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Speaker 1: Oh, get your bloody champions. Craig, Anthony Harper, Tiffany and

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Speaker 1: Cook and Blake. I'm not sure what's your middle name? Blake,

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Speaker 1: Christian Blake, Blake, Christian Eastman, Christian.

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Speaker 2: What a good name.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with the girl in the top left corner

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Speaker 1: on mice Green, Tiffany and Cook, the pugilistic thug, the

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Speaker 1: one that gets angry.

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Speaker 2: How are you? I'm not hungry, I've eaten well. But

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Speaker 2: do you want to tell everyone how you gave me

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Speaker 2: a stern talking to to behave myself this morning? What

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Speaker 2: was it about my morning energy that provoked that?

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Speaker 1: What did I say? I can't remember what I said?

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Speaker 2: What do I say? You behave yourself this morning? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Well, because you're a lot, you're a handful, and we've

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Speaker 1: got an we've got a guest, we've got.

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Speaker 2: Someone from os and you know how excited you get.

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Speaker 1: You know when we get smart, clever, handsome, dynamic people,

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Speaker 1: and you get a little bit out of control. So

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Speaker 1: I need to It's like working with tiff Blake is

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Speaker 1: like hurting trying to herd cats. It's just an exercise

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Speaker 1: in frustration. But how are you? How are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm great? Good day, beautiful day out. Just did a

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Speaker 2: did a long run this morning and a workout and

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Speaker 2: just feel good. Perfect.

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Speaker 1: How far do you run? How often do you run?

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Speaker 1: And how far do you run?

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Speaker 2: I used to train for like ultra events, so I

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Speaker 2: would run like sixty miles a week, but I stopped

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Speaker 2: that for like the last year, and this is the

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Speaker 2: first time I'm starting to pick up running again. So

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Speaker 2: I like to optimize around five k times. Yep, so

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Speaker 2: just trying to run a solid five k I don't

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Speaker 2: I don't really love the long term or the sort

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Speaker 2: of dedication and time requirements are running like yeah all

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Speaker 2: the time, you know, so I prefer the shorter, harder,

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Speaker 2: quicker runs. Hey, I'm speaking of that.

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Speaker 1: This has got nothing to do with our interview, but

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Speaker 1: you might both find this interesting because one of you

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Speaker 1: is a runner and one of you is a trina.

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Speaker 1: So I didn't know this. This happened a year ago,

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Speaker 1: but listen to this. So there's a guy called alexandor Soriken.

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Speaker 1: This is almost impossible, but he ran one hundred kilometers right,

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Speaker 1: so sixty two miles or something blake in six hours

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Speaker 1: and five minutes. So he ran a hundred k's in

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Speaker 1: six hours and five minutes. His average mile time Blake

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Speaker 1: was five point fifty three average, right, So Tiff, that

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Speaker 1: means he was running two hour thirty three marathons back

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Speaker 1: to back.

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Speaker 2: Plus Wow, how the fuck does a human being do that? Now,

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Speaker 2: there's just some There's just some people. Like when I

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Speaker 2: would do some of these events, I'd be like running

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Speaker 2: alongside the pros and they'd be like they'd look at

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Speaker 2: me and they'd be like, you're looking great, Like what

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Speaker 2: lap is this for you? And I'm like, lap number three?

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Speaker 2: What about you? And they're like, oh, I'm my number nine,

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Speaker 2: but I'm going to be I'm like, what the hell,

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Speaker 2: It's just a completely different dynamics. Some people are just

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Speaker 2: built for certain things and then they train and get

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Speaker 2: more precise and hold their craft. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, I always say, hang out with people

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Speaker 1: who drag you up, so it's good for you to

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Speaker 1: train with. My training partner for the last twenty years

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Speaker 1: has been a guy that's a former pro bodybuilder, one

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Speaker 1: of the strongest, best physiques in Australia, blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: And he's better than me. He's always been better than me.

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Speaker 1: He'll always be better than me. But I like it

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Speaker 1: because when I train with him, I kind of get

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Speaker 1: carried along in the momentum.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's not the worst thing. It's not the

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Speaker 2: worst thing. It's so true. It's like one of my

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Speaker 2: favorite things to do is like run or box or

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Speaker 2: whatever with people so much better than you and just

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Speaker 2: tell them that, like I'm going to try to and

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Speaker 2: I might be like a mile behind them, but it's

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Speaker 2: still something to chase, which is so much easier than

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Speaker 2: just running on your own.

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Speaker 1: What's that saying. If you're the smartest person in the room,

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Speaker 1: go to another room.

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Speaker 2: The same thing with everything, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, So tell us about you. Give us

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Speaker 1: a snapshot rather than me read out some bio, tell

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Speaker 1: us a little bit about your background, who you are,

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Speaker 1: what you do, and then then we'll do a deep

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Speaker 1: dive into some of your research and some of your works.

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Speaker 1: I find it really fascinating.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so names Blake Eastman. I run a behavioral research

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Speaker 2: company called the Non Verbal Group. I was my background's

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Speaker 2: in forensic psychology. I was an adjunct professor for six years,

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Speaker 2: and I have done a bunch of different projects related

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Speaker 2: to sort of more deeply understanding human So one was

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Speaker 2: the largest behavioral study ever conducted on poker players, which

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Speaker 2: is I work with some of the best poker players

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Speaker 2: in the world on teaching them how to read their opponents.

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Speaker 2: And then my company, the Non Verbal Group recently has

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Speaker 2: another like incubated startup out of it called Behavioral Robotics,

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Speaker 2: and we're using a lot of computer vision and machine

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Speaker 2: learning to sort of break down human communication or human

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Speaker 2: movement and behavior into very specific movements. And I my

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Speaker 2: business is a lot of things. I work with a

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Speaker 2: lot of high level companies and organizations, coach teams and executives,

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Speaker 2: and our main mechanism for helping people is video. So

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Speaker 2: we do a lot of video analysis and tend to

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Speaker 2: just show people the same way a coach, which you know,

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Speaker 2: when you're punching saying like your shoulders are too high

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Speaker 2: or whatever like they we use video as a mechanism

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Speaker 2: for that. And I'm very uh, I guess I'm like

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Speaker 2: the most anti body language advice person. So there's just

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Speaker 2: a lot of bullshit out there that I try to

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Speaker 2: explain the nuance you'll appreciate this. There's like you know,

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Speaker 2: there's there's like academia on one side, and then there's

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Speaker 2: like the thought leader coaching public facing thing on the

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Speaker 2: other side, and it's like the middle is like a

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Speaker 2: complete mess because people take academic research and like spin

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Speaker 2: it to their own narrative and they're not really understanding it.

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Speaker 2: And then some of the academics I study this stuff

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Speaker 2: for a living, couldn't have an actual conversation with me

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Speaker 2: or you and not be awkward, like it's just fascinating,

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Speaker 2: like the whole back in front of dynamics. So just

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Speaker 2: try to really help people can act with each other. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of space between the actual research

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Speaker 1: and then what gets spoken about, and you know, what

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Speaker 1: gets wheeled out as research or science is often pretty

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Speaker 1: far from that. I guess you're I think I saw

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Speaker 1: you talk about the it was it Paul Eckman that

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Speaker 1: did that research? And how many times you've been asked

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Speaker 1: about the lie to me stuff. You must get sick

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Speaker 1: of talking about that. So are you telling me that

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Speaker 1: all that stuff about micro expressions and body language and

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Speaker 1: the science around that is kind of rubbish.

