Speaker 1: Pray, Anthony Harfer, Tiffany and Cork Heierie is happy Wednesday, sir.
Speaker 2: Thanks Bro, Thanks Bryce Sephine. That are you good? I'm great.
Speaker 1: I just had a great sparring session with someone with
Speaker 1: two percent vision, so that was that was the highlight
Speaker 1: of my day.
Speaker 2: That's like the perfect opponent. How do you walk us
Speaker 2: through that a little bit? How does one spa with
Speaker 2: somebody who can't see? Do you have bells on your gloves?
Speaker 1: Well, here's the deal, I thought to myself. I haven't
Speaker 1: sparred since last year, inspard, I've barely picked up the
Speaker 1: boxing gloves, to be honest. So I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: not really, you know I've been doing it. But yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: if there's anyone I'll say yes to, it's a blind guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, reason, we'll shout out to our vision impeded listeners.
Speaker 2: And if you think just being insensitive, she.
Speaker 1: Is, well no, right, I thought, well this, you know,
Speaker 1: this be too dangerous. I did put a mouthguard in though,
Speaker 1: but nothing quite sticks to you like shit to a
Speaker 1: blanket than someone that can't see but has keen other senses.
Speaker 1: I could not shake that bugger. It was right there.
Speaker 1: In fact, there was only one time I was quiet
Speaker 1: enough to sneak around and he was like like a ninja,
Speaker 1: going where is she? The rest of the time. He's
Speaker 1: right that the rest of the time you would not
Speaker 1: if you were watching on you wouldn't know you were
Speaker 1: watching one vision impaired person sparring.
Speaker 2: I mean, could you try to explain it to us?
Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out how does so he's not
Speaker 2: a boxer, right.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, So this is They've got an event
Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks. It's up in Queensland. It's
Speaker 1: a bunch of podcasters actually, and they wanted to find
Speaker 1: two blind podcasters to have this fight at this event, and.
Speaker 2: That just seems that sounds cruel.
Speaker 1: They could find one, so they've made it even more crazy.
Speaker 1: They're putting seven blokes in the ring, six of them
Speaker 1: being blindfolded, and Benny, who's two percent vision, and they're
Speaker 1: just gonna let him go for gold. So he brings
Speaker 1: me up a week ago and goes, I haven't actually
Speaker 1: done any sparring. Could you punch me in the face?
Speaker 1: And I said sure, sure, think sure. Think he was
Speaker 1: really good, actually really good. There's I think that there
Speaker 1: is a lot that can be an advantage about not
Speaker 1: having vision when you're learning things with your other senses.
Speaker 1: When you're like his hair, his gloves are stuck to
Speaker 1: his face, he's not getting you know, when our eyes
Speaker 1: go places, it affects our balance. Just there's a lot
Speaker 1: of information coming in when you're boxing. You're moving, you're watching,
Speaker 1: you're protecting, you're feeling things, you're seeing things, depth, perception,
Speaker 1: all of that stuff. His head doesn't lift twenty punches
Speaker 1: because he's not following his eyes anywhere, so he stays down,
Speaker 1: he holds. It's really good. Actually, what's super impressed.
Speaker 2: Now, if you're in any way trying to convince the
Speaker 2: listeners and I that there's some kind of fucking advantage
Speaker 2: to not being able to see when you're boxing, you're
Speaker 2: doing a terrible job because none of us believe you.
Speaker 2: That's the worst bloody sales pitch.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 2: Look, he's got a real advantage because he's got amazing,
Speaker 2: you know, senses. You know what's good sense for boxing.
Speaker 2: Been able to fucking see the glove coming at you. Fuck,
Speaker 2: that's hilarious. Well good on him, shout out to Benny.
Speaker 2: But also I'm thinking, I'm guessing this is not a
Speaker 2: sanctioned event seven blindfolded or six blindfolded people and a
Speaker 2: blind bloke in a ring throwing cut lunches. That just
Speaker 2: seems like something from Bloody what's that stupid show where
Speaker 2: they all used to do crazy things? You know, all
Speaker 2: those guys. Ah, you know there was a whole show Jackass.
Speaker 2: Oh Jackass. That's just an episode of Jackass.
Speaker 1: Well it's going to be doing it in front of
Speaker 1: five thousand people in the audience.
Speaker 2: So I don't know how they get insurance for that
Speaker 2: or how they get that sanction. That just seems like
Speaker 2: me personally, I'm like, fuck yeah, let's do that every weekend.
Speaker 1: Well, the thing that concerns me the most is the
Speaker 1: advantage to wearing punches when you're boxing is you see
Speaker 1: them and you learn how to wear them, and you
Speaker 1: don't get punched from behind or you see them coming,
Speaker 1: so you're absorbing them properly. And there's going to be
Speaker 1: seven blokes in the ring. People are going to get
Speaker 1: punched in the back of the head. They're going to
Speaker 1: be frantically swinging punches and thus wearing them when they
Speaker 1: can't be seen, and that's very in my opinion, it's
Speaker 1: possible to be quite a bit more dangerous. But I
Speaker 1: was very.
Speaker 2: Impressing about that. Nothing about that that's a good idea.
Speaker 2: It's hilarious, hilarious, but from somebody who studies the brain, somewhat,
Speaker 2: I can tell you, if you want to make your
Speaker 2: brain work worse, just shut your eyes and let people
Speaker 2: hit you in the head.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you know what's interesting is I was having
Speaker 1: a quick chat with him afterwards, just about the idea
Speaker 1: of people white people are mean, Like he's got two
Speaker 1: percent visions. So I was saying to him, I'd give
Speaker 1: anything to to come to just pop in to see
Speaker 1: what you see for a moment, because I'm curious, but
Speaker 1: so many people Because he sees dark, So he looked around,
Speaker 1: he goes, I can't see the ring. I can't see anything.
Speaker 1: All that's black. And then he looked up and there's
Speaker 1: a high ceiling with a beam of light that comes in.
Speaker 1: He goes, I can see like a lighter line across there.
Speaker 1: And then he turned to another war and he said,
Speaker 1: and this over here looks a bit lighter, so he
Speaker 1: can see bits of light. Yeah, And I said, you know,
Speaker 1: when I walk in, he's sitting at a table in
Speaker 1: front of a computer, tinkering on a laptop, and I'm like, dude,
Speaker 1: I'm here to spar the blind guy like who are you? Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: And the people that get angry and mean because they're like,
Speaker 1: you're not blind and get aggressive about it, and it's
Speaker 1: isn't that interesting human behavior?
Speaker 2: Human? But well, I think that's my life in your life,
Speaker 2: isn't it. I mean, yeah, I've been studying it in
Speaker 2: one way or another for my entire life. And I'm,
Speaker 2: you know, ten minutes away from finishing my whole kitten
Speaker 2: kaboodle at UNI, and I still don't fucking know how
Speaker 2: humans work. And I still people still, you know, you're
Speaker 2: never going to know. Like the human condition is what
Speaker 2: makes somebody kind and generous and loving and compassionate to
Speaker 2: a stranger that they'll never us see again. Like I
Speaker 2: love that, And like we have all ends of the spectrum.
Speaker 2: We have people that are complete, you know, sociopaths and
Speaker 2: psychopaths and manipulative narcissists to do anything to get anything,
Speaker 2: and will lie and cannive and can be charismatic and
Speaker 2: charming and full of shit. And then yeah, the people
Speaker 2: at the other end and the people in between and
Speaker 2: the you know, it's like it's yeah, I don't think
Speaker 2: there's an answer to that question, but I think some
Speaker 2: people seem to. You know, what's it called there, there's
Speaker 2: a name for it. It's called something like shadan freuden
Speaker 2: or something. I'll look at it, but it's basically a
Speaker 2: German word for this concept that people take delight in
Speaker 2: other people's pain. Yeah, yeah, and it's that's it's it's
Speaker 2: a thing. I only learned the term the other day
Speaker 2: and I can't remember it. I need to That's funny.
