WEBVTT - Conversations with Cornesy - Amanda Goff

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<v Speaker 1>I guess on conversations today is Amanda goth. Now you

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<v Speaker 1>might not recognize the name, but you certainly would recognize

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<v Speaker 1>her her pseudonym Samantha X. And she's written a new

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<v Speaker 1>book called Misfit, The Unraveling of Samantha X. Samantha hang on, Sorry, Amanda, Amanda,

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<v Speaker 1>welcome to the program.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you. Everyone gets it muddled up. Don't worry. I

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<v Speaker 2>sort of am still Samantha deep down.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you sensitive about that? Though?

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<v Speaker 2>Not at all? No, I sort of think when you know,

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<v Speaker 2>my old next door neighbor used to call me Samantha,

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<v Speaker 2>and I thought, what websites? No, not at all. I

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<v Speaker 2>mean I created her. She is part of me.

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<v Speaker 1>So you've had two previous books hooked back on top.

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<v Speaker 1>Now you wrote in this book you can't believe you

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<v Speaker 1>wrote them. What do you mean by that?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, looking back now, it hooked and back on top.

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<v Speaker 2>They were very sexually explicit, well reasonably sexually explicit, and

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<v Speaker 2>to me, I just think, God, I can't believe I

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<v Speaker 2>wrote all of this. I did, and it's out there

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<v Speaker 2>and they did pretty well. So I think, especially these days,

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<v Speaker 2>erotica is very in demand, especially with women, so I

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<v Speaker 2>have to maybe relaunch the books. I was a bit

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<v Speaker 2>ahead of the times about ten years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a different book either. The fore word is

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<v Speaker 1>written by a professor of psychiatry, Gordon Parker. He's also

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<v Speaker 1>headed up Black Dog. Then he talks about bipolar iiO

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<v Speaker 1>and obviously you've been diagnosed with that. Yes, did you

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<v Speaker 1>realize you had mental health issues?

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<v Speaker 2>I think everyone else around me realized. I think I

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<v Speaker 2>was probably the last tact to know. I just thought

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<v Speaker 2>it was part of my character. I just had all

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<v Speaker 2>my life the periods of what I now know is

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<v Speaker 2>mania and chronic depression, and I just thought that was

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<v Speaker 2>just me. I didn't realize it was an actual illness

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<v Speaker 2>or disorder and that there could be treatment for it.

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<v Speaker 2>But looking back some of the decisions I made, and

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<v Speaker 2>very publicly too, and a lot of things I did,

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<v Speaker 2>I look back and I think, you know, it gives

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<v Speaker 2>me context. Bipolar just gives me context. It doesn't certainly

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't excuse my behavior or I can blame bipolar, but

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<v Speaker 2>it helps me understand myself a bit more.

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<v Speaker 1>Pretty frank about your behavior, particularly about your first visit

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<v Speaker 1>to the Church of Saint Margaret Margret, I think you

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<v Speaker 1>say that just explain that for us. Obviously the first

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<v Speaker 1>time you went there, you weren't in a good space.

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<v Speaker 2>I first went to So it's in this church is

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<v Speaker 2>in a little village called Cortona, which is in Tuscany,

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<v Speaker 2>near Tuscany, and my sister lives in Italy. And inside

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<v Speaker 2>the church is the mummified body of Santa Margharita, which

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<v Speaker 2>is who was and I can't remember when she.

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<v Speaker 1>Was alive escapes thirteenth century.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, thirteenth century.

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<v Speaker 1>Give the date in the book. Actually it's twelve or so.

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<v Speaker 2>Apparently another symptom of bipole, his memory loss. So I've

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<v Speaker 2>got an excuse. And she was the ordained saint for misfits,

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<v Speaker 2>so lapovorell which means misfits, so prostitutes, you know, robbers,

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<v Speaker 2>divorced women, single mothers, that kind of those kind of

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<v Speaker 2>people people I relate to. And when I went to

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<v Speaker 2>this see the church with my sister many many moons ago,

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<v Speaker 2>I was drunk, and so I went back recently and

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<v Speaker 2>I sort of got to make amends with her, because

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<v Speaker 2>it's not every day that you see a mummified body

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<v Speaker 2>of a saint ordained, a woman ordained who helped and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to say prostitutes and back in the day,

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<v Speaker 2>but she did so.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, pretty graphic about her body. I mean, I just

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<v Speaker 1>lies it's a mummified Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I've never seen any body, thankfully, and I saw I

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<v Speaker 2>saw her body and it was just it didn't even

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<v Speaker 2>look like a body. It was just so it looked

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<v Speaker 2>like if you blow on it, it would disintegrate. But

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<v Speaker 2>it was dressed in you know, in in a shroud

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<v Speaker 2>and holding the cross. It was fascinating and her history

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<v Speaker 2>is fascinating and it's a beautiful church and anyone who

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<v Speaker 2>is in Cortona, I really suggest you go and see it.

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<v Speaker 1>So was there an epiphany of sorts? I thought, all,

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<v Speaker 1>I've got to go back and make amends, to sign

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<v Speaker 1>to Marguerite.

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<v Speaker 2>I think subconsciously there was, Yes, subconsciously it was quite

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<v Speaker 2>a pivotal moment. He was in the middle of me

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<v Speaker 2>writing my book as well, and that's where the title

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<v Speaker 2>Misfits came from, because she was the saint for misfits.

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<v Speaker 1>We go back because I'm fascinated about this journey of yours.

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<v Speaker 1>Where were you born?

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<v Speaker 2>I was born in London, Southwest London. I was born

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<v Speaker 2>in ham Smith and I grew up in Wimbledon, it

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<v Speaker 2>which is southwest London.

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<v Speaker 1>And what was the family history? What did what did

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<v Speaker 1>mom and dad do?

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<v Speaker 2>My father was a very successful lawyer, he had his

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<v Speaker 2>own law company in London, and my mother was a

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<v Speaker 2>speech therapist. And I went to a private girls school,

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<v Speaker 2>very privileged. I went to Wimbledon High School for girls.

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<v Speaker 2>Funnily enough, I haven't been invited back for a careers.

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<v Speaker 2>They might just skip over my name. So I had

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<v Speaker 2>a very reprivileged life. You know, I was the eldest child.

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<v Speaker 2>There were issues at home. I no longer have a

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<v Speaker 2>relationship with my family. I think me being a very

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<v Speaker 2>public escort was the nail on the coffin, but it

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<v Speaker 2>was quite a dysfunctional relationship before then.

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<v Speaker 1>It's one of the why what was it? Were you?

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<v Speaker 1>Were you a rebel or No?

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't have a relationship with my mum basically.

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<v Speaker 1>So it always fascinates me. Why does a daughter not

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<v Speaker 1>have a relationship with their mother.

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<v Speaker 2>I genuinely think some women don't love their daughters, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>And I you know, I have careful what I say

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<v Speaker 2>because my mum's still alive. But I generally think that

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<v Speaker 2>some women. I'm not going to say my mum was

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<v Speaker 2>one of these women have a very complex relationship with daughters.

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<v Speaker 2>It's maybe, you know, as they see their daughter grow,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just a mirror reflection of themselves and what they're

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<v Speaker 2>what they're growing out of or getting old or whatever. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>she didn't have a great upbringing herself, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>I bore the brunt of it being the oldest. So

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<v Speaker 2>I had no sort of primary female role model in

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<v Speaker 2>my life. And I know a lot of sex workers

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<v Speaker 2>also have a lot of mummy issues. Everyone assumes it's

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<v Speaker 2>father issues, but it's actually mother issues.

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<v Speaker 1>What was your relationship like with your dad?

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<v Speaker 2>It was okay, it was okay. They had a very

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<v Speaker 2>sort of I could say, toxic relationship. And again I

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<v Speaker 2>got in the middle of that, so it was it

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<v Speaker 2>was he was a great he was a good parent. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>my dad was a good parent.

