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Speaker 1: Hi, Greevers, Welcome to another installment the show. Tiffany and

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Speaker 1: Cook Lillian Veronica Najad. What's your middle name, Champ? I

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Speaker 1: should know my middle name.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's Maddy Am.

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Speaker 1: Maddy Am. That's fancy.

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Speaker 2: That's way way of saying Mary or Mary and I

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Speaker 2: guess yeah, no.

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Speaker 1: No, that's way fancier than tiff and Craig. What I mean,

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Speaker 1: everything's fancier than Craig.

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Speaker 2: Your name Anthony, Well that's a good nice name.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, but Craig's like fingernails on the blackboard, isn't

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Speaker 1: it No? I think it is the name equivalent anyway,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Lillian, welcome to the project. How are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm all right.

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Speaker 1: Now? You know what I was thinking, because well we

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Speaker 1: just did a we did a interesting chat just before

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Speaker 1: with doctor Bill, who's a regular here, who's a researcher

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Speaker 1: and a genius from the start. It's also like you

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Speaker 1: from the States, also a genius like you Vivity, Bobby

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Speaker 1: Boot look at you. But we're two PhDs. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about tif having a few just feeling a bit flatty,

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Speaker 1: Mac Flatster and me feeling that a bit sometimes. Who

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Speaker 1: looks after you, like, what's your because we're talking about

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Speaker 1: sometimes you know, sometimes you know why you feel shit

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Speaker 1: because something's happened, so you're a bit sad or the

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Speaker 1: breasted or traumatized or anxious about a thing. But sometimes

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Speaker 1: you get up and there hasn't been a thing, and

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Speaker 1: you're like, I have the feeling, but I don't have

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Speaker 1: the or I'm not aware of what's going on. Do

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Speaker 1: you have a bit of that ever?

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Speaker 2: Of course I have that probably lots of times. I

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Speaker 2: think it's a pretty common thing, like just to not

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Speaker 2: feel like your best, and most people don't feel their

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Speaker 2: best right, Like feeling your best is pretty rare, I think,

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Speaker 2: so they don't.

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Speaker 1: Try to Do you try to self diagnose? Or do

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Speaker 1: you talk to someone or do you go I know

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Speaker 1: I'm best when I just stelay from people for a

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Speaker 1: half day, or like what's your go to?

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Speaker 2: I have different I don't think I have one go to.

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Speaker 2: I think it depends on what I what it is.

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Speaker 2: I think I'm good at kind of knowing like what

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Speaker 2: I'm feeling and then not actually needing to necessarily know why. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, some like sometimes we talk about like, you know,

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Speaker 2: the why being super important in lots of context, But

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Speaker 2: I feel like sometimes in mental health and wellbeing, it's

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Speaker 2: somewhere you can get stuck, you know, like if you're

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Speaker 2: just like, oh, why do I feel this way and

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Speaker 2: you just can't work out why, then you're just stuck

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Speaker 2: in like this never ending conversation with yourself about that

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Speaker 2: instead of just like acknowledging the reality of what is

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Speaker 2: right now, being like, Okay, I'm not feeling great, not

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Speaker 2: really sure, why could be ABCD, not really sure what

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Speaker 2: am I going to do about it, and letting and

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Speaker 2: not judging how you feel like. I think that's the

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Speaker 2: other place that people get stuck is judgment. So it's

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Speaker 2: like uncertainty is one I don't know why, so I'm

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Speaker 2: going to just ruminate about that for two hours and

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Speaker 2: or I feel this way and I shouldn't, so I'm

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Speaker 2: just going to ruminate about that and judge myself for

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Speaker 2: the rest of the day and feel worse as a result.

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Speaker 2: Whereas self judgment isn't a huge part of my makeup,

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Speaker 2: I don't think it ever has been, and maybe that's

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Speaker 2: a flaw in some ways, it probably is, but it's

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Speaker 2: been good in other ways. I don't get stuck in judgment.

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Speaker 1: I think self judgment is like an unhealthy version of

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Speaker 1: self awareness.

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Speaker 2: Right totally, you know, yeah, exactly. I think you're right.

