Speaker 1: Good evening tonight.
Speaker 2: The Prime Minister and his ministers claim they want her
Speaker 2: Must to be destroyed. They claim that Hermas should have
Speaker 2: no role in the future governing of Gaza. Yet how
Speaker 2: can we actually believe them when they continue to demand
Speaker 2: that Israel stop its fight against the terror group. The
Speaker 2: terror group that is vowed to attack Israel over and
Speaker 2: over and over again until it is completely annihilated. The
Speaker 2: terror group that's vowed to continue to attack Israel. And
Speaker 2: it's a warning we should believe them on given they
Speaker 2: slaughtered one two hundred Jews in cold blood on October seven,
Speaker 2: shooting them, raping them and mutilating their bodies and doing
Speaker 2: it all with glee, wringing their families back home to
Speaker 2: celebrate and boast. Yet instead of support Israel's war against
Speaker 2: this barbaric terror group, and instead of being realistic about
Speaker 2: it and knowing that war does mean some civilian casualties.
Speaker 2: That's the reality of every war Australia has been involved in. Well,
Speaker 2: the Albanezi government demands that Israel give up its fight
Speaker 2: against Hermas, just pack up and go home. Our embarrassment
Speaker 2: of a foreign minister, Penny Wong used her opening remarks
Speaker 2: and Senate estimates to call on Israel to stop its
Speaker 2: military campaign.
Speaker 3: She demanded an immediate cease fire.
Speaker 4: Have a look for death and destruction in Rapha is horrific.
Speaker 4: This human suffering is unacceptable. This cannot continue.
Speaker 2: It's a call the Foreign Minister has made before, demanding
Speaker 2: Israel call off its war against Humus and instead have
Speaker 2: what she describes as a humanitarian ceasefire Australia.
Speaker 4: She is the grave concerns that I've articulated previously about
Speaker 4: the dire humanitarian situation in Gaza. Humanitarians, human suffering is
Speaker 4: widespread and it is unacceptable.
Speaker 2: No question, civilian casualties are tragic, and every civilian death matters.
Speaker 2: But Penny Wong doesn't acknowledge that it's Harmas, not Israel,
Speaker 2: responsible for the civilian deaths. Israeli soldiers begged civilians to evacuate.
Speaker 1: From Gaza from Rafa, they.
Speaker 2: Distributed leaflets in Arabic warning them to leave. Israeli politician
Speaker 2: Sharon Haskell told us just last night that they have
Speaker 2: evidence that Hamas actually shot some civilians who.
Speaker 1: Tried to leave.
Speaker 5: Hamas in many cases is actually threatening them and blocking
Speaker 5: as well. I mean, we've seen them in many occasions,
Speaker 5: shooting with snipers, people who are trying to flee from
Speaker 5: the war area, and the.
Speaker 2: Esteemed Richard Kemp told us last week just how the
Speaker 2: civilian death toll in Gaza actually compares with other wars.
Speaker 6: If you compare the zero point eight to one ratio
Speaker 6: that Israel has achieved, if you look at Afghanistan in Iraq.
Speaker 6: In Afghanistan the ratio was five to one, five civilians
Speaker 6: for every terrorist killed. In Iraq, three civilians for every
Speaker 6: terrorist killed. That's by US forces, a similar level probably
Speaker 6: from British forces as well, but hugely worse. I mean,
Speaker 6: those countries did their best to minimize civilian coachs as well.
Speaker 6: The Israelis have achieved a great deal better than that.
Speaker 2: And by the way, Israel claims today that it was
Speaker 2: Hamas weapons that caused dozens of Palestinian deaths most likely,
Speaker 2: they say, and not Israel's own strikes. The Times of
Speaker 2: Israel reports and I quote is Rael Defense forces said
Speaker 2: Tuesday that a hidden store of weapons may have been
Speaker 2: the actual cause of a deadly blaze in southern gazas Rafa,
Speaker 2: and that an air strike that targeted an adjacent area
Speaker 2: had used small munitions that would not ignite such a
Speaker 2: fire on their own. The Times of Israel reports that
Speaker 2: the military suspects that the munitions or some other combustible
Speaker 2: substance it was unaware of, caused a secondary explosion and
Speaker 2: a fire to spread in a complex housing displaced Gazans
Speaker 2: in Rafa. They say it killed dozens of Palestinian civilians.
Speaker 2: Following an air strike targeting two top Hermus terrorists in
Speaker 2: the area. So Israel also said that before their strike
Speaker 2: on a Harmusk compound, they carried out steps to make
Speaker 2: sure that there were no women or children in the
Speaker 2: Harmas compound. The Pennywog ignores all of this, ignores the
Speaker 2: reality of war, the horrible reality of war, and ignores
Speaker 2: the necessity of eliminating Hamas and the difficulties that Israel
Speaker 2: faces in doing it.
Speaker 1: But do it they must.
Speaker 2: Given Pennywong's comments today, it is surprising that Anthony Albanezi
Speaker 2: claims to be a friend of Israel.
Speaker 3: He still claims in an interview with.
Speaker 2: Bomber Treasurer Josh Friedenberg in the documentary Last Night We
Speaker 2: saw that Albanezi claimed that he supports the state of Israel.
Speaker 7: And what we're seeing is an intellectual engagement or discourse.
Speaker 7: What we're seeing is a promotion of simplistic slogans and
Speaker 7: in some cases, a promotion of hate. Now I support
Speaker 7: the state of Israel. I also support a two state solution.
Speaker 2: We Labor can't have it both ways when it comes
Speaker 2: to their so called support for.
Speaker 1: The State of Israel.
Speaker 2: Either Australia stands by its decision that recognizes that Hermas
Speaker 2: must be removed from power, or.
Speaker 1: It supports a ceasefire. It can't support both.
Speaker 2: How does Penny Wog and Anthony Alberinezi actually want a
Speaker 2: must to be removed from governing in Gaza fairy dust?
