Speaker 1: Pedo Kredlin live on Sky News Australia.
Speaker 2: Good evening and a welcome to the show. Here is
Speaker 2: what's coming up on Credline. Warning shots today from the
Speaker 2: Australian Chamber of Commerce, which says the Federal government's wild
Speaker 2: spending risks pushing out private investment. More on that soon,
Speaker 2: And for the first time, modeling backed by the Federal
Speaker 2: government via the CSIRO has dramatically reignited the energy debate,
Speaker 2: suggesting more coal and gas could deliver cheap electricity than renewables.
Speaker 2: The Prime Minister says he's learnt his lesson after the
Speaker 2: podcast controversy, but has the damage already been done? Plus
Speaker 2: university bosses seemingly all at sea as the grilling at
Speaker 2: the Royal Commission into Anti Semitism continues.
Speaker 3: Sfesser Brown can ask you to describe the Israeli flag
Speaker 3: to the Commission.
Speaker 4: What does the Israeli flag look like?
Speaker 5: What colors are on the US?
Speaker 6: I'm during a mental blank.
Speaker 2: The Liberal Party doesn't need quotas it needs conviction. After
Speaker 2: two devastating election losses, the Liberal Party is asking itself
Speaker 2: what would mensies do? As the Liberal Party tries to
Speaker 2: find its relevance and pathway back to government. They are
Speaker 2: talking again about gender quotas now. I agree the party
Speaker 2: needs to change, but they're looking in the wrong place.
Speaker 2: I want to see more women in parliament. I've been
Speaker 2: a Liberal candidate and campaigned alongside incredibly talented women Ronox,
Speaker 2: Giselle Capterarian, Katie Mullins, Joe vander Platt, Amrei A.
Speaker 7: Hamer, just to name a few.
Speaker 2: And they were pre selected because they are outstanding individuals,
Speaker 2: not because they're women. Merit should never become negotiable because
Speaker 2: the moment someone is selected to satisfy a quota, you
Speaker 2: unfairly cast doubt over every achievement that follows. That's not
Speaker 2: empowering women, it's diminishing them. Shadow Defense Minister Andrew Hasty
Speaker 2: was asked about gender quotas today.
Speaker 4: My instinct is always to come back to merit. I
Speaker 4: think we have some amazing women in our party, We've
Speaker 4: got some really talented men, and I think we should
Speaker 4: have a merit based approach. It's as simple as that.
Speaker 4: We should certainly make more effort to recruit and develop
Speaker 4: and give opportunities to women. But once you start imposing
Speaker 4: quotas like the Labor Party. You kill the very idea
Speaker 4: of merit within the party and I think that's poisonous
Speaker 4: to cohesion.
Speaker 2: And Andrew Hasty is right, merit should always come first.
Speaker 2: Opposition leader Angus Taylor gave his thoughts on quotas.
Speaker 8: I've never supported any quote at all, but what I
Speaker 8: do support.
Speaker 3: What I do support is more great people joining the
Speaker 3: Liberal Party, and more great people women and from.
Speaker 8: All sorts of backgrounds. I have long believed that we
Speaker 8: have to rebuild our parties. There's an enormous amount of
Speaker 8: work to do.
Speaker 3: I welcome the work of the Commission and I strongly
Speaker 3: support that regeneration rebuild of the party that we need.
Speaker 2: But the part that's being overlooked. At the twenty twenty
Speaker 2: five federal election, not one Liberal female candidate was voted in,
Speaker 2: not one. On top of that, female MPs lost their seats.
Speaker 2: Had any female candidate been elected, or more female MPs
Speaker 2: retain their seats, the entire narrative would have changed. We'd
Speaker 2: all be saying, look at the talented women representing the
Speaker 2: Liberal Party. But the problem wasn't the candidates. It was
Speaker 2: convincing Australias to vote for them. The last election was
Speaker 2: a desigaster. Policies were rolled out late. Run a decent
Speaker 2: campaign and perhaps women will be elected as will men.
Speaker 2: It starts with policies. Where are your policies? Michael Kroger
Speaker 2: highlighted this point on Sky News earlier.
Speaker 9: Unlus, you've got an outstanding offering which is politically very smart,
Speaker 9: like elbows. Wasn't the last elector that it was in
Speaker 9: twenty two. We're not being beaten because we don't have
Speaker 9: migrants and women and young people. We're getting beaten because
Speaker 9: Labour's policies are more attractive, They're able to sell them better,
Speaker 9: and they've been better at politics at a federal level
Speaker 9: than we have.
Speaker 2: The Liberal should build the best childcare policy Australia has
Speaker 2: ever seen, because here's something politicians often forget. Women don't
Speaker 2: vote for women simply because they're women. Parents vote for
Speaker 2: policies that make their lives easier, give families genuine choice.
Speaker 2: That is a liberal idea. It's also a point of
Speaker 2: difference from Labor. Bring out an energy policy that means
Speaker 2: people don't choose between heating and eating back small businesses
Speaker 2: show aspiration still matters in this country. Reward hard work.