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Speaker 2: I think it's healthy to like, like, judgment leads to guilt.

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Speaker 2: Guilt has a function. It can be healthy because you

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Speaker 2: might have done something wrong, right, right, So yeah, you

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Speaker 2: might have made a mistake or you might have hurt

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Speaker 2: someone's feelings, and that guilt is like the signal of like, oh,

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Speaker 2: let's reflect on this. But like you said, you can

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Speaker 2: do that without judging yourself again, and if you're able

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Speaker 2: to do that, then you can most likely do something

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Speaker 2: about it that's effective or helpful or healthy.

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Speaker 1: I think for me it's about self awareness, not self loathing.

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Speaker 1: Like I can recognize things in me that are not good, right,

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Speaker 1: but then me going down an emotional end or psychological

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Speaker 1: rabbit hole of the fuck I'm shit house, woe is me?

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Speaker 1: I'm the worst person? Who am I to tell people

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Speaker 1: what to do? I can't even do it myself. And

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Speaker 1: then it's like, well, okay, you flawed and you're human

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Speaker 1: and you fuck up. Welcome to the world's biggest club,

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Speaker 1: the human club, right, And then you know it's like

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Speaker 1: I feel flat, Okay, that's all right? You probably won't tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: so you know, and we don't need to celebrate it.

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Speaker 1: But I think the more like one of my friends

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Speaker 1: used to get anxious and quite anxious. In fact, a

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Speaker 1: guy worked with and he'd have like these anxiety attacks

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Speaker 1: or panic attacks. And the best thing I could the

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Speaker 1: best thing that he could get from me was I go,

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Speaker 1: look at me. He'd look at me and I go,

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Speaker 1: you're okay. I go, I no, you don't feel okay,

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Speaker 1: but you're okay. He's like, am I I go, you're okay.

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Speaker 1: I go, your big fucking blouse, but you're and he'd laugh.

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Speaker 1: I go, you feel anxious. You feel and I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying you don't or you shouldn't, but it's even though

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Speaker 1: you're anxious, it's all right. You're anxious. You're not going

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Speaker 1: to be anxious in a while. He's like, yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 1: I go, all the other times that you got anxious?

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Speaker 1: He goes, yeah, I go, did you stop being anxious?

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Speaker 1: Eventually he goes, yep, I go, probably going to happen again. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, So you're not denying the feeling, but you're

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Speaker 1: not turning up the volume on it right exactly.

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Speaker 2: And the way I talk about that with myself and

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Speaker 2: with family and with clients and stuff. Is acceptance, you know,

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Speaker 2: Acceptance is being aware of what's going on and seeing

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Speaker 2: reality exactly as it is without judgment, and if that's

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Speaker 2: one of the hardest things to do, because a lot

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Speaker 2: of things are really hard to set the reality of. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but you know what you were asking before, like what

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Speaker 2: do I do? Do I retreat or do I talk

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Speaker 2: to somebody? And I feel like I've got a whole

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Speaker 2: list of things that I do, and it just depends

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Speaker 2: that day and that feeling what I decide. I might

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Speaker 2: put my pajamas on, curl up on the couch and

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Speaker 2: watch a show that makes me feel comforted or gives

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Speaker 2: me a laugh. Or I might know that I'm going

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Speaker 2: to I'm going on a walk with one of my

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Speaker 2: friends that I'll be like, oh, well, i'll park this

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Speaker 2: and I'm going to talk to her about it and

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Speaker 2: get her perspective. Or I might like, do what I

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Speaker 2: did this morning or this afternoon. I should say when

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Speaker 2: my daughter finally came down from her room teenager, it's

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Speaker 2: like one o'clock, two o'clock, and just complain to her,

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Speaker 2: but like in a like not in a like annoying way.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you can do it in an annoying way too,

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Speaker 2: but like in a kind of fun humorous way, and like,

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Speaker 2: you know, in a fun way blaming her for how

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Speaker 2: I feel, but like she knew I wasn't, So we

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Speaker 2: were just able to kind of joke back and forth

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Speaker 2: with each other about how I was feeling. And that

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Speaker 2: put me in a better frame of mind too, because

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Speaker 2: humor is always Humour's always helpful.