Speaker 2: I need to use things, you know, Like when I
Speaker 2: learned something, I'm like, I've got to teach that in
Speaker 2: the next day or two or three. And then if
Speaker 2: I teach it a few times, then it gets him bettered.
Speaker 2: Then I pretty much never forget it, but until it's
Speaker 2: locked in there. But yeah, so well, good for him,
Speaker 2: and I hope he comes out without any brain damage.
Speaker 2: And how is he doing? The computer thing? By the way,
Speaker 2: does it talk to him or something to it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it talks to him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's basically chat JPT.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It just always makes me think when you interact with people.
Speaker 1: That always makes me think about everything we take for granted,
Speaker 1: which sounds a cliche, but you know, I'd jump in
Speaker 1: the car and I drive home, and then I think
Speaker 1: about he had to get a taxi there, and you
Speaker 1: get to taxi back, and then I've got to send
Speaker 1: I'm sending him some photos and he will never get
Speaker 1: to see those photos. He's going to put it on
Speaker 1: social media, and like, so he's in this same world
Speaker 1: we're living in. His world is so different, Yes, And
Speaker 1: we don't build it and not just for blind people,
Speaker 1: for all sorts of people. We don't build it for
Speaker 1: everyone else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's yeah, it an't built for people who
Speaker 2: aren't in you know, in inverted commas typical.
Speaker 1: I guess you know you're really inspired by you know,
Speaker 1: that's two blind people I've been involved with now that
Speaker 1: are doing like crazy stuff despite their limitation, like we
Speaker 1: had Ben Felt both Ben's by the way, Ben Felton,
Speaker 1: who wanted to be the fastest man on a motorcycle
Speaker 1: and ride a motorcycle fastest blind man. Sorry, And it's
Speaker 1: just like, I think that's so inspiring when people because
Speaker 1: people like that just I think of them often and go, well,
Speaker 1: if they can, yeah.
Speaker 2: Isn't it funny though, the number of people Tiffany and
Speaker 2: Cook who have a disability and or they don't have
Speaker 2: a disability, then something happens, then they get a disability,
Speaker 2: or they acquire whatever it is, and then all of
Speaker 2: a sudden they start doing all this amazing shit when
Speaker 2: they've actually got less capacity than they had before the
Speaker 2: injury or the accident or the illness, but now they're
Speaker 2: doing ten times more than they ever did. And it's
Speaker 2: not because all of a sudden they've got more talent
Speaker 2: or more physical ability, or but it's because they've got
Speaker 2: a totally different mindset. And isn't it a pity that
Speaker 2: so many of us wait until something fucking diabolical happens
Speaker 2: before we think, oh, geez, I wonder what I could do.
Speaker 2: I wonder how much progress or what I could achieve
Speaker 2: if I just fucking let go of all the bullshit
Speaker 2: and dive in. And if I fail, I fail. If
Speaker 2: I win, If it's painful, it's painful. If it's good,
Speaker 2: it's good. But it's like it seems, and I'm generalizing,
Speaker 2: but it seems that a lot of people who end
Speaker 2: up in a situation that they didn't choose or want
Speaker 2: some of them become almost fucking superhuman because I don't
Speaker 2: know why, like the fear goes or the maybe it's
Speaker 2: just that we have a shift or they have a
Speaker 2: shift in awareness or perspective and go, oh fucking hell,
Speaker 2: I'm not here for a long time. I'm here for
Speaker 2: a good time. Why don't I fucking jump in.
Speaker 1: M I think I think about that heaps in terms
Speaker 1: of all the answers that we're all seeking, Like we're
Speaker 1: learning and we're seeking, and we're evolving, and we're trying
Speaker 1: to grasp this thing like it's all still, like life
Speaker 1: is still, and the answers of this thing, and then
Speaker 1: I'll apply them. And by the time I apply them,
Speaker 1: by the time you start to apply something, you've already changed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 1: Even the same person with the same circumstances or emotions
Speaker 1: or feelings or maybe even values.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the thing that is really important to you
Speaker 2: when you're let's just say twenty, might be completely irrelevant
Speaker 2: when you're thirty or when you're forty two year old Tiff,
Speaker 2: and you go, fuck, you know what I want? I
Speaker 2: want this, and then you work your ass off and
Speaker 2: you get it and you go, ah, I don't know,
Speaker 2: maybe that wasn't it, or maybe or maybe that's nirvana,
Speaker 2: or you know, it's the old You get to the
Speaker 2: top of the mountain and you're like, mah, fuck, I
Speaker 2: climbed the wrong mountain, or this is good, but oh,
Speaker 2: look at that mountain over there. Then you climb that
Speaker 2: when you're like, this is a bit better, but fuck,
Speaker 2: look at that. And you know, because I think, like,
Speaker 2: we grow up and I know we've spoken about this before,
Speaker 2: but we grow up in this kind of model of
Speaker 2: thinking that says successes about external things. And so when
Speaker 2: you get that thing or change that thing, or own
Speaker 2: that thing, or people can see that trophy or see
Speaker 2: how many followers craigscot or Tiff Scott's or or you know,
Speaker 2: Craig's biceps or TIFF's fucking whatever, whatever it is, right,
Speaker 2: and then you achieve it or create it or do
Speaker 2: it or change it. And then you're like, oh, I'm
Speaker 2: still a bit sad, I'm still a bit I've still
Speaker 2: got shit self esteem, or I'm still overthinking, or I'm
Speaker 2: still I still feel like there's some kind of emotional
Speaker 2: and or psychological whole or I feel disconnected, or and
Speaker 2: then I go, oh, maybe it's maybe I need to
Speaker 2: be more jacked, or maybe I need a bigger house,
Speaker 2: or you know, it's like we have these stories that
Speaker 2: these external things are going to create these internal outcomes
Speaker 2: that I don't think they generally do.
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about it heaps lately, and I feel
Speaker 1: like with a lot of the people I'm around and
Speaker 1: having conversations with are in this state of busyness and
Speaker 1: a bit of burnout. So I'm having a lots of
Speaker 1: conversations around that. And because I've made such a massive,
Speaker 1: overdue effort in stopping that myself, because I'm just a
Speaker 1: product of that of working seven days week for god
Speaker 1: knows how many years now seven days and you know,
Speaker 1: always happening to happening that word again, always having.
Speaker 2: To drive it's bad happening, khaf e n happening.
Speaker 1: Thanks for drawing my attention to that. And Nevern you
Speaker 1: always said it.
Speaker 2: All words, You've got to start somewhere. So let's let's go.
Speaker 2: It's twenty twenty five, it's sixteenth of April. Let's push
Speaker 2: that motherfucker out of the literary nest, and we'll accredit it,
Speaker 2: will credit it to you. Tea Cook happening. That's now,
Speaker 2: it's a thing. Now it's it. It's a word. It's like,
Speaker 2: it's right up there with somethink.
Speaker 1: Well it's a real tazzy word.
Speaker 2: Somethink, somethink.
Speaker 1: Just ask my friends, just asks. Yeah, start, just.
Speaker 2: Ask my friend about something. And if you don't, it
Speaker 2: won't be happening anyway anyway.
