WEBVTT - The Courage to Heal - Kellie Carter-Bell 0:00:05.881 --> 0:00:14.121 Appote production. This podcast contains references to extreme physical violence 0:00:14.441 --> 0:00:18.721 and psychological trauma. It is not recommended for younger audiences 0:00:19.161 --> 0:00:27.561 and listener discretion is advised. Welcome to Real Crime with 0:00:27.601 --> 0:00:31.881 Adam Shand I'm your host Adam Shand. Kelly Carterbell is 0:00:31.881 --> 0:00:35.361 a walking, talking example of the power of resilience and love. 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:39.321 She really should be dead after what she's gone through 0:00:39.681 --> 0:00:43.760 after being attacked by her husband in her workplace. This 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:46.801 had followed years of dangerous liaisons in the criminal world. 0:00:47.361 --> 0:00:51.040 She was one of four sisters. She's the sole survivor, 0:00:51.441 --> 0:00:56.921 having lost all three siblings to drugs. Remarkably, she's also 0:00:56.921 --> 0:00:59.521 the daughter of a police officer who made a move 0:00:59.601 --> 0:01:02.441 on her mum while her criminal husband was in jail. 0:01:03.161 --> 0:01:06.321 That copper he disappeared when the crook came out of jail. 0:01:07.641 --> 0:01:10.280 I was lucky enough to be able to reunite Kelly 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:14.241 with her dad after forty years. How do I say this? 0:01:14.721 --> 0:01:15.360 I found him? 0:01:16.081 --> 0:01:16.241 Oh? 0:01:20.121 --> 0:01:20.721 Is he wise? 0:01:21.321 --> 0:01:22.080 Yeah? He is. 0:01:22.161 --> 0:01:33.041 I'm sorry that I've been waiting for that for forty 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:33.920 six years. 0:01:35.161 --> 0:01:37.840 This was a lucky break for kell and she deserved it, 0:01:38.161 --> 0:01:40.641 and she hasn't looked back. She's now an advocate for 0:01:40.681 --> 0:01:44.481 women suffering domestic violence, and she's in the Real Crime 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.921 studio to tell her story. Get a kel good. 0:01:47.841 --> 0:01:54.601 A Adam, How's things are amazing. The amazing thing is 0:01:55.001 --> 0:01:58.001 what left me to be amazing is that missing piece 0:01:58.081 --> 0:02:02.241 in the puzzle, which was my dad. And when I 0:02:02.561 --> 0:02:08.481 connected with him, myself worth, my confidence, my love for myself. 0:02:09.241 --> 0:02:12.201 It made me realize that I am a lovable human 0:02:12.241 --> 0:02:13.801 being who deserves to be loved. 0:02:14.481 --> 0:02:17.121 It was one of the most rewarding things of Mike. 0:02:17.161 --> 0:02:18.721 When people ask me what story is that? I think 0:02:18.721 --> 0:02:21.041 it really memorable that was one of them, because what 0:02:21.081 --> 0:02:23.840 I couldn't believe was that you'd done interviews with other 0:02:23.921 --> 0:02:27.761 journalists about all your adventures in the underworld with your 0:02:27.841 --> 0:02:31.321 various partners and your husband, and no one had asked 0:02:31.361 --> 0:02:33.720 you what happened to your father. You actually bowled me 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:36.361 up in an antique store in South Melbourne here and 0:02:36.401 --> 0:02:38.761 you said, I've got a story for you. And when 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.400 you started chatting, you've talked about your dad. I've gone like, hey, 0:02:41.721 --> 0:02:44.440 why hasn't someone found this bloke? It didn't take me long. 0:02:44.601 --> 0:02:46.841 It turned out, funnily enough that when I was in 0:02:46.841 --> 0:02:49.001 Perth doing a radio show. He used to ring up 0:02:49.001 --> 0:02:50.681 to the show, so I'd already spoken him with. One 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:53.041 of those things was destiny. But you deserve to break 0:02:53.041 --> 0:02:57.681 because you've been through the absolute meal. Let's talk about 0:02:57.800 --> 0:02:58.441 where you began. 