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Speaker 1: I think, dude, what are you smiling at?

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Speaker 3: Just the fact that she's blaming your daughter. That's great.

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Speaker 3: I wish I ought to keep now.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god. You can blame them for so many

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Speaker 2: things that made me feel good.

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Speaker 1: Know I never thought of that. I'd love to get one. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think also like the greatest, the greatest, one of

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Speaker 1: the greatest challenges for me anyway, the human experience is

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Speaker 1: apart from all the you know, doing life and paying

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Speaker 1: the bills and trying to maintain your body and all

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Speaker 1: of that, but is like this whole idea of trying

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Speaker 1: to understand me, you know, like Socrates said, the beginning

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Speaker 1: of wisdom is to know thyself. Right. It's like trying

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Speaker 1: to who the fuck am I? And like, who have

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Speaker 1: I mean? And this is part of my research, I guess,

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Speaker 1: but who am I for me? And who am I

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Speaker 1: for Lilian? And who am I for Tiff? And who

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Speaker 1: am I for the audience? And for my mum and dad?

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Speaker 1: And and like who am I? You know when you

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Speaker 1: kind of open that that I'm trying to understand me

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Speaker 1: for me, and I'm trying to understand the me experience

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Speaker 1: for others. You know, what's the overlap or what's the

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Speaker 1: you know, the connect or disconnection in the middle of

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Speaker 1: all that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think part of that also also going back

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Speaker 2: to Socrates because I I'm like a quote of his

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Speaker 2: too that I didn't get much when I as a teenager,

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Speaker 2: but I get now. Is that wisdom is when you

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Speaker 2: admit that you know nothing something along those lines I comparaphrasing,

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Speaker 2: but that idea of being comfortable with uncertainty, like you're

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Speaker 2: not going to have all the answers even with when

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Speaker 2: you're evaluating yourself, and you're not definitely not going to

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Speaker 2: know what everyone thinks of you, So how do you

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Speaker 2: manage that? I think that's a really important one. I

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Speaker 2: think the inability to manage uncertainty has caused a lot

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Speaker 2: of issues, including you know, anxiety and depression and stress.

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Speaker 1: And that's a problem because the world is uncertain. Life

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Speaker 1: is unsaved exactly. Relationships are uncertain, careers are I mean,

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Speaker 1: the human experiences is on a level is uncertain. Like

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Speaker 1: we you know, I've had friends that I loved that

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Speaker 1: were healthy and fit and died, you know quite quickly

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Speaker 1: that you know, and you know, I know that's very dark,

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Speaker 1: but it's true. It's like we don't know. We don't

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Speaker 1: know if we're going to be here next week, we

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Speaker 1: don't know, if you know. There are so many things

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Speaker 1: that and I think that this is not the right word,

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Speaker 1: you'll correct me. But the addiction that we have, or

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Speaker 1: the predisposition that we have to need certainty and need

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Speaker 1: predictability and need familiarity in a world that is largely

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Speaker 1: none of that, right, That's that's it. Like if you

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Speaker 1: can't if you can't improvise, adapt, overcome, survive, thrive, figured out,

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Speaker 1: solve problems, and you're a human today in the world,

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Speaker 1: you're going to struggle because life is largely about figuring,

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Speaker 1: sit out in real time and solving problems.

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Speaker 2: And I completely agree, and I think that a lot

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Speaker 2: of people struggle because they have unrealistic expectations of life

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Speaker 2: and of themselves. Yes, and that leads them to kind

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Speaker 2: of believe like that they need things for instance, that

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Speaker 2: they really don't, or they have to be something or

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Speaker 2: someone that you know, they don't actually have to be. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of people struggle with that.

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Speaker 1: We're doing a thing at the moment. Shout out to

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Speaker 1: all my peeps who are doing the seven day Kickstart.

