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Speaker 1: To be a really good leader. You need to be

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Speaker 1: a shape shifting leader in order to weave individuality into

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Speaker 1: a powerful group culture. And that means knowing not just

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Speaker 1: your people, but yourself everyone.

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Speaker 2: Before we get into this week's podcast, we got a

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Speaker 2: pretty cool announcement to make you are not able to

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Speaker 2: connect with us. We have a pretty cool little widget

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Speaker 2: that's on the website. Just go to Polltailor dot biz

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Speaker 2: forwards last podcast and near the top of the page

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Speaker 2: you'll see a little icon that says send a message

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Speaker 2: to the Pole Tailor podcast. And so what we can

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Speaker 2: do with that you just click on that and then

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Speaker 2: you send us an audio message and we will get

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Speaker 2: the audio message. The first thing I want to do

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Speaker 2: with using it is actually do and ask me anything episode.

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Speaker 2: So all you gotta do if you got a question

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Speaker 2: that we want me to cover is just go to

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Speaker 2: Paul Taylor dot b is z Forward Slash podcast he

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Speaker 2: and start the recording and then send us a message

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Speaker 2: about what you would like me to talk about and

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Speaker 2: they ask me anything and leave your name. We will

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Speaker 2: call it out on the show. I'll get that all

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Speaker 2: put together. And the other thing you can do is

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Speaker 2: just leave us a message about what you like about

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Speaker 2: the podcast, what you don't like about the podcast. There

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Speaker 2: I talk too much all of that sort of stuff,

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Speaker 2: and just give us some feedback and we will use

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Speaker 2: that to continuously improve. So looking forward to hearing from

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Speaker 2: you now I hover the podcast. I'm Marie Anderson. Welcome

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Speaker 2: to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Paul. It's great to see you.

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Speaker 2: And so where about to you in the States right now?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm in southern California, Los Angeles area, specifically in

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Speaker 1: Manhattan Beach.

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Speaker 2: From a beach person, ah, yes, yes, yes, I've been

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Speaker 2: in spending summer in Los Angeles many many men moons

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Speaker 2: ago working at Venice Beach. It was bloody fantastic, especially

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Speaker 2: for a boy from Belfast.

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Speaker 1: Is that right? Where are you? So you're from Belfast

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Speaker 1: live in Australia. So what were you doing in Venice Beach.

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Speaker 2: No, we were traveling. So we took a year off

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Speaker 2: for traveling around the world and we went and stayed

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Speaker 2: in LA for three months and I was working in

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Speaker 2: a fast food place on the boardwalk and it was

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Speaker 2: absolutely brilliant. Yeah, there was a bunch of us and

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Speaker 2: we had a great time in Venice Beach. So we've

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Speaker 2: being cheesus thirty odd years ago.

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Speaker 1: That's fun. And about thirty years ago, I, let's say

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Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty six, I was in Belfast dancing, Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: having a wonderful time there, and Australia as well that

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Speaker 1: I think it was the same summer. So we've been

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Speaker 1: missing each other around the globe. I like it. Indeed.

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Speaker 2: Now you are a sports broadcaster, as they say in

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Speaker 2: the good old US of A as we will know

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Speaker 2: as a sports commentator for ESPN, probably the biggest sports

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Speaker 2: channel in the world, I would imagine. So tell, how

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Speaker 2: did you did you actually get into that? Was that

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Speaker 2: something that was intentional from an early aage or did

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Speaker 2: you just kind of and up there three hoppen stunts.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think I always knew I wanted to be

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Speaker 1: a journalist of some kind, mostly by default, right, I

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Speaker 1: hate math. I really didn't enjoy any kind of technology,

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Speaker 1: always things, so you get kind of narrowed down. I

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Speaker 1: have four older brothers, Paul and I had no choice

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Speaker 1: but to watch TV whatever they were watching, which was

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Speaker 1: always sports, And I always say that I fell into

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Speaker 1: sports broadcasting because it was the combination of the two

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Speaker 1: things I loved the most. As a kid, I loved sports,

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Speaker 1: and my older brothers told me that I was a

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Speaker 1: world class tattletale, and so I figured sports reporting perfect

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Speaker 1: the two things I was good at as a kid.

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Speaker 2: What's tattletale? Storyteller?

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Speaker 1: Is it tattletale? No, it's telling on your brothers. They

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Speaker 1: snuck out this window at this time, you know, did

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Speaker 1: you know that they were doing this? It's reporting on

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Speaker 1: all the things that they were doing that I probably

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Speaker 1: shouldn't have been sharing with my parents. That's the tattletale

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Speaker 1: and sports reporting. It's perfect, excellent.

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Speaker 2: Now, so you have not written a book called Cultivating Audacity.

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Speaker 2: How much of that really reflects your own personal experience

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Speaker 2: of taking bold risks in your life and your career,

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Speaker 2: because you don't get to the top of the tree

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Speaker 2: without taking some bold risks.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and I don't think it came naturally to me,

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Speaker 1: And that's part of the reason I wanted to share

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Speaker 1: to people, share with people in Cultivating Audacity, because it

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Speaker 1: really was my journey and taking more and more risks

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Speaker 1: working certainly in a male dominated field. I had some

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Speaker 1: tragedies along the way where I watched a young colleague

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Speaker 1: pass away right before he was starting his dream job

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Speaker 1: as a sports center anchor, and that really shook me.

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Speaker 1: I performed CPR and him unsuccessfully. It was awful. It

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Speaker 1: was he was six days into his dream job and

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Speaker 1: newly married and very fit and thirty seven years old,

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Speaker 1: and an aneurysm took it all away. At that moment,

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Speaker 1: I decided, if you could have all those things going

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Speaker 1: for you and have it ripped away, I was never

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Speaker 1: ever gonna wait for anything again. And that really changed

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Speaker 1: my perspective. I was a young woman at the time,

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Speaker 1: twenty three years old, and I decided at that moment,

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Speaker 1: if I didn't know how much time I was going

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Speaker 1: to have, I was going to take bold risks and

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Speaker 1: keep going. And if I didn't succeed the first time,

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Speaker 1: I try again and again. And it changed my life.

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Speaker 1: And my entire career has been built on audacity.

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Speaker 2: That is really interesting. Actually, I had eight friends killed

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Speaker 2: at helicopter crash. That then was the stimulation for me

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Speaker 2: to leave the Navy and actually reflect a little bit

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Speaker 2: on my own mortality. And I then decided that I

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Speaker 2: wanted to do something meaningful with my life. This is

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Speaker 2: how I ended up where I was. But often it

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Speaker 2: does take that bit of a shock, doesn't it to

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Speaker 2: kind of a jolt aside of just kind of going

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Speaker 2: through the motions, you kind of realize, holy shit, you

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Speaker 2: know life is pretty fore and precious and you've got

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Speaker 2: to get get out there and get after it, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and if you've been privy to it, right

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Speaker 1: that because we've all been told it, But if somebody

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Speaker 1: has said to you or you've seen it happen all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, you're like, wow, it really can happen

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Speaker 1: in a moment. And I've never forgotten. His name is Peter.

