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Speaker 1: We'd like to acknowledge that traditional custodians of the land

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Speaker 1: on which this podcast was produced the Galligall people of

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Speaker 1: the Urination. We pay our respects to Elda's past and present.

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Speaker 2: We're in London at the twenty twelve Paralympic Games and

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Speaker 2: swimmer Ellie Cole is telling herself she'll only go home

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Speaker 2: a gold medalist. She's focused, determined and ambitious. Not only

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Speaker 2: will she win gold, she'll do it four times over.

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Speaker 2: Ellie Cole another gold medal four years later. She's tipped

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Speaker 2: to be a hot favorite to win another gold at

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Speaker 2: the Rio twenty sixteen Paraalympic Games. The pressure is on

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Speaker 2: Ellie Cole absolutely phenomenal, but Ellie rises to the occasion again,

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Speaker 2: winning medals in all six of her events and smashes.

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Speaker 2: This focus and determination has been with Ellie her whole life.

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Speaker 2: At just three years old, she lost her right leg

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Speaker 2: to a rare cancer. Eight weeks later, her mother took

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Speaker 2: her down to the pool as part of her rehabilitation.

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Speaker 2: Instructors thought it would take her a year to swim

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Speaker 2: in a straight line. It took her just two weeks.

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Speaker 2: I'm at Middleton and this is head game today inside

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Speaker 2: the mindset of Australia's most decorated female Paralympic athlete, Ellie Cole.

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Speaker 2: Thank you ever so much for coming on my podcast

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Speaker 2: head Game. You've got seventeen seventeen medals, is that correct?

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Speaker 2: I have I missed any ow you've got. I'm surprised

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Speaker 2: you're not wearing them. If that was me, I'll be

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Speaker 2: wearing them. But I suppose it'd weigh you down. But

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Speaker 2: before we get into the medals and your amazing accomplishments,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't always an easy journey for you. Quite a

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Speaker 2: hard question, I suppose for yourself, what is your earliest

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Speaker 2: memory as a child.

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Speaker 3: I would say I have this one memory of a

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Speaker 3: child of waking up in my cot actually and I

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Speaker 3: was crying, and I think, on reflecting it was probably

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Speaker 3: to do with the pain in my right leg from

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Speaker 3: my tumor that I was diagnosed with a few months later.

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Speaker 4: But my earliest memory after that was actually in.

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Speaker 3: The rehabilitation ward after I'd just lost my leg and

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Speaker 3: I was learning how to walk again, and there was

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Speaker 3: this giant teddy bear at the end of the hallway

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Speaker 3: and I was always trying.

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Speaker 4: To walk towards this huge teddy Bear.

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Speaker 3: I went back a few years ago, and that giant

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Speaker 3: teddy bear is actually not that giant at all.

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Speaker 4: It's quite a standard sized one.

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Speaker 3: But because I was so small in the grand scheme

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Speaker 3: of things, it seemed huge to me. So I think

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Speaker 3: that's a nice memory to have because it just reminds

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Speaker 3: me of how small I once was.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's fascinating. So you're actual first memory is of

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Speaker 2: pain of waking up because at the age of three,

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Speaker 2: you had a rare cancer and you had your leg amputated.

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Speaker 2: What type of cancer was it, if you don't mind

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Speaker 2: me asking? Also, it was.

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Speaker 3: A neurosacoma, so it would describe the pain because it

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Speaker 3: was a cancer that was wrapped around the sciatic nerve

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Speaker 3: in my leg. And I think anybody that has had

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Speaker 3: ssiatica would know how uncomfortable that is. I've had nerve

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Speaker 3: damage in my leg before once when I break my

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Speaker 3: hip a few years ago, and nerve pain is excruciating.

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Speaker 3: So to have a cancer that is intertwined around a nerve, I'm.

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Speaker 4: Sure would have caused me quite a bit of pain.

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Speaker 3: I'm thankful that I don't have too many memories of

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Speaker 3: that time, but I have been told by my parents

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Speaker 3: that I was waking up. I was a very unsettled baby,

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Speaker 3: and I think that is a pretty just explanation. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was a nerve cancer, which is quite rare.

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Speaker 2: Wow, how did your parents identify that the tumor?

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Speaker 3: There are a few indicators when I was young that

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Speaker 3: something wasn't quite right. So the first one was I

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Speaker 3: was unsettled. The second was I have a twin sister

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Speaker 3: and she was much more developmentally advanced with her walking

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Speaker 3: than I was, so she was walking a lot sooner,

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Speaker 3: and I was scooting around behind her on my bottom

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Speaker 3: trying to keep up. And then the third indicator was

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Speaker 3: my right leg was actually growing at a slower rate

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Speaker 3: to my left because of the limited blood supply. And

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Speaker 3: then the last indicator was the tumor presenting itself. Now,

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Speaker 3: by the time the tumor had presented itself, I was

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Speaker 3: about two and a half years old, and the doctors

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Speaker 3: believe that I was actually born with this cancer, but

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Speaker 3: it wasn't physically presenting as a tumor until about two

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Speaker 3: and a half.

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Speaker 2: And when you went to the hospital it was identified

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Speaker 2: straight away. And what was the decision made straight away

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Speaker 2: to amphisate your leg. How was the decision made, and

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Speaker 2: ultimately it was down to your parents to make it right.

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Speaker 3: It was so amputation is quite a drastic decision to make,

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Speaker 3: and it's usually at a last resort. Back in nineteen

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Speaker 3: ninety four, when my leg was amputated, the prosthetics aren't

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Speaker 3: as advanced as they are now, and so the amputation

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Speaker 3: back then it really did limit your movement because the

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Speaker 3: prosthetics available were also quite limited. So the decision to

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Speaker 3: amputate my leg was made. About a year after my diagnosis,

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Speaker 3: I underwent chemotherapy to try and treat the tumor and

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Speaker 3: it wasn't working. In fact, it was attacking all of

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Speaker 3: my white blood cells more than it was the cancer cells,

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Speaker 3: and so chemotherapy became too dangerous. They took a biopsy

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Speaker 3: of the tumor and tried to take it all out,

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Speaker 3: but it was just growing back and so nothing was effectively.

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Speaker 3: They had exhausted all options and nothing was working, and

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Speaker 3: so at risk of its spreading, they needed to amputate

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Speaker 3: in order to ensure that that spread wasn't going to happen.

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Speaker 3: And since the day that they've amputated, I have been

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Speaker 3: a picture of health. I haven't had one cancer cell

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Speaker 3: in my body, which has been amazing. So they did

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Speaker 3: an incredible job and it was the right decision at

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Speaker 3: that time, though I didn't realize it was going to

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Speaker 3: lead me down this amazing path of becoming a paralympian.

