1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,360 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview, I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,730 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. Australian farmers are already some of the most tech 3 00:00:09,730 --> 00:00:13,230 Sean Aylmer: savvy, innovative operators you'll come across. I've spoken about this 4 00:00:13,230 --> 00:00:16,010 Sean Aylmer: before about how they embrace new technology and new ways 5 00:00:16,010 --> 00:00:19,500 Sean Aylmer: of operating to help run their businesses more efficiently. Now, 6 00:00:19,500 --> 00:00:22,169 Sean Aylmer: a group of landowners and farmers are banding together to 7 00:00:22,170 --> 00:00:25,329 Sean Aylmer: make the most of a new market in agriculture; the 8 00:00:25,329 --> 00:00:28,250 Sean Aylmer: carbon market. Rohan Clarke is one of the founders of 9 00:00:28,250 --> 00:00:31,240 Sean Aylmer: Regen Farmers Mutual. Rohan, welcome to Fear and Greed. 10 00:00:31,540 --> 00:00:33,809 Rohan Clarke: Thanks, Sean. Pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. 11 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,680 Sean Aylmer: Not at all. Now tell me, how does Regen work? 12 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:37,530 Sean Aylmer: Explain it to me. 13 00:00:37,950 --> 00:00:40,920 Rohan Clarke: Oh, at its simplest, what the Regen Farmers Mutual is 14 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,830 Rohan Clarke: doing is enabling farmers to come together to create their 15 00:00:43,830 --> 00:00:48,040 Rohan Clarke: own farmer- owned infrastructure to enable them to engage in 16 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,430 Rohan Clarke: environmental markets so they can retain more value and more control. 17 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,790 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So, bringing farmers together. Presumably these aren't the very 18 00:00:54,930 --> 00:00:57,930 Sean Aylmer: big farms, these are the next level down, is that right? 19 00:00:58,250 --> 00:01:01,180 Rohan Clarke: 100%. The bigger guys can look after themselves but it's 20 00:01:01,470 --> 00:01:05,880 Rohan Clarke: the non- corporate farmer who really can't access these markets 21 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,410 Rohan Clarke: currently because of the way that the market failure that 22 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:12,330 Rohan Clarke: exists. And so, by coming together and creating their own 23 00:01:12,330 --> 00:01:16,319 Rohan Clarke: institutional entity that they control, they can then better engage in 24 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:16,730 Rohan Clarke: the market. 25 00:01:17,150 --> 00:01:19,770 Sean Aylmer: Okay. And so exactly what is the market you're talking about? 26 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,110 Rohan Clarke: Well, to begin with, it's carbon and biodiversity, but the 27 00:01:23,110 --> 00:01:26,520 Rohan Clarke: carbon market was all of 220 million last year, and 28 00:01:26,590 --> 00:01:28,970 Rohan Clarke: it's expected that the market's going to grow to 10 29 00:01:28,970 --> 00:01:32,369 Rohan Clarke: to 24 billion, according to the Carbon Market Institute, by 2030. 30 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,610 Rohan Clarke: So, the market's growing in size and in types. So; 31 00:01:36,610 --> 00:01:41,850 Rohan Clarke: biodiversity, flood resilience, drought resilience. These are all emerging environmental markets. 32 00:01:42,100 --> 00:01:43,410 Sean Aylmer: Okay. You're going to have to break this down for 33 00:01:43,410 --> 00:01:45,580 Sean Aylmer: me because I'm talking about something I know very little 34 00:01:45,580 --> 00:01:49,710 Sean Aylmer: about. When you're talking 10 to 24, these are carbon 35 00:01:49,710 --> 00:01:51,830 Sean Aylmer: offsets potentially? Is that what we're measuring? 36 00:01:52,350 --> 00:01:56,410 Rohan Clarke: Carbon offsets, but the way the market's growing, buyers are looking 37 00:01:56,410 --> 00:01:58,840 Rohan Clarke: for more than just carbon offsets. They're looking for a 38 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:00,700 Rohan Clarke: story that goes with it. So, they might be looking 39 00:02:00,700 --> 00:02:03,470 Rohan Clarke: for biodiversity to go along with it or they might 40 00:02:03,470 --> 00:02:06,460 Rohan Clarke: be looking for a whole of farm outcomes, that they 41 00:02:06,460 --> 00:02:09,050 Rohan Clarke: know that animal welfare is being looked after on the farm. 42 00:02:09,510 --> 00:02:13,429 Rohan Clarke: So, these other benefits, they're called co- benefits, are getting 43 00:02:13,430 --> 00:02:16,590 Rohan Clarke: bundled into carbon markets so that when a farmer enters 44 00:02:16,590 --> 00:02:19,209 Rohan Clarke: into a transaction, they're actually selling more than just carbon. 