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Speaker 1: I've thought about him all the time. I've stayed in

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Speaker 1: contact with his family actually, and I decided I kind

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Speaker 1: of owed it to him. He was thirty seven, And

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Speaker 1: it was at thirty seven years old I started to

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Speaker 1: make even bigger risks in my life. That's when I

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Speaker 1: decided to go all in on being in front of

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Speaker 1: the camera instead of producing. That's when I had my

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Speaker 1: first child. Like, at thirty seven, I considered everything beyond

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Speaker 1: then bonus time. Mm.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's interesting. Now I want to talk about

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Speaker 2: taking risks and the interaction with luck. Right, So, there's

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Speaker 2: probably lots of people I've said to you over the time. Gee,

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Speaker 2: you're lucky, You've got a great job. Right Professor Richard Wiseman,

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Speaker 2: You've probably never heard them. He's a UK psychologist. He's

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Speaker 2: been called one of the top and fifty most important

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Speaker 2: psychologists of the modern era. Right, And he studies all

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Speaker 2: sorts of stuff around human behavior, but has done a

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Speaker 2: series of studies on lucky people in inverted comments, right

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Speaker 2: and unlucky people. And he actually there's a little bit

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Speaker 2: of a story behind this, but he put an advert

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Speaker 2: in the paper in the UK asking for lucky people

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Speaker 2: and unlucky people to come and do a series of experiments, right,

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Speaker 2: And because it's the UK, he got a bunch of

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Speaker 2: lucky people and then he got a shit ton of

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Speaker 2: unlucky people but put them through a whole series of

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Speaker 2: experiments and actually showed that lucky people are actually have

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Speaker 2: no more opportunities. They're just more attuned to the opportunities

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Speaker 2: and they actually take risks, so they actually notice more

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Speaker 2: stuff around them because I have that kind of mindset

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Speaker 2: in the first place, and when they see an opportunity

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Speaker 2: they jump on it. Where there's unlucky people tend to go, oh,

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Speaker 2: that's never going to work out for me, or that's

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Speaker 2: too risky or that's too dangerious. Right, So what's your

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Speaker 2: kind of personal view on this, what you've noticed over time,

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Speaker 2: and what do you think. Well, we'll just leave it

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Speaker 2: with that for now. What's your observations around this?

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Speaker 1: I love that. I think that's so brilliant because I'll

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Speaker 1: expand on that and say a lot of people consider

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Speaker 1: any kind of outcome different from the one they want

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Speaker 1: to be failure, right, So they think, oh I failed,

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Speaker 1: when really it's about getting experience or data. So for

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Speaker 1: somebody who's lucky, right, you're in this job. You know,

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Speaker 1: if my job is lucky, well, how many times have

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Speaker 1: I been rejected for a job? How many times have

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Speaker 1: I failed? On air? And I use that in air

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Speaker 1: quotes because to me, it's all just data now. But

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Speaker 1: somebody who's unlucky, maybe they wouldn't come back around and

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Speaker 1: try a second time after they were bad, because they

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Speaker 1: would say, oh, I tried, and I know, yeah, luck,

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Speaker 1: bad luck. And for somebody who considers themselves to be lucky, right,

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Speaker 1: using that same branding, we know it's really about perseverance

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Speaker 1: and persistence and preparation and all those things coming together

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Speaker 1: but failure for me anyway, doesn't really exist. It's information

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Speaker 1: to keep me driving towards or redirect me perhaps towards

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Speaker 1: wherever I'm supposed to be.

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Speaker 2: And I think if a young man named Thomas Edison

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Speaker 2: had seen failure as a signal to give up, we

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Speaker 2: wouldn't have fregin electricity, right because he said he had

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Speaker 2: tan thighs and experiments and that you know, other people

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Speaker 2: would call them failures. That plays in quite nicely to

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Speaker 2: you talking in the book about two lives, one we

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Speaker 2: dream of and the one that we live. Right, And

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Speaker 2: so we've just talked about the luck factor in inverted commas.

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Speaker 2: What do you think what are some of the things

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Speaker 2: that determine who gets closer to the life that we

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Speaker 2: dream of, because there's very few people who are living

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Speaker 2: the perfect life that we dream of. Right. And I

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Speaker 2: remember and all saying when I was going through my

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Speaker 2: military training, no battle plan ever survives first contact with

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Speaker 2: the enemy. Right, Oh, I love that and the enemy's life, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Can we also call that parenting as well? Right?

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Speaker 1: You have your plan and then some comes in and

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Speaker 1: you're like, okay, well that didn't go as I thought

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Speaker 1: it was going. To to go. I love that. I'm

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Speaker 1: using that. I think what separates people is the ability

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Speaker 1: to dive into the vision of it. This sounds really strange,

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Speaker 1: but like everybody has their different way of going to bed,

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Speaker 1: and I believe like when I go to bed, I

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Speaker 1: think about the life that I want right which is

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Speaker 1: what I'm living now, but it's always evolving. So I

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Speaker 1: picture myself, here's the book coming out. You mentioned I

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Speaker 1: have a book now, so the success of that book

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Speaker 1: and where that leads me. And I think if you're

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Speaker 1: able to really envision sounds simplistic, some people call it manifesting.

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Speaker 1: But if you're envisioning kind of what your life is

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Speaker 1: and then willing to take the action to get there,

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Speaker 1: and that's the difference, then you can get there. Because

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Speaker 1: I talk about audacity being based in three different ways. Okay,

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Speaker 1: there's the mindset, which is really Paul just optimism, right,

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Speaker 1: just yeah, if you're down by twelve, I spend my

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Speaker 1: life in sports. If you're down by twelve at the half,

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Speaker 1: why do you come out and play the second half?

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Speaker 1: Because you're hoping maybe if your team gets their act

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Speaker 1: together and your offense starts working, maybe you'll win the game.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you won't, maybe you will, but you're optimistic that

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Speaker 1: could happen. But if you don't come out for the

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Speaker 1: second half, nothing's going to happen. Same way you sit

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Speaker 1: on your couch all day long eating chips, but and

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Speaker 1: optimistic as hell, nothing's going to happen. So until you

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Speaker 1: take that action towards the life that you want, then

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Speaker 1: the optimism isn't going to do anything. So for me,

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Speaker 1: I think about it as an audacious identity being the

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Speaker 1: consistency of the mindset, the optimism of I can do this,

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Speaker 1: I think we can do this, and the action of

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Speaker 1: hears how to do it. When those things are consistent,

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Speaker 1: then you have that what I would call an audacious identity,

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Speaker 1: which would be the life that you want or the

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Speaker 1: way that you put it. I love it is just

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Speaker 1: air quotes lucky. Yeah, you so lucky.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, And it's like lucky people. It's like

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Speaker 2: a duck on the water, right. All people see is

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Speaker 2: the duck. They don't see all the shit that's happening underneath. Right.

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Speaker 2: But I love that you combine that that mindset, that

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Speaker 2: optimism and action, right, And I think that's the difference

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Speaker 2: between that manifesting and then intentional action, And probably the

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Speaker 2: big difference between your book and The Secret. Do you

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Speaker 2: remember that book where you can manifest anything and you

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Speaker 2: just need to will it and stuff like that, Like, yes,

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Speaker 2: that's important. It's important to have goals and dreams and

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Speaker 2: to visualize those things. But you can't just sit there

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Speaker 2: and wait for the universe to drop it in your

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Speaker 2: bloody lap, can you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah? No, it doesn't work that way. And the thing

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Speaker 1: that I found in researching the book and writing the

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Speaker 1: book and certainly living parts of it, is that there's

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Speaker 1: always something in our way, right, There's always an obstacle

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Speaker 1: that's going to stop us or dissuade us if we're

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Speaker 1: not persistent enough. It's that person saying, oh, I'm unlucky there,

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Speaker 1: And it tends to be one of the same four things,

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Speaker 1: either fear, time, money, or your inner critic. And people

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Speaker 1: want to avoid those things like the plague. Well I'm afraid,

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Speaker 1: I definitely don't want to feel fear. But when you

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Speaker 1: flip some of these things on their head and you

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Speaker 1: start diving into them instead of pushing them away, I

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Speaker 1: think that's where the magic happens. And it's the same

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Speaker 1: thing that you're talking about with the secret like you

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Speaker 1: can manifest in your head all the time, this is

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Speaker 1: what it's going to be. But unless you're willing to

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Speaker 1: get your hands dirty and get some information about what

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Speaker 1: works and what doesn't work, which is going to mean

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Speaker 1: failing sometimes and you're not going to go anywhere.