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Speaker 4: I love having a disability.

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Speaker 3: I'm fortunate to have had a lot of amazing experiences,

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Speaker 3: and I know that for people in the general community,

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Speaker 3: some having a disability hasn't been a pleasant experience. But

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Speaker 3: I've been able to use sport as an amazing platform

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Speaker 3: and channel all of that through sports. So I've considered

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Speaker 3: myself quite fortunate in that sense.

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Speaker 2: Because you were so young, do you think that that

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Speaker 2: helped you with your recovery and that helped you for

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Speaker 2: that to almost become the norm that you weren't, you know,

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Speaker 2: with your two legs for you know, your teenage years,

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Speaker 2: and all of a sudden you had your leg amputated.

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Speaker 2: It was done at such a young age. Do you

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Speaker 2: think that helped with the process.

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Speaker 4: I think so.

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Speaker 3: I think that's a fair assumption, and I would be

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Speaker 3: assuming just as much as you are, because I don't

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Speaker 3: know what it's like to have two legs.

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Speaker 4: I don't know any different.

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Speaker 3: So I would see you know able bodied people and

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Speaker 3: be like, WHOA, that is a lot of limbs to

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Speaker 3: have to navigate.

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Speaker 4: I feel like it. You must feel like an octopus.

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Speaker 3: For me, having one is so normal to me that

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Speaker 3: I don't know any differently, and I think that that

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Speaker 3: has certainly helped with acceptance. The thing that I've still

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Speaker 3: had to navigate despite accepting at myself is people's perception

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Speaker 3: of what I'm able to do and my capabilities. And

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Speaker 3: that's a really deep rooted stigma and that we have

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Speaker 3: in our society That's happened for centuries and centuries around disability.

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Speaker 4: So that's something that I've had to overcome.

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Speaker 3: But personally having a disability hasn't been a huge journey

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Speaker 3: of acceptance for me because I haven't known any differently.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, once you had your leg amputated, was there a

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Speaker 2: rehab where you were in the hospital for a long

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Speaker 2: time you could integrate with children, school, home education? What

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Speaker 2: did that look like?

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Speaker 4: So I lost my leg.

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Speaker 3: I just turned three years old when I lost my leg.

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Speaker 3: I did rehabilitation at the hospital. I think from what

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Speaker 3: I've seen and from what I've heard, my mum would

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Speaker 3: take me into the hospital and do rehabilitation with the

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Speaker 3: pediatric physiotherapist there, and it was just simple games that

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Speaker 3: they would play with me, Like there is a video

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Speaker 3: that we have on home footage of the physiotherapist and

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Speaker 3: she's you know, throwing a balloon to me and she's

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Speaker 3: trying to get me to wait bear on my prosthetic.

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Speaker 3: And so I was actually in the process of healing

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Speaker 3: without even realizing that I was. It was all just

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Speaker 3: fun and games for me at that age, and so

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Speaker 3: I was still able to, I suppose, integrate straight back

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Speaker 3: into my old life, although I did look a little

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Speaker 3: bit differently now that I was missing a leg. I

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Speaker 3: went straight you know, back home, was working with a physiotherapist,

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Speaker 3: but was still playing with alongside my siblings. And then

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Speaker 3: I went to primary school at the same age as

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Speaker 3: my twin sister, and I was really fortunate to have

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Speaker 3: my twin sister there because you know, I think we

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Speaker 3: learned so much through play. When we're a kid, I was,

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Speaker 3: you know, having a challenge in front of me, whether

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Speaker 3: that was riding a bike or climbing a tree, things

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Speaker 3: that were a bit more difficult for me than it

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Speaker 3: was for my twin sister because I was missing a leg.

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Speaker 3: But my sister and I always found some way to

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Speaker 3: be able to get to the top of that tree,

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Speaker 3: or to be able to get onto the bike. And

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Speaker 3: it was an amazing process of learning how to adapt

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Speaker 3: to the environment around me and how to find a

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Speaker 3: solution no matter what. It was just through the simple

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Speaker 3: act of play, where it almost became part of my

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Speaker 3: mentality that there is like a huge problem in front

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Speaker 3: of me, but that's fine. It's almost a game to

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Speaker 3: play where we can find a way to get to

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Speaker 3: the top of the mountain. And I had that ingrained

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Speaker 3: in me from a very young age because of my disability.

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Speaker 4: So I do credit a lot of.

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Speaker 3: I suppose my determination to my disability, and I think

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Speaker 3: that's why I'm quite fond of it.

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Speaker 2: Actually the water did when did someone think about chucking

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Speaker 2: you in a swimming pool? Because was it at a

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Speaker 2: young age? Was it part of your rehabilitation? What was

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Speaker 2: when did someone go, oh, this is a good idea,

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Speaker 2: We're chuck Ellie in a swimming pool?

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Speaker 4: Was how she gets for or in?

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Speaker 3: It was just a few weeks after my amputation, and

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Speaker 3: it's quite commonplace to have a swimming pool as a

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Speaker 3: rehabilitation space because you can learn how to use your

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Speaker 3: body again without worrying about gravity or putting too.

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Speaker 4: Much load on your body.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Non impact, Yeah, non impact.

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Speaker 3: It's probably quite insensitive for me to want to head

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Speaker 3: down to our local rehabilitation pool and pick out our

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Speaker 3: next Paralympic superstars, but it genuinely is where a lot

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Speaker 3: of our Paralympic swimmers have come from as a rehabilitation pool.

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Speaker 3: And so I went around in circles for a couple

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Speaker 3: of weeks with my broken rudder. But once again, it

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Speaker 3: was just a simple act of adapting to what I

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Speaker 3: was doing, and I figured out how to swim in

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Speaker 3: a straight line pretty quickly. And yeah, I was just

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Speaker 3: then went through the normal lender swim program that my

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Speaker 3: twin sister was and swimming wasn't that hard as it

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Speaker 3: turned out.

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Speaker 2: Wow, And I suppose as well, you know, looking on

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Speaker 2: the positive side and taking putting the disability aside. You know,

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Speaker 2: you were swimming from the age of three. Having that

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Speaker 2: confidence in the water is huge. It's a life skill,

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Speaker 2: it's a life lesson, right, Yeah, it really was.

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Speaker 3: And I think the swimming pool was a safe space

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Speaker 3: for me because.

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Speaker 4: You mentioned before, you know how great kids are.

