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Speaker 1: Pray, Anthony Harfer, Tiffany and Cork Heierie is happy Wednesday, sir.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Bro, Thanks Bryce Sephine. That are you good? I'm great.

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Speaker 1: I just had a great sparring session with someone with

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Speaker 1: two percent vision, so that was that was the highlight

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Speaker 1: of my day.

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Speaker 2: That's like the perfect opponent. How do you walk us

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Speaker 2: through that a little bit? How does one spa with

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Speaker 2: somebody who can't see? Do you have bells on your gloves?

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Speaker 1: Well, here's the deal, I thought to myself. I haven't

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Speaker 1: sparred since last year, inspard, I've barely picked up the

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Speaker 1: boxing gloves, to be honest. So I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: not really, you know I've been doing it. But yeah, sure,

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Speaker 1: if there's anyone I'll say yes to, it's a blind guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, reason, we'll shout out to our vision impeded listeners.

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Speaker 2: And if you think just being insensitive, she.

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Speaker 1: Is, well no, right, I thought, well this, you know,

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Speaker 1: this be too dangerous. I did put a mouthguard in though,

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Speaker 1: but nothing quite sticks to you like shit to a

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Speaker 1: blanket than someone that can't see but has keen other senses.

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Speaker 1: I could not shake that bugger. It was right there.

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Speaker 1: In fact, there was only one time I was quiet

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Speaker 1: enough to sneak around and he was like like a ninja,

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Speaker 1: going where is she? The rest of the time. He's

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Speaker 1: right that the rest of the time you would not

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Speaker 1: if you were watching on you wouldn't know you were

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Speaker 1: watching one vision impaired person sparring.

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Speaker 2: I mean, could you try to explain it to us?

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out how does so he's not

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Speaker 2: a boxer, right.

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, So this is They've got an event

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Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks. It's up in Queensland. It's

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Speaker 1: a bunch of podcasters actually, and they wanted to find

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Speaker 1: two blind podcasters to have this fight at this event, and.

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Speaker 2: That just seems that sounds cruel.

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Speaker 1: They could find one, so they've made it even more crazy.

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Speaker 1: They're putting seven blokes in the ring, six of them

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Speaker 1: being blindfolded, and Benny, who's two percent vision, and they're

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Speaker 1: just gonna let him go for gold. So he brings

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Speaker 1: me up a week ago and goes, I haven't actually

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Speaker 1: done any sparring. Could you punch me in the face?

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Speaker 1: And I said sure, sure, think sure. Think he was

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Speaker 1: really good, actually really good. There's I think that there

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Speaker 1: is a lot that can be an advantage about not

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Speaker 1: having vision when you're learning things with your other senses.

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Speaker 1: When you're like his hair, his gloves are stuck to

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Speaker 1: his face, he's not getting you know, when our eyes

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Speaker 1: go places, it affects our balance. Just there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of information coming in when you're boxing. You're moving, you're watching,

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Speaker 1: you're protecting, you're feeling things, you're seeing things, depth, perception,

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Speaker 1: all of that stuff. His head doesn't lift twenty punches

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Speaker 1: because he's not following his eyes anywhere, so he stays down,

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Speaker 1: he holds. It's really good. Actually, what's super impressed.

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Speaker 2: Now, if you're in any way trying to convince the

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Speaker 2: listeners and I that there's some kind of fucking advantage

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Speaker 2: to not being able to see when you're boxing, you're

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Speaker 2: doing a terrible job because none of us believe you.

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Speaker 2: That's the worst bloody sales pitch.

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Speaker 1: Oh.

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Speaker 2: Look, he's got a real advantage because he's got amazing,

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Speaker 2: you know, senses. You know what's good sense for boxing.

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Speaker 2: Been able to fucking see the glove coming at you. Fuck,

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Speaker 2: that's hilarious. Well good on him, shout out to Benny.

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Speaker 2: But also I'm thinking, I'm guessing this is not a

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Speaker 2: sanctioned event seven blindfolded or six blindfolded people and a

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Speaker 2: blind bloke in a ring throwing cut lunches. That just

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Speaker 2: seems like something from Bloody what's that stupid show where

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Speaker 2: they all used to do crazy things? You know, all

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Speaker 2: those guys. Ah, you know there was a whole show Jackass.

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Speaker 2: Oh Jackass. That's just an episode of Jackass.

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Speaker 1: Well it's going to be doing it in front of

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Speaker 1: five thousand people in the audience.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know how they get insurance for that

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Speaker 2: or how they get that sanction. That just seems like

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Speaker 2: me personally, I'm like, fuck yeah, let's do that every weekend.

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Speaker 1: Well, the thing that concerns me the most is the

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Speaker 1: advantage to wearing punches when you're boxing is you see

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Speaker 1: them and you learn how to wear them, and you

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Speaker 1: don't get punched from behind or you see them coming,

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Speaker 1: so you're absorbing them properly. And there's going to be

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Speaker 1: seven blokes in the ring. People are going to get

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Speaker 1: punched in the back of the head. They're going to

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Speaker 1: be frantically swinging punches and thus wearing them when they

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Speaker 1: can't be seen, and that's very in my opinion, it's

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Speaker 1: possible to be quite a bit more dangerous. But I

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Speaker 1: was very.

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Speaker 2: Impressing about that. Nothing about that that's a good idea.

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Speaker 2: It's hilarious, hilarious, but from somebody who studies the brain, somewhat,

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Speaker 2: I can tell you, if you want to make your

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Speaker 2: brain work worse, just shut your eyes and let people

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Speaker 2: hit you in the head.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you know what's interesting is I was having

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Speaker 1: a quick chat with him afterwards, just about the idea

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Speaker 1: of people white people are mean, Like he's got two

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Speaker 1: percent visions. So I was saying to him, I'd give

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Speaker 1: anything to to come to just pop in to see

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Speaker 1: what you see for a moment, because I'm curious, but

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Speaker 1: so many people Because he sees dark, So he looked around,

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Speaker 1: he goes, I can't see the ring. I can't see anything.

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Speaker 1: All that's black. And then he looked up and there's

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Speaker 1: a high ceiling with a beam of light that comes in.

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Speaker 1: He goes, I can see like a lighter line across there.

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Speaker 1: And then he turned to another war and he said,

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Speaker 1: and this over here looks a bit lighter, so he

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Speaker 1: can see bits of light. Yeah, And I said, you know,

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Speaker 1: when I walk in, he's sitting at a table in

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Speaker 1: front of a computer, tinkering on a laptop, and I'm like, dude,

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Speaker 1: I'm here to spar the blind guy like who are you? Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: And the people that get angry and mean because they're like,

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Speaker 1: you're not blind and get aggressive about it, and it's

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Speaker 1: isn't that interesting human behavior?

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Speaker 2: Human? But well, I think that's my life in your life,

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Speaker 2: isn't it. I mean, yeah, I've been studying it in

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Speaker 2: one way or another for my entire life. And I'm,

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Speaker 2: you know, ten minutes away from finishing my whole kitten

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Speaker 2: kaboodle at UNI, and I still don't fucking know how

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Speaker 2: humans work. And I still people still, you know, you're

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Speaker 2: never going to know. Like the human condition is what

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Speaker 2: makes somebody kind and generous and loving and compassionate to

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Speaker 2: a stranger that they'll never us see again. Like I

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Speaker 2: love that, And like we have all ends of the spectrum.

