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Speaker 1: Richard de Krepney, Straight Talk mate.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Mark, great to be here.

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Speaker 1: Now. We did something and many many years ago. I

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Speaker 1: think it was the Mike Boris Show, but this is

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Speaker 1: straight Talk. It's a different show. And it's actually timely

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Speaker 1: that you're in here. I mean, you've got for a

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Speaker 1: couple of reasons, and we want to talk again about

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Speaker 1: your book that you released man years ago. I want

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Speaker 1: to talk to you about the sorts of presentations you

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Speaker 1: make around leadership and teamwork, et cetera, because I think

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Speaker 1: it's really important for people to know about that stuff

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Speaker 1: right at the moment, especially, But also, and I know

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Speaker 1: you've got a new podcast called fly and we want

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Speaker 1: to talk about we were talking earlier, but you know,

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Speaker 1: podcasts are tough things to do, so we'll.

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Speaker 2: Talk about they're very tough.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about fly back. But I just want to

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Speaker 1: talk to you about aeroplanes and or commercial aeroplanes, and

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Speaker 1: wouldn't mind touching on private aircraft as well, because I've

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Speaker 1: got a mate who's got private aircraft which he least

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Speaker 1: out to anyone who wants to use it. So and

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Speaker 1: I think Australians travel more now than we ever have

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Speaker 1: in the past.

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Speaker 2: I have going to stats to prove mediations growing fifteen percent.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in terms of number of aeroplanes.

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Speaker 2: Nineteen seventies, aeroplanes can't keep up passengers travel, so everything

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Speaker 2: is congested airports, airspace, not enough and not enough aircraft.

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Speaker 2: Some of the new engines have been pushed so hard

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Speaker 2: they're not working. So some of the altar tech is

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Speaker 2: actually better than they need.

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Speaker 1: Really.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, the airline is actually saying, can we please

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Speaker 2: go back to the previous generation of engines because the

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Speaker 2: new generation engines. You see, everyone's trying to outdo the

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Speaker 2: next manufacture of engines. They say, I'm going to promise

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Speaker 2: five percent on the last engine. They're pushing these engines

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Speaker 2: to the max, and now they're going too far. Gearboxes,

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Speaker 2: turbine blades are overheating, these sort of things are happening

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Speaker 2: and a lot of engines are being grounded. The aircraft

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Speaker 2: is still safe because you have recording systems that show

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Speaker 2: a degradation over time, so they can predict that the

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Speaker 2: engine's going to have a problem enough one hundred hours,

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Speaker 2: one thousand hours, so they take them offline before they failed.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully, Yeah, they do.

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Speaker 2: Only they do, and they repair them. But a lot

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Speaker 2: of engines are grounded around the world, causing troubles for

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Speaker 2: the new as to twenty for seven eight sevens for

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Speaker 2: the for the ABU seventh, all aircraft having problems getting

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Speaker 2: enough engines from the manufacturers. The old engines are working

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Speaker 2: reliably long time, the new engines are having trouble bedding

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Speaker 2: in so.

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Speaker 1: Now, and I will declare front, I am a nervous traveler,

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Speaker 1: so whether it's commercial, private, And if I had a choice,

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Speaker 1: i'd actually if I had to go to say coins

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Speaker 1: and I'd rather if I had time, would rather drive.

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Speaker 1: And I don't mind the drive actually, but as opposed

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Speaker 1: to taking the risk for inconvenience. For convenience, I should say,

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Speaker 1: which is traveling by plane. And I'm someone who travels

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Speaker 1: literally every week somewhere every week, sometimes twice. So just this,

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Speaker 1: I do want to talk to you. But the first

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Speaker 1: thing I want to cover off is Q thirty two is.

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Speaker 2: Thirty that's QF thirty two. That's right.

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Speaker 1: That that was about fifteen years ago, right, and that

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Speaker 1: was your flight in Singapore changed my life. Let's just

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Speaker 1: take me through what happened again, take an audience through

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Speaker 1: what happened on q F thirty two.

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Speaker 2: Okay, it was a routine flight from Singapore to Sydney,

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Speaker 2: the fourth November two thousand and ten. So we're coming

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Speaker 2: up for fifteen years and we're we're four minutes after

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Speaker 2: tay coof engine number two exploded.

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Speaker 1: Got four engines, four.

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Speaker 2: Engines on this A three eighty. The biggest, most wonderful

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Speaker 2: aircraft in the sky is that you say that absolutely

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Speaker 2: still still the most remarkable aircraft. Three eighty and the

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Speaker 2: A three eighty the quietest, smoothest.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to ride that down for myself because I'm

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Speaker 1: always on three eighty.

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Speaker 2: People will divert one thousand miles to start their journey

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Speaker 2: just to pick up an A three eighty. It is

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Speaker 2: so quiet compared to the say seven three seven, it's

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Speaker 2: about four times one quarter of the noise, okay, it is.

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Speaker 2: It is. So it was so quiet on that A

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Speaker 2: three eighty that day that when engine number two explode

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Speaker 2: to four minutes after takeoff, one passenger didn't even know

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Speaker 2: we're in the air. He thought we'd hit a pothole

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Speaker 2: on the runway. So it's really quiet, powerful, spacious, you

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Speaker 2: don't get chastrophobic. It's not too big in terms of

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Speaker 2: open spaces, so the passengers love it. If you have

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Speaker 2: a fear of flying, you're going to love the three

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Speaker 2: eighty because it calms your nerves. If you get onto

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Speaker 2: a seven three seven that has up to ninety five

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Speaker 2: decibels of noise, then that would really make you nervous,

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Speaker 2: even for a takeoff, and it's about eighty five decibels

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Speaker 2: and the cruise which is safe for no more than

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Speaker 2: eight hours in the workplace. I mean, the seven three

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Speaker 2: seven is a great aeroplane, but a first flew before

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Speaker 2: Neil Armstrong landed on the moon. You notice first for

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Speaker 2: the in nineteen sixty seven, Wow, and the derived versions

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Speaker 2: from that, but that core technology. Imagine taking a nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixties Ford Mustang and saying what.

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Speaker 1: A great car actually was a nine sixty six Ford

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Speaker 1: must say? Was it bloody? Your car?

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Speaker 2: Great car? Let's keep it, and now let's convert it.

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Speaker 2: Just do a few moods over the last forty and

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Speaker 2: let's turn it into an F one racing car.

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Speaker 1: Right? Okay? Could you would you?

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Speaker 2: No? That's what you're right? So the seven three seven

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Speaker 2: needs a total rebuild, and there's a lesson. A concept

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Speaker 2: in management called constructive destruction, You get rid of things

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Speaker 2: to use the new tech to build something newer. You

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Speaker 2: don't sit on your laurels. You have to keep changing

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Speaker 2: and adapting. That's manufacturing.

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Speaker 1: What was the Southwest one of the thi's at Southwest

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Speaker 1: or Southwest seven.

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Speaker 2: They didn't want constructive destruction. They had six hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty seven three seven I remember it. So they made

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Speaker 2: a deal with Boeing that that if we don't want

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Speaker 2: to have to do a differences course for all our pilots,

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Speaker 2: so we want the same pilots to get one course

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Speaker 2: of seven three seven for all those versions since nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixty seven, and we don't want to have a difference's course.

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Speaker 2: That gave pressure for Boeing to not change the cockpit.

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Speaker 2: It meant they really couldn't bring in fly By wy

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Speaker 2: benefits because if they did, they have to change the

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Speaker 2: cockpit there'd be a difference's course. So there was actually

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Speaker 2: a lot of pressure by Southwest Airlines to have Boeing

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Speaker 2: do what they did, which was in retrospect terrible, but

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Speaker 2: in any business it's not right. You should you should

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Speaker 2: get rid of the old tech and bring in a

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Speaker 2: new airbus. Brought in fly By Wy in nineteen eighty.

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Speaker 1: Four fly By Wy fly by Why let.

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Speaker 2: Mean in your car, you have you accelerator pedal, you

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Speaker 2: push it down and linkages, bell, cranks and cables move

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Speaker 2: from that accelerator pedal go to the carburettor to let

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Speaker 2: more feel into the car. It's fine, but actually when

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Speaker 2: they built the concord, the fuselage stretches one foot in

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Speaker 2: the crewise because the aircraft gets so hot, so linkages

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Speaker 2: and cables can't stretch one one foot. So they when

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Speaker 2: they built the car court they said, we can't use

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Speaker 2: these old systems. So they've built a digital action though

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Speaker 2: it was an analog fly by Wy. So you have

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Speaker 2: a sensor on the accelerator pedal, the sensor signal that

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Speaker 2: goes to a distant actuator that will move to change

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Speaker 2: the field. Thing.

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Speaker 1: Actually this is being opens and closes.

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Speaker 2: It opens and closes valve like a valve, a valve.

