1
00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:03,720
Speaker 1: I get everyone. Shit, I'm excited to be here. It's

2
00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:06,880
Speaker 1: four minutes past three, It's Monday. The good doc Mark

3
00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,840
Speaker 1: Cross is here. Tiffany and Cook, who is the Coqueen

4
00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,200
Speaker 1: of typ is here, just battening down the hatches and steering,

5
00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,320
Speaker 1: trying to keep Mark and Iron line. Basically, how are you,

6
00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:19,320
Speaker 1: tiv It's.

7
00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:21,400
Speaker 2: A big job, Harps. It is a big job.

8
00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:22,880
Speaker 1: Is it raining where you are?

9
00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:23,680
Speaker 3: No?

10
00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,520
Speaker 2: But it looks pretty dark. It was raining earlier, happy summertime.

11
00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:32,240
Speaker 1: It's pelting down over here in the very tropical confines

12
00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,159
Speaker 1: of Bloody Hampton. But anyway, we do what we can.

13
00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,519
Speaker 1: It's Monday, first day of the week. We're sliding like

14
00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,559
Speaker 1: piss blokes in a bar towards Christmas. Thirteen days to go,

15
00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,479
Speaker 1: Oh my god, thirteen days. It's the twelfth. Well, as

16
00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,040
Speaker 1: we're recording this, it's the twelfth. Are you Are you

17
00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:53,519
Speaker 1: going home to step back in time, back to lawn Seston.

18
00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,240
Speaker 2: No, I guess no, it's not lawn Sestin for a start.

19
00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,960
Speaker 1: Good shout out tout my tazzy friends. I really love you.

20
00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,160
Speaker 1: I used to live there. Going it is a bit

21
00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:03,920
Speaker 1: of a time warped though, God bless.

22
00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:05,880
Speaker 2: This year and next year. This is my plan. I'm

23
00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:07,800
Speaker 2: going to go back in February each year. Have a

24
00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:09,840
Speaker 2: guess why. I don't know if I've told you, I told.

25
00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:14,880
Speaker 1: You, uh, February each year. I know I've got my thing.

26
00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,480
Speaker 2: My very elite grandfather turns ninety nine this February, so

27
00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,520
Speaker 2: I'm pushing Christmas out ninety nine.

28
00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:22,840
Speaker 1: Not many humans, not many men.

29
00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,240
Speaker 2: Do you know? Only seventeen percent of men, seventeen percent

30
00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,000
Speaker 2: of people that reach one hundred and men.

31
00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, that it was elite. Well, we burn ourselves out

32
00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:37,440
Speaker 1: because we're dickheads, and we're just we just we just

33
00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,720
Speaker 1: run a Mark I tell you who, I tell you

34
00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:41,360
Speaker 1: he's not a dickhead, and he's probably going to live

35
00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,160
Speaker 1: to one hundred and twenty, especially because he's sipping on

36
00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,559
Speaker 1: twenty seven dollars sparkling water. So fucking fancy, Mark Cross,

37
00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:49,560
Speaker 1: you paid too much.

38
00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,320
Speaker 3: I'm trying to work out when I'm supposed to not

39
00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,080
Speaker 3: to say here, I've got a plotty mouth. I think

40
00:01:58,080 --> 00:01:59,080
Speaker 3: you've just beaten me in.

41
00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,000
Speaker 1: No. Yeah, well let's see. I want you to step

42
00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,240
Speaker 1: up to the plate. But it is funny because I

43
00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,359
Speaker 1: do have, as you say, quite a good diagnosis, Doc,

44
00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,920
Speaker 1: I do have a potty mouth. And but what's funny

45
00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:17,240
Speaker 1: is there's something mystical that happens when people, when really

46
00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:23,240
Speaker 1: proper refined. Often academics come on the you project. About

47
00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,560
Speaker 1: halfway through they stumble through the swearing door themselves. So

48
00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,560
Speaker 1: people who would never in a million years say fuck

49
00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,760
Speaker 1: or shit or bum or bugger or bitch or whatever

50
00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:38,920
Speaker 1: on an interview of any kind, they start swearing, don't

51
00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:39,320
Speaker 1: they tiff?

52
00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, look what you've done to me?

53
00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,040
Speaker 1: Yeah? I know you used to be quite respectable anyway,

54
00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,600
Speaker 1: Doctor Mark Cross, let me read some of your bio.

55
00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,720
Speaker 1: Does doctoring differently? The first openly gay man twin Father

56
00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,760
Speaker 1: of the Year, Marcus also lived experience of one of

57
00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,600
Speaker 1: the conditions he treats. He's been anxious since he was

58
00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,960
Speaker 1: for I loved it when I read that. His empathy

59
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,080
Speaker 1: humor making one of Australia's most life psychiatrists. He's a

60
00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,960
Speaker 1: psych with clinical experience spanning three decades. He graduated as

61
00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,600
Speaker 1: a doctor in Cape Down Yeah bro Shame, specializing in

62
00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,520
Speaker 1: the UK, and has worked in as a specialist in

63
00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,320
Speaker 1: Sydney since two thousand and five. There's lots more, but

64
00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,560
Speaker 1: we'll hear about it from him, Doctor Mark officially, Welcome

65
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:22,760
Speaker 1: to the You project, sir.

66
00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,200
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. It's just funny that you just

67
00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,120
Speaker 3: said all that. I swear a lot, but I've just

68
00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,320
Speaker 3: mentioned before it has been back to South Africa after

69
00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,239
Speaker 3: three years, you know, COVID all that sort of stuff,

70
00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,880
Speaker 3: to see my parents. My father just burst into tears

71
00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,120
Speaker 3: when you huge me. Oh, it's lovely and you talk

72
00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,640
Speaker 3: about posh, you know, water whatever. I'm a boy from

73
00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,440
Speaker 3: the Burbs and it's like it's always it's always going good,

74
00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,600
Speaker 3: going back to your roots. Right. So I'm doing a

75
00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,440
Speaker 3: documentary with Allison you talk to her, my manager and

76
00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,440
Speaker 3: best friend. You documentary at my school next year. I'm

77
00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:59,200
Speaker 3: forty years out of high school. Wow, lovely school, and

78
00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,600
Speaker 3: it's we're going to look at we got to go

79
00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,600
Speaker 3: on from Mardi Gras and growing up gay in the

80
00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,520
Speaker 3: seventies and eighties. Obviously it wasn't that much fun. And

81
00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,440
Speaker 3: now at the school they got the first genine you,

82
00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,280
Speaker 3: toul toilets and trans students going to the metric ball

83
00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,520
Speaker 3: and it's pretty amazing. So we're going to do it

84
00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,320
Speaker 3: then and now. But of course I go to the school,

85
00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,640
Speaker 3: right and all of a sudden, I realized I'm a

86
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:27,320
Speaker 3: person of high net worth to myself. When you talking

87
00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,000
Speaker 3: about I go w TAF in my head. Every single

88
00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,920
Speaker 3: time they're looking at me, and we'll be doing very

89
00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,000
Speaker 3: serious conversations or whatever. I'm going. I rode my bicycle

90
00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:38,720
Speaker 3: from the birds to school every day.

91
00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,799
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel like I'm just an older

92
00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,039
Speaker 1: version of you? I know you think I'm special and

93
00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:46,640
Speaker 1: all that bullshit and clever, but I'm not. I'm just

94
00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,000
Speaker 1: you in a different time.

95
00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,279
Speaker 3: It's a weird thing looking at past cells and now,

96
00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,919
Speaker 3: because it's always part of you, right. My problem is

97
00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:02,839
Speaker 3: with the anxiety and the constant need to overcompensate for

98
00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,800
Speaker 3: all of that. It's a constant sort of thing in

99
00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:07,640
Speaker 3: my head. My head never stops, you know, and I'm going,

100
00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:09,760
Speaker 3: I really should be doing Benny here, I'm going to

101
00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,239
Speaker 3: do this perfectly perfection traits and all that sort of stuff,

102
00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:15,120
Speaker 3: and then you sit back and go, you know what,

103
00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:20,400
Speaker 3: there are some advantages to getting old, and this is

104
00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,400
Speaker 3: part of it. So now it's sort of like, hey,

105
00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,440
Speaker 3: I'm getting a little bit more chilled in my approach

106
00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,719
Speaker 3: to when I see people, and I don't have to

107
00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,840
Speaker 3: constantly think, oh, I'm going to prove something to them

108
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,200
Speaker 3: that there is that, especially when you go back to

109
00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,479
Speaker 3: your past. Yeah, have to prove something even though you

110
00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:37,040
Speaker 3: left it.