Speaker 1: So I'm really conscious, and I'm really conscious of the
Speaker 1: people around me that might still be having the conversations
Speaker 1: I was, or you know, wearing the busy badge or
Speaker 1: oh it's really busy, or stressing or frantic for a
Speaker 1: couple of people that have come up against healthy issues
Speaker 1: in the middle of that, and watching how hard it
Speaker 1: is to still make the choice and realize that, like
Speaker 1: to pull yourself out of that, out of it. I've
Speaker 1: got to I'm busy, I've got to make more money,
Speaker 1: I've got to do more things. I've got to produce,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I get it, because I feel in
Speaker 1: me what drives me towards that. But there's the experience
Speaker 1: of something, and then there's the knowledge of wanting of
Speaker 1: that not really being a reality, it's just a story.
Speaker 1: And then there's the trying to move yourself to live
Speaker 1: a little bit differently, and it takes time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think it's also part of
Speaker 2: it is about getting there's so many facets this, but
Speaker 2: getting clear about what you want and what you don't want,
Speaker 2: and why you want that thing and why you don't
Speaker 2: want that other thing. Right. And I've had a lot
Speaker 2: of conversations lately with people about and I know we're
Speaker 2: revisiting this old chestnut, but metacognition, you know, thinking about
Speaker 2: how I think and how you think and all of
Speaker 2: that stuff, like starting to become aware of the so
Speaker 2: many people at the moment are so fucking emotional about
Speaker 2: what they think about Donald Trump, or what they think
Speaker 2: about Anthony Albanezi, or what they think about the carnivore
Speaker 2: diet or what they think. And it's like, I understand
Speaker 2: that you don't think like me or agree with me,
Speaker 2: or you do agree and you do you know, either
Speaker 2: way all good. But do we have to hate everyone
Speaker 2: who doesn't think like us? Do we have to call
Speaker 2: everyone a fuck with that likes Donald Trump or hates
Speaker 2: Donald Trump? Or do we have to like do we
Speaker 2: need to be so vitriolic and so nasty? Does it
Speaker 2: and by the way, does it move the needle, does
Speaker 2: it help? Does it improve anything? Is it creating good outcomes?
Speaker 2: Is making people feel better or do better? Like it's
Speaker 2: I understand there's always going to be divergence of opinion
Speaker 2: and idea and belief in philosophy and behavior, of course,
Speaker 2: but it's like, Okay, you're a Muslim, I'm an atheist,
Speaker 2: tips a Catholic, old mates, a Buddhist or whatever whatever
Speaker 2: it is. Hey, let's all have dinner and not talk
Speaker 2: about any of that shit and let's just hang out
Speaker 2: like or let you know, it's like, we don't need
Speaker 2: to try to convince other people that what we think
Speaker 2: is the thing that everybody should think. But that seems
Speaker 2: to be a lot of what happened in some areas
Speaker 2: of social media, where it's just people screaming at each
Speaker 2: other who all have a different opinion. You know, I
Speaker 2: did that. I think I might have even done it
Speaker 2: with you that On the Fence episode a while ago,
Speaker 2: we're talking about the beauty of like, you know, people
Speaker 2: tell you you've got to get off the fence. I'm like, no,
Speaker 2: you don't, because what they're saying is you need to
Speaker 2: pick a side. Well fuck your sides. I don't want
Speaker 2: to be on a side because I don't want to
Speaker 2: be in your group. I don't want to be in
Speaker 2: their group. I don't want to be in a fucking group.
Speaker 2: I want to just think for myself, and if it
Speaker 2: happens to align with what you think or they think,
Speaker 2: that's cool. But I'm still not in a group with you,
Speaker 2: because the problem is that once we are in these groups,
Speaker 2: these philosophical, religious, nutritional, political, sociological groups, whatever, now you're
Speaker 2: part of the group. Now you need to align with
Speaker 2: the group to stay in the group, which means you
Speaker 2: have this drive to belong and this drive to align.
Speaker 2: So now you can't be critical of anything, which means
Speaker 2: you can't think critically because you are more interested in
Speaker 2: staying a member of the group than actually telling people
Speaker 2: or actually being true to your own thinking and ability
Speaker 2: to critically decide or what is or isn't for you. Now,
Speaker 2: there are many things that I think like I might
Speaker 2: be in the middle of a situation where people are
Speaker 2: talking about something that I think is bullshit, and I
Speaker 2: won't nod my head and agree with them, But I
Speaker 2: have enough awareness and social intelligence to know that if
Speaker 2: in the middle of all of this, I go, I
Speaker 2: think you're all full of shit. I think you're wrong.
Speaker 2: This is what I think is right, and that may
Speaker 2: be what I'm thinking, but I'm definitely not going to
Speaker 2: say that, not because I'm scared, but because it won't help.
Speaker 2: It won't change anything. Nobody's going to go Nobody who
Speaker 2: thinks something diametrically opposed to me is going to go, Oh,
Speaker 2: that's the really good point, Craig, I am wrong. Thanks
Speaker 2: for pointing that out right. It doesn't happen. And by
Speaker 2: the way, I don't know that I'm right. I just
Speaker 2: have a different opinion to you. And this idea that
Speaker 2: or this, uh what's the word this in lack of
Speaker 2: capacity for people to be able to go, look, I
Speaker 2: really think this, but I could be wrong, Like people
Speaker 2: seem to have an aversion to no, fuck you and
Speaker 2: fuck that group and where it's like, geez, do you not?
Speaker 2: I get shit wrong all the time, and I'm and
Speaker 2: I think about this stuff a lot, and I'm mildly educated.
Speaker 2: I'm mildly I do a lot of research and thinking
Speaker 2: and exploring, and I still get half the shit wrong.
Speaker 2: So why do you think you couldn't be wrong? And
Speaker 2: this is the problem, is that that you get all
Speaker 2: of these echo chambers where everyone whatever it is, they
Speaker 2: think there. I don't even know if I've answered your question.
Speaker 2: I've completely diverted the conversation. I'm aware, but to me,
Speaker 2: that's just it's a bit sad. It's a bit sad
Speaker 2: that we think we're the smartest species, but we're so
Speaker 2: fucking stupid and ignorant so much of the time, and
Speaker 2: we do so much that hurts so many people, and
Speaker 2: we can't just and I know this sounds naff, and
Speaker 2: I know it's never going to happen, but imagine if
Speaker 2: people were just more concerned with being loving and kind.
Speaker 2: Doesn't mean to everyone all the time, but just where
Speaker 2: you went, Like, I just met with this Should I say?
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter, I I won't say. But I just
Speaker 2: met with this person who needed some help. Literally, I
Speaker 2: came straight. I left the cafe at twenty two past one,
Speaker 2: and you and I were on it half past one.
Speaker 2: And at the end it was someone who asked for
Speaker 2: and I can't be everything for everyone, so please don't
Speaker 2: send me an email. But they said what do I
Speaker 2: owe you? And I went nothing, And I'm like it's
Speaker 2: all good. And they they're like, why would you do that?
Speaker 2: And I literally go, because I've got some skills and
Speaker 2: knowledge that you need and you need help. And they're like,
Speaker 2: I do, but but why would you do it for nothing?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, it's kind of sad that people are
Speaker 2: blown away when someone will genuinely just help them where
Speaker 2: there's no hook, catch agenda, it's not strategic. And I
Speaker 2: go because, well, one, you need the help, and I
Speaker 2: know I can help you a little bit and it's
Speaker 2: my pleasure see you later. But you know that's why
Speaker 2: I've said to you, and I've said on this show,
Speaker 2: I'll shut up after this. Like, if you've got two
Speaker 2: or three of those people in your life that are
Speaker 2: just there for you no matter what, all the time,
Speaker 2: even when you're being a fucking idiot, which is going
Speaker 2: to be regularly because you're a human. If you've got
Speaker 2: three people in your life that just would show up
Speaker 2: for you and be there for you, then I think
Speaker 2: you're doing great, which sounds kind of pessimistic, but I
Speaker 2: just think finding those no matter what, people who love
Speaker 2: you inside out, and they'll probably tell you when you're
Speaker 2: being a dickhead as well. But that's okay, Like those
Speaker 2: people are a gift I love.
