WEBVTT - How Trump's mass deportations targeted men with tattoos

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<v Speaker 1>And first of all, I want to thank El Salvador

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<v Speaker 1>and their president for their partnership with the United States

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<v Speaker 1>of America to bring our terrorists here and to incarcerate them.

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<v Speaker 2>And it looks like a scene from a very different

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<v Speaker 2>period of history. US Secretary of Homeland Security Christine Noam

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<v Speaker 2>standing in front of a prison pen filled with gaunt,

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<v Speaker 2>shirtless men, their head shaved, staring silently at the cameras.

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<v Speaker 1>First of all, do not come to our country illegally.

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<v Speaker 1>You will be removed and you will be prosecuted.

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<v Speaker 2>But the footage is from Ol Salvador, where the US

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<v Speaker 2>government has whisked away over two hundred Venezuelan migrants to

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<v Speaker 2>be held in a notorious prison. It's just one of

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<v Speaker 2>the surreal propaganda post that Trump administration has put out,

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<v Speaker 2>bragging about imprisoning men they deemed murderous gang affiliated terrorists.

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<v Speaker 2>But looking at these images, one woman saw not a

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<v Speaker 2>terrorist but her husband.

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<v Speaker 3>And she recognizes a tattoo on his neck of a hummingbird,

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<v Speaker 3>and she said, he got it because it signolizes kind

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<v Speaker 3>of good vibes energy. So she recognized that and she

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<v Speaker 3>was like, that's my husband.

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<v Speaker 2>Another person who viewed the footage is reported Noel Leonard,

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<v Speaker 2>who said at the fond who was taken and why?

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<v Speaker 3>So the way that we want to go about finding

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<v Speaker 3>this is it's quite bleak in a lot of ways.

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<v Speaker 3>In my colleague Isabella and I were on Facebook and TikTok,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, googling things like who's tcl Salvador or Venezuela,

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<v Speaker 3>like justice El Salvador, and you would see these videos

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<v Speaker 3>from families that are heartbreaking, saying please, we're looking for

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<v Speaker 3>a proof of life. We're looking for them to be released.

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<v Speaker 2>Yea for Ela se.

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<v Speaker 3>Kecia, terrorista's criminalist. But yeah, I mean it was just

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<v Speaker 3>searching kind of these this prize for help that exists

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<v Speaker 3>on social media almost almost entirely in Spanish.

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<v Speaker 2>From Schwartz Media on Daniel James. This is seven a m. Today.

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<v Speaker 2>Noel Leonard, a reporter at Mother Jones on the people

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<v Speaker 2>in America, who is disappearing and what the spectacle deportations

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<v Speaker 2>says about where America is headed. It's Monday, April seventh. Noah,

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<v Speaker 2>you've been trying to find out about that he's main

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<v Speaker 2>living in America who was suddenly deported to El Salvador.

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<v Speaker 2>So to start with Can you tell me a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit about Niri Alvarado Borjes.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, absolutely so. Alvarado Borhez is someone who I spoke

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<v Speaker 3>to her for a story that my colleague Isabella and

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<v Speaker 3>Diaz and I were doing. He's twenty five years old.

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<v Speaker 3>He just turned twenty five. He's from a kind of

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<v Speaker 3>more rural part of Venezuela and came to the United

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<v Speaker 3>States seeking asylum, also looking for economic opportunity. Obviously, Venezuela's

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<v Speaker 3>economy has suffered one of the worst collapses in modern history.

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<v Speaker 3>And at the time he's picked up as he's working

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<v Speaker 3>at a bakery. His boss, who I interviewed that he

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<v Speaker 3>was working basically seven seven every day, was an extremely

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<v Speaker 3>hard worker and just kind of a great guy. And

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<v Speaker 3>then on February fourth, he gets picked up by ICE

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<v Speaker 3>or Immigration Enforcement Agency. They come out right in front

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<v Speaker 3>of his apartment looking for him by name, and then

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<v Speaker 3>they bring him into the ICE kind of office and say, hey,

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<v Speaker 3>you're here because we're picking up people with tattoos. We're

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<v Speaker 3>interrogating people with tattoos who are Venezuelan looking to see

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<v Speaker 3>if they belong to this gang that has become a

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<v Speaker 3>bigger news item recently in the US because of the

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<v Speaker 3>Trump administration called trend de Aragua.