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Speaker 2: We're going to get into all of that stuff, particularly

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Speaker 2: fear and overcoming that. But I just want to double

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Speaker 2: click on the optimism thing. I remember reading about all

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Speaker 2: the prisoners of war in a prison of work I'm

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Speaker 2: called the Hanoi Hilton, and you may be familiar with it,

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Speaker 2: and particularly Jim stock Deal, who's a bit of a

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Speaker 2: personal hero of mine. And this what came out of

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Speaker 2: that from the psychologist interviewing all those guys was that

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Speaker 2: particularly when you're faced with adversity. So there might be

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Speaker 2: a difference here, but when faced with adversity, having the

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Speaker 2: stock Deal paradox, which is where you hold two seemingly

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Speaker 2: opposable things in your mind at the same time. One

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Speaker 2: is a belief that you will prevail in the end

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Speaker 2: regardless of your circumstances, and at the same time you

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Speaker 2: got to confront the most rutual aspects of your reality.

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Speaker 2: But if we dial that din a little bit, that

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Speaker 2: whole idea of realistic optimism. Right, Not everybody can be

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Speaker 2: a sports broadcaster in esp and not everybody can be

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Speaker 2: an astronaut. There's a bell curve for lots of different things.

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Speaker 2: So how much do you are in researching the book?

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Speaker 2: Did a level of realism actually come into it when

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Speaker 2: people are visioning their goals? Or are you more like

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Speaker 2: just vision at shit and work towards it even if

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Speaker 2: it seems outrageous.

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Speaker 1: No, I think it's an excellent question, and it's a

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Speaker 1: really important one. I'll tell you this. I love the garden, right.

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Speaker 1: I think gardening is beautiful, and I think the world

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Speaker 1: needs gardeners, and I think the world will pay for

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Speaker 1: people to create fantastic gardens. Nobody is paying me to garden.

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Speaker 1: I kill everything. Every plant I touched dies, So that's

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Speaker 1: not an attainable dream for me, as much as I

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Speaker 1: would love to, you know, maybe be able to do that.

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Speaker 1: So you have to come back. Have you heard the

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Speaker 1: concept the Japanese concept ikey guy?

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Speaker 2: I certainly have. My wife has studied Japanese psychology and

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Speaker 2: I interviewed a brilliant guy professor can mogi on ikey

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Speaker 2: guy exactly right.

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Speaker 1: So they consider and again you can westernize some of

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Speaker 1: the concepts down to boil them down to be very simplistic.

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Speaker 1: I talk about something kind of similar because I don't

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Speaker 1: like it to be just one thing. But there's some

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Speaker 1: questions you can ask what are you good at right,

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Speaker 1: what does the world need? What do you love to do?

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Speaker 1: And what can you be paid to do if it's

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Speaker 1: your career, and you know, once you kind of dialed

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Speaker 1: out through those things. And the way that I talk

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Speaker 1: about it in the book is more of a freedom

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Speaker 1: funnel because there's a number of things that I want

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Speaker 1: to do. Some of them are paid and professional, right

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Speaker 1: my public speaking, my book. Some of them are not.

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Speaker 1: I like to travel internationally. I like to spend time

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Speaker 1: with my kids, introducing them to different cultures. But you

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Speaker 1: have to be realistic in terms of what are you

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Speaker 1: good at first, and then what do you love to do?

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Speaker 1: I personally would love to be an astronaut, and I've

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Speaker 1: told my kids that a million times, and they've said,

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Speaker 1: but you you wouldn't leave us to go to the moon.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I would, I'm sorry, I really would.

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Speaker 1: They call me irresponsible when they were young and everything.

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Speaker 1: They'd be like, you can't do that, you have little kids,

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Speaker 1: And I'd be like, it's the moon, you know, but

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Speaker 1: I can't add or do any of the mathematical calculations

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Speaker 1: that you might need if you're in space. I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure I would pass any of the physical components. Like

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Speaker 1: I may love it, but I'm not good at it.

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Speaker 1: And for realism, to your point, you need to figure

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Speaker 1: out the answers to those questions or through the freedom

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Speaker 1: funnel is what I would call it, with all the

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Speaker 1: same kinds of issues to figure out what is something

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Speaker 1: where you can contribute to the world, because to your

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Speaker 1: point out not everybody is meant for every job. But

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Speaker 1: I do think that everybody has something in their wheelhouse

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Speaker 1: that they could really enjoy and give it to the

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Speaker 1: world if they were able to uncover it and face

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Speaker 1: I mean, I love what you're talking about in terms of,

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Speaker 1: you know, war heroes and facing the uncomfortable truths too,

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Speaker 1: even though you know to get to that survival.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it, you said there. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: I've often said to my kids, you know, not everyone

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Speaker 2: can be an astronaut. And I said to my kids.

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Speaker 2: People who tell you can be anything you want in

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Speaker 2: this world are full of shit. I think that's the

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Speaker 2: wrong message. I think the right message is you can

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Speaker 2: be the best that you can be if you work

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Speaker 2: your butt off and you have targets and goals, right,

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Speaker 2: And that seems to be very aligned with your message

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Speaker 2: here now you that obviously then comes into fear. You

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Speaker 2: mentioned fear earlier on fear self doubt. So many people

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Speaker 2: are paralyzed by that shit, right, So what and you

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Speaker 2: talk about it a lot in the book. So what

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Speaker 2: strategies do you recommend for people who are paralyzed by fear?

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Speaker 1: I separate fear and the inner critic, even though they're

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Speaker 1: closely related, as you allude to, because fear can be

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Speaker 1: of anything, rejection, failure, exposure, right, embarrassment, judgment, whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: I recommend people fail right away, Go fail, And I

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Speaker 1: know it makes people uncomfortable. Fail fast, fail often. For me,

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Speaker 1: my first time on live television, which was not the plan,

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Speaker 1: was in seventy million homes, seventy million, my very first

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Speaker 1: time on live television. Yeah, that's not good, that's really

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Speaker 1: not good. I was supposed to be on this little

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Speaker 1: regional sideline reporter thing in the middle of America, but

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Speaker 1: somebody was ill and I filled in for them. And

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Speaker 1: it turns out that it was in seventy million homes,

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Speaker 1: and then I had five of those and it was terrifying,

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Speaker 1: and I was absolutely sobbing outside the stadium, right, professional broadcaster,

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Speaker 1: my first time on the air, in tears outside the stadium,

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Speaker 1: crying to my husband, saying, why did I do this myself?

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Speaker 1: I had such a nice life. Why did I want

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Speaker 1: to do this? And you know, he did the thing

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Speaker 1: that we all say, right, which is what's the worst

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Speaker 1: that can happen? People love to go to like what's

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Speaker 1: the worst that can happen? And I'm like, oh, you

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Speaker 1: want to know the worst that can happen, I'll be

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Speaker 1: the worst that can happen. The worst that can happen

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Speaker 1: was that not only will I never get another job

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Speaker 1: on air, I can live with that, but that I'll

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Speaker 1: never be able to produce again because I have been

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Speaker 1: a producer from fort six Olympic Games and heavyweight title

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Speaker 1: fights and big shows. I'll never get hired to produce

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Speaker 1: again because the people that I produce for will see

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Speaker 1: that I can't do their job and they'll never trust me,

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Speaker 1: so I'll lose my career entirely. My excellence is Matt.

