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Speaker 1: Welcome to Healthy Ish. Dear listeners, thanks for joining us

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Speaker 1: today on this daily podcast from Body and Soul. I

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Speaker 1: am Felicity Harley, malecular nutritionist. Doctor Emma Beckett has five

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Speaker 1: academic degrees relevant to nutrition, food science, and human health,

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Speaker 1: and she has a new book out. It is called

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Speaker 1: You Are More Than What You Eat. She popped into

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Speaker 1: the studio to discuss the prevalence of nutritional disinformation. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is everywhere people. How to spot the red flags

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Speaker 1: next time you're scrolling social media. Plus, she shares her

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Speaker 1: number one tip for eating healthy full. Now, make sure

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Speaker 1: you're listening to our other sister podcast, Extra Healthy Ish,

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Speaker 1: where she unpacks how diret culture gas lights us. You

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Speaker 1: can search for Extra Healthy Ish wherever you get your podcasts. Emma,

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Speaker 1: nice to have you in the studio.

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Speaker 2: Excited to be here. Thank you so nice.

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Speaker 1: Last time, listeners, we did do it via our online studio,

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Speaker 1: but it's so much better when it's in the flesh.

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Speaker 3: Technology is great, but three D is better.

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Speaker 1: I like that.

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Speaker 2: I'm into that. And congratulations on your new book.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: I'm really excited. How does it feel?

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Speaker 3: It feels really empowering to have it out there in

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Speaker 3: the world. I think while you're writing, you don't realize

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Speaker 3: how many thoughts and ideas that you have, and then

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Speaker 3: seeing them all together, I feel really proud of the

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Speaker 3: information and the perspectives that I've managed to put out there.

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Speaker 1: There's some different perspectives. Let's talk about one of those,

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Speaker 1: which some people might disagree with, but I like it.

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Speaker 1: Keeping it simple is stupid. It's actually one of the

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Speaker 1: titles of the chapters in your book. You want to

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Speaker 1: bring complexity back into the nutritional conversation.

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Speaker 2: Explain to us what this means.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so this sounds scary, I know. And often what

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Speaker 3: we do in communications and nutrition particularly is we try

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Speaker 3: and keep things simple, and sometimes that's for marketing, and

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Speaker 3: sometimes that's for motivation purposes, because no one's going to

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Speaker 3: do what you say if you go listen. This is

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Speaker 3: really hard. But complexity isn't the same as difficulty, and

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Speaker 3: complexity is about the fact that we can't simply predict

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Speaker 3: what's going to happen in complex systems, and so it

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Speaker 3: means that some of the things we think we're doing

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Speaker 3: for a lot of benefit are actually a waste of

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Speaker 3: our time and money, and some of the things that

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Speaker 3: we're really stressed about because we're not doing it's actually

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Speaker 3: kind of okay because your body is taking care of that.

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Speaker 3: So leaning into complexity isn't about going this is hard,

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Speaker 3: let's not bother. Leaning into complexity is about going, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I don't need to follow rules, I can apply tools,

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Speaker 3: and I can stress a little bit less about all

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Speaker 3: of this healthy eating stuff.

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Speaker 1: Actually, one point you do make in your book is

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Speaker 1: that you know trusting your body. Our bodies are designed

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Speaker 1: for us to survive, aren't they, And often we don't.

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Speaker 1: We just think I must follow this rule or this

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Speaker 1: person's telling me this, do that, but often we don't

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Speaker 1: actually listen to what our body's trying to tell us.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and because biology is complicated, our bodies are capable

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Speaker 3: of so much more than we think they are. They're

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Speaker 3: very robust, but knowing that they're robust doesn't mean that

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Speaker 3: we should torture them. So it's about being in balance

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Speaker 3: and flux with your body and your situation, rather than

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Speaker 3: trying to stick to rigid rules of correctness or rigid

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Speaker 3: ideas of perfection.

