Speaker 1: It's been so much talk about whether or not you're
Speaker 1: getting a face to face meeting with journals.
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you when I'm out there in
Speaker 2: the real world, I do not get asked about it.
Speaker 3: The Prime Minister keeps on saying that everyone's overplaying the
Speaker 3: fact that he hasn't managed to have a meeting, and
Speaker 3: the media is obsessed with it, and we should all
Speaker 3: give it a rest.
Speaker 1: We're obsessed with it.
Speaker 4: Will you have a face to face meeting with Donald Trump? Well,
Speaker 4: when we do, you'll know about it, so it's not
Speaker 4: booked up.
Speaker 3: But the truth is this is a really important bilateral relationship.
Speaker 3: The government acknowledges that the United States is our most
Speaker 3: important security partner, and the president has been in office
Speaker 3: since January and was elected last November, which is coming
Speaker 3: up for eleven months ago, and the two of them
Speaker 3: haven't eyeballed each other yet.
Speaker 4: Karen Middleton is a political journalist and author of Albanesi
Speaker 4: Telling It Straight, and while Anthony Alberanzi has been playing
Speaker 4: down the fact that he hasn't had a one on
Speaker 4: one meeting with Trump yet, Karen says it actually tells
Speaker 4: us a lot about the state of the relationship between
Speaker 4: our two countries. Now, finally, after a huge effort from
Speaker 4: the Australian government, there's a date on the calendar with
Speaker 4: the two leaders set to meet in the Oval Office
Speaker 4: on the twentieth of October. So will it go the
Speaker 4: way of Zelenski's meeting in the Oval Office? And how
Speaker 4: is the Prime Minister preparing for this unpredictable face off.
Speaker 4: I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM today
Speaker 4: Karen Middleton on Albanezy Trump and what Australia stands to
Speaker 4: win and lose. It's Monday, September twenty nine. So Karen,
Speaker 4: given how long Trump has been in office, now, what
Speaker 4: does it say to you that it has taken this
Speaker 4: long for a date for a meeting to be set.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, you could say he's a busy man.
Speaker 3: He's got a long list of people who want to
Speaker 3: see him. But I think it's hard to avoid the
Speaker 3: conclusion that Australia was not right up there among his
Speaker 3: top priorities. The two leaders had agreed to meet on
Speaker 3: the sidelines at the G seven in Canada, and the
Speaker 3: President then had to leave early because of developments in
Speaker 3: the Middle East. So that's a very plausible explanation for
Speaker 3: early departure. But he has left summits early before without
Speaker 3: such a plausible explanation. And if you look at the
Speaker 3: company that Albanezi was in at the bottom of the
Speaker 3: list of meetings that Donald Trump had scheduled at the summit,
Speaker 3: it suggests that these were all people with whom he
Speaker 3: had some kind of disagreement. You know, the leaders of Mexico, India,
Speaker 3: South Korea, and of course the president of Ukraine who
Speaker 3: Donald Trump famously ambushed in the Oval Office earlier in
Speaker 3: the year. These were all people with whom Donald Trump
Speaker 3: has had skirmishes or disagreements in recent times, and all
Speaker 3: of them, Anthony Alberanzi were the people who got their
Speaker 3: meetings canceled. And on top of that, soon after the summer,
Speaker 3: Donald Trump either spoke to or met with all of
Speaker 3: those others, but not Anthony Albernizi. So it's hard to
Speaker 3: avoid this conclusion that there was some kind of.
Speaker 4: A message in there. Okay, So, while publicly Anthony Alberzi
Speaker 4: has been saying that not having a meeting with Trump
Speaker 4: is not a very big deal, can we assume that
Speaker 4: privately the government has been trying to make this meeting happen.
Speaker 4: What do we know about what has been going on
Speaker 4: behind the scenes to get to this point.