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Speaker 2: We have people that are complete, you know, sociopaths and

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Speaker 2: psychopaths and manipulative narcissists to do anything to get anything,

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Speaker 2: and will lie and cannive and can be charismatic and

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Speaker 2: charming and full of shit. And then yeah, the people

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Speaker 2: at the other end and the people in between and

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Speaker 2: the you know, it's like it's yeah, I don't think

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Speaker 2: there's an answer to that question, but I think some

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Speaker 2: people seem to. You know, what's it called there, there's

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Speaker 2: a name for it. It's called something like shadan freuden

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Speaker 2: or something. I'll look at it, but it's basically a

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Speaker 2: German word for this concept that people take delight in

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Speaker 2: other people's pain. Yeah, yeah, and it's that's it's it's

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Speaker 2: a thing. I only learned the term the other day

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Speaker 2: and I can't remember it. I need to That's funny.

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Speaker 2: I need to use things, you know, Like when I

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Speaker 2: learned something, I'm like, I've got to teach that in

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Speaker 2: the next day or two or three. And then if

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Speaker 2: I teach it a few times, then it gets him bettered.

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Speaker 2: Then I pretty much never forget it, but until it's

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Speaker 2: locked in there. But yeah, so well, good for him,

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Speaker 2: and I hope he comes out without any brain damage.

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Speaker 2: And how is he doing? The computer thing? By the way,

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Speaker 2: does it talk to him or something to it? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it talks to him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's basically chat JPT.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It just always makes me think when you interact with people.

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Speaker 1: That always makes me think about everything we take for granted,

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Speaker 1: which sounds a cliche, but you know, I'd jump in

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Speaker 1: the car and I drive home, and then I think

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Speaker 1: about he had to get a taxi there, and you

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Speaker 1: get to taxi back, and then I've got to send

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Speaker 1: I'm sending him some photos and he will never get

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Speaker 1: to see those photos. He's going to put it on

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Speaker 1: social media, and like, so he's in this same world

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Speaker 1: we're living in. His world is so different, Yes, And

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Speaker 1: we don't build it and not just for blind people,

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Speaker 1: for all sorts of people. We don't build it for

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Speaker 1: everyone else.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's yeah, it an't built for people who

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Speaker 2: aren't in you know, in inverted commas typical.

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Speaker 1: I guess you know you're really inspired by you know,

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Speaker 1: that's two blind people I've been involved with now that

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Speaker 1: are doing like crazy stuff despite their limitation, like we

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Speaker 1: had Ben Felt both Ben's by the way, Ben Felton,

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Speaker 1: who wanted to be the fastest man on a motorcycle

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Speaker 1: and ride a motorcycle fastest blind man. Sorry, And it's

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Speaker 1: just like, I think that's so inspiring when people because

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Speaker 1: people like that just I think of them often and go, well,

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Speaker 1: if they can, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Isn't it funny though, the number of people Tiffany and

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Speaker 2: Cook who have a disability and or they don't have

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Speaker 2: a disability, then something happens, then they get a disability,

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Speaker 2: or they acquire whatever it is, and then all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden they start doing all this amazing shit when

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Speaker 2: they've actually got less capacity than they had before the

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Speaker 2: injury or the accident or the illness, but now they're

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Speaker 2: doing ten times more than they ever did. And it's

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Speaker 2: not because all of a sudden they've got more talent

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Speaker 2: or more physical ability, or but it's because they've got

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Speaker 2: a totally different mindset. And isn't it a pity that

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Speaker 2: so many of us wait until something fucking diabolical happens

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Speaker 2: before we think, oh, geez, I wonder what I could do.

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Speaker 2: I wonder how much progress or what I could achieve

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Speaker 2: if I just fucking let go of all the bullshit

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Speaker 2: and dive in. And if I fail, I fail. If

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Speaker 2: I win, If it's painful, it's painful. If it's good,

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Speaker 2: it's good. But it's like it seems, and I'm generalizing,

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Speaker 2: but it seems that a lot of people who end

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Speaker 2: up in a situation that they didn't choose or want

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Speaker 2: some of them become almost fucking superhuman because I don't

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Speaker 2: know why, like the fear goes or the maybe it's

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Speaker 2: just that we have a shift or they have a

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Speaker 2: shift in awareness or perspective and go, oh fucking hell,

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Speaker 2: I'm not here for a long time. I'm here for

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Speaker 2: a good time. Why don't I fucking jump in.

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Speaker 1: M I think I think about that heaps in terms

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Speaker 1: of all the answers that we're all seeking, Like we're

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Speaker 1: learning and we're seeking, and we're evolving, and we're trying

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Speaker 1: to grasp this thing like it's all still, like life

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Speaker 1: is still, and the answers of this thing, and then

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Speaker 1: I'll apply them. And by the time I apply them,

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Speaker 1: by the time you start to apply something, you've already changed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not.

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Speaker 1: Even the same person with the same circumstances or emotions

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Speaker 1: or feelings or maybe even values.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And the thing that is really important to you

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Speaker 2: when you're let's just say twenty, might be completely irrelevant

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Speaker 2: when you're thirty or when you're forty two year old Tiff,

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Speaker 2: and you go, fuck, you know what I want? I

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Speaker 2: want this, and then you work your ass off and

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Speaker 2: you get it and you go, ah, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: maybe that wasn't it, or maybe or maybe that's nirvana,

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Speaker 2: or you know, it's the old You get to the

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Speaker 2: top of the mountain and you're like, mah, fuck, I

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Speaker 2: climbed the wrong mountain, or this is good, but oh,

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Speaker 2: look at that mountain over there. Then you climb that

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Speaker 2: when you're like, this is a bit better, but fuck,

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Speaker 2: look at that. And you know, because I think, like,

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Speaker 2: we grow up and I know we've spoken about this before,

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Speaker 2: but we grow up in this kind of model of

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Speaker 2: thinking that says successes about external things. And so when

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Speaker 2: you get that thing or change that thing, or own

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Speaker 2: that thing, or people can see that trophy or see

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Speaker 2: how many followers craigscot or Tiff Scott's or or you know,

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Speaker 2: Craig's biceps or TIFF's fucking whatever, whatever it is, right,

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Speaker 2: and then you achieve it or create it or do

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Speaker 2: it or change it. And then you're like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 2: still a bit sad, I'm still a bit I've still

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Speaker 2: got shit self esteem, or I'm still overthinking, or I'm

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Speaker 2: still I still feel like there's some kind of emotional

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Speaker 2: and or psychological whole or I feel disconnected, or and

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Speaker 2: then I go, oh, maybe it's maybe I need to

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Speaker 2: be more jacked, or maybe I need a bigger house,

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Speaker 2: or you know, it's like we have these stories that

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Speaker 2: these external things are going to create these internal outcomes

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Speaker 2: that I don't think they generally do.

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Speaker 1: I've been thinking about it heaps lately, and I feel

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Speaker 1: like with a lot of the people I'm around and

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Speaker 1: having conversations with are in this state of busyness and

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Speaker 1: a bit of burnout. So I'm having a lots of

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Speaker 1: conversations around that. And because I've made such a massive,

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Speaker 1: overdue effort in stopping that myself, because I'm just a

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Speaker 1: product of that of working seven days week for god

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Speaker 1: knows how many years now seven days and you know,

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Speaker 1: always happening to happening that word again, always having.

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Speaker 2: To drive it's bad happening, khaf e n happening.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for drawing my attention to that. And Nevern you

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Speaker 1: always said it.

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Speaker 2: All words, You've got to start somewhere. So let's let's go.

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Speaker 2: It's twenty twenty five, it's sixteenth of April. Let's push

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Speaker 2: that motherfucker out of the literary nest, and we'll accredit it,

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Speaker 2: will credit it to you. Tea Cook happening. That's now,

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Speaker 2: it's a thing. Now it's it. It's a word. It's like,

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Speaker 2: it's right up there with somethink.

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Speaker 1: Well it's a real tazzy word.

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Speaker 2: Somethink, somethink.

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Speaker 1: Just ask my friends, just asks. Yeah, start, just.

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Speaker 2: Ask my friend about something. And if you don't, it

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Speaker 2: won't be happening anyway anyway.

