Speaker 1: From the Sky News Center. This is Paul Murray Live.
Speaker 2: Well, good evening, everybody, Happy Monday. James Borrow sitting in
Speaker 2: here again in the man Cave for one more week
Speaker 2: on Paul Murray Live. And by the way, how absolutely
Speaker 2: phenomenal was that documentary on the sixtieth anniversary of the
Speaker 2: Australian Hey, fantastic stuff. Now, normally I like to kick
Speaker 2: things off with a bit of domestic politics, but let's
Speaker 2: be honest, there is really only one story going on
Speaker 2: at the moment, and that is the continued reverberations from
Speaker 2: the attempted assassination of former and now even more likely
Speaker 2: future President Donald J.
Speaker 1: Trump. Got a bunch of great guests.
Speaker 2: Coming at you from here in Australia and overseas in
Speaker 2: the United States. But before we start bringing in our
Speaker 2: brilliant panels, let's lay down a few markers about where
Speaker 2: we are and where we've come in the last twenty
Speaker 2: four hours now point one. The politics, the political fallout
Speaker 2: of what just happened yesterday, are beginning to become clear now,
Speaker 2: however awful, and though they could have been a lot worse,
Speaker 2: however awful, the events of the past twenty four to
Speaker 2: thirty six hours have been well. They are going to
Speaker 2: be felt right through November. The images, of course, of
Speaker 2: Donald Trump bouncing back after being shocked, pumping his fist
Speaker 2: in defiance, and all the rest have given new life
Speaker 2: to what was already a surging Republican campaign. Republican voters
Speaker 2: now have a huge enthusiasm lead over the Democrats in
Speaker 2: their minds. They've got a massive reason now to go
Speaker 2: out vote, get their guy in. And remember, America is
Speaker 2: not a compulsory voting country like Australia is. New polls
Speaker 2: just released show Trump with a two to one likelyhood
Speaker 2: of winning Pennsylvania wisconstin Michigan. The betting firm Polly Market
Speaker 2: also says Trump is a seventy seven percent likelihood of
Speaker 2: winning Georgia, seventy eight percent chance of winning Arizona, and
Speaker 2: he's got a seventy nine percent chance of winning Nevada.
Speaker 2: These are huge gains in the polls, and Donald Trump
Speaker 2: has told Washington Examiner reporter Selena Zito that he has
Speaker 2: also gone and torn up his speech for the coming
Speaker 2: Republican convention. He said he now wants to use that
Speaker 2: speech to bring the country together now. Trump called Zito
Speaker 2: earlier today to check in on her. She had been
Speaker 2: right there at the rally nearby when the shots were fired.
Speaker 2: Have listened to what she had to say about that call,
Speaker 2: and I.
Speaker 3: Asked him if I could interview him, just talk to
Speaker 3: him about those moments and about how this changed him.
Speaker 3: And that's when he said, well, I was going to
Speaker 3: do a speech that was going to be a real humdinger.
Speaker 3: I think that's where his exact words. But you know,
Speaker 3: everything changed in that moment. He said he was going
Speaker 3: to focus on bringing the country back together. He thought
Speaker 3: that it was very, very important that in that moment
Speaker 3: when that happened to him, he understood this is what
Speaker 3: he was, what he wants to do, what he's supposed
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 2: And you know what, I think it's going to be
Speaker 2: a real humdigger one way or the other. So that's
Speaker 2: going to be one to watch Friday our time here
Speaker 2: in Australia. Just a reminder, by the way, I'll be
Speaker 2: bringing you a heap of convention coverage Friday night at
Speaker 2: eight pm here on the US Report. But before that, Trump,
Speaker 2: also in that call with Selena Zito, reflected and shared
Speaker 2: a bit of what that moment was like where he
Speaker 2: stood up and raised his fist and what that meant
Speaker 2: and why he did that.
Speaker 4: So it wasn't about him at that moment.
Speaker 3: He wanted to project to those people, and he says
Speaker 3: he loves these people and they are the back.
Speaker 1: But this is a rustbelt area.
Speaker 3: This is a blue collar, white working class, mostly crowd,
Speaker 3: and he wanted to project to the He thought it
Speaker 3: was important to project to the country in that moment
Speaker 3: that everything was okay, that he was okay and the
Speaker 3: country was okay. And I thought that was I thought
Speaker 3: that was really fascinating.
Speaker 2: Look, God, I want to make too big about a
Speaker 2: deal about this, but remember Donald Trump is a guy
Speaker 2: who could have stayed just being a rich property developer
Speaker 2: who was also a pop TV celebrity, and now because
Speaker 2: of what he wants to do for the country, he
Speaker 2: is getting shot at again because of his vision for America.
Speaker 2: And I think that gives a bit of an indication
Speaker 2: of what he's all about, not what CNN and MSNBC
Speaker 2: in the Washington Post tell us we should think he
Speaker 2: is all.
Speaker 1: About so hell of a thing, a hell of a thing.
Speaker 2: And meanwhile, on the Democrat side of the polic well,
Speaker 2: I reckon all of that talk since the assassination attempt
Speaker 2: about Biden stepping out of the way for Kamala Harris
Speaker 2: all over done. Kamala Harris is not going to step in.
Speaker 2: There's not going to be any contestant convention next month.
Speaker 2: According to multiple reports, Democrats are pretty much resigned now
Speaker 2: to a second Trump term because what happened in Pennsylvania
Speaker 2: Saturday night local time has changed the race and made it,
Speaker 2: at least for the moment, all but irrecoverable.
Speaker 1: For the left.
Speaker 2: Things can change, but that's where we are. Kamala Harris,
Speaker 2: who may have been calculating behind the scenes now she
Speaker 2: in no way wants to be anywhere near the top
Speaker 2: of a ticket that is likely to hit the wall
Speaker 2: in November. And Democrat power brokers, well, just put yourself
Speaker 2: in their position for a second. Do you think they
Speaker 2: have any appetite for sticking a black woman on the
Speaker 2: ballot and having her lose forty five states in a landslide?
Speaker 1: Absolutely not.
Speaker 2: Now let's get to the next issue here point two,
Speaker 2: the Secret Service and just how this whole event could
Speaker 2: have happened. And I gotta say I have the greatest
Speaker 2: respect for the agents who work for the Secret Service
Speaker 2: and pledged to put their bodies on the line to
Speaker 2: protect elected officials and candidates and former presidents and other individuals.