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<v Speaker 1>But it seems as though your career path was traditional.

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<v Speaker 1>You had a good education. Did you go straight into journalism?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, I did. I was so when I came out

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<v Speaker 2>of school, I went to university and I studied a

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<v Speaker 2>course called humanities, which was the biggest waste of time,

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<v Speaker 2>and then I went to journalism. College. I was paid

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<v Speaker 2>to go to journalism college by newspaper in London, and

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<v Speaker 2>so they trained me up to be a journalist. And

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<v Speaker 2>then I worked on the tabloid It's in London, chasing

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<v Speaker 2>celebrities down the street with paparazzi photographers, totally unethical stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>And I remember meeting Piers Morgan, who at the time

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<v Speaker 2>was the editor of The Mirror, and I was doing

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<v Speaker 2>some freelance shifts on the Mirror. I won't say what

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<v Speaker 2>I used to find out in the Mirror newspaper, but

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<v Speaker 2>it was explosive. So I love my time. I can't say.

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<v Speaker 1>You can't say that you have to give us some

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<v Speaker 1>give us just a tidbit.

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<v Speaker 2>When it was in the era of the phone hacking times.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm not going to say whether I witnessed any

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<v Speaker 2>of that, but it was in that time, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think a lot of the people I worked with, not

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<v Speaker 2>just the Mirror but in that newspaper group, some of

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<v Speaker 2>them have gone to prison.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you ever listen into private phone calls?

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<v Speaker 2>No comment, I'm going to say no, but okay, my

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<v Speaker 2>memory is terrible memory.

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<v Speaker 1>So what was your life like as a as a journalist?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, it sounds it's intrusive, but it's also it

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<v Speaker 1>sounded like it's quite exciting to chase the celebrities around.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was the era of Princess Diana, and you

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<v Speaker 2>know it was it was I used to wait outside

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<v Speaker 2>a celebrities house for twelve hours just to get a

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<v Speaker 2>snap shot of them with a photographer, and it was

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<v Speaker 2>why I wanted to be a journalist. It was exciting

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<v Speaker 2>and sometimes unethical, but I loved it. And then when

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<v Speaker 2>I moved to Australia when I was twenty six twenty seven,

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<v Speaker 2>I remember working for a magazine and writing up an

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<v Speaker 2>interview I done I had done with I think a

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<v Speaker 2>famous violinist, and I added a bit of color to

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<v Speaker 2>it being a tabloid preyer journalist. And my editor said, Amanda,

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<v Speaker 2>stopped making stuff up here. We don't misquote people in Australia,

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<v Speaker 2>and I remember thinking, God, how boring. You know you

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<v Speaker 2>actually want back because in London we just used to

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<v Speaker 2>make celebrities sound more exciting than they were, and celebrities

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<v Speaker 2>didn't mine because to be in a tabloid newspaper in

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<v Speaker 2>London was a massive It was a massive thing, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like it's the celeb needed the press just as much

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<v Speaker 2>as the press and needed the celebrities.

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<v Speaker 1>But not if you're writing mistruths about them.

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<v Speaker 2>It wasn't mistruths necessarily, It was more adding a bit

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<v Speaker 2>of color to their quotes. But they didn't used to

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<v Speaker 2>complain because number one, they can't who can afford to

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<v Speaker 2>take on a big newspaper like the mirror of the

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<v Speaker 2>Sunday people. And you know, any publicity is good publicity.

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<v Speaker 1>So what was happening in your private life while you're

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<v Speaker 1>you're this tablaud journalist.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it wasn't great, to be honest. You know, I'd

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<v Speaker 2>always suffered anorexia when I was a kid, and yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I was a bit lost. I didn't really I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>live with my parents, so I sort of lived with

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<v Speaker 2>boyfriends or with friends, and you know, I had no

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<v Speaker 2>idea who I was. You know, I used to get

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of attention from men, and I suppose that's

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<v Speaker 2>where I got my validation from because I wasn't getting

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<v Speaker 2>it anywhere else. And so yeah, I would have these highs,

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<v Speaker 2>but I didn't know that we were highs. And I

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<v Speaker 2>would be so disassociated sometimes and my anxiety was through

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<v Speaker 2>the roof, like I couldn't get on a London underground

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<v Speaker 2>tube because I'd get my panic attacks were so bad

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<v Speaker 2>and so I didn't know what was wrong with me.

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<v Speaker 2>Like we didn't discuss mental health in those days. I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't know there was such a thing as anxiety, but

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<v Speaker 2>I suffered it really badly.

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<v Speaker 1>Amanda GoF is my guest. We need to take a break.

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<v Speaker 1>A new book is called Misfit, The Unraveling of Samantha X.

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<v Speaker 1>Back shortly, Welcome back to conversations. My guest today is

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<v Speaker 1>Amanda Gough. Now you might remember Amanda's Samantha X, who

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<v Speaker 1>shot to fame here in Australia, Australia's highest I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know about highest paid, but most high profile escort. But it's

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<v Speaker 1>a sad story and a sense that that her upbringing

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<v Speaker 1>was I would say troubled, which she suffered from anxiety

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<v Speaker 1>and a Redixia didn't have a great relationship with her

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<v Speaker 1>mother and father. Working as a tabloid journalist, decides to

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<v Speaker 1>come to Australia. What prompted the move to come to Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to live in the sunshine and I wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to get as far away from my family as possible.

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<v Speaker 2>To be honest, and I couldn't think of a more

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<v Speaker 2>further away place in Australia. I'd never been to Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>I just used to get books out on the library

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<v Speaker 2>on Sydney and I knew inherently deep down that's where

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<v Speaker 2>I was meant to be. So I ended. I was

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<v Speaker 2>working as the features editor of a magazine in London

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<v Speaker 2>at the time, and I said to them I really

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<v Speaker 2>want to move to Sydney. Can you get me a job?

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<v Speaker 2>Then they managed to transfer me to the same magazine,

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<v Speaker 2>but based in Sydney.

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<v Speaker 1>Were you married by then?

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<v Speaker 2>No? No, no, I've never been married. No no, no, I

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<v Speaker 2>was single and I didn't know a soul in Australia,

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<v Speaker 2>not one person. But I packed my bags, signed a

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<v Speaker 2>two year I actually think it was a four year

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<v Speaker 2>two or four year contract, and off I went.

0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:51.040
<v Speaker 1>I hope you're not offended by this question, But were

0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:54.600
<v Speaker 1>you a promistuous young lady?

0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:01.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, looking back, I probably thought about it

0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:02.920
<v Speaker 2>more than I actually did it, As most people do

0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:07.600
<v Speaker 2>with sex. You know, it wasn't that I was promiscuous necessarily.

0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:10.320
<v Speaker 2>It was that I allowed men to take advantage of

0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:13.120
<v Speaker 2>me because I had no idea about boundaries and consent.

0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:15.480
<v Speaker 2>I actually thought you were you know, it was my

0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:17.520
<v Speaker 2>job as a woman to please men, and if I

0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:19.720
<v Speaker 2>didn't please them, they would get angry. That's what I felt.

0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:21.640
<v Speaker 2>That's what I thought about men. I didn't realize I

0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:23.560
<v Speaker 2>could have a say in the matter. I was never

0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:24.040
<v Speaker 2>told that.

0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:27.400
<v Speaker 1>I never learned that you have a daughter? Now I do.

0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.320
<v Speaker 1>Are you guiding us strongly in that we have?

0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:32.960
<v Speaker 2>We have a yes, And she's completely the opposite to me.

0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.480
<v Speaker 2>And I think when you don't have a mother, you become.

0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:37.520
<v Speaker 2>I became a mother that I wish I did have,

0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:41.800
<v Speaker 2>and we are extremely close and I'm very blessed to

0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.560
<v Speaker 2>have her in my life. And she's my children have

0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:48.560
<v Speaker 2>taught me a lot how to love and be loved,

0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:51.680
<v Speaker 2>which I've talked about in my book. And I hope

0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:54.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm by no means a perfect parent, but I hope

0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:56.760
<v Speaker 2>I've taught them a lot of things that I wish

0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:57.560
<v Speaker 2>i'd known.