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Speaker 2: It's the thing that a light. So the concept is

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Speaker 2: that that you are now separated. There is no direct

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Speaker 2: connection other than electrical from the app from what you're

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Speaker 2: pressing to what happens at the far end. That gives

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Speaker 2: you amazing ability to interfere or intercept that signal a

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Speaker 2: value to it or to modify it. So, in terms

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Speaker 2: of aircraft, what the pilots do with the thrust levers

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Speaker 2: and the side stick, they are inputs into computers that

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Speaker 2: massage them. If the computers think you're not doing the

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Speaker 2: right thing, they might even override it. The computers in

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Speaker 2: an F sixteen F twenty two, F thirty five. If

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Speaker 2: the pilots don't evo the ground, the compute and these

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Speaker 2: fighter aircraft are meant to be close to the ground.

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Speaker 2: But if the computer thinks they're going to hit the ground,

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Speaker 2: the computer interferes, takes over and pulls them away from

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Speaker 2: the ground. It's an override. Interesting, maybe the pilots in

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Speaker 2: Ukraine turned that overright off when they started flying. If

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Speaker 2: sixteens in.

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Speaker 1: Ukraine, you can't turn that right off.

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Speaker 2: A lot of F sixteens were crashing from pilots, and

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Speaker 2: particularly in F sixteens, they pull so much g that

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Speaker 2: the blood wouldn't get to the head. The blackout and

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Speaker 2: if they're close to the ground, they die. So when

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Speaker 2: they put in their software to predict whether they'd hit

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Speaker 2: the ground and to stop them hitting the ground, or

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Speaker 2: to get to a safe place, all the deaths from

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Speaker 2: accidental flying into terrain virtually stopped, and that that is

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Speaker 2: now accepted software through all the fighters in America. The

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Speaker 2: pilots agree that that intervention is actually very good.

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Speaker 1: Is there something similar in the commercial world, like an override?

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Speaker 1: Not yet? Why not?

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Speaker 2: Not yet? Well, even in the Air Force when they

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Speaker 2: first tried to introduce this for the fighters in the

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Speaker 2: American Air Force in two thousand and five, the pilot said, no,

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Speaker 2: we're not going to have a computer takeover from us.

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Speaker 2: We don't trust it. And that's what a lot of

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Speaker 2: people fear about, let's say AI or computers or fly

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Speaker 2: by wy They think they don't want to seed control

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Speaker 2: to a computer. And the Air Force sat back for

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Speaker 2: about ten years and said, okay, let's see if you

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Speaker 2: can stop killing yourself in these f sixteens. They didn't,

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Speaker 2: So the Air Force said, okay, we're forcing it on you.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: You will have it. We'll give you feedback as to

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Speaker 2: how anxious this software is it. If it's so, you'll

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Speaker 2: know if it's about to interrupt. So you've got feedback.

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Speaker 2: You're getting facts about what the thing's thinking. And then

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Speaker 2: if you still ignore those warnings, it will eventually take over,

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Speaker 2: and by twenty fifteen the policy said yes, please, let's

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Speaker 2: have it, and now we'll the aircraft have it. So

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Speaker 2: again we're talking about fly by wire. The pilots might

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Speaker 2: be requesting something the computers interrupt to get you to

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Speaker 2: a safe place because maybe you're doing something reckless, or

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Speaker 2: maybe you're unconscious and you're about to die. It took

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Speaker 2: long time to build up that trust, and in some

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Speaker 2: parts of the airbus software they the aircraft will not

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Speaker 2: let you stall the aircraft or stalling is when you

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Speaker 2: get to such a high angle that the air coming

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Speaker 2: of the wing breaks down and you lose lift. So

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Speaker 2: the airbus will protect you from high speed or high

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Speaker 2: angle of attack. None of the aircraft at the moment

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Speaker 2: will interfere and stop you hitting the ground, including the

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Speaker 2: A three eighty, any danisial aircraft, any commercial aircraft. Well,

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Speaker 2: the problem is, you see, and it has gone wrong

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Speaker 2: in one of the A three twenties early on, where

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Speaker 2: the software wouldn't reconfigure and the aircraft the soft they

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Speaker 2: wouldn't let the pilot land to actually the land the

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Speaker 2: A three twenty to shut down an engine. Now that

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Speaker 2: makes no sense other than when you shut down the engine,

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Speaker 2: you shut off these protections so he could land. I'm

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Speaker 2: getting a little bit complicated here, but I'm saying that

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Speaker 2: overall all this software works ninety nine point nine nine

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Speaker 2: percent of the time perfectly. Sometimes there's glitches. But you know,

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Speaker 2: there are five billion people flying every year around the world,

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Speaker 2: forty million.

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Speaker 1: Fils, so that six sticks standard deviations from the mean,

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Speaker 1: which is ninety nine point nine percent of the time.

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Speaker 1: If that's applied one in every million, that means I

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Speaker 1: may say six billion, how many people are flying each.

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Speaker 2: I reckon, we might be I reckon, we might be

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Speaker 2: at six seven eighty six. Well that's sort of because

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Speaker 2: we're getting you're only having two or three aircraft a

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Speaker 2: year crashing. That's about five hundred people. Tragic absolutely for

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Speaker 2: the people killed. But for five hundred people that are

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Speaker 2: killed out of five billion that fly could work at

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Speaker 2: the sigma I just can't do it in my head.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's well, no, that's it's not even one

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Speaker 1: in a million. So yeah, go on, that's good. Then

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Speaker 1: it's good. It's beyond what is General Electric, which is

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Speaker 1: one of the engine makers. It's beyond their so called

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Speaker 1: six sigma test. All right, so in beyond him being better,

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Speaker 1: let's imagine you have a fear of flying, and twenty

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Speaker 1: percent of the people do. What they need to know

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Speaker 1: is facts, because fear is based on not knowing what's

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Speaker 1: not knowing who's in charge. You can't forecast the future,

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Speaker 1: you can't see at the front of the airplane. You

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Speaker 1: don't know who's in charge. Is AI flying aircraft? There's

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Speaker 1: no one to talk to, and there's no one to

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Speaker 1: communicate with. I mean we're used to that in life.

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Speaker 1: If things go wrong with businesses. Now does a website

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Speaker 1: for a business even post the telephone number? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Right, So a lot of people have different anxiety because

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Speaker 2: there's no one taking responsibility. There's no one to talk to,

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Speaker 2: there's no single point of contact and all these uncertainties

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Speaker 2: and maybe there are crashes and it seems unfair and

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Speaker 2: you you imagine the worst if you don't know what's

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Speaker 2: going on. These are all the vectors for fear based

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Speaker 2: on not having facts, so or lack of communication and

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Speaker 2: lack of communication. Absolutely, and if you just give the

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Speaker 2: reason that things happen, and that's what I guess I'm

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Speaker 2: trying to do the reasons, well, you will work out

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Speaker 2: then you'll derive. You do the hard way you derive.

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Speaker 2: We'll give them these reasons. Yes I am safe. So

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Speaker 2: let's I'm going to put it really simply. We talk

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Speaker 2: about risk, and risk is probability of that invent times

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Speaker 2: a consequence.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: Right, Now, let's imagine the consequences the same. Let's imagine

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Speaker 2: the consequences you dying, right.

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Speaker 1: Well, that that has to be. That's the gravity event occurring, right.

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Speaker 2: This is the worst. And now we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about risk, where death is the outcome the consequence. Now,

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Speaker 2: so the risk is equal to the probability because the

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Speaker 2: consequences constant.

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Speaker 1: Frail is much Put that in a bit of different context.

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Speaker 1: The probability of event occurring is equal to the gravity

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Speaker 1: of the event occurring. No, you're not saying.

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Speaker 2: That, no, no, no, The gravity is a consequence a gravity.

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Speaker 2: The consequence is what is the outcome when an event happens.

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Speaker 2: Events can be probable and possible, and that's definite levels

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Speaker 2: of probability of an event happening. But the probability of

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Speaker 2: an asteroid coming through this room is very small. But

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Speaker 2: if it does, the consequence is probably fatal for you

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Speaker 2: in may, right, But the risk is still low because

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Speaker 2: not many asteroids come down through your studio. So we

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Speaker 2: look at risk. So when you look at risk in

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Speaker 2: terms of mortality, there's a thing called a micro mort,

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Speaker 2: and I wrote about this in the second book. So

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Speaker 2: a micromort is one in a million chance of mortality,

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Speaker 2: one in a million chance of dying. When you get

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Speaker 2: onto a horse, you have a one in a million

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Speaker 2: chance of dying from that exposure. One micromort will let

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Speaker 2: you ride a motorbike about eight kilometers. It will you

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Speaker 2: use about use about forty thousand micromorts. If you climb

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Speaker 2: out Everest, one microwap will take you on four hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty scenic railway things. You know we have the

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Speaker 2: roller coasters. They are amazingly safe. Right, So one micromorp

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Speaker 2: will get as a horse ride. One micromort will take

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Speaker 2: you ten thousand kilometers on a commercial aircraft almost to America.