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Speaker 1: I was like, Matt, I'll lose my entire career and

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Speaker 1: being so miserable without a career, you will have no

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Speaker 1: choice but to leave me because I won't be able

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Speaker 1: to be a good parent to our children who haven't

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Speaker 1: even been born yet, mind you, and I will digestitute

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Speaker 1: and alone. And Matt was like, wow, Wow, you went there,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, that's the worst that could happen.

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Speaker 1: So all I tell them I can tastrovise it all

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Speaker 1: the way to see how absolutely ridiculous that is, and

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Speaker 1: then go out and do it anyway. Because I was

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Speaker 1: afraid of being bad on air, which I was. I

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Speaker 1: was afraid of being embarrassed, I was judged, I was.

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Speaker 1: I was afraid of not getting hired again. Well I

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Speaker 1: did get hired again, and I went out and did

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Speaker 1: it again, and the only thing that was better about

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Speaker 1: the second time was that it wasn't the first time, right, and.

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Speaker 2: And doing it very cool now. And you also talk

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Speaker 2: about so we talked about risks and taking risks right,

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Speaker 2: and you talk about reckless risks and risks that are

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Speaker 2: that are worth it. So can you kind of expand

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Speaker 2: on that, What do you mean that, I'd give us

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Speaker 2: some examples around and how can people use this to

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Speaker 2: sort of guide themselves?

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Speaker 1: Sure, sure, well you consider your circumstances. I was working

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Speaker 1: with a client who was in business and he wanted

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Speaker 1: to be a realtor, right, and realtors, I think you

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Speaker 1: call them the same thing real estate agents.

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Speaker 2: Call them real estate agents.

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Speaker 1: Chat, yeah, real estate agents. So you were paid when

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Speaker 1: you sell a house, and when you don't sell a house,

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Speaker 1: you do not get paid. And he had two young

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Speaker 1: children and a wife and a family to support it.

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Speaker 1: So for him to just quit his job and declare

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be a realtor before he gets a

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Speaker 1: license or anything else would be reckless, but it could

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Speaker 1: be worth it if he was prepared the right way.

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Speaker 1: And he said to me, well, I'm afraid I'm going

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Speaker 1: to fail the test because I haven't had time to

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Speaker 1: study for it. And so I asked, like, how much

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Speaker 1: is the test sixty dollars US? Okay, how many times

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Speaker 1: can you take it? Unlimited? I said, great, step one,

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Speaker 1: go take the test and he said we I'm going

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Speaker 1: to fail. And I said that's fine, go fail the test,

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Speaker 1: and he said on purpose. And I said, well, it

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Speaker 1: sounds like you're going to fail it because you're not prepared.

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Speaker 1: So he went out, took the test, failed it and said,

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Speaker 1: now what I said, Now, you're not afraid of failing

432
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 1: because you've already done it and survived it. So now

433
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 1: let's talk about what you need in order to pass it.

434
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 1: And for him, it was time to study, right. He

435
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 1: just couldn't find time to study. So some people can

436
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 1: do it all in one block. Most of us had

437
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 1: incredibly busy lives and we can't do that, and everything

438
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 1: seems urgent. So we created some space for him throughout

439
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: his day. One of the spaces was when his kids

440
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: were in the bath and he told his wife, I'll

441
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 1: help you get them into the bath. You give the

442
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 1: twins the half hour bath. I will study for the

443
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 1: test during that time and I'll be back in time

444
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 1: to put them into bed, you know, read the book

445
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: in bed. And so he did that twice a day.

446
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: He had two different periods, one before they got up

447
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: and not so he was able to create the success

448
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: for himself by studying. He failed it a second time,

449
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,360
Speaker 1: and then he passed it on the third time, Well,

450
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:48,479
Speaker 1: now it's no longer a reckless risk. Now it can

451
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,360
Speaker 1: be worth it because he has studied, he has the material,

452
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: he's passed the test, and he has enlisted his family

453
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 1: in his success. So that for me is the difference

454
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: twin a risk that is reckless and work. If you

455
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: was single without kids, go for it, buddy, Just go

456
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: take the test, do whatever you need to do with

457
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 1: your obligations, a little more planning. It depends on your circumstance.

458
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 2: And then with failure, so you know we talk about failure,

459
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 2: people either avoid it like the plague, you know, this

460
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 2: fear of failure, right, but that whole attitude you know,

461
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 2: you win or you learn. How do you help to

462
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 2: shift people? Do you talk in a book about shifting

463
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 2: people from that mindset? Because so many people I know

464
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 2: who just don't do stuff because they're a free out

465
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 2: of failure. How do you help to move people from

466
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 2: that fear wrapped around failure to looking at it as

467
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,719
Speaker 2: you know, what we talked about earlier on which I love,

468
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 2: is an experiment to get yourself some data, right, to

469
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 2: learn some stuff to move you forward, like you did

470
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 2: with this real estate guy. But how do you nudge

471
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 2: people in that when they are just obsesssed about not feeling.

472
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: Well, you look at the potential outcome. I mean, look,

473
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: if you're happy with your life, this is what i'd

474
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: say in if you're happy with your life the way

475
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: it is right now, then don't change a thing. You're

476
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: just going to see. The questions are though, you've come

477
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 1: to me and you're talking to me about something you

478
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 1: want to change. So in order to change, there's going

479
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: to have to be some experimentation, some risk, what is

480
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: the worth that can happen? Catastrophizing and you know, working

481
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: with a client recently, she was going, oh, then this

482
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 1: is going to happen. So she got to the point

483
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: where she said, and then I'm going to be passed

484
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: out on the floor. And I'm like, okay, so you're

485
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: in your interview for the job and you're passed out

486
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: on the floor, and then what happens? And she finally said, Okay,

487
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 1: that's probably not going to happen. And I think it's

488
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: when you make your feel your fears so extreme that

489
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: you realize that's not really going to happen. You're not

490
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: going to win any your first time on air and

491
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: you're probably not going to lose your job. So when

492
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 1: you have desensitizedlf enough to rejection, because that's an ego thing, right,

493
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,199
Speaker 1: you get respected, and that's an ego thing. But like

494
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: when you're driving on a mountain and you see guardrails,

495
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: you're not insulted by them, saying this road. Doesn't think

496
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: that I can drive on this snowy road without some

497
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 1: kind of protection or guardrail. No, You're like, Okay, that's

498
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: a guardrail there, and if I hit the guardrail, then

499
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: I know I need to recorrect. I need to correct myself.

500
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: When you can teach them that failure isn't the end

501
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: of the story. It is somebody that you can make

502
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: friends with, an experiment into, then they become desensitized to it.

503
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: And I know this because I had the thinnest skin

504
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: in the world, and I got to the point where

505
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: I would actively seek out rejection where I and I

506
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: still do it to a degree. When I'm looking at

507
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: prospecting speaking gigs, I will go for the very biggest

508
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 1: thing possible where failure, rejection is the likely outcome, just

509
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: to have that experience so then I can move on.

510
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: You know how, Sometimes people will have like the one

511
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: big thing that they want to do, So they dance

512
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: around and do tryal the little things because you know,

513
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: the big thing's too scary, and what if they fail.

514
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 1: My advice is, yep, will fail the big thing. Go

515
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 1: get rejected by the big thing first, so then you

516
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: can work on all the little things, the little steps

517
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: that maybe it will lead you back there, but maybe

518
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: it'll lead you in a different direction altogether.