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Speaker 3: Once they see something as different to them, they identify

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Speaker 3: that very quickly, but then they just move on with

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Speaker 3: their life. When I was younger, growing up, I found

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Speaker 3: the kids were very accommodating and accepting of my disability.

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Speaker 3: It was actually the adults without meaning to be. They

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Speaker 3: always had good intentions, but they always had very deep

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Speaker 3: rooted experiences with what they assumed disability was and was

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Speaker 3: always pushing that on me, like, you have this, so therefore,

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Speaker 3: this is what you're going to do.

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Speaker 4: And yeah.

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Speaker 3: The swimming pool for me was a place where I

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Speaker 3: could go and I could take off my prosthetic, I

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Speaker 3: could jump in the water and I could feel like

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Speaker 3: any other kid around me, and no one would even

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Speaker 3: know that I was different until I actually got out

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Speaker 3: of the water and people could see that I was

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Speaker 3: missing a leg. I just looked the same as everybody else,

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Speaker 3: and I had the same opportunity put in front of

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Speaker 3: me as everybody else, and it was probably the only

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Speaker 3: environment where I felt that. So I've always loved the

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Speaker 3: swimming pool because it was kind of where I started

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Speaker 3: off my Paralympic career, of course, but it was a

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Speaker 3: place where I could have the same opportunities as the

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Speaker 3: child who was sitting next to me, and I could

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Speaker 3: I had choice over what I could or couldn't do.

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Speaker 2: When was the first time, Because we're talking, you know,

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Speaker 2: hugely positive about you know the disability, and you know

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Speaker 2: what happened to you to yourself. But when was the

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Speaker 2: Was there ever a time growing up where you actually

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Speaker 2: realized that CAR have got a disability?

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Speaker 3: Not until I was much older. Actually, I was a

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Speaker 3: pretty naive kid because I had the support of my

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Speaker 3: twin sister, and I was always doing everything alongside her,

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Speaker 3: and I was achieving the same things that she was

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Speaker 3: in terms of sport and athletic achievements or physical achievements.

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Speaker 3: I never really saw my disability as a disability in

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Speaker 3: a way. And I grew up going through primary school.

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Speaker 3: Everyone that I went to primary school with I met

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Speaker 3: when I was just five years old, so they became

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Speaker 3: very used to the fact that I did have one

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Speaker 3: as well, and almost was like it just was never acknowledged,

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Speaker 3: And it never really was acknowledged in a way where.

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Speaker 4: It set me back either.

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Speaker 3: So I grew up in a really positive environment within

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Speaker 3: my schooling system and my family life as well, and

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Speaker 3: it probably wasn't until I was actually in year six,

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Speaker 3: when I was twelve years old, where I would have

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Speaker 3: been a bit younger than that.

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Speaker 4: But my sports teacher.

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Speaker 3: Told me that I needed to sit this particular basketball

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Speaker 3: game out because I couldn't move as quickly as the

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Speaker 3: other kids. And she was right, like I couldn't. When

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Speaker 3: I said, what do you mean, she said, because of

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Speaker 3: your prosthetic, And I was like, there's bit, like I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna pleete myself here.

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Speaker 2: Go for it and go for it.

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Speaker 3: I was so upset, and that's always stuck with me

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Speaker 3: for some reason, because she really.

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Speaker 2: Could limited limited you to a disability basically that you,

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Speaker 2: in your head at that age, didn't believe that you

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Speaker 2: had right. You were just like you said, kid, go lucky,

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Speaker 2: young age.

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Speaker 3: And if she had just given me the opportunity and

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Speaker 3: the chance, she could have seen what I could have done.

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Speaker 3: And something very similar happened a couple of weeks ago.

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Speaker 3: I was in the jungle for a reality television show

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Speaker 3: that's quite popular, and one of the other camp mates

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Speaker 3: nominated me for a rock climbing challenge and I got

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Speaker 3: to this rock climbing wall and they made me stand

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Speaker 3: down at the bottom and sent someone else up this

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Speaker 3: rock climbing wall.

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Speaker 4: Love rock climbing. I could have done that wall.

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Speaker 3: But then all this social commentary happened, saying, Oh, I

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Speaker 3: don't think that they sent Elliot up the wall because

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Speaker 3: she has a disability. And the whole reason why I

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Speaker 3: went on that show was to challenge the idea of

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Speaker 3: what it is to have a disability. So that really

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Speaker 3: annoyed me as well.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, Ellie, I'm surprised you didn't go get out

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Speaker 2: of the way and just go up the wall and

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Speaker 2: climb the wall. Anyway, But going back to that year

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Speaker 2: six moment, was that start of a negative seed in

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Speaker 2: your heads that you were fighting against that gave you

302
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,920
Speaker 2: even more determination to go to prouit, you know, to

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Speaker 2: put the middle finger up and go f you. You know?

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Speaker 2: Was it? Did that help you in your quest to

305
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,840
Speaker 2: become a Paralympic champion?

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Speaker 3: I don't think it put a seat of negativity in me.

307
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:51,280
Speaker 3: I think it made me realize quite quickly that there

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Speaker 3: are people that are going to be in your life,

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Speaker 3: or you're going to cross paths within your life, who

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Speaker 3: aren't educated in particular areas in the way that they

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Speaker 3: should be, and so I actually took it more of

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Speaker 3: a responsibility of this is what she believes, because it's

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Speaker 3: the information that she's been presented with up until now.

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Speaker 3: And so I really took that as a responsibility when

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Speaker 3: I was a Paralympic athlete to be able to really

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Speaker 3: challenge the way that people think. And I will never

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Speaker 3: hold the way that somebody thinks against them personally, because

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Speaker 3: it's the information that they've received up until that point

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Speaker 3: and it's their own perceptions of the world. So I

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00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,160
Speaker 3: have always taken as a responsibility to make sure that

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Speaker 3: I challenge that as much as I can. And that's

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Speaker 3: why I've loved the Paralympic movement so much, and probably

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Speaker 3: why I was on the Australian swim team for seventeen years,

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Speaker 3: because I could really see some positive momentum from I

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Speaker 3: suppose my performances in the swimming pool and the performances

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Speaker 3: of my entire Paralympic team. I could see some amazing

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Speaker 3: momentum and I think that momentums getting stronger and stronger

328
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Speaker 3: every single game soar. But I saw such a difference

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00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,120
Speaker 3: in sport between Olympic and Paralympic sport when I first started,

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Speaker 3: you know, around Sydney two thousand Olympics. That's when I

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Speaker 3: was really inspired to become an elite athlete.

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Speaker 4: I didn't even know.