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Speaker 2: Right when you walk into a hospital, the chance of

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Speaker 2: you being killed by an accident or an error, not

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Speaker 2: because you are ill. The chance of you being killed

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Speaker 2: by an accident medical system seven thousand micromorts.

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Speaker 1: In other words, the risk comparison is if you want

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Speaker 1: to be relaxed about these things. Just look at the

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Speaker 1: risk comparison of flying relatives to go walk into a hospital.

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Speaker 2: If you want to be scared, be scared of going

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Speaker 2: to hospital. I think everyone should have a person to

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Speaker 2: be with them, to monitor them, an advocate like one

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Speaker 2: of your friends. Have someone there with you because problem

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Speaker 2: is in medicine is they don't ask enough questions, they

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Speaker 2: don't know enough about you, and they make decisions without

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Speaker 2: knowing the facts. Right. So my point is that that

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Speaker 2: one hospital missions equivalent to about seventy thousand one hour

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Speaker 2: commercial flights.

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Speaker 1: Wow, now are you scared.

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Speaker 2: I'm giving you reasons, They're giving you facts.

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Speaker 1: What's happening now is I'm more scared of going to hospital,

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Speaker 1: but I'm still scared of getting on an aeroplane.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're looking at we're looking at risk, and so yeah,

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Speaker 2: we have to we have the hospital system. There are

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Speaker 2: great people, but it's a broken system. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 2: every they're truly great people in medicine, but a lot

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Speaker 2: of the safety measures in aviation. I'm not present in medicine.

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Speaker 2: I'm an ambassador for Saint Vincent's Hospital. I'm trying to

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Speaker 2: do everything i can and medicine needs help in governance

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Speaker 2: and safety.

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Speaker 1: So can if we go back to three eighty, the

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Speaker 1: A three eighty, which is the Q thirty two flight,

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Speaker 1: and you're taking off and one of the engines blows up.

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Speaker 1: Let's because I think this is a confidence thing for

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Speaker 1: people like me. Can I just want a couple of questions. One,

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Speaker 1: is it less risky if I get on a plane

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Speaker 1: with four engines? One? That seems to me to be

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Speaker 1: the case. I'm asking you the question. Two, what do

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Speaker 1: I need? What happens inside the cockpit there? So how

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Speaker 1: many people are in there? And let's say you know

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Speaker 1: how many people have got to help you in the

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Speaker 1: event that one of the engines doesn't as blown up

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Speaker 1: as corn fire?

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Speaker 2: So safety, Is it more safe with four engines?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Right? Because all all aircraft designed that they lose an engine.

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Speaker 2: Then well that's part of the certification. You just assume

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Speaker 2: that you're losing an engine at some point. If you

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Speaker 2: lose it too early in the takeoff, you have to

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Speaker 2: stop the takeoff, but a certain before we actually get

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Speaker 2: off the ground, halfway down the runway, if you lose

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Speaker 2: an engine, you can stop, and if you have two engines,

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Speaker 2: you keep going once you if you get beyond about

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Speaker 2: halfway down the runway. This is very general. If you

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Speaker 2: lose an engine, you keep going and the performance is

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Speaker 2: designed for you to get safely off the ground and

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Speaker 2: come back and land with one engine gone. So everything,

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Speaker 2: all aviation's predicated on losing one engine. If you're in

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Speaker 2: a two engine aircraft and you lose one, now you're

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Speaker 2: down to one engine. Now, the engines are actually very reliable.

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Speaker 2: They fail about one in every three hundred and fifty

355
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Speaker 2: thousand engine hours, so about one in every eight pilots

356
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Speaker 2: of a twin aircraft. We'll see an.

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Speaker 1: Engine failure in the whole twin engine aircraft twin.

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Speaker 2: One in four pilots of a quad aeroplane, because if

359
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Speaker 2: you have four engines, you've got twice. It's the probability

360
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,160
Speaker 2: of having an engine failure as a twin pilot because

361
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Speaker 2: you've got four engines. The thing is that losing one

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Speaker 2: engine in a quad nothing is nothing you really it's trivial.

363
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,280
Speaker 2: Losing in a twin of a lot more serious. But

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Speaker 2: aviation these days, the problem in aircraft tend to occur

365
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Speaker 2: with passengers. They get sick, they get on with drugs, alcohol, stress,

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Speaker 2: the business class passengers generally cause more commotion and trouble

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Speaker 2: than the economy passengers. They come on more stressed. Maybe

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Speaker 2: there's a problem with wars. Politics have to divert around airspace.

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Speaker 2: Maybe there's a problem with the weather. I'm just saying

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Speaker 2: that engine failures that used to be common on aircraft

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Speaker 2: and not common anymore. And as I said, one in

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Speaker 2: eight twin pilots will ever see an engine failure in

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Speaker 2: the whole career.

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Speaker 1: And your qre thoo two, what was what? You had

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Speaker 1: one engine down out of four engines? Yes, what happened?

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Speaker 1: What did it like?

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Speaker 2: So? A little oil pipe there was to take oil

378
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Speaker 2: to a bearing mount inside the most inner part of

379
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 2: the engine. That pipe had been manufactured incorrectly. It cracked

380
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,879
Speaker 2: because of vibration. Oil went into a part of the

381
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,320
Speaker 2: engine that should not have had any oil into it,

382
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,840
Speaker 2: sitting about eight hundred degrees celsius. That the oil catches fire,

383
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 2: heats the drive shaft, makes it soft, and the turbine

384
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,359
Speaker 2: that has been taking fifty thousand horsepower out of the

385
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 2: air and now rips itself off that shaft because the

386
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Speaker 2: metal's weak. The turbine weighs one hundred and sixty kilograms

387
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:43,120
Speaker 2: high tensile steel. Physics say breaks into three pieces, and

388
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Speaker 2: ours broken too. A few more three pieces hit the aircraft.

389
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Speaker 2: In our case, that created shrapnel. About four hundred impacts

390
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Speaker 2: on the airplane from all the shrapnel, two hundred against

391
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Speaker 2: the fuselage. There were holes in There were holes inside

392
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Speaker 2: the wing, to the wing, on top of the wing,

393
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 2: fuels gushing out. Hydraulics is coming out.

394
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:04,639
Speaker 1: Fewer is coming out.

395
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Speaker 2: Fuels pouring out through the holes inside the wing and

396
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 2: on above and a bottom below the wing, so that

397
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,959
Speaker 2: these pieces were going through aluminium. This thick fifteen mealstick

398
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,439
Speaker 2: through a fuel tank five feet deep and fueled through

399
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 2: another aluminium panel. Fifteen meals thick. When airbusts design the

400
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 2: aircraft to take a rotorburst, which is what we've got,

401
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,719
Speaker 2: they assume that piece of the disc, which you can

402
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 2: never contain, has infinite energy. I'm sorry if this is

403
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 2: scaring you, but now you won't be scared because they say,

404
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 2: that's okay. We just assume we can't stop it. But

405
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 2: we offset the engines so the one exploding engine doesn't

406
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 2: take out the other one. And we designed the air

407
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 2: crafts and no matter what happens with those pieces of shrapnel.

408
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 2: We've got backup systems, right. So in our case, those

409
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 2: three pieces that hit the aircraft took out six hundred

410
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 2: and fifty wires, knocked out half of our networks. Out

411
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 2: of twenty two systems, twenty one were affected. And when

412
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 2: you break down in your car driving home, you'll get

413
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,119
Speaker 2: out and fix it, won't you. You're don electronic car. No,

414
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 2: you can't. You can't. You have to call the anrama

415
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 2: or a friend. We can't do that. But we have

416
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 2: an electronic networked fly by wire aircraft. Half the network's

417
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 2: now broken and we have to now work out what

418
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 2: we're going to get at the end of the flight. Now,

419
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 2: there are five pilots in the cockpits on this flight.

420
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 2: There were two extra captains, three captains. I'm the pilot

421
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Speaker 2: in charge, pilot in command, and we had a first

422
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,679
Speaker 2: officer and a second officer. We pulled our brains. We

423
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 2: work together. This is not like a committee in a

424
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Speaker 2: meeting where you might have three chairs. You know, you'd

425
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 2: have to be afraid if you went to a meeting

426
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 2: with three chairmen, right, Nothing would happen on an aircraft.

427
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,640
Speaker 2: It's different. There's a pilot in command. We had two

428
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 2: other captains. Everyone pulls their resources. We merge our brains

429
00:22:55,200 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 2: into a super brain. We work as a cohesive effective team. Problems.

430
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 2: Everyone knows their responsible to allocate.

431
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: Do you allocate? Does everyone have an.