Speaker 2: Pennywong's comments remind us that Labour is a fair weather
Speaker 2: friend of Israel, at least the federal government, not Chris
Speaker 2: Min's in New South Wales. Labor is a fair weather
Speaker 2: friend of Israel. And they say they claim to condemn
Speaker 2: anti Semitism and yet their comments contribute to it. And
Speaker 2: anti Semitism is continuing to explode in our streets and
Speaker 2: in our schools, and of course at our prestigious universities
Speaker 2: where students talk about chasing Zionists off campus and they
Speaker 2: shout into fighter Revolution, thank you. Now you think Sidior
Speaker 2: University's Vice Chancellor Mark Scott would be trying to deal
Speaker 2: with those clearly anti Semitic chants, but instead the former
Speaker 2: ABC boss is now rewarding these protesters for their hate
Speaker 2: by going so far as to include them in the
Speaker 2: university's policies, inviting them to review their defense and security
Speaker 2: research ties. And this means that any ties with Israel
Speaker 2: could be cut. This is the same university that claimed
Speaker 2: chance of interfada were not hate speech. Now the Coalition
Speaker 2: Sarah Henderson spoke with my colleague James McPherson just a
Speaker 2: short while ago.
Speaker 3: And she condemned this in no uncertain terms.
Speaker 2: This is a major problem of university leadership and political leadership.
Speaker 2: You have to ask where the Federal Education Minister Jason
Speaker 2: Clay is on this, because it does amount to an
Speaker 2: effective boycott of Israel by the University of Sydney.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: In Josh Fridenberg's documentary Last Night, the former PM John
Speaker 2: Howard makes this point about Labour's responsibility for the crisis
Speaker 2: that we're in.
Speaker 8: I believe that if from the beginning the horrible events
Speaker 8: the seventh of October had been denounced in unequivocal terms,
Speaker 8: no if, but babies, no equivalents, no they From the
Speaker 8: very beginning, you would not have had quite these outbreaks.
Speaker 2: What would you give to have John Howard or even
Speaker 2: Julia Gillard or any other leader who's able to find
Speaker 2: the courage and strength to stand up to those filled
Speaker 2: with hate as our prime minister right now, instead of
Speaker 2: the leaders that we do have who are capitulating to
Speaker 2: the terrorists and allowing anti.
Speaker 1: Semitism to fester.
Speaker 2: Now, also on the show tonight, the Albaneze government admits
Speaker 2: there are major failings in its immigration policy, a mistake
Speaker 2: that has seen murderers and rapists roam free. This is
Speaker 2: a major political issue and I'm going to talk about
Speaker 2: it throughout the show. We're also going to cross live
Speaker 2: to Washington for the latest from Donald Trump's hush money trial.
Speaker 2: But first let's bring in now tonight's panel, former Victorian
Speaker 2: Liberal Party president Michael Kroger and former Labor MP Michael Danby.
Speaker 2: Welcome to you both. Michael Kroger, starting with you, what
Speaker 2: do you make of Pennywang's demand that Israel leave Gayza
Speaker 2: right now, give up the fight against the terrorists, or
Speaker 2: who are hell bent on destroying every single Jew and
Speaker 2: wiping out Israel.
Speaker 9: Well, it's almost bizarre. So what if you expect to happen.
Speaker 9: If that happened, if Israel laid down his weapons and
Speaker 9: left Gaza, now Hamas would reassert control, retake over Gaza,
Speaker 9: steal more money from the international community, rebuild their stock
Speaker 9: of arms, probably then take steps to remove Martmuda bas
Speaker 9: in the disputed territories because he's sick. They're sick of
Speaker 9: the Palestinian authority, strengthen their operations in Qatar and Turkey,
Speaker 9: and away they'd go again, and Israel would be demonstrably
Speaker 9: less safe than it was previously. So what a totally
Speaker 9: bizarre comment from the Foreign minister. And as for these
Speaker 9: calls from a Palestinian state, Now Hamas would run the
Speaker 9: Palestinian state, I mean they would have elections. Presumably it
Speaker 9: would be run by Yaa Sinwa. He would be the
Speaker 9: head of head of the government of the state which
Speaker 9: coexisted right next to the state of Israel. So I
Speaker 9: don't know what Penny Wong's thinking. Arguably she's done some
Speaker 9: good work in the Pacific Islands with our neighbors there,
Speaker 9: but on this issue she has been bizarre and extreme.
Speaker 9: And that's what you get when you give the socialist
Speaker 9: left portfolios of prime minister, foreign Minister and immigration minister.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right, Michael Downby. I mean this is your
Speaker 2: odd party. You were a federal labor MP. How different
Speaker 2: is the party that you're seeing now their positions on
Speaker 2: foreign policy with the governments that you were part of,
Speaker 2: the labor governments that you were part of.
Speaker 10: Utterly different. It's almost sad to see it. I mean,
Speaker 10: Albo is relatively moderate compared to the rest of the
Speaker 10: socialist left. The penny Wong said a few days after
Speaker 10: October seventh that Israel had a right to defend itself.
Speaker 10: It had a right to defend itself until it did so.
Speaker 10: They're doing exactly what the Americans asked. They've moved nearly
Speaker 10: a million people into the humanitarian zone. It's not a
Speaker 10: full out attack on Rapha. It's targeted attacks by small
Speaker 10: elite groups. And still you can't satisfy these people. So
Speaker 10: the problem for the Israelis is that international opinion, led
Speaker 10: by the penny Wongs of this world, the Spanish Prime minister, etc.
Speaker 10: Are severely constraining their ability to fight and win. But
Speaker 10: I suppose that's the truth of Zionism Shari that the
Speaker 10: Jews are not reliant on the goodwill of any people.
Speaker 10: They've had very bad experience over the decades, over the
Speaker 10: centuries of being at the mercy of.
Speaker 1: The merciless true True.
Speaker 2: Now turning to federal politics, there's been an extraordinary admission
Speaker 2: of fault from Labor today.
Speaker 3: This failing of THEIRS led to.
Speaker 2: Dozens of criminals, including murderers and rapists who are not
Speaker 2: Australian citizens.
Speaker 1: It meant that they were allowed to stay in the country.
Speaker 2: Now, the Prime Minister today confirmed in question Time that
Speaker 2: Andrew Giles would now order a revised directive that will
Speaker 2: replace the disastrous Direction ninety nine Have a look.
Speaker 11: As the Minister has said, he'll be reviewing the recent
Speaker 11: AT decisions and where necessary and appropriate, de'll over ruled them.
Speaker 11: The Parliament yesterday's past legislation abolishing the raw to AAT
Speaker 11: and replacing it with a new Administry of Review Tribunal
Speaker 11: and the only effective way of ensuring that Tribunal members
Speaker 11: are making better decisions is to issue a new revised direction,
Speaker 11: which the Minister will be doing. The new directive will
Speaker 11: ensure that the protection the committee out ways any.