333
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,200
Speaker 3: About the Paralympics in Sydney two thousand and so my

334
00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,840
Speaker 3: heroes were Patria Thomas and Susi O'Neil, and I wanted

335
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,280
Speaker 3: to be Susi O'Neil desperately because I didn't have anything

336
00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,560
Speaker 3: else to aspire to at that point in time. And

337
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,399
Speaker 3: then I saw the Paralympic Games in two thousand and

338
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,200
Speaker 3: four and knew I wanted to become a Paralympian. But

339
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,240
Speaker 3: I saw a completely different world for the Paralympics than

340
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,199
Speaker 3: the Olympics in terms of the way that you know,

341
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,960
Speaker 3: they were commercially sponsored, the way that they were valued

342
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,560
Speaker 3: as athletes, the way that they were funded, like, it

343
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,480
Speaker 3: was so different and it still is, but it's becoming

344
00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,639
Speaker 3: better because of the awareness that's happening around the Paralympic movement.

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Speaker 2: When did you realize that you were on you're going

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Speaker 2: to represent your country, that you're on the Australian swimming team.

347
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,240
Speaker 2: When did that call come up? And can you remember

348
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,840
Speaker 2: that moment where they were like what you're going to

349
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,719
Speaker 2: represent your country. How old of you are you? And

350
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Speaker 2: do you remember where you were when you got that call?

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Speaker 2: So that's a big moment, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: It was a big moment because I had really only

353
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,960
Speaker 3: just discovered the Paralympic movement. I'd only been familiar with

354
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Speaker 3: the Paralympic movement for about two years up until this point,

355
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,120
Speaker 3: or two or three years. And I got the call

356
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:29,160
Speaker 3: up when I actually I actually went to the Australian

357
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Speaker 3: Swimming Trials. So every year we have the Australian Swimming

358
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Speaker 3: Trials and that's where you go if you want to

359
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,280
Speaker 3: qualify for the Australian swim team that year. And I

360
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:40,399
Speaker 3: had a phenomenal competition at that trials and I just

361
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,320
Speaker 3: scraped onto the Australian swimming team to go to the

362
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,600
Speaker 3: two thousand and six World Swimming Championships.

363
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:47,640
Speaker 4: You don't actually get a call up.

364
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:49,200
Speaker 3: You have to wait until the end of the week

365
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,280
Speaker 3: after all the swimming trials are finished, and then you

366
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,199
Speaker 3: get a tap on the shoulder and say you're on

367
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,880
Speaker 3: the Australian swim team. Meet me in this meeting room

368
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Speaker 3: in half an hour where we'll do the induction.

369
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Speaker 4: That's how it happened.

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00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:04,240
Speaker 2: Did that feel though? Obviously there's bags and nerves. I

371
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,720
Speaker 2: can imagine, you know, leading up to it, thinking have

372
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:07,400
Speaker 2: you done enough?

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00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:08,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So, being fourteen years old, I don't think I understood

375
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,360
Speaker 3: the full gravity of what I was walking into. I

376
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,360
Speaker 3: was also still quite naive. I've pretty much ever spent

377
00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:22,080
Speaker 3: my whole life being quite naive. Actually, and I was

378
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,280
Speaker 3: by far the most excited person in the room. Everyone

379
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,399
Speaker 3: else on the swim team was in the early to

380
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,640
Speaker 3: mid twenties. I was fourteen years old and I was

381
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,760
Speaker 3: so excited. I think I annoyed everybody on that team

382
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,400
Speaker 3: for the whole three weeks were away, and I didn't

383
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,719
Speaker 3: really understand, like I said, the gravity of being an

384
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,560
Speaker 3: Australian dolphin, which is what we call our swimmers on

385
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:48,159
Speaker 3: this team. I remember competing at that World Swimming Championships

386
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,800
Speaker 3: and before my one hundred meters backstroke final, I you know,

387
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,199
Speaker 3: the whistle blew and I jumped into the water. I

388
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,200
Speaker 3: was about to say both feet, one foot into the water,

389
00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 3: and I looked up at my swimming coach and I

390
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,439
Speaker 3: was waving at her before they said take your marks,

391
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:06,439
Speaker 3: and she was like Ellie focus but reflecting.

392
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 4: On my whole career.

393
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 3: I've never actually been the one to go through the

394
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 3: same motions behind the blocks as all the other swimmers.

395
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,120
Speaker 4: I've always been the one who was.

396
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,359
Speaker 3: Had a bit more fun with it, you know, I

397
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,360
Speaker 3: haven't been focusing, always the one that's kind of just having

398
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,560
Speaker 3: a good time and don't I think it takes the

399
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 3: pressure off, to be honest, And I remember my coach

400
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,400
Speaker 3: telling me that this is the way that swimmers approached

401
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,600
Speaker 3: the blocks before a race. You have to be really serious,

402
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:32,879
Speaker 3: you have to take four breaths and black. It was

403
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 3: just it was almost methodical, and I just never wanted

404
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:37,639
Speaker 3: to do that. I always had a lot of fun

405
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 3: with my racing.

406
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,399
Speaker 2: When you talk about swiming, you were a huge smile

407
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 2: on your face. Did you love it? Were you really

408
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 2: really passionate about it? I suppose you have to be

409
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 2: a that's it or were you just just found out

410
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,399
Speaker 2: it's someone that you were good at. Was that still

411
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,840
Speaker 2: your safe space growing older? You know, all thro all

412
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 2: through your teenage years and your adult years. Did you

413
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 2: carry that on from that young age of three?

414
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,639
Speaker 3: So swimming, yeah, definitely started out to be my safe space.

415
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 3: I think I was so excited when I first represented Australia,

416
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,919
Speaker 3: because it was still kind of off the back of

417
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,639
Speaker 3: the Sydney two thousand Olympics, and I just felt like, wow,

418
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,439
Speaker 3: you know, these are the same footsteps that Ian Thorpe

419
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,399
Speaker 3: and since you and Nila have walked in, like, I

420
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 3: knew that it was prestigious, as much as I didn't

421
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,879
Speaker 3: really understand the full gravity and the impact that it

422
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 3: could have, and so I was just I loved the

423
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,960
Speaker 3: idea of being like the heroes that I admired when

424
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,159
Speaker 3: I was growing up, and I think that's what I

425
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 3: really enjoyed about swimming at the beginning in terms of

426
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 3: the safe space. The swimming pool actually stopped being my

427
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,880
Speaker 3: safe space when I was about sixteen or seventeen years old,

428
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,239
Speaker 3: and that's probably when I struggled the most in my

429
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 3: life mentally, because I had this safe space that I'd

430
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 3: had for my entire life, and then that safe space

431
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 3: got violated in a way and was taken away from me,

432
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 3: and I didn't have that safe space anymore. And there

433
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,400
Speaker 3: was a few really rough years in my swimming career

434
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,479
Speaker 3: when I was an Australian Institute of Sport athlete, and

435
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 3: it was a very much win it all costs mentality

436
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 3: and do whatever it takes to win. And I didn't

437
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 3: consider any part of myself as a human person really,

438
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,400
Speaker 3: and it was quite damaging and I needed to take

439
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 3: a few years off after that experience, but I found

440
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 3: my love for the sport again.