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Speaker 1: I don't know when this will go up, it might

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Speaker 1: be on the last day, but we're doing a thing

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Speaker 1: Doc and Tiff Knows just called the typ seven day kickstart.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. My idea was because obviously we're banging on about

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Speaker 1: theory as we're doing today, which is what all podcasts starts,

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Speaker 1: just words, just conversations, which is good. Some are good,

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Speaker 1: some are not. Yeah, But like my idea was to

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Speaker 1: do something where we stop talking and we start doing

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Speaker 1: for a week. And obviously the talking is going on,

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Speaker 1: but and I just said, look, here's the thing. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to write some challenges, tasks, whatever you want to

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Speaker 1: call them. Five different areas, you know, some summer strength,

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Speaker 1: some are cardios, some are personal development, education, some are

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Speaker 1: about resilience, some are about cognitive training. Five different areas,

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Speaker 1: three you know, three options in each, blah blah blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah. Right, but what's really good is just the

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Speaker 1: fact that people are just jumping in and doing things

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Speaker 1: that are uncomfortable. And I'm like, I'm suggesting. I say

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Speaker 1: to them, Look, if one of the options is to

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Speaker 1: go for a five k walk jog and you do

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Speaker 1: that anyway, well, don't pick that. There's no growth in that.

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Speaker 1: In fact of the fifth there is. Every day, there's

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Speaker 1: fifteen different options in five different options over the seven days.

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Speaker 1: I said, I personally, if I was doing it, I

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Speaker 1: would look through that list and go, what's the thing

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Speaker 1: I really fucking do not want to do? And I

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Speaker 1: would do that one right now.

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Speaker 2: You're very rare, Craig, but that's what I would do.

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Speaker 1: That's where the value challenging yourself Like, but you go, well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like you have to. It's kind of two parts.

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Speaker 1: Do you want to build adaptability and resilience? Do you

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Speaker 1: do you want to be good under pressure? Do you

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Speaker 1: want to be able to deal with life and mess

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Speaker 1: and pain? Yes? I do? Well, guess what you have

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Speaker 1: to train? You're not accidentally going to build resilience and

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Speaker 1: capacity and cognitive flexibility, and you're not just going to

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Speaker 1: end up with that accidentally by choosing comfort. So we

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Speaker 1: want these things by you know, flexibility, resilience, but we

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Speaker 1: don't want to do the work to create that outcome.

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Speaker 1: And this is it's like when they're like, who wants

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Speaker 1: to be in shape? Everyone who wants to do the work.

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Speaker 1: No one who wants to help beating shit, No one

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Speaker 1: who wants to reduce their booze by half fucking no

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Speaker 1: one who wants to look amazing. Everyone, this is the problem.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, I really like I have been following your

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Speaker 2: seven days. In fact, I did challenge myself. It was

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Speaker 2: a knowledge one. I think it was about learn something

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Speaker 2: about thermogenesis.

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Speaker 1: I actually fucked up the words. I only saw it later.

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Speaker 1: I did a type by but it's called the thermic

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Speaker 1: Effective Food them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I did, and I did some research on it,

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Speaker 2: so now I'm a little bit more knowledgeable.

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Speaker 1: That's actually really interesting, not all calories.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, but I did what I did like

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Speaker 2: about your list. I liked how there's so many practical

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Speaker 2: options that people can choose from. But I really liked

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Speaker 2: the section that you included on I don't know what

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Speaker 2: you called it, but it was basically about distress tolerance,

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Speaker 2: like how do you tolerate discomfort? Like what you just.

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Speaker 1: Said, Yeah, resilience, that's a resilience.

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Speaker 2: A resilience one. Yeah. So in you know, I practice

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Speaker 2: a few different models of therapy, and one of them

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Speaker 2: is called dialectical behavior therapy, and there's a whole skills

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Speaker 2: section of that or portion of that treatments, and it's

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Speaker 2: one of the main groups of skills is called distress tolerance.