Speaker 2: Last Michael Kraigan, this is a rare and quiet, major
Speaker 2: admission that their immigration policy has been wrong.
Speaker 9: I think I said to your last week Charlott, if
Speaker 9: they would have to rewrite this directive, and that's exactly
Speaker 9: what they're doing. I'll tell you what's happened here. Giles
Speaker 9: has gone and had a meeting with Albanzi as sure
Speaker 9: as anything. All right, he's gone and had a meeting
Speaker 9: with Albanesi, just the two of them, And Giles has said, Trim,
Speaker 9: if you sack me, I'm going to come out and
Speaker 9: tell everybody that you were the one that wanted this
Speaker 9: direction ninety nine published because of your meeting with Jasida
Speaker 9: A Durn She got you to agree to it. You
Speaker 9: told me to write this directive. I wrote the directive.
Speaker 9: This is what's happened. This is your fault, Prime Minister,
Speaker 9: not my fault. As minister. I'm copying all the blame.
Speaker 9: So you come out on the front foot and defend
Speaker 9: what we've done. So we're going to change it. But
Speaker 9: if you sacked me, mate, I'll unload on you. I'll
Speaker 9: tell you that's exactly what's happened, which is why Albow now,
Speaker 9: having shifted the blame on this and not wanted to
Speaker 9: talk about it for weeks, has for the first time
Speaker 9: got up in the Parliament now and taken a policy
Speaker 9: lead on changing a policy direction because Giles has put
Speaker 9: the war on him. That's exactly what's happened behind the
Speaker 9: scenes as far as I can.
Speaker 2: Read it, and it's a big win politically for the coalition,
Speaker 2: no question. Michael Downby, Can you tell us a bit
Speaker 2: about what's going on here behind the scenes. You know,
Speaker 2: we all talk about one of the reasons and we
Speaker 2: keep saying it on the show that Albanezy hasn't sacked
Speaker 2: Andrew Giles is because they're so close factionally.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a bit about this.
Speaker 10: I had a famous professor who once said things are
Speaker 10: what they appear to be. So the socialist left look
Speaker 10: after each other. Albow is a socialist left Prime ministry
Speaker 10: is a bit more mainstream than the rest of them.
Speaker 10: Giles is his factional heavyweight in Victoria, and they rely
Speaker 10: on each other. And when you make Australian foreign policy
Speaker 10: or in migration policy dependent upon appeasing the ideology of
Speaker 10: the socialist left in New Zealand, you end up with
Speaker 10: this disaster where rapists and murderers and elderly grandmothers in
Speaker 10: West Australia are bashed. Albough, you should get on a
Speaker 10: plane and drag that Charles by the scruff of his
Speaker 10: neck and go over there and apologize to that poor
Speaker 10: woman who was so badly treated by that criminal.
Speaker 2: Indeed, now the ABC has publicly demonished its star political
Speaker 2: correspondent Laura Tingle for her outburst over the weekend. The
Speaker 2: ABC's news director, Justin Stevens, released a statement saying her
Speaker 2: comments lacked the context, balance and supporting information of her
Speaker 2: work for the ABC and would not have met the
Speaker 2: ABC's editorial standards.
Speaker 1: Now, this, of.
Speaker 2: Course comes after Laura Tingle herself released a statement saying
Speaker 2: that her were claiming that her comments were taken out
Speaker 2: of context and lacked detail. Michael Craig, whenever anything is
Speaker 2: published about something that an individual doesn't like, they always
Speaker 2: claim it was taken out of context. I mean, we
Speaker 2: heard her words, the very audio of her words.
Speaker 1: She's clearly this.
Speaker 2: Is not the first time she has lacked impartiality, yet
Speaker 2: she's meant to be their political correspondent.
Speaker 9: Laura should step down for goodness, sake. I mean it's
Speaker 9: she's embarrassed the ABC, she's embarrassed herself and for the
Speaker 9: lead political reporter in this country to have published what
Speaker 9: she said on the weekend. You know, why is it
Speaker 9: that everyone at the ABC seems to be hard left?
Speaker 9: Since we left wing always apologizing for tweets and is
Speaker 9: there anyone in the right wing of the ABC's had
Speaker 9: to apologize. No, they happen to have to apologize because
Speaker 9: they aren't in is we know so don't even.
Speaker 3: Have anyone in the center. Will they have anyone in
Speaker 3: the center?
Speaker 1: Not many.
Speaker 9: The only thing, the only thing I'd say in defense
Speaker 9: of Laura was if she was talking about the Jewish hatred,
Speaker 9: the underlying racism that's always been there in Australia, I
Speaker 9: give her a tick for that. If that's what she
Speaker 9: was talking about. I fear that wasn't what she was
Speaker 9: talking about. I fear what she was talking about was
Speaker 9: we're all racist because we don't like Aboriginals and First
Speaker 9: Nations peoples, blah blah blah. We're all racist because we
Speaker 9: didn't vote for the Voice. I suspect that's probably what
Speaker 9: she meant. But you can't have the head of effectively
Speaker 9: the lead political reporter for the ABC across the country,
Speaker 9: having attacked Peter Dutton in the way she did, having
Speaker 9: made this comment about Australians are all racists out there?
Speaker 9: Or you blue collar people out there who voted against
Speaker 9: the Voice, you're all racists? I mean, is this what
Speaker 9: the ABC thinks? This person was elected to the board
Speaker 9: by the ABC staff. They know her views, so she
Speaker 9: reflects the views of the staff. Is this woman the
Speaker 9: ABC's out of control?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Now, just before we go in, while we're talking about
Speaker 2: media network scandals are The Australian newspaper reports today that
Speaker 2: nine chief executive Mike Sneezebee's leadership is on shaky ground.
Speaker 2: They write that given the apparent calling of sneeze and
Speaker 2: Costello's professional relationship and the despair of some other board
Speaker 2: members about how the Wick matter has been handled, senior
Speaker 2: insiders say mister Sneezbey's future is now uncertain. Michael Dowanby,
Speaker 2: this is a big scandal that the channel at the
Speaker 2: nine network, initially over sexual harassment allegations. Now it seems
Speaker 2: there is this leadership tension and there are questions about
Speaker 2: whether Mike Sneezebee or Peter Costello will have to go.