432
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 2: All allocate it? And before the flight, when I was

433
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 2: telling the other pilot, the first officer and the second

434
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 2: officer before the flight, I said, we have two extra

435
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 2: captains on board. They're actually checking my license. They will

436
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,360
Speaker 2: either renew my license at the end of this flight

437
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: or they will cancel it because I have to go

438
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 2: into training. I said, that's my problem. My license check

439
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 2: is my problem, It's not yours. The important thing is

440
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: the passengers. So you must tell me if I do

441
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 2: something wrong. Don't worry about my check, and don't let

442
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 2: those pilots distract you said, in aviation, we have seven

443
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 2: checks a year, which is like getting a driving license

444
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 2: test with a police commissioner in the back. Seven times

445
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 2: a year, we are checked so thoroughly. You know, you

446
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,640
Speaker 2: worried about an engine failing, But when a pilot lines

447
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 2: up to take off the runway, his heart rate's probably

448
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 2: going up a bit like Neil Armstrong. Neil Armstrong's heart

449
00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 2: rate when he's coming into land on the moon got

450
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 2: to a better hundred and sixty. Not because he was afraid,

451
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 2: but because he was aware of all the things that

452
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 2: could go wrong. And now he's organizing at different times,

453
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 2: different things can go wrong. He's arranging all these possibilities

454
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 2: and then working out, Okay, I'm getting ready, what happens

455
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 2: if this, what happens? If that, what do I do?

456
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,199
Speaker 2: And so he's very mindful, very busy, very alert. The

457
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 2: heartbreak goes up. Same for pilots. Before takeoffs. There are

458
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,640
Speaker 2: seven different areas and during a takeoff, before you leave

459
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 2: the runway, seven different points of which pilots have to

460
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 2: be preconditioned to act almost instantly on any plane, on

461
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 2: all the commercial plane. Commercial very complex and you have

462
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 2: to think. And so during the takeoff you are moving

463
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 2: from phase to phase to phase, and your response is

464
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 2: going to be different. You've got to be sharp. The

465
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 2: heart rates up, but not from fear. They're not anxious.

466
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 2: They have a chronic unease for the status quo. Every takeoff.

467
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 2: They're expecting an engine to fail, right, that's skeptical, that's

468
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 2: but they're ready.

469
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: I'd rather they're ready for the.

470
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 2: Engine fail and if it happens to go bang, you know,

471
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 2: and everyone's ready. Everyone understands, they're they're ready for an

472
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 2: engine failure at any time. If you've ever flown on

473
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 2: a helicopter, look at the pilot. They have windows down

474
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 2: there their feet and they're often looking down through that.

475
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:19,719
Speaker 1: It's scary.

476
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 2: That's where they're going if the engine fails.

477
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: Oh, I've been like it was plenty of times, and

478
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 1: I've decided I'm ever going to oar on helicopter.

479
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 2: But my point is that that we train the things

480
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 2: that might scare us, We train the difficult things. So

481
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 2: number one, it doesn't scare us. Two they become habits,

482
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 2: and three we become resilient when things go wrong. We

483
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 2: don't suffer the fear response, maybe like the passengers.

484
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: So okay, what could that that was important with that

485
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: resilient piece. So so therefore you're making yourself resilient. Maybe

486
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: explain to me, because this could be equally applied to

487
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 1: business all sorts of things. So what is it that

488
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 1: you believe that you do and practice and or pilots

489
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: do and practice every time there's a takeoff there's landing

490
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: that makes them resilient? Take me through that process.

491
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,719
Speaker 2: Okay, first of all, we can have success, right, everyone's success,

492
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 2: And we can have great CEOs that are great because

493
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 2: they've never had a crisis. There are fair weather CEOs

494
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 2: to think, how do they get there? Because it's been good,

495
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 2: they've successful, they've never been charged. Not resilient, right, resilience

496
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 2: assume something goes wrong. So even if you're a successful

497
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 2: CEO that's never done anything wrong, your resilience is only

498
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 2: tested when things go wrong. So we assume something goes wrong,

499
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 2: we have to recover from the problem, come back to

500
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 2: where we were to recover, and then ideally we come

501
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 2: back stronger. Ideally we learn from our failures. You know,

502
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 2: that's what Branson said, if I was successful, it's because

503
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 2: of all the failures along the way. You might think

504
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 2: the same thing. You know, Dick Smith said he's successful

505
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 2: because the first thing to happen to him in business

506
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 2: was he nearly went bankrupt. So if you learn from

507
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 2: the errors, whether they're mental or physical, or in the

508
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 2: business errors or even national errors, you come back, you recover,

509
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 2: but ideally you get stronger. So that's resilience, and we

510
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 2: all want to be resilient and resilience applies to us personally, corporately, nationally,

511
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 2: and existentially. Right, climate change might be an existential risk.

512
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 2: People need to be resilient from the time they're born

513
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 2: until the time they die, and so we need to

514
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 2: bring up kids that are resilient. In other words, we

515
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 2: need to expose them to the threats or the risks

516
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: that we were exposed to when we were young that

517
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 2: made us great. And I can say that, but just

518
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 2: about everyone listening to this podcast probably didn't let the

519
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 2: kids write to school. You know, I have a relative

520
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 2: that won't let their child walk up some stairs, right,

521
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 2: they have to go take the lift because they can't

522
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 2: risk walking up the stairs. So if we overprotect our children,

523
00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 2: if we stop them discovering threats and handle them, if

524
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 2: we stopped them failing learning and adjusting, then they will

525
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 2: not be resilient. And then in fact, they become then

526
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 2: scared of life. They become anxious, unsure. So the fear

527
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 2: that you talk about maybe people having a fear of flying,

528
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 2: some people who were not resilient have a fear of life,

529
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 2: and that's anxiousness. It's a lack of confidence. It's a

530
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 2: lack of confidence gives courage to be intrepid and fearless.

531
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,959
Speaker 2: You know, this world's full of disruptions and change, so

532
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 2: many disruptions, AI, energy, transport elements, whether everything, politics, How

533
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 2: disruptive is politics at the moment. So our world is

534
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 2: changed and we must adapt or will perish, because equally

535
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 2: bring is a precursor to death. Now if we have

536
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 2: to change in addust, we have to make decisions in

537
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 2: areas where we don't have a whole lot of information,

538
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 2: So we're going to make wrong decisions. The problem is

539
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 2: not making wrong decisions, the problem is recognizing it and

540
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 2: changing it quickly, adaptations, adapting right people. People are not

541
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: measured by failure these days, are measured by how they

542
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 2: respond to failure, which is really sort of resilience. So

543
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 2: we need to train our kids to identify, manage rate,

544
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 2: live with risk, and to be fearless to take risks,

545
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: just as you did. And I think that's where we've

546
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 2: let our younger generations down.

547
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 3: And so can I ask another question just about just

548
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 3: I'm sorry to keep going back to what's going on

549
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 3: in the cockpit, but the so just on that example,

550
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 3: you had two other captains there who were assessing you

551
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 3: at this stage, but you mentioned you had the the

552
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 3: other two people, what do you call those.

553
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 2: Check They were actually check captains. They were they were training.

554
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 2: They were captains who were there.

555
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: To check what you do. But what were the other

556
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: two guys were?

557
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 2: The first officer?

558
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do they do?

559
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 2: Matt Matt Hicks was in the right hand seat. He's

560
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 2: a first officer. He is a pilot, he's a There

561
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 2: were five pilots in the cockpit. Myself, I'm the pilot

562
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 2: in command. Captain Matt is in my right hand seat.

563
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 2: He does things that I asked him to do. But

564
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: we have for sandord operator.

565
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: He is a pilot nonetheless.

566
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, fully, he had ten thousand hours, he was experienced.

567
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 2: Mark Johnson, the second officer who's also in my crew,

568
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 2: he had about six thousand hours. He had been flying.

569
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: Also also pilot.

570
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's the most junior rank, right, the second officer,

571
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 2: the most junior pilot in the cockpit. Hit me flying

572
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 2: F one eleven's and hercules in the Air Force. Right now,

573
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 2: This is the thing. Not all companies are the same,

574
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 2: are they right? Right? Some companies fail. Not all airlines

575
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 2: are the same. And in quantas they employed pilots with experience,

576
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: proven history, and they're exceptional, right, So even my second officer,

577
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 2: Mark Johnson, extraordinary experience and we now work together as

578
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: a team of three. Now we're being checked by the

579
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 2: other two pilots, so.

580
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,719
Speaker 1: They're still checking him that the engine blew up or

581
00:30:58,760 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: do they get involved.

582
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 2: They they once the engine fails, they canceled the check

583
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 2: and they said, now we're coming in to help you.

584
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: They're supernumery pilots, so don't have a role as such.

585
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 2: There's no there's no procedures for five pilots and a cockpit,

586
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 2: so they just came in to assist, right, And I

587
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 2: told Harry, one of those captains, if all the pilots

588
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 2: are looking up, you look down. If we're all looking down,

589
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: you look up, right, because sometimes people.

590
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: So you had to take control. Let's call it control.

591
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know.

592
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: I'm the PA. I'm responsible for the safety of the passengers,

593
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 2: the aircraft, the cargo, the crew, a whole lot. If

594
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 2: someone dies, those pilots aren't pulled up into the court

595
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 2: to explain why I.

596
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: Am yep, yep. So you're so, you're so, how does

597
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: someone how do you feel as though you were able

598
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: to do that? What was it you've done in your past.