Speaker 2: That's how you reconnect with Australians. Robert Menzies built a
Speaker 2: political movement around opportunity, personal responsibility and the battle of ideas.
Speaker 2: He didn't ask Australians to lower the bar. He challenged
Speaker 2: them to rise above it. And that's the lesson worth remembering.
Speaker 2: The irony is yesterday the Liberal Party was making headlines
Speaker 2: for backing small business and that's exactly where it should be.
Speaker 2: But today the headlines are about gender quotas, about the
Speaker 2: Liberal Party talking about the Liberal Party again. That's the problem.
Speaker 2: Here's what Andrew Hasty told Mark Leavy this morning.
Speaker 4: People are so desperate for leadership. People are so desperate
Speaker 4: for solutions. You talk to people out on the streats
Speaker 4: at door knocking yesterday in Western Australia, and you know
Speaker 4: people are doing it tough. They just feel like they
Speaker 4: can't get ahead, and so they're looking to political leaders
Speaker 4: for solutions. They don't care if they're male, female, or
Speaker 4: what their background is. If people have a solution, they'll
Speaker 4: back them. And that's what we've got to focus on.
Speaker 2: The Liberal Party doesn't need quotas. It needs to give
Speaker 2: Australians reasons to vote for it again.
Speaker 7: And this isn't it. It takes time and trust. If
Speaker 7: you were.
Speaker 2: Forced to choose, would you pay the electricity bill or
Speaker 2: take your child to the doctor.
Speaker 7: That's the choice.
Speaker 2: Many Australian families are now facing. A new report today
Speaker 2: has found more than one in five households have skipped
Speaker 2: paying for essentials like rent, mortgage or medical treatment to
Speaker 2: afford their electricity bill. Australians were promised cheaper power.
Speaker 10: Reducing power prices by two hundred and seventy five dollars
Speaker 10: two hundred and seventy five dollars two hundred and seventy
Speaker 10: five dollars a year two hundred and seventy five dollars
Speaker 10: two hundred and seventy five dollars a year.
Speaker 2: Instead, this is now a national failure. ABS data shows
Speaker 2: energy rows twenty one percent in the year to May.
Speaker 2: Is there any wonder why? A survey in the Deli
Speaker 2: Telegraph showed that more than seventy eight percent of households
Speaker 2: are concerned about the cost of electricity, and that's before
Speaker 2: the other warning. The CSIRO now says the cost of
Speaker 2: generating electricity is expected to jump by more than fifty
Speaker 2: percent after twenty thirty as aging coal fired power stations
Speaker 2: are replaced to meet our net zero targets now. They
Speaker 2: also said relying more heavily on fossil fuels could reduce
Speaker 2: the cost of running Australia's electricity system, but warned that
Speaker 2: it would come with trade offs for emissions. And that's
Speaker 2: precisely why this debate shouldn't be about choosing one technology
Speaker 2: over another. It should be about finding the right mix.
Speaker 2: Yet the government's answer is just keep going, no change
Speaker 2: of direction. Let's just throw billions more at renewables, keep
Speaker 2: destroying our landscape and farms as we chase a net
Speaker 2: zero fantasy. It's time to stop treating energy like an
Speaker 2: ideological contest and start treating it as an affordability issue.
Speaker 2: It's time to have a serious conversation about nuclear energy,
Speaker 2: not because it's the only answer, but because refusing to
Speaker 2: even consider it isn't working. Australia remains the only G
Speaker 2: twenty nation with a ban on nuclear power. If nuclear
Speaker 2: can compete, well let it compete. If renewables are the cheapest,
Speaker 2: or then prove it. If gas has a role, use it.
Speaker 2: Take the politics out of energy. If Australians are too
Speaker 2: afraid to turn on the heater. The energy policy isn't working.
Speaker 2: If you thought you're SUPER belonged to you think again.
Speaker 2: The Prime Minister sees Australia's retirement savings as something that
Speaker 2: can be used to advance the nation's interests, telling the
Speaker 2: Australian Financial Review and Busy Superannuation roundtable, there is a
Speaker 2: real potential to see these funds as a national asset,
Speaker 2: a national asset. That's a dangerous way to think about
Speaker 2: money that Australians have spent a lifetime earning. We've already
Speaker 2: seen changes to the tax rules and now the Prime
Speaker 2: Minister is openly describing Australian's retirement savings as a national
Speaker 2: asset that should help deliver national objectives and that should
Speaker 2: concern everyone. Opposition Leader Angus Taylor says Australians do observe
Speaker 2: answers about exactly what the government will do.
Speaker 8: What is his plan with Australian Super.
Speaker 3: Is he going to follow the lead that we've seen
Speaker 3: from Wayne Swan in recent days.
Speaker 8: Superannuation is Australian's money.
Speaker 3: It's not the government's money, it's not union officials' money.
Speaker 3: It's Australian's money and we will always respect that.
