me. And really,

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Speaker 4: but if I don't meditate for my half an hour

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Speaker 4: to forty five minutes a day, if I don't find

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Speaker 4: a way to unwind that mind at night, then yeah,

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Speaker 4: my heart will start going and I'll start fretting about it.

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Speaker 4: Once I start fretting about it, then the heart goes

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Speaker 4: faster and you just goes into spiral.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, My PhD is essentially in the mind that

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Speaker 1: I'm always saying, if you can't manage your mind, you

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Speaker 1: really can't manage your life, you know, because it's such

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Speaker 1: it's like your operational headquarters. You know it's it's UHQ.

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Speaker 1: You said you couldn't talk about it, but you can

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Speaker 1: write about it. So I'm curious, once you could write

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Speaker 1: about it, once you've got it out of your heading

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Speaker 1: onto a page, so to speak, did that liberate the

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Speaker 1: vocalizing of it.

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Speaker 4: To a degree. I mean, the book talks about a

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Speaker 4: particular period in Jakata when I was in the embassy.

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Speaker 4: We had a bombings, we had riots, we had plane crashes,

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Speaker 4: and the plane crash was probably the most personal because

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Speaker 4: friends were on that plane that died, and I was

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Speaker 4: supposed to be on the plane and at the last

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Speaker 4: minute changed my mind and a friend took my seat.

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Speaker 4: I think he took my seat. To this day, I

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Speaker 4: don't one hundred percent certain whether he was actually in

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Speaker 4: my seat, but a friend who then got on the

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Speaker 4: plane did die. And that was the stuff in your head,

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Speaker 4: the guilt complex and all those type of things what

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Speaker 4: is and things, So it's better process. I had the

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Speaker 4: book launched last night, actually, and that was the first

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Speaker 4: time I've been able to talk about very publicly talk

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Speaker 4: about these events, and that was a big step because

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Speaker 4: once I could start talking about it was more just

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Speaker 4: talking about my family, friends, but the talk about it

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Speaker 4: publicly in an open environment front of one hundred old people.

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Speaker 3: That was pretty emotional.

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Speaker 1: Well well done, you mate, It's amazing, and nothing but

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Speaker 1: love and empathy from here and so everyone. The book

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Speaker 1: is called Bomb Season in Jakarta Diary of a diplomatic Nightmare.

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Speaker 1: Did I get that correct?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's Bomb Season in Jakarta exactly, a diary of

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Speaker 4: a nightmare. I think as something, yeah, a personal account

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Speaker 4: of turbulent period. You know, there's lots of taglines, but

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Speaker 4: generally speaking as a first person memoir of my time

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Speaker 4: in the embassy in Jakata from two thousand and four

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Speaker 4: to two thousand and seven, during a period of when

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Speaker 4: I mean the reason it's called bomb Season in Jakarta,

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Speaker 4: we had the Balley bombing in the September of two

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Speaker 4: thousand and two, we had the Marriott bombing in the August,

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Speaker 4: we had the Embassy bombing in the September, and by

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Speaker 4: the time the next year came around, we're saying, oh,

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Speaker 4: what are you going to be doing for bomb season

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Speaker 4: because obviously this three month period is when the bombs

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Speaker 4: are going off, and as the black humor, Yeah, what

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Speaker 4: are you doing for bomb season? I think when I

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Speaker 4: got back to Australia, I think it became this lexicon

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Speaker 4: of your day to day life and blowing down what happens.

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Speaker 4: Another bombing happens in October that year, so it became

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Speaker 4: real that this bomb season existed, you know. So it

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Speaker 4: was a fairly stressful as you could imagine my wife

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Speaker 4: and young family, there was a pretty stressful time.

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Speaker 1: And I think from the outside looking in, for anyone commentating,

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Speaker 1: any external person who wasn't in the middle of it,

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Speaker 1: commentating on that and calling it bomb season would be

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Speaker 1: so you know, inappropriate and politically incorrect. But if you're

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Speaker 1: in the middle of it and you're an Aussie, it's

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Speaker 1: probably just a way of kind of turning down the

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Speaker 1: intensity and the anxiety a little bit and while not

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Speaker 1: making lights of it, just trying to find a way

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Speaker 1: to navigate it with some remote sense of humor or.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, just trying to turn down the volume

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Speaker 1: on the intensity of those emotions must be a challenge.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you had. I mean, it was just it was

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Speaker 4: just we didn't even think about it. The words has

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Speaker 4: kind of came up and then we all started I

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Speaker 4: don't know who first came up with the bomb season,

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Speaker 4: but it was just so obviously correct. This is when

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Speaker 4: the bombs went off, you know. And you know, with

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Speaker 4: another really interesting piece of black humor in the book

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Speaker 4: as well, which goes to this point, is they they

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Speaker 4: found a website from Jamara's Leamir who had perpetrated the bombings,

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Speaker 4: this terrorist group, and they found a website the Australian

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Speaker 4: Fidal Police and the Indonesian authorities that identified the best

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Speaker 4: places to assassinate Australian diplomats. So you come to work

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Speaker 4: one day and a Monday, you'll get called into the

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Speaker 4: boardroom and you get told by the way, guys, this

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Speaker 4: is this website out there. They've been following you around

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Speaker 4: that have identified the best place to assassinate you. And

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Speaker 4: shock horror, one of them was the bridge that would

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Speaker 4: connect the embassy to our favorite cafe where we've got

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Speaker 4: our lunches from every day. You don't stand between, you know,

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Speaker 4: a diplomat in these lunch So they put a couple

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Speaker 4: of a couple of plain clothes offices, the Indonesian policed

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Speaker 4: it on the bridge so that we could go across

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Speaker 4: every day and get get our sandwiches. And we then

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Speaker 4: made up a roster in the office called the Bridge

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Speaker 4: of Death. Roster who's rostered on today? To get the

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Speaker 4: sandwiches on to cross the bridge of death? You know,

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Speaker 4: these these type of you know, you think about now

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Speaker 4: and even when I was writing about and I think,

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Speaker 4: did we really do that? But but again, the black

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Speaker 4: humor we just just became. The bridge of death was

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Speaker 4: the name for this particular bridge. And when you're rosted on,

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Speaker 4: you know, if you did a little shuffle over the

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Speaker 4: bridge to get the sangars and come back, and everyone

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Speaker 4: would be watching out the windows, and soid you coming

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Speaker 4: back across the other side as a big cheer went up.