45 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:21,770 Rohan Clarke: They're overall land management practices. 46 00:02:22,090 --> 00:02:26,280 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So, who are they selling that to? The land management practices, 47 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:30,400 Sean Aylmer: biodiversity, carbon credits effectively; who are they actually selling that to? 48 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,600 Rohan Clarke: Good question. So, up until now, the carbon market has 49 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,790 Rohan Clarke: been dominated by government, so the Commonwealth Government in particular, 50 00:02:37,790 --> 00:02:41,290 Rohan Clarke: through the Emissions Reduction Fund. So, they bought 95% of 51 00:02:41,290 --> 00:02:45,020 Rohan Clarke: all carbon last year in Australia. The world's changing though 52 00:02:45,290 --> 00:02:50,280 Rohan Clarke: as consumers and employees of large companies demand that more 53 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,160 Rohan Clarke: responsible actions, I guess, with respect to how we treat 54 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:57,540 Rohan Clarke: our environment. So, there's this wall of interest and demand 55 00:02:57,540 --> 00:03:02,120 Rohan Clarke: coming from non- government buyers, corporates, institutions with respect to 56 00:03:02,580 --> 00:03:08,579 Rohan Clarke: carbon offsets, but also biodiversity protection. Coles, for example, or 57 00:03:08,580 --> 00:03:13,360 Rohan Clarke: Woolies; they recognize that their consumers have difficulty with the 58 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,820 Rohan Clarke: abstract concept of a carbon credit, but they understand that, " 59 00:03:17,139 --> 00:03:19,480 Rohan Clarke: Yes, if you're doing good on your farm, that's something 60 00:03:19,550 --> 00:03:21,210 Rohan Clarke: we can sell to our consumers." 61 00:03:22,300 --> 00:03:25,329 Sean Aylmer: It's very interesting. We don't talk about emissions trading schemes 62 00:03:25,330 --> 00:03:27,970 Sean Aylmer: or things like that in Australia anymore, though perhaps we 63 00:03:27,970 --> 00:03:30,970 Sean Aylmer: should. But in a sense, it's that by stealth, in 64 00:03:30,970 --> 00:03:31,329 Sean Aylmer: a way. 65 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:36,089 Rohan Clarke: Agreed, agreed. The federal government, for example, really wants to 66 00:03:36,090 --> 00:03:38,880 Rohan Clarke: see the market grow beyond them being the only buyer 67 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,830 Rohan Clarke: in the market. So, they've got initiatives underway to promote 68 00:03:41,830 --> 00:03:45,310 Rohan Clarke: that. But we see that farmers coming together to create 69 00:03:45,310 --> 00:03:49,680 Rohan Clarke: their own entity and create that institutional structure as being 70 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,350 Rohan Clarke: a really catalytic factor that helps to unlock this market. 71 00:03:53,930 --> 00:03:57,100 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So, what are the opportunities for the farmers and the land owners here? 72 00:03:57,580 --> 00:03:59,770 Rohan Clarke: Well, it really depends on the size and location of 73 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,619 Rohan Clarke: your land, of course. So, a property in Byron Bay 74 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:05,480 Rohan Clarke: is going to look very different to a property in 75 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,520 Rohan Clarke: Holbrook with respect to the things that one, their farming 76 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,480 Rohan Clarke: or the way that they're using their land, and two, 77 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:15,100 Rohan Clarke: that the actual landscape itself. Depending on your land, it 78 00:04:15,100 --> 00:04:17,900 Rohan Clarke: may be that by planting trees you can access standing 79 00:04:17,900 --> 00:04:21,320 Rohan Clarke: carbon or carbon offset markets. But it may be that 80 00:04:21,660 --> 00:04:25,600 Rohan Clarke: a farmer can simply get financed into creating a biodiversity 81 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,919 Rohan Clarke: zone around their dam, for example, and ANU Sustainable Farms 82 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,460 Rohan Clarke: have done some great work around that. The benefits that 83 00:04:31,460 --> 00:04:34,070 Rohan Clarke: can be created through investing in your dam, basically, and 84 00:04:34,430 --> 00:04:37,500 Rohan Clarke: we can see that there's ways that the environmental markets, 85 00:04:37,500 --> 00:04:39,950 Rohan Clarke: for example, can finance farmers to do that type of 86 00:04:39,950 --> 00:04:41,030 Rohan Clarke: thing on farms. 