441
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,120
Speaker 4: And yeah, why.

442
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 2: Did that happen? Ellie? Could you mind taking us back

443
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 2: to that part of your life where it was no

444
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 2: longer a safe space?

445
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 4: High performance sport.

446
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 3: This is all obviously just my experience, but high performance

447
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,120
Speaker 3: sport in my experience, has been really interesting because when

448
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 3: you're a young child and you see your Olympic or

449
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 3: Paralympic heroes on the television screen, you know that you

450
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,160
Speaker 3: want to be like them, but you don't really understand

451
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 3: the physical and emotional work that it takes to be

452
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 3: able to get to the top of your game. And

453
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 3: it's almost like the pressure to perform and what it

454
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 3: takes to perform is drip fed to you so slowly

455
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 3: after a long during a long period of time, that

456
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 3: you don't really realize what you're in until you're already

457
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 3: neck deep in it. And certain behaviors, certain environments almost

458
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 3: become acceptable to you that if you stand out of

459
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 3: the box that you're standing in and looking in and

460
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 3: you're like, this is not a safe environment for somebody

461
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 3: to be in for a long period of time. But

462
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 3: when you're in it, you don't see it until you've

463
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 3: retired in a way, or until you're like until it

464
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 3: blindsides you and punches you in the face. And so

465
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,719
Speaker 3: that's kind of the experience that I had where I

466
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 3: knew that I want to be a high performing athlete.

467
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:06,919
Speaker 3: I didn't realize the culture, or the effort, or I

468
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 3: suppose the win it all costs mentality that that would

469
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 3: take until I was already neck deep in it. And

470
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 3: so my experience was I had moved to high performance

471
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 3: training program. I was expected I just finished high school,

472
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 3: so I was expected to be a full time athlete.

473
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 3: I was training ten times a week in the pool

474
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 3: for two two and a half hours a session, so

475
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 3: sometimes five hours a day in the pool, three hours

476
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 3: a day in the gym. But the interesting part about

477
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 3: the environment that I was in is that I lived

478
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 3: on residence, and so I was a very insular environment

479
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 3: where everything that I did was around becoming a gold

480
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 3: medalist athlete, and so I pretty much I lived at

481
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 3: the pool was I only lived with athletes. I wasn't

482
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 3: allowed to live off residents, I wasn't allowed to work,

483
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 3: I wasn't even really allowed to date at the time,

484
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 3: and so everything that I did was controlled, and it

485
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 3: was very controlled environment, and I didn't get any autonomy over.

486
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 4: Who I was.

487
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 3: Obviously, with athletes back then, physique was critically important, so

488
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 3: we would get as skin folds taken, we would be told,

489
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 3: you know, you have to look this way, you have

490
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 3: to eat this way, you have to behave this way,

491
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 3: you have to train this way, and if you're injured,

492
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 3: just ignore it and keep pushing.

493
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 2: You said that you had a bad couple of years.

494
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 2: When did the bubble burst? And you know, and you

495
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 2: take a step back and go right, I need to

496
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 2: do things a bit differently, you know, in order again

497
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 2: to fall in love with the sport.

498
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 3: It was interesting because I suppose the bubble burst me

499
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 3: after the London twenty twelve Games. So this experience that

500
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 3: I was having, it was in the lead into the

501
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 3: London twenty twelve games, so from two thousand and nine

502
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 3: to twenty twelve, and so the bubble began to burst

503
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 3: a couple of months before the London twenty twelve games

504
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 3: I had. I had some pretty significant shoulder injuries by

505
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 3: that stage, where I couldn't actually lift my arms above

506
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 3: ninety degrees, I couldn't wash my hair, I couldn't take

507
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 3: a jacket off, and then I was still swimming like

508
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 3: ten kilometers a day on these shoulders that were effectively

509
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 3: being torn off my arms, and so that was happening.

510
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 3: I had pretty significant injuries. And then there are a

511
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 3: few cultural things that were happening within my program that

512
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 3: weren't pleasant to be around, and so the bubble started

513
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 3: bursting in the lead up to the London twenty twelve games,

514
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 3: and so they bought in different management for my swim

515
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 3: team in the lead into those games. But then my

516
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 3: coach at the time was diagnosed with a terminal illness

517
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 3: and so had to step away, and then we had

518
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 3: to move up to Queensland a couple of months before

519
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 3: we actually headed off to the London twenty twelve games.

520
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 3: So it was a really bad experience in hindsight going

521
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 3: into those games. And then once those games finished, I

522
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 3: came home, I just fell into this heap and I

523
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 3: didn't know who I was because I'd never been able

524
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 3: to really over the last years anyway, I'd changed so

525
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 3: much as a person, but I'd never had any autonomy

526
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 3: or decision making over who that person was going to be,

527
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:08,239
Speaker 3: and so by the time I got to the end

528
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 3: of it, I didn't know who I was and it

529
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 3: was really tough, and I did not have a good

530
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 3: association with the sport at all and needed to take

531
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 3: I think I took two and a half years out

532
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 3: of the pool to just mentally recover from that experience.

533
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 4: It was awful.

534
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 2: You've You've skipped over quite an important bit there, because

535
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 2: you just went twenty twelve Olympics and this is what

536
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 2: I went through. But even more impressive, I suppose with

537
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 2: what you were going through from twenty ten to twenty twelve,

538
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 2: you still went to the twenty twelve Olympic Games and

539
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 2: came away with gold, right, yeah, it so can we

540
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 2: quickly go back to that moment of winning the gold medal? Please?

541
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, we can do that, I guess.

542
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, those games were certainly interesting because I hadn't I

543
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 3: didn't have the best headspace going into those games, but

544
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 3: I knew that I'd put an incredible amount of work

545
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 3: and I didn't want that work to go to waste,

546
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 3: and particularly with my coach having a terminent illness, I

547
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 3: also wanted to make sure that I'd finish the job

548
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 3: that we'd set out to do and perform really well

549
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 3: for him. And yeah, I did end up winning four

550
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 3: gold and two runs at the London twenty twelve Games,

551
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 3: but I was just.