Speaker 10: Thank heavens, there's an alternative network like Sky and Shari
Speaker 10: to expose all of this kind of stuff. Thank heavens
Speaker 10: we've got gutsy Sophie Ellsworth going behind enemy lines to
Speaker 10: record what people are saying when they don't think other
Speaker 10: people are listening to them. And thank heavens for Sky
Speaker 10: that you did that program on anti Semitism, which you're
Speaker 10: that you interviewed the chairman of not the chairman but
Speaker 10: a board member of the ABC gersh who see this
Speaker 10: should have been broadcast in the last seven months in
Speaker 10: Australia on the text Bayer funded network. So nine is bad,
Speaker 10: but the agency is worse since Sky is good.
Speaker 2: Yep, all right, Michael Kroger, Michael Danby, thank you both
Speaker 2: so much for your time. Now coming up why veteran
Speaker 2: journalist Paul Kelly says Australia is a nation now splitting
Speaker 2: into two cultures, and he'll join me next. Also across
Speaker 2: Live to Washington for the latest on Donald Trump's hush
Speaker 2: money trial.
Speaker 1: Welcome back now.
Speaker 2: As we know, the International Criminal Court has brought its
Speaker 2: credibility into disrepute after it requested arrest warrants for Israeli
Speaker 2: Prime Minister Benjamin Nettan Yahoo and his Defense minister.
Speaker 1: This essentially conflated.
Speaker 2: The democratic government of Israel, defined by its morals and
Speaker 2: how it acts in accordance with international law.
Speaker 1: Well, it equated them with the mus terrorists.
Speaker 2: One journalist who since October seven has been a standout
Speaker 2: in his exceptional columns writing about this issue Israel, anti
Speaker 2: Semitism and just pulling apart the hypocrisy is the Australians
Speaker 2: Editor at Large, Paul Kelly, the most experienced political journalist
Speaker 2: in our country. Paul, I'm delighted to have you join
Speaker 2: me once again. Thank you very much for your time.
Speaker 2: It's always an honor to have you here. Why do
Speaker 2: you think the International Criminal Court got it so badly
Speaker 2: wrong in its decision.
Speaker 12: I think there's been a lack of integrity, a lack
Speaker 12: of credibility, and a sense of bias against Israel long
Speaker 12: displayed from this court. And as far as Australia is concerned,
Speaker 12: if the prosecutor's request to issue these arrest warrants is given,
Speaker 12: I think Australia should consider very carefully whether it wants
Speaker 12: to remain a member of this court. We know that
Speaker 12: the previous Foreign Minister, Alexander Downer, who is essentially responsible
Speaker 12: for US joining the court, has signaled that as far
Speaker 12: as he's concerned, he thinks we should withdraw if these
Speaker 12: arrest warrants are given. I think John Howard, if they
Speaker 12: are given, will make a very powerful statement. But the
Speaker 12: point about this court is this court, with this decision,
Speaker 12: brings into doubt its own credibility. Australia as a democratic
Speaker 12: sovereign nation is under no commitment to adhere to this
Speaker 12: court if we feel it lacks proper standards. So I
Speaker 12: think there'll be a real test here if these warrants
Speaker 12: are in fact granted.
Speaker 2: What we saw part of its flawed process, which meant
Speaker 2: that it arrived at this decision, is that it reportedly,
Speaker 2: and this is according to very credible reports in The Times,
Speaker 2: it reportedly relied on a panel that was far from impartial.
Speaker 2: It was stacked with ideologues who hate Israel, and they
Speaker 2: relied on advice of doctors that were sympathizes.
Speaker 12: Look, I think there are three essential problems with this
Speaker 12: statement from the prosecutor. The first is what it means
Speaker 12: is that leaders of democratic nations that are attacked that
Speaker 12: seek to defend themselves in a war campaign and eliminate
Speaker 12: their aggressor are likely to be charged with war crimes.
Speaker 12: But if this court had been around in nineteen forty
Speaker 12: four or nineteen forty five, then I think Winston Churchill,
Speaker 12: Franklin Roosevelt, and Harry Truman would have been up as
Speaker 12: war criminals. Secondly, by linking Hamas with the Israeli leaders,
Speaker 12: essentially you create a sense of equivalents there. This is
Speaker 12: very damaging to Israel. It's linked with a terrorist organization,
Speaker 12: and it elevates Hamas almost to the status of a
Speaker 12: nation state. I think it indicates the flawed nature and
Speaker 12: the bias nature of the culture of the court. And finally,
Speaker 12: the provisions of the Court are that in a last resort,
Speaker 12: it can only intervene in a particular country where the
Speaker 12: judicial system of that country is not working or is nonexistent.
Speaker 12: That does not seem to apply in the case of Israel.
Speaker 12: So for those reasons, and given those arguments, I think
Speaker 12: we've got to look very very suspiciously at the motives
Speaker 12: and the purpose of this prosecutor's decision. And what will
Speaker 12: be fundamental, of course, is what the panel on the
Speaker 12: Court decides about the rest worrants, and not to mention.
Speaker 1: They didn't even visit Israel.
Speaker 2: They didn't even go on the ground like they had
Speaker 2: said they were meant to, so they didn't follow their
Speaker 2: own processes for a thorough investigation. Paul, those were very
Speaker 2: strong remarks, very very well said, what do you make
Speaker 2: of the Albanese government's response to this finding. We saw
Speaker 2: that other parts of the world, many of our international counterparts,
Speaker 2: led by the United States, strongly condemned the ICC decision,
Speaker 2: the ICC ruling, and yet our own leadership in Australia
Speaker 2: couldn't say that if Benjamin Netanya, who came here hypothetically,
Speaker 2: that he wouldn't be arrested.
Speaker 12: Well, they're weak and they're paralyzed. They seem to be spooked,
Speaker 12: and I think the government is spooped about how to
Speaker 12: manage the internal politics of this conflict within this country.
Speaker 12: I mean, the fact of the matter is that we
Speaker 12: have the President of the United States making a powerful
Speaker 12: statement saying this is an outrageous statement from the prosecutor.
Speaker 12: We have the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom criticizing it,
Speaker 12: and we have the Prime Minister of Australia. Can't defend
Speaker 12: it and can't criticize it. He just can't talk about it.