Speaker 2: And it's not just the Coalition raising the alarm. Westpac
Speaker 2: CEO Anthony Miller delivered a blunt warning saying, don't touch
Speaker 2: the super complex, don't direct it, don't tell it where
Speaker 2: to go. And mister Miller further said, let's make sure
Speaker 2: these funds understand the responsibility they have and that the
Speaker 2: governance is there. Liquidity is not a risk class that
Speaker 2: the super complex has ever had to worry about, because
Speaker 2: all they ever had was money coming in. And he's
Speaker 2: exactly right. Super funds have one job, maximize returns for members,
Speaker 2: not governments. Once governments think your retirement saving should serve
Speaker 2: the national interest, this definition will never stop expanding. Australians
Speaker 2: don't spend years building their retirement nest egg so politicians
Speaker 2: can use it as a diplomatic bargaining chip. Your super
Speaker 2: isn't another pool of money for governments to steer because
Speaker 2: they're run out of ideas. It belongs to the people
Speaker 2: who earnt it. If an investment stacks up commercially, super
Speaker 2: fund should absolutely invest because it's the right investment, not
Speaker 2: because it's the government's choice. And that's the difference. Your
Speaker 2: super doesn't belong to Canberra. It belongs to you. Well,
Speaker 2: let's head to Canberra now for tonight's political headlines with
Speaker 2: Sky News political reporter Camredden.
Speaker 11: Meeting with small business in Victoria. As we do, the
Speaker 11: Liberal leadership team is again consumed by party business.
Speaker 6: The most important thing is that the Liberal Party is
Speaker 6: ready to fight elections.
Speaker 11: A Route and Branch review run by Senator James McGrath
Speaker 11: calls out the party's failure to attract young migrants and
Speaker 11: female voters.
Speaker 4: The Liberal Party needs to make itself a campaign machine,
Speaker 4: a political machine for the twenty first century.
Speaker 11: It notes Labour's gender quotas have produced a party room
Speaker 11: that's more than fifty percent female, while for the Liberals
Speaker 11: it's less than a third.
Speaker 6: We'll consider all of the options that are put out there.
Speaker 11: But Angus Taylor has seemingly made up his mind.
Speaker 3: I've never supported any quotas at all, but what I
Speaker 3: do support. What I do support is more great people
Speaker 3: joining the Liberal Party.
Speaker 11: Instead turning to comedian Dave Hughes for a pep talk
Speaker 11: on Labour's tax reforms.
Speaker 9: Go on Disena World, on Albo World, on Jim Idiots.
Speaker 11: The liberals second internal review since the election isn't revolutionary.
Speaker 11: Many of these ideas have been proposed and debated before,
Speaker 11: but ever at a time with the party at such
Speaker 11: a low ebb and facing an existential threat such as
Speaker 11: the one posed by One Nation. Even as one of
Speaker 11: Pauline Hanson's lieutenants comes under fire for pedaling conspiracies, I'm
Speaker 11: open to there being kemprouse in Australia.
Speaker 4: I have never denied it.
Speaker 3: The globalists are entrenched in Ukraine and the Russia was
Speaker 3: controlled by the globalist.
Speaker 11: Senator Malcolm Roberts controversial comments include praise for American conspiracy
Speaker 11: theorist Alex Jones and re sharing an anti Semitic image
Speaker 11: on social media in twenty twenty four, triggering calls for
Speaker 11: his resignation.
Speaker 3: And the question here for Pauline Hansen is what is
Speaker 3: she going to do about it?
Speaker 11: According to Barnaby Joyce, not much.
Speaker 3: We make our opinions by what people put forward.
Speaker 8: I'm not here to start carpeting, Malcolm.
Speaker 12: I'm not going to do that.
Speaker 11: Cameron Reddin's Sky News Canberra.
Speaker 2: Before we jump into tonight's panel, Federal Liberal MP Tony
Speaker 2: Passen was meant to join us tonight, but sadly Tony
Speaker 2: and one of his staffers were involved in a boat
Speaker 2: accident today in Tasmania. The accident occurred while they were
Speaker 2: traveling with fellow Liberal state MP Gavin Pearce and his
Speaker 2: staff members as they were coming back from a tour
Speaker 2: of the oyster farm in Baker's Beach. Tony received medical attention,
Speaker 2: but his office told us he's okay, which is great news,
Speaker 2: but for obvious reasons, he had to cancel for tonight,
Speaker 2: with his first priority being the well being of his staffer,
Speaker 2: who we understand remains in hospital. Of course, our thoughts
Speaker 2: are with all involved. Well, let's bring in now Sky
Speaker 2: News contributor Carolie Katz and Barnas and Sky News host
Speaker 2: and Daily Telegraph National affairs editor James Morrow. Welcome to
Speaker 2: you both. Look, I do want to just start with
Speaker 2: quotas and I'm interested to get the opinions from both
Speaker 2: of you. Caroly, what's your view on quotas within the
Speaker 2: Liberal Party.
Speaker 7: I'm a no.
Speaker 5: I'm definitely not for quotas at all. You don't want
Speaker 5: to be known as getting it just because you're the
Speaker 5: woman or just because you're the man. You want to
Speaker 5: be the best person for the job, and the more
Speaker 5: time that is wasted on quotas and the need for them,
Speaker 5: the less time is spent on actually getting the right
Speaker 5: people with merit. There's a lot of reasons that people
Speaker 5: go into politics. It is a very rough career and industry.