Speaker 3: Well, it certainly seems that's the case. They've been looking
Speaker 3: forward to the meeting in Canada, and I think since
Speaker 3: then they've been trying to make sure that that a
Speaker 3: meeting does take place. We saw the Defense Minister, Richard Miles,
Speaker 3: who's also the Deputy Prime Minister, race off to Washington
Speaker 3: in late August. They still haven't really explained what that
Speaker 3: was about, but he did meet with Marco Rubio, the
Speaker 3: secondary State and National Security Advisor, who's also the person
Speaker 3: in the administration responsible for coordinating the president's bilateral meetings,
Speaker 3: so maybe there is a clue there. He came home
Speaker 3: and a week later there was another phone call between
Speaker 3: the President and the Prime Minister, and it seems that
Speaker 3: maybe it was that call, or even a subsequent one
Speaker 3: that we hadn't heard about, that has locked in this
Speaker 3: October twenty date. And since then, we've had a number
Speaker 3: of announcements from the government that would be probably received
Speaker 3: positively in the United States, like what, well, we know
Speaker 3: the United States administration wants Australia to increase its defense
Speaker 3: spending from somewhere around two point three percent of GDP
Speaker 3: to three point five percent of GDP. The government has
Speaker 3: pushed back on that and said, what we'll do is
Speaker 3: decide what we need to acquire, what capability we need,
Speaker 3: and we're not going to be tied to a percentage.
Speaker 3: But since then you've certainly seen announcements that are about
Speaker 3: defense spending.
Speaker 2: So today's investment is another way we're delivering record defense
Speaker 2: funding to bolster Australia's capabilities. We're investing in our capability
Speaker 2: and we're investing in our relationships.
Speaker 3: We saw one recently a twelve billion dollar upgrade of
Speaker 3: the Henderson Defense Precinct in Western Australia, which is where
Speaker 3: the Orchest submarines will be based and will be used
Speaker 3: as a maintenance hub for American submarines as well. And
Speaker 3: we've also seen Richard Miles start talking about using a
Speaker 3: different metric, a different way of assessing the percentage of
Speaker 3: defense spending.
Speaker 1: The percentage GDP number is not one that we focus on,
Speaker 1: I mean, and partly that's because others do, sure, but
Speaker 1: obviously the Americans do. And these are your numbers about
Speaker 1: what it's getting to. Two point three percent.
Speaker 4: So what will this mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but partly why we don't focus on it is
Speaker 1: because you can look at a different arrange of different measures.
Speaker 3: Meaning it says if they were using the formula that
Speaker 3: NATO users, then we'd be up to two point eight
Speaker 3: percent already. So you've got those two things a bit
Speaker 3: of a hint that they are, while not wanting to
Speaker 3: change Australian policy to suit the United States, prepared to
Speaker 3: take some steps to appease their concerns. And we also
Speaker 3: saw Penny Wong make an announcement recently on Russian sanctions.
Speaker 3: Now Australia has sanctions against Russian ships and they're added
Speaker 3: to a number of Russian ships that might be transporting
Speaker 3: Russian oil. We also have a companion measure that is
Speaker 3: a Russian oil price cap, and we certainly know that
Speaker 3: Donald Trump doesn't like other countries buying Russian oil and
Speaker 3: is wanting to push that price down. So that is
Speaker 3: another mechanism, another announcement quietly made that won't displease the
Speaker 3: American president. I think what they're trying to do is
Speaker 3: to be seen to be a good ally, a good friend,
Speaker 3: but not shift Australian policy in response to pressure. From
Speaker 3: the United States, and it's quite a fine line to walk.
Speaker 4: Coming up advice for the prim Minister on how to
Speaker 4: handle the meeting. So, Karen, as you've said, the government
Speaker 4: has been working hard to please Trump ahead of finally
Speaker 4: securing this meeting, but on a number of matters Albanize
Speaker 4: has done the opposite. So there was the recognition of Palestine.
Speaker 4: There was his big speech about more regulation for tech companies.
Speaker 4: He also talked about climate change. So how do you
Speaker 4: think that Albenze is doing it trying to balance his
Speaker 4: own objectives and this need to have a good relationship
Speaker 4: with the US president when a lot of the time
Speaker 4: these two things are so diametrically opposed.