111
00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:41,760
Speaker 1: And it's funny. In some places, Doc, I feel quite

112
00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,320
Speaker 1: competent and confident, not over the top, you know. But

113
00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,720
Speaker 1: and then in other situations, circumstance, environment, people, I can

114
00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,880
Speaker 1: feel like the biggest fuck with ever, you know. So

115
00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,680
Speaker 1: for me, it's contextual. It depends who I'm with, where

116
00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,760
Speaker 1: I'm at, what I'm doing. Like when I started my

117
00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,359
Speaker 1: HD three and a bit years ago, I felt like

118
00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,839
Speaker 1: I definitely shouldn't be there. I'm not smart enough, I'm

119
00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:12,400
Speaker 1: too old, I'm like every reason to undermine myself, to

120
00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,880
Speaker 1: self sabotage, to fuck it up. That's all I could

121
00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,000
Speaker 1: think of. For the first six months. I felt like

122
00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:19,159
Speaker 1: a complete fraud.

123
00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know that imposter syndrome that I am

124
00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,760
Speaker 3: keen sort of you know, board member of committee. It

125
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:28,560
Speaker 3: does come out right, But I think that makes you

126
00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,120
Speaker 3: a bit of You're a better person if you have that,

127
00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,560
Speaker 3: rather than being too overconfident, cocky in an arshole. I mean,

128
00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:36,880
Speaker 3: you know that's.

129
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,160
Speaker 1: Are they clinical terms. I'm just I'm taking notes.

130
00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,679
Speaker 3: It's in the DSM six that's still.

131
00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:51,800
Speaker 1: That's hilarious. And so when you when you're reflecting on

132
00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,680
Speaker 1: you in the seventies and you in the eighties as

133
00:06:54,720 --> 00:07:01,679
Speaker 1: a an overthinking, you know, self conscious gay kid trying

134
00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:06,520
Speaker 1: to navigate life. When you went back to your school,

135
00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:08,000
Speaker 1: did stuff come up for you?

136
00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,800
Speaker 3: I think the first yeares because actually I left. It

137
00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,240
Speaker 3: was so funny because I'm prenny with Osha Gunsberg, right,

138
00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:16,320
Speaker 3: and I love him. We were on the board of

139
00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,000
Speaker 3: Saying together and during the Schizophrenia Week two years ago,

140
00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:21,560
Speaker 3: he said, hey, come let me chat to you about

141
00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:23,760
Speaker 3: you know, schizophrenia and your work as a psychiatrist and

142
00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,320
Speaker 3: blah blah blah, and you start the podcast and like you,

143
00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,880
Speaker 3: he just turned to me and went, so tell me

144
00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,960
Speaker 3: what was it like growing up fucking gay in South Africa?

145
00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,880
Speaker 3: That's I said, was supposed to be talking about schizophrenia. Now,

146
00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,760
Speaker 3: thanks very much, chat about I did not go back

147
00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,240
Speaker 3: to my school or the environment for thirty four years,

148
00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,320
Speaker 3: and then seven years ago I got in touch with

149
00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,480
Speaker 3: my ex biology teacher. I used her notes in my

150
00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:52,560
Speaker 3: first year at medical school. That's how good she was,

151
00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,920
Speaker 3: you know, survivgy on that all and she is an

152
00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:02,000
Speaker 3: amazing woman because she's quite religious. And I thought when

153
00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,520
Speaker 3: I wrote to her that it was all my own stuff.

154
00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,720
Speaker 3: You know, you got your own stuff from when you're younger.

155
00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:14,000
Speaker 3: And I took John with me to dinner and she

156
00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,080
Speaker 3: opened the door, gave me a big hug, and there

157
00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,080
Speaker 3: was her gay friends from Amsterdam, who part of a

158
00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:24,080
Speaker 3: charity that she's also involved with for years. She goes, Mike,

159
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,560
Speaker 3: I've always been pretty gay friendly and open, and but

160
00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,280
Speaker 3: you don't see that when you're younger and looking inward

161
00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,400
Speaker 3: and worrying about your own stuff all the time. It

162
00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,360
Speaker 3: was amazing. So yeah, so I've reconnected with my school,

163
00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:40,080
Speaker 3: which I never thought I would.

164
00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,559
Speaker 1: How How I mean, I'm sure you've been asked this

165
00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:47,600
Speaker 1: a thousand times, but as ever, as long or brief

166
00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:52,600
Speaker 1: as you want, But what was school like for you?

167
00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,280
Speaker 3: High school? You know, I was a prefect, I did

168
00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,480
Speaker 3: well and was but it was it was completely hidden.

169
00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,880
Speaker 3: I didn't want to acknowledge that I was gay. I

170
00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,800
Speaker 3: knew it, you know, in some level. And when I

171
00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,600
Speaker 3: was fifteen, in my year ten equivalent, I was bullied

172
00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,360
Speaker 3: a bit and it was difficulty at school and I

173
00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,880
Speaker 3: actually i wasn't in the top three for the first time.

174
00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:15,360
Speaker 3: That might sound a bit weird to people, but it

175
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,240
Speaker 3: was the only year in the form, and I thought, well,

176
00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,480
Speaker 3: I did no one pick this up? Right? But I

177
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:26,599
Speaker 3: also in looking back, I was quite a strong personality

178
00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,959
Speaker 3: kid too. And and to shows you how young our

179
00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,240
Speaker 3: teachers were out forty years on, four of them are

180
00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,679
Speaker 3: still teaching at my school, and one of them is

181
00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:37,480
Speaker 3: a school counselor. And I'm going to talk to him

182
00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:41,000
Speaker 3: on the documentary next time. He's saying, Mark, I didn't

183
00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,720
Speaker 3: think you had any issues. You looked you always looked

184
00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,079
Speaker 3: so suave and fine at school and you were in control. Meanwhile,

185
00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,880
Speaker 3: inside I was going, what the hell I need help?

186
00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:51,240
Speaker 3: But nobody picked it up.

187
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,839
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but I think we become and whether or

188
00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,240
Speaker 1: not it's we're trying to hide our sexuality or or

189
00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,439
Speaker 1: something else, you know, whether or not it's you know, anxiety,

190
00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,600
Speaker 1: we're trying to pretend we're confident or or we feel

191
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,080
Speaker 1: inadequate or imposter syndrome. I feel like there's the persona.

192
00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,880
Speaker 1: There's the the work persona, the school persona, the public

193
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,760
Speaker 1: kind of thing, and then there's the person underneath it.

194
00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:21,400
Speaker 1: And opening that door and being vulnerable. You know, that's

195
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,040
Speaker 1: the challenge, isn't it.

196
00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,679
Speaker 3: It is a huge challenge and one that I've accepted

197
00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,760
Speaker 3: because you know, go, what do I want to do

198
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,480
Speaker 3: when I get older? I want to be the real me.

199
00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:31,640
Speaker 3: I want to be open about who I am. I

200
00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,600
Speaker 3: want to about who I am to the people I treat.

201
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:39,640
Speaker 3: And I've had various levels of me saying about that

202
00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,920
Speaker 3: or advice that I shouldn't do that. We got taught

203
00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,160
Speaker 3: at medical school in the eighties to be stiff upper

204
00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:50,719
Speaker 3: lip doctors. No, bess, don't show anything of yourself. I've

205
00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,959
Speaker 3: just ignored that most of my life, but I haven't

206
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,160
Speaker 3: really come out. If somebody asked me, it was it's

207
00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,280
Speaker 3: only women who are menic that ever asked me out right.