87 00:04:41,390 --> 00:04:44,790 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So, the bottom line really, is hopefully it makes 88 00:04:44,790 --> 00:04:48,370 Sean Aylmer: money for farmers; be that in the short- term, by 89 00:04:48,450 --> 00:04:52,590 Sean Aylmer: effectively selling carbon offsets, or the long- term by investing 90 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:57,410 Sean Aylmer: in biodiversity and increasing output on the farm. 91 00:04:57,750 --> 00:05:01,800 Rohan Clarke: Absolutely. Absolutely. In some senses, the environmental markets are a 92 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,490 Rohan Clarke: transition because we can see that in five to 10 93 00:05:05,490 --> 00:05:08,360 Rohan Clarke: years time, every farmer in Australia is going to be 94 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,849 Rohan Clarke: held accountable for their farming practices, and that they'll be 95 00:05:11,850 --> 00:05:16,410 Rohan Clarke: held accountable effectively through their produce. So, that's the difference 96 00:05:16,410 --> 00:05:18,850 Rohan Clarke: between a free range egg and a barn laid egg. 97 00:05:19,089 --> 00:05:22,450 Rohan Clarke: There'll be a price difference. And the way that you are held accountable 98 00:05:22,450 --> 00:05:25,640 Rohan Clarke: is through your land management practices as captured in your 99 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,900 Rohan Clarke: data. And so we see that, again, this idea of 100 00:05:28,900 --> 00:05:32,790 Rohan Clarke: creating a farmer- owned vehicle that can control and own 101 00:05:32,790 --> 00:05:35,990 Rohan Clarke: the digital platform that enables the management of that data, 102 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,200 Rohan Clarke: that demonstrates good practice, is going to be path critical; 103 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,400 Rohan Clarke: because there'll be three or four major players and we 104 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,010 Rohan Clarke: think a farmer- owned one should be one of them 105 00:05:43,290 --> 00:05:44,820 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Rohan. We'll be back in a minute. 106 00:05:50,130 --> 00:05:53,860 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Rohan Clarke from Regen Farmers Mutual. Okay, 107 00:05:53,860 --> 00:05:56,310 Sean Aylmer: so there's obviously going to be a big digital component 108 00:05:56,390 --> 00:06:00,150 Sean Aylmer: here. You're talking about data there. And the further we 109 00:06:00,150 --> 00:06:02,940 Sean Aylmer: go down this path, the more important data is for 110 00:06:02,940 --> 00:06:05,539 Sean Aylmer: people to be accountable on both sides of the transaction. 111 00:06:05,980 --> 00:06:09,330 Sean Aylmer: How much of what you're doing is focused on that 112 00:06:09,330 --> 00:06:10,180 Sean Aylmer: digital component? 113 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,060 Rohan Clarke: It's quite strong. There's two major parts that we're doing. 114 00:06:14,060 --> 00:06:17,190 Rohan Clarke: But data is key, as we've just discussed, because data 115 00:06:17,610 --> 00:06:20,210 Rohan Clarke: is what ultimately proves that a farmer's doing good on 116 00:06:20,210 --> 00:06:22,810 Rohan Clarke: farm. It's through that data. So, that's why we see 117 00:06:22,810 --> 00:06:25,040 Rohan Clarke: it's key, and it's key that farmers have control of 118 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:29,969 Rohan Clarke: that, which under existing systems, we all tend to get 119 00:06:29,970 --> 00:06:33,020 Rohan Clarke: platformed and our data disappears and is managed by someone 120 00:06:33,020 --> 00:06:35,710 Rohan Clarke: else. So, it is key. But the other part to 121 00:06:35,710 --> 00:06:38,810 Rohan Clarke: it is that the Mutual itself is a farmer- owned broker, 122 00:06:39,020 --> 00:06:41,680 Rohan Clarke: and so it helps to educate farmers and then take 123 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,409 Rohan Clarke: them through the process whereby they can access these markets, 124 00:06:44,410 --> 00:06:47,750 Rohan Clarke: whether it's through green providence markets or through carbon markets. 