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Speaker 1: Dude, that that is fucking ridiculous. That is so heavy.

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Speaker 1: But you know what, I think it also speaks to

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Speaker 1: the fact, grant that like we deal with trauma and

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Speaker 1: drama and risk and threats and fear and anxiety an

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Speaker 1: uncertainty in our own ways. Right, It's like, who's to

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Speaker 1: say that's appropriate or inappropriate? Well, if the people in

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Speaker 1: the middle of it are using that language, it's okay,

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Speaker 1: you know, if it.

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Speaker 4: Helps you get through. I mean, we were literally frogs

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Speaker 4: in boiling water. To use that old German fable, we

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Speaker 4: didn't really probably understand our own clarity what was going

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Speaker 4: on around us, but we had to cope, and the

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Speaker 4: coping mechanism black humor is a very very very good

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Speaker 4: resilience as one. Obviously you've got to be resilient, but

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Speaker 4: black humour somehow humanizes in a way that it becomes

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Speaker 4: a shared experience that we can all share because through

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Speaker 4: that black humor, we're all in the same community, we're

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Speaker 4: all in the same we're all supporting each other, and

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Speaker 4: I think as a part of the coping mechanism when

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Speaker 4: you're in that type of environment. One.

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Speaker 1: So, without me reading out some I was going to

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Speaker 1: say boring bio. It's definitely not a boring bier. But

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Speaker 1: without me reading something or could you give our audience

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Speaker 1: a snapshot to a normal podcast would start with this,

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Speaker 1: but fuck it, we're not normal. A bit of a

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Speaker 1: snapshot of who you are and your role and your background,

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Speaker 1: just to give us context and kind of a bit

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Speaker 1: of an insight and understanding into who Grant Duly is

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Speaker 1: and you know why you ended up over there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So I grew up in Melbourne Williamstown, working class family,

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Speaker 4: joined the Navy at sixteen, so I didn't finish high

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Speaker 4: school in the Navy. I then became a Chinese linguist.

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Speaker 4: This is a bit of a journey here, and so

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Speaker 4: I speak Floyd Mandarin Chinese. It was that period of

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Speaker 4: the eighties when China was becoming more important. I was

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Speaker 4: pretty good linguist. So I sent to Hong Kong and

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Speaker 4: worked for the British in the lead up to the

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Speaker 4: handover in ninety ninety seven. Then I went to UNI,

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Speaker 4: the Navy payment the Gate UNI. He got a degree

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Speaker 4: in Asian Studies. And then one day an old friend

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Speaker 4: who I'd met in Hong Kong was in Foreign Affairs,

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Speaker 4: ran me up and said, we're desperate for the Chinese

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Speaker 4: speakers and China specialists. So I left the Navy and

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Speaker 4: became a diplomat and joined the Foreign Service in ninety eight.

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Speaker 4: So the obvious question is how as a manner in

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Speaker 4: speaking diplomat end up in Jakata. Well, my wife, who

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Speaker 4: I'd met in the Navy, she was my last boss

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Speaker 4: and is still the boss to this day. We just

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Speaker 4: made it permanent now she joined We actually met in

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Speaker 4: the Navy, but we got together when she joined Foreign

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Speaker 4: Affairs and she got a posting to Jakarta.

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Speaker 3: So the book starts of us arriving.

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Speaker 4: It was her posting I didn't have a job, and

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Speaker 4: then I got a job in the embassy as well,

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Speaker 4: and it was through getting that job that I was

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Speaker 4: on language training the day that the embassy was bombed,

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Speaker 4: so I was Navy diplomat. To finish the biography, I

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Speaker 4: then left the Foreign Service and became a funds manager

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Speaker 4: and I've been working in finance for the last decade

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Speaker 4: in a bit. So not your normal career projection.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I mean, among many other things that I want

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Speaker 1: to lean into, but a Mandarin, Dude, that is so hard.

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Speaker 1: That is like one of the hardest languages to learn.

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Speaker 1: How Like, I know a lot of people have tried

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Speaker 1: to learn that and they none of them ever really

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Speaker 1: get fluent, not fluent fluent. How long did that take?

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Speaker 4: Well, the great thing about the military the great language school,

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Speaker 4: and there was that point cook in those days here

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Speaker 4: in Melbourne, and the course is just full on Chinese.

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Speaker 4: So after the twelfth week, you're no longer speaking English.

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Speaker 4: You're trying to speak Chinese every day you're in a

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Speaker 4: Chinese environment. It's a forty two weeks long course. A

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Speaker 4: couple of weeks off tering it, so it's full of

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Speaker 4: full immersion. And then I had another year in Hong

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Speaker 4: Kong where I did learning Chinese. So shinse want to

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Speaker 4: put on clear went here so I can still actually

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Speaker 4: exactly yeah, I was going to say, yeah, so yeah,

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Speaker 4: and still to this day, I'm a China expert. Had

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Speaker 4: just written his first book on Indonesia. Yeah, so go

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Speaker 4: figure Tiff.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what he said? He just said, look

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Speaker 1: at these two dumb asses on the show with me.

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Speaker 4: That's what you just said I.

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Speaker 3: Want.

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Speaker 1: I've already got shipped self esteem. I don't need you

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Speaker 1: fucking jumping on kicking me. See all right? So so

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Speaker 1: what what precipitated the book? I've written a few books.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, and it's it's no mean. Is this your

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Speaker 1: first book?