Speaker 12: It's as though he's immobilized. Well, that won't work, because
Speaker 12: at the end of the day, if the court decides
Speaker 12: to issue the warrants, then Australia, as a committed nation
Speaker 12: of the court, will be obliged to arrest the Israeli
Speaker 12: Prime minister if he visits this if he visits this
Speaker 12: country again as he did back in twenty seventeen when
Speaker 12: Malcolm Turnbull was Prime Minister. Now, of course that won't happen.
Speaker 12: I'm quite certain that if the warrant is upheld, no
Speaker 12: Australian government will take that action. But the fact of
Speaker 12: the matter is being committed to the court means that
Speaker 12: we should take that action. Well, how untenable is that?
Speaker 12: How untenable would it be for an Australian government to
Speaker 12: be in a situation where it was obliged to arrest
Speaker 12: the Prime Minister of Israel or the former prime minister
Speaker 12: of Israel should.
Speaker 1: He step forward here? Precisely unbelievable. Just one final question.
Speaker 2: You know you mentioned how the Prime Minister is immobilized
Speaker 2: and he can't seem to utter any strong words on
Speaker 2: this issue and it has been a problem for him
Speaker 2: over the past eight months.
Speaker 1: Do you think this goes to his character?
Speaker 2: Is he just a different type of leader than others
Speaker 2: we've seen in the past, are the prime ministers in
Speaker 2: the past? Or is it on this particular issue that
Speaker 2: he seems to be caught in the politics of it.
Speaker 12: I think this is a particularly difficult moral and political
Speaker 12: issue for the Labor Party. We haven't seen this sort
Speaker 12: of issue are up before at this level on this
Speaker 12: scale for a Labor government. And what's happened, of course
Speaker 12: over the past twenty to twenty five years within the
Speaker 12: Labor Party, particularly the left of the Labor Party, hostility
Speaker 12: to Israel has become virtually an article of faith. Now
Speaker 12: a lot of people weren't aware of that. We're only
Speaker 12: aware of it to a certain extent as a result
Speaker 12: of what's happened with the war. So there's a fundamental
Speaker 12: internal problem for the Labor Party managing its own ranks.
Speaker 12: Given the degree of hostility towards Israel within the party,
Speaker 12: then you've got the related problem of the votes in
Speaker 12: a number of Labor electtions where there is a high
Speaker 12: percentage of Muslim voters and the party and senior members
Speaker 12: of the party are particularly concerned about that. That is
Speaker 12: a political and electoral problem for them. You put those
Speaker 12: two problems together and essentially you've got a government which
Speaker 12: I think has been weak and uncertain and all over
Speaker 12: the place, bending one way, bending the other way over
Speaker 12: the course of the past eight months. It doesn't reflect
Speaker 12: well on the character of the Prime Minister.
Speaker 2: Indeed, indeed doesn't reflect well on the character of Albinezi.
Speaker 1: It certainly doesn't.
Speaker 2: Paul Kelly, thank you so much for being in here
Speaker 2: and for being so strong and articulate in your articles
Speaker 2: in The Australian and here tonight.
Speaker 1: Really appreciate it.
Speaker 12: Thank you, er, thank you.
Speaker 2: Now, after six weeks, twenty two witnesses and a number
Speaker 2: of tordry testimonies, Donald Trump's criminal trial is finally coming
Speaker 2: to a close. Lawyers made their closing arguments. It is
Speaker 2: hush money case. The former president having this to say outside.
Speaker 5: Court, maybe no mistake about it.
Speaker 10: I'm here because itself crooked.
Speaker 13: Joe Baden, the worst president in the history of our country,
Speaker 13: is destroying our country.
Speaker 12: He's destroying our country and he's.
Speaker 14: Also destroying it with the weaponization.
Speaker 15: And this is purely his weaponization.
Speaker 2: All right, let's bring in now the Australians. Washington correspondent
Speaker 2: Adam Crichton. Adam, thank you very much for joining us.
Speaker 2: Now tell us the latest with the trial.
Speaker 16: Good evening, shot. Well, we could have a result within
Speaker 16: twelve hours. It's that close actually, So, as you said,
Speaker 16: closing arguments finished up yesterday. The defense went for about
Speaker 16: three hours and the prosecution went for about five hours.
Speaker 16: Jurors actually stayed until eight pm last night, which is
Speaker 16: very unusual. So this morning in New York, the judge
Speaker 16: will give the instructions to the jurors and then they'll
Speaker 16: start their deliberations. And that you know, that could take
Speaker 16: a few hours, It could take a few days. I mean,
Speaker 16: the experts say the longer the decision takes, the more
Speaker 16: likely it will be an acquittal. But the experts are
Speaker 16: basically pretty divided fifty to fifty.
Speaker 15: I mean, there are many.
Speaker 16: Areas where jurors should have reasonable doubt. But of course,
Speaker 16: this is New York, this is a this is a
Speaker 16: district that voted eighty five percent for Democrats in twenty twenty.
Speaker 16: So we have to wait and.
Speaker 2: Say this was quite an extraordinary tirade. Today from Hollywood
Speaker 2: a lister Robert de Niro.
Speaker 13: Have a look, if Trump returns to the White House,
Speaker 13: you can kiss these freedoms goodbye that we all take
Speaker 13: for granted, and elections forget about it. That's over, that's done.
Speaker 13: If he gets in, I can tell you right now.
Speaker 5: He will never leave.
Speaker 3: It's a bit much, isn't it. Adam is going to
Speaker 3: Trump's going to counsel elections.
Speaker 14: Yeah.
Speaker 16: Look, certainly that actor has been He's been on TV
Speaker 16: many times blasting Donald Trump. He's hated him for a
Speaker 16: long time. I think the real question is why Democrats
Speaker 16: thought that that would help them. I mean, we saw
Speaker 16: in our own debate in Australia in the Voice that
Speaker 16: having celebrities on your side does not help. And one
Speaker 16: of the core concerns of Americans is, of course inflation.
Speaker 16: So do they really want to be hearing from a
Speaker 16: rich guy in New York saying that Donald Trump supposedly
Speaker 16: is going to be a dictator. I don't think so,
Speaker 16: but certainly it was very entertaining.
Speaker 2: Indeed, now Trump seems to have changed his view on
Speaker 2: Julian Assange.
Speaker 1: Let's have a look at this.
Speaker 16: Will you pardon Julian Assange.
Speaker 13: Well, I'm going to talk about that today and we're
Speaker 13: going to give it very serious consideration.