0:12:58.000 --> 0:12:59.400
<v Speaker 1>Let's go back to you get on a plane, you

0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:01.199
<v Speaker 1>come to Sydney, you don't know anybody. You've got a

0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:04.120
<v Speaker 1>job on a tabloid, which were Women's.

0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:06.280
<v Speaker 2>Day it was. That's life. I've worked on Women's Day.

0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:08.760
<v Speaker 2>But it was That's Life magazine, which was great fun

0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:11.920
<v Speaker 2>because I was still interviewing people. I mean, I don't

0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.640
<v Speaker 2>really care much for celebrities, since I find them quite dull.

0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.920
<v Speaker 2>I actually love real people and real stories, so I

0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:21.920
<v Speaker 2>would I used to be. I am still fascinated about

0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:24.640
<v Speaker 2>people's stories, you know, because everyone has a story. And

0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:26.640
<v Speaker 2>I think that's why I loved my job as an

0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.960
<v Speaker 2>escort so much, because I would hear so many stories

0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:32.440
<v Speaker 2>from men and it was just so compelling for me

0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.040
<v Speaker 2>as a journalist that I wrote to you know, my

0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:36.840
<v Speaker 2>first two books were about their stories.

0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:39.360
<v Speaker 1>So you're working as a journalist in Syne.

0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:40.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, what happened?

0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:49.760
<v Speaker 1>What happened? Tell me what all of a sudden are you? Well?

0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:51.800
<v Speaker 2>One is a more ethical career. I guess which one

0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:56.040
<v Speaker 2>it is. So I wasn't. Yeah, Well, I met someone

0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:59.280
<v Speaker 2>and we had two children, and you know, I had

0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:04.360
<v Speaker 2>a very nice, white picket fence life, and then I

0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:06.760
<v Speaker 2>just there was something about it that I wasn't happy.

0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:09.560
<v Speaker 2>I was I was suffocating in this relationship. We never married,

0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:13.200
<v Speaker 2>but we had children. It was you know, committed, and

0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:16.160
<v Speaker 2>I just there was nothing against him. I just it

0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.760
<v Speaker 2>was more what that life represented and that was, you know,

0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:21.760
<v Speaker 2>the same thing, day in day out for the rest

0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:24.400
<v Speaker 2>of my life, and I just couldn't do it. So

0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:28.160
<v Speaker 2>we separated, and you know, I was a nightmare at

0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.720
<v Speaker 2>the time. I had a lot of anger inside me,

0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:34.040
<v Speaker 2>and I didn't know sort of it was. Looking back,

0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:37.600
<v Speaker 2>I think it was my bipolar bubbling to the surface.

0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:43.040
<v Speaker 2>And I had always been fascinated by sex work, even

0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:46.640
<v Speaker 2>when I was a young girl, and I had I

0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:48.880
<v Speaker 2>was when we separated. I was single for a year

0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:53.480
<v Speaker 2>and I dated men for a year, and I just

0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:56.640
<v Speaker 2>got sick of being messed around by men. So I thought,

0:14:58.040 --> 0:14:59.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to I'm going to take my power back

0:14:59.920 --> 0:15:02.840
<v Speaker 2>up other men, and I'm going to research what it

0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:04.640
<v Speaker 2>is to be a sex worker. And that's what I'm

0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:06.680
<v Speaker 2>going to do. And I don't think any of my

0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:10.200
<v Speaker 2>close friends were shocked, but you know, I didn't know

0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:12.880
<v Speaker 2>anyone in the industry. You know, We've got to remember

0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:16.080
<v Speaker 2>it was over ten years ago. It was not it

0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:18.000
<v Speaker 2>was not talked about in the media. It was there

0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.320
<v Speaker 2>were no podcasts, there was no only fans, there was

0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:23.400
<v Speaker 2>no sex workers writing columns. There was nothing in the

0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.360
<v Speaker 2>media about it. So yeah, I mean I was. As

0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:28.840
<v Speaker 2>soon as I started, I was I was completely hooked

0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:30.600
<v Speaker 2>on the on the industry.

0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:34.320
<v Speaker 1>What was the first one, like my.

0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:38.600
<v Speaker 2>First client, it was Yeah, I won't forget. He was

0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:40.960
<v Speaker 2>just so normal. It was so kitchen table, you know,

0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:45.840
<v Speaker 2>it was just very very ordinary vanilla. I just remember

0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:50.000
<v Speaker 2>the conversation. We just talked about very vanilla stuff. So

0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:52.440
<v Speaker 2>and I remember thinking, my god, is this it? And

0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:55.040
<v Speaker 2>I was almost disappointed. I thought, you know, the job

0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:57.920
<v Speaker 2>was going to be magical and mystical and sexy and decadent.

0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:00.800
<v Speaker 2>It was very It was like a therapy session and

0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:03.800
<v Speaker 2>I got paid hands for it. So that was it.

0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:04.360
<v Speaker 2>I was hooked.

0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Were you satisfied as well?

0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:14.160
<v Speaker 2>You'll have to read my book about that. Sex is

0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.160
<v Speaker 2>sex and sex and sex. It's aways an anti climax,

0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:19.840
<v Speaker 2>let's be honest. But men weren't coming for sex, were

0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:20.800
<v Speaker 2>coming for a whole lot more.

0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, there's a quote in your book that I

0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:26.840
<v Speaker 1>was really interested in. No man has ever been as

0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:28.360
<v Speaker 1>nice to me as a client has.

0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.000
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I think I think a lot of women will

0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:35.000
<v Speaker 2>understand that. And still to this day, I get dicked

0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:37.760
<v Speaker 2>around by men all the time. Still when I'm Samantha,

0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:42.080
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't. Men were very respectful. They were terrified of me.

0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.440
<v Speaker 2>They were very intimidated, and I had control. Now I'm

0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:49.680
<v Speaker 2>dating in the real world. Let's just say this is

0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:54.440
<v Speaker 2>when I missed Samantha. Not only am I dicked around Graham,

0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.240
<v Speaker 2>but I'm poor with it too, So I'm not even

0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.960
<v Speaker 2>mentioning money from them. So I think when a woman

0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:05.800
<v Speaker 2>has become an escort or has dipped their toe into

0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:08.840
<v Speaker 2>the adult industry, it's incredibly hard to go back to

0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.960
<v Speaker 2>real life and real dating and real disappointment. And not

0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:16.199
<v Speaker 2>every man is disappointing, present company excluded, of course, but

0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:18.960
<v Speaker 2>it's very I mean, it's no secret that dating is

0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:20.560
<v Speaker 2>really challenging these days.

0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.680
<v Speaker 1>What did your friends, What did your ex partner, father

0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.560
<v Speaker 1>and children to say when he found out this was

0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:29.000
<v Speaker 1>your chosen profession.

0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:36.959
<v Speaker 2>Well, he's someone who's very conservative. I mean, yeah, it was.

0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:39.679
<v Speaker 2>It didn't go down too well, but we were separated,

0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:42.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, like it didn't go down too well. I

0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.119
<v Speaker 2>don't think he really understood it, and I think a

0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.920
<v Speaker 2>lot of people close to me didn't understand.

0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.439
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to harp on this career, but of

0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:52.360
<v Speaker 1>course it's.

0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:57.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, I am it was amazing to me that men

0:17:57.400 --> 0:17:59.720
<v Speaker 2>pretend to know nothing about the industries. Every single man

0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:03.520
<v Speaker 2>asked open to is completely dumbfounded about the industry. But

0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:05.800
<v Speaker 2>is there the ones that are funding it? Yeah?

0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:08.760
<v Speaker 1>Nod he go. How did you get your first client?

0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:14.159
<v Speaker 2>I worked for a high end establishment, like a you

0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:18.600
<v Speaker 2>know it was. So it was a madam in North Sydney.