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Speaker 3: Or is this one of my first book? How?

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Speaker 1: What?

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Speaker 3: So?

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Speaker 1: One? What did you learn about writing and publishing and

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Speaker 1: distribution and like the practical side of books? You know where? Okay,

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Speaker 1: I've written it, now, how how the fuck do we

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Speaker 1: sell it? How did we distribute it? How do we

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Speaker 1: make people? I've got to go on a fucking you

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Speaker 1: project and talk to these two dummies to try and

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Speaker 1: get a few all that stuff, right, what did what

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Speaker 1: have you learned about the the science and business of books?

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Speaker 1: And two what did you learn about you writing the book?

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Speaker 1: Let's start with number one.

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Speaker 4: So I'll start, Yeah, I think I'll start with how

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Speaker 4: did I write the book? And then I'll touch on

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Speaker 4: the shot process, how I got published. So the genesis

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Speaker 4: for the book actually is another book called The Resilience Project,

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Speaker 4: which is it might be aware of and it talks

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Speaker 4: about gem's gratitude, empathy, mindfulness and basically, my son Callum

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Speaker 4: gave me that book for Christmas in twenty nineteen after

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Speaker 4: I had this big panic attack and he was there

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Speaker 4: present when I had the panic attack. My family were worried.

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Speaker 4: I kind of kind of pushed to the side when

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Speaker 4: I'm okay, but I wasn't. So one of the things

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Speaker 4: in the book talks about journalizing. So I started just

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Speaker 4: writing down every day, you know what I'm what, what

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Speaker 4: I've got, gratitude for my family and the positives in

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Speaker 4: my life. And then I just found I really liked

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Speaker 4: the writing bit, doing this diary on a daily basis,

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Speaker 4: and then so I thought, okay, So I started writing

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Speaker 4: about some of the things that occurred in Jakarta, and

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Speaker 4: I started with the bombing and and I very quickly

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Speaker 4: realized that I enjoyed that process. Where it was really

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Speaker 4: interesting is that things I lost my memory for about

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Speaker 4: half an hour and the day of the bombing, from

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Speaker 4: when I went out the front of the embassy and

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Speaker 4: I saw all this trauma and chaos and I couldn't

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Speaker 4: actually remember that, and I didn't know.

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Speaker 3: How long it was.

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Speaker 4: But through the process of writing, my memory came back,

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Speaker 4: which is really fascinating itself. So I found the writing

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Speaker 4: experience really allowed me to get things out of my head.

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Speaker 4: The best thing about it was I didn't write the

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Speaker 4: book to be published, so I'm just writing it, so

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Speaker 4: I'm just getting it out. I'm just writing. Sometimes I'm crying,

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Speaker 4: sometimes I'm laughing. Then I started writing about the funny

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Speaker 4: stories and the weird idiosyncrasies of the people I worked

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Speaker 4: with in the embassy, the crazy ministers that would come through,

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Speaker 4: and the weird demands. And so the book just evolved

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Speaker 4: through this process of writing and getting stuff out and

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Speaker 4: the way when I kind of had all these different

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Speaker 4: small stories and I shared with my wife and she said, look,

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Speaker 4: you should try and put that into a book. You know,

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Speaker 4: try and actually stitch it together, which I did over

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Speaker 4: a number of years in the edge. Took me about

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Speaker 4: three to be years to write the book and then

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Speaker 4: I finished it, and I finished it here in Melbourne

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Speaker 4: by the stage we were in Singapoore when I started

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Speaker 4: writing it. By the time I finished it with back

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Speaker 4: in Melbourne and my staff where I was working a

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Speaker 4: CEO of investment company, they would watch me because i'd

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Speaker 4: write every night after work. I go to the park

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Speaker 4: and I get a pint of beer and some chips

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Speaker 4: and I'd write for an hour. That was my writing routine.

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Speaker 4: So the people at the the Charles Dickens haven't actually

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Speaker 4: in Melbourne and Colin Street. They'd seen them, Yeah, they'd

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Speaker 4: see me in the back office there in the back

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Speaker 4: on the table, tapping away. And then so my staff

394
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Speaker 4: either thought he's either an alcoholic or he's doing something else.

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Speaker 4: Had they come clean that I was writing a book.

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Speaker 4: And one of them and this is how I got published.

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Speaker 4: One of them has written the god called Stuart Cow's

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Speaker 4: has written about six books. And he just kept saying

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Speaker 4: I want to read it. I wanted, I said, And

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Speaker 4: I said, look Stuart, I've written this purely for my

401
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Speaker 4: own benefit. It's been a part of this for me.

402
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Speaker 4: A therapy has been very cathartic. I think I'm in

403
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Speaker 4: a place to share it just yet. And really over

404
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Speaker 4: about a year of impestering me, I wanted a couple

405
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Speaker 4: of years. In a Christmas luncheon at the end of

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty two and he finally got okay, I'll give

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Speaker 4: you a copy, which I did, and he read it

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Speaker 4: and he just came in the office one day and said, look, mate,

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Speaker 4: you've got to get this published. I cried three times.

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Speaker 4: This is a really good book. And I said I've

411
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Speaker 4: got no idea how to get published, and he said,

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Speaker 4: lead that with me. He had a good friend who

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Speaker 4: was the ex CEO of Melbourne University Press, Nathan Hollyer,

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Speaker 4: and a big shout out to him because he when

415
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Speaker 4: he got the book, that was a real for me.

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Speaker 4: You know, when you write a book, you're kind of

417
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Speaker 4: worrying about how people are going to read it. You're

418
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Speaker 4: putting yourself out there. And he just came back and said, look,

419
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Speaker 4: this is great, but it's not for the university the print.