Speaker 2: But as with so many other things these days, well
Speaker 2: when it comes to the management, that's another story. The
Speaker 2: Secret Service held a bizarre press conference earlier today in
Speaker 2: which they didn't take any questions about the attempt on
Speaker 2: Donald Trump's life, but instead just talked a whole bunch
Speaker 2: about how it's all good. They don't need to chase
Speaker 2: their plans at all going into the Republican National Convention
Speaker 2: this week in Milwaukee. Secret Service officials went around and
Speaker 2: around with reporters on how they planned to secure the
Speaker 2: convention site, but the answer was always to say, what
Speaker 2: happened this weekend, they said, isn't changing anything.
Speaker 5: I'm the RNSCUP.
Speaker 6: Coordinator, so I can only speak to the national Special
Speaker 6: Security event. The plans that we have in place will
Speaker 6: continue as it is, and we're confident in those plans.
Speaker 1: And there was also this bizarre moment.
Speaker 7: Currently, there are no known articulated threats against the RNC
Speaker 7: or anyway visiting the rn state. That's important because we
Speaker 7: also need to help the public if they see something
Speaker 7: during this time, or I feel uncomfortable with something, Please
Speaker 7: let us know, let your local law enforcement agencies know,
Speaker 7: or the FBI.
Speaker 5: I want to hit or call the FBI?
Speaker 1: Did he just do?
Speaker 2: A guy from the Secret Service? Just do the old
Speaker 2: if you see something, say something routine. I'm sorry, but
Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania, weren't there a bunch of people saying they
Speaker 2: saw something and they were ignored? And we also know
Speaker 2: that other people talk to law enforcement said there's a
Speaker 2: guy up there and nothing was done. Appears Now, look,
Speaker 2: we're going into this convention and I feel like we
Speaker 2: still don't have a lot of answers to key questions
Speaker 2: about what happened, Like how did some random who lived
Speaker 2: an hour away from the speech site decide with about
Speaker 2: a week's notice that he was going to go and
Speaker 2: take a shot at Donald Trump? How did the shooter
Speaker 2: get up onto that roof? Why wasn't that roof secure?
Speaker 2: What happened between Secret Service and I think this is
Speaker 2: absolutely key. What happened between Secret Service and and the
Speaker 2: local law enforcement that was supporting them. That meant there
Speaker 2: was no communication between one another about that threat. Why
Speaker 2: did it take so long to respond? I'm not the
Speaker 2: only one with questions listened to this year from NBC News.
Speaker 8: A senior Secret Service source familiar with the planning of
Speaker 8: yesterday's event tells NBC News that the roof where the
Speaker 8: shooter was located was a well known, high priority vulnerability.
Speaker 8: It was identified just the day before during a security walkthrough.
Speaker 8: We've also just learned that there were two counter sniper
Speaker 8: teams on site and that the counter sniper did not
Speaker 8: need approval to shoot, one source telling NBC News that
Speaker 8: prior protocols were not followed.
Speaker 2: Yet the sniper's only return fire after that would be
Speaker 2: assassin squeezed his trigger. What happened here look between when
Speaker 2: it comes to the question of is it a stuff
Speaker 2: up or a conspiracy? I think generally the stuff up
Speaker 2: wins nine times out of ten. But it also looks
Speaker 2: like the same war on competence that has damaged so
Speaker 2: many other institutions, both private and public, has also opened
Speaker 2: a front within the Secret Service. We need to know
Speaker 2: why and what the effects of that are. Now, finally,
Speaker 2: let's go to Joe Biden. Joe Biden spoke today from
Speaker 2: the Oval Office, and he tried to pull the United
Speaker 2: States together.
Speaker 9: We Kenna, we must not go down this road in America.
Speaker 9: We've traveled before throughout our history. Violence has never been
Speaker 9: the answer, whether it's with members of Congress and both
Speaker 9: parties being targeted in a shot, or a violent mob
Speaker 9: attacking the Capitol on January sixth, or brutal attack on
Speaker 9: a spouse a former Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi,
Speaker 9: information and intimidation on election officials, or the kidnapping plot
Speaker 9: against the city governor. We're an attempted assassination on Donald Trump.
Speaker 9: There's no place in America of this kind of violence,
Speaker 9: for any violence ever, period, no exceptions. We can't allow
Speaker 9: this violence to be normalized. You know, the political record
Speaker 9: of this country has gotten very heated. It's time to
Speaker 9: cool it down. We all have a responsibility to do that.
Speaker 2: Look, did you notice something about what he did there?
Speaker 2: He basically talked all about bad behavior by the right,
Speaker 2: and of course that should be condemned, But the only
Speaker 2: thing from the left that he talked about was this
Speaker 2: assassination attempt on Donald Trump. There's so many other things
Speaker 2: we could talk about, and it's great what he's trying
Speaker 2: to say here, but the fact is, Joe Biden and
Speaker 2: the Democrats have repeatedly done everything they could do to
Speaker 2: turn up the temperature, to dial up the rhetoric. Let's
Speaker 2: not forget that Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, all the rest
Speaker 2: of the senior Democrats right on down the line have
Speaker 2: done so much to dial up America's rhetorical thermostat that
Speaker 2: Biden's sudden call for unity suddenly looks suspiciously like a
Speaker 2: jailhouse conversion. Democrats have based their entire twenty twenty four campaign,
Speaker 2: in fact, really their entire reason for being on this
Speaker 2: idea that Donald Trump is some sort of unique and
Speaker 2: scary threat to American democracy. Who if he's elected, the
Speaker 2: whole thing is over, Which is why I think it
Speaker 2: is so wild seeing them all send their best wishes
Speaker 2: to a man. Just last week they were calling a
Speaker 2: new American Hitler. This is a great problem for the Democrats.