0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:20.240
<v Speaker 2>So she had one of these heart This is back

0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:22.840
<v Speaker 2>in the day, you got to remember. It was so exciting.

0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:25.920
<v Speaker 2>So it was a penthouse suite in a higher rise

0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:29.160
<v Speaker 2>in North Sydney and the madam was this wonderful woman

0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:32.360
<v Speaker 2>called Francesca who dressed in leopard print. She was very

0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:36.440
<v Speaker 2>posh and she had about three girls that worked for her.

0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:40.000
<v Speaker 2>So I managed to locate this woman by sheer chance,

0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:44.760
<v Speaker 2>and yeah, we became very close. So I would go

0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:48.159
<v Speaker 2>to this penthouse in North Sydney every Saturday and Sunday.

0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:50.480
<v Speaker 2>And I realized I was making more money and having

0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.199
<v Speaker 2>more fun in that Saturday and Sunday than I was

0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:55.399
<v Speaker 2>in my five day week job. That I was getting

0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:59.120
<v Speaker 2>paid terribly for working, you know, ten hours a day

0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:01.440
<v Speaker 2>and barely seeing my children.

0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:04.320
<v Speaker 1>So so, how much did you charge? Well, how much

0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:05.160
<v Speaker 1>did you charge in that.

0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:07.440
<v Speaker 2>At the height of my career, I was fifteen hundred

0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:12.280
<v Speaker 2>dollars for an hour. My most popular date was dinner dates,

0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:14.520
<v Speaker 2>which literally is the dinner date, and that was about

0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:15.840
<v Speaker 2>five thousand dollars.

0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:20.120
<v Speaker 1>Wow, did you have a regular client who would pay

0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:21.080
<v Speaker 1>five thousand dollars?

0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.679
<v Speaker 2>I had many regular clients. Yes, they were all regular

0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:26.520
<v Speaker 2>clients by the end. Like there were men I've known

0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:28.800
<v Speaker 2>for ten years and I still speak to them and

0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:29.840
<v Speaker 2>I still love them dearly.

0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:34.679
<v Speaker 1>Amanda Gough, it is my guest. There are so many questions.

0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:38.280
<v Speaker 1>Her new book is called Misfit, The Unraveling of Samantha Rex.

0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:40.840
<v Speaker 1>So we're spending as much time putting it back together

0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.720
<v Speaker 1>those but we'll get onto the new book after the

0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:47.400
<v Speaker 1>break back shortly. If you've just tuned into conversations, folks,

0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:51.240
<v Speaker 1>I'm talking to Amanda Gough, who you may remember of

0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:53.680
<v Speaker 1>Samantha Rex, and she has a new book called Misfits,

0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:57.439
<v Speaker 1>The Unraveling of Samantha Rex, and we've been chatting about

0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:02.479
<v Speaker 1>her adventurous life as a as an escort. Tell me,

0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:08.080
<v Speaker 1>as a sex worker with things like sexual transmitters, diseases

0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:09.960
<v Speaker 1>and things like that, how do you handle on them?

0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:11.600
<v Speaker 1>How do you take precautions against them.

0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.760
<v Speaker 2>I've never even caught a cold, never caught a cold

0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:17.440
<v Speaker 2>of a client, you know, I think. I think whys

0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:19.440
<v Speaker 2>are more at risk of catching things off their cheating

0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:22.520
<v Speaker 2>husbands to be honest when they go on business trips

0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:26.360
<v Speaker 2>than a sex worker. A sex worker has regular tests.

0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:28.760
<v Speaker 2>You know. No other woman I think in the world

0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:33.160
<v Speaker 2>has sexually transmitted tests every three months. And of course

0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.320
<v Speaker 2>you use protection. But I've never been caught a cold

0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:35.840
<v Speaker 2>of a client.

0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:38.040
<v Speaker 1>When did you realize it wasn't for you?

0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:42.679
<v Speaker 2>I never realized it wasn't for me. I guess I

0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:47.199
<v Speaker 2>got sick of being known for that. But as I

0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:48.879
<v Speaker 2>got it, I got I guess I got sick of

0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.520
<v Speaker 2>always writing the same thing in my columns and always

0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:54.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, being known as Samantha. But the job I

0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:56.439
<v Speaker 2>never had an issue with. And I still don't have

0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:58.840
<v Speaker 2>an issue with the job. And I think I know

0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:02.040
<v Speaker 2>I was under a lot of pressure to stop or

0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:06.680
<v Speaker 2>certainly stopping so vocal about it. But the job, the job,

0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:08.600
<v Speaker 2>I never I never had a problem with.

0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:10.840
<v Speaker 1>That's another thing I've been trigting in your book. You

0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:14.560
<v Speaker 1>don't kiss the kissing, you see, No, I.

0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:17.919
<v Speaker 2>Think kissing is very intimate. So yeah, I reserve that

0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:21.360
<v Speaker 2>for people in my real life. And I say real

0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:23.880
<v Speaker 2>life because Samantha was a character I created.

0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:26.440
<v Speaker 1>Well, you've been flippant when you said you had a

0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:29.120
<v Speaker 1>boyfriend for five hours, which is a record for you.

0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:36.760
<v Speaker 2>I can't remember saying okay, yeah, I've been well, I

0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:38.159
<v Speaker 2>can't remember which boyfriend that was.

0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:39.800
<v Speaker 1>Well, you wrote it like.

0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:45.520
<v Speaker 2>My relationships are not my strong point, my strong point,

0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:49.520
<v Speaker 2>which is why being Samantha suited me, because as I

0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:53.040
<v Speaker 2>also wrote, snapshots of intimacy suit me best rather than

0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:56.440
<v Speaker 2>long stretches of relationships. It's just not who I am.

0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:59.480
<v Speaker 1>So the book, I mean, as flippant as we're being

0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:03.240
<v Speaker 1>here having fun, the book is quite serious. When you

0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:08.160
<v Speaker 1>talk about your bipolar diagnosis, how did you? How did

0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:09.440
<v Speaker 1>you come to be diagnosed?

0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:17.960
<v Speaker 2>So I stopped drinking and how and why through twelve

0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:22.960
<v Speaker 2>step recovery which is also known as Alcoholics Anonymous, which

0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:25.760
<v Speaker 2>those meetings probably saved my life. So I'm very grateful

0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:26.520
<v Speaker 2>to those RUMs.

0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:28.560
<v Speaker 1>Can I pause there? So you had to go along

0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:32.280
<v Speaker 1>at the meetings, you had to stand up and say

0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:35.280
<v Speaker 1>what they say? What was that like for you?

0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:42.880
<v Speaker 2>At first? It was terrifying also, I inherently, subconsciously, unconsciously

0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:46.639
<v Speaker 2>did not and struggle with the word alcoholic. I just

0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:49.520
<v Speaker 2>know I had a problem with drinking. My life would

0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:52.000
<v Speaker 2>turn to mat to a mess. I would It would

0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:54.920
<v Speaker 2>be chaotic, and I had to stop. And the only

0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:57.840
<v Speaker 2>way I could stop willpower is not enough for most people.

0:22:58.600 --> 0:23:00.919
<v Speaker 2>The only way I could stop was to take accountability

0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:05.560
<v Speaker 2>for my actions and be with people who were in

0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:09.119
<v Speaker 2>the same position as me. So meetings really helped me.

0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:12.320
<v Speaker 2>You know, I never went to rehab or hospital or anything.

0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:14.600
<v Speaker 2>It was never that bad, but I could see it

0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:16.720
<v Speaker 2>was progressing that way. So I nipped it in the

0:23:16.720 --> 0:23:17.679
<v Speaker 2>bud pretty quickly.

0:23:18.240 --> 0:23:20.280
<v Speaker 1>And did you go cold turkey? Did you just stop?