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<v Speaker 2>So like the tiny asked to see his tattooes to

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<v Speaker 2>check whether he's affiliated with a gang. What does Alvarado do.

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<v Speaker 3>What he showed them was an autism awareness tattoo with

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<v Speaker 3>the name of his brother, a fifteen year old with autism.

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<v Speaker 3>That's on his leg. And then he has two other tattoos.

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<v Speaker 3>One is in English it says brother again about his brother,

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<v Speaker 3>and the other says familia family. What is so strange

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<v Speaker 3>about this case is that the ICE agent said, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>basically you're clean. We know you're not in a gang.

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<v Speaker 3>That's kind of absurd here. But despite all that, he

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<v Speaker 3>a little over a month later ends up being sent

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<v Speaker 3>to El Salvador, accused of being theoretically a gang member.

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<v Speaker 3>And he is there and no one in his family

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<v Speaker 3>has spoken to him.

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<v Speaker 2>Since when you were speaking to these families, was there

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<v Speaker 2>any evidence that the people in their family that were

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<v Speaker 2>being sent to El Salvador were actually gang members?

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<v Speaker 3>Nothing that I saw that, you know, nothing that would

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<v Speaker 3>really hold up in a court. And what was striking

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<v Speaker 3>is we spoke, you know, ten families, All ten said

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<v Speaker 3>their relatives had tattoos, and that's why they believed that

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<v Speaker 3>their relatives had been picked up.

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<v Speaker 2>And so can you tell me a little bit about

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<v Speaker 2>the process of getting these men to El Salvador. Were

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<v Speaker 2>they told where they were going, while they were going there,

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<v Speaker 2>what the process was, what their rights were. Can you

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<v Speaker 2>give us any insight into what, if any process was

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<v Speaker 2>involved in this deportation.

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<v Speaker 3>The short answer is no. And then to explain and

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<v Speaker 3>expand on that, basically you had Venezuelan's calling their family

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<v Speaker 3>members on Friday Friday night, March fourteenth, saying, Okay, we've

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<v Speaker 3>been told we're going to be sent to Venezuela and

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<v Speaker 3>there as far as we know. While they're on that

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<v Speaker 3>plane in the air, they believe they're going to Venezuela,

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<v Speaker 3>and it may only be when they land and basically

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<v Speaker 3>walk out of the plane and they're in chains, and

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<v Speaker 3>then they see basically the Salvador and military and police

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<v Speaker 3>apparatus in masks kind of waiting for them, and they're

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<v Speaker 3>then kind of frog marched off the plane and onto

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<v Speaker 3>buses and into this prison. But most of these people

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<v Speaker 3>had open immigration cases, meaning like they were scheduled to

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<v Speaker 3>be in court tomorrow or last week, and you know

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<v Speaker 3>they in many cases people we spoke to, like the

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<v Speaker 3>judge would say, hey, where's the guy, and the government's

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<v Speaker 3>own attorney would say, you know, we're not sure, and

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<v Speaker 3>then the defense attorney would have to say, well, I

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<v Speaker 3>think he might be an L. Salvador and that would

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<v Speaker 3>kind of be the end of the case because the

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<v Speaker 3>judge no longer has jurisdiction.

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<v Speaker 2>And has anyone heard from them since has anyone actually

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<v Speaker 2>spoken with them.

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<v Speaker 3>Not that I'm aware of. They have no way to

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<v Speaker 3>contact these family members. They don't know when they're going

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<v Speaker 3>to get out, are they ever going to get out?