208
00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,960
Speaker 3: It's so funny in my work, and then of course

209
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,719
Speaker 3: I say, yeah, I am. I'm not going to lie.

210
00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,640
Speaker 3: But there was that pressure not to be open, certainly

211
00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,520
Speaker 3: in the eighties and nineties as a psychiatrist. So's it's

212
00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,160
Speaker 3: quite liberating in one level. But I gave a speech

213
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,080
Speaker 3: about it a couple of years ago and the professor

214
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,840
Speaker 3: I'm not friendly with you came up to me and

215
00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,880
Speaker 3: he said, Mark you very brave, and I go, well,

216
00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:31,160
Speaker 3: why I'm just being myself. That's not bravery, that's that's

217
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,640
Speaker 3: maybe it is part I don't know's how are we

218
00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,760
Speaker 3: supposed to help others with their emotional journey or mental

219
00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,840
Speaker 3: health journey if you can't be open about who you

220
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,920
Speaker 3: are and what you are and so many people, most

221
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:48,560
Speaker 3: of the people I treat, it's trauma, trauma, trauma, traumaun

222
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:53,280
Speaker 3: and because society doesn't accept them whatever was. Of course,

223
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,120
Speaker 3: I think that's leading away in a way, but because

224
00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,040
Speaker 3: it doesn't make it less anxiety provoking.

225
00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, I agree with you, and I think that

226
00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,040
Speaker 1: if you're the best in inverted commas, whatever that means,

227
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,400
Speaker 1: you're the best clinician, the best psychiatrist, the best doctor,

228
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,600
Speaker 1: You've got the highest IQ, you've got the best marks,

229
00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:15,520
Speaker 1: you've got the most knowledge, but you're an unapproachable prick

230
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,360
Speaker 1: and I don't get any warmth from you, and you

231
00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,160
Speaker 1: don't seem to care about me, and you've got the

232
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:27,480
Speaker 1: emotional intelligence of a fucking stamp, and like, it's one

233
00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:31,040
Speaker 1: thing to be brilliant and to understand human behavior and

234
00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,520
Speaker 1: all of that, but we as patients, what we want

235
00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,439
Speaker 1: from you is we want you to give a fuck

236
00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,120
Speaker 1: like I actually want to like you. It doesn't matter

237
00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,760
Speaker 1: how brilliant you are. If I'm not comfortable with you,

238
00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:44,800
Speaker 1: if I don't think you care, if I don't think

239
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,200
Speaker 1: you're genuine, I'm not coming back or I'm definitely not

240
00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,280
Speaker 1: trusting you. Even if I have to come.

241
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,040
Speaker 3: Back, I agree, I've got and add to that, I

242
00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,720
Speaker 3: could just only openly agree. And I've had to close

243
00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,280
Speaker 3: my books because I'm so busy. So being open hasn't

244
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,800
Speaker 3: hurt me professionally in any way, or hasn't hurt my

245
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:08,160
Speaker 3: career at all, and in fact, it's made it stronger

246
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:12,480
Speaker 3: and more meaningful. And you know, I want to be treated.

247
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,640
Speaker 3: I treat people like my family, or I think would

248
00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:18,640
Speaker 3: my family if this is a member of my family,

249
00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,160
Speaker 3: this is my son, would I want the doctor or

250
00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:26,719
Speaker 3: the team to react in this way. That's why I've

251
00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,320
Speaker 3: always practiced right, and it's and I tell my patients

252
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,800
Speaker 3: if you're seeing a psychologist or somebody or even a psychotriage,

253
00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:34,320
Speaker 3: don't have to stay with me, and so we don't gel.

254
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:34,920
Speaker 3: That's fine.

255
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, at the end of the day, if you don't.

256
00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,839
Speaker 3: Jail with someone, then it's your right to go. This

257
00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,080
Speaker 3: isn't working for me. I don't find someone else. The

258
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:44,960
Speaker 3: problem is sometimes you can't find someone else.

259
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,280
Speaker 1: That's true. And the thing is, and I've said this

260
00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,280
Speaker 1: before and on this show, you know, like I said

261
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,040
Speaker 1: to you before we press the go, but not done.

262
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:58,439
Speaker 1: How We've done over a thousand shows, and I've got

263
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:00,680
Speaker 1: lots of bullshit and lots of issues self doubt and

264
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:05,640
Speaker 1: insecurity and overthinking and you know, and it goes in

265
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,439
Speaker 1: waves of where I feel better or worse about myself

266
00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,400
Speaker 1: and ego and bullshit. And I want you to love

267
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:12,960
Speaker 1: me because I'm an only child and I was a

268
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,000
Speaker 1: fat kid, and I was all these things. But the

269
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,400
Speaker 1: more that you know without being too self indulgent or

270
00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,120
Speaker 1: boring people to death with your own bullshit. But for me,

271
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:30,560
Speaker 1: the more honest you are and authentic, the more people

272
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 1: relate to you. It's like, yes, you're a doctor, Yes

273
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:35,800
Speaker 1: you understand the mind, and yes you understand the brain

274
00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,440
Speaker 1: and human behavior, and yes you're well trained and qualified,

275
00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,840
Speaker 1: but also you get them like you get them on

276
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,240
Speaker 1: a personal level, and they get you because you're kind

277
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,120
Speaker 1: of like them, you know. And I think that it's

278
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,000
Speaker 1: ironic that they say, correct me if I fuck this up, Doc,

279
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:53,640
Speaker 1: But they kind of say to you, be a bit

280
00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,240
Speaker 1: of a closed book, don't open up, don't be vulnerable

281
00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,920
Speaker 1: with your patients, don't let them really know anything about

282
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,440
Speaker 1: you or your personal life. And that's a directive which

283
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,520
Speaker 1: I think actually produces the opposite of what's required for

284
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:08,760
Speaker 1: great session.

285
00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,920
Speaker 3: And it leads to so many issues in members of

286
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:18,080
Speaker 3: my profession. You know, surprise, we've got high drug alcohol rates,

287
00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,600
Speaker 3: divorce rates, especially in the females, and our professional highest

288
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:26,680
Speaker 3: suicide rates than the average population. But you still don't

289
00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,800
Speaker 3: It's still considered a weakness. You come for help if

290
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:32,640
Speaker 3: you've got mental health issues, which of course I'm trying

291
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,600
Speaker 3: to break down. Those barriers go back to how we're

292
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,960
Speaker 3: supposed to interact with someone. Yes, you've got to be open,

293
00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,960
Speaker 3: and I think COVID showing that right. So look at

294
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,119
Speaker 3: us now chatting. Melbourne's having a great.

295
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:47,360
Speaker 1: Now I didn't.

296
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:52,200
Speaker 3: I hadn't heard of zoom before. The guy who invented

297
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,920
Speaker 3: zoom or whatever sold it just before COVID sounds like

298
00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,280
Speaker 3: a lovely guy. When do these things happen? But you know,

299
00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,200
Speaker 3: we all know what it is now, right, and this

300
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,800
Speaker 3: is how we can can actually interact. I saw all

301
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,960
Speaker 3: my regular patients and consumers on my service in their

302
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,000
Speaker 3: homes for the first time, so you know, they talk

303
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:09,640
Speaker 3: about the cats and the dogs and the kids, and

304
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,520
Speaker 3: couple were smoking in front of me, going hey, doctor,

305
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:13,320
Speaker 3: and I can smoke in front of you now I'm

306
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:17,520
Speaker 3: in my house, showing me that there was even more

307
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:22,440
Speaker 3: of a connection. I think this medium and what am

308
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,600
Speaker 3: I supposed to do? A couple of times I was

309
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,320
Speaker 3: in my gym jams, I was cold and I'm not bloody,

310
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,760
Speaker 3: changing laugh together and going, well, you know, we don't

311
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,200
Speaker 3: have to focus on that. We're having a nice chat.