420
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Speaker 4: This is a commercial. This is a great story that

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Speaker 4: needs a wider audience, and he then rang Martin Hughes,

422
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Speaker 4: who was the then CEO of for Firm Press, and

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Speaker 4: the Firm Press people have been absolutely amazing, and it

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Speaker 4: was Martin who then met me. He loved the story

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Speaker 4: about in Indonesia. He quite rightly identified that there's not

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Speaker 4: a lot of literature about Australia and Indonesia. We tend

427
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Speaker 4: to just see the same things about Chappelle Corby and

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Speaker 4: the Bali nine and things like that. And in the book,

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Speaker 4: I tried very carefully to portray my love for Indonesia,

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Speaker 4: notwithstanding what happened. The amazing place is the amazing people,

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Speaker 4: the culture. And he said for that particular reason he

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Speaker 4: wants to get published. And the other reason he wanted

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Speaker 4: to get published was the mental health aspects of it

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Speaker 4: and my journey through that. So a Firm Press, other publishers,

435
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,679
Speaker 4: they've supported me from day one. He was very like

436
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 4: every editor. He did a good structural edit. He chopped

437
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 4: out a whole bunch of stuff which was probably superplous.

438
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,879
Speaker 4: He narrowed in on what we're probably the key the

439
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,680
Speaker 4: key issues, and one hundred and ten thousand word manuscript

440
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 4: got shruntle about eight thousand words that was a pretty

441
00:21:55,480 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 4: brutal process. And then yeah, then we got public, got

442
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 4: released on the twenty ninth of July, and I've had

443
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:08,159
Speaker 4: a huge amount of really overwhelmingly positive feedback from a

444
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 4: lot of old friends. The best thing about writing the

445
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,640
Speaker 4: book is I've reconnected with so many people that were

446
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 4: there on the day of the bombing, the plane crash.

447
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,160
Speaker 4: I've worked a b Indonesia, and they're all carrying their

448
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 4: own shit. They are all carrying this trauma, and very quickly,

449
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 4: if I wrote about someone, I shared it with them,

450
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 4: I brought them on the journey, and very quickly I

451
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,360
Speaker 4: realized why it might be my book, it's our collective story.

452
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,719
Speaker 4: And that really really gave me a lot of strength

453
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 4: because it was quite difficult times. But writing on behalf

454
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 4: of them, and really the embassy bombing and these things

455
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:47,120
Speaker 4: have largely been forgotten I think, in a wider public memory.

456
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 4: So that, yeah, that was in the end, that was

457
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 4: super super gave me the strength to actually get the

458
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,440
Speaker 4: thing published and to go out there and talk about it.

459
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 4: And a lot of them they were last night at

460
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,679
Speaker 4: my book laun one hundred and fifty people, lots of tears,

461
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 4: lots of hugs, has been so uplifting and so cathartic,

462
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:05,160
Speaker 4: not just for me but also for them.

463
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 1: And I mean in a real sense, like writing the

464
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 1: book and everything that comes from writing the book, irrespective

465
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 1: of whether or not it's a commercial success, which we

466
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 1: hope it is. But apart from that, you know, it's

467
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: got to be therapeutic for you. You know, it's cathartic.

468
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: It's like it's you sharing stuff in a way that

469
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: you were comfortable to do, and then that opens other

470
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,199
Speaker 1: doors for conversations and it's good for you. But I

471
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 1: would imagine it's therapeutic and valuable to others from a

472
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: mental and emotional health point of view as well.

473
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is.

474
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 4: And what's been really touching is a lovely lady who's

475
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 4: features in the books. She's my boss at the time,

476
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 4: Michelle Chan who's now a very single person still in

477
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 4: the Department of Foreign Afairs and Trade. She's reached out

478
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 4: and said, I want you to come and talk to

479
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 4: our staff. I want you to come and speak to

480
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 4: people in defat. Yeah, we have people that have worked

481
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 4: in and this is the thing. If one thing I

482
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 4: hope to get out of this book as well, is

483
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 4: if I can recalibrate the way they're the Australian public

484
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 4: views it's foreign service. Every day we have people in Lagos, Jakarta,

485
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 4: Baghdad doing very difficult work, very trying circumstances. Sure there

486
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 4: are cannipas and champagne in different parts of the world.

487
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 4: I do say in Paris it's a very different vibe.

488
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 4: But the public needs to understand that there's really people.

489
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 4: Really We've got people in Tel Aviv right now mentioned

490
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 4: what they're so every day, you've got diplomats around the

491
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 4: world in very trying circumstances, and we've done a very

492
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 4: bad job for Foreign Affairs has anyway in publicizing just

493
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 4: how important this work is and the bravery of these people.

494
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 4: And if I can through the book just recalibrate that

495
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 4: amongst the public, that would be a great outcome. But

496
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 4: more importantly, the department itself realizes that this is a

497
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 4: you use the word I like, that's conversation. There has

498
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 4: to be a conversation when you come back from overseas

499
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 4: you've been traumatized. You can't bury it. You have to

500
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 4: talk about it, and has to be a place with

501
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 4: which you can do that, which is welcoming, not just

502
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 4: safe but open. So I'm really pleased that I'm going

503
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 4: to have a chance to talk to staff in Canberra

504
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 4: next week about the book.

505
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: Good for you man, that's amazing. It's it interests me

506
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: like when you're talking about like the probably the typical Ossie.

507
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: I could be wrong there, but I would think most

508
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 1: Ozzies don't really fully understand what's involved in terms of

509
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: working in the foreign service and doing the things that

510
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: you do in the places and the tasks and the

511
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: roles and the risks. What's one or two things that

512
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 1: people that the average punt are like me who's getting

513
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: an education right now, might not understand or might not

514
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: think about in terms of the kind of work that

515
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: you did, and these people do.