Speaker 2: Any attempt, any attempt they have, any attempt they make
Speaker 2: to where the temperature takes away from their very reason
Speaker 2: for being. They're all out of other ideas. So the
Speaker 2: big question then for the Democrats, what what on earth
Speaker 2: do they campaign on? I guess we're gonna find out
Speaker 2: soon enough now to unpack this and much more, I
Speaker 2: want to bring in before we get in the panel,
Speaker 2: one of my favorite people and my favorite guests, Deputy
Speaker 2: opinionator of Newsweek magazine, Batia Angar Sargan. So much to
Speaker 2: talk about, Basia, Welcome to Palmriray Live. Now let's talk
Speaker 2: about this here. What's been going on in the last
Speaker 2: twenty four to thirty six hours. Joe Biden now count
Speaker 2: campaign on the Trump is Hitler idea and his opponent
Speaker 2: has just been the victim of political violence of the
Speaker 2: worst sort. So what do the Democrats now have to
Speaker 2: campaign on? You tell me?
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me, James. It's great
Speaker 4: to be here with you and your viewers. It's a
Speaker 4: really good question. Can I tell you what I've been
Speaker 4: struggling with personally over the last forty eight hours. I'm
Speaker 4: struggling with on the one hand, doing what I personally
Speaker 4: can do to lower the temperature and speak in a
Speaker 4: way that people who disagree with me politically can hear it,
Speaker 4: even perhaps at the expense of the sharpness of my
Speaker 4: analysis because it is critical of them. And then on
Speaker 4: the other hand, telling the truth, James, And the truth
Speaker 4: is this, there are two sides in America. One of
Speaker 4: them is heavily armed, and the other side routinely engages
Speaker 4: in political violence. Okay, that is the truth here. It's
Speaker 4: that the vast majority of political violence in America is
Speaker 4: coming from the left, even though the right is heavily
Speaker 4: armed thanks to the Second Amendment. Meaning they go out
Speaker 4: there on the left and they call their political opponents
Speaker 4: politically violent and a threat to democracy, while relying on
Speaker 4: the forbearance of their heavily armed neighbor to not actually
Speaker 4: engage in political violence. That is the really disgusting thing
Speaker 4: that is happening here. When President Biden goes out there
Speaker 4: and blames all political violence on the right, he knows
Speaker 4: that they will not retaliate. They know that despite an
Speaker 4: attempt on Donald Trump's life, there will not be a
Speaker 4: single riot. Nobody picked up arms. Nobody on the right
Speaker 4: actually wants to see this country devolve into civil war
Speaker 4: because they love this country by and large. And that
Speaker 4: is the real discussing thing here, is not just the
Speaker 4: mendacity and the lying, but the absolute projection of their
Speaker 4: own political crimes onto a side that actually could do
Speaker 4: far more damage due to the Second Amendment, and yet
Speaker 4: doesn't because of their love of this country.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing. Watchia.
Speaker 2: I was watching that speech live earlier today, and you know,
Speaker 2: I'm listening to Joe Biden list this sort of laundry
Speaker 2: list of things, and I'm keep on waiting and thinking,
Speaker 2: you know, where's the mention of the riots in twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: where's Antifa? Where's the attempt to kidnap and do god
Speaker 2: knows what to justice Bread Kavanaugh? A million other sorts
Speaker 2: of things. And yet you know, there was absolutely nothing there.
Speaker 2: But I would say, beyond the violence, patcha, I'd love
Speaker 2: your thoughts on this, there's also that kind of legal
Speaker 2: delegitimization that they do. You know, from the start of
Speaker 2: the Trump presidency it has been all about trying to
Speaker 2: delegitimize him through a bogus Russia hoax and the Steele dossier,
Speaker 2: when the Hunter Biden laptop came out, where they lied
Speaker 2: and they got intelligence agents to lie about it. And
Speaker 2: yet all of this stuff is legal. And yet that
Speaker 2: seems to me to be really sinisterly undermining elections and
Speaker 2: in fact, undermining democracy one hundred percent.
Speaker 4: When you have control of the vast majority of American institutions,
Speaker 4: you can enact state violence against individuals through the court system,
Speaker 4: right through jail, through the criminal justice system, through all
Speaker 4: sorts of institutions that are no longer treating Americans equally
Speaker 4: based on their political values. And of course, the media
Speaker 4: does not enact physical violence on people, but it has
Speaker 4: developed this narrative around Donald Trump, which is totally false,
Speaker 4: totally invented, totally made up, that he's a threat to democracy,
Speaker 4: as you say, because they have nothing else to run on,
Speaker 4: and in so doing, they have hidden from the American
Speaker 4: people the truth that you have allowed me to say
Speaker 4: on this show repeatedly, which is that Donald Trump is
Speaker 4: a unity candidate. When you look at the policies, these
Speaker 4: are things that are extremely popular with the vast majority
Speaker 4: of Americans. I do hope that he will talk about
Speaker 4: that at the R and C. It's great to hear
Speaker 4: that he's going to focus on unity in his speech.
Speaker 4: But in telling a false story about America and convincing
Speaker 4: millions of Americans that this man is a threat to them,
Speaker 4: the media has done something akin to violence.
Speaker 2: So let's throw forward there. Let's assume that the polls
Speaker 2: are correct, donald Trump wins a second term. Let's assume
Speaker 2: that you know that Axios report today that the Democrats
Speaker 2: are in despair that they're going to lose and they're
Speaker 2: going to have another second term of Trump comes up.
Speaker 2: Do you expect that a the Democrats will take their
Speaker 2: medicine and go back and say, hey, let's get back
Speaker 2: to working for you know, working people, which we used
Speaker 2: to be the party of fifty years ago. Or do
Speaker 2: you expect that they're going to try and use the
Speaker 2: courts and the bureaucracy and their friends of the media
Speaker 2: to simply undermine a second Trump administration.
Speaker 4: I actually do think the election is going to be
Speaker 4: closer than the polling is showing today. So it was
Speaker 4: sort of post assassination attempt. Is the bump is going
Speaker 4: to dissipate a lot of people, especially in the top
Speaker 4: twenty percent, really really really don't like Trump, and those
Speaker 4: people show up to vote, and so I do think
Speaker 4: that it'll be closer than you know, I don't think
Speaker 4: people should take their foot off the pedal, despite what
Speaker 4: I consider to be the very pop popular name nature
Speaker 4: of Trump's agenda. You know, honestly, James, what seems to
Speaker 4: me more likely is that Trump will win and then
Speaker 4: the Republicans will do everything they can to go back
Speaker 4: to the pre Trump RNC Nikki Haley Ron the Santas
Speaker 4: version of the party, and then the Democrats will become
Speaker 4: competitive again. That's probably what's going to happen.