312
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,000
Speaker 3: How are you doing. Let's just work out how you

313
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,240
Speaker 3: stay well or we can maintain wellness during this really

314
00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,000
Speaker 3: difficult time. But being open with each other and showing

315
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,120
Speaker 3: us I was because you still have to have boundaries people,

316
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,480
Speaker 3: that's very important. You've got to have boundaries, of course,

317
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:52,760
Speaker 3: but they don't have to be rigid, and they don't

318
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,760
Speaker 3: have to be one sided, you know, one on one.

319
00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,240
Speaker 3: Don't have sex with your patients. I think that's quite

320
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:00,680
Speaker 3: a good one too. You go by you.

321
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,400
Speaker 1: I stick by that, yeah, I reckon. Personal trainers need

322
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,240
Speaker 1: to know that. One to doc, because that doesn't end well.

323
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:12,960
Speaker 3: Well, trust if I haven't worked in the gym industry

324
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:13,600
Speaker 3: for many years.

325
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,119
Speaker 1: So I'll tell you what. There's a whole lot of

326
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,760
Speaker 1: the dance with no pants that goes on between trainers

327
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,680
Speaker 1: and clients. Don't worry about that. Oh what, no, fuck off?

328
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:27,040
Speaker 1: That doesn't. Yeah, anyway, moving on, So I want to

329
00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:33,399
Speaker 1: ask you, doctor Mark, if if anxiety is on a

330
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:38,200
Speaker 1: scale from say one to ten, could you describe one

331
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,639
Speaker 1: and could you describe ten? And I know this is

332
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,720
Speaker 1: a bullshit scale that I just hypothetically created for this conversation,

333
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,320
Speaker 1: but if there's a obviously it's not. It's not the

334
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,720
Speaker 1: same earth intensity or volume or experience for everyone, and

335
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,960
Speaker 1: somebody's one might be someone else's for I get that,

336
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,320
Speaker 1: but in general terms, what does a one or two

337
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:01,480
Speaker 1: look like? So what does a nine or ten look like?

338
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,399
Speaker 3: Yeah? Sure, no, that's I ask people to do that

339
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,520
Speaker 3: all the time. So one is you're starting to feel

340
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,800
Speaker 3: that sort of fight or flight sort of heart rate

341
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:13,960
Speaker 3: going a bit stem, to feel a bit anxious, sweaty

342
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,359
Speaker 3: thinking about something that's about to transpire or thinking about

343
00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,120
Speaker 3: something that's not going to transpire. Because that's generalized anxiety.

344
00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,119
Speaker 3: It's sort and you're starting to overthink. But then you

345
00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:24,840
Speaker 3: can go, you know what, I'm using my skills and

346
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,399
Speaker 3: I'm going to go and ground myself and go for

347
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,040
Speaker 3: a walk and all those sort of things at work,

348
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,840
Speaker 3: and so it doesn't really affect your functioning because it's

349
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:37,159
Speaker 3: always a mixture of symptoms and then functioning, right, so

350
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:42,639
Speaker 3: you're coping. It's affecting you about nothing as sort of

351
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,879
Speaker 3: grounding mindful technique won't sort of help with TO ten,

352
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:51,320
Speaker 3: which is panic attack, and that is where you are

353
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,760
Speaker 3: so worked up that your heart's and your mouth going

354
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,320
Speaker 3: one hundred and forty miles an hour, your chests constricting

355
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,160
Speaker 3: your pupils, dilating you in that really I'm just about

356
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,119
Speaker 3: to jump the fence with no external danger sort of

357
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,200
Speaker 3: you feel you're dying from a heart attack. And then

358
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:13,440
Speaker 3: often where people present to the emergency development right because

359
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,080
Speaker 3: they think they're dying, they're about to faint from all

360
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:20,000
Speaker 3: this horrible stuff going in their bodies and their minds,

361
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,280
Speaker 3: and you cannot talk yourself out of it or use

362
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,520
Speaker 3: your grunting. That's out of the window, and you're then

363
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:32,400
Speaker 3: walking in an increasingly loop wormhole. You're gotting down. That's

364
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:33,240
Speaker 3: where I put ten.

365
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I guess when you're up around that nine ten,

366
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,040
Speaker 1: and then you get overwhelmed by what's going on physiologically

367
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 1: in a heart rate, adrenaline, all of those things, sympathetic,

368
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:48,600
Speaker 1: nervous system, dad that are and you then you start

369
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,240
Speaker 1: to think you're going to die. That just as you said,

370
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:57,200
Speaker 1: that exacerbates. So what's the circuit breaker or is there

371
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,600
Speaker 1: not one? Is it just time? Is it just yeah?

372
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,479
Speaker 1: Rather than I offer answers, why don't you just help us?

373
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:06,360
Speaker 3: No? No, no, it is are you I mean you talked

374
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,440
Speaker 3: about exercise physiology earlier. I'm really a fan of that now.

375
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,959
Speaker 3: I mean I think in terms of you learn some

376
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,080
Speaker 3: preventative measures, so you cut it off at the past

377
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,919
Speaker 3: before it gets to that point. But then you've got

378
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,359
Speaker 3: measures in place, skills that you've learned. And this is

379
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 3: for people who've had it before. When first when it

380
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 3: first comes on, sometimes you're not prepared for it, and

381
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,679
Speaker 3: then it's bloody awful, right, and then the circuit breaker

382
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,640
Speaker 3: often there is getting help. Hopefully you've got somebody around

383
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,440
Speaker 3: who can talk you down and help you, or you

384
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 3: end up in the emergency department. So the circuit breaker

385
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 3: is those sort of grounding techniques that we've talk including exercise,

386
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:52,679
Speaker 3: and maybe one simple way of saying this is I

387
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,119
Speaker 3: said to people, you've got the emotional mind, you've got

388
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,720
Speaker 3: an emotional response, cognition and thinking about things and talking

389
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,119
Speaker 3: through who comes later. At that moment, you have to

390
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 3: do something physical. And part of grounding techniques is that

391
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,159
Speaker 3: you know, you go barefoot into the mud or sand outside,

392
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,920
Speaker 3: you hold it the ice. You've got to do something physical,

393
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 3: shock yourself out what's happening to you in your body

394
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,200
Speaker 3: at the time, and then you go, oh, okay, now

395
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,239
Speaker 3: I'm thinking, oh that's right. Mindful techniques or exercise, Let

396
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 3: me go for a little walk around the block, go

397
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,640
Speaker 3: kill some tree, bark things like that, that real sort

398
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,879
Speaker 3: of physicality that's important, and then come back. Then I

399
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 3: can look at some of my more intellectual exercises and

400
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 3: start the positive self talk that be useful.

401
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 1: Yes, I make yeah, one hundred percent. And also I

402
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,199
Speaker 1: guess like even things like so I'm writing notes as

403
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,679
Speaker 1: you're as you're talking, which is a very bad habit

404
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,479
Speaker 1: for a host of a show, but fuck, could everyone

405
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 1: live on the edge. I'm taking notes because I'm learning

406
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 1: because I'm a student. But also things like box breathing

407
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 1: right as well, if you can manage that or just

408
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 1: you know that kind of controlled in hold out slow

409
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: like some of that which kind of can hopefully turn

410
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 1: on the parasympathetic nervous system a little bit.

411
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 3: Yes, you're looking at by feedback the stuff that really

412
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,679
Speaker 3: is useful. Breathing is amazing. So if you look at

413
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:25,920
Speaker 3: when I trained, you know, I talked about the relaxation

414
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 3: techniques and the needs to have relaxation groups. Yeah, it

415
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:33,879
Speaker 3: looked exactly at this a muscle tensing breathing whilst you

416
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 3: in that sort of heightened mode. Now I suppose now

417
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 3: we talk more about the grounding techniques and it's similar

418
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 3: sort of stuff. Right, So breathing is incredible. So I'm

419
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 3: a breath holder, so then you even now so I'm

420
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 3: holding my breath while I'm talking to you. Yeah, and

421
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:59,439
Speaker 3: there's certain techniques like the holding breath both inhaling and

422
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 3: ex Yeah, that's a really useful technique, right, absolutely, like

423
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 3: you just mentioned.

424
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 1: All right, can I ask you a personal question, it's

425
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:15,199
Speaker 1: not too personal based on our scale that we did before,

426
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 1: zero being no anxiety just out of curiosity. What's your

427
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 1: number right now?