552
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 2: A small thing to skip over. Listen, I want to

553
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 2: know what it was like knowing that you've won gold

554
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 2: the moment you entered the water. Was it like I've

555
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 2: got this?

556
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 3: I was pretty confident within myself before those races that

557
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 3: I won. The first race that I won over there

558
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 3: was the one hundred meters backstroke events, and I knew

559
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 3: that my back end, so second fifty out of the hundred,

560
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 3: was faster than anybody else in the field, and so

561
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 3: I knew that if I had turned first at the

562
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,719
Speaker 3: fifty minute mark, that I would win the race. And

563
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 3: so I remember doing that tumble turn and looking at

564
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 3: my biggest threat in the pool and seeing that she

565
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 3: was behind, and I knew from that moment, I'm like,

566
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 3: I've just got to finish this.

567
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 2: So were you just like that to the other half

568
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 2: the other fifty year? Just like no, I was to

569
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 2: get my gold medal.

570
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 4: I'll see you on the podium.

571
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll see you on the boat.

572
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 3: No, it wasn't like that. It was a huge sense

573
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 3: of relief to win that medal though, because once you've

574
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 3: won that gold medal, you're a gold medalist.

575
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, tell me about that, because obviously there's a build up.

576
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: There's the anticipation. Don't forget the hard work, the isolation,

577
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 2: the mental resilience and emotional resilience that you needed to

578
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 2: you need to become a gold medal winner. But what

579
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 2: did that sort of get off your shoulders.

580
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 3: I think it's a huge relief because, as I mentioned,

581
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 3: no one really understands the work that goes into winning

582
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 3: a gold medal. Now, just because you put that work

583
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 3: in doesn't mean that you're guaranteed to win one.

584
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 4: It's actually you've got a very small chance of winning.

585
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 3: So to be able to put that work in, to

586
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 3: put my whole life on hold, to almost not even

587
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 3: know who I was at the other end, and then

588
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 3: to be able to be rewarded with the highest accolade

589
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 3: that you could in sport, that was the relief because

590
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 3: it gave a acknowledgment to the effort that you had

591
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 3: put in.

592
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 4: But it's interesting.

593
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 3: I remember watching the Tokyo Olympic Games and seeing Arion Titmas,

594
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 3: who had a very successful games. When you win that

595
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 3: gold medal early in your swimming program and you still

596
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 3: have events on after you almost have you can't even

597
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 3: really celebrate or sit in that moment for too long

598
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 3: because you still have a job to do, You still

599
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 3: have other events to perform. It doesn't mean that, you know,

600
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 3: you can kick your feet up and have a good

601
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 3: time and sit back and retire for the rest of

602
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 3: your life. You've got to warm down and get ready

603
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 3: for an event the next morning. So you can't even

604
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 3: really enjoy that moment. And so that's something that I

605
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 3: wasn't really expecting and is a bit of a shame

606
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 3: because it is a huge achievement, but you can't sit

607
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 3: in that achievement. But it's something I'm telling you that

608
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 3: you celebrate very hard. When you get home from the games,

609
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 3: you have the best celebration of your life.

610
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 2: So you clean up with a twenty twelve London Olympics.

611
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 2: Talk to me about the suck up? Is it? Separation

612
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 2: between you know, the Parer Olympics and the Olympics was

613
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 2: it obvious at the twenty twelve Games. Were you quite

614
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 2: shocked at about it?

615
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was.

616
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 3: Actually I wasn't shocked about it at all because it

617
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 3: had been something that I'd grown quite accustomed to being

618
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 3: a para athlete for most of my life. But at

619
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 3: that point, the London twenty twelve Games, the Olympic and

620
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 3: Paralympic movement was still quite segregated in that, you know,

621
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 3: obviously Olympians were very celebrated, like I won four gold

622
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 3: medals at London, and no one knew me from a

623
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 3: bar soap. My next door neighbor wouldn't have even known

624
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 3: who I was. And so you had to really carry

625
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 3: out who you were as an athlete, not for any

626
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 3: kind of praise from the public or any commercial sponsors

627
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 3: that you may receive from being a successful athlete. You

628
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 3: genuinely had to compete because you wanted to and you

629
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 3: had that self ambition to do that as a paralympian

630
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 3: back then. Obviously things are a bit different now with

631
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 3: the integration between Olympics and Paralympics, but back in.

632
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 4: Twenty twelve, it was very very segregated.

633
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 3: The Paralympics went even on mainstream television at the time,

634
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 3: and you know, receiving very minimal airtime, if at all.

635
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 3: And so you really did have to do the sport

636
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 3: and sacrifice a lot in your life simply because you

637
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 3: had a huge goal that you wanted to achieve and

638
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 3: that was the only reason why you ever I would

639
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 3: become a paralympian back then, so.

640
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 2: You were in a complete professional focus headspace. You know, well,

641
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 2: I've just got to get this job done. Did you

642
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 2: manage to take an outside step from you know, everything

643
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 2: that was going on and actually realize what you'd achieved.

644
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 3: In terms of realizing what I'd achieved, that didn't really

645
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 3: come until this year, really, but in terms of falling

646
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 3: back in love with the sport again, I took two

647
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 3: two and a half years out of the sport. I

648
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 3: needed to get my shoulders reconstructed and rehabilitated. For one

649
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 3: and two I needed to mentally take a step back

650
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 3: from high performance because I mentioned, you know, the culture

651
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 3: around the high performance space wasn't Yeah, it wasn't the

652
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 3: best place to be in long term anyway. And so

653
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 3: I actually didn't really know, as I mentioned, who I

654
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 3: was at the time. I didn't have any skill sets,

655
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 3: so I was still studying at university. But I had

656
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,959
Speaker 3: never had a job in my life, and so I

657
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 3: decided that I don't have any skills, I'm going to

658
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 3: become a swim coach, and so I started coaching young kids.

659
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 3: And I was teaching kids from the age of nine

660
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 3: to twelve years old about how to become an athlete

661
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 3: in terms of, you know, how to race. These kids

662
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 3: were just entering the arena of racing and competing and swimming,

663
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 3: and I really grew attached to these kids that I

664
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 3: was coaching. I was coaching about fifteen of them, and

665
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 3: I was so proud of them every time. They were

666
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 3: all incredibly hard workers, they had amazing work ethic, particularly

667
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 3: for their age, and every time they competed and did well,

668
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 3: I became really emotional. I was very invested in their

669
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 3: swimming journeys. And that's actually how I fell in love

670
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 3: with the sport again. It was through reconnecting with you know,

671
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 3: community sport and grassroots sport and being really proud of

672
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 3: these young athletes. And I think the moment that really

673
00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 3: connected for me and wanting to get back into this

674
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 3: sport is I was at Macquarie Park in Sydney and

675
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 3: I was at this ice skating rink and I was

676
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,959
Speaker 3: watching this young girl who was ice skating. I didn't

677
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 3: know her, but she was so talented. And I remember

678
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 3: saying to my partner, look how talented this girl is.