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Speaker 2: It's it's not that it's rubbed well, there's so many

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Speaker 2: layers to this. So first of all, a lot of

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Speaker 2: that if you describe the more classical discoveries or insights

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Speaker 2: into human emotion. A lot of contemporary research in neuroscience

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Speaker 2: is sort of contradictory to those claims. So it's like

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Speaker 2: maker expressions definitely exist. It's not that they don't exist,

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Speaker 2: it's just the meaning that their user what we're deriving

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Speaker 2: from them is heavily up for debate. And I have

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Speaker 2: like my own opinions about all of this stuff, but

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Speaker 2: there is, like it is a pretty heated debate in

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Speaker 2: academia because people have dedicated their entire lives towards sort

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Speaker 2: of mapping facial expressions and understanding the universality of emotions,

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Speaker 2: and then newer people are like, eh, that's all wrong.

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Speaker 2: Not like you're kind of right. It's like your thesis

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Speaker 2: is completely wrong, the methodology you use, the way that

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Speaker 2: you look at emotions is completely wrong. And I tend

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Speaker 2: to be somewhere not in the middle. I would say

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Speaker 2: somewhere like seventy percent on the side of that more

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Speaker 2: contemporary theory, but I still think that the other side

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Speaker 2: has usefulness. But yeah, it's it's a it is a

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Speaker 2: rabbit hole. So like you did metaicog, you said you're

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Speaker 2: you're doing a PID.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I met obceptions, so I'm trying to understand

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Speaker 1: that you experience. So the core question at the Cinemon

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Speaker 1: research Blanke is essentially, what's it like being around me

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Speaker 1: for others? So, what's the Craig experience like for Blake?

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Speaker 1: What's the Craig experience like for my listeners? How well

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Speaker 1: do I understand me for them? Essentially?

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Speaker 2: I love it. I mean, it's kind of a lot

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Speaker 2: of the workout I do. I mean it boils back

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Speaker 2: to this. I think one of the more interesting theories

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Speaker 2: right now is predictive processing or active inference BASY and brain.

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Speaker 2: Basically the fact that we're seeing, we're creating our reality

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Speaker 2: through all of our past models for the world. And

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Speaker 2: that's why I could take one hundred people that you've

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Speaker 2: never met before, put you in a room with them,

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Speaker 2: and then ninety are like, fucking guys, amazing, I have

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Speaker 2: such a good time, and ten are like I hate

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Speaker 2: that guy right, Like yeah, oh why? Like you know,

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Speaker 2: So that's what my companys are really about. It's not

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Speaker 2: about meaning. It's about mapping the perceptual distributions or bell curves.

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Speaker 2: So it's like, oh, in Northeastern America, if you're in

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Speaker 2: New York City, Why do these certain sets of behaviors

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Speaker 2: in these contexts lead someone to be arrogant, where in

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Speaker 2: another culture it's respect. Like there's just so much nuance

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Speaker 2: in this But even the way that people see the

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Speaker 2: world so differently, there are definitely themes. So like I

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Speaker 2: can predict who's not liked on a team with a

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Speaker 2: high accuracy just based on facial movement, because there's themes

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Speaker 2: of like social coordination and all these things that people

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Speaker 2: do to let them know that they're listening and all

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Speaker 2: this other stuff.

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Speaker 1: And there's also the space between what's going on around us,

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Speaker 1: you know, the event, the objective data, the situation, the circumstance,

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Speaker 1: the other person, and our story or our subjective interpretation

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Speaker 1: or perspective. But so that's going on, there's the thing

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Speaker 1: that's happening, and then there's my version of it. But

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Speaker 1: quite often I don't realize it's my version. I think

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Speaker 1: it's the thing. So when we don't realize that what's

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Speaker 1: going on for me is just a subjective experience of

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Speaker 1: an object the event, then we mistake our personal reality

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Speaker 1: for the global.

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Speaker 2: Reality, right exactly, And like we've built models to identify

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Speaker 2: when people are like. So, for example, one of our models,

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Speaker 2: I've forgot all the keywords, but one of the big

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Speaker 2: ones is the words should. So like when analyzing interactions

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Speaker 2: is like, well, Craig should have done this, Craig should

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Speaker 2: which is basically someone like forcing their perception or perspective

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Speaker 2: on how you should act and it's nice. So there's

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Speaker 2: like little cues and clues in people's language to sort

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Speaker 2: of suggest how how they process their world around them.

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Speaker 2: I put up a thing on.

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Speaker 1: Instagram yesterday other day before, I have this propensity right

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Speaker 1: on whiteboard's blake, and then I photograph what I have

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Speaker 1: written and then I put it up right. So and

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Speaker 1: that's kind of become a thing that people like. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: I put up a thing on my whiteboard and it said,

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Speaker 1: assuming that people think a certain way because you think

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Speaker 1: a certain way is like assuming someone has a soil

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Speaker 1: back because you have a soul back, right, yep. So

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Speaker 1: there's this kind of phenomena that or phenomenon that you know,

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Speaker 1: what's called a false consensus effect, where people just think

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Speaker 1: that other people think like them, right, And that's problematic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's at the core of It's like one

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Speaker 2: of the things I'm constantly hammering into people's sort of

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Speaker 2: approach to other people is it's just this concept of perspective.

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Speaker 2: So like I really there really is no right or wrong.

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Speaker 2: It's just all a perspective. It's like depending on where

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Speaker 2: you're standing from, and sometimes in order to connect to

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Speaker 2: someone and really understand how they're processing information, you need

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Speaker 2: to understand their perspective without making them wrong, without calling

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Speaker 2: them an idiot, without saying your perspective is right. And

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Speaker 2: it just takes a little bit more if the reduced

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Speaker 2: your sort of traditional approaches to interactions in order to

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Speaker 2: actually do that. And it's a skill set. It's a

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Speaker 2: skill set that a lot of you know, good leaders

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Speaker 2: and people that have like networks and are well connected

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Speaker 2: and living Greek lives have, and some people that just don't.

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Speaker 2: And the world doesn't function the way that you want

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Speaker 2: it to. It's just not what reality actually is.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that sometimes I love that? Do you

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Speaker 1: think that sometimes people feel you know that one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite sayings is, which has been wheeled out a

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Speaker 1: million times in a weillion different, million different kind of formats,

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Speaker 1: But seek first to understand and then to be understood,

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Speaker 1: you know, like the whole kind of theory of mind

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Speaker 1: thing of just trying to understand how other people think.

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Speaker 1: And when I suggest that to people, they're like na.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they're like, well, fuck them. I don't want to,

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Speaker 1: you know, because I'm like, I'm not saying I want

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Speaker 1: you to agree with them or join their team. I'm

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Speaker 1: just saying, you can't overcome what you don't understand, or

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Speaker 1: you can't navigate what you don't understand.

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Speaker 2: So let's just start.