599
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: Let's let's park or extract from you what is a

600
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: natural instinct and or a natural skill or a natural talent.

601
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: Was there anything that you've done in your past in

602
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: terms of day to day practice or awareness or whatever

603
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: allowed you to be the person in charge as opposed

604
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: to just because it.

605
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 2: Is a really good question, and because if you understand

606
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: that background, then you can explain why things happened. On

607
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 2: q F thirty two people asked the same question. So

608
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 2: I had to write the second book, which I call

609
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,719
Speaker 2: The Elements of Resilience. I had to work out because

610
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 2: a lot of the answers to these questions go back

611
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: to how you read as a child. I rode motorbikes

612
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 2: through the bush. I tell we're about ten years of age,

613
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: and I tell my dad we're going off of the

614
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 2: day into a state forest of three hundred square miles,

615
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: And I said, you see your dinner.

616
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: That's only you.

617
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 2: We're off with riding motorbikes. Didn't know where we were going,

618
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 2: didn't other than them to the three hundred.

619
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: Scare mean like you. Let Dad allowed you to do

620
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: that too, right.

621
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 2: But the bikes broke down. We ended up in hospital

622
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 2: a few times, and we had to repair the bikes,

623
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 2: had to maintain them. It gave us all these skills

624
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 2: of knowledge, and it gave us a whole lot of experience,

625
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 2: both mental and physical physical skills to really manue the

626
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 2: motorbike hard and to push your body. You're getting out

627
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 2: of control, out of your comfort zone. You have to recover.

628
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 2: Riding motorbikes when I was young and getting filthy, dirty

629
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 2: and cold and wet was a great, a really a

630
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 2: critical part of my early past. So to answer some

631
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 2: of the questions, I have to go back that far

632
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 2: to the motorbikes. So the second book about resilience, I

633
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 2: identify eight elements. Now just bear with me because this

634
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 2: applies to you personally, corporately, nationally. Right knowledge, you've got

635
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 2: to know something. You've got to learn and you train,

636
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 2: you got to you got to commit to a lifetime

637
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 2: of learning and change.

638
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: To just go back knowledge. So your knowledge about your

639
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: subject matter a broad knowledge. Then you've got to continue

640
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: updating about the subject matter.

641
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 2: You've got to know information down to its core. It's

642
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 2: getting hard today because we've got black boxes. We don't understand.

643
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 2: But if you don't understand the black box. Don't be

644
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 2: afraid of it. You must know how to turn it off,

645
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 2: which blacks box to turn off, and how to turn

646
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 2: it off. That applies in aircraft with that many problems

647
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 2: in aircraft because people don't know which computers to turn

648
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 2: off when they break. If you have a car with

649
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 2: a start button, almost know people know how to turn

650
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 2: that off. If that car misbehaves when it's moving. Now,

651
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 2: when it's stopped, you just press the start stop and

652
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 2: the car engine stops. It won't do that when you're moving.

653
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 2: My point is everyone in the car should know if

654
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 2: their car misbehaves to how do you turn off that engine?

655
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: I don't know you how do you do it?

656
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 2: Do you want me to? You can google it, but

657
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 2: no one knows. That a good point and no one knows. Okay,

658
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 2: what do you do? It varies with the car company.

659
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 2: But you either have to hold a button in and

660
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 2: hold it for five seconds or you hit it five

661
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 2: times quickly because you don't want to put your knee

662
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 2: up against the button in the cruise and suddenly turn

663
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 2: your car off, so they try and avoid your engine

664
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 2: shutting down. My point is knowledge is knowing your systems,

665
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 2: and even if you don't understand the black boxes, know

666
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 2: how to turn them off, and that will save you

667
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 2: many times. You know, Knowledge is knowing because spread most

668
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 2: spreadsheets are probably wrong with the calculation. Knowledge is having

669
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 2: a sense of reasonableness to know when your spreadsheets wrong,

670
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 2: when something's wrong. Knowledge is hard eth work. It will

671
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 2: never stop. And even when you graduate from university as

672
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 2: a surgeon, if you don't keep up your skills, you'll

673
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 2: drift slowly, drift to failure. You have to change, adapt,

674
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 2: learn new systems.

675
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:29,879
Speaker 1: Right, that's two.

676
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 2: That's knowledge and training. How to learn? How's the best

677
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 2: way to train? In the Air Force? We this is

678
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 2: we're up to two now training. What's the best way

679
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 2: to teach someone? You think, well, you think, well, I've

680
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 2: taught my kids. I know how to change. Well, maybe

681
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 2: some kids were taught how to swim by being thrown

682
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 2: into the water. Is that a good way to swim?

683
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 2: Or should you say watch me swim that. I'm going

684
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 2: to direct you through the maneuvers and then when you're

685
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 2: finally confident you can do it yourself. That's the way

686
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 2: the Air Force trains people demonstrate direct monitor works really well?

687
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: Or do you you know there are a thousand ways,

688
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 2: but what way works best. I'm friends with a wonderful

689
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:16,240
Speaker 2: pianist called Constantine Shamray, and he plays all around the world.

690
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 2: He puts in two hours of practice every day. It's

691
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 2: called deliberate deliberate practice.

692
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: It's the stuff purposeful hard.

693
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 2: You're getting feedback so that you aresting you have to

694
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 2: do things outside your comfort zone. It won't be easy,

695
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 2: it won't be pleasant, but you've got to do it.

696
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: He's not playing America Room, is he? He's playing like

697
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 1: he's actually doing with a purpose and attention, but actually

698
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: copping feedback from people listening to him.

699
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,919
Speaker 2: Correct. And he does that every day and he's now

700
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 2: coming up to fifties.

701
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: That's Malcolm Gladwell's ten thousand hours of purpose.

702
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 2: He's simplified it to ten per.

703
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it is about purposeful practice as practice.

704
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 2: Correct. Now. Now, you could have a pilot that does

705
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 2: deliberate practice. This is a simulator check where they fail

706
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 2: the engine and they say yes, you pass, and he

707
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 2: goes oooh, that's scared the hell out of me. I

708
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 2: don't I never want to see that again. Now that

709
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 2: is insufficient. If you're learning, you want to practice something

710
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 2: until you can repeat it. In the military, they have

711
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 2: to practice the things that are really scary so that

712
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 2: the soldiers are not scared when they see it. Right. Look,

713
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 2: if you have an interview an sas soldier I did

714
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 2: last week, you'll notice how calm they are. They're not

715
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 2: excitable because nothing can excite them. They're a migdaler in

716
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:35,720
Speaker 2: their fear circuits, being almost shut down because they're confident

717
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 2: they can handle anything. Right, So you ideally want to

718
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 2: practice these things until they don't stress you. So I

719
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 2: call that stress proof deliberate practice. If we train those

720
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 2: hard engine failse or the things that if we get

721
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 2: you up into an aeroplane until we not just conquer

722
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 2: your fear, but you actually love being flying, love flying again,

723
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 2: then that you now have stress proof deliberate practice to

724
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 2: achieve that. So how with no knowledge, training experience experience

725
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 2: is critical when you graduate as a part as a driver,

726
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 2: you're driving test, you've passed, but you're not a racing

727
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 2: car driver. You are you are proficient, but you're not competent.

728
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 2: When you want to have an eye operation, do you

729
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 2: go to the doctor that's just come out of the university,

730
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 2: or do you go to the eye doctor that's done

731
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 2: ten thousand operations right. Experience is important. You can't be

732
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 2: competent unless you are have experience. And this I get

733
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 2: major arguments with people over this. They think anyone who's

734
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 2: passed a test is perfect. No experience count.

735
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: That's theory, as the practicality is the experience counts next step.

736
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,439
Speaker 2: Experience can be a curse. I'm sure you know many

737
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 2: people who've got so much experience now they get confident,

738
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: conceded over confident hubris. When you ever mentioned the word

739
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 2: hubris with someone, that's before they're going to fail, and

740
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 2: you see it in the media, Hubris is the indicator

741
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: of emminent failure. So experience can be a curse. Knowledge, training, experience, teamwork.

742
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 2: Individuals will always fail. An individual will never be resilient

743
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 2: because failure is part of the human condition. Teams can together,

744
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,280
Speaker 2: Teams can be resilient together. Teams can do remarkable things.

745
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: Q F thirty two was a team effort. It was

746
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 2: only successful because of the team. If you're not a

747
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 2: team player, you are not resilient. So knowledge, train, experience, teamwork,

748
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 2: leadership many types of leaders. The leaders to change leaders

749
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 2: for things that don't change so much. You know, production lines.

750
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 2: I think the main thing is each person has to

751
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 2: find the leader they want to mimic that the leader

752
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 2: they respect. Look for the traits in them. See if

753
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 2: they can you can repeat them. Did you have a

754
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 2: mentor a couple? Did you have someone you looked up?

755
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 2: Who who's the leader that you expired.