679
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,959
Speaker 3: She could make the Olympics one day. And my partner said, well,

680
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 3: you're a Paralympian, you're a gold medalist. You're talented as well.

681
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 3: And kind of that's the first moment time I ever

682
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 3: really actually acknowledged it. And it may be quite emotional

683
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 3: because I was kind of acknowledging everybody else in my

684
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 3: life except for me. And so that's something I know

685
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 3: that I don't do that well, is acknowledge what my

686
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 3: achievements have been. And even last week I was with

687
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 3: our Chef de mission, so our team general manager for Paris,

688
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 3: a Paralympic team, and I said to her, because they're

689
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 3: taking a whole bunch of medals, Olympic and Paralympic medals

690
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 3: over to Paris to showcase in a museum, and so

691
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 3: they asked for one of my gold medals. And Anna

692
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 3: Mears is donating to this museum for the Paris Olympics.

693
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 4: Six of her gold medals. And I said to our

694
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 4: chef to mission.

695
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 3: I was like, did you know that Ana Mirs has

696
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 3: six gold medals? Like that's crazy, and she said back

697
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 3: to me, She's like, Ellie, you've got six as well.

698
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,800
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. So I do acknowledge that that's something

699
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 4: that I'm not very good at.

700
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 2: When did Rio come on your radar?

701
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 1: So?

702
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 4: Rio came on my radar.

703
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 3: I got back into just general club swimming through the

704
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 3: club that I was coaching with, and so that's how

705
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 3: I got back into swimming. And then I decided I

706
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 3: wanted to try and make that Rio Paralympic team whilst

707
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 3: training at the club that had almost fostered my emotional

708
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 3: rehabilitation into the sport, and so I almost wanted to

709
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 3: do it for my swimming club and like the community,

710
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 3: grassroots thing.

711
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 4: And I think because that.

712
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 3: Safe space of the swimming pool had been taken away

713
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 3: from me, this club that I was swimming with had

714
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 3: given me the safe space back, and so I felt

715
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 3: like I needed to say thank you. And the best

716
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 3: way that I could do that was to represent them

717
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 3: on a world stage Castle Hill, RSL Dolphins, and I

718
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,439
Speaker 3: did a pretty good job in Rio.

719
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 4: I won a few.

720
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 3: Few I don't know I can't remember.

721
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:19,919
Speaker 4: I honestly can't.

722
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 2: Amazing, that's phenomenal. Are you as confident, as confident as

723
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 2: the twenty twelve Olympics and obviously you're in a better

724
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 2: headspace now. So did you have a lot different experience

725
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 2: going into into Rio than you did into London?

726
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,359
Speaker 4: Oh, it was a different experience. I was. I was

727
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 4: as confident, but in a different way.

728
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 3: I was much more at peace with being a person

729
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 3: as well as an athlete, not just some gold medal

730
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 3: winning robot. So I was looking at Rio through a

731
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 3: very different lens. But it's hard for me to answer

732
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 3: this because the race that I had in that won

733
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 3: the gold medal. I'm so disappointed with that race and

734
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 3: how I swam it that I whilst I was as confident,

735
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 3: I wasn't as happy with the results. And that's why

736
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 3: I came back for another Games in Tokyo, because I

737
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 3: was going to retire in Rio, and then I was like,

738
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 3: I can't retire after that shocking race.

739
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 4: I know that I won, but even though you've.

740
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 2: Got gold, no I can't. It wasn't enough.

741
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 4: I can't.

742
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 2: And why do you think that? Is really just going

743
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 2: back to your your headspace, your mindset and your elite mindset.

744
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 2: Is it because you knew you could have swam better

745
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 2: or you could be better as an individual? What was it?

746
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 2: Was it the external and I could have swam that better,

747
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 2: or I know I can do better as as a

748
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 2: as an individual.

749
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 3: I think it was the process of the race itself.

750
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 3: So athletes are very process driven. We're very fortunate in

751
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 3: our current day and age where we have a team

752
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 3: of exercise scientists and physiologists who pull out one percenters

753
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 3: from all of this data, and so we rely quite

754
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 3: heavily on data. As an athlete will do a heat swim,

755
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 3: they'll do a heap of data about that, all of

756
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 3: these graphs, and you can pinpoint exactly where your weakest

757
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 3: moments were in that in that particular race. So I

758
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 3: know in Rio, in the between twenty five and thirty

759
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,919
Speaker 3: five meters, I dropped my stroke rate, so my stow

760
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 3: crate went from forty seven to forty three, and that

761
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 3: is not acceptable to me. Wow, So I know that

762
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 3: I could have done better in that event. And I

763
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 3: always chase perfection in my race, and what I mean

764
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:36,879
Speaker 3: by that is to make sure that my race data

765
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 3: was as consistent as it could have been, and that

766
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 3: I didn't drop the ball anywhere.

767
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 2: And are you in the same mindset now with everything

768
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 2: that you do in life, or if you managed to

769
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 2: untrain your not untrain your mind, I suppose, but unwire

770
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,720
Speaker 2: that part, because I suppose you'll just be beating yourself

771
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 2: up every single day.

772
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:55,839
Speaker 3: If you see it as an opportunity, you don't beat

773
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,479
Speaker 3: yourself up. That's the I think one thing that I've

774
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 3: really taken away from my career into and translated that

775
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:06,240
Speaker 3: into my life now is that I know that everything

776
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 3: that we do is a learning process and you can

777
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 3: chase perfection, but you can't be perfect. And I love, love,

778
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 3: really constructive feedback, and I feel like a lot of

779
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 3: people are so scared to offer feedback because they're worried

780
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,959
Speaker 3: about how somebody is going to react to being told

781
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 3: that they're not doing something well. So I think one

782
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 3: thing that I have taken into my life now is

783
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 3: that I actually prefer to not do things well. No,

784
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 3: of course I want to do things to a high standard,

785
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 3: but I understand that to get to a point of

786
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 3: being very elite at something, whether that's doing the dishes,

787
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,280
Speaker 3: whether that's hanging you washing, whether that's changing world politics.