Speaker 1: I actually love that idea of being on the fence.
Speaker 1: I think I feel like you might have done a
Speaker 1: solo on that. I don't think I lived that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's the smartest space to be pulsion
Speaker 2: that we have. Sorry, I'll shut up after this. Don't
Speaker 2: send me an email and know I'm talking too much.
Speaker 2: But where we tell people they've got to pick a side,
Speaker 2: let me tell you don't. You don't. In fact, there's
Speaker 2: probably better to not pick a side.
Speaker 1: I reckon. I've landed there a lot more with in
Speaker 1: recent times. Again, I've come back there. I've come back
Speaker 1: to the fence in a lot of things and then
Speaker 1: just got to the point where go Then when you
Speaker 1: sit on the fence, you go, Okay, Now, how much
Speaker 1: of my time and energy is warranted by even thinking
Speaker 1: about it? You know, it's it's hard. I might just
Speaker 1: park that whole thing. Because it's when I first became
Speaker 1: old enough to vote, I was always so aware of
Speaker 1: so I when I want to learn something, when I'm
Speaker 1: interested in something, I kind of I'm really curious. I
Speaker 1: want to learn it pretty deeply, and if it's not
Speaker 1: in that bucket. It's in that I don't give a
Speaker 1: fuck and I won't listen and I'll learn bucket. When
Speaker 1: I became old enough to vote, I was like, I
Speaker 1: am so aware that the implications of making decisions are
Speaker 1: have go far beyond my knowledge, and I don't think
Speaker 1: people reflect on that. I don't people think people think
Speaker 1: past their immediate circumstances to all of the knock on
Speaker 1: effects of the decisions that are made, beyond what might
Speaker 1: just sound good or feel good or be good for
Speaker 1: them and their family.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Well, Also, when you think back, just to
Speaker 2: our notion that you started with the being on the fence,
Speaker 2: I actually visualize me on a fence and there's hundreds
Speaker 2: or thousands of people on one side and thousands on
Speaker 2: the other. Now, when I'm on the fence, seither literally
Speaker 2: or metaphorically, I have a perspective that none of them
Speaker 2: do because they are all compartmentalized. They're all in this
Speaker 2: group or that group. I'm not in your fucking group.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be in your group. And I'm
Speaker 2: not better and I'm not worse. I'm just not you know,
Speaker 2: it might happen that we land on the same beliefs,
Speaker 2: and that's cool, but there'll be other things that I
Speaker 2: totally disagree with you on. You know, this is funny.
Speaker 2: A couple of days ago, maybe it was yesterday other
Speaker 2: day before I had Zoe Daniels on the Oh you
Speaker 2: were there, and you know what I found funny I said,
Speaker 2: to full disclosure to our listeners, I said to Zoe
Speaker 2: before we started, I'm about as political as a mockus,
Speaker 2: and so this is not going to be some fucking
Speaker 2: hard hitting political interrogation. So breathe easy, champ, you know.
Speaker 2: And I think she probably went, oh, yeah, sure, And
Speaker 2: then it proceeded to me exactly what I said it
Speaker 2: was going to be, And it just so happens that
Speaker 2: she's a politician and I'm a podcaster and a researcher
Speaker 2: and a speaker, and it was two people talking. It
Speaker 2: wasn't a political conversation at all. And my perspective was
Speaker 2: I've interviewed hardly any politicians a couple Senator Jackie Lambish. Right.
Speaker 2: But here's what's funny. Three people since have said to
Speaker 2: me something like, either I'm pretty surprised you interviewed her,
Speaker 2: or why would you give her any airtime? And I'm like,
Speaker 2: people are funny, aren't they. And I couldn't even I
Speaker 2: couldn't even be fucked. I'm like, I didn't want to go,
Speaker 2: oh really, you know, and I'm like, cool, you know.
Speaker 2: And then someone else kell that, you know, she sent
Speaker 2: a message and went, she's amazing. I love that. A
Speaker 2: few other people went, oh, wow, like I've never heard
Speaker 2: of her, she's great. Couple of other people went glad
Speaker 2: you got her on, right, but it's so funny that, well,
Speaker 2: why'd you get it?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 2: I got her on because she's a human and I
Speaker 2: wanted to talk to her. And if she thinks what
Speaker 2: I think, or doesn't think what I think, or we
Speaker 2: have the same or different or whatever, it's all okay.
Speaker 2: It's like, I don't want to get a version of
Speaker 2: me on the show every day, but just to be
Speaker 2: able to have a conversation with somebody. Yeah, A few
Speaker 2: people got their nose out of joint because I interviewed her,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, wow, it says way more about you
Speaker 2: than her.
Speaker 1: That is just so so interesting, because I think I thought,
Speaker 1: I thought to myself, I'd never heard of Zoe Daniel.
Speaker 1: And I got to the end of that and I
Speaker 1: think I said to you she was. I really enjoyed that.
Speaker 1: She was really nice, but also her work as a
Speaker 1: foreign correspondent and the stuff she's done in her life
Speaker 1: makes it to me makes her really interesting. Yes, and
Speaker 1: I'm kind of really interested in what sort of a
Speaker 1: human it takes to want to be in the political
Speaker 1: space at all, like whether she's on which side of
Speaker 1: the fucking fence or fences?
Speaker 2: She said, Oh, I'm with you. I I have zero
Speaker 2: interest in being a politician. I think it's the worst.
Speaker 2: I think it's the worst fucking job of all time.
Speaker 2: You know, it's I think, fuck that. But anyway, but yeah,
Speaker 2: it was I was a little bit surprised. And one
Speaker 2: person that I know quite well and it was like,
Speaker 2: though I didn't say, but they pretty much said, I'm
Speaker 2: disappointed in you. I'm like, oh, fuck, I can't tell
Speaker 2: you how many fucks I do not give about your disappointment.
Speaker 1: But anyway, selling you didn't mention anything about which party
Speaker 1: she was representing or any thing at all.
Speaker 2: I don't know, did you. It was just feel it
Speaker 2: was just that I had her on it was disappointing.
Speaker 2: Oh I'm sorry. Fuck, I should have wrung you and
Speaker 2: got your seal of approval. How thoughtless of me to
Speaker 2: to somebody that didn't get your tick And to that listener,
Speaker 2: shout out to you, you know who you are.
Speaker 1: It is a reminder that no matter what we're doing,
Speaker 1: which often people are trying to, especially in today's world
Speaker 1: where everything's everyone's got a profile and a voice of
Speaker 1: some sort, and we want to appeal to everyone, and
Speaker 1: you just can't. It can't kill everyone. It's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I have to make my decisions on what I think
Speaker 1: and how I think and what I believe in, and
Speaker 1: those and the people who who resonate with my style
Speaker 1: of thinking will will come to me or speak to
Speaker 1: me and talk to me and we will have this
Speaker 1: understanding that for us, that is that is what works.
Speaker 1: And then there will be a whole bunch of other
Speaker 1: people that it's like, that's that's not going to be
Speaker 1: for you. That's there's gonna be a different path, there's
Speaker 1: gonna be different resources.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that I'm going to say something
Speaker 2: that will get more nose out of joint. Fuck it.
Speaker 2: I think when people do everything that they can to
Speaker 2: be popular, it's a sign of weakness, not integrity. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: I think, fuck you, just say what you you know.