Speaker 3: Yes, And the tension here is because he's got a
Speaker 3: domestic audience and then he's got this international relationship that
Speaker 3: is important to Australia, and he knows that he has
Speaker 3: support from home for a lot of those measures, and
Speaker 3: support particularly for not bowing down to what Donald Trump wants,
Speaker 3: not changing Australia's positions because of Donald Trump. But he
Speaker 3: doesn't want to make him angry. He doesn't want to
Speaker 3: unnecessarily antagonize. So he's got to now find a way
Speaker 3: to forge a personal relationship and offer Donald Trump the
Speaker 3: positives in the relationship. Now we know that President Trump
Speaker 3: is a person who's looking for what the United States
Speaker 3: and what he personally can achieve from these relationships, and
Speaker 3: so Australia has to present the positive side, what orcast
Speaker 3: will mean for the US and what mutual benefit, as
Speaker 3: the governments would see it, those two countries can get
Speaker 3: out of that submarine impact. What Australia can offer things
Speaker 3: like you know, Australian superannuation funds and out going around
Speaker 3: the United States saying hey, we've got a two trillion
Speaker 3: dollar pot of money to invest in your country and
Speaker 3: you know, in good projects. So that's something that we'll
Speaker 3: appeal to the US president. And Australia has critical minerals
Speaker 3: to offer. So these are the kinds of things that
Speaker 3: Anthony Albanezi will now be presenting, not changing the Australian
Speaker 3: policy and having to defend it. And I think the
Speaker 3: suggestion is you do better as Donald Trump if you
Speaker 3: stick to your guns in a sense and don't be
Speaker 3: seen to be blown with the window or in weak
Speaker 3: in any way. But saying here, this is what I
Speaker 3: can offer you, this is what our country brings. This
Speaker 3: is why we can work well together.
Speaker 4: And Albanezi has so far rejected calls from within the
Speaker 4: Trump camp to replace Kevin Rudd as ambassador to the US.
Speaker 4: So tell me about what Rudd has been doing and
Speaker 4: how that's complicating the situation.
Speaker 3: Well, it is complicated. I mean, Kevin Rudd is a
Speaker 3: former Prime minister, so he has higher status as an ambassador. Unfortunately, though,
Speaker 3: there are key people in the Trump administration who don't
Speaker 3: like him. Kevin RhD had made some very forthright comments
Speaker 3: on social media before Donald Trump was a re elected
Speaker 3: president that were highly critical of him in it quite
Speaker 3: a personal way. Now they've been deleted, but they were noted,
Speaker 3: and these are the kinds of things that do anger
Speaker 3: some in the Trump administration and certainly President Trump himself.
Speaker 3: He has said in recent days how much he's not
Speaker 3: a forgiver of his opponents. He's a hater of his opponents,
Speaker 3: and he's not keen on working with people he doesn't like.
Speaker 3: So that makes it more complicated. When you talk to
Speaker 3: people familiar with how Australia is regarded in Washington, many
Speaker 3: many of them say Kevin Rud is highly regarded that
Speaker 3: some say they don't know that anyone else could have
Speaker 3: done a better job at trying to open doors for Australia.
Speaker 3: He's a globally recognized expert on China who speaks Mandarin. Obviously,
Speaker 3: the whole issue around China is the issue in the
Speaker 3: region that we live in at the moment in terms
Speaker 3: of security. So you know, he brings a lot to relationship,
Speaker 3: but there is this problem about whether they like him
Speaker 3: or not and whether that has made things slightly difficult.
Speaker 4: And so this meeting between Trump and Albanezi, it's just
Speaker 4: a few weeks away. What kind of advice do you
Speaker 4: think that the Prime Minister is fielding on how he
Speaker 4: should handle it?
Speaker 3: Well, I'm sure he's getting plenty of free advice privately,
Speaker 3: and he's certainly getting a lot publicly about how he
Speaker 3: should go about it. Anthony Alberanezi himself has said, you know,
Speaker 3: he's just going to be himself. That he likes to
Speaker 3: think he gets on well with people, he can find
Speaker 3: common ground, and that's what he'll be trying to do.