Speaker 5: You do need a thick skin to go into it.
Speaker 5: But the end of the day, going with quotas, it
Speaker 5: just runs the risk of putting the wrong people in
Speaker 5: the wrong job. So I'm with Angus Taylor on this one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you there too. Caro Lee James,
Speaker 2: what's your view?
Speaker 12: Yeah, Well, you know, the only thing that the Liberal
Speaker 12: Party can do that can they can do worse than
Speaker 12: talking about one nation is talking about themselves. And the
Speaker 12: longer they start getting bogged down and these sorts of
Speaker 12: questions about quotas for female MPs or pre selections, the
Speaker 12: less they are talking about policy. You know, I'm sorry,
Speaker 12: but the gender mix of the party room doesn't do
Speaker 12: anything about the cost of living, It doesn't do anything
Speaker 12: about this confiscatory, redistributionist socialist government, It doesn't do anything
Speaker 12: about the energy crisis in this country. It just looks
Speaker 12: like a bunch of politicians talking about themselves. And that
Speaker 12: is the last thing the Liberal Party needs. This debate
Speaker 12: is incredibly self indulgent. And I'll tell you what. The
Speaker 12: people who are on the other side of this question,
Speaker 12: you know, when are saying, oh, they need quotas. They
Speaker 12: you have more female MPs, they need a quota system
Speaker 12: to make this happen. And you know these are people
Speaker 12: who would also not vote Liberal in on a bet,
Speaker 12: you know. So it's being driven by people who actually
Speaker 12: don't really have the party's best interests at heart.
Speaker 2: And I think, Caroly, if we can look at policies,
Speaker 2: that's how you bring people back. And I know I've
Speaker 2: now been saying it quite a lot, but things like
Speaker 2: nailing the childcare policy that wouldn't just bring back women,
Speaker 2: that'll bring back men too because it will help families
Speaker 2: and by giving them choice.
Speaker 7: That's a liberal mentality and it's.
Speaker 2: That's what I think that they should be focusing on,
Speaker 2: not themselves and talking about quotas.
Speaker 5: Yeah, one hundred percent, you've been red hot on this
Speaker 5: jomy always and yeah, and the other policies, you know,
Speaker 5: those basics, getting back to basics, the cost of living,
Speaker 5: getting rid of this ridiculous renewable strategy that the Albaneze
Speaker 5: government continues to pursue that's put so many Australians and
Speaker 5: their families in economic poverty. Just getting back to those
Speaker 5: basics healthcare, crime, all those things that we sadly took
Speaker 5: for granted in the Howard Costello years where Australia had
Speaker 5: wonderful growth. A whole generation of people and new arrivals
Speaker 5: know nothing how Australia used to be. I know that
Speaker 5: we can't turn back the clock, but everything has just
Speaker 5: been thrown out of the window. And I think it
Speaker 5: just gets back to people being able to have money
Speaker 5: in their money and their budgets and their look after
Speaker 5: their families and take the pressure off the Australian taxpayer.
Speaker 5: There's so much wastage that's going on at the moment.
Speaker 5: It just has to stop.
Speaker 2: James, I want to talk to you about the Australian
Speaker 2: Chamber of Commerce who today has issued it a broadside
Speaker 2: to the Albanesi government warning that they're prolific spending unrealistic
Speaker 2: assumptions about the size of the public service will just
Speaker 2: continue to pile pressure onto the budget bottom line. And
Speaker 2: they're saying that government is just relying on artificial forward
Speaker 2: estimate accounting which can't be covered up, and it's also
Speaker 2: concerned about crowding out private investment. Do you think labor
Speaker 2: has just become too reliant now on a bigger public sector.
Speaker 12: Yes, yes they have. I mean, this is it's funny
Speaker 12: to see, you know, the business groups now coming to
Speaker 12: the party on this here. But this is just confirming
Speaker 12: stuff that we have already known. It had long been
Speaker 12: a Treasury mantra that every dollar of public sector spending
Speaker 12: crowds out a dollar of private sector spending. And you
Speaker 12: know that mathematics doesn't change. We have this hugely spending
Speaker 12: government here, and I was intrigued not just by what
Speaker 12: the ACCI said, but by what the Parliamentary Budget Office
Speaker 12: said this week and they said, you know this government
Speaker 12: the forward estimates, well they are let's just say optimistic,
Speaker 12: heroically optimistic when it comes to this idea that they'll
Speaker 12: be able to get on a glide path to get
Speaker 12: back out of death sitting into surplus in some states.
Speaker 12: They said, the public service is far too big and
Speaker 12: there's no chance that labor is actually going to cut it.