519
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 2: And how much of that is about you mentioned the

520
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 2: ego is about desensitizing the ego to failure. And I

521
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 2: see realizing that, Hey, when you feel the world doesn't

522
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 2: freaking end.

523
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: Yes, I think a lot of it is. I mean,

524
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:40,959
Speaker 1: I think of it. You've got you know, it's back

525
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: to when we were kids and learning about the ID,

526
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 1: the ego, the superrego, right, and the ID says like

527
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: I've got this crazy idea, like let's go do this.

528
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: And you know, your ego really is supposed to be

529
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 1: the referee working between You're in your superrego, So your

530
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: inner critic, that inner voice is really your super ego

531
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 1: that's there to keep you safe, that says, well, that's

532
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: too risky, you'll never do that, You're not qualified enough

533
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 1: for that. There's people that are better than you. You're

534
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 1: not ready. You'll just old voice voice, boice voice. When

535
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: you start separating those voices a little bit, you're able

536
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: to see them for what they are. I just had

537
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: this discussion with my twelve year old daughter on the

538
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: way to school this morning again, because I was like,

539
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,679
Speaker 1: you know, that's not you, that thought that's telling you

540
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: that you can't do this. That's literally just somebody trying

541
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: to keep you safe from failing at it. It's outside

542
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: of you. And she said, no, it's me. And I said, well,

543
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: would you go to your friend Alice and be like, Alice, seriously,

544
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: you suck at math. You're horrible. And she's said, well,

545
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: of course I wouldn't say that. And I was like, well,

546
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: so you're probably not saying it to yourself. It is

547
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: just a singular thought, one of forty five thousand that

548
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: passed through your mind every day, seventy five percent of

549
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: which you're negative according to statistics. So choose a different

550
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: thought seems easy. But if you can't do seventh grade math,

551
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: who cares? Maybe you won't be a mathematician. Yeah, indeed, yes,

552
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: it starts in forty minutes. Go to the next class

553
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: see what happens there.

554
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 2: So we call in our house, we call that inner critic,

555
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 2: You're inner gremlin, right there you go so and and

556
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 2: the gremlin is it's just that voice, and it's always

557
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 2: there and often trying to protect you. But it's negative,

558
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 2: it's apprehensive, and it often gets in your way. But

559
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 2: here's the issue. Lots of people pay too much attention

560
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 2: to the gremlin. Right. And I'm such a big fan

561
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 2: of attention. My kind of wife first highlighted it to me.

562
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 2: In Japanese psychology, they say that the most powerful thing

563
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 2: that you have in your life is the flashlight of

564
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: your attention, right, And as a neuroscientist, I love that

565
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: because whatever you pay attention to your bringing commits sales

566
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 2: to it. Right. So, just by paying attention to that

567
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: your inner critic, or we call it your gremlin, you're

568
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 2: actually energizing it. And the whole thing is it's always

569
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 2: going to be there. And I think that the approach

570
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 2: to it is is not is this thought right or wrong?

571
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: Because then people can get you know, yes I am

572
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 2: shit blah blah blah. Is this thought helping? And if

573
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 2: it's not helpful, you shift your attention to something else right,

574
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 2: you talked about some more positive So, well we talk

575
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 2: about your inner siege, right, which is the best version

576
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 2: of you? That is, is that that person who takes

577
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 2: the risks, who does all of this stuff. Right, So

578
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 2: that attention thing, I think is just hugely important. Now

579
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 2: this place that the whole fear, self doubt thing, procrastination,

580
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 2: so that can also hold people back. Sometimes it's fear based,

581
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: sometimes it's not fear based. I mean, so many people

582
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 2: just procrastinate their bloody lives away.

583
00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: Have you got.

584
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 2: Any little tips or practical steps that people can tick

585
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 2: whenever they're procrastinating?

586
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: Yes, I want to go back though, to the inner

587
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: critic for just one second. That's not helpful. That's the

588
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: phrase that I chose to say to my inner critic

589
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: because I believe in having a conversation with them. Why

590
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: my nineteen year old son told his inner critic, you're

591
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: not allowed to drive, You're not allowed to touch the

592
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: radio like he said, you know, I realize you're going

593
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: to be with me forever because we've had lots of conversations,

594
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: and so he said, you can't drive like you can

595
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: you can sit in the passenger seat because I know

596
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: you're going to be with me and you can say

597
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: everything you want, but you're not telling me where to go.

598
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, I love that to that.

599
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 2: So we talk about you're bringing some limousine and someone

600
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 2: always has to drive every nine and then you notice

601
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 2: your Gremlin's driving, and you go, what the hell are

602
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 2: you doing driving? You don't have a license and lastwhere

603
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 2: in danger? But you kick it into the back seat

604
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 2: and it's still going. And then because you're in a limousine,

605
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 2: you just press the button.

606
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: Window goes up. I love I love the Gremlin because

607
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: we talk about turning your inner critic into your inner coach.

608
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: I mean, these are all really similar things. But for me,

609
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: when I and I still have it, somebody will say

610
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: something you know, and I literally will say, that's not helpful.

611
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: That's it, that's not helpful. You can say whatever. I

612
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: don't care if it's true, if it's not true, or whatever.

613
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: It's not helping me at all. I have friends who

614
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: have so many different systems, and other friend of mine

615
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: looks at the joint where the wall meets the ceiling.

616
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: She's a public speaker, but still very very nervous when

617
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: she speaks, and so she when she gets nervous. She

618
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: looks at that joint where the wall and the ceiling

619
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: meet and just thinks, where the wall meets the ceiling

620
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: is a wonderful feeling.

621
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 2: Just a ground, attentional control.

622
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: Whatever whatever it is for procrastinating. Right, it's tough. It's

623
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: funny because I have here at my desk, I have

624
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: my little list every day of and we all have, right,

625
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: you have.

626
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 2: I got rich the board right here exactly.

627
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: There's nothing more satisfying than crossing something off the list.

628
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: So here's the thing I dound with procressing. I'm so

629
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: glad you asked, because when we think of time as

630
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: a barrier, right, I don't have time, And that's what

631
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: anybody that procrastinates will say. I'll get to that as

632
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: soon as I finish this, but this being the urgent,

633
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,479
Speaker 1: things never end, the hamster wheel of things, whether it's

634
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: you know, emails and phone calls and texts, or school

635
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: permission slips or feeding your kids, it just never ends.

636
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: And so unless you schedule time, it seems so easy,

637
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: you've heard it before. To do you get things that

638
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: are important that are going to move you towards your

639
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: values and visions and goals. You can procrastinate all day long.

640
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: The problem, of course, is how do you schedule that

641
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: time when everything seems urgent. Things that are urgent have

642
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: a deadline. Things that are urgent provide a sense of satisfaction.

643
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: You can check them off your list pretty quickly. Right.

644
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: Things that are urgent will get done eventually because they're urgent.

645
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: Things that are important get put off. So for me,

646
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: when it came time to writing the book, I was like, great,

647
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: I'm a full time broadcaster, a full time speaker, a

648
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: full time mother of three, and I've decided to write

649
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: a book. How's that going to work? So I did

650
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 1: the old I'm going to get up super early every

651
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: day and spend an hour writing the book four thirty am,

652
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 1: which was great. I got a lot done, and it sucked.

653
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 1: It was horrible. I was exhausted by the time I

654
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 1: got to dinner time. I had no patience for the kids.