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Speaker 1: Let's open the understanding and the awareness bigger than you

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Speaker 1: door so that you can you know, you can go

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Speaker 1: shite and navigate and interact with other people that I'm

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Speaker 1: not like you and don't.

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Speaker 2: Think like you. Yeah, I mean, the theory of the

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Speaker 2: theory of mind thing is just it's so interesting in

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Speaker 2: the sense that I feel like some people like there's

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Speaker 2: this whole concept around like developmental psychology where you know,

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Speaker 2: the age where you develop theory of mind, right, like

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Speaker 2: the kid that sits in front of the table and

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Speaker 2: you're like move, sits in front of the TV and

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Speaker 2: you're like, move, what are you doing? You're blocking everybody

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Speaker 2: and they just don't have the conceptual understanding that they're

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Speaker 2: blocking their world. And I think it's probably a way

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Speaker 2: more nuanced thing in the sense that some people in

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Speaker 2: certain contexts just they don't develop theory of mind like I.

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Speaker 2: And we have some assessments and some tests we put

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Speaker 2: people through, and like I'll show there's just one video

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Speaker 2: of this, uh, this man and woman talking and the

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Speaker 2: guy is just for a better lack of words, just

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Speaker 2: really being a dick, like you know, the nonverbal tone,

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Speaker 2: the assert like he's just being rude, he's being a

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Speaker 2: he said, he's being all these things. And you know,

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Speaker 2: show that to most people and you say, what's going

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Speaker 2: on in this? They'll be like, oh, you know his

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Speaker 2: tone this You show them to certain people and they're like,

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Speaker 2: what's wrong with what he said? He's just being honest,

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Speaker 2: he's being straight, And they don't even see the themes

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Speaker 2: that they're interacting on. And some of those people have

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Speaker 2: various on various spectrums or don't have the capacity, and

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Speaker 2: they really struggle in life because they don't know how

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Speaker 2: to calibrate for social dynamics. Yes, one hundred percent. I

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Speaker 2: did a.

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Speaker 1: Mentor and group that I just started last night, a

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Speaker 1: ten week mentorship and it's it's like a private group.

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Speaker 2: It's just fifteen people and we're talking about this a

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Speaker 2: little bit.

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Speaker 1: And I said, you know, so think about talking about that,

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Speaker 1: trying to understand how we are for others. And I said, so,

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Speaker 1: here's my situation right now. There's fifteen of you, and

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Speaker 1: everyone just met last night, so no one knows everybody.

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Speaker 1: So there's fifteen strangers from different We've got people in

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Speaker 1: all over Australia, people in America, people in New Zealand

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Speaker 1: on the call. So we've got different backgrounds obviously, fifteen

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Speaker 1: different personalities, fifteen different expectations and reasons for being there.

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Speaker 1: And I said, and in the middle of all this,

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Speaker 1: I've got to try to resonate optimally with fifteen different people,

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Speaker 1: you know, So that whole interpersonal process of having an

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Speaker 1: awareness of how do I need to be for this

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Speaker 1: person or these people, Not so that I'm compromising me,

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Speaker 1: but just so that I have an awareness like that

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Speaker 1: group awareness and interpersonal awareness of how to build connection,

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Speaker 1: how to you know you and I could go down

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Speaker 1: a psychological rabbit hole of academic jargon and bullshit and

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Speaker 1: everyone's going to turn off, right, you know, because probably

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Speaker 1: ten percent of my listeners are academics and the rest

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Speaker 1: are not. And that's not good or bad. That's just

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Speaker 1: the group. But it's trying to have these conversations which

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Speaker 1: you must be thinking about, especially when you're working with

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Speaker 1: corporates and teams. How do I how do I share

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Speaker 1: my knowledge in a way that resonatees with them?

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Speaker 2: Rot. Yeah, I mean that's the whole skill set is

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Speaker 2: being able to communicate. Effective communication is relaying what you

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Speaker 2: want to relay, but making sure it's in a way

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Speaker 2: where the person hears you. So if I wire working too,

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Speaker 2: Like I'll tell you back in the day when I

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Speaker 2: first started my career, I was much younger. I was

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Speaker 2: like twenty five, and I was working in finance in

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Speaker 2: New York and like working with these big financial companies,

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Speaker 2: and I would walk in the room and these people

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Speaker 2: would be like, how old are you? Like they would

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Speaker 2: challenge me immediately, and what they respected is me like

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Speaker 2: being able to hold my own So me saying, what

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Speaker 2: kind of fucking question is that, like, like old enough

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Speaker 2: to run this thing? Like they would be like, h

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Speaker 2: I respect this guy, like I can listen to him.

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Speaker 2: Now we're in other contexts, it's completely different. So like

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Speaker 2: there's just certain dynamics that require a more warm, more

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Speaker 2: controlled sort of approach, and that's what it is really

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Speaker 2: to be a dynamic communicator, to sort of put yourself

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Speaker 2: aside and adjust for what you need to have in

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Speaker 2: that group. And it's like kind of really interesting, right Like,

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Speaker 2: even in that coaching program. I've done a lot of

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Speaker 2: ease in my life, and it's like you get fifteen

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Speaker 2: people on a call, and then you get that one

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Speaker 2: person that just hey, Greg, so I have a question

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Speaker 2: and we'll talk for like six or something, not realize

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Speaker 2: they're monopolizing the other fifteen people's time, right like, And

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Speaker 2: it's just such an interesting dynamic. But you could just

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Speaker 2: be more effective with the more context and more information

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Speaker 2: you have. And I don't think people spend the time

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Speaker 2: or effort to get that context in information, which is

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Speaker 2: why they can sometimes struggle.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was writing about you, and I was reading

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Speaker 1: that you're an adjunct professor of psych at City University

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Speaker 1: in New York, of New York.

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Speaker 2: I was looking at even now, I'm how old is

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Speaker 2: this fuck out? He looks twelve. I'm almost forty.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, that is you got some good genetics, broad

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Speaker 1: because you look twenty five right.

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Speaker 2: Now, enjoy that that was the issue. So I started,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was teaching at like twenty two and

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Speaker 2: I literally walk into the room and people would laugh

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Speaker 2: and think that I'm just messing around, like I can't

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Speaker 2: possibly be the student. And I had to Like people

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Speaker 2: would ask me, like how old are you, and I'd

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Speaker 2: be like old enough to fail you like, sit down

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Speaker 2: and shut up, like it's time to learn, right like.

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Speaker 2: And my way of being assertive allowed me to counterbalance this.

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Speaker 2: And now this is also a lot of context coming

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Speaker 2: from I grew up in one of the assertive, straightforward

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Speaker 2: places in the world. New York City is where I

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Speaker 2: was born and raised, so I was trained like that's

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Speaker 2: how you handle yourself. I have like clients in China

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Speaker 2: that if I approached it in that way, it'd be

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Speaker 2: they'd ask me to leave, like please leave, you know.

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Speaker 2: So there's a way of metering. And that's why I

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Speaker 2: think like the best communicators and the best social interactors

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Speaker 2: they have range r They have like a range that

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Speaker 2: they can play for whatever the dynamic and whatever the

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Speaker 2: group is, and show up how they need to show up.

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Speaker 1: I know there's no simple to this, but I'd just

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Speaker 1: like to open the door on the conversation.