125 00:06:48,170 --> 00:06:51,500 Rohan Clarke: And so, a key part sounding here today is farmers look 126 00:06:51,500 --> 00:06:55,380 Rohan Clarke: at it and there's a dizzying array of information coming their way. 127 00:06:55,900 --> 00:06:58,160 Rohan Clarke: So, a key part of creating a farmer- owned mutual 128 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,680 Rohan Clarke: is to provide the mechanisms to enable farmers to easily 129 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,950 Rohan Clarke: learn what it is that this market's about. And then over 130 00:07:05,950 --> 00:07:08,420 Rohan Clarke: time, understand what the opportunities are for them actually to 131 00:07:08,420 --> 00:07:09,350 Rohan Clarke: engage in the market. 132 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,480 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Now, I've discussed farming before. And the farmers I 133 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,860 Sean Aylmer: know from where I grew up, they're incredibly savvy. I 134 00:07:16,860 --> 00:07:18,880 Sean Aylmer: mean, they're intelligent, but they're just savvy. And I don't 135 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:20,460 Sean Aylmer: know whether they're sitting on their headers at the moment, 136 00:07:20,570 --> 00:07:23,500 Sean Aylmer: hopefully the rain stopped and they're sitting on their headers 137 00:07:23,500 --> 00:07:26,150 Sean Aylmer: thinking about this sort of stuff; how many are actually 138 00:07:26,150 --> 00:07:29,240 Sean Aylmer: involved? There must be a huge market of farmers who 139 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,530 Sean Aylmer: could become involved in this. What's the take up like 140 00:07:32,530 --> 00:07:33,050 Sean Aylmer: at the moment? 141 00:07:33,550 --> 00:07:36,760 Rohan Clarke: This process started about 18 months ago, and it started through... 142 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,870 Rohan Clarke: Under the federal government's corporate program, we ran three series' 143 00:07:40,870 --> 00:07:45,290 Rohan Clarke: of co- design workshops. 12 in total, I think. And 144 00:07:45,290 --> 00:07:49,170 Rohan Clarke: through that process, we had 80 farmers and government organizations 145 00:07:49,180 --> 00:07:52,640 Rohan Clarke: and conservations come together to understand the problem and then 146 00:07:52,770 --> 00:07:56,240 Rohan Clarke: ultimately design what has become the mutual. So, that was the 147 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,310 Rohan Clarke: start of the process. When you look at what this 148 00:07:58,310 --> 00:08:01,030 Rohan Clarke: thing is, you'll see written into the principles of the 149 00:08:01,030 --> 00:08:05,160 Rohan Clarke: constitution, it's actually embedded that it's farmer- owned and led. 150 00:08:05,250 --> 00:08:07,760 Rohan Clarke: And so then, in terms of the mutual itself was 151 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:09,970 Rohan Clarke: created in July, but it's not being launched till next 152 00:08:09,970 --> 00:08:13,260 Rohan Clarke: year. But in anticipation of the launch, we've created a waiting list 153 00:08:13,260 --> 00:08:16,540 Rohan Clarke: for its onboarding product, which enables farmers to get that 154 00:08:16,540 --> 00:08:19,670 Rohan Clarke: first understanding of what the opportunities are on their farm. 155 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:19,920 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 156 00:08:19,990 --> 00:08:22,220 Rohan Clarke: Anyway, that was a long- winded of saying there's a 157 00:08:22,220 --> 00:08:24,620 Rohan Clarke: wait list for that product. We opened about six weeks 158 00:08:24,620 --> 00:08:28,320 Rohan Clarke: ago and there's 260 farmers on that. 2, 3, 4 farmers 159 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,440 Rohan Clarke: join a day, we're not talking to anyone about it 160 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:34,120 Rohan Clarke: currently. To us, that's indicative that there's demand. We have 161 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:38,550 Rohan Clarke: also relationships with like of Agforce in Queensland, Landcare Vic 162 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,390 Rohan Clarke: and Landcare New South Wales, Landcare networks. And so, it's 163 00:08:42,420 --> 00:08:45,390 Rohan Clarke: through those mechanisms that will be actually engaging farmers on 164 00:08:45,390 --> 00:08:48,520 Rohan Clarke: the ground because the idea is it's a distributed organization. 