Speaker 2: So we'll get Romney back in twenty twenty eight. But Batcha,
Speaker 2: let me just ask you finally. One of the things
Speaker 2: I've been really struck by is how, you know, for
Speaker 2: so long, you know, people on the right have been
Speaker 2: being accused of conspiracy theorists. Yet I spend time on
Speaker 2: x or Twitter, and probably bit too much time on
Speaker 2: x or Twitter end up, and it seems like the
Speaker 2: left is now completely consumed by all of these wack
Speaker 2: adoodal conspiracy theories that like, oh, you know, Donald Trump
Speaker 2: states this and had some twenty year old shoot at
Speaker 2: him so you get a good photo at all of this.
Speaker 2: I mean, do you think that this paranoid style has
Speaker 2: just overtaken the left of America?
Speaker 8: Now?
Speaker 4: I think people descend into conspiracy theories when they don't
Speaker 4: want to admit the truth. Anybody seriously consider that should
Speaker 4: go and read Malania Trump's letter. It is obvious that
Speaker 4: this is a woman. I mean, to me, it seems
Speaker 4: obvious that this is a woman who begged her husband
Speaker 4: to drop out of the race so that his son
Speaker 4: won't have to grow up without a father. This is
Speaker 4: a real family we're talking about. It's obvious that she
Speaker 4: the pain in her letter at watching her husband almost
Speaker 4: be taken from her was so real. People should really
Speaker 4: go read it. She calls for unity, and honestly, James,
Speaker 4: we're going to keep hearing about how Trump is calling
Speaker 4: for revenge and blah blah blah from the mendacious media.
Speaker 4: He has only called for unity. His camp has only
Speaker 4: called for unity. His wife has called for unity. They
Speaker 4: have called for love and respect for our fellow Americans,
Speaker 4: as opposed to the left, which keeps talking about unity
Speaker 4: but will not take any responsibility for what happened. And
Speaker 4: so keep an eye on that, and your viewers should
Speaker 4: keep watching people like you, James, who tell the truth.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Bascha. And you know when you
Speaker 2: were talking about you know that letter and said this
Speaker 2: is a woman, I thought, well, the Left can't even
Speaker 2: tell you what a woman is. And I think that's
Speaker 2: the difference between the two sides here. Thank you so
Speaker 2: much for your time. We'll catch up again soon. Now
Speaker 2: it's time to bring in your favorite Monday panel, Sky
Speaker 2: News contributor Sam Crosby and National Senator Matt Canavan. Thank
Speaker 2: you both, gentlemen for joining me. Let's keep on the
Speaker 2: big story this assassination attempt the Prime Minister came down.
Speaker 2: I thought really hard on all of this and the
Speaker 2: attack in a press conferences.
Speaker 1: Actually, let's have a look at that.
Speaker 10: This was an inexcusable attack on the democratic value that
Speaker 10: Australians an American share and the freedom that we treasure
Speaker 10: these values once that you're not to countries.
Speaker 2: You know, Sam, I actually thought that the Prime Minister
Speaker 2: was far more articulate than Joe Biden was in all
Speaker 2: of that, And I thought that his words and just
Speaker 2: talking about the special nature of Australian politics and he's
Speaker 2: able to go to the shops and go to a
Speaker 2: gig and whatever and not be surrounded by this bubble
Speaker 2: was really I think special. But you know, at the
Speaker 2: same time, and he made some really good points about that.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, this is the same guy
Speaker 2: who's let his electorate office down in Marrickville be closed
Speaker 2: for months by Palestinian protesters. Is there a sort of
Speaker 2: a dichartomy here between the fire words he has said
Speaker 2: and kind of how he's acting in letting some of
Speaker 2: these protests that are affecting our political life keep on running.
Speaker 11: Look, it's a it's a fair point. I'm not sure
Speaker 11: what the answer is and whether or not you necessarily
Speaker 11: want to send the AFP in to move the protesters on.
Speaker 11: But I thought his message around lowering the temperature of
Speaker 11: the political debate was a really powerful one and a
Speaker 11: really good one.
Speaker 1: And I won't lie.
Speaker 11: I certainly thought about my own role on this show,
Speaker 11: you know, having a fullsome conversations with, among others, Senator
Speaker 11: Matt Canavan. You know, perhaps maybe I should have a
Speaker 11: bit of a reflection as I think we all should
Speaker 11: about the role as political as the role that political
Speaker 11: commentators that we all play, and you know, to the
Speaker 11: extent that we are all palpable in elevating the political
Speaker 11: temperature in Australia.
Speaker 2: Well, I think I think Sam, we all elevate the
Speaker 2: debate here in Australia here on programs like this, and
Speaker 2: I hope that's what we do. But Matt Canavan and
Speaker 2: I kind of wish we're all here to have a
Speaker 2: big kind of bipart of the group, hug. But Matt,
Speaker 2: you know, let me ask you your thoughts on the
Speaker 2: Prime Minister's remarks. I thought, again, I thought that they
Speaker 2: were very good and articulated, reasonable remarks. But is there
Speaker 2: also a danger that in all of this talk of
Speaker 2: lowering the temperature, that that could be used I guess
Speaker 2: by some in the media or others to start to,
Speaker 2: you know, police the bounds of what it's acceptable to
Speaker 2: talk about.
Speaker 1: Where do we draw that fine line, Matt Canavan.
Speaker 12: Well, well, there is a lot and look, yes, you're right,
Speaker 12: I thought the minister's words were entirely appropriate and well made.
Speaker 12: I don't think it's that much of a fine lin.
Speaker 12: I certainly don't have any complaints with you, Sam, and
Speaker 12: I support a robust political debate. We should be willing
Speaker 12: to go into a battle of ideas. The focus should
Speaker 12: always be on the ideas, not the person. I suppose
Speaker 12: summed up in the old saying that you should play
Speaker 12: the ball, not the man. And I think fortunately in
Speaker 12: Australian politics we don't see too much of that. Sometimes,
Speaker 12: of course it can go a little bit hard, but
Speaker 12: it's pretty clean. Whereas you see what's been going on
Speaker 12: in the US, and I've been warning about this for years,
Speaker 12: the increasing your weaponization of their judicial system to go
Speaker 12: after individuals, the ridiculous comparisons of people to fascist dictators.
Speaker 5: All of this sort of.