655
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: If I had to call a game on air that night,

656
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: I was dead before I even started. So I needed

657
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 1: that hour throughout my day. For me, it was fifteen

658
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: minute chunks because that's the most I could do. So

659
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 1: I would set the alarm on my phone. Literally, my

660
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: alarm would go off. The kids hated the sound of

661
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: that alarm because I would close the door, you know,

662
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 1: and maybe they would say I'm hungry, But hungry is

663
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: an urgent, just so you know, so they would say

664
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: I'm hungry, and I would say I bet, which they

665
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: really hate. By the way, if you say that, yeah

666
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: me too, same any of that when they don't like

667
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: but they can wait fifteen minutes and everything got turned

668
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: off and I focused on something moving me forward. So

669
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 1: for people that procrastinate, you got to give yourself a

670
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: tiny window, just a time.

671
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of that, I said, just because

672
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 2: my daughter's coming to exams now. She just finished her exams. Now,

673
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 2: she's been very, very good and very motivated, but there

674
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 2: was a couple of days she wasn't motivated. Me and

675
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 2: my wife almost at the same time. Just go just

676
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 2: two twenty minutes. You don't need to be motivated, just

677
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 2: two twenty minutes, right, I think that's for most people.

678
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 2: It's just getting started. And it's basically you know, when

679
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 2: people when they think about it, when they have got

680
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 2: stuff that's really important to do. And if I think

681
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:51,959
Speaker 2: back to my time at university, that's when your room

682
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 2: is its tidiest, right, that's when all the dishes get

683
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 2: done and all the shitty emails get done because you're

684
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 2: brilling just says, oh, I've got there's really important thing

685
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 2: to do. I don't want to do it, but I

686
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 2: need to be busy. And you do work like activities, right,

687
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 2: you do bullshit stuff that is convincing your brand that

688
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 2: you're being productive. And there's a reason why you're not

689
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 2: doing this important thing.

690
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 1: You know what's so criminal about that? Here? I am

691
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: supposedly an expert in this, right, And this weekend I

692
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,720
Speaker 1: cleaned out the filters and the washing machine and the tire.

693
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: I went through and throughout things, and the kids are like,

694
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: what is going on? And I said, I have a

695
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,720
Speaker 1: huge week head and they were like, help me connect

696
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 1: those two things. Mom met those two things. But I'm

697
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: telling you that wash my laundry room is spectacular right now.

698
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,879
Speaker 1: But I've still got this huge list of things that

699
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: I'm doing. There is something about that anybody could fall

700
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: into it. So I told myself, fine, I'm giving myself

701
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 1: Saturday and Sunday to do that. And I went into

702
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: the garagroot to that and then I hit Monday and

703
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: it's Okay, here's the thing. I still use a timer, though.

704
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: I set my timer for twenty five minutes, and that

705
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: last five minutes. I get up, I go take the

706
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: dog for a minute walk, I go make myself a

707
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: cup of tea, whatever it is, so I know twenty

708
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: five minutes I have to work on this, and then

709
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: I can take a break, do something else, and either

710
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: return this is important, you're saying to your daughter. Either

711
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: return to the same thing, or if that's too overwhelming,

712
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 1: return to something else that needs to get done for

713
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: twenty five minutes before I return back. You don't have

714
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: to grind it all out at once.

715
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, classic Palmetoro technique stuff, right, that twenty five minute blocks.

716
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 2: I love that, and then taking a little break and

717
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 2: then back into it. And hey, turn your god down

718
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 2: phone off when you're doing your twenty five minutes.

719
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: Right, absolutely, and you're fifteen minutes and everything else to

720
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: put on noise canceling headphones if you get other people

721
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: in the house with no noise, just sound, just silence

722
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: while you work on the children, yes, yes, or lock

723
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: yourself in a room away from the children and the dog.

724
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 2: That'll probably get you in last trouble. So so you

725
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 2: talk about cultivating and audecis identity. I kind of love

726
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,240
Speaker 2: the idea of that. So talk us through what ease

727
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 2: and audacious identity and how do you start to cultivate it?

728
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 2: Because I think that identity piece is really really key.

729
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 2: I think when people can get that identity I am

730
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 2: a fit person, I am an active person, I think

731
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 2: that's really really key. So talk about what is an

732
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 2: audacious identity and how can you start to cultivate it.

733
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: I love that you use the words I am, because

734
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: you know, I know you know that I am is

735
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: such an important part of it. So's audacity. At first,

736
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: my parents used to say to me, you have the

737
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,760
Speaker 1: audacity to ask me that you know you saw audacious?

738
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: So I thought it was a bad word, and then

739
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: I looked it up and it was the willingness to

740
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: take bold, sometimes surprising risks, and I thought, yeah, I

741
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: can do that. Cultivating, of course, is growing that, because

742
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: I don't think we're necessarily built with that, some people

743
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: more than others, you know, as children, those as young

744
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: children we want to please, so it's not like we're

745
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: into risk taking as children. And then to make it

746
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 1: an identity is the consistent practice of it. So, for example,

747
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: when I was eleven years old, my father was my

748
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: biggest supporter, said to me at one point, you're getting

749
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: a little cocky. And it was like a stab orom

750
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 1: for me. You know, Oh, my gosh, cocky. I don't

751
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,959
Speaker 1: want to be cocky, my poor dad. Like I held

752
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 1: on to that for forty years. It was just a

753
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: little comment. I'm thinking, I'm writing the book, and I

754
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 1: decide one night to look up the definition of cocky,

755
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 1: like forty years later, get to this earlier and it

756
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 1: says so sure of one's abilities that it annoys other people.

757
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: And I was like, wait a minute, so sure of

758
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 1: one's abilities, yeah, like when it comes to my work

759
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: in television, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing

760
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: after all thirty five years in television, that it annoys

761
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: other people. Well as my teenagers would say, that's opp

762
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 1: that's other people's problems, Like my confidence is annoying somebody else.

763
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,399
Speaker 1: And I understand we think of kaky as somebody who's

764
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: bragging about it. But the actual definition, so then I

765
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 1: was like, wait a minute, then I'll take that. And

766
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: so I think for audacity and making it an identity,

767
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: we have to shed some of the ideas we have

768
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 1: about audacity being negative. My sister in law, who's from Argentina, said,

769
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 1: wait a minute, it's a great thing in Argentina to

770
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: be audacious. We call that like the best of both worlds.

771
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: And I said, somehow, at times, audacity, at least in

772
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: this country. And you can tell me there got attached

773
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 1: to this kind of braggered, overly confident person who's not

774
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: very likable. When you shed that, it's easier to take

775
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: it on as your identity.

776
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 2: I think culturally that there's a significant difference between the

777
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 2: US and Australia. Australia I find in you, I said,

778
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 2: you know, just the best things about people in the

779
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 2: US is how supportive they are of other people, and

780
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 2: how supportive they are of people who have become successful.

781
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: I think that's a great part of American culture. Over here,

782
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 2: there's something called tall poppy syndrome. Have you ever heard

783
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 2: of it? Now that as soon as you stick your

784
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 2: head as a tall poppy above everybody else, somebody cuts

785
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 2: it off right well, And it is a It is

786
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: a well recognized phenomena in Australia, is that tall poppy syndrome.

787
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 2: So people tend to kind of keep their heads started

788
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 2: for a bit? Where is it in the stage you

789
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 2: celebrate people who have gone out there and been successful

790
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,879
Speaker 2: and are are are successful in every way?

791
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: You're ok?

792
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, go you? Whereas over here right?

793
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: Ah?

794
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 2: You dickhead, pull your head in?

795
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 1: Yeah? And why is that though? Like when you when

796
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: you dig into it, why is it because? Is it

797
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: because you're mad at yourself for not growing to be

798
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: a tall poppy? You know? Is that what it is? Is

799
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 1: so you want to keep everybody the same?

800
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 2: It is such an interesting and I don't like it,

801
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 2: and lots of people don't like it. I really I

802
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 2: think I love that part of us culture where you

803
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 2: celebrate other people's success and see that as something that's aspirational.