516
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 4: I think it's the breadth of the work. And I

517
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 4: make a really important point here in the embassy in

518
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 4: Chakata we have at the time, I think it still

519
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 4: is our largest embassy, four hundred and seventy odd people,

520
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,479
Speaker 4: one hundred and eighty of those are Australia and one

521
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 4: hundred and whatever's left to whatever locally employed staff. And

522
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 4: there's two points here. One is it's not just defat

523
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 4: foreign affairs. There's diplomats, from Immigration Department, from the Australian

524
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 4: Federal Police, from the representatives across various different different agencies,

525
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 4: all working very hardly together as one team in these

526
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 4: various places to do the job, supported by a very

527
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 4: strong and very supportive and very capable locally employed staff.

528
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 4: We forget this that in all our embassies and consulates

529
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 4: around the world, there's locally employed staff from the local

530
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 4: community working for Australia and helping to forward Australia's best interests.

531
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 4: And I try to make that point in the book.

532
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 4: Our locally employed staff are probably even less recognized than

533
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 4: the Australian diplomats. So and while I say all that

534
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 4: is that it's the breadth of what we do overseas,

535
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 4: and an embassy are constantly not just doing trade negotiations

536
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 4: or helping a minister when it comes to town. In

537
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 4: any given day, your breadth to your work will be

538
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 4: meeting is different structure. I was head of the Economic Area,

539
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 4: so I businessmen that were coming to Indonesia, You're briefing

540
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 4: them on what's happening. You're trying to introduce them into

541
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 4: the right contacts into the Indonesian bureocracy. Then all of

542
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 4: a sudden, you have a trade dispute where someone's company

543
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 4: has been ripped off by another companies.

544
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 3: You're trying to mediate that.

545
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 4: Oh and by the way, the Australia just got arrested

546
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 4: for punching someone there who's now in jail. Can you

547
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 4: help go? And so every day you're getting pulled in

548
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 4: fifteen different directions. And I think the contril of work

549
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 4: is where people see most of the most of the

550
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 4: interactions with the embassy because they're traveling overseas, they've had

551
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 4: someone get sick, or someone get arrested, or in a

552
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 4: lot of cases, people die. Australians die every probably every

553
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 4: day every week in some part of the world, and

554
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 4: we're trying to facilitate the protection of that particular persons,

555
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 4: whether their body or whatever, and facilitate the family to

556
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 4: come over. And we have to be there and support

557
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 4: the families as they go through their bereavement. And so

558
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 4: it's a very much the breath of what you do

559
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 4: is so wide it's just crazy actually. And then you

560
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 4: get the as I write in a book and my

561
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 4: wife was a contral officer, you know, it's a great

562
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 4: story of these three young lads who are surfing in

563
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 4: Nias in northwestern Sumatra, and they're on a rookie boat

564
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 4: coming back ashore. The boat sinks, they lose everything, they're surfboards,

565
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 4: they're closed. The money, all the money I got, the

566
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 4: clothes in their back and they find the way back

567
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 4: to Jakata and we give them a small loan so

568
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 4: they can while we're getting a new passports organized. And

569
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 4: what do they do. They go out and blow it

570
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 4: on booze and they come back the next day and say, oh,

571
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 4: where's my next lot? You go, guys, I both a

572
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 4: largely for three days, you know, but you're trying to

573
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 4: you know this, this is the reality of being a diplomat.

574
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 4: You're managing all these different people and all their various

575
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 4: different needs and wants well at the same time trying

576
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 4: to prosecute austray as interests, whether it be trayed, whether

577
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,719
Speaker 4: it be political, whether it be military, whether it be police.

578
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 4: So look, I love the job. And one thing I

579
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 4: don't want is people to read this and go I

580
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 4: don't want to be a diplomat. I think it's one

581
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 4: of the greatest things you could ever do, is representing

582
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 4: country overseas in this amazing environment.

583
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: It's funny you say that because somebody wrote I ripped

584
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: this up. Some of this is not me. This is

585
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: some something I read about you, says Defat is unlikely

586
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: to ever use Grant dual his diplomatic experiences in a

587
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: recruitment campaign to lure Australia's rider. So, in other words,

588
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: don't fucking listen to his story. You'll never come and

589
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: work for us. So I don't think he's got to

590
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: get a tap on the shoulder for any marketing campaign

591
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: anytime soon.

592
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 4: Jam. Well, this is funny because that was the Mandarin

593
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 4: article Peter Gearen, who wrote.

594
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, very good article, by the way.

595
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, no, But it's funny because we joked about

596
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 4: this and I enjoyed the Navy in nineteen eighty two

597
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 4: and the recruitment ad was I'm trying ah year. The

598
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 4: recruitment ad ad was that you know, you'll be wet,

599
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 4: you'll be homesick and frightened, but the pride of the

600
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 4: fleet will be you. And I saw, yeah, So.

601
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 3: It's a different, different generation, is it.

602
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 4: You'll be homesick and frightens, but the pride of the

603
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 4: fleet will be you. Yeah, I mean, where do I sign?

604
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: They know what they're doing though, that's that's a little

605
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: bit of a reverse psychology. But so I want to

606
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: I'm trying to give people before we kind of head

607
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: down the home straight, an insight into as much or

608
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: as little as you want, but an insight into what

609
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: you personally found yourself in the middle of. And you've

610
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: kind of given us some insight. But I've got in

611
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: front of me that you were an active participant in

612
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: the emergency response to the terrorist attack on the two

613
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: thousand and four Strain Embassy compound which killed seven people.

614
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: Like I'm trying to for those people who are going,

615
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: you know, who's in the middle of some rough stuff,

616
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: can you, to the extent that you're comfortable with, expand

617
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: on like what did you see? What were you in

618
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: the middle of? Where did this?

619
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 4: I mean, we know where the.

620
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: Trauma came from, but can you kind of open the

621
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: door a bit why for us?

622
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think if you don't mind me, I'm just

623
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 4: going to read the very beginning of it because this

624
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 4: will give This is the best way I can describe it. Okay,

625
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 4: this is the moment the bombs.