Speaker 12: I mean, can you imagine labor firing public service? I mean, seriously,
Speaker 12: that's not going to happen. They said, too reliant on
Speaker 12: income tax and pay as you go. Wage earners are
Speaker 12: the ones who are carrying so much of the can here,
Speaker 12: and there's no way they're going to be able to
Speaker 12: cut the ndis as much as they hope too. So yeah,
Speaker 12: they're completely reliant on all of this public spending. It
Speaker 12: is just you know, moving money from A to B,
Speaker 12: not growing the pie, and the govern clips the ticket
Speaker 12: every step of the way. It's a disgrace.
Speaker 2: Caroly Let's have a look at the Victorian Liberal Party,
Speaker 2: who from reports look like they will disendorse Moira Deeming
Speaker 2: and this could be just within a few days. And
Speaker 2: this follows her dropping support Supreme Court action against the
Speaker 2: party and it's just so disappointing. You know, I felt
Speaker 2: like Moira was a trail of laser at one point
Speaker 2: of women's rights, but somehow the wheels have come off,
Speaker 2: and I just wonder can the Liberals rise above all
Speaker 2: of this in time for the election.
Speaker 5: Well, look, you're right, it is. It's a headache that
Speaker 5: won't go away. It is like a sein Faild episode
Speaker 5: that keeps going on and on. The good thing is
Speaker 5: Jess Wilson has continued her tour around Victoria visiting all
Speaker 5: the eighty eight Lowerhouse electorates, and she is firmly focused
Speaker 5: on holding the Jacina Allen government to account, whether it's crime, potholes, healthcare,
Speaker 5: no matter what it is, she is firmly focused on
Speaker 5: the issues that mattered to all Victorians. But at the
Speaker 5: end of the day, with more Redeeming, you summed it up.
Speaker 5: She was seen as the great White Hope. But the
Speaker 5: problem is she did not. It's very difficult for me
Speaker 5: to say what I want to say, but basically I
Speaker 5: would just like to say, you are taking all the
Speaker 5: good work that the Victorian Liberal Party is doing in
Speaker 5: a holding the Ji Center Alan government to account.
Speaker 7: She alleged that Matthew.
Speaker 5: Guy had assaulted her that had put her in a
Speaker 5: headlock in less than twenty four hours after Matthew Guys
Speaker 5: sought the CCTV footage from the Macedonian Center on May
Speaker 5: twenty third, Victoria police said it didn't happen. He asked
Speaker 5: for a public apology. That is the least that he
Speaker 5: was actually owed. He's remained silent and we've had an
Speaker 5: Instagram video done by more Redeeming. We've now had a statement,
Speaker 5: We've had interstate a legal representation and it just becomes
Speaker 5: all murky. At the end of the day, it comes
Speaker 5: down to trust, and I believe that the Victorian Liberal
Speaker 5: Party cannot actually trust one of their colleagues.
Speaker 7: And as you say, all the.
Speaker 5: Good that Moira has done, and she was justified in
Speaker 5: the action against PURSUITO and she was justified in winning
Speaker 5: her pre selection when Ganesh Garassetti Danessh Garassetti was disindorsed.
Speaker 7: But this is ridiculous.
Speaker 5: If you don't know the difference between a headlock and
Speaker 5: a gentle hand on the back after you've just stood
Speaker 5: for a selfie, it's terrible. I mean, she says on
Speaker 5: her Instagram that she stands for freedom, fair laws and family.
Speaker 7: She hasn't given.
Speaker 5: Two hoots about how Matthew Guy feels with his freedom
Speaker 5: and his family. And I think rather than be disindorsed,
Speaker 5: the decent thing is just to step down and if
Speaker 5: you've got that much PTSD and those many issues from
Speaker 5: previous incidents, perhaps politics is not the career for you,
Speaker 5: or just apologize.
Speaker 2: If she just apologized, we would have all moved on
Speaker 2: from this discussions. Just say sorry, I got I got
Speaker 2: the wrong between a headlock and a collar cuff and
Speaker 2: you move on. But James, before we go, I do
Speaker 2: want to get your thoughts. The Prime Minister has broken
Speaker 2: his silence today around these podcast comments that have just
Speaker 2: we've all been talking about for a lot now, around
Speaker 2: the melons and Kylie Minogue. He said on the ABC
Speaker 2: today that there's two things you need to do if
Speaker 2: you've made a mistake. One is to apologize, and the
Speaker 2: second is to learn the lessons from it.
Speaker 7: And I've done both. Now what do you make of that?
Speaker 12: Well, you know, I mean, everybody thought it was really ridiculous,
Speaker 12: less so the comments, the fact that he went on
Speaker 12: this ridiculous podcast, and I hope that the lesson that
Speaker 12: the Prime Minister, the Prime Minister has learned here is
Speaker 12: stop trying to pander to the kids by going on
Speaker 12: these stupid podcasts. And while you're at it, tell all
Speaker 12: of your ministers and MPs stop doing the stupid TikTok
Speaker 12: dancers and all of these videos, all of this stuff.