804
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,760
Speaker 2: I think that's a really healthy part of American culture.

805
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:19,760
Speaker 1: Right when we're.

806
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 2: Talking about all of this taking risks, audacity, all of that.

807
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 2: How important are support networks around there, particularly if you're

808
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 2: feeling everything.

809
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: I call it the front row. Nice are the people

810
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: and you have to pick your own. You have to

811
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: cultivate and curate your own front row. I'll tell you

812
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 1: who's not in your front row, Paul. It's probably not

813
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: your mom. It may not be your wife, although she

814
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: sounds amazing, it may not be your best friend because

815
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: a lot of times they want you to stay safe,

816
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: or they want your if you're supporting the family, for example,

817
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: I want things to be understand. Your front row is

818
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: made up of the people who are going to push

819
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: and challenge and pick you up if you're failing, and

820
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: encourage you along the way. But there's an accountability there,

821
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: and you get a front row in all different areas

822
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,399
Speaker 1: of your life. I've got a fitness front row where

823
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: if I don't show up to work out, they're calling

824
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: me saying what are you doing? Like why are you

825
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 1: not here today? But your front row, in your audacious streams,

826
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: the first thing you have to do, and this is

827
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: where I think a lot of people miss out. You

828
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 1: have to tell somebody about it. Tell somebody what it

829
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 1: is that you want to do. I was in ESPN

830
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: ten full years working before I told anybody I wanted

831
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: to be on camera. That's how locked up I was

832
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,919
Speaker 1: with my dreams. And so when you curate your front row,

833
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 1: you tell them, hey, this is what I'm going to do.

834
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: Will you be in my front row? And anybody who's

835
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: been to one of my talks or has taken one

836
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: of my workshops. No, we use those terms, and when

837
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: they use them with each other, it becomes very powerful.

838
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 1: Will you be in my front row as I embark

839
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: on this challenge, then you've got that support system not

840
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 1: just for the failures, but for the successes along the

841
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 1: way too, because you have to celebrate those. And sometimes

842
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: and I'll leave it here with this, but sometimes the

843
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: success is in getting a rejection, is in failing at something.

844
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: Look at you, Paul. You went into it, you were afraid,

845
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 1: you were failed, you went out, you did it anyway.

846
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: Good for you, and that can be the success.

847
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Awesome. There's so much I love about your front row.

848
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 2: What I particularly like about it is it's not just

849
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 2: a cheer squad, and that you said that they are

850
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 2: to push you, to challenge you, and to hold you

851
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 2: to account. I think the other thing I loved about

852
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 2: it is the social evidence piece, right about actually telling

853
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 2: people that you're going to do it, then you're much

854
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,479
Speaker 2: more likely to go and do it right once you've

855
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 2: actually got it out there and it's out in the world.

856
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 2: And I think the last thing is about that celebrating success.

857
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 2: I can't remember who the neuroscientist was but showed that

858
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 2: and that when you achieve something you should actually celebrate

859
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 2: it for about twelve seconds ten to twelve seconds, which

860
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 2: then locks it in to the part of the brain

861
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 2: I think the basal ganglia where it starts to then

862
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:28,720
Speaker 2: drive other behaviors. So I think all together that front

863
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 2: rows and celebrating success social evidence, post challenge accountability is

864
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 2: freaking awesome. It's very cool concept. And I love the

865
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 2: idea of your front row.

866
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. It's a fun one. And I actually

867
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,800
Speaker 1: have my front row that cheered me on through writing

868
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 1: the book and everything. They're all coming over Sunday by

869
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 1: coming to me outtown and I had someone coming in

870
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: to teach us a self defense class. It's about six

871
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: of us because I thought, okay, you and what I

872
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 1: said to them was, you've been so strong for me

873
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 1: this year and pushing me that I wanted to give

874
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: you a gift of all of us being strong physically

875
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 1: together and take self defense. The book's not out. I

876
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: don't know how it's going to be received and this

877
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: and that yet, but the success was in doing it

878
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: and then celebrating that with my front row, because it

879
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: wasn't about the outcome. It was about the action.

880
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 2: Ah. I love that, not an idea because when I

881
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 2: talk to athletes, so I'm the mindset coach for Australia

882
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 2: karate athletes, who these guys are trying to get to

883
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 2: the Olympic Games. When I talk to them, what consistently

884
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 2: comes up that destroys performance is focus on the outcome.

885
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 2: Focusing on the win, right, because it just adds another

886
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,879
Speaker 2: layer of stress. And some light bulb moments were going

887
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 2: off and I'm like, you got to focus on the process,

888
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 2: do the work and then you take the rest as

889
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,439
Speaker 2: it comes. The outcome will be what it will be.

890
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 2: You need to focus on the process. And it's al

891
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 2: as like you're of a similar mindset.

892
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that because the celebrat comes in the

893
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: work that they did for me. That's the part I'd

894
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: want to celebrate. Look, how darn hard you work to

895
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: be able to do this and accomplish this, not to

896
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: win this, not to do how hard you trained. There's

897
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: the celebration.

898
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 2: And I think there is the biggest lesson for any

899
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,240
Speaker 2: parent out there. And I learned this from Carol Dweck

900
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 2: doing a four our workshop and I know you'll know

901
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:28,240
Speaker 2: who she is. But praising effort never pre as outcome,

902
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 2: always pre as effort, because effort is there if they

903
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 2: put the effort in. Obviously, whether they win or lose,

904
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 2: it's about the effort, which then cultivates that growth mindset

905
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 2: and people yep.

906
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: Yep exactly. And I have one more thing with parents

907
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,319
Speaker 1: who are so invested in their kids' sports and they

908
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: want to be able to say, great job, honey, you

909
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,479
Speaker 1: did this after the game. We're we decided a long

910
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 1: time ago the only thing we were going to say

911
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 1: to our children after a game, and we've stuck to

912
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: it for decades. Are you hungry? Are you hungry? The

913
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: answer is always yes. My son was just in the

914
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: state championship. It was four overtimes there. They ended up

915
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: losing in the fourth overtime sudden death. He's the goalie finishes,

916
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,720
Speaker 1: comes over to me and I said, buddy, are you hungry?

917
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 1: And he said, yeah, I am, And he had a

918
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 1: big smile on his face because he was like, at

919
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 1: least in the car ride home, I'm not going to

920
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: have to relive game. And they know they know that

921
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 1: the outcome isn't the point at all, but by staying

922
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 1: totally neutral you could win. In fact, my other summer

923
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 1: they won the championship. I went on the floor with

924
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 1: everybody else celebrating. I hugged him and I said, are

925
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 1: you hungry? And he laughed at me and he said,

926
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 1: yeah I am, because we just they just know it's you,

927
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: it's your journey, and we're just here cheering you on

928
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 1: and feeding you the whole way. It's worked so beautifully

929
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 1: for my family because it's never about the outcome.

930
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's hugely important, particularly for parents. So for

931
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 2: your career, we need to wind up. There's a couple

932
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 2: questions I want to ask you right so, and you

933
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,800
Speaker 2: can take these in any order. One is, for your career,

934
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,439
Speaker 2: what was the most audacious career move or maybe maybe

935
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 2: tell you the one that came off and the one

936
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:15,359
Speaker 2: that didn't, if you can think about that. And then

937
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 2: I just want to pick your brain about you know,

938
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:22,839
Speaker 2: commenting on sport, on high level sport for so many years,

939
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 2: what were there any standard lessons from either individuals that

940
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 2: you watched or interviewed in terms of what to do

941
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 2: and what not to do, Like there's anything really stick

942
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 2: in your mind. I'm sure there's so many of them,

943
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,439
Speaker 2: but what really pops your mind. So take those last

944
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 2: two questions in any order perfect.