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Speaker 2: So my question to.

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Speaker 1: You is, so people that are listening to this and

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Speaker 1: want to know how they can kind of understand themselves

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Speaker 1: more like, is there a process? Is there is the

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Speaker 1: other questions that we can ask about, how do I

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Speaker 1: understand me for me for my own benefit, but also

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Speaker 1: how do I understand me for others?

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Speaker 2: Any thoughts on that. Yeah, it's such a good question,

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Speaker 2: a lot of things. So first, video is probably one

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Speaker 2: of the most impactful coaching slash self development tools possible

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Speaker 2: because in a world of so many altering perceptions, videos

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Speaker 2: just reality. It's just bits that are recorded and it's

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Speaker 2: what you look like in a given time. So like

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Speaker 2: if you're a manager, or you're a leader, you're a parent,

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Speaker 2: like you know, people think that they're may be like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I'm an exceptional parent. Well let's put you on video.

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Speaker 2: Let's see what the average interaction looks like with your kids,

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Speaker 2: like are you really present? Like are you supporting them?

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Speaker 2: Are you short? Are you? And video does not lie.

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Speaker 2: So it's extremely confronting, but it's it's just so so

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Speaker 2: so powerful. And then the other really good way is

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Speaker 2: we do these like three sixty assessments. And there's two

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Speaker 2: questions in my three sixty that is my favorite, which

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Speaker 2: is you send this like inventory out to like, you know,

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Speaker 2: twenty people that know you and or ten or whatever

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Speaker 2: it is in your personal life and your professional life,

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Speaker 2: and it's what are three words to describe this person

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Speaker 2: at their best? And what are three words to describe

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Speaker 2: this person at their worst? Wow? And what's so sort

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Speaker 2: of fascinating is how much for most people it's consistent.

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Speaker 2: So like I looked at one this morning and it

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Speaker 2: was like, out of twenty four people, out of twenty

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Speaker 2: four people, the first word they used was impatient. So

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Speaker 2: this person was just like everybody was like at their worst,

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Speaker 2: you are just so impatient. And then you can take

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Speaker 2: a deeper discourse to being like, all right, is this

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Speaker 2: some sort of behavior that you're doing or are you

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Speaker 2: just looking inpatient? Were like, what are the things in

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Speaker 2: your life that lead to being impatient? Right? So it's

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Speaker 2: that kind of thing where you can hedge a lot

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Speaker 2: of these things. And then it's also really interesting when

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Speaker 2: like somebody gets twenty assessments and eighteen are just pretty

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Speaker 2: loving and great, and then two are like I can't

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Speaker 2: stand like they can't stand you, And I'm like, all right,

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Speaker 2: what happened there? Like what happened between you and Tom

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Speaker 2: and you and Jessica? And they're like, oh, they used

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Speaker 2: to work for me ten years ago when I was

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Speaker 2: a different person, and blah blah blah blah blah. So

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Speaker 2: I think video and asking others and asking others for

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Speaker 2: their perception, not for their feedback. So when it comes

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Speaker 2: to like social skills and interactions, people are horrible at

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Speaker 2: asking for and giving feedback because what feedback is to say,

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Speaker 2: they tell you how you should be, well, I think

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Speaker 2: you should be a little bit more this or that.

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Speaker 2: It's like you're not looking for feedback, you're just looking

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Speaker 2: for like listen when I'm around you, Like what kind

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Speaker 2: of emotion? What kind of thoughts leave in our interactions?

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Speaker 2: Like the more you can get to see just what

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Speaker 2: their worldview is and where there's similarities, the more then

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Speaker 2: you can start to go back and start looking for

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Speaker 2: how to change them.

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Speaker 1: That's such such good advice, and it's so it is

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Speaker 1: it's like people want people want feedback connival. You know,

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Speaker 1: until you give them FAA, until you give them feedback,

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Speaker 1: that lot on one faith. So what they actually want

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Speaker 1: is fucking acolytes and price and endorse.

433
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 2: You know, No, it's I really do think like I

434
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 2: have I mean I analyze teams and corporations. I have

435
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 2: all their zoom meetings and I'll watch I have like

436
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,199
Speaker 2: one company that I think I analyze like four hundred

437
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 2: and eighty one to one interaction, so like one to

438
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,640
Speaker 2: one manager and the person that reports to them fifteen

439
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 2: minute like here's what you're doing, here's what you're not doing.

440
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 2: Sessions and a lot of insights came from this for

441
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 2: this specific company. But like the biggest thing was feedback.

442
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 2: Is deliver feedback so that the person can hear you

443
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 2: and internalize the feedback. Is one of the most subtle

444
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 2: and dynamic skill sets in human behavior that can't be

445
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 2: like acknowledge them, do this, do that, and they'll like

446
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,400
Speaker 2: it because like sometimes just timing, Like there have been

447
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 2: moments where like my wife says something to me and

448
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 2: it's just like the wrong time to say that, right,

449
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 2: and then she says it two days later. I'm like, oh, yeah,

450
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,680
Speaker 2: totally right. Like it's just such this fickle, constantly moving thing,

451
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 2: and I think it's it's a really high level skill

452
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 2: set that's made to be like something basic like some

453
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 2: people don't like to be ripped apart or I'll tell

454
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,360
Speaker 2: you this, like in kind of like certain tech cultures,

455
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 2: there's just so there's such an inauthentic or not aligned

456
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 2: way that they get feedback. So they'll say things like

457
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 2: they'll be like, uh, they start off nice, and they'll

458
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 2: just say like really quickly, like Craig, so how are

459
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 2: you out by the way, I love your shirt, I

460
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 2: love the I love the background. So anyways, I want

461
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 2: to talk about your quarter and one performance one year,

462
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 2: and then they just go like right into here's everything

463
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 2: wrong with you, and the person just like what do

464
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 2: I do with this? Right? Yes, And it's such a

465
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 2: special skill set to be able to give someone feedback.

466
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,959
Speaker 2: They truly hear you, they feel heard, they feel like

467
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,719
Speaker 2: you care, and then they're actually motivated to want to

468
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 2: change right and want to do something different. And I

469
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 2: don't think there's enough of that out in our society,

470
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 2: which is why feedback is one of the most like

471
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 2: messed up corporate processes that you can possibly look at.

472
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so fucking clever, But also I think too,

473
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: like even if you had ten people blake and you

474
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: needed to give them essentially very similar feedback. You might

475
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 1: need to do that ten different ways because you've got

476
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: ten different personalities and expectations. And you know, it's like,

477
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 1: I could say something to Tiff, so Tiff works with

478
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 1: me and Melissa works with me. Very different people, not

479
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 1: better or worse, just really different. The thing that I

480
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: could say to Tiff that might work really well might

481
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: not work with Melissa, right, And so it's thinking, how

482
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: do I share this identical or pretty identical message with

483
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 1: these two very different people.