756
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: To the most or Kerry Packerho was my partner. So

757
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: he did for the four years four and a half

758
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: years I was involved in. I was in partnership with him. Yeah,

759
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 1: and I aspired to be him in.

760
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 2: Did he mentor you?

761
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: He wouldn't. He didn't offer to mentor me, but I

762
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: used him as a mentor. Okay, it's probably been a

763
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: way pretty on.

764
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 2: You tell me if I'm wrong. Particularly, he didn't tell

765
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,760
Speaker 2: me what to do, particularly CEOs chairs. It's a lonely

766
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 2: life totally.

767
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 1: He didn't tell what to do. He just asked me questions.

768
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 2: But it's alone the life. You don't want to admit

769
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 2: you don't know someone, You don't ask anyone. You're alone. Yeah,

770
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,919
Speaker 2: and so even the chairs and the CEOs needed mental

771
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 2: I think everyone needs a mentor in their life at

772
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 2: every stage.

773
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: I did it buy observation, though I more watched what

774
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: he did, and he was pretty brutal questioner. So he

775
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: never believed anything you said, and he would question you

776
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: for hours.

777
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 2: He wanted the facts, did he want the reference?

778
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: He would just he just wanted to check that you

779
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: knew the facts. And he would actually the same thing

780
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: fifty different ways over hours.

781
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:02,720
Speaker 2: He sounds like an Elon Musk.

782
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: He was very good.

783
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 2: Elon must assumes nothing. You have to give facts through that.

784
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, he carried, didn't believe anything, You just onto, onto, onto,

785
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: you know. For me, that's what I believe is the

786
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: best way of being a mentor is that you ask questions,

787
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: don't give answers.

788
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 2: All Right. The thing that I find simplest about leadership

789
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 2: is the most important two important things. And I'm repeating

790
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 2: John Howard here. He said the most important thing in

791
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 2: leadership is your values. That will determine how you think,

792
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 2: act and communicate. If you have the wrong values, or

793
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 2: if you don't have any value, if you don't have.

794
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 1: Any values, or if you don't know what they are,

795
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: if you have an articulate.

796
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 2: You know, we've had many prime ministers that haven't lasted

797
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 2: long in the last fifteen years because you don't know

798
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 2: what their values are, and they change that unpredictable. You

799
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 2: can't trust them, right, And because of that, and their

800
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 2: second rule for a leader was to keep those you

801
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 2: lead really tight. Keep those ones you you immediately manage

802
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,399
Speaker 2: like as though they're Dyna ditch for you, right, And

803
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 2: particularly saying the Hawk Keating Howard years, they had the

804
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 2: most wonderful teams. I think they're some of the.

805
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: Howard Alli's and a Downer and Peter Costello who were

806
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: like just so and Ja Hockey like they never left

807
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: your side, yeah, unbelieved.

808
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,760
Speaker 2: They dine and ditched for it and they were great teams.

809
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 2: And the Hawk Howard were amazing managing directors of the

810
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 2: country right, with the most extraordinary team. And that's what

811
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 2: we lost in the latest prime ministers. They get stabbed

812
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 2: by their immediate juniors. It's terrible. I mean, this is

813
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 2: what I'm saying. These things about resilience just don't apply personally.

814
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 2: It applies right up nationally. And it's the same elements

815
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 2: of resilience, So knowledge, train, experienced, teamwork, leadership, decision making.

816
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 2: A lot of resilience comes from being prepared. You look

817
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 2: at all your threats to the risk, you build up

818
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 2: your standard procedures, you build up your risk management profiles,

819
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 2: you come up with policy in your plans, and so

820
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,320
Speaker 2: when something goes wrong like a pandemic, hopefully you're prepared

821
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 2: for it. Right. You just bring the team together and

822
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 2: your action when you're actioning, actioning coming together. If you

823
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 2: have set up properly from a crisis, the only thing

824
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 2: that happens after that crisis starts is you make the

825
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 2: decisions that are dynamic. And there are eight ways to

826
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 2: make decisions, coming from your instincts and habits to intuition.

827
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 2: There's a thing called urduloup. There's very complex decision making processes.

828
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 2: So decision making, and particularly in a crisis, where a

829
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 2: decision now that's eighty percent correct is much better than

830
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 2: a perfect decision tomorrow. Right, So decision making is a

831
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 2: critical element resilient some people. I mean, the most frustrating

832
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 2: pilot is one that can't make a decision. Have you

833
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 2: seen people of business a company decisions? Are they frustrating?

834
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: They don't last long with me?

835
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 2: So well, they last long in many big companies. It's

836
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 2: amazing their last long. But they're afraid of making decisions.

837
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 2: So that's element crisis management because life is We're going

838
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 2: to be perseptariate crisis faster and deeper than ever before.

839
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 2: Many people thought, well, we've had about fifteen crises in

840
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 2: the last twenty five years, surely that's the end of it. No,

841
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 2: the world's so disruptive that are going to come harder

842
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 2: and faster at a great rate one hundred. So we

843
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 2: have to be absolutely understand the crisis management of how

844
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,760
Speaker 2: to run that, and then risk. Risk is the last

845
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:33,800
Speaker 2: element of resilience.

846
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: You've got to This is your eighth element. This is

847
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: your eighth element.

848
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 2: Eight identify rate and live with it. You have to

849
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 2: take risk, you have to, but you take intelligent risks.

850
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 2: All risks have a mitigation in case that don't work,

851
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 2: you've got to back up. If you take a risk

852
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 2: without a mitigation, without any backup, that's called a gamble.

853
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 2: And if you take a gamble that might kill you,

854
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 2: then you're probably going to die. Right the gamble is

855
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 2: put on all of your life savings on red at

856
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 2: a casino where you might lose it all. So, and

857
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,280
Speaker 2: it's surprising how many people don't understand risk and gambling

858
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 2: and things like that. We must take risks, but do

859
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:16,959
Speaker 2: intelligent risks, and.

860
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,879
Speaker 1: You inform risks is what I call. Yeah, but yeah,

861
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: I get.

862
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,919
Speaker 2: It, knowledgeable risks. Yeah, you make decisions. And I'm sure

863
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 2: you look at the tennis players. The difference between Roger

864
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 2: Federer and Nadal in a game is almost negligible. It

865
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,839
Speaker 2: might be forty you know, it might be forty nine

866
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 2: percent great shots to fifty one, and they're managing the risk.

867
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 2: Even if they're going down. They say, all right, yes,

868
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 2: I'm losing the game, but I've got to got to

869
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 2: keep playing the way I can. I just there's nothing

870
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 2: wrong with it. I just have to persist. I have

871
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 2: to understand the risks and keep the game plan. So, yes,

872
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 2: you have to understand the threats and measure the risk

873
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 2: and then work with the risk. If you don't, if

874
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:08,359
Speaker 2: you just work with threats, then you are fearful, right

875
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 2: because a mouse might scare you because that scares women.

876
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 2: Going flying might scare you because some people die. But

877
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 2: if you can take that threat and they'w move it

878
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 2: into probability and consequence, you measure the risk, you'd realize, well,

879
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 2: the mice don't kill any people, so ignore that. And

880
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 2: even flying an aeroplane is safer than going into a hospital.

881
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 2: So measurement of risk will give you guidance as to

882
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 2: well confidence. You see, when a pilot moves a thrust

883
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 2: leavers up to take off an aeroplane, they're taking off

884
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 2: into the unknown. They've got an eight three eighty has

885
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 2: four million parts, four hundred million dollars, a thousand computers,

886
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 2: and I didn't make them. I don't know how they

887
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,720
Speaker 2: all work. You trust the people, the engineers, and everyone

888
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,280
Speaker 2: did a good job. But things happen. Life is unfair,

889
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 2: Terrible things happen, and so the pilot as he takes

890
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:05,320
Speaker 2: off has this chronic unease. It's not anxiety, it's not fear.

891
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 2: He's got this chronic uncertainty. But he's prepared for things

892
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 2: going wrong. So we do go. Now, this is the

893
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,839
Speaker 2: critical thing it was. Alan Joyce told the conference many

894
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 2: years ago he said pilots were procedural leaders. They followed checklists.

895
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 2: Now that's true for about ninety percent of the occasions.

896
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 2: What he missed was that for that last ten percent,

897
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 2: which involves passengers, politics, wars, the pilot's doing the last

898
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:44,720
Speaker 2: ten percent is solving problems, and the problem doesn't exist

899
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 2: in a standard operating procedure the pilot has to create

900
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,799
Speaker 2: a novel solution to something they've never seen before. So

901
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 2: they have to use all these eight elements of resilience

902
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 2: to think up a novel solution that no one's thought

903
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 2: of to solve the problem because they can't call for help.

904
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 2: They can't. And so it's this combination of knowing the

905
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 2: standard operating procedures when things are good and having the

906
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 2: skill to create a novel solution when things go crazy

907
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 2: or black Swan events nine to eleven. This is what

908
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 2: pilots are taught. This is what resilience is. And when

909
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 2: you have that feeling, then you can take on anything

910
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 2: that life throws at you. You have the confidence and

911
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 2: the courage. You might fail a little bit, but then

912
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 2: you can adjust and retry. Right. So, and that's a

913
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 2: feeling that I called in my second book a feeling

914
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 2: of being bulletproof not gun shy, right, bulletproof not gun shy.