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Speaker 2: And it is really that ability to tolerate discomfort of

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Speaker 2: any kind, so most often internal discomfort, right feelings, thoughts,

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Speaker 2: but also behaviors, environment, circumstances, situations, people, And it's it

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Speaker 2: is a skill where we don't really learn, right, No

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Speaker 2: one's really teaching us how to do that. You might

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Speaker 2: learn passively, or you know, you might have models of

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Speaker 2: that behavior in your family, or something might have happened

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Speaker 2: that was distressing you saw how people dealt with it,

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Speaker 2: and you kind of learned through kind of social learning experiences.

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Speaker 2: But we're not really taught skills on how to deal

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Speaker 2: with distress. So I thought it was really nice and

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Speaker 2: that you had that as part of your list of things.

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Speaker 1: I think just the way that we want to train

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Speaker 1: our body. You know, it's like, do you want to

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Speaker 1: be strong and have good bone density and muscles that work?

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Speaker 1: And do you want to be sixty or seventy one

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Speaker 1: day and be able to get in and out of

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Speaker 1: a chair and pick up your grand kit? Yeah, everyone

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Speaker 1: says yes, you go cool, so, so work out consistently

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Speaker 1: so and if you don't love it, that's okay. You'll

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Speaker 1: love the results, you know, I love And what's his name?

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Speaker 1: Andrew Hubman talks about a part of the brain called

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Speaker 1: the anterior mid singulate cortex, which is essentially a part

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Speaker 1: of the brain that literally gets bigger, creates new neural pathways,

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Speaker 1: and we can see basically almost like a muscle getting bigger,

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Speaker 1: this part of the brain getting bigger when we do

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Speaker 1: hard things. Now, that hard thing could be going for

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Speaker 1: a run, or it could be having a conversation you

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Speaker 1: don't want to have, or it could be it could

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Speaker 1: be you know, you want to go to bed, there's

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Speaker 1: a sink full of dishes. You're like, fuck it, I'll

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Speaker 1: do it in the morning. And you're like, nah, I'll

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Speaker 1: just do it. So this part of the brain actually

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Speaker 1: physically grows and adapts when we do hard things. And

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Speaker 1: I love that idea that there's a comparative kind of

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Speaker 1: you know, training our body training our brain, and when

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Speaker 1: we you know, like the idea obviously of strength training

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Speaker 1: is literally working against resistance. Resistance training, you know, so

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Speaker 1: what do you do? You go do something hard. What's

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Speaker 1: the byproduct? Oh, I get stronger, I get better, I

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Speaker 1: get more functional, I'm a better version of me. Well fuck,

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Speaker 1: imagine if we took that idea and transferred it to

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Speaker 1: the mind or to the brain.

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Speaker 2: You know, it also works. And I really like that too,

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Speaker 2: and I've heard that it's also you know, taking that

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Speaker 2: even further. When you're doing a challenging thing over and

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Speaker 2: over and over, it's not challenging anymore. It's easy. Right,

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Speaker 2: So then you then you switch because you're not getting

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Speaker 2: that same growth and that work that I think that's

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Speaker 2: the same for But you know, when training your body

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Speaker 2: as well, you can't just do the same exercise forever.

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Speaker 2: You have to switch it up in order to get

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Speaker 2: the benefits.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's called progressive overload. And it's the same with

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Speaker 1: the mind. Yeah, exactly the same, exactly the same. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to ask you I had one which is a

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Speaker 1: bit of a left tangent, but okay, it's about self sabotage.

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Speaker 1: I feel like for a fair bit of my life

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Speaker 1: and probably still at times, I've gotten in my own

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Speaker 1: way like I've still I've done okay, I've done okay,

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Speaker 1: But there are times when I have really whether or

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Speaker 1: not it's been avoidance, or whether or not it's been

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Speaker 1: my lack of willingness to own up to my own

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Speaker 1: bullshit like self delusion, whether or not it's been laziness

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Speaker 1: or imposter syndrome. And Tiff and I have spoken about

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Speaker 1: this ad nauseum. But that and I even spoke about

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Speaker 1: last interview that we had or last chat that we

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Speaker 1: had with doctor Bill. I was talking about when I

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Speaker 1: was a kid. I was so insecure when I was

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Speaker 1: a young male, Like my goal wasn't to be attractive,

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Speaker 1: it was to look intimidating because I felt so weak.