428
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 3: It's just it's quite low. But it's interesting just to

429
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 3: add a little bit of a caveat to that scale.

430
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 3: We're talking about the scales of anxiety. So you go

431
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 3: from anxiety to panic. Yes, my sort of anxiety, though

432
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 3: it's slightly different. It's that sort of disconnected anxiety, so

433
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 3: that de realization, depersonalization where you disconnect but looking incredibly calm,

434
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 3: also unfocused because everything's going internal, which leads to the

435
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 3: worst bit of that is that dissociation that people have

436
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:01,439
Speaker 3: heard about more now, So that's quite I don't associate,

437
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 3: but I sometimes feel very disconnected and sort of head

438
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 3: with the head going inwards. I'm not eating that at

439
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 3: all at the moment. So let's all users scale. But no,

440
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 3: you've really you've put me at ease. But I hope

441
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 3: you well make sense of water melon.

442
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: Well, you're really good at this, so and that's not

443
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: me trying to make you feel good. So I want

444
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,959
Speaker 1: to I want to run a few things that I

445
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: think can relate to or have an impact on anxiety.

446
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: And I'm just going to say some words, and you're

447
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 1: going to tell me about that thing and anxiety. The

448
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 1: relationship if any Is that all right?

449
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 3: Sure?

450
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: Right here we go Number one, Sleep and anxiety.

451
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 3: Big, big, big, sleep and mood pivotal. You have to sleep.

452
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 3: You have to get good grounded's mindful sleep. You have

453
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 3: to have your circadian rhythms in check. You have to

454
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 3: have a routine for sleep, early sleep, early wake, and

455
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 3: keep this saying routine even if you're doing various other things.

456
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 3: Are going out for another that's sure, wake up the

457
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 3: same time in the morning, do something. You can go

458
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 3: back to bed then, But it's that sleep wake cycle

459
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 3: that's really important.

460
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 1: Perfect exercise and anxiety or movement.

461
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:23,239
Speaker 3: Again pivotal. So I look at the lifestyle stuff in

462
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 3: every single one of my sessions with my patients. Diet, sleep, exercise. Sorry,

463
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 3: maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, but in terms

464
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 3: of sleep and exercise, not only does exercise help your

465
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 3: heart rate and your energy levels and your fitness, it

466
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 3: absolutely releases in doorphins, which is part of that lovely

467
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 3: chain of events, cascades in the neurotransmitters neurochemicals in the

468
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 3: brain that bring down your anxiety. So that's part of

469
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 3: it as well, which is also the sort of triggering

470
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 3: for meditation. And yoga.

471
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: I feel like exercises itself an antidepressant and anti axiotic.

472
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 3: It absolutely, it's great for any mood. And you know

473
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 3: even when you feel I see an exercise physologist altho.

474
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 3: I've taken a break now, but over Christmas. And every

475
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 3: time you go, like anything, you know with anxiety, you

476
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 3: feel anxious beforehand, or you just don't feel like it,

477
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 3: or who wants to get out of bed in a

478
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 3: cold day? Right the hell? And then you there and

479
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 3: doing something, And that's a bit like anxiety itself. It's

480
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 3: always it feels worse than when you actually do something. Anticipation, yes,

481
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 3: and then you're there and chatting and stretching and doing something,

482
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 3: and when you're feeling not so great at the time

483
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 3: because it's actually pushing even the your meaning like Ellen

484
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 3: getting I don't wanted any cordivescul exercise today, and then

485
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 3: the whole day afterwards, you're buzzing and you interacting better

486
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,239
Speaker 3: and you're feeling great, and you go exercise does thing

487
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 3: to work?

488
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 1: Well? It changes you buy a chemistry, doesn't it. It's

489
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: like doc, when you you get in trouble at school

490
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: and you get sent to the principal's office, and you've

491
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: got to sit outside. You've got to sit on a

492
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: chair outside. This may or may not have happened to

493
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: me thirteen times where you've got to sit outside and

494
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: you're shitting yourself because you're about to get expelled or

495
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: suspended or your parents are going to you know, and

496
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: it's horrendous. And then two hours later the principal walks

497
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: out and says, go back to your classroom. Because the

498
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: punishment was the two hours sitting there, right, he didn't

499
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: need to say anything. The anticipation of the anxiety, the overthinking,

500
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: the visualizing of all the shit that was going to happen,

501
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: Like I punished myself for two hours.

502
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 3: Yes, but also you're also exposing yourself at the time

503
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 3: to these so then you realize it's getting wor it's

504
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 3: getting worse, and then you go, well, fuck it. Whatever's

505
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 3: going to happen now is going to happen. It's part

506
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 3: of the exposure, which is which is interesting, right, But yeah,

507
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 3: so you're building yourself up. But again that's an external event.

508
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 3: So that's the one thing I'll say with stress and anxiety,

509
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 3: we've got an external event that's causing an anxiety response.

510
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,719
Speaker 3: And when that goes, things go down, right, If you've

511
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 3: got an anxiety condition, sometimes that doesn't work and you

512
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 3: don't have the external response, so you getting this horrible

513
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 3: response and it's not linked to anything. Yeah, that's the

514
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 3: worst bit because you can just like free float for

515
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 3: a long time and you have to work on skills

516
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 3: sets and whatever you're going to do to that for

517
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 3: for a while longer.

518
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: Is one of the I don't know if is this

519
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: is the right term, but exposure therapy. Like one of

520
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: the quests I did a lot of corporate speaking. One

521
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: of the questions I get asked a lot or a

522
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: lot over the years anyway, is how do I overcome

523
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: my fear of public speaking? In my answer is by

524
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: public speaking? Right, Like, you can't you can't get good

525
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: at what you're not doing. You can't overcome a fear

526
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: you won't confront, you know, and obviously how you do that?

527
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: You know there are levels and there are sizes of audiences,

528
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: and there are different situations. But is that, you know,

529
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: like just something that creates anxiety, which might be ten X,

530
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: we call that that stimulus, that anxiety producing stimulus ten X.

531
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: If we just open the door on one X, is

532
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: that a good way to start Or is that complete

533
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: psychobabble from a bloke who doesn't know what he's talking about.

534
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 3: No, it's very clearly know exactly what you're talking about.

535
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 3: It's you just hit the nail on the head. Yeah,

536
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 3: the thing about public speaking, but think about anxiety. So

537
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 3: I actually perform quite well so and I fun acknowledge that.

538
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 3: So it's a lead up to it that then gets

539
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 3: so bad for some people that they're and they can't

540
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 3: go on. It's not actually the event itself, it's that

541
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 3: things have built up so much at that point that

542
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 3: they're getting panic and then they just can't do it.

543
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 3: A lot of people, myself included. When you finally there,

544
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 3: and that's part of the exposure, you realize, actually if

545
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 3: you expose yourself and you rank it so you don't

546
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 3: do the biggest one first, the lowest one first.

547
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: Progressive overload. We call it an exercise physiology.

548
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 3: And it's similar, and so you rank and you do

549
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 3: hierarchical sort of exposure, and so you realize as you're

550
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 3: doing it, oh, this isn't as bad as my you know, prefront,

551
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 3: all my other parts of my brain that are going

552
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 3: into overdrive led me to believe. The problem then is

553
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 3: people don't quite understand or except you've got anxiety to

554
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 3: go well, and everyone gets anxious before we talk or whatever.

555
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 3: As I said, no, it's the pre people don't witness

556
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 3: that often you go talk to my husband and the

557
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 3: post because then you become a flaky mess afterwards because going,

558
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 3: oh my god, what did I think I'll talk too

559
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 3: long when I talked to Craig And maybe I didn't

560
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 3: swear enough and I'm not part of the and it's like,

561
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 3: you know, it's all that stuff that happens afterwards at

562
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 3: two in the morning when you're not able to sleep.