Speaker 12: You know, I don't want to help puritanical about what
Speaker 12: he said. It was silly and you know, and all
Speaker 12: of that, but all of this stuff it's demeaning to
Speaker 12: the office. It's demeaning to the government. It's demeaning to
Speaker 12: Australia and it's demeaning to the audience that they're aiming
Speaker 12: for here, which is supposedly these young Australian voters who
Speaker 12: they take very seriously. But they can only be appealed
Speaker 12: to by going on you know, trashy, low rent podcasts
Speaker 12: and by doing TikTok dances about their latest piece of legislation.
Speaker 12: It's a joke.
Speaker 7: You're not wrong there.
Speaker 2: I will leave it for tonight, Carole and James, thank
Speaker 2: you so much. Well after the break, a closer look
Speaker 2: at the modeling released this week by the CSIRO. For
Speaker 2: the first time a government report acknowledges that labor's pushed
Speaker 2: to net zero will hit Australians in the back pocket.
Speaker 7: That's next.
Speaker 2: Well coming up questions over the role Qatar played and
Speaker 2: fueling the anti Israel culture on university campuses. But first,
Speaker 2: Australia's energy debate has been dominated by one promise renewables
Speaker 2: will deliver cheaper power. Although new CSIRO modeling suggests agreed
Speaker 2: with more coal and gas could cost around five percent
Speaker 2: less to run by twenty fifty than the current net
Speaker 2: zero path, the tradeoff would be significantly higher emissions. So
Speaker 2: is Australia being honest about the real cost of the
Speaker 2: energy transition. Let's bring in senior energy analysts at MST
Speaker 2: Financial Saul Kavanick, So welcome. Let's start with this CSIRO modeling.
Speaker 2: It is suggesting that agrid with more coal and gas
Speaker 2: could cost about five percent less by twenty fifty than
Speaker 2: one that is dominated by renewables. Does that undermine the
Speaker 2: claim that the current renewables only pathway is unquestionably the
Speaker 2: cheapest option.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 1: This Gen Cost Report, which is the main document outlining
Speaker 1: costs for power generation for the Australian government. This is
Speaker 1: a real watershed report because thank you to the pressure
Speaker 1: from yourselves and your colleagues and many organizations to be
Speaker 1: more honest about what the all in costs of the
Speaker 1: energy transition is. For the first time we have the
Speaker 1: CSIRO and the Australian Energy Market Operator actually looking to
Speaker 1: incorporate all of the costs within a metric because, as
Speaker 1: you know, the debate about electricity costs, particularly for renewables,
Speaker 1: has always relied on this report which showed that renewables
Speaker 1: are cheaper, but that never took into account the costs
Speaker 1: that the rise and renewables impose on the rest of
Speaker 1: the greed in terms of trans mission upgrades, lower capacity
Speaker 1: factors for other generation, et cetera. And this time they've
Speaker 1: got the system levelized cost of electricity, which is the
Speaker 1: first time they've done it, and what it shows is
Speaker 1: that under net zero pathways the cost is going to
Speaker 1: be between five percent and thirty nine percent higher then
Speaker 1: it would be under not having a net zero pathway.
Speaker 1: In particular, if you look at the two scenarios that
Speaker 1: they highlight as the most likely, it's our net zero
Speaker 1: pathway for electricity is going to result in between fourteen
Speaker 1: percent and twenty three percent higher costs than not having
Speaker 1: that zero. So this is the first time that the
Speaker 1: government's signature document is showing that there is going to
Speaker 1: be a cost for that zero in our electricity generation.
Speaker 1: That flies in the face of the narrative that we
Speaker 1: can have lower emissions and net zero and lower prices
Speaker 1: in the process, and it is a trade off involved here,
Speaker 1: and now we can start to have an honest debate
Speaker 1: about the value of that trade off and how willing
Speaker 1: are Australian's going to be to pay more to be
Speaker 1: complied with.
Speaker 2: Net zero and I guess the question then here is
Speaker 2: nuclear and how that then factors into our energy debate
Speaker 2: and our discussion, because the problem now is that we
Speaker 2: still can't have a proper debate when the moratorium is
Speaker 2: on one of these key sources and the government seems
Speaker 2: set that they're not going to remove it if it
Speaker 2: was lifted tomorrow, How realistically can a reactor be built here?
Speaker 7: Because I feel as though a lot of the.
Speaker 2: Claims when it comes to nuclear is that, oh, it's
Speaker 2: just too long, it's too expensive, But that doesn't really
Speaker 2: seem to be the case when you look at other
Speaker 2: countries around the world and what they're doing in the
Speaker 2: nuclear space.