Speaker 12: Language has led to this environment of the United States, which
Speaker 12: look thankfully, I don't think is reflected.
Speaker 5: Here largely in our political dialogue.
Speaker 12: Seeing pockets of it, though, with the likes of the
Speaker 12: pro Hamas protesters. It's disgraceful and I don't blame the
Speaker 12: Prime Minister for that. It's a very difficult issue to
Speaker 12: deal with, but we've got to make sure we do
Speaker 12: not go down this US path of weaponization of judicial systems,
Speaker 12: the politics of personal destruction. It's very corrosive to the society,
Speaker 12: to the politic and let's hope we can't carve our
Speaker 12: own Australian way here while we're being robust but also
Speaker 12: being able to have a beer after the TV cameras
Speaker 12: turned off and we can all have a laugh afterwards.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's exactly right. But I mean, Sam and
Speaker 2: I know we're talking a lot about American politics, but
Speaker 2: this has such huge implications I think for absolutely everything
Speaker 2: that's going to happen in America. What happens in America
Speaker 2: always winds up washing up one way or the other
Speaker 2: here on our shores. What I was talking to my
Speaker 2: previous guest about this, the Democrats have now pulled their ads.
Speaker 2: They don't want to be seen to be sort of
Speaker 2: in bad taste capitalizing on all of the sort of
Speaker 2: the events of the last twenty four hours. But at
Speaker 2: the same time, you know, you do have to wonder
Speaker 2: if the Democrats who've campaigned I'd love to ask your
Speaker 2: opinion on this step, what you think, where do they
Speaker 2: go in terms of their messaging when so much of
Speaker 2: their headline messaging has just been vote Democrat, Trump is hitler.
Speaker 2: How do they how do they come up, you know,
Speaker 2: with a more positive messages of that.
Speaker 11: Well, I think you're absolutely right, and I think this
Speaker 11: is one of the many reasons that the Democrats are
Speaker 11: in a little bit of a crotch right now. They
Speaker 11: don't quite know where to go. I think Trump's messaging
Speaker 11: about his speech coming up is interesting, talking about He's
Speaker 11: going to bring the country together. I think the real
Speaker 11: opportunity here is here now for him not just to
Speaker 11: capture his base and energize his base. That's done. They're
Speaker 11: going to be at the polls in their droves. I
Speaker 11: think there is a chance here for him to capture Independence,
Speaker 11: which up until yesterday I didn't think was possible. You know,
Speaker 11: the Independence would either stay away or vote Democrat. After
Speaker 11: I think the sympathy and the outpouring of sympathy for
Speaker 11: President Trump, I think the Independents are genuinely up for grabs.
Speaker 11: So you're absolutely right. I don't have an answer for
Speaker 11: the Democrats about what they do with their with their message.
Speaker 11: You know, the economy is roaring along in America, so
Speaker 11: I think because it's running on these well exactly that
Speaker 11: that was going to be my point for because it's
Speaker 11: such a polarized, two speed economy. If you're part of
Speaker 11: the very lucky groups who have white collar, tech based jobs, yeah,
Speaker 11: your stop portfolio is zooming ahead. If you're part of
Speaker 11: the you know, the great unwashed, the rest of us,
Speaker 11: you know, and the eighty percent of the country, you're
Speaker 11: not experiencing those those games of the s and P
Speaker 11: five hundred and every other measure that economically in the
Speaker 11: past has been such if predictors of us returning presidents.
Speaker 2: And I mean, look, that's the same situation here. You know,
Speaker 2: if you've got shares you've got investment properties, you're laughing.
Speaker 2: But if you're just you know, a wage earner, you're
Speaker 2: moving backwards. And we've seen that under the Albanesa government.
Speaker 2: But Matt, what do you think though, Matt can of
Speaker 2: it because once you start to dig underneath that message
Speaker 2: Trump is evil, you know, he's the next Hitler, And
Speaker 2: saw how much of that distracted for the fact that
Speaker 2: actually their real policies are really really unpopular because they're
Speaker 2: about you know, the green energy stuff that makes everybody's
Speaker 2: power more expensive. They've got to buy an ev and
Speaker 2: they can't do the things they want to do. It's
Speaker 2: about you know, open borders, especially on the southern border,
Speaker 2: which means you know a lot of chaos, dysfunction in
Speaker 2: the city's crime comes along with it, and of course
Speaker 2: depressing wages. So how much of what we've seen over
Speaker 2: the last few years out of the Democrats is really
Speaker 2: just a where to kind of you know, as Paul
Speaker 2: always says, it's a magician's distraction trick. You know, don't
Speaker 2: look over here what we're doing, look over here at
Speaker 2: how we will Trump is.
Speaker 1: Look.
Speaker 5: I think you're right.
Speaker 12: I think the Democrats will have to jettison that over
Speaker 12: the top rhetoric now in light of these tragic events,
Speaker 12: in some senses, it may be a blessing for them,
Speaker 12: because I don't think that that sort of microwave to
Speaker 12: scare campaign from the Russia hoax days is doing that much.
Speaker 12: It's not very effective, So maybe it's opportunity for them,
Speaker 12: But I agree with you, it's probably where do they go?
Speaker 5: And they seem a bit shell shocked right now.
Speaker 12: But look, I also think the other thing that you
Speaker 12: haven't said here, and probably the thing that might trump
Speaker 12: if you like, excuse the pun response from the Democrats
Speaker 12: is the so to speak, is the response of Donald
Speaker 12: Trump himself. I mean, the Prime Minister was right that
Speaker 12: it was an attack on democracy, but it was an
Speaker 12: attack ultimately repelled by the defiance, the resilient ins and
Speaker 12: bravery of Donald Trump. I mean, everybody saw that, and
Speaker 12: pretty much everybody except you most died in the world
Speaker 12: activist democrat is very impressed with how a man who
Speaker 12: had just been shot immediately gets up and shows that
Speaker 12: level of defiance and that's leadership. It's just right there
Speaker 12: on your TV screen and he's running for the leader
Speaker 12: of the free world world and he's just put in
Speaker 12: one of the best job in devies you ever could
Speaker 12: For that, he's shown real leadership.