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Speaker 1: How does this oversimplification end up in manifesting diet trends

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Speaker 1: Because and diet culture. I think that's another big message

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Speaker 1: of your book, is how we all just get sucked

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Speaker 1: into diet culture thinking we are being healthy.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 3: So the oversimplification is how the diet cycle happens, and

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Speaker 3: we keep jumping from one just to the next, just

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Speaker 3: to the next simple to the next easy, and inevitably

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Speaker 3: each one of those things fails because of course we

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Speaker 3: can't do one thing or just quit one thing, or

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Speaker 3: just add one thing, just do this, just do this.

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Speaker 2: I mean you talk about the word just, don't you. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And of.

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Speaker 3: Course it doesn't work, but we keep on that cycle

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Speaker 3: of just trying the next thing and just trying the

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Speaker 3: next thing, and then each time it fails, we don't

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Speaker 3: blame the diet. We blame ourselves and we go, Okay,

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Speaker 3: well I wasn't good enough at that one. I'll try

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Speaker 3: the next one. And so just keeps popping up, and

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Speaker 3: the simplification keeps popping up to keep us on the cycle.

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Speaker 3: But it's keeping us distracted. So it's pulling you towards

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Speaker 3: problems that don't need solving, like our body shapes, and

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Speaker 3: pulling us away from problems that we would really love

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Speaker 3: if we could solve, like keeping bodies nourished and healthy.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about a bit about nutrition information on social media,

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Speaker 1: because there is a hell of a lot of it

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Speaker 1: and it's often so hard to know what's I mean.

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Speaker 2: You've got five academic degrees, What's I mean? You can find.

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Speaker 1: Science and a study for anything you want to preach

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Speaker 1: on social media.

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Speaker 2: Can't you?

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Speaker 1: So how can we get better at sorting the bs

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Speaker 1: from the legit?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: So the number one thing is stop taking advice from

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Speaker 3: people based on their appearance, because their appearance is not

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Speaker 3: necessarily connected to what it is that they're doing, and

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Speaker 3: it doesn't mean you're going to look like that if

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Speaker 3: you follow what they're doing, that is then further connected

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Speaker 3: to the bigger picture of check your biases. So we

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Speaker 3: talk a lot about critical thinking, but people think they're

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Speaker 3: being critical in nutrition a lot. And what we really

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Speaker 3: need to do is unpack why do I believe this?

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Speaker 3: And why do I want to believe it? Do I

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Speaker 3: want to believe it because you know that would make

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Speaker 3: my life a lot easier if it was true. Do

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Speaker 3: I want to feel better about myself?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 3: Really, unpacking you know, why we want to believe these

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Speaker 3: things is a really big picture thing. It's a lot

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Speaker 3: of work. It doesn't happen overnight, but it's really used.

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Speaker 1: To a little point actually, because I haven't heard anyone

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Speaker 1: say that before. Anyway, carry on, But.

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Speaker 3: In terms of like things you can do now, it's

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Speaker 3: looking out for the red flags. It's going. Is someone

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Speaker 3: saying this is all I need to do? Are they

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Speaker 3: saying easy or simple or just? Or are they selling

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Speaker 3: you a diet that has a name? Does it sound

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Speaker 3: too good to be true? Well, then it probably is.

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Speaker 3: Are there strict rules? Is it exclusionary? Does it look

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Speaker 3: down on other people who don't eat that way? So

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Speaker 3: if it feels like it's a bit of a diet faction,

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Speaker 3: if it feels like it's too good to be true,

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Speaker 3: probably is, And probably you don't need to be that

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Speaker 3: strict to get the results that you want. But take

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Speaker 3: the bits from different people's advice and apply the bits

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Speaker 3: that work in your life rather than trying to emulate

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Speaker 3: these specific named diets sold by these very specific looking

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Speaker 3: kinds of people.

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Speaker 1: How do you approach social meniuactive on socials? How do

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Speaker 1: you as an academic and expert? What sort of advice

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Speaker 1: do you take from other people?

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Speaker 3: So I think it's about taking information and filtering that

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Speaker 3: through your context. So I always say on social media,

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Speaker 3: this is not advice. This is information, and you choose

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Speaker 3: what to do with it. And I think a lot

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Speaker 3: of people want to sell the entire story and bring

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Speaker 3: people along with them, and whether that's because they're doing

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Speaker 3: it to make money or whether they're doing that because

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Speaker 3: they truly believe in what it is they're sharing with people.