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Speaker 1: I thought I just want to be fucking big and

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Speaker 1: terrifying looking. Not because I wanted to hurt anyone, but

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Speaker 1: I was so insecure. I thought I looked pissy, and

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Speaker 1: men don't want to look pissy. Well I didn't, you know,

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Speaker 1: So I think i'd love to know your take on,

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Speaker 1: you know, navigating these ideas and these patterns and these

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Speaker 1: habits that where we're essentially getting in our own way,

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Speaker 1: and what we can do about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I have lots of thoughts about this.

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Speaker 2: One of the first things that comes up for me

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Speaker 2: is this, It's a concept I used to call life blockers.

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Speaker 2: I think that's what you're kind of talking about. It's like,

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Speaker 2: what's the what's blocking you from doing what you want,

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Speaker 2: changing how you want, being who you want, blocking from

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Speaker 2: your goals? And I divided up kind of there are

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Speaker 2: so many things that can block you, and there's so

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Speaker 2: many things that can be obstacles, and I think that

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Speaker 2: they can come from within you and they can also

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Speaker 2: be outside of you. And so I'd say, like if

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Speaker 2: I was you know, if I if I'm talking to

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Speaker 2: someone who's self sabotaging or I'm thinking about it myself

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Speaker 2: for myself, I would be thinking, like, what are the

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Speaker 2: feelings that could be getting in the way, What are

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Speaker 2: the thoughts that I have that could be in thoughts

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Speaker 2: and beliefs that I have that could be getting in

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Speaker 2: the way, What are the behaviors that are getting in

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Speaker 2: the way, What are the relationships that might be getting

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Speaker 2: in the way, And what are the circumstances and situations

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Speaker 2: that might be getting in the way. And that includes

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Speaker 2: like physical issues that you might have or health issues,

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Speaker 2: and I think those kind of five categories really if

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Speaker 2: you're if you really think about those things, you'll find

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Speaker 2: that there's probably something from every category that's that's blocking you.

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Speaker 2: But usually something more salient will come out. You know,

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Speaker 2: is it that I am anxious about doing something new,

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Speaker 2: or is it that my thoughts are that it's impossible

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Speaker 2: to change at this age? Or is it because is

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Speaker 2: it my avoidance behaviors? You know what? Am I actually

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Speaker 2: my procrastinating a lot? Am I distracting? Am I isolating myself?

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Speaker 2: Am I you know escaping with alcohol or other substances?

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Speaker 2: Relationships we all know, like we all have different relationships

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Speaker 2: and some will be helpful on our way to change,

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Speaker 2: and others might not be not on purpose necessarily right,

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Speaker 2: like you might like if you think about, like something

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Speaker 2: that's really common when you become a new mother. You've

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Speaker 2: got a baby, that's a relationship, that's a relationship, so

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Speaker 2: that's going to get in the way of some things,

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Speaker 2: at least for a while, a little while, And even

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Speaker 2: though you might not be able to do anything about it,

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Speaker 2: I think it's helpful just to be aware and acknowledge

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Speaker 2: that that is a reality of your life right now. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and now can reduce some of the distress associated with

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Speaker 2: not being able to do what you want to do

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Speaker 2: or what you want to need.

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Speaker 1: I want to, I want to. I want to go

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Speaker 1: back to something you said, I want to go back

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Speaker 1: to relationships. So I've got a post I put up there.

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Speaker 1: I wrote it years ago, I put up here every

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Speaker 1: now and then, and it's about the friendship litmus test, right,

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Speaker 1: And my friendship litmus test is is my life better

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Speaker 1: with this person in it or out of it? Right now?