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Speaker 1: So I'm really conscious, and I'm really conscious of the

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Speaker 1: people around me that might still be having the conversations

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Speaker 1: I was, or you know, wearing the busy badge or

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Speaker 1: oh it's really busy, or stressing or frantic for a

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Speaker 1: couple of people that have come up against healthy issues

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Speaker 1: in the middle of that, and watching how hard it

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Speaker 1: is to still make the choice and realize that, like

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Speaker 1: to pull yourself out of that, out of it. I've

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Speaker 1: got to I'm busy, I've got to make more money,

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Speaker 1: I've got to do more things. I've got to produce,

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Speaker 1: you know, Like I get it, because I feel in

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Speaker 1: me what drives me towards that. But there's the experience

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Speaker 1: of something, and then there's the knowledge of wanting of

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Speaker 1: that not really being a reality, it's just a story.

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Speaker 1: And then there's the trying to move yourself to live

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Speaker 1: a little bit differently, and it takes time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think it's also part of

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Speaker 2: it is about getting there's so many facets this, but

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Speaker 2: getting clear about what you want and what you don't want,

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Speaker 2: and why you want that thing and why you don't

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Speaker 2: want that other thing. Right. And I've had a lot

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Speaker 2: of conversations lately with people about and I know we're

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Speaker 2: revisiting this old chestnut, but metacognition, you know, thinking about

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Speaker 2: how I think and how you think and all of

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Speaker 2: that stuff, like starting to become aware of the so

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Speaker 2: many people at the moment are so fucking emotional about

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Speaker 2: what they think about Donald Trump, or what they think

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Speaker 2: about Anthony Albanezi, or what they think about the carnivore

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Speaker 2: diet or what they think. And it's like, I understand

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Speaker 2: that you don't think like me or agree with me,

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Speaker 2: or you do agree and you do you know, either

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Speaker 2: way all good. But do we have to hate everyone

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Speaker 2: who doesn't think like us? Do we have to call

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Speaker 2: everyone a fuck with that likes Donald Trump or hates

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump? Or do we have to like do we

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Speaker 2: need to be so vitriolic and so nasty? Does it

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Speaker 2: and by the way, does it move the needle, does

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Speaker 2: it help? Does it improve anything? Is it creating good outcomes?

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Speaker 2: Is making people feel better or do better? Like it's

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Speaker 2: I understand there's always going to be divergence of opinion

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Speaker 2: and idea and belief in philosophy and behavior, of course,

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Speaker 2: but it's like, Okay, you're a Muslim, I'm an atheist,

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Speaker 2: tips a Catholic, old mates, a Buddhist or whatever whatever

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Speaker 2: it is. Hey, let's all have dinner and not talk

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Speaker 2: about any of that shit and let's just hang out

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Speaker 2: like or let you know, it's like, we don't need

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Speaker 2: to try to convince other people that what we think

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Speaker 2: is the thing that everybody should think. But that seems

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Speaker 2: to be a lot of what happened in some areas

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Speaker 2: of social media, where it's just people screaming at each

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Speaker 2: other who all have a different opinion. You know, I

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Speaker 2: did that. I think I might have even done it

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Speaker 2: with you that On the Fence episode a while ago,

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Speaker 2: we're talking about the beauty of like, you know, people

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Speaker 2: tell you you've got to get off the fence. I'm like, no,

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Speaker 2: you don't, because what they're saying is you need to

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Speaker 2: pick a side. Well fuck your sides. I don't want

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Speaker 2: to be on a side because I don't want to

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Speaker 2: be in your group. I don't want to be in

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Speaker 2: their group. I don't want to be in a fucking group.

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Speaker 2: I want to just think for myself, and if it

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Speaker 2: happens to align with what you think or they think,

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Speaker 2: that's cool. But I'm still not in a group with you,

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Speaker 2: because the problem is that once we are in these groups,

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Speaker 2: these philosophical, religious, nutritional, political, sociological groups, whatever, now you're

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Speaker 2: part of the group. Now you need to align with

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Speaker 2: the group to stay in the group, which means you

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Speaker 2: have this drive to belong and this drive to align.

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Speaker 2: So now you can't be critical of anything, which means

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Speaker 2: you can't think critically because you are more interested in

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Speaker 2: staying a member of the group than actually telling people

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Speaker 2: or actually being true to your own thinking and ability

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Speaker 2: to critically decide or what is or isn't for you. Now,

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Speaker 2: there are many things that I think like I might

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Speaker 2: be in the middle of a situation where people are

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Speaker 2: talking about something that I think is bullshit, and I

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Speaker 2: won't nod my head and agree with them, But I

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Speaker 2: have enough awareness and social intelligence to know that if

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Speaker 2: in the middle of all of this, I go, I

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Speaker 2: think you're all full of shit. I think you're wrong.

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Speaker 2: This is what I think is right, and that may

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Speaker 2: be what I'm thinking, but I'm definitely not going to

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Speaker 2: say that, not because I'm scared, but because it won't help.

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Speaker 2: It won't change anything. Nobody's going to go Nobody who

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Speaker 2: thinks something diametrically opposed to me is going to go, Oh,

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Speaker 2: that's the really good point, Craig, I am wrong. Thanks

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Speaker 2: for pointing that out right. It doesn't happen. And by

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Speaker 2: the way, I don't know that I'm right. I just

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Speaker 2: have a different opinion to you. And this idea that

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Speaker 2: or this, uh what's the word this in lack of

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Speaker 2: capacity for people to be able to go, look, I

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Speaker 2: really think this, but I could be wrong, Like people

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Speaker 2: seem to have an aversion to no, fuck you and

355
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Speaker 2: fuck that group and where it's like, geez, do you not?

356
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Speaker 2: I get shit wrong all the time, and I'm and

357
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Speaker 2: I think about this stuff a lot, and I'm mildly educated.

358
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Speaker 2: I'm mildly I do a lot of research and thinking

359
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,040
Speaker 2: and exploring, and I still get half the shit wrong.

360
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Speaker 2: So why do you think you couldn't be wrong? And

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Speaker 2: this is the problem, is that that you get all

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Speaker 2: of these echo chambers where everyone whatever it is, they

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Speaker 2: think there. I don't even know if I've answered your question.

364
00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:00,480
Speaker 2: I've completely diverted the conversation. I'm aware, but to me,

365
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Speaker 2: that's just it's a bit sad. It's a bit sad

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Speaker 2: that we think we're the smartest species, but we're so

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Speaker 2: fucking stupid and ignorant so much of the time, and

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Speaker 2: we do so much that hurts so many people, and

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Speaker 2: we can't just and I know this sounds naff, and

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Speaker 2: I know it's never going to happen, but imagine if

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Speaker 2: people were just more concerned with being loving and kind.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't mean to everyone all the time, but just where

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Speaker 2: you went, Like, I just met with this Should I say?

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Speaker 2: It doesn't matter, I I won't say. But I just

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Speaker 2: met with this person who needed some help. Literally, I

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Speaker 2: came straight. I left the cafe at twenty two past one,

377
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Speaker 2: and you and I were on it half past one.

378
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Speaker 2: And at the end it was someone who asked for

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Speaker 2: and I can't be everything for everyone, so please don't

380
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Speaker 2: send me an email. But they said what do I

381
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 2: owe you? And I went nothing, And I'm like it's

382
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Speaker 2: all good. And they they're like, why would you do that?

383
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Speaker 2: And I literally go, because I've got some skills and

384
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 2: knowledge that you need and you need help. And they're like,

385
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,159
Speaker 2: I do, but but why would you do it for nothing?