Speaker 2: Of course, we need to exercise wisdom and you know,
Speaker 2: not be overly insensitive to anyone. I get all of that,
Speaker 2: But don't say shit that you don't believe because you
Speaker 2: think that's going to make you popular. And there's so
Speaker 2: much fucking insincere, superficial self help, fucking I want to
Speaker 2: spew in my own mouth crap right that people wheel
Speaker 2: out regularly because they want people to love them, like them,
Speaker 2: approve of them. Might do just say what you really think,
Speaker 2: you know, B B A. We're and sensitive and if
Speaker 2: it's if it's just going to be highly offensive, and
Speaker 2: then then don't. But but but you know, if you
Speaker 2: think something's shit, that's okay, and if you're wrong, that's okay,
Speaker 2: and if you're right, that's okay. But yeah, I think that,
Speaker 2: you know, I think that the reason that this show
Speaker 2: has done okay is, you know, and it's not the
Speaker 2: high watermark for shows, and it's not the ABC and
Speaker 2: it's not Joe Rogan and it's not you know whatever,
Speaker 2: but we do all right because I think the conversations
Speaker 2: are real and raw and clunky and lumpy, and you know,
Speaker 2: we get stuff right, we get stuff wrong. We have
Speaker 2: interesting chats with interesting people, and I think that, you know,
Speaker 2: like you and me are both fucking horrible at selling ourselves, right,
Speaker 2: You're not always.
Speaker 1: Sell them myself, bro, look at me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, you're not bad with You're not bad
Speaker 2: with the posts and the But in terms of like,
Speaker 2: you know, my new mentoring program, right, I get uncomfortable
Speaker 2: even to go, hey, I'm running a mentor program blah
Speaker 2: blah blah, which I should do every single episode, and
Speaker 2: every episode I forget to do it. But I think
Speaker 2: that I get that. You know, people have got to
Speaker 2: sell stuff. By the way, there's nothing wrong with people
Speaker 2: selling themselves and programs and products and stuff. But I
Speaker 2: think in the middle of your program, your product, your
Speaker 2: mentoring group, whatever the fuck it is, just don't say
Speaker 2: shit about it that it isn't true, you know. And
Speaker 2: if one more self help person promotes themselves as the
Speaker 2: dude or the girl who changes lives, I'm like, I'm
Speaker 2: going to spew in my mouth again. I'm like, don't
Speaker 2: you don't change lives. You just share thoughts and ideas
Speaker 2: that aren't yours anyway, Like you didn't invent psychology, you
Speaker 2: didn't invent human behavior. You know, you and I. For
Speaker 2: the most part, other than stories that are unique to us,
Speaker 2: I am not sharing any information that has never been
Speaker 2: revealed to the world. But in terms of knowledge of
Speaker 2: human behavior, psychology, physiology, sociology, how humans work and think
Speaker 2: and behave and interact and operate, there's nothing new. But
Speaker 2: everyone wants to think that they're the genius that's tapped
Speaker 2: into the secret of fucking human existence. And it's just
Speaker 2: not true. We're all just different, fucking people navigating the
Speaker 2: human experience in our own way, falling down, fucking up,
Speaker 2: getting up. And some people are going to resonate with
Speaker 2: Craig Harper or Tif Cook and some are not. And
Speaker 2: some are going to think I'm a prick and some
Speaker 2: are going to think I'm a fucking big, lovable fuck
Speaker 2: with and whatever. You know. But it's it's and it's
Speaker 2: all okay. But let's just not pretend we're something that
Speaker 2: we're not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yesterday, yesterday, yesterday I caught up with doctor Bill
Speaker 1: God bless him to have my therapy session. It was
Speaker 1: great And the last portion we got to talking, I
Speaker 1: was talking about the program I'm program I'm doing and
Speaker 1: speaking and at the moment, there's a lot of pulling
Speaker 1: out all of my ideas and thoughts and the stuff
Speaker 1: I care about, and like looking under the hood of
Speaker 1: what it means and why it has meaning to me
Speaker 1: and how to really get absolute clarity on that so
Speaker 1: that I know that what I'm talking about is landing
Speaker 1: with all the people the way that I actually intended to,
Speaker 1: which I'm loving. I'm loving the process. But I was
Speaker 1: talking to him about some of my ideas on resilience,
Speaker 1: and what I loved was he was We had this
Speaker 1: great conversation. So he's done like he's in his seventies,
Speaker 1: he's been a speaker, he's an academic, he's a professor,
Speaker 1: and now he's doing you know, he's kind of doing
Speaker 1: less of that and more just one on one and
Speaker 1: living his life, dealing trying to keep me on track
Speaker 1: with mine.
Speaker 2: We are a fucking full time project.
Speaker 1: But I love talking to him because he's real and
Speaker 1: honest and he goes, oh, like, so we were unpacking
Speaker 1: what is resilience, what isn't resilience? What's the psychological definition
Speaker 1: of resilience? And I love that. I love doing that
Speaker 1: with different people because I'm like, oh, this for me,
Speaker 1: this is gold. I'm sitting here with a psychotherapist that's
Speaker 1: worked in drug an alcohol rehabilitation, that's worked across the world,
Speaker 1: that's been a professor and an academic, and he's saying
Speaker 1: to me, Yeah, I'm not sure I'm going to go
Speaker 1: and do some research on resilience. Now. I think I
Speaker 1: like the way you're thinking of that. Yeah, it's cool,
Speaker 1: like we go and learn things, we go and to
Speaker 1: do courses to do learning. But I am more interested
Speaker 1: in learning from the inside and from other peoples and
Speaker 1: from perspectives and experiences and going what what does this
Speaker 1: mean for all of the different But not just what
Speaker 1: has somebody written and convinced other people what's just sounded
Speaker 1: good enough to get in a psychology book, but what
Speaker 1: has today's world real practical in the stuff that in
Speaker 1: the type of people that come to speak to tiff Cook.
Speaker 1: Those people they're going to have a certain they'll be
Speaker 1: certain demographic, or they'll have a certain backstory, they'll have
Speaker 1: some reason to relate to me. So how do I
Speaker 1: talk about resilience and encourage resilience and explore resilience with
Speaker 1: them as opposed to handing them to DSM and going
Speaker 1: resilience says yeah, resilience is a showers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Hey try harder, Brian, Hey, Sally, It'll be
Speaker 2: all right. Stiff up a lip. Do you know what's
Speaker 2: interesting about that? Doc Telly her Pep Soldier on, you'll
Speaker 2: be right good on doctor Bill for being that humble
Speaker 2: and aware to go fuck not really sure, but what
Speaker 2: is here's a thing that I've learned without trying to
Speaker 2: sound like a dick, because I've already said I'm the
Speaker 2: world's worst academic, but here's something that I've learned that
Speaker 2: I never thought I would learn doing my PhD. So
Speaker 2: when I started November one, twenty nineteen, one of the
Speaker 2: first because my PhD is essentially in the area of
Speaker 2: self awareness, understanding others and self and da, da da,
Speaker 2: and I went, well, what I'm going to do is
Speaker 2: I'm going to start with just clearly defining self awareness.
Speaker 2: Let's start there. Well, there's no definition. There's thirty two definitions,
Speaker 2: there's one hundred, and there's three hundred and thirty. So
Speaker 2: you know, like even with resilience, there's what we call convergence.
Speaker 2: There's no convergence of definition, and so it just means oh,
Speaker 2: there is no like with my research, specifically meta accuracy
Speaker 2: and metaperception. I started with because one of the things
Speaker 2: that I was looking at, one of the myriad of
Speaker 2: things I'm looking at in one of my papers, which
Speaker 2: is called a systematic literature review of the way essentially
Speaker 2: that meta accuracy is measured. So in other words, how
Speaker 2: good am I in terms of like at understanding how
Speaker 2: other people see me? How accurate am I? So I
Speaker 2: started with twelve hundred papers that met my search criteria
Speaker 2: in these academic search engines, twelve hundred papers Tiffany, and
Speaker 2: ended up with one hundred and ten papers and of
Speaker 2: the one hundred and ten papers that formed this fucking
Speaker 2: gigantic table that me and my research team have created,
Speaker 2: and that form that was the starting point for this,
Speaker 2: which is what currently is a seventy two page academic
Speaker 2: paper on blah blah blah. Right, here's the thing. Even
Speaker 2: with that very specific thing, metaaccuracy, there's no unifying definition.