0:03:00.081 --> 0:03:04.641 Where I began was the youngest I can remember, was 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:08.721 probably being about four years old and watching mumby beaten 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:14.641 by my sister's father. There was love, there was dinners cooked, 0:03:15.561 --> 0:03:19.641 there was connection, there was routine when Dad was around. 0:03:20.161 --> 0:03:22.161 All that went out the window as soon as the 0:03:22.281 --> 0:03:25.960 roles had to be reversed when my sister's father would 0:03:26.001 --> 0:03:30.041 be released from prison. So I can remember sitting at 0:03:30.081 --> 0:03:33.800 windows at that age with Mum waiting to see whether 0:03:33.881 --> 0:03:37.121 Snookie was going to be drunk or not, and whether 0:03:37.161 --> 0:03:39.721 that mean a beating for her or not. 0:03:40.601 --> 0:03:43.201 Snooky the Crook sounds like a lovable, cuddly person, but 0:03:43.241 --> 0:03:43.961 he was far from that. 0:03:44.401 --> 0:03:50.201 Yeah, definitely, to some people he might be that, but 0:03:50.281 --> 0:03:54.041 to me he was I was like a pawn almost. 0:03:54.801 --> 0:03:59.041 I was sometimes made to call him Dad. I remember 0:03:59.081 --> 0:04:02.001 one day he bought me a bike for my birthday, 0:04:02.761 --> 0:04:06.401 but when I think back, that was probably because of 0:04:06.441 --> 0:04:11.241 what happened prior the night before, the day before, or 0:04:12.041 --> 0:04:15.561 it was like, Yeah, it was like a piece of 0:04:16.201 --> 0:04:21.121 meat almost, you know, from from a nice life to 0:04:21.281 --> 0:04:25.080 a shitty, shitty, shitty life. And when Dad disappeared that 0:04:25.201 --> 0:04:31.400 life the shitty shitty shittiness lasted until I was I 0:04:31.481 --> 0:04:36.200 broke the cycle from being hit twenty years ago. But 0:04:36.401 --> 0:04:40.481 the recovery of this and what I've lived is daily. 0:04:40.961 --> 0:04:46.640 Because all you saw was a criminal role model for men, 0:04:47.281 --> 0:04:50.361 and you ended up dating a succession of Underworld characters, 0:04:50.361 --> 0:04:52.041 some of the big names that we all know, like 0:04:52.081 --> 0:04:54.441 Mark Moran was a good friend of yours and other 0:04:54.481 --> 0:04:57.361 people like that. Jed Horton. I think you knew all those, 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:01.881 all those Della they're all dead, Yeah, they're all dead. 0:05:03.521 --> 0:05:05.521 Like when I was thinking about coming into do this 0:05:05.721 --> 0:05:09.121 with you, Adam, I remember I would have been about 0:05:09.361 --> 0:05:13.361 let's say eight or nine, and there was a few 0:05:14.281 --> 0:05:20.401 bank robbers in Jaiker Jiker and Mum and I literally 0:05:20.521 --> 0:05:23.361 smuggled a gun in there. We had to put it 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:26.200 on top of a locker. I'm not sure whether I've 0:05:26.201 --> 0:05:28.880 told you the story about my sister Sissy being in 0:05:28.961 --> 0:05:31.921 Pentridge and telling me I have to go and see 0:05:31.921 --> 0:05:35.281 her husband's brother Peter, because he's going to give me 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:38.960 a letter to give to her, but I have to 0:05:39.081 --> 0:05:42.401 hide it. And I got to Peter's house and he said, 0:05:42.401 --> 0:05:44.441 do you know what you're doing. I was fourteen years 0:05:44.481 --> 0:05:47.561 of age. Do you know what you're doing? And I said, yeah, 0:05:47.561 --> 0:05:51.200 I'm taking a letter into my sister. And he handed 0:05:51.241 --> 0:05:55.361 me a bag of orange powder. I put it up 0:05:55.401 --> 0:05:58.241 my sleeve. I had a watch on and the old 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:00.841 days with the scanners when you went to the prison 0:06:00.921 --> 0:06:04.760 and it beat, and thank goodness, it was my watch. 