386
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 2: And I'm like, it's kind of sad that people are

387
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 2: blown away when someone will genuinely just help them where

388
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 2: there's no hook, catch agenda, it's not strategic. And I

389
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 2: go because, well, one, you need the help, and I

390
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 2: know I can help you a little bit and it's

391
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 2: my pleasure see you later. But you know that's why

392
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 2: I've said to you, and I've said on this show,

393
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 2: I'll shut up after this. Like, if you've got two

394
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,880
Speaker 2: or three of those people in your life that are

395
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Speaker 2: just there for you no matter what, all the time,

396
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 2: even when you're being a fucking idiot, which is going

397
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,880
Speaker 2: to be regularly because you're a human. If you've got

398
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Speaker 2: three people in your life that just would show up

399
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 2: for you and be there for you, then I think

400
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 2: you're doing great, which sounds kind of pessimistic, but I

401
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,880
Speaker 2: just think finding those no matter what, people who love

402
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,640
Speaker 2: you inside out, and they'll probably tell you when you're

403
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 2: being a dickhead as well. But that's okay, Like those

404
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,400
Speaker 2: people are a gift I love.

405
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Speaker 1: I actually love that idea of being on the fence.

406
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Speaker 1: I think I feel like you might have done a

407
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: solo on that. I don't think I lived that.

408
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:16,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's the smartest space to be pulsion

409
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,120
Speaker 2: that we have. Sorry, I'll shut up after this. Don't

410
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 2: send me an email and know I'm talking too much.

411
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Speaker 2: But where we tell people they've got to pick a side,

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Speaker 2: let me tell you don't. You don't. In fact, there's

413
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Speaker 2: probably better to not pick a side.

414
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Speaker 1: I reckon. I've landed there a lot more with in

415
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Speaker 1: recent times. Again, I've come back there. I've come back

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Speaker 1: to the fence in a lot of things and then

417
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Speaker 1: just got to the point where go Then when you

418
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Speaker 1: sit on the fence, you go, Okay, Now, how much

419
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: of my time and energy is warranted by even thinking

420
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: about it? You know, it's it's hard. I might just

421
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: park that whole thing. Because it's when I first became

422
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 1: old enough to vote, I was always so aware of

423
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: so I when I want to learn something, when I'm

424
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 1: interested in something, I kind of I'm really curious. I

425
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: want to learn it pretty deeply, and if it's not

426
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Speaker 1: in that bucket. It's in that I don't give a

427
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: fuck and I won't listen and I'll learn bucket. When

428
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 1: I became old enough to vote, I was like, I

429
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: am so aware that the implications of making decisions are

430
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 1: have go far beyond my knowledge, and I don't think

431
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: people reflect on that. I don't people think people think

432
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: past their immediate circumstances to all of the knock on

433
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: effects of the decisions that are made, beyond what might

434
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: just sound good or feel good or be good for

435
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 1: them and their family.

436
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Well, Also, when you think back, just to

437
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 2: our notion that you started with the being on the fence,

438
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 2: I actually visualize me on a fence and there's hundreds

439
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 2: or thousands of people on one side and thousands on

440
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 2: the other. Now, when I'm on the fence, seither literally

441
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 2: or metaphorically, I have a perspective that none of them

442
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 2: do because they are all compartmentalized. They're all in this

443
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 2: group or that group. I'm not in your fucking group.

444
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 2: I don't want to be in your group. And I'm

445
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 2: not better and I'm not worse. I'm just not you know,

446
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 2: it might happen that we land on the same beliefs,

447
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 2: and that's cool, but there'll be other things that I

448
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 2: totally disagree with you on. You know, this is funny.

449
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 2: A couple of days ago, maybe it was yesterday other

450
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 2: day before I had Zoe Daniels on the Oh you

451
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 2: were there, and you know what I found funny I said,

452
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 2: to full disclosure to our listeners, I said to Zoe

453
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 2: before we started, I'm about as political as a mockus,

454
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 2: and so this is not going to be some fucking

455
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 2: hard hitting political interrogation. So breathe easy, champ, you know.

456
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 2: And I think she probably went, oh, yeah, sure, And

457
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 2: then it proceeded to me exactly what I said it

458
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 2: was going to be, And it just so happens that

459
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 2: she's a politician and I'm a podcaster and a researcher

460
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 2: and a speaker, and it was two people talking. It

461
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:29,479
Speaker 2: wasn't a political conversation at all. And my perspective was

462
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 2: I've interviewed hardly any politicians a couple Senator Jackie Lambish. Right.

463
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 2: But here's what's funny. Three people since have said to

464
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 2: me something like, either I'm pretty surprised you interviewed her,

465
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 2: or why would you give her any airtime? And I'm like,

466
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 2: people are funny, aren't they. And I couldn't even I

467
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 2: couldn't even be fucked. I'm like, I didn't want to go,

468
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 2: oh really, you know, and I'm like, cool, you know.

469
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 2: And then someone else kell that, you know, she sent

470
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 2: a message and went, she's amazing. I love that. A

471
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 2: few other people went, oh, wow, like I've never heard

472
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 2: of her, she's great. Couple of other people went glad

473
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 2: you got her on, right, but it's so funny that, well,

474
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 2: why'd you get it?

475
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: Well?

476
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 2: I got her on because she's a human and I

477
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 2: wanted to talk to her. And if she thinks what

478
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 2: I think, or doesn't think what I think, or we

479
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 2: have the same or different or whatever, it's all okay.

480
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 2: It's like, I don't want to get a version of

481
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 2: me on the show every day, but just to be

482
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 2: able to have a conversation with somebody. Yeah, A few

483
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 2: people got their nose out of joint because I interviewed her,

484
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 2: and I'm like, wow, it says way more about you

485
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 2: than her.

486
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: That is just so so interesting, because I think I thought,

487
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 1: I thought to myself, I'd never heard of Zoe Daniel.

488
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: And I got to the end of that and I

489
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: think I said to you she was. I really enjoyed that.

490
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: She was really nice, but also her work as a

491
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 1: foreign correspondent and the stuff she's done in her life

492
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,959
Speaker 1: makes it to me makes her really interesting. Yes, and

493
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: I'm kind of really interested in what sort of a

494
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: human it takes to want to be in the political

495
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: space at all, like whether she's on which side of

496
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: the fucking fence or fences?

497
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 2: She said, Oh, I'm with you. I I have zero

498
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 2: interest in being a politician. I think it's the worst.

499
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: I think it's the worst fucking job of all time.

500
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 2: You know, it's I think, fuck that. But anyway, but yeah,

501
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 2: it was I was a little bit surprised. And one

502
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 2: person that I know quite well and it was like,

503
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 2: though I didn't say, but they pretty much said, I'm

504
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 2: disappointed in you. I'm like, oh, fuck, I can't tell

505
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 2: you how many fucks I do not give about your disappointment.

506
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: But anyway, selling you didn't mention anything about which party

507
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: she was representing or any thing at all.

508
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 2: I don't know, did you. It was just feel it

509
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 2: was just that I had her on it was disappointing.

510
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 2: Oh I'm sorry. Fuck, I should have wrung you and

511
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 2: got your seal of approval. How thoughtless of me to

512
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 2: to somebody that didn't get your tick And to that listener,

513
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 2: shout out to you, you know who you are.

514
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: It is a reminder that no matter what we're doing,

515
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: which often people are trying to, especially in today's world

516
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: where everything's everyone's got a profile and a voice of

517
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: some sort, and we want to appeal to everyone, and

518
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: you just can't. It can't kill everyone. It's like, Okay,

519
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: I have to make my decisions on what I think

520
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: and how I think and what I believe in, and

521
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: those and the people who who resonate with my style

522
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: of thinking will will come to me or speak to

523
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: me and talk to me and we will have this

524
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: understanding that for us, that is that is what works.

525
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: And then there will be a whole bunch of other

526
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: people that it's like, that's that's not going to be

527
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: for you. That's there's gonna be a different path, there's

528
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: gonna be different resources.