Speaker 2: So the funny thing is you think, oh, like, if
Speaker 2: you're not like you're a I would call you a
Speaker 2: like a casual researcher, Like you're not an academic researcher,
Speaker 2: but you do research right in your own are using
Speaker 2: your own tools and resource sources. But you think, let
Speaker 2: me get the actual definition. Well, there is no especially
Speaker 2: in psychology. And as I mean, and this is I've
Speaker 2: said this before, I have a love hate relationship with
Speaker 2: psychology because human behavior is fucking fascinating. I do endeavor
Speaker 2: to understand it first, you know, seek first to understand right,
Speaker 2: and then to be understood. But then we know that
Speaker 2: it's from from a straight science point of view. You
Speaker 2: and I can run the same test on the same
Speaker 2: person four days in a row from a psychometric evaluation
Speaker 2: point of view, and we're going to get four different
Speaker 2: sets of data, you know what I mean. So it's
Speaker 2: not because it's not consistent. Whereas you know, if we
Speaker 2: do the same test in physics, we're going to get
Speaker 2: the same result. You know, if I drop my phone
Speaker 2: right now to the floor, it's going to fall to
Speaker 2: the floor at nine point eight one meters per second
Speaker 2: because that's how fast things fall, give or take, and
Speaker 2: it's going to hit the floor one hundred times out
Speaker 2: of one hundred. Right, So in certain sciences it's very reliable,
Speaker 2: it's very predictable, it's very consistent. The problem with psychology
Speaker 2: is humans are not static. Humans are dynamic emotionally, psychologically, sociologically, physiologically,
Speaker 2: not even to the point where you could do an
Speaker 2: IQ test at eight o'clock in the morning and you'll
Speaker 2: score ten points higher than you do at eight o'clock
Speaker 2: in the evening, but you're the same person. But then
Speaker 2: what we do is we go, oh, unequivocally, TIFF's IQ
Speaker 2: is one seventeen, Well, no, it's actually one twenty seven
Speaker 2: in the morning or one fuer ninety seven, doesn't matter,
Speaker 2: or no, Craig is Craig's got this, or Craig's got that. Well,
Speaker 2: if you tested him on a different day, you might
Speaker 2: find out he doesn't have that. So it's a you know,
Speaker 2: the whole world of psychological research and defining things like
Speaker 2: resilience or self awareness. It's a very kind of dynamic landscape.
Speaker 2: It's not as hard and fast as people think.
Speaker 1: I wrote down when you were talking about that, I
Speaker 1: wrote down self understanding, behavior, priming, and manipulation. And because
Speaker 1: I was thinking of things, so with an interaction with
Speaker 1: a person, all of those things are happening beneath the surface,
Speaker 1: and we all have different levels of self fantasy. How
Speaker 1: much do I understand myself? And then I was thinking
Speaker 1: of back when I first started working with you, and
Speaker 1: you know, like I would remember that time you were like,
Speaker 1: sometimes I feel like you are pissed off or example,
Speaker 1: I was like, sometimes I am harps and I haven't
Speaker 1: figured it out yet and I know it. So there
Speaker 1: were so many times when I was like, what, I
Speaker 1: have this emotional reaction and I don't know what's me
Speaker 1: and what's real. I don't know what's Craig and what's
Speaker 1: my shit that I'm just unaware of. And I know
Speaker 1: that there were times at first where was like I'd
Speaker 1: be in the fucking zoom room waiting and excited as fuck,
Speaker 1: and you'd slide in straight from another meeting, right on
Speaker 1: time to start, and I'd be like, does let me
Speaker 1: give a fuck because people that are late with me?
Speaker 1: I had a thing about it, and whether or not
Speaker 1: I know the reality of it, that meant that something
Speaker 1: switched inside me, and whether I liked it or not,
Speaker 1: I was a bit fucking bottom lip out, sad and
Speaker 1: maybe a bit angry and pissed off. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: it's such a fucking asshole. He doesn't even want to
Speaker 1: say hi, to me first he just comes in and
Speaker 1: then I'll just fucking go and edit the pod. You know,
Speaker 1: it was like, but I'd leave that and go you
Speaker 1: know that's not reality, but it would still happen. So
Speaker 1: we have all of this stuff. So that's hard to
Speaker 1: measure in psychology when you go, okay, we'll let's set
Speaker 1: up all these ways to measure meta accuracy. But even
Speaker 1: my experience of interactions with people in the moment and
Speaker 1: then walking away and processing and different understanding of them
Speaker 1: because I'm not dissociated like I've had times where I
Speaker 1: accommodate and say yes to everything because that was a
Speaker 1: thing that it was a coping mechanism that happened from
Speaker 1: being a kid and being needed and wanted and abandonment
Speaker 1: and all the things. And then I got older and
Speaker 1: I got to a point where I was like, I
Speaker 1: do that. I need to learn to say can I
Speaker 1: think about it? Because I keep getting a day later
Speaker 1: and going, fuck.
Speaker 2: What the hell did.
Speaker 1: I say yes to that? What do I always say
Speaker 1: yes to that person? I don't even want to do that.
Speaker 1: That's not good for me. Yeah, So yeah, I think
Speaker 1: with those self evaluations, you're measuring stuff in one moment
Speaker 1: that and people's levels of self knowledge and understanding are
Speaker 1: changing all the time.
Speaker 2: So what is really good about what you just said
Speaker 2: is all of that's true, And it's funny because people
Speaker 2: would think that. And you and I have never really
Speaker 2: had a problem. But there's been a few lumps and
Speaker 2: bumps here and there, but nothing bad or relationship threatening
Speaker 2: or But the truth is that, well, one, I can
Speaker 2: be difficult, that's absolutely true. Two, you can be difficult,
Speaker 2: that's absolutely true. You like no, But this is what
Speaker 2: we've got to like. Do I ever get off and
Speaker 2: think fucking tif No, I don't think that. I would
Speaker 2: more likely to think are fucking me? I'm more likely
Speaker 2: to think that. Right. But the thing is that whatever
Speaker 2: is going on between you and whoever, you and me,
Speaker 2: you and your mum, you and your client, you are
Speaker 2: only ever capable of analyzing it subjectively. Yeah, because you
Speaker 2: you're you, So you're looking at it through the through
Speaker 2: your bias the people that did this to you or
Speaker 2: didn't do that to you, and your beliefs, and you're
Speaker 2: you could be in a shitty mood because you're twenty
Speaker 2: three percent angry and whatever. Right now, I could do
Speaker 2: the exact same thing on a different day, your response
Speaker 2: would be very different because on that day you're very
Speaker 2: different or you're somewhat different. But what is good about
Speaker 2: all of this and this is this is beautiful what's
Speaker 2: going on right now, because this is how people need
Speaker 2: to talk. I think about. Look, you did this and
Speaker 2: I got pissed off. Maybe it was you, maybe it
Speaker 2: was me, Maybe it was a bit of both of us.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but this is how we have real
Speaker 2: relationships and real conversations and with our friends and with
Speaker 2: our colleagues and with our family about what is really
Speaker 2: going on or you know. And it's not like I
Speaker 2: felt this. You made me feel. No, you didn't make
Speaker 2: me do anything. This happened, and as a result, this
Speaker 2: is how I felt. Now. I don't know how much
Speaker 2: of that is you, how much of that is me.