Speaker 2: And I mean, look, if you're if you're a g
Speaker 2: or you're putin or somebody like that, and you look
Speaker 2: at Donald Trump's performance, and you look at you know,
Speaker 2: how Joe Biden is going. I think you know he'd
Speaker 2: rather on the other end of the red phone. But
Speaker 2: let's move domestically here, because we have had some big
Speaker 2: domestic news here today. Treasurer Jim Chalmers is now talking
Speaker 2: up a big budget surplus. He's saying that this twenty
Speaker 2: twenty three, twenty four foot after your surplus is going
Speaker 2: to be what he says, in the mid teens. Now, Sam,
Speaker 2: this seems very convenient. Is this part of their setup
Speaker 2: for early elections?
Speaker 11: I wouldn't have any idea about that, But I got
Speaker 11: to tell you, I am completely torn on which way
Speaker 11: they should go here. On the one hand, I am
Speaker 11: very much in favor of running up a massive surplus
Speaker 11: and trying to constrain monetary policy as much as possible
Speaker 11: so that interest rates will come down. Putting that money
Speaker 11: into the economy will only put more and more pressure
Speaker 11: on the Reserve Bank to increase interest rates, which is
Speaker 11: incredibly hard on people that simply can't afford increase in
Speaker 11: interest rates. That said, I work every day for charity
Speaker 11: for Vinnie's that sees some of the poorest and most
Speaker 11: marginalized people in society. And so when I hear that
Speaker 11: the federal government is sitting there with billions of dollars
Speaker 11: in unaccounted for revenue, I see the faces of people
Speaker 11: that we can only help minorly every day, and we
Speaker 11: can't help the extent that we need to. And I think, Wow,
Speaker 11: give some of that to the charitable sector, you know,
Speaker 11: we could do some real good with it.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but also maybe give it back to some
Speaker 2: of us who have been hugely overtached and stung with
Speaker 2: bracket creep every year for the past god and se
Speaker 2: many years. But Matt Canavan, let me just ask you
Speaker 2: about this really quickly.
Speaker 1: So much of this.
Speaker 2: Surplus, it's based on the thing that Leber cleaves to Hey, coal,
Speaker 2: isn't it.
Speaker 5: It's a big reason.
Speaker 12: It's a big reason the strength of our resources sector
Speaker 12: has been getting us through these last few years. And effectively,
Speaker 12: the whole government's narrative about their budget approach is built
Speaker 12: off the back of the mining industry, of coal, of ironylre,
Speaker 12: of oil and gas as well. It's not their decisions
Speaker 12: that have delivered these surpluses. In fact, when you drill
Speaker 12: into the budget and go to the table of truth
Speaker 12: as it's become known on about page ninety of the budget,
Speaker 12: shows that this government has spent more than any government
Speaker 12: over the past in this century, in fact, than two
Speaker 12: other examples during COVID of course that was special and Kevin.
Speaker 5: Rudd during the global financial crisis.
Speaker 12: They trump every other government in terms of spending beyond that,
Speaker 12: and they've done that during an inflation.
Speaker 5: Crisis that has fueled that inflation crisis.
Speaker 12: And paradoxically enough, another reason for these boosted unexpected tax
Speaker 12: revenues is that very thing, is it inflation. Inflation is
Speaker 12: very good for governments because, as you alluded to in
Speaker 12: the question, James, it pushes people up into high tax brackets.
Speaker 12: You end up paying more in taxes and the government
Speaker 12: gets more from you. So this is not good news
Speaker 12: for the Australian public. We've got to get spending under control.
Speaker 12: Sam's first instinct is right there. I recognize his compassion,
Speaker 12: the good work he does with Saint Vincent's there, but
Speaker 12: we have to get spending out of control to help
Speaker 12: all Australian struggling with the cost of living.
Speaker 2: I'm loving this, lowering the temperature love and here we're
Speaker 2: having it that. You're absolutely right here. Thank you guys
Speaker 2: so much for your time back Canavan, Sam Crosby, thanks
Speaker 2: and Matt you are absolutely right. We will never get
Speaker 2: inflation under control if we do not do something about
Speaker 2: this fire hose of government spending. Now, don't go anywhere
Speaker 2: after the break, A lot more fun coming up. Stick
Speaker 2: with us here, Christian Abraham and Graham Lloyd will continue
Speaker 2: to break down the historic Trump rally shooting. Do not
Speaker 2: go anywhere Paul Murray Live after the break. Welcome back
Speaker 2: to the program. James Borrow. Sorry here filling in for
Speaker 2: Paul on Paul Murray Live. Let's continue our debate, and
Speaker 2: joining me now is libertarian commentator Christian Abraham and associate
Speaker 2: editor at The Australian Graham Lloyd. Welcome to both of you. Now, guys,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry we got to just keep talking about this
Speaker 2: crazy stuff that's been happening in the last thirty six hours.
Speaker 2: Thank god President Trump is all right, but there's so
Speaker 2: mu much fallout coming out around this. A former staffer,
Speaker 2: a Democrat, sorry, a current Democratic staffer for a Democratic
Speaker 2: congresswoman has gotten into an awful lot of trouble for
Speaker 2: her controversial comments saying that she hoped the shooter who
Speaker 2: targeted Donald Trump quote wouldn't miss next time.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: This is Jacqueline Marsaw is her name. She put this
Speaker 2: on Facebook saying I don't condone violence, but please get
Speaker 2: you some shooting lessons so you don't miss next time. Oops,
Speaker 2: that wasn't me talking, now, Graham. I've been seeing not
Speaker 2: just her, I've been seeing this from an awful lot
Speaker 2: of people, academics, government staffers, people who should really know better.
Speaker 2: What is with this real bitter vitriol at a time
Speaker 2: when Joe Biden and everybody is telling us to lower
Speaker 2: the temperature.
Speaker 13: Well, it goes to show the extent to which the
Speaker 13: people are divorced from the reality of what they're talking
Speaker 13: about it in the public square.
Speaker 1: The thoughts are just abhorrent.
Speaker 13: And the fact that someone would put their name to
Speaker 13: it and put it out into the public really shows
Speaker 13: the extent to which there's been a dehumanizing of political opponents.
Speaker 13: And I think the important thing there is Joe Biden
Speaker 13: and Millenia Trump and others. They've all come forward and
Speaker 13: they've spoken about Donald Trump the person rather than the politician,
Speaker 13: and his sort of likes and hobbies outside of politics,
Speaker 13: calling him Donald and I think that's what's been sacrificed
Speaker 13: in the way politics has been conducted, and that leads
Speaker 13: to people thinking it's fine to make these sort of tweets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Christian, I'd love to hear what you think
Speaker 2: about this too, because you know, we have a sort
Speaker 2: of situation where people's speech is getting them into real trouble.