Speaker 2: So Adam, look, there is this new ground smell of
Speaker 2: support for assiannge. I've never personally understood it, but the
Speaker 2: general sentiment on both sides of politics now seems to
Speaker 2: be that he's kind of done his time, even though
Speaker 2: he's never actually done his time, but that, you know,
Speaker 2: the view is, and there is this pressure from the
Speaker 2: Prime Minister in Australia on the Biden administration and obviously
Speaker 2: on parts of the team Trump to pardon Assan and
Speaker 2: just let him be free and live his life.
Speaker 1: What do you think, Well, I.
Speaker 16: Think the likely thing now is the US is just
Speaker 16: going to wait to see how this appeal goes in
Speaker 16: the UK, and perhaps if he's victorious in the appeal.
Speaker 16: If Assigne is victorious, the US might just drop it, because,
Speaker 16: as you suggest, on both sides of politics, there is
Speaker 16: this growing support for him. There is this belief that
Speaker 16: he has served enough time.
Speaker 15: In effect.
Speaker 16: Look, I think in Trump's case, that's really going to
Speaker 16: depend which ministers end up in his cabinet. I mean,
Speaker 16: of course, it was his administration that seriously pursued Assange
Speaker 16: in the first place. So there's quite a diversity of views.
Speaker 16: You've got Mike Pompeo, the former Secretary of State, who
Speaker 16: really really hates Assange, and indeed, of course, as you know,
Speaker 16: there were reports that he tried to kill him, have
Speaker 16: him assassinated. And then, of course, on the other hand,
Speaker 16: you've got people like the President.
Speaker 2: Sorry, Adam, let me just clarify that there. Let me
Speaker 2: just clarify that there, for accuracy, Mike Pompeo himself didn't
Speaker 2: try to kill a Signs. The allegations are that, oh CIA, Yes,
Speaker 2: allegations are that the.
Speaker 1: CIA tried to have him killed.
Speaker 2: Those allegations were made by assigners lawyer who came on
Speaker 2: the show to speak about it, Jennifer Robinson, and she
Speaker 2: claims to have documents that support it.
Speaker 1: Continue.
Speaker 16: Yes, yes, that's right. No, yes, So look, I mean
Speaker 16: I think it's a really uncertain what happens. I mean,
Speaker 16: Joe Biden of course recently made a flitting remark that
Speaker 16: he was considering Australia's request to drop the charges. So look,
Speaker 16: let's just wait and see. But certainly politics are involved.
Speaker 16: The more popular, the more sympathy there is for him,
Speaker 16: the more likely. I think ultimately the US will drop
Speaker 16: the charges.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Just a system, especially in the US, never free from politics,
Speaker 2: as we've seen with this Trump case. All right, Adam Crichton,
Speaker 2: thank you very much for joining me. Now coming up,
Speaker 2: the Labor admits its own error on immigration security, forcing
Speaker 2: a rewrite of their disastrous policy. Will have a fiery
Speaker 2: debate with my political panel after the break.
Speaker 1: Welcome back.
Speaker 2: Well, the Immigration Minister Andrew Giles is under immense pressure
Speaker 2: to resign. I feel like I've been saying that on
Speaker 2: air for weeks now, but the pressure is really on today.
Speaker 2: And he has vowed to review the cases of up
Speaker 2: to thirty foreigners, some with extraordinary criminal histories, and yet
Speaker 2: they were allowed to keep their visas because of their
Speaker 2: links to Australia.
Speaker 14: A number of cases were not raised with me by
Speaker 14: my department, and I've asked my department for an explanation
Speaker 14: why my department is now looking at all these cases
Speaker 14: as a priority of the pain. They are all under
Speaker 14: cancelation consideration.
Speaker 2: All the department's fault wasn't raised with me, never his responsibility,
Speaker 2: even though he is the minister. I mean, despite this
Speaker 2: clear incompetence, the Home Affairs Minister defended him on breakfast
Speaker 2: television today.
Speaker 17: So actually, Minister Giles has stepped in here. He's taking
Speaker 17: action as a good minister would do. He has demanded
Speaker 17: answers from the department about why these visas were not
Speaker 17: brought to his attention.
Speaker 2: All right, let's bring in our political panel, National Senate
Speaker 2: Leader Bridget McKenzie and Labor MP Daniel Malino. Daniel, I
Speaker 2: have to say I almost feel sorry for you having
Speaker 2: to try defend your colleague here because everyone can see
Speaker 2: that the incompetence has got to such a point that
Speaker 2: something needs to give.
Speaker 1: He's got to go.
Speaker 2: He's not up to the job of managing our border
Speaker 2: security and the community safety.
Speaker 18: Well, can I just begin my answer by saying, and look,
Speaker 18: I think this is something that all MPs would agree with,
Speaker 18: that a number of very disturbing cases have been raised
Speaker 18: in the House and more generally, and I just want
Speaker 18: to firstly say that obviously my thoughts go out to
Speaker 18: any people who have been affected by any crimes. So
Speaker 18: that's just the starting point. Look, what we're dealing with
Speaker 18: is an incredibly complex system and just by way of context,
Speaker 18: and I haven't raised this in previous weeks. But I
Speaker 18: do just want to say that we inherited a system
Speaker 18: that had been heavily criticized by a number of independent reviews.
Speaker 18: Christine Nixon, Dennis Richards, and Martin Parkinson, people who are
Speaker 18: widely respected across the parties. They all said that the
Speaker 18: system had been neglected for a long period of time.
Speaker 18: We inherited not only a system that was creaking at
Speaker 18: the seams, but there was a gargantuin waiting list. So
Speaker 18: it's in that context that this government has been trying
Speaker 18: to fix a mess which we inherited. Now, when it
Speaker 18: comes to these AAT cases, a criterion was added, but
Speaker 18: the clear intention was that matters like the severity of
Speaker 18: the crime family violence in particular should remain paramount. And
Speaker 18: I think the Minister's now coming in after having found
Speaker 18: out belatedly some of these cases, to fix and clarify this,
Speaker 18: and I think that's the right action.
Speaker 2: Bridget Daniel Molina says, this was your system. It was
Speaker 2: your mess that they're trying to fix up.