0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:22.960
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't that I had to go cold turkey because

0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:25.320
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't drinking every day or even every week. It

0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:27.760
<v Speaker 2>was more when I did drink, i'd binge drink, and

0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:32.199
<v Speaker 2>then you know, the knock on effect was disastrous. So

0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:33.800
<v Speaker 2>then I wouldn't. I wouldn't drink for a few weeks,

0:23:33.840 --> 0:23:35.560
<v Speaker 2>and then I drink again, and then the knock on

0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:38.560
<v Speaker 2>effect was disastrous. So I just had to break the cycle.

0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:41.720
<v Speaker 2>So the best thing to break the cycle was, yeah,

0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:44.040
<v Speaker 2>just quitting that like, there's no I just had to

0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:47.399
<v Speaker 2>start at day one, and it's been a bumpy ride.

0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:51.159
<v Speaker 2>I had one relapse four years ago, but I mean,

0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:53.719
<v Speaker 2>I haven't had alcohol for six years, and I relapsed

0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:56.760
<v Speaker 2>on a mind altering drug we call it in AA

0:23:56.880 --> 0:24:00.680
<v Speaker 2>and yeah, so but no boosts six years. I think

0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:02.440
<v Speaker 2>that's important to acknowledge.

0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:05.040
<v Speaker 1>That what's the mind ordering drug.

0:24:05.359 --> 0:24:07.680
<v Speaker 2>Or marijuana, you know, something like that.

0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:12.680
<v Speaker 1>I've spoken to alcoholics before and recovering alcoholics, and particularly women.

0:24:12.720 --> 0:24:15.879
<v Speaker 1>They realize they're in trouble when they wake up in

0:24:15.920 --> 0:24:18.320
<v Speaker 1>the morning and they're not sure who where they are

0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:20.720
<v Speaker 1>and who they're with. Did you have that experience?

0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:25.119
<v Speaker 2>No, I woke I would wake up with bruises, wondering

0:24:25.160 --> 0:24:28.080
<v Speaker 2>where my bag was, wondering how I got home, piecing

0:24:28.119 --> 0:24:32.520
<v Speaker 2>together parts of the night, apologizing to certain people. Yeah,

0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:35.639
<v Speaker 2>and then but it wasn't just my actions when I

0:24:35.680 --> 0:24:39.320
<v Speaker 2>was drinking. It was the week after I would you know,

0:24:39.400 --> 0:24:42.960
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't work, I would look like death. I would

0:24:43.000 --> 0:24:48.280
<v Speaker 2>be really unwell, guilt, shame, remorse, making amends to people,

0:24:48.640 --> 0:24:51.080
<v Speaker 2>and then by the end of the week I'd feel

0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:53.439
<v Speaker 2>better again. And then the cycle would just repeat and

0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:55.600
<v Speaker 2>It's very common, particularly for women when they get to

0:24:55.640 --> 0:24:58.040
<v Speaker 2>a certain age, that we can't handle our alcohol. You know,

0:24:58.080 --> 0:25:01.560
<v Speaker 2>white wine. It was like poison for me, and I

0:25:01.600 --> 0:25:03.640
<v Speaker 2>do miss it. Sometimes I have to say, I have this,

0:25:04.280 --> 0:25:09.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, rose tinted spectacles vision of what sitting down

0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:10.720
<v Speaker 2>and having a glass of wine would be like. But

0:25:10.760 --> 0:25:13.119
<v Speaker 2>then it's just not worth the risk that I could

0:25:13.359 --> 0:25:16.719
<v Speaker 2>destroy everything I've worked really hard for my sobriety and

0:25:16.760 --> 0:25:20.159
<v Speaker 2>my stability and my peace of mind. And with bipolar

0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:22.680
<v Speaker 2>you can't drink basically because of the medication.

0:25:24.040 --> 0:25:26.520
<v Speaker 1>So when did you make the break and how did

0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:28.359
<v Speaker 1>you make the break from escort service?

0:25:29.480 --> 0:25:32.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's a good question because I think that there

0:25:32.400 --> 0:25:35.720
<v Speaker 2>should be a twelve set step recovery program for sex

0:25:35.720 --> 0:25:39.679
<v Speaker 2>workers because it is incredibly hard to leave the industry.

0:25:41.080 --> 0:25:43.600
<v Speaker 2>So when I was diagnosed with bipolar, and to answer

0:25:43.640 --> 0:25:47.760
<v Speaker 2>your question previous question, I was diagnosed when I stopped

0:25:47.840 --> 0:25:50.840
<v Speaker 2>drinking because my behavior hadn't changed. So I stopped drinking,

0:25:51.240 --> 0:25:53.639
<v Speaker 2>but my behavior is still erratic, and that's when they

0:25:53.680 --> 0:25:56.679
<v Speaker 2>make up the bipolar. And answer to your second question,

0:25:57.200 --> 0:26:00.639
<v Speaker 2>when I was diagnosed with bipolar and medicator, I became

0:26:00.680 --> 0:26:04.200
<v Speaker 2>more grounded and stable and I didn't need to have

0:26:04.240 --> 0:26:07.679
<v Speaker 2>this character Samanth through my life anymore. I didn't need

0:26:07.960 --> 0:26:11.240
<v Speaker 2>to disassociate and run away and escape from my life

0:26:11.240 --> 0:26:14.000
<v Speaker 2>because I started to sort of accept my life and

0:26:14.040 --> 0:26:18.240
<v Speaker 2>accept who I was and heal. So it was quite

0:26:18.480 --> 0:26:20.720
<v Speaker 2>It became quite exhausting to be two different people. So

0:26:20.920 --> 0:26:22.320
<v Speaker 2>I just thought, I'm just going to be one. I'm

0:26:22.320 --> 0:26:24.800
<v Speaker 2>going to go back to being myself, and with that,

0:26:25.040 --> 0:26:26.560
<v Speaker 2>the escorting sort of fell away.

0:26:26.560 --> 0:26:26.760
<v Speaker 1>With that.

0:26:27.359 --> 0:26:28.240
<v Speaker 2>It was quite a relief.

0:26:28.240 --> 0:26:30.840
<v Speaker 1>Actually, what does yourself look like? When you say you

0:26:30.840 --> 0:26:32.399
<v Speaker 1>went back to being yourself? What did that look like?

0:26:32.480 --> 0:26:34.320
<v Speaker 1>Did you go back to journalism.

0:26:34.000 --> 0:26:37.600
<v Speaker 2>Or I have gone back to journalism. Yes, I never

0:26:37.600 --> 0:26:41.439
<v Speaker 2>really stopped being a journalist. I was always writing, you know,

0:26:41.480 --> 0:26:45.840
<v Speaker 2>I wrote books and I wrote for news outlets online.

0:26:46.600 --> 0:26:48.879
<v Speaker 2>I was never I never stopped being a journalist.

0:26:49.240 --> 0:26:53.160
<v Speaker 1>When you say medication, can you explain that? I mean

0:26:53.920 --> 0:26:58.680
<v Speaker 1>people often shy away from medication, but particularly serious medication,

0:26:58.800 --> 0:27:02.240
<v Speaker 1>And it sounds like the medication you want is quite serious.

0:27:02.280 --> 0:27:04.640
<v Speaker 1>Can you can you explain it? Well?

0:27:04.760 --> 0:27:08.679
<v Speaker 2>So I am on a medication called lamactol, which is

0:27:09.200 --> 0:27:11.639
<v Speaker 2>not lithium, but it's I don't know whether it's a

0:27:11.640 --> 0:27:13.720
<v Speaker 2>form of lithium. But it's what a lot of women,

0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:16.840
<v Speaker 2>what people men and women take when they have bipolar.

0:27:17.520 --> 0:27:21.680
<v Speaker 2>It stabilizes. It stabilized me, and it's it can't stop

0:27:22.000 --> 0:27:24.320
<v Speaker 2>the cycle that I go through, but it can make

0:27:24.320 --> 0:27:25.160
<v Speaker 2>it less extreme.