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Speaker 3: But there is no one single way of doing this.

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Speaker 3: So big red flag is if anyone tell you there's

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Speaker 3: only one way to do it, that person is either lying, misinformed, or.

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Speaker 2: Trying to sell something very lazy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that idea of information actually because it's

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Speaker 1: you know, so often we sold advice, but sharing it

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Speaker 1: as information is I'm not telling you to do something.

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Speaker 1: You take on what I'm saying and if it works

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Speaker 1: for you, great, If it doesn't, it doesn't because every

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Speaker 1: single body, as I say that in air quotes, is different.

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Speaker 3: Every body is different, and every life is different, so

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Speaker 3: the context is different. And I don't think we talk

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Speaker 3: enough about context because I think people think that science

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Speaker 3: is about having the right or the wrong answer and

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Speaker 3: telling people they should or need to do. But science

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Speaker 3: is much more complex than that, and it's about applying

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Speaker 3: knowledge and solutions in an appropriate way to the situation.

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Speaker 3: And that is going to look different for everyone. And

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Speaker 3: sometimes people don't like hearing that as an answer because

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Speaker 3: they just want to be doesn't.

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Speaker 2: Give me a solution, does it?

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Speaker 3: But it gives you lots of solutions. So instead of

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Speaker 3: looking for the one solution, having options means you can

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Speaker 3: flex through those options as your context changes through your day,

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Speaker 3: your week, your month, your year.

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Speaker 1: Now with all your academic degrees relevant to nutrition, food science,

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Speaker 1: and human health, and as I read in your book,

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Speaker 1: we make around three hundred decisions about food every day.

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Speaker 1: What's your number one message when it comes to an

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Speaker 1: ex meal?

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Speaker 2: Healthy eating? I mean, what do you call it now?

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Speaker 1: I'm like questioning, I'm like picking up what is it

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Speaker 1: healthy eating? Or how do you frame it?

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Speaker 3: I think healthy eating is a good way to say it.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's a lot of judgment that comes with

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Speaker 3: the term we use around healthy eating. You know, eating well,

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Speaker 3: for example, puts that kind of good bad judgment on it,

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Speaker 3: so we try to avoid that. But healthy is something

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Speaker 3: we can strive for. Acknowledging that health will look different

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Speaker 3: to each person in their context. But my number one

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Speaker 3: thing with healthy eating is stop trying to be perfect,

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Speaker 3: because we keep looking at perfect and going how will

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Speaker 3: I get there? And you know, we model perfect, and

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Speaker 3: we look at a perfect plate of steamed vegetables or

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Speaker 3: raw vegetables, and if you can't access those, if they

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Speaker 3: don't taste good, if you don't know how to cook them,

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Speaker 3: if you don't want to eat them, then that's not

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Speaker 3: perfect anymore. So just be perfectly imperfect, and you know,

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Speaker 3: eat the vegetables in the way that works for you.

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Speaker 2: And enjoy your next meal.

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Speaker 3: Because if it's not enjoyable, then that's going to be

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Speaker 3: a very difficult road to healthy eating. And being stressed

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Speaker 3: and being unhappy that's not healthy either.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, amen, Emma, thank you for coming on healthy, thank

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Speaker 2: you for having me. Well there you have it.

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Speaker 1: Some red flags you need to look out for next

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Speaker 1: time you ask social media and see that well easy

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Speaker 1: or effortless tag that hack on TikTok perhaps may not

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Speaker 1: be what it's all sold as. I hope you enjoyed

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Speaker 1: this chat with Emma. Grab a new book. It is

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Speaker 1: called You Are More Than What You Eat.

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Speaker 2: It is out now.

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Speaker 1: And also I will leave a link to Emma's last

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Speaker 1: chat on healthy Ish where we discussed ozenpic. If you

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Speaker 1: did enjoy this one, though, tell us rate and review

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Speaker 1: this episode, or you can subscribe to our other sister podcast,

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Speaker 1: Extra healthy Ish Anything Else. Head to body and soold

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Speaker 1: dot com dot you follow us on socials grob Our

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Speaker 1: print edition which is out in your local Sunday paper,

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Speaker 1: and until tomorrow, it's still healthy Ish