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Speaker 1: I know that's a bit brutal, but like the amount

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Speaker 1: of people over the years who have said to me

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Speaker 1: something like my friend there's you know, they basically tell

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Speaker 1: me how their friend backstabs them or treats them badly,

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Speaker 1: or is disrespectful or and I'm not talking about the

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Speaker 1: odd thing, right, I'm talking about consistently where their friend

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Speaker 1: in inverted commas doesn't treat them well and I go, hey,

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Speaker 1: lean into me. They're not a fucking friend. That's not

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Speaker 1: a friend, that's just a person. You know, Yeah, like

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Speaker 1: tell us about I know this is diverging a little bit,

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Speaker 1: but I think most people listening would have one person

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Speaker 1: in their life that they go if I could just

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Speaker 1: snap my fingers. And I'm not talking about family, I'm

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Speaker 1: not talking about relatives, I'm not talking about yarsband. But

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Speaker 1: in terms of friends, how do we how do we

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Speaker 1: untangle ourselves? I know there's no three step play, but

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Speaker 1: what do you think like in terms of like, for me,

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Speaker 1: this is my definition, let me know what you're like.

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Speaker 1: A toxic relationship or an unhealthy friendship is one where

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Speaker 1: it gives you, generally speaking, more stress and more anxiety

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Speaker 1: and more negative than positive. And there's a fair bit

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Speaker 1: of it. Like I'm not saying, oh, you and your

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Speaker 1: friends are going through a bit of shit at the moment,

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Speaker 1: you know, not that, but where they are consistently it's

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Speaker 1: a lopsided relationship and it's slopsided in their favor. How

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Speaker 1: do we or what do we do about that?

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Speaker 2: Well? I guess what I mean, I guess the first

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Speaker 2: question is, well, what need are they actually fulfilling for you,

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Speaker 2: because why are you still friends with this person?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think a lot of people are just scared

429
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,679
Speaker 1: to end it, like people are maybe like people have

430
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 1: fear around confronting someone going hey, I know we know

431
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: each other, but I actually don't want you in my

432
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: life as a friend because it's right. I just think,

433
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 1: why do we and we do? We tolerate it? How

434
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 1: many I'm not talking necessarily about intimate relationships, but how

435
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: many relationships which are unhealthy do people stay in because

436
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,679
Speaker 1: they associate more pain with ending it than staying in it.

437
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 1: It's like, oh fuck, it's not worth the drama.

438
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And look, sometimes that's true. I mean in some cases,

439
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 2: like we know, in a lot of you know, serious

440
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 2: domestic violence related relationships, it can be worse to leave

441
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 2: in that moment, right, So safety can be an issue.

442
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 2: But in general, for people who aren't in that situation,

443
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 2: I think we do. I mean everyone has a need

444
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 2: for love and belonging, and our relationships are the basis

445
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 2: of resilience in our lives, like the number one factor

446
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 2: in building resilience. But that need can be warped into

447
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 2: unhealthy and unhealthy need for approval from everyone. People pleasing

448
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 2: or passivity, like you're saying, I'm going to be a

449
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 2: passive person in this friendship. I'm just going to tolerate

450
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 2: them when they're around me. But like you said, you

451
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 2: might be too scared or anxious to have a real

452
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 2: conversation with the person about what the problem is, or

453
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 2: you might be too scared or anxious to just distance

454
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 2: yourself completely and a relationship. And I think everyone's everyone's

455
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 2: circumstances and situations are so different too, Like if you

456
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 2: don't have a lot of connections, then it might be

457
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: even it's highly probable that it would be even scarier,

458
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 2: even if that person isn't helpful in a lot of

459
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 2: ways in most ways, but they're like the only person

460
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 2: that's consistent in your life, yes, and they're not like

461
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 2: harming you in like a like you know, like a

462
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 2: very concrete way. It can be hard to let go

463
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 2: or something like that. So I feel like, yeah, it's really.

464
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's multifaceted, and there's no yeah, yeah, yeah, look

465
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 1: I get it. I totally get it. And the idea

466
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: of being yeah, I think sometimes for some people to

467
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: the idea of no relationship is more terrifying than a

468
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: bad relationship, so and I understand that. Yeah, it's it's

469
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a compromise. But I think I'm

470
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 1: weird because I've lived by myself forever, so I'm probably

471
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: too much the other way, I'm like, I'm unhealthy, And

472
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: what's the word. I'm probably atypically comfortable being by myself,

473
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: you know which. Again, but isn't it funny how you

474
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: can be in the middle of a million friendships and

475
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 1: feel lonely. Well, you can be relatively on your own

476
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: and not feel lone Like I never feel lonely, even

477
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: though I spend a lot of time alone. Yeah, but

478
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 1: I get But then I reckon if I was I

479
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 1: don't know, I wasn't me and I didn't have the

480
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,719
Speaker 1: access to all the people that I do, and I

481
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: didn't get you, some of my emotional and social needs

482
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: met through all the connections through this and all the

483
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: stuff I do. And I lived in the country by myself,

484
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: and it'd probably be different. I'd probably be lonely.