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.361 So there was things like that that was cleaning up 0:06:09.401 --> 0:06:12.881 a murder after Dennis had killed the guy in the barrel, 0:06:12.961 --> 0:06:16.161 like literally painting walls, ripping up. 0:06:16.121 --> 0:06:20.320 Carpet because you'd fallen in with Dennis Allen and his crew. 0:06:20.401 --> 0:06:22.520 And that kath pet and Gill down there in Cremorn, 0:06:23.241 --> 0:06:26.401 and I think you're talking about Anton Kenny. That's Hill's 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:29.201 Angel who was murdered inside Dennis Allen's house. That was 0:06:29.241 --> 0:06:31.801 a charnel house that placed there several murders in there. 0:06:31.921 --> 0:06:36.601 There certainly were, yes, certainly, and it just fascinates me 0:06:36.761 --> 0:06:40.561 to think that that was the norm. You know, I 0:06:40.601 --> 0:06:43.681 hear the barrel being found in the river, and I 0:06:43.721 --> 0:06:47.281 know it's my brother in law. And it's just normal. 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.681 I mean prior to that, like we've spoken about my 0:06:52.241 --> 0:06:56.681 childhood sexual assault that I wasn't aware of until I've 0:06:56.721 --> 0:07:01.161 done an amazing boxing program and that consisted of my 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:06.641 first time was four, my next time was eight, and 0:07:06.681 --> 0:07:12.081 then gang rate from eleven to thirteen by the Carlton Boys. 0:07:13.161 --> 0:07:19.121 So I didn't know I was almost worthless or lovable 0:07:20.121 --> 0:07:22.721 until my dad come into my life. 0:07:23.241 --> 0:07:25.721 You know what, You've never told me that part of 0:07:25.761 --> 0:07:28.641 the story. No, And it chills me to my bones. 0:07:28.681 --> 0:07:30.921 That's just I already knew you'd been through a lot, 0:07:30.921 --> 0:07:33.121 but that's just beyond. 0:07:32.961 --> 0:07:37.481 Imagining it is it is? But like I always say, 0:07:37.481 --> 0:07:41.161 I'm the chosen one, aren't I? Why why? And I 0:07:41.241 --> 0:07:44.921 have the courage to speak and my passion is to 0:07:45.081 --> 0:07:50.761 pay my lifetime of abuse forward. Like why did I 0:07:50.921 --> 0:07:55.041 end up like that? Is it Dad's brains and Mum's strength. 0:07:56.321 --> 0:07:57.081 I'm not sure. 0:07:57.401 --> 0:07:59.561 I think the religious people talk about God gives us 0:07:59.601 --> 0:08:02.121 our own burden to carry because he knows we're strong enough, 0:08:02.161 --> 0:08:03.081 and you've proven that. 0:08:03.441 --> 0:08:04.561 Yeah, definitely. 0:08:05.121 --> 0:08:08.281 At the same time, and I don't want to overshadow Natroman, 0:08:08.321 --> 0:08:12.961 You've definitely suffered, But being a partner to an underworld 0:08:13.001 --> 0:08:17.081 figure had a certain racy, thrilling element to it. 0:08:17.841 --> 0:08:21.881 Try to describe that, Oh, it definitely did. Going from 0:08:21.881 --> 0:08:26.681 the days to oh where did I start? Would have 0:08:26.681 --> 0:08:31.921 been Olfonse, Mark Jason. After the gang rate was happening, 0:08:31.961 --> 0:08:35.160 Mark sort of took me under his wing and tried 0:08:35.201 --> 0:08:37.961 to show me a different way. Mike Moran, Yes, didn't 0:08:37.961 --> 0:08:40.881 abuse me or anything like that. That went on to 0:08:41.241 --> 0:08:44.281 you know, nightclubbing at fifteen, like I said, with ol 0:08:44.321 --> 0:08:48.001 Fonts and then people the doors just open, you know. 0:08:48.001 --> 0:08:50.281 Alphonse Gangitana, the Black Prince of leg On Street. 