529
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that I'm going to say something

530
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 2: that will get more nose out of joint. Fuck it.

531
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: I think when people do everything that they can to

532
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 2: be popular, it's a sign of weakness, not integrity. Yeah, right,

533
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 2: I think, fuck you, just say what you you know.

534
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 2: Of course, we need to exercise wisdom and you know,

535
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: not be overly insensitive to anyone. I get all of that,

536
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 2: But don't say shit that you don't believe because you

537
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 2: think that's going to make you popular. And there's so

538
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 2: much fucking insincere, superficial self help, fucking I want to

539
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 2: spew in my own mouth crap right that people wheel

540
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 2: out regularly because they want people to love them, like them,

541
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 2: approve of them. Might do just say what you really think,

542
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 2: you know, B B A. We're and sensitive and if

543
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 2: it's if it's just going to be highly offensive, and

544
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 2: then then don't. But but but you know, if you

545
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 2: think something's shit, that's okay, and if you're wrong, that's okay,

546
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 2: and if you're right, that's okay. But yeah, I think that,

547
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 2: you know, I think that the reason that this show

548
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 2: has done okay is, you know, and it's not the

549
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 2: high watermark for shows, and it's not the ABC and

550
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 2: it's not Joe Rogan and it's not you know whatever,

551
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 2: but we do all right because I think the conversations

552
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 2: are real and raw and clunky and lumpy, and you know,

553
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 2: we get stuff right, we get stuff wrong. We have

554
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 2: interesting chats with interesting people, and I think that, you know,

555
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 2: like you and me are both fucking horrible at selling ourselves, right,

556
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 2: You're not always.

557
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: Sell them myself, bro, look at me.

558
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, you're not bad with You're not bad

559
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: with the posts and the But in terms of like,

560
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 2: you know, my new mentoring program, right, I get uncomfortable

561
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 2: even to go, hey, I'm running a mentor program blah

562
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 2: blah blah, which I should do every single episode, and

563
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 2: every episode I forget to do it. But I think

564
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 2: that I get that. You know, people have got to

565
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 2: sell stuff. By the way, there's nothing wrong with people

566
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 2: selling themselves and programs and products and stuff. But I

567
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 2: think in the middle of your program, your product, your

568
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 2: mentoring group, whatever the fuck it is, just don't say

569
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 2: shit about it that it isn't true, you know. And

570
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 2: if one more self help person promotes themselves as the

571
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 2: dude or the girl who changes lives, I'm like, I'm

572
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: going to spew in my mouth again. I'm like, don't

573
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 2: you don't change lives. You just share thoughts and ideas

574
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 2: that aren't yours anyway, Like you didn't invent psychology, you

575
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 2: didn't invent human behavior. You know, you and I. For

576
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 2: the most part, other than stories that are unique to us,

577
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 2: I am not sharing any information that has never been

578
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 2: revealed to the world. But in terms of knowledge of

579
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 2: human behavior, psychology, physiology, sociology, how humans work and think

580
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 2: and behave and interact and operate, there's nothing new. But

581
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 2: everyone wants to think that they're the genius that's tapped

582
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 2: into the secret of fucking human existence. And it's just

583
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 2: not true. We're all just different, fucking people navigating the

584
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 2: human experience in our own way, falling down, fucking up,

585
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 2: getting up. And some people are going to resonate with

586
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 2: Craig Harper or Tif Cook and some are not. And

587
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 2: some are going to think I'm a prick and some

588
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 2: are going to think I'm a fucking big, lovable fuck

589
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 2: with and whatever. You know. But it's it's and it's

590
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,479
Speaker 2: all okay. But let's just not pretend we're something that

591
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 2: we're not.

592
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yesterday, yesterday, yesterday I caught up with doctor Bill

593
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: God bless him to have my therapy session. It was

594
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: great And the last portion we got to talking, I

595
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: was talking about the program I'm program I'm doing and

596
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: speaking and at the moment, there's a lot of pulling

597
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: out all of my ideas and thoughts and the stuff

598
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: I care about, and like looking under the hood of

599
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: what it means and why it has meaning to me

600
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 1: and how to really get absolute clarity on that so

601
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: that I know that what I'm talking about is landing

602
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: with all the people the way that I actually intended to,

603
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: which I'm loving. I'm loving the process. But I was

604
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 1: talking to him about some of my ideas on resilience,

605
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: and what I loved was he was We had this

606
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: great conversation. So he's done like he's in his seventies,

607
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: he's been a speaker, he's an academic, he's a professor,

608
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: and now he's doing you know, he's kind of doing

609
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: less of that and more just one on one and

610
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 1: living his life, dealing trying to keep me on track

611
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:50,760
Speaker 1: with mine.

612
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 2: We are a fucking full time project.

613
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: But I love talking to him because he's real and

614
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 1: honest and he goes, oh, like, so we were unpacking

615
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 1: what is resilience, what isn't resilience? What's the psychological definition

616
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: of resilience? And I love that. I love doing that

617
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: with different people because I'm like, oh, this for me,

618
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: this is gold. I'm sitting here with a psychotherapist that's

619
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: worked in drug an alcohol rehabilitation, that's worked across the world,

620
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,240
Speaker 1: that's been a professor and an academic, and he's saying

621
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: to me, Yeah, I'm not sure I'm going to go

622
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: and do some research on resilience. Now. I think I

623
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: like the way you're thinking of that. Yeah, it's cool,

624
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: like we go and learn things, we go and to

625
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: do courses to do learning. But I am more interested

626
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: in learning from the inside and from other peoples and

627
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: from perspectives and experiences and going what what does this

628
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: mean for all of the different But not just what

629
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: has somebody written and convinced other people what's just sounded

630
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: good enough to get in a psychology book, but what

631
00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: has today's world real practical in the stuff that in

632
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,720
Speaker 1: the type of people that come to speak to tiff Cook.

633
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: Those people they're going to have a certain they'll be

634
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: certain demographic, or they'll have a certain backstory, they'll have

635
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: some reason to relate to me. So how do I

636
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 1: talk about resilience and encourage resilience and explore resilience with

637
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: them as opposed to handing them to DSM and going

638
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: resilience says yeah, resilience is a showers.

639
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Hey try harder, Brian, Hey, Sally, It'll be

640
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 2: all right. Stiff up a lip. Do you know what's

641
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 2: interesting about that? Doc Telly her Pep Soldier on, you'll

642
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 2: be right good on doctor Bill for being that humble

643
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 2: and aware to go fuck not really sure, but what

644
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 2: is here's a thing that I've learned without trying to

645
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 2: sound like a dick, because I've already said I'm the

646
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 2: world's worst academic, but here's something that I've learned that

647
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 2: I never thought I would learn doing my PhD. So

648
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 2: when I started November one, twenty nineteen, one of the

649
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 2: first because my PhD is essentially in the area of

650
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 2: self awareness, understanding others and self and da, da da,

651
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 2: and I went, well, what I'm going to do is

652
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 2: I'm going to start with just clearly defining self awareness.

653
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: Let's start there. Well, there's no definition. There's thirty two definitions,

654
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 2: there's one hundred, and there's three hundred and thirty. So

655
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 2: you know, like even with resilience, there's what we call convergence.

656
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 2: There's no convergence of definition, and so it just means oh,

657
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 2: there is no like with my research, specifically meta accuracy

658
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 2: and metaperception. I started with because one of the things

659
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: that I was looking at, one of the myriad of

660
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 2: things I'm looking at in one of my papers, which

661
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 2: is called a systematic literature review of the way essentially

662
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 2: that meta accuracy is measured. So in other words, how

663
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 2: good am I in terms of like at understanding how

664
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 2: other people see me? How accurate am I? So I

665
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 2: started with twelve hundred papers that met my search criteria

666
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 2: in these academic search engines, twelve hundred papers Tiffany, and

667
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 2: ended up with one hundred and ten papers and of

668
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 2: the one hundred and ten papers that formed this fucking

669
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 2: gigantic table that me and my research team have created,

670
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 2: and that form that was the starting point for this,

671
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 2: which is what currently is a seventy two page academic

672
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 2: paper on blah blah blah. Right, here's the thing. Even

673
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 2: with that very specific thing, metaaccuracy, there's no unifying definition.