484
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then the challenge of it is it's so

485
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 2: hard to do at scale. So when you're a manager

486
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 2: and you're managing a team of fifteen people and you

487
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 2: got all this own shit going on for you, and

488
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 2: you're like, ah, so most of it's designing for like what,

489
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 2: how do we design a system that's going to work

490
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 2: for eighty percent of people even though the twenty percent

491
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 2: are going to be problematic even for the people that

492
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 2: don't have those skill sets are adaptive, and some people

493
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 2: who have these skill sets and are better able to

494
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 2: do this, it just it comes across natural. They don't

495
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 2: even they don't even know what they're doing. Like if

496
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 2: you ask them like, like, hey, so, can you break

497
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 2: down a series of steps or process on how you

498
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 2: get it? They're like, I don't know. They're just like

499
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 2: one of those people that like they can't even articulate it,

500
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 2: but they're just processing so much information at such a

501
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 2: rapid rate, which makes them so unique and so special

502
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 2: in the same way. In the same way, like when

503
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 2: you're learning using boxing as analogy, right, like you're learning

504
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 2: to box and at first, like you're just trying to

505
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 2: throw a punch. Like my thing was always like tension

506
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 2: in my shoulders. So like every coach I've had in

507
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 2: boxing is always like hitting my shoulders because I keep

508
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: my shoulders tentch when I move right. And it took

509
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 2: no matter how many times I put that through my head,

510
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 2: like relax my shoulder, it takes a long time to

511
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 2: actually get your shoulders relaxed and be able to connect

512
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 2: and be able to move. It's just it's a it's

513
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 2: a process. And yeah, it's that's what I'm just so

514
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: fascinated by and loved teaching because once people see that

515
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 2: it's like that, it opens their eyes to people. Do

516
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 2: you think that.

517
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: Generally that people think much about how they think like that,

518
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: why do I think the way that I think? And

519
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: essentially does it work? Like is this optimal suboptimal? You know,

520
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: because I feel like people don't really lean into that much.

521
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 2: I think what starts? So for me, it's it's like

522
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 2: a by a sample because most of the people that

523
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 2: come my direction have this like growth personal development, probably

524
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: most people in this podcast, right, So like if we

525
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 2: were to like pull everybody in this podcast, I would

526
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 2: make an assumption that most of them are like thinking

527
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 2: about their approach that life and all that stuff. But

528
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 2: the average if we looked at the average, yeah, I

529
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 2: don't think I don't think so. And that's what it

530
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 2: is to live an empowering, exceptional life. It's like working

531
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 2: on yourself and doing the work and confronting what you

532
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 2: don't want to confront and having coaches and everybody in

533
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 2: your life to keep you more aligned.

534
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: And I think, like one of my favorite things to

535
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: think about is, you know, like that, where is my

536
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: programming and my conditioning finish?

537
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 2: And where do I start?

538
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: Like if I if I hadn't been programmed the way

539
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: that I have with my school and my parents and

540
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: my culture and my environment living in this city and

541
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: blah blah blah and da da da and da da.

542
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: Here I am and now I look through the Kraig

543
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: window at the wiled You know, imagine if I'd grown up

544
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 1: looking through a different window, or with different faith or

545
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: beliefs or culture or you know, like identity or experiences.

546
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:15,199
Speaker 1: That that just that fascination between figuring out who I

547
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 1: could be or might be beyond what I've been taught

548
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: and told and trained to be.

549
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 2: Oh, it's it's one of my if I could have

550
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 2: a machine that can go back and like switch moment,

551
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 2: Like how cool it would it be if like we

552
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 2: go right, Craig twelve years old, let's modify this this

553
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 2: this enter and like let's see how that compounds. Because

554
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 2: all these perspectives they do compound over time, right, and

555
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: and they start to sort of change how you view

556
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 2: the world and see the world. Yeah, no, it's and

557
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 2: it's quite fascinating, that's what you know. The interesting thing

558
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 2: is I like to read the reviews on the things

559
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 2: that I love, the hated reviews on the things that

560
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 2: I love. Right, So, like you know, like I love

561
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 2: The Dark Knight Rises this movie, right, it's like quote

562
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 2: it more than anything else and I'll go and look

563
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 2: at the one and two star reviews and I'm just like,

564
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:15,719
Speaker 2: how the hell could this person have that opinion about this? Right, Like,

565
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 2: and it's just everybody sees the world differently, and you

566
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 2: have to really. I think it's one of those things

567
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 2: that's said so often that people conceptually understand that, but

568
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 2: they don't get it at their core. They don't really

569
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 2: like get it and integrate it into like how they

570
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: talk to people and how they interact with people. There's, oh, yeah, sure,

571
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 2: everybody has their own perspective. Yeah, that's nice, but it's like, no, no, no, no,

572
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 2: no no. This is at the bedrock of all human

573
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 2: perception and in order to really interact with people, navigate, manipulate,

574
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 2: whatever word you have to, just you have to you

575
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 2: have to really get that in your bones. Yeah.

576
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: So we're looking at the same thing, but we're not

577
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: saying the same thing.

578
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean even at the like where it gets

579
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: even creepier is like we can think about social interactions,

580
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,719
Speaker 2: but we can drapulate. So I'll give you an example. So, like,

581
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 2: I'm closely related to design. I have a lot of

582
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 2: design input in everything in my company, and I was

583
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 2: getting into a little bit of a heated dispute with

584
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 2: one of my designers about the weight of a font.

585
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 2: It was like the Rogan we use this font called Rogan.

586
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 2: He was putting in at bold four hundred. I thought

587
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 2: it should be bold. I thought it should have been

588
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 2: a two hundred weight, and he's like, it looks to it.

589
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 2: What are you talking about. I was like, it looks great.

590
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 2: Long story short, I find out that I have a

591
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,479
Speaker 2: stigmatism in my right eye which skews the things. So

592
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 2: I finally get glasses for the first time in my life.

593
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 2: I put these glasses on, and I'm like, I am

594
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 2: so sorry. The stigmatism was making the text not as

595
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 2: bold as so you were one hundred percent right this

596
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: whole time. I totally get while you think I was crazy.

597
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 2: So this happens at the level of vision, at the

598
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 2: level of color, like with people with certain cognitive processing disorders,

599
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 2: with people with you know, on certain spectrums of overthinking

600
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 2: or underthinking. Like, it's not just social interactions at like

601
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 2: every aspect. I mean, people have junior mutations that change

602
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 2: the amount of blues and greens in their visual spectrum

603
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 2: to the point of when they were looking at your

604
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 2: room right now. They'd be like, why is your room

605
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 2: like a light brown? They can't see blue right, like

606
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 2: it's happening everywhere.

607
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so interesting. Hey, yeah, we don't see things

608
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: as they are. We see things as we are, that

609
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: old chestnut. I'm fascinated. I just want to jump back

610
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,479
Speaker 1: a little bit. So you said that you looked at

611
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: hundreds of one on one interviews that went for like

612
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes or something. Do obviously the people that you're

613
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: that are in the one on one getting their review

614
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: or their feedback or whatever, they know they're being filmed, obviously, yes.

615
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, okay, so wow, So the companies everything's recorded.

616
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 2: It's like a byproduct of some of these companies. Protocols

617
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 2: are processes. Not all of them know that they're looking like, yeah,

618
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 2: I'm looking at this through a lens of like development

619
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 2: and helping them. So even though they know, they totally

620
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: forget because some of them they're they're not on these

621
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 2: zoom meetings. I'm like, you can't say that, like you

622
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 2: get Nope, you can't say that they forget. And just

623
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: we're in a zoom culture right now where everybody's on

624
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 2: meetings being recorded, being interviewed, being all those types of things.