Speaker 4: Trump is notoriously unpredictable, though, So what do you think
Speaker 4: we should expect to come out of this? Is there
Speaker 4: any risk that we could see some kind of Zelenski
Speaker 4: like showdown. Do you think that Alberanezi would be worried
Speaker 4: about that possibility.
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm sure he's worried about that possibility. And I
Speaker 3: think there is always a risk because the President is
Speaker 3: nothing if not unpredictable, and we've certainly seen him him
Speaker 3: speak his mind in public to the discomfort of other
Speaker 3: leaders when it suits him. But we've also seen him
Speaker 3: get along with the leaders like so Kirstama in the UK,
Speaker 3: who is whose politics are more like Anthony Avenesi's, who
Speaker 3: also opposes a lot of Donald Trump's positions on big issues,
Speaker 3: but they seem to get on well. And we've seen
Speaker 3: in recent times that President Trump has changed his attitude
Speaker 3: to Volodimese Elenski from Ukraine. He's now saying Ukraine could
Speaker 3: be able to get all of its land back and
Speaker 3: that Russia's got to stop. So, you know, he's a
Speaker 3: mercurial person. He can be charming and also scathing, and
Speaker 3: Anthony Abnezi will be trying to get a little more
Speaker 3: of the former a little less of the latter, while
Speaker 3: also raising issues for Australia that are going to be difficult,
Speaker 3: like tariffs, and we've just seen huge tariffs now being
Speaker 3: announced for the pharmaceutical industry which would really impact Australian industry.
Speaker 3: So if Australia it might be able to dance around
Speaker 3: the tariff issue and not necessarily make a thing of
Speaker 3: it because we did reasonably well compared to other countries,
Speaker 3: we only getting a ten percent tariff, although we did
Speaker 3: get hit. We are getting hip of steel and aluminium terriffs.
Speaker 3: It's hard to avoid that issue now and Anthony Ovens
Speaker 3: he's going to have to focus a lot on how
Speaker 3: to manage that. And of course the real elephant in
Speaker 3: the room is the fact that Anthony Albaniz he've won
Speaker 3: an election by distancing himself from Donald Trump and highlighting
Speaker 3: the fact that his opponent was replicating Donald Trump's policies
Speaker 3: and his government was not. That's a bit hard to
Speaker 3: avoid and that's where we could run into problems and
Speaker 3: where it could get slightly awkward if Donald Trump decides
Speaker 3: to make an issue with it.
Speaker 4: Well, Karen, thank you so much for your time. Thanks Ruby.
Speaker 4: Also in the news, Donald Trump's use of the military
Speaker 4: on US soil is set to expand, with the President
Speaker 4: saying he plans to send troops to Portland, Oregon. Trump
Speaker 4: said immigration and customs enforcement facilities are under attack from
Speaker 4: Antifa and that he authorizes full force if necessary. Portland
Speaker 4: Mayor Keith Wilson rejected the claim and said there was
Speaker 4: no need for troops in his city. Portland is run
Speaker 4: by Democrats and is known as a sanctuary city, one
Speaker 4: that limits cooperation with federal immigration enforcement. Trump has now
Speaker 4: approved the use of the military to deal with domestic
Speaker 4: issues in Memphis, Washington, d C. And Los Angeles. And
Speaker 4: Anthony Alberonezi has ruled out a referendum to make Australia
Speaker 4: a republic while he is Prime Minister, despite being in
Speaker 4: favor of an Australian head of state. The Prime Minister
Speaker 4: reaffirmed his position on Sunday that there would only be
Speaker 4: one referendum during his time at leading the country, the
Speaker 4: Voice referendum in twenty twenty three. Speaking on the ABC's
Speaker 4: Insiders program after meeting King Charles at Balmoral, he said,
Speaker 4: while they did not discuss it, the King is aware
Speaker 4: he's in favor of Australia becoming a republic. I'm Ruby Jones.
Speaker 4: This is seven AM. Thanks for listening.