0:08:50.481 --> 0:08:53.041 That's it. That's it. And now the doors of the 0:08:53.081 --> 0:08:55.641 nightclub just open. The drinks are lined up, the drugs 0:08:55.641 --> 0:09:00.041 are there, whatever you want, you know, bags of diamonds 0:09:00.161 --> 0:09:03.881 can come into the Jaiker Jaiker Hotel, you name it. 0:09:04.521 --> 0:09:06.761 And there's an other thing, Adam. When I was about 0:09:07.761 --> 0:09:12.121 I would have been just after Gary Abdallah was murdered. No, 0:09:12.281 --> 0:09:14.841 Gary Abdallah was still alive actually because he ended up 0:09:14.881 --> 0:09:18.081 with the gun. I don't know whether this is going 0:09:18.121 --> 0:09:20.601 to get me in trouble or not, but I picked 0:09:20.681 --> 0:09:26.401 up a policeman's gun outside Ragan's nightclub, in Essendon. I 0:09:26.481 --> 0:09:30.041 give that gun to Gary ab Della. Now I'm not 0:09:30.081 --> 0:09:33.361 sure what that was used for or what that was 0:09:33.481 --> 0:09:39.761 used in afterwards, Like honestly, I would have been maybe 0:09:39.801 --> 0:09:42.961 fifteen or sixteen by this stage. 0:09:42.921 --> 0:09:46.921 Because Abdellah was part of the Flemington crew of armed robbers, 0:09:46.921 --> 0:09:50.321 including Victor Pierce, Graham Jensen and a whole bunch of others, 0:09:50.361 --> 0:09:53.801 and they obviously went on to infamy. After Graham Jensen 0:09:53.881 --> 0:09:55.881 was killed by police, they went on to kill two 0:09:55.921 --> 0:09:58.961 police officers in Wall Street, South Era. That's right, But 0:09:59.521 --> 0:10:02.081 you wonder whether that might have been part of that. 0:10:03.121 --> 0:10:07.241 Yeah, I often wonder where that ended up, like the 0:10:07.281 --> 0:10:10.681 gun from h Division. And imagine if that bag of 0:10:10.681 --> 0:10:13.721 orange heroin, the highest grade of heroin that's ever been 0:10:13.761 --> 0:10:15.601 in Australia, had killed. 0:10:15.361 --> 0:10:18.401 My sisters, because you lost all three. 0:10:19.241 --> 0:10:21.921 In the end, Yes, in the end, one hung herself, 0:10:23.441 --> 0:10:29.241 Sissy who married Dennis in prison. Tammy died in a 0:10:29.281 --> 0:10:34.521 street in Carlton in a car, and Carrie died eleven 0:10:34.561 --> 0:10:39.281 hours after being released from prison. But she did rob 0:10:39.401 --> 0:10:44.681 the Chinese mafia, so we're not sure whether she had 0:10:44.681 --> 0:10:45.441 a hot shot or. 0:10:45.401 --> 0:10:47.921 Not hot shot being someone administered that to her, to 0:10:48.041 --> 0:10:48.961 kill her, to murder her. 0:10:49.161 --> 0:10:51.361 Yeah, footscrade, train station, car park. 0:10:51.761 --> 0:10:54.241 And the problem is, back in those days, someone like 0:10:54.281 --> 0:10:57.001 your sister, they would be hard pressed to get a 0:10:57.041 --> 0:10:58.001 proper investigation. 0:10:58.281 --> 0:11:02.761 Oh yeah, it's like they were just they weren't treated 0:11:02.801 --> 0:11:05.881 as humans back then, because Heroin added, it's not like 0:11:05.921 --> 0:11:11.201 it is today. You know, I could just being tormented 0:11:11.241 --> 0:11:15.201 and laughed at. And I had a dream that a 0:11:15.241 --> 0:11:18.721 friend's dad died, and silly me went to school and 0:11:18.801 --> 0:11:21.081 told her I've never met the man in my life. 0:11:21.121 --> 0:11:23.841 And the next day he fell asleep at the wheel 0:11:23.881 --> 0:11:27.041 of his truck and died. So I was once again 0:11:27.081 --> 0:11:30.161 after being the gang right. Then it went on to 0:11:30.281 --> 0:11:34.681 bullying because everyone blamed me for her dad dying. And 0:11:34.721 --> 0:11:40.521 then by thirteen, first partner, first black eye. 0:11:39.601 --> 0:11:42.881 The start of unspeakable violence because you went from the 0:11:42.921 --> 0:11:45.441 frying pan into the fire because you ended up hooking 0:11:45.561 --> 0:11:48.361 up with a man named Peter yep and what was 0:11:48.361 --> 0:11:49.001 his background? 0:11:49.761 --> 0:11:52.681 Watch dad beat mum, so thought it was okay to 0:11:52.761 --> 0:11:56.601 do it. Buddy's brother was an AFL footballer. So your 0:11:56.681 --> 0:12:01.161 choices are what make the difference. As I've learned, as 0:12:01.201 --> 0:12:05.721 I'm recovering what I've worked out with perpetrators people with 0:12:05.801 --> 0:12:11.561 narcissism disorder. They don't change, you have to. I'm still 0:12:12.801 --> 0:12:17.161 to this day being tormented by my last partner to 0:12:17.841 --> 0:12:21.601 his daughter, a twenty two year old that he's now 0:12:21.641 --> 0:12:25.121 turned the abuse to her. Yeah. 0:12:25.241 --> 0:12:26.961 Yeah, it's an endless cycle. 