945
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 1: I'll start with the second one, that's all what we

946
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:46,879
Speaker 1: always learn in journalism, and then double barreu of question.

947
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: You take the last one first. So what I learned, Yes,

948
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 1: So what I learned from watching and being in the

949
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: boardrooms and locker rooms of the most elite coaches in

950
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: American sports is that to be a really good leader,

951
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 1: you need to be a shape shifting leader in order

952
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 1: to weave individuality into a powerful group culture. And that

953
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 1: means knowing not just your people but yourself. What are

954
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: your philosophies, how do you like to receive feedback, who

955
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 1: is in your front row professionally, who's going to have

956
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 1: your system still in place when you're not around. I

957
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: think being a shape shifting leader in terms of training,

958
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: in terms of working as a teammate, has been one

959
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:31,839
Speaker 1: of the things that's really struck me. In the most

960
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 1: successful teams, lots of flexibility. As for a career move

961
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:40,880
Speaker 1: that worked, it was very clear for me the first

962
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 1: time I really got my self kind of lit up

963
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 1: about audacity. I was living in Bristol, Connecticut, very snowy place.

964
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,320
Speaker 1: The snowiest winter in like one hundred years in nineteen

965
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 1: ninety four, and I'm shoving myself out. And I took

966
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 1: a trip to southern California to visit my brother in February.

967
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,320
Speaker 1: And I arrived in southern California and watched everybody playing

968
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:04,240
Speaker 1: beach volleyball, and I thought, what am I doing?

969
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 2: Like?

970
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,280
Speaker 1: What am I doing? And I went back at ESPN's

971
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 1: headquarters and went to my boss and said, hey, I

972
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: want to be LA Bureau producer. And he said, well,

973
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,359
Speaker 1: we already have an LA Bureau producer. And I said,

974
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 1: I know. That's what makes this conversation so awkward, you know,

975
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 1: and said, I tell you what you know. I didn't

976
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: want to take away the LA producer's job. I wanted

977
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 1: to add another one. And he said, well, I tell

978
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 1: you what, give me two more years and we'll see

979
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 1: how it goes. And if by then you haven't become

980
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 1: LA Bureau producer, then you can quit and move on.

981
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 1: And what will you have really lost? And I thought, well,

982
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: two years in my twenties. So I gave him my notice.

983
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 1: He called me impatient. I said, yes, you're right, I'm impatient.

984
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 1: Gave him my notice for how much time I needed,

985
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: and I left and I moved cross country, and they

986
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,320
Speaker 1: called me crazy. I mean, it was a fantastic job.

987
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: When I arrived five days later in southern California not

988
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: knowing what I was going to do. I knew I

989
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 1: wasn't going to shovel snow, but I didn't know what

990
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 1: I was going to do. And this, by the way,

991
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 1: ties back to reckless versus worth it because I was

992
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 1: only worried about myself. I didn't have a family that

993
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: so that's what I made this worth it for me.

994
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 1: It would have been terribly reckless if I did it

995
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 1: later in my life. When I arrived back, ESPN hired

996
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: me back to do a few things. At the end

997
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 1: of the year. I had doubled my ESPN salary by

998
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: making that move, and and I was playing beach volleyball

999
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: with my pager on the net. And I learned then

1000
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: that by making a move that was not motivated by money,

1001
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:37,359
Speaker 1: it was motivated by my life. Because people always want

1002
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,479
Speaker 1: to talk about their job, and I say, your job

1003
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: is only a part of your life. What do you

1004
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: want your days and nights to look like? When I

1005
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: started thinking about my life and what I wanted it

1006
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: to look like my job got better, my salary doubled.

1007
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 1: I was more fit because I was playing beach volleyball

1008
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 1: a year round, and I was a happier person. And

1009
00:52:56,239 --> 00:53:00,360
Speaker 1: that's when I really learned that the two lives, the

1010
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: one you're living and the one you wish you were living,

1011
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 1: they're possible if you're able to filter out everything else

1012
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 1: that doesn't interfere with that one goal.

1013
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 2: That is freaking awesome. I just thought as you were

1014
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 2: talking there, two things just popped into my head as

1015
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 2: this this subtitle of your book, right, cultivating audacity subtitle

1016
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 2: number one. If you're not living on the edge of

1017
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 2: the envelope, you're taking up too much room, right, And

1018
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 2: subtitle number two, which will probably be the subtitle of

1019
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 2: my next book, Cultivating Audacity, subtitle number two. Because no

1020
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 2: one's coming to sort your shit out.

1021
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 1: Oh I love it. I love it, and I love

1022
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:43,760
Speaker 1: that that will be your book because nobody is coming

1023
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 1: to save you.

1024
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1025
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 1: No, that's right. You're miserable. I mean, if you're not

1026
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 1: happy with your life, what does that feel like to

1027
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: everybody around you? And what are you doing? What are

1028
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:56,320
Speaker 1: you doing if you're you're not enjoying I understand not

1029
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 1: everybody has the same gifts in the same situation. So

1030
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 1: it's just about improving whatever situation you're in in a

1031
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 1: way that lets you be more open and contributing to

1032
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 1: the world, because that's what you're supposed to be doing, is.

1033
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 2: Contributing joy somehow, absolutely one hundred percent. And I often said,

1034
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 2: when I particularly I hear people compleatan, I go to

1035
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 2: myself that scientists reckon that your chances have ever been

1036
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 2: born are about one in four hundred trillion. Start start

1037
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 2: bloody acting like it, right wow, And if you want

1038
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:35,760
Speaker 2: to start acting like it, get this book Cultivating Audacity

1039
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,359
Speaker 2: by Anne Marie Anderson. Now I believe it's not yet.

1040
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 2: I'm resent is it on pre order on Amazon.

1041
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 1: It's not pre order at Amazon. It's available January first,

1042
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. But you can pre order it now

1043
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 1: and just start learning a little bit about audacity and

1044
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: follow me on Instagram and such where I'm getting a

1045
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: little previous.

1046
00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:00,399
Speaker 2: And i'd actually this may be out around the exact time,

1047
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,360
Speaker 2: so it may actually be on order depending on the

1048
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 2: release date of this. So other than Cultivating Audacity getting

1049
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 2: it on Amazon, where else can people go? Website if

1050
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 2: they want to book you for speaking, Instagram, any of

1051
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 2: the socials, just let us know.

1052
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: Thank you. My website is Annmrie Anderson dot com, a

1053
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:22,399
Speaker 1: n n E and you can find me also on

1054
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 1: Instagram and Marie Anderson TV or Cultivating Audacity on Instagram,

1055
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:31,400
Speaker 1: Facebook all the same things as well, and I'd love

1056
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:33,720
Speaker 1: to hear from you. I'm pretty good about responding to people.

1057
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 1: I love getting people lit up about their lives and

1058
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: cultivating audacity I give real systems, real steps to get

1059
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 1: you there. It's not just sitting back and dreaming about

1060
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 1: what you want your life to look like. It's how

1061
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 1: to get from here to there. Yeah.

1062
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 2: I love it, absolutely love it, and many many people

1063
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:50,799
Speaker 2: need to read that book. I'm ready. Thank you for

1064
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 2: your time and your expertise and for actually taking all

1065
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 2: of that expertise in your career and putting it into

1066
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 2: one manual for life people can use to get to

1067
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:02,839
Speaker 2: where they want to be.

1068
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me on a fascinating discussion.

1069
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:07,399
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed talking with people.