625
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 2: So it's just it's one of those things that like

626
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 2: I think people just forget how often they're actually recorded. Yeah, yeah,

627
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 2: but there are times where people directly no, I will

628
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 2: tell you one thing. So we've done a lot of

629
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 2: video research and we found that for the most part,

630
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 2: the number seems to be between like ten to fifteen minutes.

631
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 2: I think it's more like eight to twelve, but let's

632
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 2: just say ten to fifteen minutes. So if people know

633
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 2: they're being recorded, like we did a dating study in

634
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 2: New York City like fifteen years ago, or we put

635
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 2: people in like blind dates and recorded them from multiple angles,

636
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 2: people can be a little bit weird for the first

637
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 2: like ten minutes, and then they just forget that they're

638
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 2: being recorded, right, And we're really good at like camera

639
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 2: policement and doing things so that you don't feel like

640
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 2: it's invasive. But yeah, oh yeah, video is so heavy

641
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 2: in our society now. It's just so easy to get

642
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 2: footage on people.

643
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: Tell me about the intersection of Like when I think

644
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,959
Speaker 1: about the people that you work with in corporate I

645
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: do a lot of corporate speaking, and I'm always interested

646
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: in the people you know, the bosses, the managers, the leaders,

647
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: whoever they are, this kind of intersection of business skills

648
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: and intellect, but also emotional and social intelligence, situational awareness,

649
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: fucking empathy.

650
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 2: You know.

651
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about is there is there

652
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:53,239
Speaker 1: a better recipe or formula, like what who makes the

653
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: best leaders and communicators and connectors and problem solvers?

654
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, such a great question. So I think it boiled.

655
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 2: So this is okay. Let me let me take a

656
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 2: couple steps back. So when I start working with these

657
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 2: large organizations, you know, years ago, and continue to work

658
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 2: with them, there's there's all these things that start coming

659
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 2: up that I don't understand. Right. So, for example, I'm

660
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 2: working with a series of six teams, and I'm told

661
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 2: that I need to go work with this specific team

662
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 2: because the manager or the leader of that group is

663
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,919
Speaker 2: like toxic and too aggressive and all this stuff. Right,

664
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 2: But then I look at all the actual data, and

665
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 2: this person's outperforming everybody else. So their team is the

666
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 2: most you know, high performing team. So I'm like, why

667
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 2: am I working If the goal of the business is

668
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 2: to make money and the goal of the businesses to grow,

669
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 2: why are you sending me in to work with and

670
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 2: like they're like, well, we just were worried about employee burnout.

671
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: We're worried about all these other aspects. And what I

672
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 2: started to find is that the best leaders, you know,

673
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 2: there's all these freaking books, be this kind of leader,

674
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 2: that kind of leader. Like there's really just I don't

675
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 2: believe there's such a thing. There are some you know, rules,

676
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 2: but if the one thing that I could say is

677
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 2: the most important that I've observed is alignment. So the

678
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 2: best leaders are aligned. So even if a leader like

679
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 2: I work with this guy that was just a piece

680
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: of work, it was tough, is just like just the

681
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 2: definition of tough. And I do this like leadership assessment

682
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 2: thing where I'm like, you know, close your eyes, I

683
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 2: matching your funeral. Everybody ever worked with is telling stories

684
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 2: about you. What are they saying? And he and this

685
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 2: guy usually people were like he was great. This guy

686
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 2: was like I want them to say, like he was

687
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 2: the toughest boss I ever worked with. But that guy

688
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 2: changed my life. So he really did care about his people.

689
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 2: But he thought that the way to grow people was

690
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 2: to be like a drill sergeant, miserable kind of person.

691
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 2: And he didn't want to change that. So what I

692
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 2: did was I built like a workflow with him for

693
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,399
Speaker 2: when people started working with him. He would say, listen,

694
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 2: here's the deal. I have been told by numerous people

695
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 2: over the last ten years that I am the toughest

696
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 2: person they've ever worked with, that I'm hard, that I'm demanding,

697
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 2: that I accept excellence at every single level and a

698
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 2: high level of integrity and all this stuff. You probably

699
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 2: won't like me, but I promise you over the next

700
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 2: if you work with me for two years, I'll fundamentally

701
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 2: change the trajectory of your entire life and career. Are

702
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:16,760
Speaker 2: you in? And the people that would hesitate or whatever,

703
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 2: and some people would just be like yes, and that

704
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 2: changed everything because they saw his behavior as happening for them,

705
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 2: not to them, which just really shifted the narrative. So

706
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 2: I believe that any leader can be effective as long

707
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 2: as you own the context and explain people what they're

708
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 2: getting into. The bullshit comes from the leaders that try

709
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 2: to act nice and try to act warm, and they're

710
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 2: the exact opposite, like, oh, I want you to have

711
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 2: life work balance and you should spend time with your family,

712
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,720
Speaker 2: and then they call you on a Saturday at eleven

713
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 2: and they're like, where is this, Like it's the inconsistency

714
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 2: that creates the problem. But I had a conversation with

715
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 2: someone that wants to do something for me. They want

716
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,439
Speaker 2: to lead some pretty big thing and they have three

717
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: kids and they right now they're working with me in

718
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: cushy capacity. And I said it, I said, listen, right now,

719
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 2: you know you're working thirty hours a week on an

720
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 2: hourly basis with me. You've got friendly, you've got easy blake,

721
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,399
Speaker 2: you got nothing like that. If you take on this

722
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 2: role and something happens at Sunday at four o'clock in

723
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 2: the morning, it's not me fixing it, it's you. And

724
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 2: do you really want to do that right now with

725
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 2: three kids in a family. And he was like, no,

726
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 2: it's all right, great, this is the wrong role for

727
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 2: you then, right, So it's just setting expectations. And also,

728
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 2: like the truth is, there is some classic stuff too,

729
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 2: like a lot of leaders is so interesting when like

730
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 2: a leader will tell their team to do something that

731
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 2: they won't like, that stuff just looks so bad, Like

732
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 2: it's just so bad when they're just like, oh, you know,

733
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 2: I expect everybody to be on time, but then they

734
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 2: show up five minutes late for meetings, It's like, why

735
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 2: can you be late and everybody else can? So leading

736
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 2: by example, So like alignment and leading by example, I

737
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 2: think it cuts through more noise than any other type

738
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 2: of thing. And then another point about your point about empathy,

739
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 2: which is such a hot topic today and our environment.

740
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 2: Everybody wants empathy, and the truth is people don't want empathy,

741
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 2: they want perceived empathy. A big difference. So, like the

742
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 2: perception of empathy is me going like, like what you

743
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 2: just did, right, You were like hmmm, that allows me like, okay,

744
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 2: that was interesting. You could have been like this guy's

745
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 2: an idiot, Like that's what could have been going through

746
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 2: your head. But the way people receive it is like, oh,

747
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,919
Speaker 2: he's really listening to me, right, And a lot there's

748
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 2: a lot of leaders out there that are very empathetic.