0:12:27.201 --> 0:12:28.281 It is, it is. 0:12:28.481 --> 0:12:31.761 Yeah, and let's go back to Peter though. Yep, he 0:12:32.441 --> 0:12:35.321 you discovered later. There was happy times in the beginning, 0:12:35.361 --> 0:12:37.321 I presume, but there was always violence. 0:12:37.521 --> 0:12:41.521 Yeah. Yeah. So first black Eye at thirteen, like there, 0:12:41.561 --> 0:12:45.321 I had to He was so possessed with me that 0:12:45.481 --> 0:12:48.921 I had to ride my pushbike from Princess Hill High 0:12:48.921 --> 0:12:51.521 School to Melbourne UNI every lunch time because that's where 0:12:51.561 --> 0:12:54.481 mum worked, to sit with her. So I couldn't speak 0:12:54.481 --> 0:12:58.161 to anyone, couldn't look at anyone at school, and then 0:12:58.321 --> 0:13:01.761 ride back within forty five minutes or something. You know, 0:13:02.001 --> 0:13:05.601 all my lunch money went to him black Eyes. Often 0:13:06.601 --> 0:13:10.241 going to school with black Eyes, Adam, like the duty 0:13:10.281 --> 0:13:14.801 of care being gang raped. I got pregnant and the 0:13:14.881 --> 0:13:18.401 school knew and they called me in the office and 0:13:18.481 --> 0:13:21.681 nothing has ever been done. I went to school with 0:13:21.721 --> 0:13:27.361 black eyes, no duty of care, and I'm chasing you know, 0:13:27.601 --> 0:13:33.521 chasing some kind of reimbursement for what I've been through 0:13:33.921 --> 0:13:36.721 in school and them knowing what was happening. It was 0:13:36.761 --> 0:13:40.601 happening at lunch time, but not on school grounds. 0:13:40.961 --> 0:13:44.441 So you think you might go a financial compensation hopefully. Well, 0:13:44.441 --> 0:13:46.241 I think that's quite reasonable. I mean, there is a 0:13:46.321 --> 0:13:48.521 duty of care there, and there was even back then 0:13:48.521 --> 0:13:50.801 there was a thing called the police. Yes, who could 0:13:50.801 --> 0:13:52.841 have been called in. Yeah, I mean I think back 0:13:52.921 --> 0:13:55.521 in those days though, I feel like violence against young 0:13:55.521 --> 0:13:58.081 women in particular was almost like a social welfare issue 0:13:58.521 --> 0:13:59.321 rather than a crime. 0:13:59.521 --> 0:14:03.241 Yes, exactly. In the end, with Peter, to get away 0:14:03.241 --> 0:14:05.801 from him, I used to have to have a taxi 0:14:05.841 --> 0:14:09.361 waiting outside the school and get a taxi quickly home 0:14:09.441 --> 0:14:13.441 to the Carlton flat and run up the stairs. But 0:14:13.561 --> 0:14:15.921 then there might be two nights later where he'd be 0:14:16.001 --> 0:14:19.161 outside at two in the morning, I'd go downstairs to 0:14:19.281 --> 0:14:21.801 him and wake up with two black eyes and no 0:14:21.961 --> 0:14:22.961 questions asked. 0:14:25.041 --> 0:14:27.081 So how did you finally get away from that relationship? 0:14:29.881 --> 0:14:33.801 When I think about it, it's I'm not sure. I 0:14:33.841 --> 0:14:37.241 think I realized that there was more to life and 0:14:37.361 --> 0:14:40.601 I wanted to do something with myself, like I was 0:14:40.681 --> 0:14:45.881 so desperate at school, I called my woodwork teacher dad, Like, 0:14:46.001 --> 0:14:50.761 I was so desperate for love. That's all I ever wanted, 0:14:52.201 --> 0:14:54.601 and that's what I chase, But I chased it with 0:14:54.681 --> 0:14:57.721 the wrong people. Now I know, as long as I 0:14:57.801 --> 0:15:02.961 love myself, that's the main thing. But yeah, Like, how 0:15:03.001 --> 0:15:08.001 desperate's that you to be calling you would work teacher dad. 0:15:08.561 --> 0:15:11.681 Well, I think it's natural in that circumstance where you're 0:15:11.681 --> 0:15:12.361 not getting any. 0:15:12.961 --> 0:15:16.161 He resembled the look of my dad, and I just 0:15:16.481 --> 0:15:18.441 I think it was probably one of the first men 0:15:18.521 --> 0:15:22.521 that understood what I was going through and took some care. 0:15:22.881 --> 0:15:25.241 Because your real dad was far away. Yeah, and he 0:15:25.601 --> 0:15:28.761 started his own family in another place. Yes, Yeah, And 0:15:28.881 --> 0:15:31.401 you must have thought about him over the years. 