563
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 3: So you've got to look at all those things, but

564
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 3: absolutely expose, expose, expose because and the Yerx Dodson curve

565
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 3: is a lot of name to it. All the slots

566
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 3: in medicine have been taken. Unfortunately, there's nothing going to

567
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 3: be named after me. So as you know, you were

568
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 3: going to do quite well when something's named after you,

569
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 3: and this is curve. It's exposure over time and actually

570
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 3: the anxiety comes down.

571
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, it's longer. What about doc the So I'm

572
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: just holding up everyone a candle, right, just because I

573
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: know this is not visual for most of you. So

574
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: I'm holding up this and I go, oh, this, which

575
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: is just a thing. This stresses me, this causes this

576
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: makes me anxious. Right. But there's the thing that we

577
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: say makes us anxious. The stimulus, the external thing. It

578
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: could be having to talk, It could be seeing a spider,

579
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: it could be it could be sitting in for a

580
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: job interview. Right, whatever the thing, the trigger, the stimulus,

581
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: the event, the object, whatever that is, there's that which

582
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: is meaningless and to we're involved, then we give it meaning. Right.

583
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: So what's the space between the thing and then my

584
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: story about the thing? In other words, am I creating stress?

585
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: Or is it creating stress? Is that my stress response

586
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: to an inert thing?

587
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 3: Again, who knows where it comes from? Right? And it's

588
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 3: not logical, that's our point. It's illogical. We used to

589
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 3: call anxiety conditions the neurotic conditions versus like as we

590
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 3: lose touch with reality. Right. The crap thing about having

591
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 3: anxiety is that you know it's logical. You know it's

592
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 3: your own thoughts. You know that all the stuff going

593
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 3: through your head, all the fears and worries linked to

594
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 3: the candle, linked to that, are really.

595
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 4: Quite yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it doesn't change the

596
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 4: fact that when you're in the middle of it, all

597
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 4: of that cognition and insight doesn't take away the fucking

598
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 4: terror or the anxiety.

599
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: Like you might understand what's happening, but you still can't

600
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: turn it off.

601
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 3: No, it's craps. I'll give you a you know, I've

602
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 3: got a sleep disorder from the edge of four, I've

603
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 3: had night terrors, and yes, in the South African context,

604
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 3: you know, there's not it's not without its own issues

605
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 3: of crime and whatever. But I'm lying in my house

606
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 3: in a very safe part of Sydney and I can't sleep,

607
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 3: and I'm hearing noises of the wind and the roof

608
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 3: and I know I'm lying there going don't be ridiculous.

609
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 3: This is not it's not harmful. Maybe I shouldn't watch

610
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 3: Game of Thrones before I went to bed, hey, or

611
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 3: Stranger Things straight to all those things that I love

612
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 3: watching A big surprise when coming back to sleep, and

613
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 3: when you don't watch TV or whatever before the night,

614
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 3: you sleep better. So I've got to listen to myself.

615
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 3: Sometimes you're lying there and you're getting more and more

616
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 3: worked up and you can't sleep because all these irrational

617
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 3: fears are going through your head, and then you wonder

618
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 3: why I actually, maybe you do have anxiety and you're

619
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 3: not a fake after all saying these things because you

620
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 3: concept you can't scept that is the issue. And of

621
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 3: course you know there's there's a link. You've got to

622
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 3: try and unlink it in the various techniques I suppose,

623
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 3: but some things are pretty hard to unlink.

624
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't finish my list. Okay, so we did sleep,

625
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: we did exercise. Are you kind of opened the door

626
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: a bit on food? Is there any kind of intersection

627
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: between relationship between food and anxiety.

628
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 3: I'm really into gut health Nation. My passions are rolling

629
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 3: the eyes of me because that's all I'm talking about

630
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 3: at the moment.

631
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: I love that you said that I was gonna say

632
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: gut health and microbiome, and I thought you might say,

633
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: shut the fuck up. But we've we had a prof

634
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: on last week who did two episodes and we basically

635
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 1: talked about everything from gut health to fecal transplants, and

636
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: he's coming back. It's so fucking interesting. Yep, really really interesting.

637
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 3: And so when I was doing the research in my book,

638
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 3: you know, trying to overcompensate for my academic condensing and

639
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 3: all that sort of stuff.

640
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: Shut up, it's wonderful, you know.

641
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 3: You know, it's a more practical type person. And sugar

642
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 3: and gluten really really interesting in terms of mood generally. Yeah,

643
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 3: sugar really bad and inflammatory path and so even if

644
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 3: you look at the new sort of search on the

645
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 3: depression even anxiety, they're really looking at it as an

646
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 3: inflammatory response. There's this really interesting guy called Bretison in

647
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 3: the States looking at He looked at this for dementia

648
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 3: and he's gone, no, it's not the neurofobulary tangles that

649
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 3: we should be looking at in the brain of somebody

650
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 3: with dementia. That's the body's inflammtry response to what they're eating.

651
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 3: And that's twenty six leaky holes he talks about in

652
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 3: the gut, including sugar and cutting down meat and not

653
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 3: smoking and cutting down alcohol and looking at the gut microbiome,

654
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 3: but also looking at your vitamins, minerals and trace elements

655
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 3: and looking at pill vitamins that actually get absorbed by

656
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 3: the body that we don't just p out. And if

657
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 3: we look if we even look at what doctors do

658
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 3: now that we didn't do forty years ago, three years ago,

659
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 3: we didn't do vitamins as part of an a usual

660
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 3: work up for people. We do that all the time. Now.

661
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 3: It's part and parcel of what people then go to

662
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 3: see their doctors for and come to absolutely expect. The

663
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 3: next thing, of course, is a gut microbiome. I think, Okay,

664
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 3: we know that we're going to look after ourselves, look

665
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 3: at the diet, make sure we get proper vitamins, minerals

666
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,760
Speaker 3: and that sort of stuff. But now criticism our gut.

667
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 3: I love that that need to be fed properly, and

668
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 3: actually the food is not that bad most of the

669
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 3: time and we can cope. Yeah, why I say is

670
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 3: roll my eyes. I was. I'm also about balance and

671
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 3: come on, I just had pizza, wine and chips with

672
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 3: my kids in front, and they didn't drink the wine.

673
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 3: But that's a thing of joy, and I think you've

674
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 3: got to also let yourself just be yourself in Christmas, right,

675
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 3: we've got to suspend. We've got to suspend all this

676
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 3: stuff every now and then think go, okay, January, I'll

677
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 3: go back on the microbiome and wagon. How old are

678
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 3: your kids, by the way, nearly ten and twelve and

679
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 3: the twelve year olds already told them in not that

680
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 3: that takes much and full puberty and young man studying

681
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 3: high school next to a camp believe it goes so quickly, right.

682
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: No time for liies? Hey everyone, just in case you

683
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,919
Speaker 1: wanted to listen to those after you listen to Doctor Mark.

684
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: Of course, those episodes were Oney and eleven and one

685
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: thy twelve with doctor Bill Sullivan. The title is Pooh, transplants, antibiotics,

686
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: microbiome and bacteria, so Oney and eleven and twelve? What

687
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: about the relationship? And then I'll shut up about the

688
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 1: relationships unless we want to talk about tiff because there's

689
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: just a fucking oh Pandora's box of bullshit going on there, Doc.

690
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: If we want to open that, let's talk about genetics

691
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: and anxiety. Is some people I imagine genetically predisposed to anxiety

692
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 1: and depression?

693
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 3: Again, you know, you're talking about cause and effect, and

694
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,320
Speaker 3: we're talking that age ol. Well, ever, since I was

695
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 3: a medical school before, the sort of nature versus nurture? Right,

696
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 3: how much how much is it in our genes? How

697
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 3: much is it in terms of when we're talking about

698
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 3: a history, like when I talk about family history, so

699
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 3: I've got a very strong family history of various things,

700
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 3: including anxiety and bipolar and depression. And so the more

701
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 3: modern way of looking at that is that you have

702
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 3: there's a genetic sort of predisposition or the genetic markers

703
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 3: for certain things, including anxiety and depression, and they are

704
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 3: switched on. Now, they can be switched on in certain circumstances.