626
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: If we don't often get the author, we don't often

627
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: get the author reading his own book to us. So

628
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: I feel privileged lively.

629
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 4: So when I wrote this, I had to try and

630
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 4: try and convey how I felt. Okay, so I've just

631
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 4: been literally I'm just about to say goodbye to someone

632
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 4: and a bomb goes off and I end up on

633
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 4: my back. And this is how I kind of describe it.

634
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 4: Deafness is a curious thing. It can be quite disconcerting.

635
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 4: Those of us who can here largely take the ability

636
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 4: the ability for granted. It's only when you lose your

637
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 4: hearing that you truly understand the dark reality that silence

638
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 4: itself can be deafening. And it's this unaccustomed silence that

639
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 4: first occupies my mind. As I lie prostrate on the floor,

640
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 4: I'm confused as to how I got here. One second,

641
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 4: I'm turning to say goodbye to Serena. The next there's

642
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 4: a loud bang, and I'm lying on the ground, gasping

643
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 4: for air, as if someone has just given me a

644
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 4: sharp jab to the soul of plexus. But as I

645
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 4: lie here, looking at the ceiling, trying to catch my breath,

646
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,479
Speaker 4: it's the silence that's most perplexing. My world is definitely silent,

647
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 4: like I'm suspended in time and space, and I sleep

648
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 4: and I dreaming, and then I'm jolded back into the

649
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 4: real world by a sharp, acrid, pungent smell, not strong

650
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 4: enough to burn my nostrils, but unpleasant enough to make

651
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 4: my eyes smart. I slowly struggle to my feet and

652
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 4: am confronted with a scene of utter bedlam. The air

653
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 4: is full of thick smoke, and I can see flames

654
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 4: in the distance through a shattered window. But as the

655
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 4: people rushing silently past me and all around me in

656
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 4: and out of the smoke that I find truly surreal.

657
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 4: I feel like an extra in some nineteen twenty silent film.

658
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 4: What the fuck is going on? Finally, the fog of

659
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 4: shot clouding my brain starts to clear, and I begin

660
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 4: to piece together the sites and the smells sailing my senses. Shit,

661
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 4: we've been bombed. Now, that was wow, that was the moment,

662
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 4: And I sell it. Gooseblaps, that's reading it.

663
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, thank you, that's heavy. That's And also tif,

664
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: I liked that we opened the swearing door, and now

665
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: he's just come jogging through with shits and fucks. So

666
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: I couldn't be proud of you, Grant, you know, in

667
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: part in part for what you've been through, but also

668
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 1: that welcome to the Swearing Podcast. Couldn't be proud use

669
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: this in your primo.

670
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 4: Well well he what flows from that to give the

671
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 4: listeners a sense is because because that was just a moment, okay,

672
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 4: And then my wife is on the same floor, so

673
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 4: I went and found her.

674
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 3: And then it's weird.

675
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 4: When I saw my wife, my head didn't kind of

676
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 4: even though I couldn't still hear very much, I've got

677
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 4: a bit of a clarity of thinking. And her boss

678
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 4: yelled in my ear to go downstairs and tell the

679
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 4: Peter in the security guard to make an evacuation announcement

680
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 4: over the PA. So I go downstairs and Pizza in

681
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 4: shock that he's swashed the whole front of the mscy

682
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 4: get crushed in front of his eyes, and he got

683
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 4: him off the floor. He then went to find his wife,

684
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 4: and while I'm waiting, I didn't know how to help

685
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 4: at the machine. The PA system some kind of actually

686
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 4: people talked about last night. There's a jar of Monte

687
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 4: Carlo sitting next to the PA system and the first

688
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 4: thing that I see is the Monte Carlos, and you

689
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,439
Speaker 4: can't get them in your carda. So I'm like, oh, okay,

690
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 4: it's opened the jar, and I take out of Monte

691
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 4: Carlo and I'm munching on this biscuit, looking at this

692
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 4: PA system that you want to And then Pete rushes

693
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 4: back in and I tell him you can you make

694
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 4: the evacuation. And as he's doing that, you can hear

695
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 4: screaming out the front. And I saw too first aid

696
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,359
Speaker 4: bags on the ground in the office, and having heard

697
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 4: the noise of people screaming and you know, whaling, I

698
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 4: grabbed those bags and went out in the front of

699
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 4: the embassy through the carnage.

700
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 3: And it was, yeah, it was It was hard that

701
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 3: you know.

702
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 4: It was just body parts and shit everywhere, and my

703
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 4: little bag of bandages was hugely insufficient to try and

704
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:54,720
Speaker 4: help in any way, shape or form, to be honest,

705
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 4: And that's the bit that scarred.

706
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 3: You're trying to you know, there's two things. I felt

707
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 3: super helpless.

708
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 4: So, as I write in a book, I once I

709
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 4: realized I couldn't help, I couldn't do anything, I got

710
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 4: quite actually sat with me for a long time, the

711
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 4: feeling of helplessness, and it was the same feeling I

712
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 4: had when I found myself two years later running down

713
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 4: the runway to a plane they're just blowing up, which

714
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 4: had my friends on board, and only they get there

715
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 4: to work out that I couldn't help them either. So this,

716
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 4: you know, both incidences, and I was the first respondent.

717
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,919
Speaker 4: But you know, there was a couple of other people

718
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 4: who joined me out the front of the embassy. A

719
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,879
Speaker 4: good friend of mine, Ken Brownrigg, who was the head

720
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 4: of the defense section, one of the best men I know.

721
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 4: He wrote me a lovely letter actually about what I

722
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 4: did on that day, and he's still carrying the trauma

723
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 4: of that as well. I caught up him last night

724
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 4: and then to go through all the Yeah, that was

725
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,280
Speaker 4: the beginning of the posting. Then we had the tsunami.