Speaker 19: Well, it's not that this is yeah, absolutely, this guy
Speaker 19: has spent his entire adult life seeking to weaken Operation
Speaker 19: Sovereign Borders. Who has not actually appreciated that the reason
Speaker 19: we have a tough approach to immigration and the settings
Speaker 19: we had when we were in government was to make
Speaker 19: sure that real people didn't get really hurt in real life.
Speaker 19: And now he's taken his university philos to the ministerial
Speaker 19: sign off stage and he's making mistake after mistake after mistake,
Speaker 19: and it is absolutely fascical. And I think, Shari, when
Speaker 19: you opened with the know, how can labor keep defending
Speaker 19: this guy when Australians are not being saved and every
Speaker 19: time he comes on to try and fix the job,
Speaker 19: it's just in the greater stuff up.
Speaker 1: He has to go.
Speaker 19: And if the PM had any leadership capacity, he would
Speaker 19: sack Giles and appoint someone who can actually.
Speaker 1: Do the job. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I should just clarify that at the start
Speaker 2: there you were speaking about Andrew Giles and not our guest,
Speaker 2: Sir Daniel Melino In in case anyone wondered. Now, inflation has
Speaker 2: crept back up to three point six percent in the
Speaker 2: year to April. This is the second consecutive month is
Speaker 2: that it has inched higher. It is concerning data. It
Speaker 2: takes the chance of an interest rate cut off the
Speaker 2: table Treasurer Jim Chalmers look says that he's not too
Speaker 2: concerned about this. Daniel, Why isn't the government worried that
Speaker 2: inflation has gone up to three point six percent?
Speaker 18: Well, well, look, I mean clearly I'd rather be coming
Speaker 18: in here saying it had edged down by point one
Speaker 18: rather than gone up by point one. But look, I'd
Speaker 18: say a couple of things. One is it's really good
Speaker 18: that Australia is now collecting monthly CPI data because for
Speaker 18: a long time it was only quarterly, and all of
Speaker 18: the other major economies collected monthly, which is clearly important
Speaker 18: because the central banks make much more frequent decisions than quarterly.
Speaker 18: But when you collect monthly, it does tend to be
Speaker 18: more volatile. And our monthly numbers only get updated with
Speaker 18: about two thirds of the basket, so we've just got
Speaker 18: to be a lot more cautious with how we interpret
Speaker 18: the monthly number. The second thing is this is an
Speaker 18: April read, so it's pre budget and that's another cavet.
Speaker 18: And finally, what I would say is there are cross
Speaker 18: currents in the data at the minute, so unemployed Sorry,
Speaker 18: inflation edged up by point one, but the day before
Speaker 18: we had retail sales near flat for the sixth month
Speaker 18: in a row at point one, which shows that the
Speaker 18: reserve banks interest rate rises are having a real impact
Speaker 18: on spending in the economy. And today we saw construction down,
Speaker 18: so we are really seeing a lot of measures indicating
Speaker 18: that aggregate demand is reducing, which is what we need
Speaker 18: to see in order for inflation to come down. And
Speaker 18: find I just make the point that it's gone up
Speaker 18: by point one, but it has come down materially from
Speaker 18: when it was above eight. So I think we're still
Speaker 18: tracking in the right direction in terms of the trend,
Speaker 18: and we just need to wait for that quarterly number
Speaker 18: to get the real trend.
Speaker 3: All right, Well, let's bring Bridget in on this.
Speaker 2: And you know, at the same time, we've seen today
Speaker 2: that Ed Husick has broken ranks to intervene on economic policy.
Speaker 2: It's been seen as a challenger, an undermining of the
Speaker 2: Treasurer's authority. So the industry minister, who's got nothing to
Speaker 2: do with the financial portfolios in government, he's broken ranks
Speaker 2: to urge Jim Chalmers to lower company taxes.
Speaker 20: Here he is I believe in the strongest labor traditions.
Speaker 20: We need to be able to bring business and labor
Speaker 20: labo you are together and show that everyone wins. I
Speaker 20: mean that has been the legacy, that that's been the
Speaker 20: hallmark of previous labor governments, and we need to consider
Speaker 20: that how we do that, either through corporate tax reform
Speaker 20: or the way in which we provide investment allowances for
Speaker 20: the uptick in manufacturing capital.
Speaker 2: Look, I'm going to get to your bridget, but just
Speaker 2: very quickly, Daniel, do you agree with him?
Speaker 18: Well, look, my whole career has been based on a
Speaker 18: labor party that works with business for productivity and employment.
Speaker 18: I mean, I think corporate tax reform for me, is
Speaker 18: much more than about the rate. It's also about things
Speaker 18: like the production subjecties. We've talked about about instant as
Speaker 18: set right off. So both parties I think have engaged
Speaker 18: in corporate tax reform. I don't think there's much in
Speaker 18: there that's particularly new.
Speaker 2: But do you think do you agree with that music
Speaker 2: that we should that the government should look at lowering
Speaker 2: company taxes?
Speaker 18: Well, you know, I mean I think we should be
Speaker 18: looking at a whole range of taxes that could potentially
Speaker 18: be reduced if they're inefficient and economy. That's always got
Speaker 18: to be balanced against the need for revenue. I don't
Speaker 18: think this is on the government's agenda, and he was
Speaker 18: talking about long term so I certainly don't think that's
Speaker 18: something on this government's agenda.
Speaker 2: Bridget what do you think Do you think it is
Speaker 2: time to address the company tax rate?
Speaker 1: Absolutely?
Speaker 19: You know, I think having a look at our entire
Speaker 19: tax system.
Speaker 1: Is very needed. What I think Ed has done.
Speaker 19: With this particular speech has actually you know, got the
Speaker 19: starter's gun going on the next labor leadership issue. The
Speaker 19: ALP MPs clearly know the Prime Minister isn't up for
Speaker 19: the job. He lost his authority over the Voice and
Speaker 19: his leadership has failed following Hermas's massacre on October the
Speaker 19: seventh and this government's poor response here at home with
Speaker 19: matters pertaining to Israel.
Speaker 1: So they're all lining up. ED isn't the only one.
Speaker 19: Richard Marles was spooking his wares against anti Semitism here
Speaker 19: in Parliament today we had tan Plibusec's taking a very
Speaker 19: strong stance one the Coalition has been talking about a
Speaker 19: long time against pornography and its impact on our young people.
Speaker 19: So you'll see Tony Burke coming out shortly. I'm sure
Speaker 19: and others. As it becomes clearer that the labor corcus,
Speaker 19: particularly the senior cabinet ministers, recognize that that the Prime
Speaker 19: Minister just isn't up to the job.