165 00:08:48,750 --> 00:08:52,910 Rohan Clarke: It uses existing farmer organizations to engage with farmers on 166 00:08:52,910 --> 00:08:53,330 Rohan Clarke: the ground. 167 00:08:53,790 --> 00:08:56,770 Sean Aylmer: Rohan, you were an investment banker, I believe, and now 168 00:08:56,770 --> 00:08:59,120 Sean Aylmer: you've ended up here. How did you end up... I 169 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,439 Sean Aylmer: mean, this is great. I'm loving this. I love talking 170 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,809 Sean Aylmer: to people that I'm learning stuff from and being educated. So, I'm 171 00:09:04,809 --> 00:09:06,809 Sean Aylmer: very enthusiastic about this, but how did you go from 172 00:09:06,809 --> 00:09:07,900 Sean Aylmer: investment banking to this? 173 00:09:07,900 --> 00:09:11,719 Rohan Clarke: I fell out of love of investment banking around about 174 00:09:11,770 --> 00:09:14,440 Rohan Clarke: 2007. I went through that classic... 175 00:09:14,690 --> 00:09:16,760 Sean Aylmer: You weren't on your own back then. You weren't on 176 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:17,650 Sean Aylmer: your own back then, I got to say. 177 00:09:17,650 --> 00:09:22,350 Rohan Clarke: Yeah. So, I had 20 odd years seeing up a 178 00:09:22,350 --> 00:09:25,670 Rohan Clarke: commodity desk. Started at the corporate finance division, worked in 179 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,030 Rohan Clarke: the boutique investment bank that was sold to Lehman Brothers. I 180 00:09:29,030 --> 00:09:30,900 Rohan Clarke: entered a journey where that was how I ended up 181 00:09:30,900 --> 00:09:32,770 Rohan Clarke: working in the mutual and cooperative sector, because I was 182 00:09:32,770 --> 00:09:35,559 Rohan Clarke: really particularly interested in understanding how stakeholder could have a 183 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:37,920 Rohan Clarke: real stake in their business. And so, I've done a 184 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:39,500 Rohan Clarke: lot of work in that space, worked with the peak 185 00:09:39,500 --> 00:09:41,900 Rohan Clarke: body and worked with on pharma data cols for quite 186 00:09:41,900 --> 00:09:45,150 Rohan Clarke: some time with likes of Virgin cropping group. In addition 187 00:09:45,260 --> 00:09:49,099 Rohan Clarke: to that, I was providing advice to Trust for Nature, with 188 00:09:49,100 --> 00:09:51,880 Rohan Clarke: respect to conservation finance. So, looking at how to expand 189 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,800 Rohan Clarke: markets beyond carbon. And through that mechanism, this year came 190 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,170 Rohan Clarke: to the fore. I've got a good mate who's the co- 191 00:09:58,170 --> 00:10:01,270 Rohan Clarke: founder of Regen Farmers Mutual. He has a regen farming 192 00:10:01,270 --> 00:10:04,220 Rohan Clarke: background. And between us, we had this conversation and this 193 00:10:04,220 --> 00:10:07,530 Rohan Clarke: realization that there was potentially a real need and opportunity 194 00:10:07,630 --> 00:10:10,910 Rohan Clarke: to create this Regen Farmers Mutual. So, that's the genesis 195 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:12,130 Rohan Clarke: of the idea, really. 196 00:10:12,260 --> 00:10:12,450 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 197 00:10:12,450 --> 00:10:15,270 Rohan Clarke: The coming together of various backgrounds. 198 00:10:15,770 --> 00:10:18,030 Sean Aylmer: Well, Rohan, good luck with it, and thank you for 199 00:10:18,030 --> 00:10:18,730 Sean Aylmer: talking to Fear and Greed. 200 00:10:19,460 --> 00:10:20,360 Rohan Clarke: Thank you very much, Sean. 201 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:22,959 Sean Aylmer: That was Rohan Clarke, one of the founders of Regen 202 00:10:23,290 --> 00:10:26,809 Sean Aylmer: Farmers Mutual and the managing director of Regen Digital. This 203 00:10:26,809 --> 00:10:29,120 Sean Aylmer: is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join me every 204 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,179 Sean Aylmer: morning for the full Fear and Greed podcast with all 205 00:10:31,179 --> 00:10:33,720 Sean Aylmer: the business news you need to know. I'm Sean Aylmer, 206 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:34,630 Sean Aylmer: enjoy your day.