705
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 3: That's when nurture plays a role. And so you know,

706
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 3: you go through a horrible experience like being a refugee,

707
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 3: and that's why they have a higher one of the

708
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 3: various reasons why they have a higher sort of a

709
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 3: lord of mental health issues. And so that's one of

710
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 3: the hypotheses that I find quite interesting now. But yes,

711
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 3: especially with the mood effective illness runs in families.

712
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: Just this is a red herring. Do you know a

713
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: lady called Dr Jody Richardson.

714
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 3: I know the name, Yes, Dr Jody.

715
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: We have on a bunch. She has a podcast called

716
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 1: well Hello Anxiety, and like you, Doc talks about her.

717
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 1: We had out we had the U Project conference a

718
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: couple of months ago and Jody was one of our speakers.

719
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,439
Speaker 1: And what I love about her, she's like you, She's

720
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: just real she's down to earth. And I said to

721
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: her after she spoke, and she killed it. She did

722
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: a great job. She was amazing. And I chatted with

723
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: her on stage and I said, what was your anxiety

724
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 1: level going in? Like and I think she said like

725
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: nine or something like So honest, seven hundred people in

726
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 1: a room, you know, but just killed it and just

727
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: managed it. And like you just says, well, you know,

728
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: I kind of live with with it and manage it.

729
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: And do you think that mental health, which is a

730
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: very big term, do you think that there are more

731
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: people with mental health issues now than forty thirty years ago,

732
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: or just more information and more awareness, I.

733
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 3: Have to say, so, I just say I'm managing it

734
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,359
Speaker 3: a bit better. My husband wants me to take more

735
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 3: things to manage it easier because he has the brunt

736
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,479
Speaker 3: of it. So shout out to cares when we're talking

737
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 3: about these sort of things. Yeah, and sometimes I don't

738
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 3: feel I'm managing it. Well. I suppose with experience, you

739
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 3: get there and it's so I don't want to minimize,

740
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 3: you know. Just that's why I leave everything quite to

741
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 3: the last minute, even talking to you guys. I don't

742
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 3: want to look too much because then you build yourself up.

743
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 3: So I've learned the uniques, right, that's what that's what

744
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 3: you're really talking about in a way. With the rates

745
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 3: of mentally onnes no, I don't. Yes, there's more now

746
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 3: because I think we're talking about it more right, acknowledging

747
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 3: it more so. My mother even I took me to

748
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 3: write my first book for her to finally talk about

749
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 3: her brother has BiPOL and my uncle and two of

750
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 3: her cousins are suicided and one I think was because

751
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 3: he was gay. That's another long story that's never been unearthed.

752
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 3: You know, families don't talk about these things, talk about

753
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 3: these things. And of course you just had COVID. So

754
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 3: twenty twenty University of Queensland led research seventy six million

755
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 3: people worldwide developed anxiety, fifty three million depression. That's a

756
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:59,399
Speaker 3: twenty six percent increase from twenty nineteen measure twenty twenty one.

757
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 3: Yet twenty two wasn't such a great year, was it.

758
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 3: So rates are increasing and you talked about the genetics.

759
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 3: I think there are other factors involved in that society.

760
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 3: Look at our young you know you're talking about their kids,

761
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 3: and have you got kids?

762
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 1: I don't know now I've got too many issues. Thank

763
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: God I didn't produce any kids, so I.

764
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 3: Wasn't going to look sort of further.

765
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: And now it's a fair assumption.

766
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 3: But don't look at me as a gay man. Now

767
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 3: I've got to worry about that. The school. So I

768
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 3: never thought i'd have to worry about things like that, right,

769
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 3: So at least I can go to dinnapology and talk

770
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 3: about the same ship. But going back.

771
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: To the question, you know, I would love to see

772
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 1: you doing fucking kin to drop off and kin to

773
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 1: pick up. That would have I would have laughed my

774
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 1: ass off.

775
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 3: No, to know what, We've got four parents, right, so

776
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 3: the two mothers and the two days. Right, I changed

777
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 3: and happiest twice. I will just acknowledge.

778
00:43:58,480 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: That on you need to try harder.

779
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 3: Thank god, my husband decided he was maternal and he

780
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 3: was going to do all this sort of stuff. So

781
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 3: I put them to bed and I take them to

782
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 3: school by So, no, it is wonderful. I don't wonder

783
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 3: I don't want to minimize that. It is the most

784
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:18,280
Speaker 3: wonderful thing being a parent. To pretend that I'm mister perfect,

785
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 3: I'm certainly not. But you know the difference now and

786
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 3: I know this isn't quite what you are. So we're

787
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 3: talking about parenting. It's being able to say sorry and

788
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 3: that you're wrong and letting your kids tell you when

789
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 3: you're wrong. I mean, we would never do that in

790
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 3: the seventies eighties. We were just got a backhand, an

791
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 3: absolute backhand. And I even mention that to my parents

792
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 3: that just love said yes, it was a different time,

793
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 3: no shit, but it is lovely cuddling your sons and

794
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 3: going yeah, I was a bit grumpy earlier, and hey,

795
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 3: let's debrief about it. And I love that aspect of parenting,

796
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 3: even if I didn't want to change nappies.

797
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,800
Speaker 1: I think it just means you're you know, you're a

798
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 1: bit more evolved, and it's like, this is a this

799
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 1: is probably a selfish question, but fuck it, I've got you.

800
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: Why Why? And I know it's generational and there's no

801
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: I'm not trying on any level to be critical. I'm

802
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:23,240
Speaker 1: more curious, like, why can't some you know, older people,

803
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: they seem not to be able to tell their kids.

804
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's like my mum tells me

805
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: she loves me regularly. My dad never those words have

806
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 1: never come out of his mouth, despite the fact that

807
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 1: he clearly loves me, clearly proud of me, loves me.

808
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: What do you think that's? And I will say, like

809
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: I spoke to them last night. We're talking about plans

810
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 1: for Christmas. They're both still around, thankfully they're both eighty three.

811
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 1: And I said, anyway, I see Christmas day, blah blah blah.

812
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: Mom's like love you and I go love you both,

813
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 1: and Ron's just in the background. It's like silent. What

814
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 1: do you reckon? That's about that inability to say to

815
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 1: someone that you love I love you? What is that block?

816
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 3: It's it is an older generation, you know. That's that

817
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 3: Philip Blake and Pome. You know your parents fuck you up.

818
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 3: That don't mean to, but ever fucked up in that

819
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 3: time by people wearing frock coats. You know that it's

820
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 3: that really difficult thing when they would and I don't

821
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 3: lot of them. I don't know if your dad was

822
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 3: a vet, all those things. You know that these guys

823
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 3: come back from the wall weren't even acknowledged. It wasn't

824
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 3: acknowledged that they had issues. And in terms of that disconnection,

825
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 3: I think that really that really didn't help. Plus the

826
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 3: whole masculinity stuff, you know, sports, you go out, do

827
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 3: you have to, you know, be the breadwinner for the family.

828
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 3: Men don't talk, you know, we just have beers and

829
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 3: then go back to how you know they're the old

830
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:57,760
Speaker 3: family scenario. It's a sign of weakness. It's so sad

831
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 3: that being emotional is still seen as a sign of

832
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 3: weakness in us. Men. And a friend of mine runs

833
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 3: this guy, this organization called mister Perfect actually Victoria and

834
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 3: New South Wales Terry and he he was called mister

835
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 3: perfectcause he's a good looking at his lovely wife and

836
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 3: mass car house kids, you know, the Australian dream. He

837
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,439
Speaker 3: was with these mates in the bar one night, four

838
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 3: of them, and they were just chatting an event. He

839
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 3: just said something clicked on my head and I went, guys,

840
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 3: I can't do this anymore. Last week I was suicidal

841
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 3: and I've I'm on medication. And the one guy goes, I've

842
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 3: meanting a psychologist for three years. The other guy goes,

843
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 3: I've been medication as well for three years. They never

844
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 3: talked about this stuff. Wow, this stuff and again, but

845
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 3: coming to the emotional it's men are so emotionally disconnected

846
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 3: because they weren't taught. They were taught that it's wrong

847
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 3: to It's like makes you vulnerable. And that's so sad,

848
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 3: isn't it. It's a real.