Speaker 2: But you know, where do you fall on the free
Speaker 2: speech line. I mean that people can say offensive things,
Speaker 2: but then if they get called out on it, and
Speaker 2: there may be some circumstances where people could you know,
Speaker 2: wind up being canceled on the left, where for years
Speaker 2: now we've been hearing about people being canceled on the rights.
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts, Kristen.
Speaker 14: Well, when you have association with an employer or a
Speaker 14: political party, you have the there is the ability for
Speaker 14: them to sanction you of some sort for saying those
Speaker 14: kind of things. And apparently she is no longer a
Speaker 14: staffer with the Democrats anymore because of that. And that
Speaker 14: is your writer's free speech. You can say what you
Speaker 14: would like to say, but there is also repercussions that
Speaker 14: comes from you saying those things. So who needs international
Speaker 14: enemies when you have everyday citizens in America like that?
Speaker 14: And I remember when Donald when Donald Trump got elected,
Speaker 14: my partner, which was a Trump fan, which I was not,
Speaker 14: he told me that Trump could elected and I said,
Speaker 14: don't you think that someone is going to make ans
Speaker 14: have an assassination attempt on Donald Trump? And that just
Speaker 14: kind of goes to show where the American politics is
Speaker 14: at that that is such a common discourse in today's
Speaker 14: society that don't you think someone would try to assassinate
Speaker 14: Donald Trump? And it's sad. It's sad that our politics
Speaker 14: has gotten to that point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think look, that was the thing
Speaker 2: that when everything when all those events unfolded thirty six
Speaker 2: or so hours ago, that people, you know, were shocked.
Speaker 2: But I think an awful lot of people said, you know,
Speaker 2: given the way people speak about this, and you know,
Speaker 2: from Joe Biden on down speak about Donald Trump, is
Speaker 2: anybody actually surprised that this sort of thing would have
Speaker 2: happened but let's stay in the US. And one of
Speaker 2: the things that I think is really interesting is here
Speaker 2: what is going to happen at this convention? And the
Speaker 2: Secret Service has gone and said they're not planning on
Speaker 2: making any changes to the security arrangements for the convention.
Speaker 1: Have look at this.
Speaker 6: We are confident in these security plans that are in
Speaker 6: place for this event, and we're ready to go. It's
Speaker 6: been an eighteen month process. It's the we've worked together
Speaker 6: over that eighteen months to develop operational security plans for
Speaker 6: any and all assets of security related to this event.
Speaker 1: Graham.
Speaker 2: They seem awfully confident for a bureaucracy and law enforcement
Speaker 2: agency that just had a near miss with the absolute
Speaker 2: worst tragedy that can you know, befall them, which would
Speaker 2: be the loss of somebody that they're protecting. Are they
Speaker 2: being a bit overconfident? And what do you make of
Speaker 2: some of the reports that the Secret Service has become
Speaker 2: too obsessed with diversity goals and things like this, and
Speaker 2: it's bureaucracy rather than you know, its endgame of which is,
Speaker 2: you know, in this case, to protect individuals who are
Speaker 2: connected with the US government.
Speaker 13: Well, certainly the attention has swung immediately to the Sacred
Speaker 13: Service and whether they've watch this or how it has
Speaker 13: been botched, and of course institutionally they have to say no, Look,
Speaker 13: we're very good at what we do, and we have
Speaker 13: all the right plans, and everything we were planning to
Speaker 13: do at the convention stays in place and it will
Speaker 13: all be safe. But as the investigation goes into what
Speaker 13: happened with the shooting incident, we're going to I think
Speaker 13: get a real insight into what's happened there to the
Speaker 13: chain of command, the capacity to protect and other things.
Speaker 13: Because from the videos that I saw from the Wall
Speaker 13: Street Journal and other places, they certainly had guns trained
Speaker 13: on this shooter before he started firing, and there was
Speaker 13: raised earlier in the program that the protocol is to
Speaker 13: shoot without approval. Well, that certainly didn't happen. We need
Speaker 13: to know what's who's making the decisions here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Christ what are your thoughts on what we've seen
Speaker 2: and particularly the government and the bureaucratic response. In One
Speaker 2: thing that I've heard is that there's this sort of
Speaker 2: link between the Secret Service and Homeland Security and local
Speaker 2: law enforcement, and apparently nobody was talking to each other,
Speaker 2: and you had a lot of people who weren't really
Speaker 2: trained for this kind of work doing this. I mean,
Speaker 2: where do you think the investigation is going to wind
Speaker 2: up leading us here?
Speaker 14: Like all big investigations, I don't think it's going to
Speaker 14: end up leading anywhere that gives the American people all
Speaker 14: the world answers. There are two kinds of people with
Speaker 14: work ethic out there. There are the people that turn
Speaker 14: around and go, look, I'm going to go through everything
Speaker 14: with a fine tooth comb and we have diligently work
Speaker 14: through making sure that we haven't made another mistake like
Speaker 14: we did previously. And then there's the people that go, well,
Speaker 14: you know, she'll be right, And it's either arrogance or
Speaker 14: laziness or content that kind of makes you have that
Speaker 14: perspective or that approach to it. And it is interesting
Speaker 14: how the gunmen could get past the Secret Service at
Speaker 14: that rally. And there's the two ways that I'm looking
Speaker 14: at it is either they went really hard and they
Speaker 14: are absolutely confident because they already had ramped up security
Speaker 14: for this conference, or the alternative is they don't want
Speaker 14: to do their job properly and they don't want to
Speaker 14: ensure that President Trump is protected as much as he can.
Speaker 1: Be well either way.
Speaker 2: I think you know the most important thing here is
Speaker 2: that the government gives us absolutely full transparency on what
Speaker 2: went wrong, who the shooter was, because anything that seems
Speaker 2: like it's a cover up is just going to feel
Speaker 2: more conspiracies and we do not need that now. Christian Graham,
Speaker 2: stick around after the break because we're talking about a
Speaker 2: lot more, including wild staff and accusations involving the CFMU.