674
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 2: So the funny thing is you think, oh, like, if

675
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 2: you're not like you're a I would call you a

676
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 2: like a casual researcher, Like you're not an academic researcher,

677
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,399
Speaker 2: but you do research right in your own are using

678
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 2: your own tools and resource sources. But you think, let

679
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 2: me get the actual definition. Well, there is no especially

680
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:11,439
Speaker 2: in psychology. And as I mean, and this is I've

681
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 2: said this before, I have a love hate relationship with

682
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:19,720
Speaker 2: psychology because human behavior is fucking fascinating. I do endeavor

683
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 2: to understand it first, you know, seek first to understand right,

684
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 2: and then to be understood. But then we know that

685
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 2: it's from from a straight science point of view. You

686
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 2: and I can run the same test on the same

687
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 2: person four days in a row from a psychometric evaluation

688
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 2: point of view, and we're going to get four different

689
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 2: sets of data, you know what I mean. So it's

690
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 2: not because it's not consistent. Whereas you know, if we

691
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: do the same test in physics, we're going to get

692
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 2: the same result. You know, if I drop my phone

693
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 2: right now to the floor, it's going to fall to

694
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 2: the floor at nine point eight one meters per second

695
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 2: because that's how fast things fall, give or take, and

696
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 2: it's going to hit the floor one hundred times out

697
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 2: of one hundred. Right, So in certain sciences it's very reliable,

698
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 2: it's very predictable, it's very consistent. The problem with psychology

699
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:22,760
Speaker 2: is humans are not static. Humans are dynamic emotionally, psychologically, sociologically, physiologically,

700
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 2: not even to the point where you could do an

701
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 2: IQ test at eight o'clock in the morning and you'll

702
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,760
Speaker 2: score ten points higher than you do at eight o'clock

703
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 2: in the evening, but you're the same person. But then

704
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 2: what we do is we go, oh, unequivocally, TIFF's IQ

705
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,479
Speaker 2: is one seventeen, Well, no, it's actually one twenty seven

706
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,959
Speaker 2: in the morning or one fuer ninety seven, doesn't matter,

707
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 2: or no, Craig is Craig's got this, or Craig's got that. Well,

708
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 2: if you tested him on a different day, you might

709
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 2: find out he doesn't have that. So it's a you know,

710
00:40:55,719 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 2: the whole world of psychological research and defining things like

711
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 2: resilience or self awareness. It's a very kind of dynamic landscape.

712
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 2: It's not as hard and fast as people think.

713
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: I wrote down when you were talking about that, I

714
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 1: wrote down self understanding, behavior, priming, and manipulation. And because

715
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: I was thinking of things, so with an interaction with

716
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: a person, all of those things are happening beneath the surface,

717
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: and we all have different levels of self fantasy. How

718
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: much do I understand myself? And then I was thinking

719
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: of back when I first started working with you, and

720
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: you know, like I would remember that time you were like,

721
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: sometimes I feel like you are pissed off or example,

722
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: I was like, sometimes I am harps and I haven't

723
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: figured it out yet and I know it. So there

724
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 1: were so many times when I was like, what, I

725
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: have this emotional reaction and I don't know what's me

726
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,879
Speaker 1: and what's real. I don't know what's Craig and what's

727
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 1: my shit that I'm just unaware of. And I know

728
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: that there were times at first where was like I'd

729
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,280
Speaker 1: be in the fucking zoom room waiting and excited as fuck,

730
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: and you'd slide in straight from another meeting, right on

731
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: time to start, and I'd be like, does let me

732
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: give a fuck because people that are late with me?

733
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 1: I had a thing about it, and whether or not

734
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,760
Speaker 1: I know the reality of it, that meant that something

735
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: switched inside me, and whether I liked it or not,

736
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: I was a bit fucking bottom lip out, sad and

737
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: maybe a bit angry and pissed off. And I'm like,

738
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: it's such a fucking asshole. He doesn't even want to

739
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: say hi, to me first he just comes in and

740
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 1: then I'll just fucking go and edit the pod. You know,

741
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: it was like, but I'd leave that and go you

742
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: know that's not reality, but it would still happen. So

743
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: we have all of this stuff. So that's hard to

744
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: measure in psychology when you go, okay, we'll let's set

745
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 1: up all these ways to measure meta accuracy. But even

746
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 1: my experience of interactions with people in the moment and

747
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 1: then walking away and processing and different understanding of them

748
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: because I'm not dissociated like I've had times where I

749
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: accommodate and say yes to everything because that was a

750
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: thing that it was a coping mechanism that happened from

751
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 1: being a kid and being needed and wanted and abandonment

752
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: and all the things. And then I got older and

753
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: I got to a point where I was like, I

754
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: do that. I need to learn to say can I

755
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: think about it? Because I keep getting a day later

756
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:27,240
Speaker 1: and going, fuck.

757
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:28,280
Speaker 2: What the hell did.

758
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 1: I say yes to that? What do I always say

759
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: yes to that person? I don't even want to do that.

760
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 1: That's not good for me. Yeah, So yeah, I think

761
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: with those self evaluations, you're measuring stuff in one moment

762
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 1: that and people's levels of self knowledge and understanding are

763
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: changing all the time.

764
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 2: So what is really good about what you just said

765
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 2: is all of that's true, And it's funny because people

766
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 2: would think that. And you and I have never really

767
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 2: had a problem. But there's been a few lumps and

768
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,280
Speaker 2: bumps here and there, but nothing bad or relationship threatening

769
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 2: or But the truth is that, well, one, I can

770
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 2: be difficult, that's absolutely true. Two, you can be difficult,

771
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 2: that's absolutely true. You like no, But this is what

772
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 2: we've got to like. Do I ever get off and

773
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 2: think fucking tif No, I don't think that. I would

774
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 2: more likely to think are fucking me? I'm more likely

775
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 2: to think that. Right. But the thing is that whatever

776
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 2: is going on between you and whoever, you and me,

777
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 2: you and your mum, you and your client, you are

778
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 2: only ever capable of analyzing it subjectively. Yeah, because you

779
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 2: you're you, So you're looking at it through the through

780
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 2: your bias the people that did this to you or

781
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 2: didn't do that to you, and your beliefs, and you're

782
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 2: you could be in a shitty mood because you're twenty

783
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 2: three percent angry and whatever. Right now, I could do

784
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 2: the exact same thing on a different day, your response

785
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 2: would be very different because on that day you're very

786
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 2: different or you're somewhat different. But what is good about

787
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 2: all of this and this is this is beautiful what's

788
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 2: going on right now, because this is how people need

789
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 2: to talk. I think about. Look, you did this and

790
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 2: I got pissed off. Maybe it was you, maybe it

791
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 2: was me, Maybe it was a bit of both of us.

792
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but this is how we have real

793
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 2: relationships and real conversations and with our friends and with

794
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:34,760
Speaker 2: our colleagues and with our family about what is really

795
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 2: going on or you know. And it's not like I

796
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 2: felt this. You made me feel. No, you didn't make

797
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 2: me do anything. This happened, and as a result, this

798
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 2: is how I felt. Now. I don't know how much

799
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 2: of that is you, how much of that is me.