0:27:26.040 --> 0:27:29.600
<v Speaker 1>And there's another issue that affects all women as they

0:27:29.840 --> 0:27:32.159
<v Speaker 1>as they get older, when menopause starts to kick in,

0:27:32.200 --> 0:27:36.600
<v Speaker 1>and that that complicates it. Over are you contemplating what

0:27:36.680 --> 0:27:39.080
<v Speaker 1>life will be like when that happens? You're not.

0:27:40.080 --> 0:27:44.239
<v Speaker 2>How do you know it hasn't happened already? Well, fifty one,

0:27:44.520 --> 0:27:47.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm fifty one. Look, I to be honest, I have

0:27:47.320 --> 0:27:49.959
<v Speaker 2>no idea whether it's happening or not. I presume it is.

0:27:50.440 --> 0:27:56.000
<v Speaker 2>But I take HRT medication, so I take estrogen and testosterone.

0:27:56.480 --> 0:27:59.199
<v Speaker 2>But taking testosterone, I know what it's like to be

0:27:59.200 --> 0:27:59.760
<v Speaker 2>a bloke now.

0:28:00.119 --> 0:28:02.360
<v Speaker 1>So while this is all happening, you've got two young kids.

0:28:02.400 --> 0:28:05.120
<v Speaker 1>You've got two children. What are they noticing about their

0:28:05.119 --> 0:28:08.040
<v Speaker 1>mother as you're transitioning from being.

0:28:08.280 --> 0:28:12.200
<v Speaker 2>But I'm less, you know, like I'm just back. I'm

0:28:12.240 --> 0:28:15.399
<v Speaker 2>just more grounded, you know, I'm making more sensible decisions.

0:28:15.480 --> 0:28:19.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm more present, you know, I really tried in the

0:28:19.040 --> 0:28:20.840
<v Speaker 2>height of my mad I call it my madness. In

0:28:20.840 --> 0:28:25.840
<v Speaker 2>the height of my madness, it didn't really affect my mother,

0:28:26.080 --> 0:28:28.560
<v Speaker 2>my ability to mother. I was very I was still

0:28:28.600 --> 0:28:30.840
<v Speaker 2>like I worked when so we did week on week

0:28:30.880 --> 0:28:33.400
<v Speaker 2>off for many many years. And the weeks I didn't

0:28:33.440 --> 0:28:36.359
<v Speaker 2>have my kids, that's when I would be Samantha and

0:28:36.400 --> 0:28:38.520
<v Speaker 2>I would travel around the country. And when I did

0:28:38.560 --> 0:28:41.880
<v Speaker 2>have my kids, I was Amanda and I was Mum.

0:28:42.840 --> 0:28:46.280
<v Speaker 2>Now they're a lot older, and you know, teenagers being teenagers,

0:28:46.280 --> 0:28:48.160
<v Speaker 2>they spend a lot of time with their friends, et cetera,

0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:52.480
<v Speaker 2>et cetera, university, So I think I think they appreciate

0:28:52.480 --> 0:28:55.360
<v Speaker 2>the fact that they've got a more stable mum who's

0:28:55.360 --> 0:28:55.960
<v Speaker 2>around more.

0:28:56.360 --> 0:28:58.560
<v Speaker 1>They don't have to explain anything to their friends who

0:28:58.640 --> 0:28:59.480
<v Speaker 1>might recognize you.

0:29:00.680 --> 0:29:03.480
<v Speaker 2>I think those days are well over now. I think

0:29:03.680 --> 0:29:08.400
<v Speaker 2>they did have to. But yeah, it was a challenging time.

0:29:09.560 --> 0:29:11.080
<v Speaker 2>But I've certainly taught in brasilience.

0:29:11.880 --> 0:29:15.360
<v Speaker 1>I still have so many questions. Amanda Goff is my guest.

0:29:15.400 --> 0:29:18.760
<v Speaker 1>Folks will take a break back shortly. Welcome back, everybody.

0:29:18.760 --> 0:29:21.840
<v Speaker 1>We're chatting with Amanda Goff, who some of you may

0:29:21.880 --> 0:29:26.800
<v Speaker 1>remember as Samantha X. A very high profile escort. But

0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:30.080
<v Speaker 1>she has a new book, Misfit, The Unraveling of Samantha X,

0:29:30.120 --> 0:29:32.680
<v Speaker 1>and she talks about the mental health issues she've had

0:29:32.720 --> 0:29:36.240
<v Speaker 1>and the difficulties that we're associated with the previous life

0:29:36.280 --> 0:29:40.920
<v Speaker 1>and how she transitioned from that. I did read you

0:29:41.000 --> 0:29:44.120
<v Speaker 1>were a pilates instructor and you're working in Bondi, But

0:29:44.120 --> 0:29:46.880
<v Speaker 1>then I read you've left bonda and gone to Melbourne.

0:29:46.880 --> 0:29:49.440
<v Speaker 1>Now what is your what is your current situation?

0:29:50.240 --> 0:29:54.040
<v Speaker 2>Anyone would think I had bipolar. I'm always making these decisions. Yeah,

0:29:54.040 --> 0:29:56.760
<v Speaker 2>I did study pilates and I have got my qualification

0:29:57.920 --> 0:29:59.680
<v Speaker 2>and I am moving to Melbourne. I've always wanted to

0:29:59.680 --> 0:30:01.560
<v Speaker 2>move to albourn I've been in BONDEI for twenty five

0:30:01.640 --> 0:30:04.920
<v Speaker 2>years and either it's changed or I'm getting old. I

0:30:04.960 --> 0:30:07.080
<v Speaker 2>think a bit of both. So I've always loved Melbourne,

0:30:07.120 --> 0:30:10.320
<v Speaker 2>being a London girl. So yeah, I may or may

0:30:10.360 --> 0:30:14.440
<v Speaker 2>not teach pilates, I don't know, but I'm qualified in it.

0:30:14.440 --> 0:30:17.240
<v Speaker 1>It's a big step, though, to go from BONDAI to Melbourne.

0:30:17.240 --> 0:30:20.560
<v Speaker 1>Melbourne a great place to visit, let's face it, but.

0:30:22.240 --> 0:30:25.320
<v Speaker 2>I just feels changed a lot. It's you know, it's

0:30:25.320 --> 0:30:30.120
<v Speaker 2>full of young influences, and I've always found Melbourne very

0:30:30.120 --> 0:30:35.680
<v Speaker 2>sophisticated city and exciting city. Sydney I think is boring,

0:30:36.200 --> 0:30:39.920
<v Speaker 2>to be honest. It's beautiful but boring, and Melbourne there

0:30:39.920 --> 0:30:41.120
<v Speaker 2>seems to be so much to do and I've got

0:30:41.120 --> 0:30:42.360
<v Speaker 2>a better network in Melbourne.

0:30:42.880 --> 0:30:47.280
<v Speaker 1>You wrote that in BONDI you're a six out of ten. No.

0:30:47.400 --> 0:30:52.480
<v Speaker 2>I didn't like that. I Daily Mail wrote.

0:30:51.440 --> 0:30:52.960
<v Speaker 1>In Melbourne, You're nine out of ten.

0:30:53.240 --> 0:30:58.360
<v Speaker 2>No. I would never say that. That was a That

0:30:58.440 --> 0:31:01.600
<v Speaker 2>was a good, very clickbait headline from the subs, and

0:31:02.560 --> 0:31:04.520
<v Speaker 2>I just had to accept it was going to be

0:31:04.560 --> 0:31:07.400
<v Speaker 2>a week of cringe when it came out. It's passed

0:31:07.440 --> 0:31:08.560
<v Speaker 2>now until we brought it up.

0:31:10.680 --> 0:31:12.840
<v Speaker 1>You can't deflict it like that. You must have said

0:31:12.880 --> 0:31:13.600
<v Speaker 1>it true, So.