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<v Speaker 3>And so it's just every day is torture.

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<v Speaker 2>After the break the message the Trump administration wants to

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<v Speaker 2>send all of us.

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<v Speaker 4>Hi Ruby Jones.

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<v Speaker 2>Noah, can you tell me about the prison where these

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<v Speaker 2>men have been sent? What do we know about this place?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so this is known as one of the world's

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<v Speaker 3>most infamous prisons. It was built only a few years

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<v Speaker 3>ago as part of President Bukelly's state of Exception, essentially

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<v Speaker 3>martial law, and it was theoretically built a whold kind

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<v Speaker 3>of the worst of the worst MS thirteen gang members,

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<v Speaker 3>the people who had made El Salvador into the one

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<v Speaker 3>of the world's most brutal and violent countries. It's called

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<v Speaker 3>the Terrorism Confinement Center in English, and it is a

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<v Speaker 3>very extreme environment. It is known for having horrendous conditions.

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<v Speaker 3>Prisoners spend about twenty three and a half hours a

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<v Speaker 3>day and they're basically barracks. I think it's about eighty

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<v Speaker 3>people per unit, and they live in bunks that are

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<v Speaker 3>stacked four high, with no mattresses, no calls to family.

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<v Speaker 3>It's even a stretch to call it a prison. I

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<v Speaker 3>think it's nothing like what people think of a prison,

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<v Speaker 3>and a lot of the images, frankly, are reminiscent of

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<v Speaker 3>what you solve concentration camps in the twentieth century.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, can you explain why the Venezuelan community is being

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<v Speaker 2>single outlocked these Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>So during the Biden administration, Venezuelans were the largest group

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<v Speaker 3>of migrants coming to the United States. It really was

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<v Speaker 3>off scale and records any numbers in the hundreds of

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<v Speaker 3>thousands each year, And that was, I was totally unprecedented.

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<v Speaker 3>Even though Venezuela's economy had been, you know, in a

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<v Speaker 3>terrible position for many years, it didn't translate to that

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<v Speaker 3>kind of massive numbers at the borders. Many of those

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<v Speaker 3>people ended up being bussed all around the United States,

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<v Speaker 3>including to where I live in New York City, by

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<v Speaker 3>the tens of thousands, and so it became this kind

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<v Speaker 3>of big it's a big national issue. But the Trump

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<v Speaker 3>administration now kind of needs, I think, to a villain

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<v Speaker 3>here or a boogeyman to kind of target here and

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<v Speaker 3>trend there. A Agua, this gang which I most Americans

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<v Speaker 3>still probably have never heard of or certainly have never

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<v Speaker 3>heard of one year ago, has become that as.

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<v Speaker 5>We speak, heavily on im Venezuela and gangs or taking

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<v Speaker 5>over entire apartment buildings and apartment complexes in Aurora, Colorado,

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<v Speaker 5>terrorizing your residence and taking over the old days. You

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<v Speaker 5>have to pay to buy that bill.

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<v Speaker 3>So the Trump administration declared trend Aragua foreign terrorist organization.

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<v Speaker 3>And for people who don't live in the United States,

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<v Speaker 3>like there are probably some issues with trend are Agua.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sure there are some crimes committed by people affiliated

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<v Speaker 3>with it, but it's not a major gang. It's not

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<v Speaker 3>MS thirteen. Also, it's importantly it's not known for tattoos

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<v Speaker 3>being an identifying mark for its members, despite that being

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<v Speaker 3>one of the main things that Trump administration used. And

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<v Speaker 3>the second thing they did, which is probably more important

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<v Speaker 3>here is for only for the fourth time in the

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<v Speaker 3>entirety of American history, they invoked a seventeen ninety eight

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<v Speaker 3>wall called the Alien Enemies Act, and that is only

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<v Speaker 3>supposed to be used when America's in times of war

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<v Speaker 3>or invasion. So this has not been used since we

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<v Speaker 3>were using it basically to round up potential Nazis in

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<v Speaker 3>at the height of World War Two, and this case,

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<v Speaker 3>obviously we're not at war with then as well, of

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<v Speaker 3>course we're not, so they have to say we're under

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<v Speaker 3>invasion by this gang, and it's patently absurd.