0:15:31.761 --> 0:15:35.481 From the minute he left, I thought, if my dad left, 0:15:36.481 --> 0:15:39.521 it was my fault. And then it was when I 0:15:39.641 --> 0:15:44.521 was about thirty eight forty I realized, no, Dad left 0:15:44.641 --> 0:15:47.801 because he loved me. So from forty to fifty four 0:15:47.841 --> 0:15:51.681 when you found him, that question lingered in my head 0:15:52.641 --> 0:15:54.761 that did he leave because he loved me? Or did 0:15:54.801 --> 0:15:55.801 he leave because he. 0:15:55.721 --> 0:15:58.721 Didn't love me and he was scared of the consequences. 0:15:58.921 --> 0:16:00.241 We'll jump forward to be here. He was scared of 0:16:00.281 --> 0:16:02.841 the consequences. And when I did find him and I 0:16:02.881 --> 0:16:05.641 called him, and initially he sort of went, no, I 0:16:05.641 --> 0:16:08.361 don't have a daughter, And I said, yes you do, mate, 0:16:08.641 --> 0:16:10.441 Yes you do, and you should be proud of her. 0:16:10.961 --> 0:16:13.801 And I'd like to reintroduce you. And that was the 0:16:13.841 --> 0:16:16.801 start of your revival. But you had to go through 0:16:16.841 --> 0:16:20.321 so many years of drama. Peter was off the scene. 0:16:20.321 --> 0:16:22.361 But then John, the man. 0:16:22.281 --> 0:16:27.881 You married yep at nineteen years of age in Pintroridge. Yeah, 0:16:28.161 --> 0:16:35.761 there was. He was a small time crook, yeah, rapist, rapist, murderer, pedophile, 0:16:37.721 --> 0:16:38.561 not so small. 0:16:38.281 --> 0:16:41.681 Time actually no, but certainly not a big criminal name 0:16:41.721 --> 0:16:42.481 of the underworld. 0:16:42.681 --> 0:16:45.281 No, don't go and rob a bank in your own car, 0:16:45.401 --> 0:16:47.321 do you? 0:16:47.441 --> 0:16:50.201 Yeah? Trap for young players, rob the bank in your 0:16:50.201 --> 0:16:55.401 own car? Yeah, Because later on you discovered he wasn't 0:16:55.441 --> 0:16:58.401 just abusing you. He was a serial rapist who became 0:16:58.441 --> 0:17:00.481 known as the Heidelberg Rapist in Melbourne. 0:17:00.561 --> 0:17:03.241 Yes he was, and that never stopped at him. But 0:17:03.281 --> 0:17:06.321 I wasn't aware he was raping. And the whole time I. 0:17:06.281 --> 0:17:09.441 Was with him, how many victims. 0:17:10.561 --> 0:17:13.360 Ten including nieces and my mother. 0:17:14.201 --> 0:17:19.120 Your own mother that one point twice you're telling me 0:17:19.201 --> 0:17:20.120 new things here, Kelly. 0:17:20.561 --> 0:17:24.041 No one ever told me Adam until he tried to kill. 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.561 Me because you I'm not going to say it was 0:17:27.561 --> 0:17:31.440 a stable family, but you stayed together. There was a union, 0:17:31.721 --> 0:17:34.201 that's call it that. But it was full of violence. 0:17:34.761 --> 0:17:39.961 There were children, Yep, my first baby. Unfortunately I lost 0:17:39.961 --> 0:17:44.640 a hydro cafless Heather Eve. She would be thirty seven, 0:17:44.721 --> 0:17:48.041 nearly thirty eight. Makes me feel a bit old. And then, 0:17:48.120 --> 0:17:50.881 like we spoke about in the last podcast, was their 0:17:50.921 --> 0:17:53.720 sexual abuse with John, Yes, there was, because I had 0:17:53.761 --> 0:17:58.960 four children under four, including twins. Yeah, and I was 0:17:59.321 --> 0:18:01.120 just now that I can look back at it, I 0:18:01.241 --> 0:18:04.480 was just like a slave, Just like a slave if 0:18:04.521 --> 0:18:07.161 I didn't get that dinner on the table looking after 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:09.840 four kids underfore, you fat, lazy bitch, What have you 0:18:09.921 --> 0:18:12.600 been doing all day? But I didn't realize that that 0:18:12.681 --> 0:18:15.361 was abuse. And there was not a lot of physical 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:21.321 abuse with John, but the mental and the torment and 0:18:21.360 --> 0:18:22.840 everything that goes in between. 