Speaker 1: Well, the key thing to a nuclear timeframe, it's less
Speaker 1: about the time it will take to construct the plants,
Speaker 1: but it's all the precursors to that. So Australia need
Speaker 1: to put in play a regulatory regime for constructing nuclear
Speaker 1: the environment to do so and do so effectively, which
Speaker 1: then allows bills to happen in a cost effective and
Speaker 1: rapid manner. And I mean, I think it is fair
Speaker 1: to say, given track records by both sides of government here,
Speaker 1: you know, we can question about the government's competence to
Speaker 1: put in place such a framework, but what we are
Speaker 1: seeing from other places around the world is that it
Speaker 1: is possible. And I think the other part of this
Speaker 1: is we need to compare the timeframes for new nuclear
Speaker 1: and new generation with the alternatives. And what we're seeing
Speaker 1: from projects like Snowy Hydrome particular, but also things like
Speaker 1: offshore wind and these days even onshore solar and winded
Speaker 1: utility scale is the timeframes and cost involved are blowing
Speaker 1: out massively. The approvals for these projects are taking years
Speaker 1: longer than expected, and that's even with this extraordinary level
Speaker 1: of government support we've had under Labor under the Capacity
Speaker 1: Investment Scheme. So if we're going to start comparing apples
Speaker 1: for apples, particularly, we're going to take a longer term
Speaker 1: view about what we're going to do to regenerate our
Speaker 1: generation capabilities over the next twenty five years, there's certainly
Speaker 1: no case to say that nuclear should be excluded, and
Speaker 1: it could play a role. The Gen Cost Report itself
Speaker 1: highlights that nuclear they think is going to cost more,
Speaker 1: but if you look at the assumptions that underpin that,
Speaker 1: that's because they're assuming very high costs for the first
Speaker 1: couple of units. It doesn't factor in the cost reductions
Speaker 1: that come in after that within the window of which
Speaker 1: they're modeling. And if you were to do that, nuclear
Speaker 1: actually does start to look competitive alongside other generation technologies
Speaker 1: and with or without nuclear, and this makes the report
Speaker 1: makes it very clear with or without nuclear, a net
Speaker 1: zero pathway for the grid is still going to be
Speaker 1: significantly more expensive than not having that zero as a target.
Speaker 2: Also, there's a lot to unpack and I appreciate your insights.
Speaker 7: We'll get you on again soon. Thank you.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 2: After the break, university bosses faced the Royal Commission and
Speaker 2: admit they were unprepared for anti Israel encampments. Welcome back,
Speaker 2: it's great to have your company coming up. The US
Speaker 2: has launched a wave of strikes against Iran after they
Speaker 2: reimposed a naval blockade. More on that with the International Panel,
Speaker 2: but first with universities under the microscope at the Royal
Speaker 2: Commission questions tonight over Qatar and its role in fueling
Speaker 2: the anti Israel culture on campuses.
Speaker 13: It's no accident that all of the protests on all
Speaker 13: of the unicampuses across Australia sound like they have the
Speaker 13: same script. Yet no one is asking the questions who
Speaker 13: helped these students write the script?
Speaker 2: Money Peerlstein is a prominent advocate against anti Semitism and
Speaker 2: joins me, Now, Money, it's great to see you. University bosses, yes,
Speaker 2: admitted they weren't prepared for the anti Israel encampments, failing
Speaker 2: to recognize the impact. But you've been arguing that this
Speaker 2: issue runs far deeper than simply student protests on campus.
Speaker 7: What can you tell us.
Speaker 6: Well, we've had lots of insipid apologies over the last
Speaker 6: couple of days, and I really fear that the Royal
Speaker 6: Commission may not cover the big picture issue here and
Speaker 6: the true root of the problem, because this has been
Speaker 6: framed as a problem that has arisen on university campuses
Speaker 6: since October the seventh, twenty twenty three, but it's actually
Speaker 6: been a growing issue for decades on university campuses throughout
Speaker 6: Australia and the West. We've had foreign regimes creating campaigns
Speaker 6: which have framed Israel as an oppressor and Palestinians as
Speaker 6: the oppressed for many, many decades. And you know, these
Speaker 6: regimes are encouraging students to believe that they are humanitarians.
Speaker 6: But if they are true humanitarians. Why are they never
Speaker 6: talking about Syria or Sudan or the Vegas in China.
Speaker 6: The only conflict we ever hear about is Israel and Gaza.
Speaker 6: And I do you know, I think that I think, yeah,
Speaker 6: we only hear about the one conflict and they should
Speaker 6: have had a long time to realize that this has
Speaker 6: been a growing issue. And I think we if we
Speaker 6: look at every single encampment, if we look at every
Speaker 6: single protest, they all do sound the same, not just
Speaker 6: in Australia but globally. It's like they are reading from
Speaker 6: a script, these students, and we need to ask who
Speaker 6: is writing the script for them. But we know that
Speaker 6: there are regimes who have a vested interest in helping
Speaker 6: students bring down Israel.
Speaker 2: Well, tell us about some of that evidence that you
Speaker 2: have uncovered that countries like tar have been using funding
Speaker 2: partnerships or soft power to really shape the debate on
Speaker 2: Western campuses.
Speaker 6: In Australia, it is a softer power. But in America,
Speaker 6: America knows that Qatar is the largest foreign funder of
Speaker 6: tertiary education. They have sunk sixty two and a half
Speaker 6: billion dollars into the American university system in Australia. We
Speaker 6: haven't uncovered that yet. It is presented in a much
Speaker 6: softer way. It's labeled collaborative research, academic alliances. It's a
Speaker 6: much it's just it's a much less aggressive form of funding.