749
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 2: They just don't show it. So they care about their team,

750
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 2: they just don't have facial configurations that align with it.

751
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 2: Their words don't align with it. You know. It's that

752
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:40,240
Speaker 2: kind of dynamic.

753
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: Oh that's such a good conversation. You know. Another thing

754
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: I find really interesting is kind of the balance between

755
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: like caring for people, understanding their feelings, and you know

756
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,439
Speaker 1: their drivers and where they're at. You know a lot

757
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,959
Speaker 1: of people, and even Tiff on the call with us.

758
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: I coach Tiff in the gym, and I often coach

759
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: her with someone else, and she'll attest to this. Like

760
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: I've said to her lots of times, I'm not interested

761
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: in making you feel good in the moment. I'm interested

762
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: in helping you be fucking awesome over the long term.

763
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: And it's not my job to stroke your ego make

764
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: sure you feel okay. Like that's not my job. It

765
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 1: doesn't mean I don't care. I actually really care, because

766
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: I want you to be a fucking weapon, right. But

767
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: there's that sometimes in the moment where people want their ego,

768
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 1: not Tiff, but people want.

769
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:41,479
Speaker 2: Their ego fared or you know, like it's that real.

770
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 1: I find that a challenge at times, that balance between

771
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 1: you know, helping people feel okay in the moment, but also.

772
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 2: You know, you know, you've been.

773
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: Going around in circles with this for five fucking years.

774
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 1: You're still not doing it. You're still you're not doing

775
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: the things required to build resilient and to build capacity,

776
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: and you're not doing the work, and you give up everything,

777
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: you know, like there's this there's this kind of you know,

778
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: two dimensional challenge of how do I not scare the

779
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,760
Speaker 1: fuck out of them, which I can do with people,

780
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,359
Speaker 1: but also empower them to do their best.

781
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it's it's what it is to take

782
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 2: a stand for someone and be able to say the

783
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 2: things that other people are unwilling to say and using

784
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 2: whatever motivational paradigms that are going to be required, Like

785
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 2: there's like for me, like and but that where it

786
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 2: gets so different is like the domain of sports is

787
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 2: so unique, especially boxing, right, Like you know what you

788
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 2: just said. But imagine like a corporate thing where you

789
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 2: have to do the same thing and they're like, well,

790
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 2: the company's culture is that we're more we care about

791
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 2: our employees and we care like It's just so it's

792
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 2: so different, which is why I I think that like

793
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 2: sports is such a good analogy to performance in the

794
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 2: sense that like some people are motivated by you know,

795
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 2: dig deep and go harder, right, Like some people are

796
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 2: like that's their true motivational power, Nige. But if you

797
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 2: I see too much, somebody can break, right. So it's

798
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 2: just this I think the answer to it is awareness,

799
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: Like the more aware you are of the other person,

800
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 2: the more you're able to see how your words are landing,

801
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 2: how your state, when you need to dial in more,

802
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 2: when you need to back in a little bit more,

803
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 2: and do all that I had I had. I have

804
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 2: this coach that would like, oh my god, I remember this,

805
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 2: Like he would we would do to squats. He would

806
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 2: do this thing where he'd go like, all, I'm gonna

807
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,879
Speaker 2: count you down, let's just finish at ten, and he'd

808
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 2: go one, two, three, four, five, six, And then he

809
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 2: would go he'd watch my movement and he'd go six, six, six, six,

810
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 2: And there'd be times where it was supposed to end

811
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 2: in ten squats and I'm at like sixty six and

812
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 2: he'd but he'd be watching me and he's like you

813
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 2: got another, Like yeah, another, I'd just keep going six six,

814
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,439
Speaker 2: he goes seven, and he would And what was so

815
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 2: interesting is like he'd be able to take me to

816
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 2: that like last two percent drop in me where I'm like,

817
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 2: I don't think I could do two more squad and

818
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 2: just push me to the push me to the thing.

819
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 2: And then the next day he'd be able to ease

820
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 2: off a little bit, like he was calibrating for me

821
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 2: in a way that worked, and I think communication, leadership

822
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 2: and stuff is very similar. Yeah, that's very valid. All right,

823
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,800
Speaker 2: I'm gonna we're on the home straight. I'm going to

824
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 2: just throw a few.

825
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 1: A few words that you maybe and rather than asking

826
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: you a specific question about it, I want.

827
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 2: You to riff if you would, for a minute.

828
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: So my first word is on My first concept is lying.

829
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 2: Lying. Talk to us about lying. So lying is probably

830
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 2: if all the domains, if you look at all the

831
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 2: domains of human behavior, lying is probably the most difficult

832
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 2: to navigate, in my opinion. So a lot of the

833
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 2: information and advice from lying often comes from people that

834
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 2: have studied deception when they have ground truth. So when

835
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 2: an interrogator interrogates somebody sitting there and they know that

836
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,760
Speaker 2: they weren't at this place at this hour, the truth

837
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 2: is from like an adaptive approach. Having a lens where

838
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 2: you going around the world looking to see if people

839
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 2: are lying or not is probably not going to serve you.

840
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 2: Like it's a very complicated skill set. Most of the

841
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 2: stuff you hear about body language and lying is complete

842
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 2: utter nonsense, like if someone scratches their nose or if

843
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 2: they don't look at you or just silly shit and

844
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 2: if you really want to get good at sort of deception,

845
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 2: like it's a process of like interrogation and who wants

846
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 2: to go through their social life like interrogating people and

847
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 2: checking and like one of the easiest ways to see

848
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 2: if someone's lying is just like this is where it gets nuanced, right.

849
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 2: You can just make something up. You could be like,

850
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 2: have you found have you found the Seymour and Undertow

851
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 2: study twenty fifteen, And someone's like, oh, yeah, no, I

852
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 2: read that and I just made that up based on

853
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 2: the poster right there. Now, the question is why did

854
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 2: they lie? Did they lie because they want to feel appreciated,

855
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 2: they want to feel respected? Do they have like most

856
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 2: people just make shit up, not because they're being evil,

857
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 2: but because it's just this sort of social adaptability. Yeah,

858
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 2: I love it all right.

859
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: Next one, identity.

860
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 2: Oh that's a good one. I mean, I feel like

861
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 2: that is probably the foundation of so many things when

862
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 2: it comes to social interactions. You need to have a

863
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 2: strong sense of identity and who you are before you

864
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 2: ever enter into an intimate relationship. It's like old school

865
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 2: Eric Ericksson's theories of development or Colborg after who did it.

866
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 2: I think that most people are in this sort of

867
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 2: stage of like identity, of confusion, of like just trying

868
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,399
Speaker 2: to figure out who they are and not really knowing

869
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 2: who they are. And sometimes I think that's just like

870
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 2: a lifelong journey. I think that identity is something that

871
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 2: in a such a beautiful way evolves, and such a

872
00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 2: beautiful way, like your results and your actions are are

873
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 2: what should form your identity, not the thoughts about yourself. Yes,

874
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 2: so like you build your identity through reality, not through

875
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 2: Oh I think I would be. It's kind of like

876
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 2: I always say this, like I I was with a

877
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 2: friend at a Knicks game and he kept yelling at

878
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 2: everybody at the court and it was just yelling, yelling, yelling.