0:18:23.441 --> 0:18:25.801 And finally you had to get away, not just from 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:27.001 him but from this state. 0:18:27.561 --> 0:18:32.001 Yes, yes, what happened. Yes, So John and Henry Morhun 0:18:32.120 --> 0:18:36.720 killed a man that had robbed Henry's wife for a 0:18:36.761 --> 0:18:41.400 gold bracelet. He come home and told me once again, 0:18:41.801 --> 0:18:46.281 another murder. I don't do anything with it. It was 0:18:46.321 --> 0:18:49.921 a really interesting scary time Adam because he wouldn't take 0:18:49.961 --> 0:18:55.681 police protection, so he was still going to court with Henry. 0:18:56.281 --> 0:18:57.761 Although he turned. 0:18:57.521 --> 0:18:59.001 Dog, he was giving up his brother. 0:18:59.201 --> 0:19:04.001 Yeah, yeah, so yeah, we went into witness protection. We 0:19:04.201 --> 0:19:08.240 changed name. Hims moved from Frankston to Mornington because he 0:19:08.321 --> 0:19:11.640 thought he could look after us. Had to change names 0:19:11.681 --> 0:19:17.400 again because Henry apparently found out who we were and 0:19:17.481 --> 0:19:22.600 in that witness protection wheel, Oh my god, that was terrifying. 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.441 You know, there was you got to go to all 0:19:26.521 --> 0:19:31.281 these undisclosed places almost you know, to get a tax 0:19:31.321 --> 0:19:34.401 file number, to get on the plane, like to go 0:19:34.481 --> 0:19:38.001 to court. We were living up in Queensland and that 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:42.001 system was terrifying. One night we were in a motel 0:19:42.120 --> 0:19:47.201 in Bell Street, Preston, and homicide squad detective was with us, 0:19:47.761 --> 0:19:50.561 and the people downstairs who run the hotel knew something 0:19:50.681 --> 0:19:54.281 was happening but didn't know what it was. I had 0:19:54.360 --> 0:20:00.001 the two kids, very pregnant with my twins. They ring 0:20:00.120 --> 0:20:02.480 up about twelve o'clock and say, we've just found a 0:20:02.481 --> 0:20:05.761 man outside your door. He said, he's d here last 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:09.521 night and he's looking for the toilet. So thank goodness, 0:20:09.681 --> 0:20:14.920 a homicide squad detective was armed. And I'm standing in 0:20:14.961 --> 0:20:19.281 this motel room with two kids, heavily pregnant. Why they 0:20:19.360 --> 0:20:22.480 run out to look for him, and that took about 0:20:22.521 --> 0:20:27.761 half an hour. Oh god, I was thinking he's waiting 0:20:27.801 --> 0:20:30.041 around for that plan for them to run to come 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:35.121 and get me. And when John did turn witness protection 0:20:35.321 --> 0:20:39.281 protected witness, I imagined that I would be murdered by 0:20:39.281 --> 0:20:43.201 Henry all the time. Yeah, he was a bad, bad man. 0:20:43.961 --> 0:20:48.281 And yeah, him and John did some disgusting things together, 0:20:49.041 --> 0:20:53.561 made friends in jail, as you do, and yeah, I 0:20:53.681 --> 0:20:55.041 was still learning the lesson. 