Speaker 2: It's probably all me. But my response was But once
Speaker 2: I got over myself and I went and you know,
Speaker 2: distilled it and thought about it a little bit, I
Speaker 2: realized it was many me or but and there been
Speaker 2: times with you where I have thought about things and
Speaker 2: I've come back and I've said to you, Okay, this
Speaker 2: is how I'm feeling I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong,
Speaker 2: but I would tell you one. So, for example, this
Speaker 2: is something that you and I have spoken about a bit,
Speaker 2: and I'll share with the listeners one hundred percent of transparency.
Speaker 2: I have had a very long history of people being
Speaker 2: my best friend as long as I'm useful to them.
Speaker 2: You and I have had that chat, right, And so
Speaker 2: I'm a bit wary of people who are all love
Speaker 2: and light and Jesus and unicorns to me. Oh, harp,
Speaker 2: sure this, harp, sure that, and ha ha ha ha,
Speaker 2: and we're all bestie buddies, and then my used by
Speaker 2: date runs out. Now I can't help them anymore, or
Speaker 2: open any more doors for them, or introduce them to
Speaker 2: any more people, or give them any more professional leg ups.
Speaker 2: I've done everything I can do for them. Then they
Speaker 2: stop reaching out. I'm like, oh, oh, that wasn't a
Speaker 2: friend at all, right, And I've shared that with you,
Speaker 2: and obviously you're not one of those people. But so
Speaker 2: that for me, where I'm I'm in terms of opening
Speaker 2: the door me opening the door like the Craig door,
Speaker 2: the fucking just to my heart to where I care
Speaker 2: about people. You know, I don't open that door that often.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I feel compelled to help
Speaker 2: and serve people, but I expect very little back, you know.
Speaker 2: But you and I have spoken about that, and you
Speaker 2: did a couple of things which you weren't actually doing
Speaker 2: anything wrong, but because of my history, I got upset,
Speaker 2: not upset, but probably I got a little bit oh
Speaker 2: oh oh fuck, no, no, I'm not here again, am I?
Speaker 2: And but then you know, when we understand more, then
Speaker 2: we connect more, then we go oh like, that's why
Speaker 2: I say to people, And I know we bang on
Speaker 2: it about a lot, but you know, theory of mind
Speaker 2: is understanding how others think. Well, fuck, let's try that,
Speaker 2: you know. And because I understand you pretty well, not completely,
Speaker 2: not totally and not flawlessly, but I understand you pretty
Speaker 2: well after whatever six years or whatever it is, and
Speaker 2: so I have a pretty good idea of how to
Speaker 2: build rapport and connection and trust with you and have
Speaker 2: a conversation with you, and you know, like, what's the word,
Speaker 2: have the most kind of healthy relationship we can have
Speaker 2: without that sounding strategic. But at the same time, here's
Speaker 2: an interesting thing. People think that a strategic relationship is bad. Well,
Speaker 2: it's only bad if you're pretending it's not strategic. So
Speaker 2: I think, like, for example, I love my mum and
Speaker 2: dad unconditionally, but I need to be strategic about how
Speaker 2: I talk to my dad, because if I need to
Speaker 2: be thoughtful about where I go and where I don't
Speaker 2: go conversationally, and if I don't have some kind of
Speaker 2: ron strategy, not that it's insincere or fake, but there's
Speaker 2: going to be a shitfest every time I see them,
Speaker 2: because we don't see either to eye on some things.
Speaker 2: But my strategy in inverted commas is that every time
Speaker 2: I see my dad, it's good. I'm not going to
Speaker 2: say anything that's going to ruffle feathers. I'm not going
Speaker 2: to you know, I'm not necessarily going to agree with
Speaker 2: everything either. But my strategy is that seeing Dad, for
Speaker 2: him and for me and for Mom is a good experience. Right,
Speaker 2: So I think in that way we can be strategic.
Speaker 2: You go into a meeting, do you have a strategy
Speaker 2: how I want to create a good outcome? Well, that's
Speaker 2: a good that's a good intention. But we're talking about
Speaker 2: those kind of hidden strategies and agendas where you're pretending
Speaker 2: that it's one thing, but actually underneath there's an agenda
Speaker 2: that you're not being open about.
Speaker 1: And people don't tend to actively plan or deconstruct this
Speaker 1: stuff after the moment, So we have interactions. People piss
Speaker 1: us off, and then we go and we vent because
Speaker 1: there's tensions. So we have a vent to someone this
Speaker 1: person always says this, and then that dissipates, and then
Speaker 1: we let it go and it continues it to cycle.
Speaker 1: We never go like the step is, well, okay, I'm
Speaker 1: going to react, like our emotions don't lie. If we
Speaker 1: emotionally react to somebody's treatment, well that's happening. And if
Speaker 1: it's keeping on keeping, If it's happening, if it's keeping
Speaker 1: on happening.
Speaker 2: Well welcome back to English with tiff lesson for.
Speaker 1: But if it's going to continue to happen, you have
Speaker 1: to address it right. So you can't. You can't just
Speaker 1: wrestle your emotions. If something is making them react, so
Speaker 1: they're happening. That's the truth. It's your job to go, Okay,
Speaker 1: how do I address this situation? What conversation do I
Speaker 1: need to have? How do I manage my emotions next
Speaker 1: time they rise in the moment? And then how do
Speaker 1: I express that to someone you did it to me
Speaker 1: in the beginning, when I'd made a joke about something
Speaker 1: and you rang me up and said, I know, I'm.
Speaker 2: Pretty sure you were just joke.
Speaker 1: You were having a joke. But that topic you joked about,
Speaker 1: you said, that's one that's not a good topic for
Speaker 1: me to fed a joke about. So and I remember that.
Speaker 1: I talk about that, you doing that a lot because
Speaker 1: that was a lesson for me. I went, I got goosebumps.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I was like, I never want someone to feel hurt
Speaker 1: by something I'm joking. Like if I know that now,
Speaker 1: So I learned. So it's but we don't want to
Speaker 1: do that because it's scary, because it's confronting, because it's
Speaker 1: a difficult conversation. But it's like, well, it's either that
Speaker 1: or you'll continue having the emotional disruption and then you'll
Speaker 1: fracture the relationship. But the other person will be a
Speaker 1: fucking when they're probably really not. It's just not being communicated.
Speaker 2: There's another part to that, which is when you said
Speaker 2: the emotions are real, it's true, they are real, of course,
Speaker 2: but then the question is are they helpful or is
Speaker 2: the emotional response disproportionate to the stimulus, Like, is my
Speaker 2: emotional reaction kind of appropriate? You know? It's like you
Speaker 2: might go, I don't know, you might say something offhand,
Speaker 2: a little whatever, and you're not at all, and then
Speaker 2: I lose my shit. Well that's true, I lost my shit.
Speaker 2: I'm angry. That's true, but it's inappropriate. So there's that
Speaker 2: we do need to acknowledge our emotions, but we also
Speaker 2: need to be curious about them, because some of our
Speaker 2: emotions serve us and some of us fucking sabotage us.
Speaker 2: So it's true to say, yes, this emotion is real,
Speaker 2: and I don't want to deny it, but it doesn't
Speaker 2: mean and that's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And just because you're having conversation with someone about
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that they have to change it. Might
Speaker 1: you might just be saying, hey, when this happens, this
Speaker 1: happens for me. I realize that's not a youth thing.
Speaker 1: But I just want you to know so that you
Speaker 1: understand what might be happening for me in that moment.
Speaker 1: And I'm working on that. But that can be a resolve.