800
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 2: It's probably all me. But my response was But once

801
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 2: I got over myself and I went and you know,

802
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 2: distilled it and thought about it a little bit, I

803
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 2: realized it was many me or but and there been

804
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 2: times with you where I have thought about things and

805
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 2: I've come back and I've said to you, Okay, this

806
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 2: is how I'm feeling I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong,

807
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 2: but I would tell you one. So, for example, this

808
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:15,399
Speaker 2: is something that you and I have spoken about a bit,

809
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 2: and I'll share with the listeners one hundred percent of transparency.

810
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 2: I have had a very long history of people being

811
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 2: my best friend as long as I'm useful to them.

812
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 2: You and I have had that chat, right, And so

813
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 2: I'm a bit wary of people who are all love

814
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 2: and light and Jesus and unicorns to me. Oh, harp,

815
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 2: sure this, harp, sure that, and ha ha ha ha,

816
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 2: and we're all bestie buddies, and then my used by

817
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 2: date runs out. Now I can't help them anymore, or

818
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 2: open any more doors for them, or introduce them to

819
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 2: any more people, or give them any more professional leg ups.

820
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 2: I've done everything I can do for them. Then they

821
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 2: stop reaching out. I'm like, oh, oh, that wasn't a

822
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 2: friend at all, right, And I've shared that with you,

823
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 2: and obviously you're not one of those people. But so

824
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 2: that for me, where I'm I'm in terms of opening

825
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 2: the door me opening the door like the Craig door,

826
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 2: the fucking just to my heart to where I care

827
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 2: about people. You know, I don't open that door that often.

828
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I feel compelled to help

829
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 2: and serve people, but I expect very little back, you know.

830
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 2: But you and I have spoken about that, and you

831
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 2: did a couple of things which you weren't actually doing

832
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 2: anything wrong, but because of my history, I got upset,

833
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,240
Speaker 2: not upset, but probably I got a little bit oh

834
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 2: oh oh fuck, no, no, I'm not here again, am I?

835
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 2: And but then you know, when we understand more, then

836
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 2: we connect more, then we go oh like, that's why

837
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 2: I say to people, And I know we bang on

838
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 2: it about a lot, but you know, theory of mind

839
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 2: is understanding how others think. Well, fuck, let's try that,

840
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 2: you know. And because I understand you pretty well, not completely,

841
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 2: not totally and not flawlessly, but I understand you pretty

842
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,359
Speaker 2: well after whatever six years or whatever it is, and

843
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 2: so I have a pretty good idea of how to

844
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 2: build rapport and connection and trust with you and have

845
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 2: a conversation with you, and you know, like, what's the word,

846
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 2: have the most kind of healthy relationship we can have

847
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:42,919
Speaker 2: without that sounding strategic. But at the same time, here's

848
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:48,760
Speaker 2: an interesting thing. People think that a strategic relationship is bad. Well,

849
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 2: it's only bad if you're pretending it's not strategic. So

850
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 2: I think, like, for example, I love my mum and

851
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 2: dad unconditionally, but I need to be strategic about how

852
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 2: I talk to my dad, because if I need to

853
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,399
Speaker 2: be thoughtful about where I go and where I don't

854
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 2: go conversationally, and if I don't have some kind of

855
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 2: ron strategy, not that it's insincere or fake, but there's

856
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 2: going to be a shitfest every time I see them,

857
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:21,760
Speaker 2: because we don't see either to eye on some things.

858
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,439
Speaker 2: But my strategy in inverted commas is that every time

859
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 2: I see my dad, it's good. I'm not going to

860
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 2: say anything that's going to ruffle feathers. I'm not going

861
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 2: to you know, I'm not necessarily going to agree with

862
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 2: everything either. But my strategy is that seeing Dad, for

863
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 2: him and for me and for Mom is a good experience. Right,

864
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 2: So I think in that way we can be strategic.

865
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:46,720
Speaker 2: You go into a meeting, do you have a strategy

866
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 2: how I want to create a good outcome? Well, that's

867
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 2: a good that's a good intention. But we're talking about

868
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,839
Speaker 2: those kind of hidden strategies and agendas where you're pretending

869
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 2: that it's one thing, but actually underneath there's an agenda

870
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 2: that you're not being open about.

871
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: And people don't tend to actively plan or deconstruct this

872
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 1: stuff after the moment, So we have interactions. People piss

873
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: us off, and then we go and we vent because

874
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: there's tensions. So we have a vent to someone this

875
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 1: person always says this, and then that dissipates, and then

876
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:27,760
Speaker 1: we let it go and it continues it to cycle.

877
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: We never go like the step is, well, okay, I'm

878
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: going to react, like our emotions don't lie. If we

879
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 1: emotionally react to somebody's treatment, well that's happening. And if

880
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:44,720
Speaker 1: it's keeping on keeping, If it's happening, if it's keeping

881
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: on happening.

882
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 2: Well welcome back to English with tiff lesson for.

883
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 1: But if it's going to continue to happen, you have

884
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 1: to address it right. So you can't. You can't just

885
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: wrestle your emotions. If something is making them react, so

886
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 1: they're happening. That's the truth. It's your job to go, Okay,

887
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:09,799
Speaker 1: how do I address this situation? What conversation do I

888
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,359
Speaker 1: need to have? How do I manage my emotions next

889
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 1: time they rise in the moment? And then how do

890
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: I express that to someone you did it to me

891
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 1: in the beginning, when I'd made a joke about something

892
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:24,800
Speaker 1: and you rang me up and said, I know, I'm.

893
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 2: Pretty sure you were just joke.

894
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 1: You were having a joke. But that topic you joked about,

895
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: you said, that's one that's not a good topic for

896
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,359
Speaker 1: me to fed a joke about. So and I remember that.

897
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 1: I talk about that, you doing that a lot because

898
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 1: that was a lesson for me. I went, I got goosebumps.

899
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 2: Now.

900
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:42,919
Speaker 1: I was like, I never want someone to feel hurt

901
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,399
Speaker 1: by something I'm joking. Like if I know that now,

902
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: So I learned. So it's but we don't want to

903
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: do that because it's scary, because it's confronting, because it's

904
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: a difficult conversation. But it's like, well, it's either that

905
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,879
Speaker 1: or you'll continue having the emotional disruption and then you'll

906
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: fracture the relationship. But the other person will be a

907
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: fucking when they're probably really not. It's just not being communicated.

908
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,919
Speaker 2: There's another part to that, which is when you said

909
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:15,320
Speaker 2: the emotions are real, it's true, they are real, of course,

910
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 2: but then the question is are they helpful or is

911
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 2: the emotional response disproportionate to the stimulus, Like, is my

912
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 2: emotional reaction kind of appropriate? You know? It's like you

913
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 2: might go, I don't know, you might say something offhand,

914
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 2: a little whatever, and you're not at all, and then

915
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 2: I lose my shit. Well that's true, I lost my shit.

916
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 2: I'm angry. That's true, but it's inappropriate. So there's that

917
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 2: we do need to acknowledge our emotions, but we also

918
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 2: need to be curious about them, because some of our

919
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,399
Speaker 2: emotions serve us and some of us fucking sabotage us.

920
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 2: So it's true to say, yes, this emotion is real,

921
00:52:57,719 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 2: and I don't want to deny it, but it doesn't

922
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 2: mean and that's right.

923
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, And just because you're having conversation with someone about

924
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that they have to change it. Might

925
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:12,839
Speaker 1: you might just be saying, hey, when this happens, this

926
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 1: happens for me. I realize that's not a youth thing.

927
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 1: But I just want you to know so that you

928
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 1: understand what might be happening for me in that moment.

929
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: And I'm working on that. But that can be a resolve.

930
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 1: But we brush things under the carpet and it doesn't

931
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 1: fix anything.

932
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:31,759
Speaker 2: I feel like you and I right now are in

933
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,320
Speaker 2: the middle of a dual therapy session for each other,

934
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 2: and I definitely am.