Speaker 2: You're not going to want to miss set. Stick around
Speaker 2: more debate after the break. Welcome back to Paul Murray Live.
Speaker 2: James Borrow here in for the great Man. Joining me
Speaker 2: tonight is libertarian commentator Kristin Abraham and The Australians Associate
Speaker 2: editor Graham Lloyd. Both of you thank you so much
Speaker 2: here for being on the panel with me on Palbury Live.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about some domestic politics here, particularly all of
Speaker 2: these wild allegations about the CFMU, Vike's links, alleged links
Speaker 2: between organized crime and the construction division of this union.
Speaker 2: Kristin Abraham, You've got I think some thoughts on this.
Speaker 2: I would love to hear what you have to say.
Speaker 14: Thanks James, and thank you for having me and asking
Speaker 14: this question. I've been waiting a long time to talk
Speaker 14: about the CFMU, so thank you. I want to start
Speaker 14: by saying that Setka, John Satka, bit the hand that
Speaker 14: feeds him and the Labor Party has retaliated because of this.
Speaker 14: And I'll preface what I'm about to say with this
Speaker 14: is my opinion. It's alleged in twenty two that the
Speaker 14: Labor Party made a deal with the CFMEU and John
Speaker 14: Sadka to abolish the abccs so that the CFMEU put
Speaker 14: support behind Anthony Albneasy. Now, the Labor Party is renowned
Speaker 14: for keeping their promises, and sure enough, when they got
Speaker 14: elected they abolished the ABCC the Australian Building and Construction Commission,
Speaker 14: which had been giving the cfme you greef for the
Speaker 14: behavior that they were engaging, and they had taken them
Speaker 14: to court so many times. And the reason why I'm
Speaker 14: telling you this is as a HR professional, as someone
Speaker 14: that specializes in employerer relations and industrial relations, and that
Speaker 14: in my free time I engage heavily in politics.
Speaker 1: I am well.
Speaker 14: Acquainted with the cfmeu's antics that has been ongoing. Setka
Speaker 14: overplayed his hand, though he publicly threatened the AFL had
Speaker 14: umpire and said that he would delay AFL projects because
Speaker 14: that this floke worked at the ABCC. And so now
Speaker 14: this public threat, Labor Party has had nothing but to retaliate.
Speaker 14: And they haven't all of a sudden uncovered all of
Speaker 14: this information. They have always known where the bodies were buried.
Speaker 14: They have always known, or allegedly always known that there
Speaker 14: was this kind of criminal conduct in the Labor Party
Speaker 14: in the cf MEU, but it had served the Labor
Speaker 14: Party's purpose and now it doesn't anymore because these public
Speaker 14: threats have come out and the tail is now wagging
Speaker 14: the dog, and they have bitten back really hard. And
Speaker 14: I'm glad that the Labor Party is biting back really hard,
Speaker 14: because I'll give you an example. In twenty twenty two,
Speaker 14: we had the Victorian state election and the federal election,
Speaker 14: and the CFMU took their workers into the lunch room
Speaker 14: and they said, look, the Labor Party is the reason
Speaker 14: why we get these jobs. They're the reason why we
Speaker 14: get the contracts, and they're the reason why you stay
Speaker 14: employed in civil construction. So you should be voting for
Speaker 14: the Labor Party in twenty twenty two. So that to me,
Speaker 14: is not a union that's a mob.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Look, I mean and it's absolutely you know, these links
Speaker 2: between labor and the CFMU and what the CFMU is
Speaker 2: alleged to do to make the cost of construction and
Speaker 2: everything else so much higher.
Speaker 1: Graym lloyd, Is there a.
Speaker 2: Real problem with the links between the ALP and the CFMU.
Speaker 13: Well, I think there's a real problem to the extent
Speaker 13: that the CFMAU is getting a priority treatment in government
Speaker 13: contracts and the costs of those projects is costing tax
Speaker 13: payers a lot of money. I think to reinforce what
Speaker 13: was just said of John Secker three weeks ago was
Speaker 13: telling the Prime Minister to stay in his lane and
Speaker 13: remember who appoints MPs, and that's the Union, not the government.
Speaker 13: So Tony Burke, as the relevant Minister, has no option
Speaker 13: but to show that the government is in control of this,
Speaker 13: not the union move. But we basically have an organization
Speaker 13: that inflates costs and allegedly has been infiltrated by organized
Speaker 13: crime and violence. It needs to be sorted out.
Speaker 2: Well, indeed, absolutely right now, Look, I want to just
Speaker 2: finish on a late note here. We've been dealing with
Speaker 2: an awful lot of heavy stuff here tonight. It has
Speaker 2: been confirmed that King Charles the Third and Queen Camilla
Speaker 2: are set to visit Australia and Samoa in October. Now
Speaker 2: they're going to come and they're going to be a
Speaker 2: beautiful act and New South Wales.
Speaker 1: Graham.
Speaker 2: It's Charles's first visit to Australia since twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: Are you excited?
Speaker 13: Well?
Speaker 5: Excited?
Speaker 13: It probably isn't the word, James. But it's remarkable, isn't
Speaker 13: it the will of time?
Speaker 1: Charles?
Speaker 13: Now, King Charles has been dismissed, overlooked, reinvented and rehabilitated
Speaker 13: so many times. But I must say he seems now
Speaker 13: to be on a bit of a high. So a
Speaker 13: lot of people want to see.
Speaker 2: I'm ambivalent and Christind Abraham, what do you think there
Speaker 2: seems to be Victoria seems to have missed out in
Speaker 2: the itinerary.
Speaker 1: What do you reckon on that? Real quick?
Speaker 14: Well, I want to take this opportunity to formally invite
Speaker 14: them to Victoria if they're not going to come. As
Speaker 14: a young person, we can kind of feel disconnected from
Speaker 14: the monarchs from time to time. So there is a
Speaker 14: part of our Australia or Victorian history and an institution
Speaker 14: sure revolver upstairs. You're in Victoria, yarakay be great for
Speaker 14: young people.
Speaker 1: If I would love to see you.
Speaker 2: Charles the third ed Cavilla to a revolver, that would
Speaker 2: be absolutely amazing. Guys, thank you so much, Christ and
Speaker 2: Abraham Graham Lloyd, thanks for your time tonight and thank
Speaker 2: you for joining me on Palmurray Live.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned now for the late debate