788
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 3: To become a lead in something, it does take practice.

789
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 3: And so I don't beat myself up at all over

790
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 3: anything because I know that my standards are incredibly high

791
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 3: and I know that I will do the work to

792
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 3: get there. And as long as I'm willing to do

793
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 3: the work, then I can't beat myself up. As soon

794
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 3: as I give up and sit down and say no,

795
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 3: I'm not doing this anymore, that is the bit that

796
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 3: I'll viat myself up over.

797
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 2: Good yeah, good, yeah, yeah. There you go from London

798
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 2: to Rio to Tokyo. More medals in Tokyo. But an

799
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 2: important question I suppose, and I know it's important for

800
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 2: you as well. What was the difference, like, you know,

801
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 2: from London to Rio to Tokyo in you know, acceptance

802
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 2: inclusivity of the Paralympics and the Olympic Games. Did you

803
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 2: see an obvious change during the three and how's it

804
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 2: sitting now?

805
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 3: I saw huge change begin as soon as the Paralympics

806
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 3: signed a television rights deal on the same network that

807
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 3: the Olympic Games were on. So in at the Rio Games,

808
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 3: both of those Olympics and Paralympics were on Network seven,

809
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 3: and because they were both on Network seven. Those athletes

810
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 3: were being supported by the same commercial partners. So a

811
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 3: commercial partner would want to sponsor a few Olympic athletes

812
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 3: and a few Paralympic athletes and do a whole bunch

813
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 3: of advertising and promotion of that commercial support. And so

814
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 3: the more visibility that Paralympic athletes had, whether that was

815
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 3: on television networks, whether that was in advertising campaigns, just

816
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 3: getting faces of Paralympians out there and stories of Paralympians

817
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 3: out there. I find advertising campaigns around Paralympic athletes are

818
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 3: so bloody powerful.

819
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 4: They like a spine tingling. They're amazing.

820
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 3: But the more visibility that we've had effectively that's been

821
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 3: translating into the Paralympic movement becoming even bigger and even

822
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 3: bigger and even bigger. And this game's in particular coming

823
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 3: up in Paris, you're going to see Paralympians more than

824
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 3: you ever have before, and so it really does make

825
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 3: a huge difference as well as social media, you know,

826
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 3: Paralympic athletes being able to have their own voice now

827
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 3: and be able to tell the stories and showcase what

828
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 3: they want to show. Obviously, Paralympic athletes love showing like

829
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 3: for me when I was an athlete. I love showing

830
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 3: like single leg dead lifts and just doing badass things

831
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 3: on my social media because I was able to show

832
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 3: people what I could do finally, and that's what I've

833
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 3: been wanting to do for my whole life. So to

834
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 3: be able to have social media and got to have

835
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 3: networks promoting the Paralympics has made a huge difference. And

836
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 3: Paralympin's household names now, so it's been amazing.

837
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 2: No, absolutely, they are indeed And another important though, you

838
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 2: are a mother.

839
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm how old four and a half month old

840
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 4: little boy.

841
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 2: I'm surprised you've made it to the podcast if I'm

842
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 2: being honestly four and a half. What's it like being

843
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 2: a mum?

844
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:42,720
Speaker 4: It's amazing.

845
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 3: It's interesting because I'm not actuallyite. I've never been maternal

846
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 3: or anything, and I wasn't sure what my experience of

847
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 3: being a mum was going to be like.

848
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 4: But I remember holding him on the very first day

849
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 4: that he was.

850
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 3: Born and being like, oh my gosh, I couldn't look

851
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 3: at anything apart from his cute little face. And I

852
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 3: can hear it all the time people talk about their

853
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 3: kids growing up, but they do go very quickly, and

854
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 3: he is learning very quickly. And at the moment, my

855
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 3: favorite thing in the morning is to wake up. He

856
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 3: sleeps in a CoA sleeper next to me and he's

857
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 3: always looking at me when I wake up, and he

858
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 3: just gives me the biggest.

859
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:19,439
Speaker 4: Smile and oh yeah, he's the best.

860
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 3: His name's Felix and he was born with as much

861
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 3: hair as Patrick Dempsey, so I think he's going to

862
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 3: be a bit of a heartbreaker. He's got great hair.

863
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 3: He always needs a haircut. He's starting to get a mullet.

864
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 2: Wow, the a list our envious mind's going, But listen,

865
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 2: we won't talk about that. Do you think we've got

866
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 2: a swimmer on our hands? If you chucked him in

867
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 2: the bath yet?

868
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 4: And oh yeah, he loves the bath.

869
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 2: Can you identify a few strokes that he's.

870
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 4: Doing or yeah, I do. I teach him.

871
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 3: I've really taught him how to do breasts, street kick,

872
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 3: but really I want to get him to lots of

873
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 3: different sports. I'm not sure which one will stick with him,

874
00:44:55,440 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 3: but it's it's interesting because being an athlete was incredibly

875
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 3: hard in terms of the physical exhaustion that you feel.

876
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:07,280
Speaker 4: The entire time you're training.

877
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 3: Being a mum is exhausting, but I actually think it's

878
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 3: not as hard as being a swimmer in terms of

879
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 3: I actually get more sleep now than I did when

880
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 3: I was a swimmer, and I have more energy now

881
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 3: than I did when I was a swimmer, and so

882
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 3: I feel like after retiring from sport, everything is easier.

883
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 4: But he's also a very easy baby. He sleeps. I probably

884
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 4: shouldn't say this, but he sleeps through the night.

885
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 2: Yes, out there, I know.

886
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry, but he's he's starting to teeth, so

887
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 3: he's crying a lot now, so please stop crying. But

888
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 3: when every time he cries, I just put him in

889
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 3: the bath because he loves it.

890
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 2: He's a water baby. Really, it's been an absolute pleasure,

891
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 2: phenomenal career. How many medals are you giving over to

892
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 2: the museum?

893
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 4: Just one? I'm not anime. I don't even know I had.

894
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 2: Six to give, so yeah, listen, keeping on. One's enough,

895
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,240
Speaker 2: one's enough, keep your achievements, listen. Thanks ever so much, Ellie,

896
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 2: and again I look forward to seeing you on our

897
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:15,359
Speaker 2: TV screens very soon. Thank you, thank you, thanks, thanks

898
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 2: so much for joining me on headgame. If you enjoyed

899
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 2: this episode. Make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss

900
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 2: any of our incredible stories, and leave me a review

901
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:29,919
Speaker 2: wherever you're listening, I'm Aunt Middleton. Catch you again next time.