915
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 2: It's the sheriff that walks out in front of the gunslinger,

916
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 2: and the sheriff says, I've done all the training. I'm

917
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 2: looking for his body movement. I've got professional training. I

918
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 2: can beat this amateur gunslinger. And he does. So the

919
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 2: feeling that when you've got these elements of resilience, you

920
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 2: can take on these threats knowing that you'll succeed. This

921
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 2: is what fither pilots have when they can launch in

922
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 2: a single seaty craft across enemy territory at night. You know,

923
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 2: how could you ever build up a confidence to do

924
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 2: that if it wasn't you know, a decade of training

925
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 2: and building up all those skills in resilience. So the

926
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 2: aim is that all these people, from children to businesses,

927
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 2: they all build up these elements of resilience and then

928
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 2: you're confident that you can face whatever life gives it.

929
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: You tell me about your podcast fly.

930
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 2: Well, the book The Elements of Resilience has been a success.

931
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 2: I now toll the world talking about resilience. I talk

932
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 2: to medical groups.

933
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 1: I talk to have guests as a guest base.

934
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 2: Well, sorry, I haven't got to that yet. I talk

935
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 2: to people who clear runways of snow. I talked to banks,

936
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 2: and those talks are and I talk about resilience. They've

937
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 2: been received very well. So now I've got a podcast

938
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 2: and I bring in different leads of different parts of

939
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 2: different industries and I talk about first question, what's your

940
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 2: definition resilience, and then the second question, how do we

941
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 2: achieve it or what's the problem. So I'm talking to

942
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 2: psychiatrists about children and why they're anxious and how we

943
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 2: can solve that. I'm talking to educators on the best

944
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 2: way for schools to educate children because I don't think

945
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 2: we've been achieving the maximum benefit for each individual. We

946
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 2: talk about military resilience and national resilience. You know, at

947
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 2: the moment, we have about twenty one to thirty days

948
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:33,320
Speaker 2: of gasoline and diesel in the country. Now, how many

949
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 2: Jerry cans of petrol and diesel do you have at home?

950
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 2: You don't have to answer that question. A lot of

951
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 2: people will think, well, I've never thought of that, But

952
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 2: in the seventies when we couldn't get oil, we did. No.

953
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:48,359
Speaker 2: I think you still should because we just need. You see,

954
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 2: the ninety five percent of our oil comes to Australia

955
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 2: from foreign owned ships. If those foreign companies decide they

956
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 2: don't want to bring it to Australia, are twenty one

957
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 2: days is they're going to be declining. It's not just

958
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 2: twenty one day for you to drive the kids to school,

959
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 2: it's twenty one days for the farmer to have a

960
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 2: tractor making you food, and if he makes it, it's

961
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 2: twenty one days for the freight company to get it

962
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 2: to the market, and so the whole resilience of the

963
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 2: country might come down to twenty one days of diesel. Remember,

964
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:20,919
Speaker 2: we nearly ran out of the ad Blue last year,

965
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 2: which means the truck's virtually shut down. You have to

966
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 2: look at all the critical assets in a country, which

967
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 2: is military, fuel, energy.

968
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: And just general transport systems.

969
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 2: Well, critical things that if you don't have it, it stops.

970
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 2: You know, we're the biggest maker of opium, are thirty

971
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 2: We produced thirty percent of the world's opium and yet

972
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 2: and we could turn that into morphine, but we have

973
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 2: to bring it from China, and we nearly ran out

974
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 2: of morphine two years ago, so we couldn't give operations

975
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 2: and hospitals. These are critical things that the country must protect,

976
00:51:56,120 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 2: regardless of the cost. We were about fifteen refinery is

977
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 2: the turn of the century making hydrocarbon fuels. Now we're

978
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 2: down to two and they'll shut down in twenty twenty seven.

979
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:09,839
Speaker 2: How resilient are we going to be then? I mean

980
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 2: these are national resilience is critical. How long would we

981
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:21,439
Speaker 2: last in a war against our key adversary. Well why why, Well,

982
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 2: it's down to the ours, really don't it's less than

983
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 2: twenty four hours. But then if that's what we're worried about,

984
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 2: why have we got increasing dependence on that country ninety

985
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 2: five sorry, thirty five percent, and it's increasing of our

986
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 2: jet fuel for our aircraft come from China, and it's

987
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 2: increasing where the piecing increasing are dependency on China at

988
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 2: a time when we're also thinking that they're a higher risk.

989
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 2: And you might say, well, that's not a problem because

990
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 2: the military get all their oil and fuel reserves from

991
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:56,319
Speaker 2: their own supplies. No military gets all their fuel from

992
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 2: the civil supplies. They have no stock taking. So that's

993
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 2: why this topic of resilience is so important, and.

994
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 1: At a national level, at a personal level, at a

995
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: business level, at a hospital level.

996
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:11,240
Speaker 2: I'm interviewing John Howard's coming on. I'd love to interview

997
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 2: you about it.

998
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: John, I here last week, Actually did you yeah, sit

999
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: in the broad there?

1000
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 2: He wrote a page in my second book. I have

1001
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 2: the highest respect for John Howard. He was a wonderful

1002
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,800
Speaker 2: managing director of the country. He took great risks, didn't

1003
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 2: he to get in He brought in the GST and

1004
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 2: then he brought in a gun restrictions gun restriction. You see,

1005
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 2: he was driven by values. He he thought he'll explain

1006
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 2: them and give them reasons. And so even if people

1007
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 2: didn't like John Howard, they respected him and they thought

1008
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 2: he was predictable. So John Howard is really a great.

1009
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 1: He's a mentor for me, the grast for me, the

1010
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,840
Speaker 1: greatest prime minister in the in the modern era. So

1011
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,359
Speaker 1: that's what I believe. But that's you know, people can say, well,

1012
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 1: that's because you're a liberal voter now, because John Howard is.

1013
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I also like Bob Hawk for his you know,

1014
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 1: his person et cetera. It was a great. He was

1015
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: a great. He owned the room, Bob Hook, he could

1016
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 1: own the room. In other words, people loved him and

1017
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:09,879
Speaker 1: he had a great team. Yeah, and the unbelievable team.

1018
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 1: But I think that John' right is a great managing direction.

1019
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,279
Speaker 1: And I think that you're right. He actually you knew

1020
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 1: what his values were. He didn't go and say these

1021
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 1: are my values, but you knew what his values were

1022
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 1: by the way he executed which I could talk to

1023
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: you for hours, but I got I want to ask you.

1024
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:25,879
Speaker 2: Let me say one thing. But I can't get John,

1025
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 2: how you got everything right except for one. And this

1026
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 2: is what so many people suffer when we're talking resilience.

1027
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:34,879
Speaker 2: He stayed too long. Yeah, he didn't know when it

1028
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 2: was time to go. One must face and have worked

1029
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 2: that in their mind when it's time to go.

1030
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. So in terms of when it's time to go,

1031
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 1: you and I got to go. But I wonder if

1032
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 1: you indulge you just a little, just for a second.

1033
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 1: I only thought about I don't I've never done this

1034
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 1: before with a guest, But I wonder whether or not

1035
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 1: if I could say to you, could I ask you

1036
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 1: five or six really rapid fire questions about about the

1037
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 1: aviation in I thought you're going to say, what, desser,

1038
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: I like commercial stuff, commercial avian industry, so and maybe

1039
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 1: just give me quick answers. But like, for example, is

1040
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:16,800
Speaker 1: whether it has the weather changed relative to the safety

1041
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 1: of airlines?

1042
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 2: No?

1043
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: No, okay, So we're not getting more. Okay, well I

1044
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 1: won't no more.

1045
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 2: No. The weather that affects aeroplanes, that where people being

1046
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:29,359
Speaker 2: hurt is at high level, and global warming hasn't reached

1047
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 2: the high levels.

1048
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: Right, is weather an issue generally at all.

1049
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 2: Oh, it's whether the pilots are experienced. Pilots can navigate weather. No,

1050
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 2: when either not to fly, or to avoid the weather,

1051
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 2: or to turn back. It comes down to experience and personality.

1052
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 2: And I think it's very sad to say. I think

1053
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 2: a lot of injuries occur when people fly into thunderstorms

1054
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:56,600
Speaker 2: for many reasons. Maybe they're not looking at the radar,

1055
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 2: maybe they haven't interpreted properly, maybe the radar has failed.

1056
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 2: It doesn't happen often, it's very rare. But you know,

1057
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:08,919
Speaker 2: with forty million flights a year, some some have been

1058
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 2: flown into thunderstorms and people have been hurt.

1059
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:15,919
Speaker 1: So and you just prompted me on another question forty flights. Yeah,

1060
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 1: I mean, are you serious? Are we talking globally that

1061
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 1: there are forty million flights? In other words, and therefore,

1062
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 1: are the sky's becoming more crowded?