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<v Speaker 2>And so the Trump administration's going into sort of full

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<v Speaker 2>propaganda mode when it comes to exaggerating the reasons as

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<v Speaker 2>to wall they're being sent. What is the administration getting

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<v Speaker 2>out of.

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<v Speaker 3>That I think they're getting I would say two things

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<v Speaker 3>that immediately come to mind to me. One you could

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<v Speaker 3>argue there's putting pressure on Venezuela to resume taking deportation flights,

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<v Speaker 3>so that would be one, And the second is the

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<v Speaker 3>spectacle of it. This facility is.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the tools in our toolkit that we will

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<v Speaker 1>use if you commit crimes against the American people.

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<v Speaker 3>And you're right, I'm shocked there wasn't a prison break, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>because that's like a riot right there. You know, I'm

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<v Speaker 3>surprised if they could walk Tom Holman through that jail

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<v Speaker 3>and you think he's hot at that point.

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<v Speaker 5>But Christy, my god.

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<v Speaker 2>So this you know what I love about that visit.

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<v Speaker 5>She stood in front of criminals in their environment, because

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<v Speaker 5>usually Democrats when they want you to see criminals.

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<v Speaker 3>Part of it here is, you know, there are only

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<v Speaker 3>so many ICE agents in the United States, and there

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<v Speaker 3>are twelve million or so undocumented immigrants in the United States.

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<v Speaker 3>They don't have the capacity to arrest even a large

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<v Speaker 3>percentage of those people. And what they're relying on and

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<v Speaker 3>hoping for is is self deportation essentially, So in some sense,

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<v Speaker 3>the fact that there are innocent people, clearly innocent people

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<v Speaker 3>in this prison now has it benefit to them because

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<v Speaker 3>it is horrifying. It makes people, even people who are

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<v Speaker 3>following all the rules here, who have opened court cases,

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<v Speaker 3>feel that they could be next and maybe then they

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<v Speaker 3>all get on a plane and go back home, which

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<v Speaker 3>is what the Trump administration wants them to do.

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<v Speaker 2>And what's been the general reaction to these deportations and

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<v Speaker 2>people being picked up off the streets. Is this something

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<v Speaker 2>that people that are talking about.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, initially, the Trump administration and I did a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of stories on the attitudes of Latino voters before the election,

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<v Speaker 3>and they were really sure. They said, well, I'm all

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<v Speaker 3>four criminals being deported so and that's what Trump says

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<v Speaker 3>he's going to do, so it doesn't bother me. And

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<v Speaker 3>I think, initially, and if you look at the polling

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<v Speaker 3>right now, still Trump's kind of immigration approval is still favorable.

0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:41.880
<v Speaker 3>I think it was about fifty eight forty two approve

0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:44.840
<v Speaker 3>of his overall deportation efforts. But if you look at

0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:48.920
<v Speaker 3>this El Salvador Venezuela operation that pulls quite negatively. So

0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:51.720
<v Speaker 3>I think it's starting to shift as people start to realize,

0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.840
<v Speaker 3>you know, oh, this is not just all hardened criminals

0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:56.640
<v Speaker 3>and gang members who are being sent there.

0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:02.199
<v Speaker 2>Could this approach affect other movements within American society, locked

0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.080
<v Speaker 2>their pro Palestinian movement for instance.