849
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's hard when you've been programmed with that,

850
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: and not only is not only you're not encouraged to

851
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: talk about your feelings or but you're you're literally discouraged.

852
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: And it's it's analogous, as you said, to weakness, like

853
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: it is a bad thing, and then you wake up

854
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: one day and you're eighty three. You're not going to change, right.

855
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 3: It's interesting among dad's eighty five, and he would have thought,

856
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 3: like the whole gay thing, they just did not It

857
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 3: was just not even discussed, right, Yeah. And in fact

858
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 3: I remember him saying when I was eleven, any gay

859
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 3: men masturbator something? I don't know that put my masturbation.

860
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: Okay, super guy. Then it was like, oh my god,

861
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: who say shit like that?

862
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:52,879
Speaker 3: Right?

863
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,280
Speaker 1: So who says that to an eleven year old? Firstly,

864
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: who says that? But then who says that to an

865
00:48:58,600 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 1: eleven year old?

866
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 3: I get hurt? Fine, I mean it was a Although

867
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 3: we were quite open about nudity at home, it was

868
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 3: like the sex thing. You just could not talk about it,

869
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 3: and I.

870
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:10,479
Speaker 1: Don't don't talk about pooing, don't talk about masturbation, yeah,

871
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 1: not all.

872
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 3: Those icky things. So it was and he and this

873
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:17,479
Speaker 3: is the man. So I finally came out. Oh my god,

874
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 3: I wrote them in a letter when I moved to London.

875
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 3: That's why.

876
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: How old were you at this stage in sex?

877
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:23,399
Speaker 3: Oh?

878
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: Wow? You wait?

879
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 3: And they wrote back this letter and I'm going to cry,

880
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 3: so you know. And he my mom wrote, and now

881
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 3: you're going to get AIDS and I'm worrying about you

882
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 3: will He was there in the early nineties, right, And

883
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 3: what you wrote it the side was I don't care.

884
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 3: I love you, You're my son.

885
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,879
Speaker 1: Oh I love that, and I love that over in.

886
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,879
Speaker 3: Nineteen ninety four. So I was like, what twenty nine?

887
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 3: And I took them everywhere we were on the tube.

888
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 3: I'll never forget this, and my father nudges me, go huh,

889
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 3: he goes, look, goes with the he goes, look look, look, okay,

890
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 3: what I think that guy is eyeing you out?

891
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,879
Speaker 1: So here was your wingman. He was trying to find

892
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 1: you some action.

893
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:10,919
Speaker 3: I said, God's sake, he is thanks anyway, I noticed

894
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 3: him five minutes ago. But thanks for thanks for that.

895
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 3: I just thought that was such a like we never

896
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 3: really discussed anything, but he was. I love him to be.

897
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 3: He's just this guy who changed and now he does.

898
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 3: Like Derby and Joan, they live in this little cottage

899
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 3: in their their you know, retirement village, and he's just

900
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 3: washing up in the lawn round there is the white

901
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 3: South African god. I mean, you know, in terms of man,

902
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 3: he didn't even make his own bed and now so

903
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 3: there is there is capacity to change. And the way

904
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:49,760
Speaker 3: you talk about your dad now he's in the background.

905
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 3: He's not minimizing it is then showing more and love

906
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 3: is an action. Actually, I quite like that term. He

907
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 3: can say things, but I think it's also good showing

908
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 3: things and emotions as actions are easier to deal with.

909
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 3: And I'll bet you if you give him my hug

910
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 3: over Christmas, he'll hug you back. Right.

911
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I hug him. I hug him. I have

912
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: to chase him around, but you know, I just pin him.

913
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 1: I'm like a fucking gorilla. I just bring him in,

914
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: but he doesn't.

915
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 3: It was stopped the don't do you know?

916
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: My dad? Actually, I think loves deeply, but he can't

917
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: express you know, my dad is proud of me. Mum says,

918
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: he's always talking to his friends about me and other

919
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: people and all of that stuff. Not that I think

920
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: there's lots to talk about, but he does. And you know,

921
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 1: he's I don't think he even understands what a PhD is,

922
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: but he's quite chuffed that I'm going to become a

923
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: doctor of something. He thinks that's I don't think he

924
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:53,399
Speaker 1: gets what it means. But anyway, Hey, you're a ripper doc.

925
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,800
Speaker 1: I love chatting with you. So your most recent book

926
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 1: is called I Love This. Everyone listening to this title

927
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 1: anxiety expert advice from a neurotic shrink who's lived with

928
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: anxiety all his life. Fucking best title. How has it gone?

929
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:08,880
Speaker 1: The book? I know it's a couple of years now,

930
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 1: How has it gone? Has it been well received?

931
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,320
Speaker 3: It's great? You know it came out as it literally

932
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 3: came out as COVID hit. I was asked the GP conference.

933
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 3: I was talking at the stupiest setup. I thought it

934
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:23,800
Speaker 3: was joking, but he said, did you wait until the

935
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 3: pandemic started?

936
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: Yeah?

937
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 3: Well, you said, you know, I know some things, but

938
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 3: I don't know when a global pandemic is going to

939
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 3: hit our shawes.

940
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: I'm not a profit.

941
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,399
Speaker 3: It just happened, so that did help. I have to say,

942
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 3: some people buy books and anxiety when the world's burning

943
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:43,399
Speaker 3: and plaguing, right, So it has done quite well. Thank

944
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 3: you for asking. And I'm serously writing my next one now.

945
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 3: But I'm managing to avoid it as usual. So we're

946
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 3: talking about avoidance and all those sort of things that

947
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,919
Speaker 3: I'm not very good and I could even avoid talking

948
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 3: about it another going definitely. I have to say I

949
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 3: haven't met someone who I thought could beat me for

950
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,720
Speaker 3: imposter syndrome. But bloody old Craig is doing very well.

951
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 1: I do my very best. I do my best. If

952
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,720
Speaker 1: there's a scale, if there's a if there's a winner,

953
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: I'm winning. Hey, how do people find you? Follow you,

954
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: connect with you? Doc?

955
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:19,320
Speaker 3: So yeah, I do this podcast. It's not a podcast,

956
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 3: that's not a direct competition with you guys. So it's

957
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 3: it's a Thursday night. We do a live half an

958
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,839
Speaker 3: hour chat on Facebook. It's also on then it goes

959
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 3: onto YouTube and I'm via LinkedIn. I do various things

960
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 3: and that's a nice one. It is a nice way

961
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 3: to stay in touch. And I do community stuff and

962
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 3: this is a community. A lot of my patients come

963
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 3: on family and during COVID, I think we read something

964
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:49,320
Speaker 3: like a million people and it was it was incredible

965
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 3: because it was obviously struck a chord with people going

966
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 3: through anxious times and just a big thing for me.

967
00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 3: A big thing for me is connection and staying connected

968
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 3: with people. That's the people. Sometimes what can I do?

969
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 3: How can I how can I stay well? In some way?

970
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 3: You have to be connected. We are connected people as humans.

971
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 3: So that's that's one way of doing it.

972
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,879
Speaker 1: Love it anxiety expert advice from neurotic shrink who's lived

973
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: with anxiety all his life. And also, you've only written

974
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 1: two books, haven't you? Yeah, and your first book is

975
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 1: the doc's first book is Changing Minds, the go to guide,

976
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,399
Speaker 1: the go to god to mental health for family and friends.

977
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 1: So go and buy ten of each of those everyone,

978
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 1: if you would. Because Chrissy is coming and the doc's

979
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: got a plant. You know, he's got some expenses coming up,

980
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:50,839
Speaker 1: so fuck it, live on the edge, stay on the call, Doc,

981
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,799
Speaker 1: But we'll say goodbye officially here and say goodbye off

982
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 1: here in a moment. We appreciate you being on the

983
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: new project. You're a superstar, great communicator, great teacher, and

984
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 1: up duper believable and we fucking love you. Guts, thanks

985
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: for everyone, Thanks for being had, Thanks Steve, Thanks guys,