Speaker 6: But we know that there are twenty Australia, twenty Australian
Speaker 6: universities that have links with Katari institutions and we only
Speaker 6: have forty two universities in this country. Sydney University alone
Speaker 6: had sixty five million dollars in international collaborative funds last
Speaker 6: year and that's you know, that's twice what the New
Speaker 6: South Wales government gave the university in funding. We know
Speaker 6: that the Sydney University, that Sydney University sent an academic
Speaker 6: to Iran the very same week that we were expelling
Speaker 6: our Iranian ambassador because of attacks the IRGC were found
Speaker 6: to have caused on Australian soil. So we do need
Speaker 6: to be looking at countries like Qatar who housed UMAs
Speaker 6: operatives while this war has been going on. We do
Speaker 6: need to look at the IRGC and at these kinds
Speaker 6: of regimes and ask ourselves what role they are playing
Speaker 6: in this disruption on Australian university campuses.
Speaker 2: Manie, I'd love to get your thoughts on the Royal
Speaker 2: Commission that's obviously underway at the moment and whether or
Speaker 2: not you think this will lead to lasting change or
Speaker 2: do you feel that we're missing an opportunity here to
Speaker 2: really delve into the history of anti Semitism that was
Speaker 2: starting to fester away before October seven and then that's
Speaker 2: when it really escalated from there on.
Speaker 6: I think we're very lucky that we have a Royal
Speaker 6: Commission where the only country in the world that is
Speaker 6: investigating issues in the way that we are into antisemitism.
Speaker 6: You know, other countries had the same problems throughout the
Speaker 6: West and they're not researching it and deep diving into
Speaker 6: it the way we are. But we only have an
Speaker 6: eleven month period to get to the bottom of this,
Speaker 6: and I really fear that that is not enough time
Speaker 6: to look beyond the specifics of lived experience. And that's
Speaker 6: what we're seeing with the Commission. We're seeing interviews where
Speaker 6: people are giving evidence about their lived experience and that
Speaker 6: doesn't bring into question the broader issues, you know, the
Speaker 6: generational change, decades of growing disruption on university campuses, decades
Speaker 6: of potential media bias, decades of a woke, progressive culture
Speaker 6: that has wanted to see things in a very binary way.
Speaker 6: So I am I'm worried that we won't see the
Speaker 6: change that we need to in such a short time.
Speaker 2: And just tell us what the impact is having at
Speaker 2: the moment on the Jewish community as you're going through
Speaker 2: the Royal Commission and having to listen to the harrowing testimony,
Speaker 2: and no doubt you witness yourself things on the street
Speaker 2: and what you've experienced in.
Speaker 7: Your own life.
Speaker 2: But just tell us about the feeling amongst the community
Speaker 2: as you're reliving and hearing a lot of these stories, Jamie.
Speaker 6: The feeling is an utter sadness. Some people are depressed.
Speaker 6: People come up to me in the street everyday, strangers
Speaker 6: who have never met, and many of them cry, and
Speaker 6: I've never met them before. When we're hearing stories about
Speaker 6: Jewish hospital patients feeling that they cannot put their religious
Speaker 6: identity on their admission forms because they are scared for
Speaker 6: their safety. When we're hearing about what our children go
Speaker 6: through on university campuses, and I have a university age child,
Speaker 6: and I know what I'm sending him off to It
Speaker 6: is absolutely heartbreaking. I cannot believe that this is the
Speaker 6: Australia that I grew up in.
Speaker 7: And what about your child?
Speaker 2: Has he had any issues himself when he goes on
Speaker 2: to university campuses or being a child that don't want
Speaker 2: to burden you with some of the issues that they're facing.
Speaker 6: He doesn't say a lot because he's scared it will
Speaker 6: end up on an Instagram reel. But a lot of
Speaker 6: his friends tell me stories. And I've met with members
Speaker 6: of the Australian Union of Jewish Students, so I've heard
Speaker 6: about students who have needed to be escorted to their
Speaker 6: lecture because they're worried about their safety. I've spoken to
Speaker 6: one student who has a panic button in case she
Speaker 6: has some problems getting to lectures. That there is more
Speaker 6: than one university campus in this country that has what
Speaker 6: they call a safe room where Jewish students can lock
Speaker 6: themselves in the room if they feel that they're being harassed.
Speaker 6: I've heard about lectures where lecturers have put up vote
Speaker 6: for Gaza on screens. I've heard about lectures where there
Speaker 6: have been a lot of anti Israel comments online from
Speaker 6: students and from lecturersm And you know. I just think
Speaker 6: that a non Jewish student or a non Jewish staff
Speaker 6: member can't understand how triggering that is. If you are
Speaker 6: a student sitting in a lecture thinking that you could
Speaker 6: be demonized just because you are Jewish and you happen
Speaker 6: to like Israel II.
Speaker 7: It's just it's awful.
Speaker 2: I find listening to the stories just so sad. The
Speaker 2: fact that students need to have a safe room so
Speaker 2: that they can escape what they're experiencing.
Speaker 7: This is Australia in twenty two six. It's just awful. Money.
Speaker 7: I appreciate you coming on