0:20:55.201 --> 0:20:57.880 And that's the funny thing about if you give States evidence, 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:03.561 your name is suppressed forever until after your death. So 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:08.681 it prevented you from telling the story in a full 0:21:08.721 --> 0:21:12.880 way and identifying him and also possibly giving other victims 0:21:13.321 --> 0:21:16.681 a chance to know, yes, this was the man who 0:21:16.761 --> 0:21:17.160 raped you. 0:21:17.481 --> 0:21:22.640 Yep, exactly. When we went to court against Henry, his 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:29.280 record ended up in the room with the jury, so 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:32.400 he I don't know anyway, he got off it. He 0:21:32.481 --> 0:21:34.880 got off it, and we'd moved, we'd changed names, We've 0:21:34.961 --> 0:21:37.721 done everything. I got a phone call from the witness 0:21:37.721 --> 0:21:42.600 protection place, I can remember it quite significantly, telling me 0:21:42.681 --> 0:21:46.041 that he got off. I just sat on that phone 0:21:46.120 --> 0:21:49.161 and sobbed for I reckon. It was about an hour 0:21:49.360 --> 0:21:54.080 while the copper listened to me, tried to console me. Yeah, 0:21:54.120 --> 0:21:56.080 I thought Dan, for sure he's going to come. And 0:21:56.481 --> 0:21:59.360 I always thought that he'd get me, cut me up 0:21:59.360 --> 0:22:01.961 into little pieces, put me in an envelope, and send 0:22:01.961 --> 0:22:04.160 me back to John. But in the end it was 0:22:04.241 --> 0:22:06.321 John that almost cut me up. 0:22:07.281 --> 0:22:07.960 Let's get to that. 0:22:08.041 --> 0:22:13.761 What happened, Okay, So there wasn't violence, and there was 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:18.001 all the other abuse that I didn't understand. I thought 0:22:18.041 --> 0:22:20.480 a black eye was violent still though I'd lived it 0:22:20.561 --> 0:22:23.400 for thirty something years, and I thought a black eye 0:22:23.441 --> 0:22:27.360 was full of love. There was lots of arguing of things. 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:30.281 We had four children under four. He worked fifteen hours 0:22:30.321 --> 0:22:34.120 a day. He was drinking a lot that was trying 0:22:34.120 --> 0:22:37.961 to hide from me. One day I found a marijuana 0:22:38.001 --> 0:22:41.120 plant growing out in the backyard, and my mum was 0:22:41.241 --> 0:22:45.160 up on a holiday and I said, no chance, and 0:22:45.201 --> 0:22:47.281 I went out and put it over the back fence 0:22:47.281 --> 0:22:51.281 and smashed it. And Mum was absolutely terrified because he 0:22:51.321 --> 0:22:54.680 hasn't got home from school, and he walked in and 0:22:54.721 --> 0:22:56.920 he went out and found it, and he walked in 0:22:56.961 --> 0:23:02.801 and he said, fuck your gout balls. So that must 0:23:02.801 --> 0:23:06.360 have been one of his good days. He told people 0:23:06.400 --> 0:23:09.201 at work for six weeks where he was working, watch 0:23:09.321 --> 0:23:12.321 the news, Watch what I'm going to do. Watch the news, 0:23:12.321 --> 0:23:15.041 Watch what I'm going to do. I took an intervention 0:23:15.281 --> 0:23:18.600 order out on him three weeks prior because I was 0:23:18.640 --> 0:23:22.921 getting threats. He went to my workplace at Westfield Shopping Town, 0:23:23.001 --> 0:23:26.160 cut up all my car tires. He went to my 0:23:26.281 --> 0:23:28.880 house with my four year old son, cut up with 0:23:29.001 --> 0:23:32.400 my work clothes. I was working for Fletcher Jones, so 0:23:32.441 --> 0:23:35.761 even though I had the four kids under four, still 0:23:36.041 --> 0:23:39.840 wanted to go to work. After we'd separated, he would 0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:43.801 hassle me. He'd ring the work, he'd drop the kids off, 0:23:43.840 --> 0:23:45.921 you know, earlier than what he should it, so I'd 0:23:45.961 --> 0:23:47.681 have to leave work. It was a lot of Now 0:23:47.681 --> 0:23:53.041 I no coercive control, and I ended up becoming friends 0:23:53.041 --> 0:23:55.640 with a lovely guy. He would have the kids on 0:23:55.681 --> 0:24:00.121 the weekend and one of the kids said, Ken's at 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:05.561 mummy's house. And well, from then, the threats in front 0:24:05.600 --> 0:24:09.360