935
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to get some of that shit out

936
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:39,879
Speaker 1: from under my car, but I've been sweeping under there

937
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 1: for forty years.

938
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 2: It is it is really interesting. It is interesting how

939
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 2: how we think outwardly and how we think inwardly, and

940
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 2: you know, the stuff that we're happy to share and

941
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:58,879
Speaker 2: the stuff that we're you know, because we're always are

942
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 2: we always I think think we're kind of always worried

943
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 2: about how people see us. So because of that, or

944
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 2: at least aware of how people say this, which is

945
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:11,840
Speaker 2: not a terrible thing, of course, So I think there's

946
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 2: you know, it's like I said to Zoey Daniel the

947
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 2: other day, Zoey Daniels the other day about like, at

948
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:21,439
Speaker 2: the same time, she wants to be this real and

949
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 2: raw and authentic human, as we all do, but also

950
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 2: she's got this brand and this persona, and she's a

951
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 2: politician and she's in federal government and she's you know,

952
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 2: it's like, how do you manage that? Because like it

953
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 2: or not, there is a persona that doesn't mean you're

954
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 2: being fake or fraudulent, but also underneath that is a

955
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:47,240
Speaker 2: real person. And this is the this is the line

956
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:49,880
Speaker 2: that we walk, especially when you and I are not

957
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 2: famous and we're no big deal, but we have a

958
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 2: little tiny voice in, you know, in that we do

959
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 2: these these things that we do these podcasts, and people

960
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 2: listen to Wiston, Like you want to be like you

961
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 2: simultaneously want to be liked and respected and loved and

962
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:10,319
Speaker 2: all of those things because you're human, but also you

963
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 2: want people to know you really, you know, like know

964
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:19,359
Speaker 2: me like I'm not like I'm I'm hopefully like I'm

965
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 2: not the guy that's just trying to scam you or

966
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 2: sell you shit or you know, I know I'm not

967
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 2: that guy, but you can't Like if you say that,

968
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 2: then you sound like an idiot. But then if you

969
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 2: you know, and in the middle of all of this,

970
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 2: you know, then somebody will send me, Oh, I bet

971
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:39,799
Speaker 2: you're not doing those fucking corporate gigs for free. Well, no,

972
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 2: I actually need to have a job. So that is

973
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 2: my job. Is that alright with you? Like? What are you?

974
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 2: You're a plumber? Do you un do you clean poo

975
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 2: out of pipes for free? Or do you charge? You know,

976
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 2: It's like, what do you want me to do? It's

977
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 2: like I've done nearly two thousand podcasts for free. I've

978
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 2: written fucking a trill in post giving free advice and

979
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:05,359
Speaker 2: inspiration and education for free. I do a lot of shit,

980
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 2: you know. It's like I can't do everything for free

981
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 2: because I've got to eat, I've got to pay bills.

982
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 2: So but what I do do, based on my values

983
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 2: and my internal sat NAB is I pretty much do

984
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 2: as much free stuff as I can, you know, And

985
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 2: but beyond that, I just start to fuck up my

986
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 2: own life, you know. So it doesn't need to be

987
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 2: one or the other. And I've said this to people before.

988
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 2: I can go in and do a whole day with

989
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 2: NAB and charge them a fucking fortune because and I

990
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 2: never say this, but one I'm good at it, and

991
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 2: two they can afford it. And bibbity bobbity booth, thanks

992
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:46,239
Speaker 2: for the dough and they say, thanks, Harps, you were great.

993
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 2: We're all happy. But then I can go and you know,

994
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 2: do something else where. It's just that gift of giving

995
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:56,280
Speaker 2: and it's beautiful and I'm not only am I okay

996
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 2: with it? It's important to me.

997
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:03,880
Speaker 1: We also when the right people are open to that, okay, Nob'

998
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 1: spending that money anyway, never buying someone to do that job.

999
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 1: So why not have a person that's going to make

1000
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: a difference.

1001
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And well you know you try to and

1002
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 2: you think I did that gig last week? Was it

1003
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 2: last week? For I think I told you women in

1004
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 2: print shout out to the women in print. That was

1005
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 2: so good.

1006
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 1: That was me for a long time.

1007
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 2: Well what do you mean? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.

1008
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 2: And they were ace and like you know, I mean,

1009
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 2: I just get up there and I talk. There's no PowerPoint,

1010
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:39,439
Speaker 2: there's no I don't half the time, like I might

1011
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 2: have one page with some dot points or not. It

1012
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 2: usually stays in my pocket. And anyway, I just talking.

1013
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 2: At the end of it, you know, everyone's like the

1014
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 2: feedback was good. Everyone enjoyed it. And I said, you know,

1015
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 2: did you enjoy that? Yep? Was it relevant? Yeah? You

1016
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 2: know your bits inspired? Yep, that's cool. And I go, look,

1017
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 2: I'm really glad you liked it. And I'm glad you

1018
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 2: like me because I'm wildly insecure. So thank you for

1019
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 2: liking me and giving me approval. But here's what I

1020
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 2: want to tell you, actually matters me turning up and

1021
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 2: talking to you for an hour. Really, that's me doing

1022
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 2: a job, and I get money and I do my thing.

1023
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 2: But what I really care about is what you do next.

1024
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 2: And I said, so, I've just given you an hour

1025
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 2: of feared. Life's not a theory. And I hope that

1026
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:28,920
Speaker 2: the feedback's good, and I hope people go, oh, that

1027
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 2: Craig Harper guy was good, and the whole morning was great,

1028
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 2: and the Brecky was nice and the host you know,

1029
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 2: and it's all it's a good experience and that's great,

1030
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 2: but really what matters is what you do over the

1031
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 2: next week to five, ten, twenty weeks. And a few

1032
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:45,920
Speaker 2: people came up and said to me later, thank you

1033
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:48,479
Speaker 2: for saying that stuff at the end, And I said, well,

1034
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 2: that's the stuff that moves the needle. If I tell

1035
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 2: great stories and I'm funny and inspiring and then everybody

1036
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 2: forgets what I've said ten minutes after it's done. Well,

1037
00:58:57,960 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 2: you can't apply what you can't remember, and if you

1038
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 2: don't apply it, you can't create change. So I want

1039
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 2: to really impress yes, me turning up doing my job.

1040
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 2: I'm glad you enjoyed it, but that's not important. I'm

1041
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 2: not important. Even what I said is not important unless

1042
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 2: you can operationalize that to create some kind of shift

1043
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 2: on planet you, which is why we do personal and

1044
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 2: professional development so that we might help people create some

1045
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 2: kind of shift. I feel like we're done? Are we done?

1046
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 2: Have we just hit the the conversational finish line? Did

1047
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 2: I see your chin? Touch the tape?

1048
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 1: We've we've just flown past the jack and flag.

1049
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:45,440
Speaker 2: You're like the You're like the gout gout of conversations.

1050
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 2: I was doing great. I was doing great, and you

1051
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 2: just fucking blew by me. And yeah, what's your word again?

1052
00:59:55,760 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 2: That slipped me? Happening, happening? You just have and right

1053
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 2: past me.

1054
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to copyright that word. That's happening.

1055
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 2: I think I don't know who's hosting today, you or me.

1056
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 2: I think you started, but so you can sign off

1057
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 2: for us.

1058
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: Thanks everyone, Thanks Hart, Thanks Tiff. Don't forget Harps's new

1059
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 1: workshop coming up on April twenty eight, Is that right?

1060
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 2: Yah? Oh? Thanks shit. It's going to be great. I'm

1061
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 2: going to be there. You should come. It's going to

1062
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 2: change your life. It's incredible. There's never been a mentoring

1063
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 2: program like it. It's fucking life changing, just like unicorns.

1064
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 2: And shit come along. Imagine if we did that. All right,

1065
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:50,120
Speaker 2: Thanks tif so yeah,