0:31:13.720 --> 0:31:16.520
<v Speaker 2>I speak the truth. I didn't like that headline, and

0:31:16.560 --> 0:31:18.760
<v Speaker 2>if you read the column, I didn't actually say those words.

0:31:20.520 --> 0:31:23.720
<v Speaker 1>Well, let's talk about the context of that. You feel

0:31:23.720 --> 0:31:26.320
<v Speaker 1>that you did you feel in Bond Are you that

0:31:26.360 --> 0:31:30.000
<v Speaker 1>you weren't as attractive as you wants?

0:31:30.320 --> 0:31:34.560
<v Speaker 2>I feel no. I don't really think it's about that

0:31:34.880 --> 0:31:38.160
<v Speaker 2>so much being attractive. I just think that I no

0:31:38.200 --> 0:31:42.440
<v Speaker 2>longer recognized Bond lie for the place but I think

0:31:42.480 --> 0:31:44.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm just getting old. I just want to be somewhere

0:31:44.280 --> 0:31:46.600
<v Speaker 2>where it's not all about active where twenty four hours

0:31:46.600 --> 0:31:49.520
<v Speaker 2>a day and influencers. I just want to go where

0:31:49.560 --> 0:31:51.920
<v Speaker 2>it's a proper city and there's more depth to it.

0:31:52.240 --> 0:31:54.400
<v Speaker 2>And I think Bondla has been great. It's the longest

0:31:54.400 --> 0:31:57.600
<v Speaker 2>relationship I've had with anything in anywhere. But it's time

0:31:57.640 --> 0:31:59.440
<v Speaker 2>to move on and I think it's important to evolve,

0:31:59.480 --> 0:32:03.600
<v Speaker 2>and part of evolving is is a new life and

0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:05.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm really excited about it. A lot of people from

0:32:05.840 --> 0:32:09.040
<v Speaker 2>Bondi are actually moving to Adelaide's they watch out.

0:32:09.800 --> 0:32:12.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, I know, but then they've inflated the prices of

0:32:12.200 --> 0:32:17.600
<v Speaker 1>it they come over. We're so unaffordable here in Adelaide now,

0:32:20.040 --> 0:32:23.600
<v Speaker 1>prices of property of just since COVID when we have

0:32:23.720 --> 0:32:26.440
<v Speaker 1>an influx of people coming back, coming back or moving

0:32:26.480 --> 0:32:30.640
<v Speaker 1>to Adelaide, property prices have really escalated. So we know

0:32:30.680 --> 0:32:33.880
<v Speaker 1>they're expensive in Sydney. But yeah, well, if you move

0:32:33.960 --> 0:32:35.680
<v Speaker 1>to Melbourne you have to have a football team. You

0:32:35.720 --> 0:32:38.560
<v Speaker 1>can't with that colleague.

0:32:40.400 --> 0:32:45.200
<v Speaker 2>Well I have a reason for that, because someone wrote,

0:32:45.320 --> 0:32:47.760
<v Speaker 2>because I I put it out there to my to

0:32:47.800 --> 0:32:51.000
<v Speaker 2>my Instagram followers who should I support And someone wrote

0:32:51.080 --> 0:32:54.640
<v Speaker 2>Collingwood because they're the underdogs and everyone hates them and

0:32:54.640 --> 0:32:57.400
<v Speaker 2>they're controversial. So I thought to myself, that sounds like

0:32:57.440 --> 0:33:02.560
<v Speaker 2>a team I would get behind. So yeah, besides nice.

0:33:02.360 --> 0:33:06.400
<v Speaker 1>Colors, they're not the underdogs. They're the biggest team in Australia.

0:33:06.920 --> 0:33:09.400
<v Speaker 2>Well someone said they no one likes them and they're

0:33:09.400 --> 0:33:11.360
<v Speaker 2>controversial or something along with the line.

0:33:11.400 --> 0:33:11.960
<v Speaker 1>That's true.

0:33:12.320 --> 0:33:15.320
<v Speaker 2>So I thought I can get behind someone who's a

0:33:15.400 --> 0:33:17.120
<v Speaker 2>team that's controversial.

0:33:19.000 --> 0:33:23.920
<v Speaker 1>The Adelaide Crows, of course, but in Melbourne. My first

0:33:23.960 --> 0:33:28.000
<v Speaker 1>memory is watching my father play footy in Country Victoria

0:33:28.120 --> 0:33:31.040
<v Speaker 1>and he was wearing a black and white jumper, the

0:33:31.080 --> 0:33:35.640
<v Speaker 1>same as the Collingwood jump. So when I was a

0:33:35.680 --> 0:33:40.200
<v Speaker 1>little boy, I did varry for Collingwood. But moving to

0:33:40.240 --> 0:33:42.880
<v Speaker 1>Adelaide black and white team is Port Adelaide and I

0:33:43.000 --> 0:33:46.120
<v Speaker 1>played for another team and we hate black and white

0:33:46.320 --> 0:33:49.120
<v Speaker 1>in a football since we hate it, So no, you

0:33:49.160 --> 0:33:51.880
<v Speaker 1>can't go wrong with it, will you? Will you attend games?

0:33:52.120 --> 0:33:53.640
<v Speaker 2>There? You go? I haven't been to a game yet,

0:33:53.640 --> 0:33:55.760
<v Speaker 2>but yes, I will be going to games. I will

0:33:55.800 --> 0:33:57.800
<v Speaker 2>be throwing myself in Melbourne.

0:33:57.880 --> 0:34:01.640
<v Speaker 1>Life do you still have relationship? Is in England? Your

0:34:01.680 --> 0:34:02.400
<v Speaker 1>mom's still alive.

0:34:02.600 --> 0:34:04.480
<v Speaker 2>Did your parents live in South France?

0:34:05.040 --> 0:34:09.200
<v Speaker 1>How exotic? As exotic as it sounds.

0:34:09.920 --> 0:34:13.400
<v Speaker 2>South of France, it's beautiful. I personally am not a

0:34:13.400 --> 0:34:17.080
<v Speaker 2>big fan of France. I prefer Italy. England and France

0:34:17.120 --> 0:34:20.800
<v Speaker 2>seemed to have very tense related I've never liked Paris

0:34:20.800 --> 0:34:23.200
<v Speaker 2>that much. I've always thought London was way better. I

0:34:23.280 --> 0:34:25.960
<v Speaker 2>prefer My sister lives in Italy. My parents live in France.

0:34:26.719 --> 0:34:29.800
<v Speaker 2>But my mom's exotic. She's from Iran. She's a Persian princess.

0:34:30.280 --> 0:34:34.000
<v Speaker 1>A Persian princess. You tried to slip that.

0:34:33.960 --> 0:34:36.360
<v Speaker 2>One by us, it says it in my book.

0:34:37.040 --> 0:34:40.000
<v Speaker 1>Well I didn't. I didn't see that. Well, what's her story?

0:34:40.120 --> 0:34:42.480
<v Speaker 2>How did she end up in She's not literally a princess,

0:34:42.520 --> 0:34:44.719
<v Speaker 2>but she came to England where she was very young

0:34:45.920 --> 0:34:49.719
<v Speaker 2>and she yeah, she met my dad when she was

0:34:49.840 --> 0:34:52.120
<v Speaker 2>very young. And yeah, she's from Tehran.

0:34:52.120 --> 0:34:54.160
<v Speaker 1>And was that before or after the downfall of the

0:34:54.239 --> 0:34:55.240
<v Speaker 1>shower before?

0:34:55.920 --> 0:34:59.279
<v Speaker 2>So I think she really missed her life there.

0:34:59.680 --> 0:35:03.160
<v Speaker 1>Do you I have fascination about her family back there?

0:35:03.800 --> 0:35:06.120
<v Speaker 2>I think the older I get, I do, and it's

0:35:06.120 --> 0:35:08.040
<v Speaker 2>a shame we can't talk about it. She never wanted

0:35:08.080 --> 0:35:08.879
<v Speaker 2>to talk about it.