Speaker 2: Right Daniel, I've got to let you respond to that
Speaker 2: very quickly because we're out of time. Do you think
Speaker 2: this is ed Husick showing that he doesn't support the
Speaker 2: prime minister?
Speaker 18: No, Look, I actually feel like our political system works
Speaker 18: best when people can throw ideas in the mix. And
Speaker 18: as I said, I think this idea is actually very consistent.
Speaker 18: This is very consistent with a central plank of the budget,
Speaker 18: which is corporate tax guarn leaf for companies that engage
Speaker 18: in green hydrogen investment and critical minerals investment. So I
Speaker 18: actually think it's very consistent with the core plank of
Speaker 18: our future made in Australia. So I don't see anything
Speaker 18: in this, but I think political.
Speaker 2: Impressive spin, Daniel Milino, very impressive spin, and Husick is
Speaker 2: doing a very proud Daniel Milino, Bridget McKenzie, thank you
Speaker 2: both very much for joining me.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: After the break, Sydney University caves in to the anti
Speaker 2: Israel protesters, offering to give them a say in policies
Speaker 2: plus breaking news just in the Greens have put a
Speaker 2: specific demand on the table to support Labor should there
Speaker 2: be a hung parliament. Stay tuned, welcome back, well breaking
Speaker 2: news just now by Joe Kelly in The Australia.
Speaker 1: He says that.
Speaker 2: The Greens leader Adam adam Band has put recognition of
Speaker 2: a Palestinian state as one of the key demands that
Speaker 2: he'll make of Anthony Alberizi if they go into talks
Speaker 2: if there is a hung parliament at the next election,
Speaker 2: well to discuss this and more. Bringing now the Executive
Speaker 2: Council of Australian Jury CO Chief Executive Alex Rifchin. Alex,
Speaker 2: thank you for joining us. So Adam bound just giving
Speaker 2: those comments right now to Joe Kelly in The Australian,
Speaker 2: he says he will elevate the recognition of a Palestinian
Speaker 2: state in any discussions for minority government should the election
Speaker 2: return a hung parliament. This does feel concerns about a
Speaker 2: Labor Green coalition. I mean we think kind of Labour
Speaker 2: hasn't been strong enough to support the Jewish community as
Speaker 2: it is, but if they get into a coalition with
Speaker 2: the Greens, this could get even worse, it.
Speaker 15: Would be a dangerous thing. It's frankly unthinkable. In the
Speaker 15: past seven eight months, since October seven, the Greens have
Speaker 15: staked out the most extreme positions against Israel and the
Speaker 15: Jewish community imaginable. We've seen their members of parliament at
Speaker 15: state and federal level engage in overt open anti Semitism.
Speaker 15: We're talking about genllingly On, the member for Newtown in
Speaker 15: the New South Wales Parliament, talking about Jewish tentacles seeking
Speaker 15: to control power and government and so forth, and no sanction,
Speaker 15: no actions were taken against her by her party. So
Speaker 15: this is a party that needs to be considered what
Speaker 15: it is, which is institutionally anti Semitic, and as such
Speaker 15: the major party should pledge to preference them last. And
Speaker 15: the notion that Labor would actually do a deal with
Speaker 15: them and be beholden to them in some sort of
Speaker 15: a coalition government is apparent, and we would call on
Speaker 15: Labor to declare that it will not, in any circumstances
Speaker 15: sit in coalition with the Greens, particularly given this latest
Speaker 15: policy gener of Airs pushing for the declaration of a
Speaker 15: Palestine state, effectively recognizing the terror state in Gaza. That's
Speaker 15: something that most Australians would find vile and extreme, and
Speaker 15: it's something that we as the Jewish community would oppose
Speaker 15: until the very end.
Speaker 2: Well, it is a sitting week in Canberra. This is
Speaker 2: a big story. Labor is going to have to respond
Speaker 2: to it tomorrow. But the reality is Labour's halfway there
Speaker 2: down the path of saying that they recognize oppaliance Palestinian state.
Speaker 1: In any case, Now, Alex, I want.
Speaker 2: To ask you about this offer from the University of
Speaker 2: Sydney's Mark Scott to the pro Palestinian protesters to be
Speaker 2: involved in reviewing the institutions that are involved in their
Speaker 2: defense and security ties. The Vice Chancellor, Mike Scott has
Speaker 2: given the campus until three o'clock tomorrow to respond to
Speaker 2: the offer. I mean, these protesters responsible for hate chance
Speaker 2: and yet then they're rewarded by this And wouldn't this
Speaker 2: effectively amount to a boycott of Israeli companies anyway.
Speaker 15: Well, we need to see exactly what Mark Scott and
Speaker 15: the university has supposedly agreed to with these students. But
Speaker 15: on the face of it, it looks like a pathetic capitulation
Speaker 15: to extreme this. It looks like appeasement in its worst form.
Speaker 15: From the very beginning, we have caught on the universities
Speaker 15: to close these encampments, to enforce their policies to protect Joys,
Speaker 15: students and staff. We're being intimidated and harassed. We're being
Speaker 15: told to stay home from campus for their own safety.
Speaker 15: And if a deal has in fact been done with
Speaker 15: these thugs and extremists, it shows that they have greater
Speaker 15: rights and greater powers than Jewish students and academics who
Speaker 15: simply want to learn and study at their university. We
Speaker 15: need to see exactly what Mark Sot has agreed to.
Speaker 15: But if there is any pledge to review arrangements or
Speaker 15: agreements with Israeli universities, if this opens the path to
Speaker 15: a boycott campaign, they'll be responsible for everything that ensues.
Speaker 15: They would have set a terrible piece of it, not
Speaker 15: only for this university, but for higher education institutions throughout
Speaker 15: the country. This is one of our most esteemed and
Speaker 15: prestigious universities, and to think that they would engage in
Speaker 15: any sort of negotiation with these people who have openly
Speaker 15: professed their support for terrorism is a very disappointing thing
Speaker 15: in the extreme.
Speaker 2: Indeed, all right, Alex Ripchin, thank you very much for
Speaker 2: joining me tonight now. Usually I bring you the big news,
Speaker 2: but tonight my mate Paul Murray has a big story
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 3: So I'll see you tomorrow at eight. And here he is.