726
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 4: Then we had plane crash. The plane crash came at

727
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 4: the end. We had got caught in a right out

728
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 4: the front of the embassy with people trying to drag

729
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 4: us get a about car, and we had the day

730
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 4: to day you know, the websites that. Yeah, it was

731
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 4: just the full on grind of living there. And then

732
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 4: the final straw was this plane crash in two thousand

733
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 4: and seven where five colleagues from the embassy friends run

734
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 4: I grew to flight into jog Jakata. I was both

735
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 4: on the plane, but decided to change my flight that

736
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 4: for whatever reason I got to I said this, I

737
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 4: better go today. The backstory of this is Alexander down

738
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 4: I was in coming to it, came to Jakarta, and

739
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 4: then he was going to go to jog Jakarta the

740
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 4: next day because he was going to open a university

741
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 4: that strain and AID money been used to rebuild. I

742
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 4: was in charge of the jog Jakarta and the leg

743
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 4: got a team on the ground. He's going to meet

744
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 4: the Sultan. I was worried for some reason in the

745
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 4: afternoon the day before. I thought, well, maybe everything's not right.

746
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 4: Maybe I need to go today and not go in

747
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 4: the first thing in the morning because he was arriving

748
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 4: later in the morning and wouldn't be enough time to

749
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 4: fix anything and if there's anything wrong. So I changed

750
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,760
Speaker 4: my flight and I ran into a good friend, Morgod Malish,

751
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 4: who was the fin review reporter at the venue of

752
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 4: the conference that we're all attending, and he wanted to

753
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 4: get on that flight, and I said, look, might have

754
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 4: just canceled my ticket. I get on my flight that

755
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 4: afternoon I'm going to the airport, and he texts me

756
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 4: and says, mate, I'm I'm on the flight. It must

757
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 4: must have been your seat. Let's catch up for beers.

758
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 4: My shout blah blah blah blah blah. And then that

759
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 4: plane crashes and I'm at the airport and I ran

760
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 4: down in the runway. The thing went off the end

761
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 4: of the runway, went to a paddy field. The whole

762
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 4: front section of the plane got smashed. They all couldn't

763
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 4: get out. Cinti Bannon, one journalist, did get out. She's

764
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 4: lost the legs in the process, and her bravery to

765
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 4: be able to get herself off the plane and then

766
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 4: survive is just amazing. But the other five colleagues all perished.

767
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 4: And then I stood next that plane for three hours

768
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 4: until I could know for certain that they were not

769
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 4: in one of the surrounding hospitals. But once it was

770
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,399
Speaker 4: obvious they were on a plane, I just didn't want

771
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 4: to leave those bodies until I knew this strain fiddle,

772
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 4: police or someone was there that could actually put them

773
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 4: in proper care and custody. So it was just at

774
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 4: a long street three hours of my life nearly wow.

775
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 4: So that was the beginning and the end. So and

776
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 4: then I buried a lot of stuff for he is

777
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 4: a surprise. Surprise, I had a panic attack. Yeah, so

778
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 4: that's the and the hence the book.

779
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't. I mean, like many psychological and mental

780
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 1: and emotional challenges, there's no three step plan, right. It's

781
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: not like, oh, this is the best way to deal

782
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: with grief. Here's the three steps. Just follow these or

783
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 1: this is how you get or overcome this. You're probably

784
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: not going to overcome it, so you'll just navigate it.

785
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: Or same with food, same with exercise, same with building

786
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: a business. Like there's no best, like this is a

787
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: thing that we're always learning. And we talk about this

788
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: a lot, the idea of an equals one, you know,

789
00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: the U experiment or the U experience, you know, the

790
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: U project, which is you're always trying to figure out

791
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: what's what's going to work for me, what's going to

792
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: work for me from my mind, for my body, for

793
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:15,919
Speaker 1: my relationships, for my sanity, because you know, we talk about,

794
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: you know, even doing what we're doing now. So sitting

795
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: on a podcast, you know, I'm in my studio just

796
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: chatting to.

797
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 4: You, and.

798
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: It's it's enjoyable. It's fun, it's interesting. I would guess

799
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 1: my heart rates about sixty, my blood pressure is low.

800
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,399
Speaker 1: Everything's good. But for someone else sitting in this chair

801
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: doing this would be fucking terrifying and the worst job

802
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: of all time, you know what I mean. And so

803
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: it's I think, it's trying to figure out how do

804
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: I do this? What works for me? And you know,

805
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: it's funny that you kind of buried that for a

806
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: while and then one day your body went and UT,

807
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 1: we're going to deal with it. Doesn't matter if you

808
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: want to or not.

809
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think, and this is the thing I want

810
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 4: to talk to and I do have that opportunity to

811
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,839
Speaker 4: talk to the other defat staff. And to be quite frank,

812
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 4: it's what I said to my staff. I've been a

813
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 4: CEO of to companies since then, and this experience is

814
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 4: informed and now the way I'm dealing with my staff

815
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 4: for a start, you know, I mean my previous job.

816
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,399
Speaker 4: And you know, crisis crisis, I said, Has anyone died?

817
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: No?

818
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,919
Speaker 3: Well, okay, let's get perspective. It's not a crisis. Okay.

819
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,400
Speaker 4: So it's given me tools to be able to manage

820
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 4: other people. And I think the most important tool and

821
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 4: I'm working with a mate from my navy days. He's

822
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 4: got a company called Ordinary Courage, and his training manages

823
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 4: how to identify trauma before even before that person, that

824
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 4: staff member maybe even know they've got the trauma or

825
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 4: the mental health that you can see generally beak and

826
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 4: you can see if you watch your team around you,

827
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 4: if you know them well enough, you can see where

828
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 4: they're on a certain trajectory. They get cranky, they kind

829
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 4: of work late, certain things change, And how do we

830
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 4: train managers to step in inappropriate time, in the appropriate

831
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 4: way to start the conversation. And I go back to

832
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 4: that word conversation. It's not about you know, I can

833
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 4: fix you touched on it. Everyone will have their own

834
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 4: measure and way they'll fix or deal with You might

835
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 4: not even be able to fix it or manage it.