879
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 2: I was like, dude, can you just shut the fuck?

880
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 2: Can you stop talking right now? Like please? And he's

881
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:23,839
Speaker 2: like why. I was like, because you're not an NBA

882
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 2: basketball player, like you if you're in if you were

883
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 2: a former NBA about yell at these people. But so

884
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 2: many people form their identity through their own thoughts and

885
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 2: not through their actions. So don't trust your thoughts, trust

886
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 2: your actions, all right. Trust Trust Trust is people always

887
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,439
Speaker 2: talk about like nonverbal things or body language things around trust.

888
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 2: Trust is simply feedback loops. That's how they're created. You

889
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 2: do something somebody, you do something you say you're gonna do,

890
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 2: you do it. You get trust. And you can accelerate

891
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 2: the trust dynamics and the feedback loops by showing up

892
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 2: and being more consistent. So if you meet somebody at

893
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 2: three pm, you get there at three pm. Yeah, you know,

894
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 2: you say you're going to do something this week, You

895
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 2: get it done this week. That's it. And I think

896
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 2: that the whole notion of like certain people are trustworthy

897
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 2: or not trustworthy based on physical behavior, it's a lot

898
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 2: of it is very it's the perception of trust. The

899
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 2: truth is you can only measure trust the results. It's

900
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 2: like the only.

901
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: Way great, all right, the idea of success versus the

902
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: reality of success.

903
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 2: So yeah, success, I think success. My definition success is

904
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 2: like you write things down on a piece of paper

905
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 2: what you want to accomplish, and you accomplish it and

906
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 2: you're successful. And I think the biggest problem people make

907
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 2: is they take these pervasive themes of society and they

908
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 2: try to follow other people's definition of what success is

909
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 2: and they play the wrong game. So I think success

910
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 2: is just a game, and I think it. You know,

911
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 2: you start off short, you start off small, you win

912
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 2: the smaller games, you win the bigger games. And I

913
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 2: think what most people do is yeah, I work with

914
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:11,479
Speaker 2: some people that are so hard on themselves that they've

915
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 2: never even measured or come up with what success looks like.

916
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 2: They don't even know they just pushed themselves so hard.

917
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 2: Like what is successful? Is it winning? Is it making

918
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 2: fifty million dollars? Is it finding the love of your life?

919
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 1: Like?

920
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 2: What is success? And most people, if you ask people

921
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 2: that want to be successful, most people can't answer the

922
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 2: question of what its success is. Yeah, that is true.

923
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 2: I know I've done that many times.

924
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: I go put up your end if you want to

925
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: be successful. Every hand goes up, and then I go,

926
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: all right, just write down what that means for you,

927
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:41,320
Speaker 1: and they just sit there looking.

928
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 2: At idea like huh, yeah that is changed. All right,

929
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,319
Speaker 2: We're nearly there. This is great. Thank you so much.

930
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 1: All Right, my last single word that I'm going to

931
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 1: chuck at you before you tell us a bit about

932
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: your work and your business and how people can connect.

933
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry that this is cliche, but I just

934
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: want to hear your thoughts on it.

935
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 2: Happiness. So I think happiness is it's become such a

936
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 2: thing in our society that we have to live a

937
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 2: happy life quote unquote happy life. Yeah. I am not

938
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 2: optimizing my life necessarily around happiness, like the sort of

939
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 2: ups and downs and the things that I've gone through

940
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 2: and all this stuff. And for me, happiness comes from

941
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 2: when I push hard towards something and achieve it and

942
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,879
Speaker 2: it's like this fleeting moment where I'm like happy for

943
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 2: like five or six seconds. So I'll tell you I'll

944
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 2: end this on like a sad note. But my dad

945
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 2: passed in November of ALS. So he had ALS for

946
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 2: two years. Died a horrible disease that just you know,

947
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 2: you can't move. And when he first got the diagnosis,

948
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,240
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, I was like talking to

949
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 2: God or the simulation or whatever, and I was like, listen,

950
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 2: I'm gonna work harder than I've ever worked in my

951
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 2: entire life, Like I am going to grind and because

952
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 2: that's all I knew, like I didn't know. And then

953
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 2: two weeks later I was like, no, I'm just going

954
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 2: to try to enjoy and be present in every moment

955
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 2: and be grateful that I'm alive, and I'm going to

956
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 2: do more than that than anything else. And that has

957
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 2: been such a gift that my dad gave to me

958
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,760
Speaker 2: when he died, because it had me see how short

959
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 2: life is. And that doesn't mean looking for happiness in

960
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 2: anywhere everywhere. That sometimes just means experiencing the range of

961
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 2: human emotions and the range of human experience, from fear

962
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 2: to joy to anxiety, all these different things, but to

963
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 2: be more present with it. So I don't I think

964
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 2: if you try to optimize for just being universally happy

965
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 2: and don't have a really good definition of what happiness

966
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,240
Speaker 2: is to you, you're going to fail. Like this is

967
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 2: going to be very hard.

968
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Blake, I love chatting with you. You're super fascinating.

969
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: I mean, thank you so much for doing this. So

970
00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: I appreciate you. How can people connect with you? You

971
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: point them towards my audience to whatever you want to

972
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:09,720
Speaker 1: point them towards. Websites, social media, books, programs, whatever, whatever

973
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: you want to steer people towards.

974
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the best way I send an email newsletter

975
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 2: out every Monday for doing it for the last four years.

976
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 2: So it's nonverbalgroup dot com slash newsletter, and we have

977
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 2: a ton of programs. We've got a program called the

978
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 2: Social Edge where we teach these skills and we analyze

979
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 2: your behavior with a bunch of models. It's pretty wild.

980
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:28,879
Speaker 2: And I'm going to do start doing a lot more

981
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 2: stuff on YouTube, So YouTube dot Com, slash Blake, Underscore

982
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 2: Eastman and Instagram and all those various things. I got

983
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 2: to start getting out there more book coming in a year,

984
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 2: So still working on that one.

985
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 1: Well, we will get you back before the book, and

986
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: we will we will crank that book out for you.

987
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 1: Well say goodbye off fair but Blake, thanks so much

988
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:50,800
Speaker 1: for coming on the Youth Project.

989
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I just want to say I've done like

990
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 2: I've done, like twenty five podcast I think in the

991
00:50:56,680 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 2: last like three months is definitely leave my top three.

992
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 2: Like just your energy, your questions, your sort of informal

993
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:09,320
Speaker 2: like I just loved it. So you did an absolutely

994
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 2: amazing job and it was so refreshing. I didn't know

995
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,720
Speaker 2: what to expect and I was like, oh, this guy's different,

996
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 2: Like I like this already, and like because your energy change,

997
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 2: it kind of impacted me. I was like, God, I

998
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 2: could be more myself, I could be more conversational. It's

999
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 2: not like, so Blake, what are the top three things?

1000
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 2: So you're doing great? I love it. This was amazing.

1001
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: Thank you, self esteem restored. Thank you therapy today. Fuck

1002
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 1: that well, say goodbye fair Blake, but thank you for

1003
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: being part of you project.

1004
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 2: We really appreciate you. Thank you.