Speaker 1: But we brush things under the carpet and it doesn't
Speaker 1: fix anything.
Speaker 2: I feel like you and I right now are in
Speaker 2: the middle of a dual therapy session for each other,
Speaker 2: and I definitely am.
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to get some of that shit out
Speaker 1: from under my car, but I've been sweeping under there
Speaker 1: for forty years.
Speaker 2: It is it is really interesting. It is interesting how
Speaker 2: how we think outwardly and how we think inwardly, and
Speaker 2: you know, the stuff that we're happy to share and
Speaker 2: the stuff that we're you know, because we're always are
Speaker 2: we always I think think we're kind of always worried
Speaker 2: about how people see us. So because of that, or
Speaker 2: at least aware of how people say this, which is
Speaker 2: not a terrible thing, of course, So I think there's
Speaker 2: you know, it's like I said to Zoey Daniel the
Speaker 2: other day, Zoey Daniels the other day about like, at
Speaker 2: the same time, she wants to be this real and
Speaker 2: raw and authentic human, as we all do, but also
Speaker 2: she's got this brand and this persona, and she's a
Speaker 2: politician and she's in federal government and she's you know,
Speaker 2: it's like, how do you manage that? Because like it
Speaker 2: or not, there is a persona that doesn't mean you're
Speaker 2: being fake or fraudulent, but also underneath that is a
Speaker 2: real person. And this is the this is the line
Speaker 2: that we walk, especially when you and I are not
Speaker 2: famous and we're no big deal, but we have a
Speaker 2: little tiny voice in, you know, in that we do
Speaker 2: these these things that we do these podcasts, and people
Speaker 2: listen to Wiston, Like you want to be like you
Speaker 2: simultaneously want to be liked and respected and loved and
Speaker 2: all of those things because you're human, but also you
Speaker 2: want people to know you really, you know, like know
Speaker 2: me like I'm not like I'm I'm hopefully like I'm
Speaker 2: not the guy that's just trying to scam you or
Speaker 2: sell you shit or you know, I know I'm not
Speaker 2: that guy, but you can't Like if you say that,
Speaker 2: then you sound like an idiot. But then if you
Speaker 2: you know, and in the middle of all of this,
Speaker 2: you know, then somebody will send me, Oh, I bet
Speaker 2: you're not doing those fucking corporate gigs for free. Well, no,
Speaker 2: I actually need to have a job. So that is
Speaker 2: my job. Is that alright with you? Like? What are you?
Speaker 2: You're a plumber? Do you un do you clean poo
Speaker 2: out of pipes for free? Or do you charge? You know,
Speaker 2: It's like, what do you want me to do? It's
Speaker 2: like I've done nearly two thousand podcasts for free. I've
Speaker 2: written fucking a trill in post giving free advice and
Speaker 2: inspiration and education for free. I do a lot of shit,
Speaker 2: you know. It's like I can't do everything for free
Speaker 2: because I've got to eat, I've got to pay bills.
Speaker 2: So but what I do do, based on my values
Speaker 2: and my internal sat NAB is I pretty much do
Speaker 2: as much free stuff as I can, you know, And
Speaker 2: but beyond that, I just start to fuck up my
Speaker 2: own life, you know. So it doesn't need to be
Speaker 2: one or the other. And I've said this to people before.
Speaker 2: I can go in and do a whole day with
Speaker 2: NAB and charge them a fucking fortune because and I
Speaker 2: never say this, but one I'm good at it, and
Speaker 2: two they can afford it. And bibbity bobbity booth, thanks
Speaker 2: for the dough and they say, thanks, Harps, you were great.
Speaker 2: We're all happy. But then I can go and you know,
Speaker 2: do something else where. It's just that gift of giving
Speaker 2: and it's beautiful and I'm not only am I okay
Speaker 2: with it? It's important to me.
Speaker 1: We also when the right people are open to that, okay, Nob'
Speaker 1: spending that money anyway, never buying someone to do that job.
Speaker 1: So why not have a person that's going to make
Speaker 1: a difference.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And well you know you try to and
Speaker 2: you think I did that gig last week? Was it
Speaker 2: last week? For I think I told you women in
Speaker 2: print shout out to the women in print. That was
Speaker 2: so good.
Speaker 1: That was me for a long time.
Speaker 2: Well what do you mean? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2: And they were ace and like you know, I mean,
Speaker 2: I just get up there and I talk. There's no PowerPoint,
Speaker 2: there's no I don't half the time, like I might
Speaker 2: have one page with some dot points or not. It
Speaker 2: usually stays in my pocket. And anyway, I just talking.
Speaker 2: At the end of it, you know, everyone's like the
Speaker 2: feedback was good. Everyone enjoyed it. And I said, you know,
Speaker 2: did you enjoy that? Yep? Was it relevant? Yeah? You
Speaker 2: know your bits inspired? Yep, that's cool. And I go, look,
Speaker 2: I'm really glad you liked it. And I'm glad you
Speaker 2: like me because I'm wildly insecure. So thank you for
Speaker 2: liking me and giving me approval. But here's what I
Speaker 2: want to tell you, actually matters me turning up and
Speaker 2: talking to you for an hour. Really, that's me doing
Speaker 2: a job, and I get money and I do my thing.
Speaker 2: But what I really care about is what you do next.
Speaker 2: And I said, so, I've just given you an hour
Speaker 2: of feared. Life's not a theory. And I hope that
Speaker 2: the feedback's good, and I hope people go, oh, that
Speaker 2: Craig Harper guy was good, and the whole morning was great,
Speaker 2: and the Brecky was nice and the host you know,
Speaker 2: and it's all it's a good experience and that's great,
Speaker 2: but really what matters is what you do over the
Speaker 2: next week to five, ten, twenty weeks. And a few
Speaker 2: people came up and said to me later, thank you
Speaker 2: for saying that stuff at the end, And I said, well,
Speaker 2: that's the stuff that moves the needle. If I tell
Speaker 2: great stories and I'm funny and inspiring and then everybody
Speaker 2: forgets what I've said ten minutes after it's done. Well,
Speaker 2: you can't apply what you can't remember, and if you
Speaker 2: don't apply it, you can't create change. So I want
Speaker 2: to really impress yes, me turning up doing my job.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you enjoyed it, but that's not important. I'm
Speaker 2: not important. Even what I said is not important unless
Speaker 2: you can operationalize that to create some kind of shift
Speaker 2: on planet you, which is why we do personal and
Speaker 2: professional development so that we might help people create some
Speaker 2: kind of shift. I feel like we're done? Are we done?
Speaker 2: Have we just hit the the conversational finish line? Did
Speaker 2: I see your chin? Touch the tape?
Speaker 1: We've we've just flown past the jack and flag.
Speaker 2: You're like the You're like the gout gout of conversations.
Speaker 2: I was doing great. I was doing great, and you
Speaker 2: just fucking blew by me. And yeah, what's your word again?
Speaker 2: That slipped me? Happening, happening? You just have and right
Speaker 2: past me.
Speaker 1: I'm going to copyright that word. That's happening.
Speaker 2: I think I don't know who's hosting today, you or me.
Speaker 2: I think you started, but so you can sign off
Speaker 2: for us.
Speaker 1: Thanks everyone, Thanks Hart, Thanks Tiff. Don't forget Harps's new
Speaker 1: workshop coming up on April twenty eight, Is that right?
Speaker 2: Yah? Oh? Thanks shit. It's going to be great. I'm
Speaker 2: going to be there. You should come. It's going to
Speaker 2: change your life. It's incredible. There's never been a mentoring
Speaker 2: program like it. It's fucking life changing, just like unicorns.
Speaker 2: And shit come along. Imagine if we did that. All right,
Speaker 2: Thanks tif so yeah,