836
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 4: But how do you start a conversation with someone so

837
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 4: they can start thinking about it and start exploring and

838
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 4: start talking and then through that journey hopefully identify what

839
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 4: they need to do to try and and manage whatever

840
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 4: the issue is that they're dealing with. That's that's impacting

841
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 4: the mental health. That for me, it was my son

842
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 4: giving me a book I've never been one to read,

843
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 4: you know, I didn't think I needed to read a

844
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 4: book about mental health.

845
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 3: The best thing that's ever done was he gave me

846
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 3: that book.

847
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: Well, good on him for doing that. I think also too,

848
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: like when you've been through what you've been through, which

849
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: is at the at the far end of the hard experience, trauma, drama,

850
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: you know, like it's right up the end of the scale,

851
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: and then sometimes you're in another so then fast forward

852
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: and now you've gotten through that, still working on it,

853
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 1: but you've gotten through it. Now you're in a different situation,

854
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:02,439
Speaker 1: different environment. It must be hard, I guess sometimes when

855
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: people are running around going, oh my god, oh it's

856
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: such a massive problem, and in context of what you've

857
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: been through, you must feel like, go and shut the

858
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: fuck up. That's not even that's not even a bit

859
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 1: of a problem. You know, that's just fucking Tuesday before ten. Shush.

860
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: But you can't do that because if it's a big

861
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: deal to them, it's a big deal, right.

862
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's even hit the nailrod on their head.

863
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: You know.

864
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 4: I have to admit that there were periods there, you know,

865
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 4: I kind of had that. Yeah, you kind of think,

866
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:37,919
Speaker 4: can we put context around this police people.

867
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:43,959
Speaker 3: What I found and my staff who worked me, particularly.

868
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 4: My last role as the breakthrough storry, what particularly my

869
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 4: executive seeing what they all said was great is that

870
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 4: because I shared with them my story and while I

871
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 4: was writing the book and things like that, it gave

872
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 4: them a position to actually put them perspective something they're doing.

873
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,919
Speaker 4: And everyone is carrying shit at any given point in time.

874
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 4: It's just different shit, you know. And really the opportunity

875
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 4: and they would say to me, Grant, I know, you

876
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,399
Speaker 4: get this, I need to take some time off for blah. Mate,

877
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 4: I'd rather be at work for productivity, had they having

878
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 4: had a good night's sleep with your mind rested, and

879
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,439
Speaker 4: rather than coming in you know, twenty thirty percent every

880
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 4: day because you're managing this stuff at home that you

881
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 4: haven't got enough time to deal with because you're coming

882
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 4: into work. You know, this whole idea that I remember

883
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 4: during COVID. Look like I can't come in today because

884
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 4: you know, my son's got COVID, so I'll work online. No, mate,

885
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 4: if your son's got COVID, you don't work online. You're

886
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 4: looking after your son. So so that these are these

887
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 4: are where managers have a role to play, I think,

888
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 4: particularly you know, senior managers have a role to play.

889
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 4: They set the example and to try and identify and

890
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 4: work with staff. Because the reason I didn't talk about

891
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 4: it for so long in Foreign Affairs was because I

892
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 4: was worried that if I was seen as a victim,

893
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 4: I wouldn't get my next posting Grant Duley, he's been traumatized,

894
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 4: you know, we probably can't set him away again because

895
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 4: who knows what will happen. And that was the fear

896
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 4: of being a victim, is why I buried it. And

897
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 4: I just wish now I'd had the strength to actually

898
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 4: challenge that because I can still work. I've got on

899
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 4: a successful career in finance, so I've done all these

900
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 4: various things just because I've learned how to manage it

901
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,879
Speaker 4: and learned how to deal with it well.

902
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: In many ways, obviously we wish you didn't go through it,

903
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 1: but in many ways you probably a better more evolved

904
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: person of you, the version of you, than you would

905
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 1: have been had you not been through it, in terms

906
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 1: of your ability to empathize and understand and your insight

907
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 1: into the human experience and pain and emotions and mental

908
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,839
Speaker 1: health and all of that. Hey, mate, it's been great.

909
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 1: We've got to wind up. But the book everyone has

910
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: called bomb Season in Jakarta. Grant Durley, son of Hooley,

911
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,879
Speaker 1: it's out. That's for utif, that's for youtif, and I'm.

912
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 4: Sure I get that a bit if. Don't worry about it.

913
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: Fucking eighty thousand million times a day. The books. The

914
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: book's been out for a couple of weeks ago, by

915
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: nineteen copies for Christmas. Is it coming out in audio

916
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 1: at any stage?

917
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 4: Or is that out?

918
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 3: Yeah? In about I think in early September it comes

919
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 3: out as an audiobook.

920
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 1: Perfect, mate, Well say goodbye a fair but well done you.

921
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 1: Congrats on your first book. It sounds amazing. Appreciate your

922
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: service for all the things that you've done, and congrats

923
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: on coming through what you've come through and being a

924
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: fucking inspiring human. I love it. I think you're great,

925
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for being on you project.

926
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,320
Speaker 4: And thank you Craig for having me and providing a platform.

927
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 4: And actually, I'll have to listen to those other thousands

928
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 4: you've done now because I think they must be pretty

929
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 4: damn interesting. I love it, and I really appreciate the

930
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 4: opportunity to be a part of it and to meet

931
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 4: you too, Tiff, and yeah, good luck and continue doing

932
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 4: the good work. I think people this is another platform,

933
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 4: but this helps me. This is therapy, you know, and

934
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 4: if you're providing that platform, then they all strength to you.

935
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 1: Thanks, mate, will say goodbye Fair but for the moment, grant,

936
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: thank you, tips, thank you, thanks lads.

937
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 3: Okay, cheers