1063
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:27,319
Speaker 2: In America, they're overcrowded. Washington, there was a crash between

1064
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 2: a Delta aircraft and helicopter. I think it was Delta.

1065
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 2: I'd say it doesn't manage an aircraft. Again, in America,

1066
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:38,760
Speaker 2: aviation is overcrowded. In Washington, there was a collision between

1067
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 2: a commercial aircraft and helicopter. People are blaming the helicopter

1068
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 2: pilot for that era. He was one hundred feet too high. No,

1069
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,360
Speaker 2: you should never ever have a single point of failure.

1070
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 2: Those the two aircraft should not have been in the

1071
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 2: same airspace. The problem was that politicians and the airlines

1072
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:01,320
Speaker 2: wanted more flights, and the airs and air traffic controls

1073
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:06,319
Speaker 2: set repeatedly no, no, no, we're oversaturated. The politics the

1074
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 2: politicians won, there were more flight scheduled, the airspace overcrowded,

1075
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:14,839
Speaker 2: and air traffic control that's using radio communications straight out

1076
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 2: of the Second World War is trying to manage all

1077
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 2: these aircraft in chiny airspace. The problem was not the

1078
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:24,439
Speaker 2: helicopter pilot. The problem was that those aircraft that hadn't

1079
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 2: taken off, and that the systems that we use both

1080
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 2: in communications and air traffic control are totally inadequate in

1081
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 2: that environment.

1082
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 1: Do you think that given the appetite because for new

1083
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: aeroplanes and or anywhere, or just aeroplanes generally, particularly with

1084
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 1: the rise of place like India, et cetera, where there's

1085
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 1: you know, once more a time people never flew anywhere,

1086
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 1: but now everybody's flying, do you think that there is

1087
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 1: a that we are being stretched for aircraft, and as

1088
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 1: a result of that, aircraft therefore being kept longer, and therefore,

1089
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 1: as a result of that, more aircraft reor require greater maintenance.

1090
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 2: Aircraft are being held longer because their manufacturers are not

1091
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 2: able to build new aircraft.

1092
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: To keep up with the demand.

1093
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 2: Yes, but the fact that it's an old airplane shouldn't

1094
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:16,600
Speaker 2: scare you, because aircraft are maintained by mechanics, they have

1095
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 2: to meet certain standards. You can keep a car going forever,

1096
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 2: and people do. They have cars that in museums that

1097
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 2: will drive. You can keep aeroplanes flying in perfect order

1098
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 2: indefinitely if you just keep the spare parts up. That's

1099
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 2: what airlines do. Now. There are some good airlines and

1100
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 2: there are some airlines are not as good. So I

1101
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 2: think if anyone has a fear of flying, just keep

1102
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 2: to the airline that they're comfortable with and that has

1103
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 2: a good safety record, and they should have no fears

1104
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 2: at all.

1105
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 1: Do you think Australian pilots, because I'm an often get

1106
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 1: on planes and other places and other countries, and I

1107
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 1: hear Australian Australian pilots speaking of the address system Australian

1108
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 1: pilots up there into their training and their ability and

1109
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 1: their experience relative.

1110
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 2: I think American, Australian, New Zealand Western European pilots are

1111
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 2: the best in the world, okay, and I rate them

1112
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 2: all evenly, right and sorry, I think Emirates pilots are

1113
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 2: also extremely good, so I rate them all evenly. They're

1114
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 2: all exceptional. And I have no fear whatever putting my family.

1115
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 2: That's a test for a pilot. Would you put your

1116
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 2: family on that airline? I have no problems putting my

1117
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 2: family on any of those countries aircraft.

1118
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 1: And then finally, my final question is this, and I've

1119
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: always been interested in this. Given exposure to what's the

1120
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 1: word exposure to not radioactive radiation, radiation. Given exposure to radiation,

1121
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 1: is it true to say what is true to say

1122
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 1: that every time we go up an aer aplane we

1123
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 1: get exposed to a certain amount of radiation, and that

1124
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: in a lifetime we only should be able we should

1125
00:59:57,360 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 1: only have a certain amount of radiation exposed to us

1126
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 1: in a lifetime, otherwise we run a risk of personal illness.

1127
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:05,919
Speaker 1: Is it true, therefore, that pilots have to retire early

1128
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 1: because they're probably near more than anybody else and therefore

1129
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:12,800
Speaker 1: being exposed to radiation at a greater rate than everybody else.

1130
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 2: No, they're not. You're exposed to radiation when you walk outside.

1131
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 2: Aircraft have gold on the inside the windscreen to cut

1132
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 2: down the actuation. There's no increased rate of cancer in

1133
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 2: pilots compared to the rest of the community. There is

1134
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 2: a fear that if you go down there the poles

1135
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 2: where near the magnetic the north and South magnetic poles,

1136
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 2: you get less protection from the magnetic sphere of the Earth,

1137
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 2: but most flights don't do that. Look, I'm not aware

1138
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 2: of anyone having problems. Radiation is all degrees of shitouse.

1139
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 2: There is no radiation that's really good for you, and

1140
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 2: the limits that are there are sort of notional limits.

1141
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 2: But I'm not aware of anyone with the current regime

1142
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 2: of rules and limitations, having any effects from radiation.

1143
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 1: It was as interesting as I did. I did read

1144
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 1: somewhere or hurt someone not in relationships podcast, but that

1145
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 1: I think in a lifetime, and that's obviously fungible, but

1146
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 1: in a lifetime we shouldn't. We're trying to be exposed

1147
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 1: to more than fifty I think it's sea bits of

1148
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 1: radiation per person at an individual, but that's over a lifetime,

1149
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: and then they can measure how much you get exposed

1150
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 1: to just walking outside of the street at sea level.

1151
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 1: Then there's another you know, if you're at Mount Everyan's

1152
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 1: there's another level, greater, if you're flying aeroplanes, even greater again,

1153
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 1: et cetera. And then of course we were things like

1154
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 1: X ray machines, you know, not MRI machines, but CT

1155
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 1: CT scans, walking through the security at the airports. Blah

1156
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. Are these real issues that pilots think about.

1157
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 2: And I don't know all the numbers. My gut feeling

1158
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 2: is if you were happy to have a CT scan,

1159
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,920
Speaker 2: which is hundreds or thousands of X rays, then you

1160
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 2: shouldn't fear any radiation in an aeroplane or walking outside.

1161
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 2: I mean, you can still get sunburnt walking outside, and

1162
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 2: we're aware of that, but we shouldn't be worried about

1163
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 2: ionizing radiation, which is the problem here from either being outside.

1164
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 2: And I think maybe we should not have too many

1165
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 2: CT scans or the whole body. But generally speaking, I

1166
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 2: don't know a single person who has suffered from radiation damage.

1167
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 1: That's interesting. Well, I really so glad to have you

1168
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 1: back in here again. I think it's probably no. Sixth

1169
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 1: some years since our last meeting, and the old days

1170
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 1: when I didn't even have this podcast had a podcasts

1171
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:34,439
Speaker 1: are different.

1172
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 2: Name.

1173
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:38,720
Speaker 1: I can tell anybody that you should read his books,

1174
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 1: two books, but most importantly now you should be listening

1175
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 1: to Rich's new podcast with the podcast available on Spotify.

1176
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 2: The podcast is called Fly the Elements of Resilience YEP,

1177
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 2: talking about everything we are talking about now with the leaders,

1178
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 2: and that's on Spotify, it's on any site where you

1179
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 2: get your podcasts.

1180
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 1: And how often you're putting the pods out, it's coming

1181
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:01,120
Speaker 1: out once per week, one a week. Wow. And you're

1182
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:03,439
Speaker 1: getting by some of you getting great guests in there

1183
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 1: to talk about this resilience issue. And it's not just

1184
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:11,480
Speaker 1: resilience in for pilots as resilience across the board.

1185
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 2: It's not for parts at all. I do have one

1186
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:16,320
Speaker 2: person on saying what it's going to take if you

1187
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 2: want to be a pilot. These are the skill sets

1188
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 2: you need before, during, and after. So no, it's resilience

1189
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 2: for your personal, corporate, national lives from the children that

1190
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 2: have just been born through to resilience of the elderly

1191
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 2: that you don't want to help, don't want to let

1192
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 2: them get lonely or stop moving, you know, resilience for

1193
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 2: their life. It's a wonderful, wonderful topic, and I've got

1194
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 2: the most extraordinary people talking and it's a thrill to

1195
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 2: do it.

1196
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:49,479
Speaker 1: Well. I really do hope people tune into that because

1197
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:52,840
Speaker 1: that's given your right level of intelligence and obsessiveness with

1198
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 1: getting things right and understanding of those things, I'm sure

1199
01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 1: everyone's going to learn a hell of a lot, especially

1200
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 1: business people who listen to our podcast. To say, Richard,

1201
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 1: thanks Mike,