0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:06.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean I think that is. You know, you

0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:10.040
<v Speaker 3>have to see these as length you're having. For example,

0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:12.439
<v Speaker 3>someone like Mark mu Khalil, who's a Green card holder

0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:15.320
<v Speaker 3>married to an American citizen, whose wife is pregnant eight

0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:18.160
<v Speaker 3>months pregnant at the time of the arrest, being arrested

0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:21.800
<v Speaker 3>at is Columbia University student housing apartment and sent to

0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:25.360
<v Speaker 3>an immigration detention center in Louisiana. I used to report

0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:27.680
<v Speaker 3>on the detention center during the first Trump administration, the

0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:31.079
<v Speaker 3>idea that a Green card holder is now there because

0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:33.480
<v Speaker 3>of political speech and he's not alone. You know, they

0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:37.200
<v Speaker 3>were going after a Columbia University juniorlea, which is one

0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.080
<v Speaker 3>of our most elite universities in Ivy League school. She

0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.319
<v Speaker 3>had come to the United States when she was seven

0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.319
<v Speaker 3>years old. And that's all just because of pretty milk

0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.960
<v Speaker 3>toast pro Palestine activism.

0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.040
<v Speaker 2>Right, So, at the end of the day, Trump is

0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.160
<v Speaker 2>doing what he said he do. The polms indicate that

0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:59.600
<v Speaker 2>what he is doing is popular. But when it comes

0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:02.040
<v Speaker 2>to these man, what happens to them? Now? What does

0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:03.079
<v Speaker 2>their future look? Luck?

0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:07.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it is very unclear. There's a very contentious and

0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.400
<v Speaker 3>high drama court case right now having the United States.

0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:13.280
<v Speaker 3>You know, the judge would order that these jets be

0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:15.559
<v Speaker 3>turned around while they're in the AIRHL salvad Or in

0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:20.080
<v Speaker 3>the Trump administration extremely rare move basically ignored that court order,

0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:24.920
<v Speaker 3>so that court case is continuing to heat up. It's

0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:27.400
<v Speaker 3>bleak to say, but the best possibility would be that

0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.600
<v Speaker 3>they are let out and allowed to be deported to Venezuela.

0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:32.679
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I think the odds of them returning to

0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:34.480
<v Speaker 3>the United States are quite slim. I don't want to

0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.240
<v Speaker 3>say it's impossible, but if you're a family member who

0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:39.560
<v Speaker 3>has a son or a husband there, you have no

0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:42.080
<v Speaker 3>idea not only when you will see your loved one,

0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:44.760
<v Speaker 3>but when you might even ever be able to know

0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:45.480
<v Speaker 3>that they're alive.

0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.800
<v Speaker 2>Now, look, thanks so much for your reporting and thanks

0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:51.960
<v Speaker 2>so much for you Tom.

0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:53.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, no, thank you for having me on.

0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:09.400
<v Speaker 2>Also in the years today, Prime Minister Anthony Albernezi has

0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:12.080
<v Speaker 2>pledged two point three billion dollars to be spent on

0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:16.400
<v Speaker 2>subsidizing home batteries should his government be re elected. Labour

0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:19.280
<v Speaker 2>release data showing that while one in three Australian households

0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:22.160
<v Speaker 2>have solar panels, only one in forty have a battery.

0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.600
<v Speaker 2>Batteries can push household bills down and reduce reliance on

0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:27.800
<v Speaker 2>the grid. The new plan will make the cost of

0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:31.040
<v Speaker 2>installing a new home battery thirty percent cheaper and is

0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:34.200
<v Speaker 2>designed to find one million more units by twenty thirty

0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:37.120
<v Speaker 2>and Peter Darton has promised to cut the number of

0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:41.040
<v Speaker 2>international students in Australia by eighty thousand per year if elected.

0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.840
<v Speaker 2>The opposition leader has argued that international students are contributing

0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:48.440
<v Speaker 2>to the housing crisis. The policy would allow thirty thousand

0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:53.400
<v Speaker 2>fewer foreign students than Labour's plan announced last year. I'm

0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:56.360
<v Speaker 2>Daniel James. This is seven am. Thanks for listening.

0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:02.040
<v Speaker 3>You have