0:35:09.280 --> 0:35:12.839
<v Speaker 1>Really. See if you never met her parents.

0:35:13.480 --> 0:35:15.960
<v Speaker 2>I did. I met her father. I met her father.

0:35:16.120 --> 0:35:20.239
<v Speaker 2>He was a very successful, influential man in Iran. He

0:35:20.320 --> 0:35:25.399
<v Speaker 2>worked with the Shah. But yeah, it was they had

0:35:25.400 --> 0:35:28.319
<v Speaker 2>a very tense relationship. He didn't live in England when

0:35:28.320 --> 0:35:30.680
<v Speaker 2>we were growing up in London. He lived in France.

0:35:31.120 --> 0:35:33.279
<v Speaker 1>There's so much to talk about, but we're really here

0:35:33.320 --> 0:35:35.239
<v Speaker 1>to talk about your book, and we've done everything but

0:35:35.400 --> 0:35:38.799
<v Speaker 1>the Misfits to just give us a broader expansion of

0:35:39.560 --> 0:35:40.800
<v Speaker 1>what's in the book and what do you hope to

0:35:40.840 --> 0:35:41.359
<v Speaker 1>get from it?

0:35:42.440 --> 0:35:46.759
<v Speaker 2>Well, I hope that people who read my book will look,

0:35:46.760 --> 0:35:49.800
<v Speaker 2>I've changed my life at my age, and I think

0:35:50.360 --> 0:35:52.000
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people are too scared to change their

0:35:52.000 --> 0:35:55.840
<v Speaker 2>lives and to reinvent themselves. But to me, it's harder

0:35:55.880 --> 0:35:58.520
<v Speaker 2>to live in the past and not to change. I

0:35:58.560 --> 0:36:02.520
<v Speaker 2>had to evolve. And no one talks about bipolar. We

0:36:02.560 --> 0:36:04.600
<v Speaker 2>all talk about ADHD or you know, that seems to

0:36:04.600 --> 0:36:06.200
<v Speaker 2>be the buzzword these days. But there's a lot of

0:36:06.200 --> 0:36:09.360
<v Speaker 2>people who have bipolar and feel that they're stigmatized because

0:36:09.400 --> 0:36:13.040
<v Speaker 2>people with bipolar are seen as mad and crazy. But

0:36:13.120 --> 0:36:14.839
<v Speaker 2>I feel like it can be a gift. I wrote

0:36:14.840 --> 0:36:17.960
<v Speaker 2>my best selling books in record time. I have achieved

0:36:18.000 --> 0:36:20.759
<v Speaker 2>a lot in mania. A lot of Sportsman Graham have

0:36:20.840 --> 0:36:26.040
<v Speaker 2>bipolar and Winston Churchill, Vank, Winston bankof have bipolar. It

0:36:27.239 --> 0:36:32.960
<v Speaker 2>it can give you immense creativity that can last days, months, years,

0:36:34.000 --> 0:36:37.760
<v Speaker 2>but it also can bring a lot of sadness and depression.

0:36:38.320 --> 0:36:40.759
<v Speaker 2>But as long as you understand that you can manage it.

0:36:40.760 --> 0:36:42.560
<v Speaker 2>It's getting the diagnosis, and a lot of people are

0:36:42.600 --> 0:36:46.160
<v Speaker 2>diagnosed later in life, so you know it's okay not

0:36:46.239 --> 0:36:49.800
<v Speaker 2>to be okay, And you know I've made my mistakes,

0:36:49.920 --> 0:36:52.280
<v Speaker 2>and I made them very publicly, some of my mistakes,

0:36:52.280 --> 0:36:54.319
<v Speaker 2>but I own that and I have no shame. I've

0:36:54.320 --> 0:36:56.600
<v Speaker 2>had to work through that, and I hope that it

0:36:56.880 --> 0:36:59.080
<v Speaker 2>helps people who are maybe in the same boat. You

0:36:59.120 --> 0:37:02.160
<v Speaker 2>don't need to be a high cler escort to make

0:37:02.280 --> 0:37:06.799
<v Speaker 2>mammoths mistakes in your life and to feel shame at

0:37:06.840 --> 0:37:11.800
<v Speaker 2>certain decisions, but you can get through it and realize

0:37:11.800 --> 0:37:13.480
<v Speaker 2>that everyone's a bit mad.

0:37:14.640 --> 0:37:17.279
<v Speaker 1>Well, everyone is a bit mad. Is it hereditary though?

0:37:17.400 --> 0:37:19.320
<v Speaker 1>Does it concerd you that it might be hereditary?

0:37:19.640 --> 0:37:23.200
<v Speaker 2>By Paula? It's caused by trauma. It can be caused

0:37:23.239 --> 0:37:25.000
<v Speaker 2>by trauma, and it can be genetic.

0:37:25.120 --> 0:37:28.080
<v Speaker 1>Yes, what was the trauma that would of course yours?

0:37:28.560 --> 0:37:31.440
<v Speaker 2>Just just growing up and you know, there wasn't one

0:37:31.480 --> 0:37:34.279
<v Speaker 2>single event I could I could point it to. But

0:37:34.400 --> 0:37:40.880
<v Speaker 2>I think that, you know, a very strained relationship with

0:37:40.920 --> 0:37:43.400
<v Speaker 2>my mother. I think was as a young girl was

0:37:44.480 --> 0:37:45.719
<v Speaker 2>looking back, pretty traumatic.

0:37:46.719 --> 0:37:48.719
<v Speaker 1>What feedback if you had from this book, which is

0:37:48.760 --> 0:37:51.720
<v Speaker 1>so different to your other books.

0:37:51.840 --> 0:37:56.640
<v Speaker 2>That's a great question. It's it's more, it's I've had

0:37:56.680 --> 0:37:59.200
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people who have contacted me saying that

0:37:59.200 --> 0:38:03.480
<v Speaker 2>they struggle with bipolar and addiction, and it's amazing btically

0:38:03.520 --> 0:38:07.080
<v Speaker 2>men and I find that, you know, it makes me

0:38:07.120 --> 0:38:09.360
<v Speaker 2>sad that men don't feel they can talk to anyone

0:38:09.360 --> 0:38:12.839
<v Speaker 2>about that and they suffer in silence. And funnily enough,

0:38:12.840 --> 0:38:14.759
<v Speaker 2>a lot of sex workers have contacting me saying that

0:38:14.800 --> 0:38:17.719
<v Speaker 2>they have bipolar too, so much so are created a

0:38:17.719 --> 0:38:20.720
<v Speaker 2>WhatsApp group for a few of us. So it's interesting

0:38:20.760 --> 0:38:24.440
<v Speaker 2>that that people are drawn into the sex industry with bipolar.

0:38:24.880 --> 0:38:27.000
<v Speaker 1>Maybe what's the name of the WhatsApp group?

0:38:30.480 --> 0:38:34.360
<v Speaker 2>Say that grand I cannot I cannot give that away.

0:38:34.760 --> 0:38:38.520
<v Speaker 2>I cannot give that away, but I can add you

0:38:38.560 --> 0:38:38.879
<v Speaker 2>if you.

0:38:38.840 --> 0:38:42.520
<v Speaker 1>Want, I think I'll be right. Thank you, thank you

0:38:42.560 --> 0:38:44.839
<v Speaker 1>for the offer. It's been great chatting. I can see

0:38:44.840 --> 0:38:48.759
<v Speaker 1>why you were so successful as a companion the tope.

0:38:48.760 --> 0:38:50.480
<v Speaker 1>The book goes well for you and people understand you

0:38:50.520 --> 0:38:53.960
<v Speaker 1>a little bit better. Mandy Goff is my guest. Folks.

0:38:53.960 --> 0:38:56.719
<v Speaker 1>A book was called Misfit, The Unraveling of Samantha X.

0:38:57.000 --> 0:39:00.000
<v Speaker 1>It's an Echo publication. Thank you so much for joining us.