485
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's really important to understand that everyone

486
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: has kind of their own individual needs and circumstances and experiences.

487
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 2: But I mean, with the situation about whether you keep

488
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: or don't keep a friend. I mean we talked about that.

489
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 2: We could look at that in a life the life

490
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 2: block or framework as well, Like you can say, like, well,

491
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 2: what feelings are getting in the way of me doing

492
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 2: something about this, what thoughts are getting in the way,

493
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 2: what behaviors, what relationships, what circumstances. Then at least you

494
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: have like a level of awareness, and then you can

495
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 2: make a choice based on that, and that choice might

496
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 2: still be to keep the friend, but at least you're

497
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 2: making a conscious decision rather than being like this passive

498
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 2: you know person in your life. You're saying, I'm choosing this.

499
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 2: I know this person is unhealthy for me in abc

500
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 2: D ways, but I've also evaluated it based on these

501
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 2: you know, circumstances or or these beliefs that I have,

502
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 2: and so I'm choosing to continue with this relationship for now.

503
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 2: I think that's really important to have like agency, that

504
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 2: you're not just on this passive ride letting someone else

505
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: dictate you know, your life and who you spend time with.

506
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 2: That you're actually making a conscious choice, even if it's

507
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 2: not necessarily the healthiest one moment.

508
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, So almost like doing a cost benefit analysis and

509
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: then gone, mm hmm, I'll stay for now.

510
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 2: Well that's pros and cons. But I feel like this

511
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 2: is more about self awareness. This is more like, why

512
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 2: am I choosing to be friends with this person?

513
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: Yeah?

514
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, there's a level of they're the only person

515
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 2: in my life right now. There's a level of I

516
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 2: know what to expect. There's no surprises with this person.

517
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 2: I have a core belief that you you, you know,

518
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 2: keep at it with your friends, and you know things

519
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 2: can get better. Like there there are things that you know,

520
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 2: values and you know other there's a lot there are

521
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 2: a lot of factors that will play a part in

522
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 2: those decisions, but not knowing what they are is just

523
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 2: living blindly and you know. Then then it's called self sabotage,

524
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 2: which is quite a vague term and quite judgmental and blaming,

525
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 2: rather than oh no, I've I've actually looked at this,

526
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 2: and I know why I'm making this choice, this choice.

527
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: Do you think? I think the way that we get

528
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: into let's talk about relationships now. The way that we

529
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: get into relationships is interesting because I feel like when

530
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: one of your goals this year, my goal in twenty

531
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: twenty five is to meet my life partner or you know,

532
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, is that a good goal that seems

533
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: fraught with danger? Like or to I mean literally, I

534
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: know many have known many people over the years, so

535
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: like the top of their to do list was to

536
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: get married. I'm like, wow, when that's like your priority

537
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: and you're not even in a relationship at this point

538
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: in time, I don't know that you're going to start

539
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: that potential marriage on the best foot because you're going

540
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: to be somewhat compromised in like, because you care more

541
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: about being married than finding the person that is the

542
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: best person for you. Maybe you know, is good? Is

543
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: it a good goal? Or is it I don't know.

544
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 2: I mean I think it's it's again, it's so it's

545
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 2: quite I know, marriage seems like it's a concrete thing,

546
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 2: but it's not. Really What does marriage mean to you? Like,

547
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 2: it means something different to everybody. For some people, it

548
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 2: means that they'll be approved of, you know, like a

549
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 2: lot of you know, mostly women unfortunately, but people if

550
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 2: they're not married by a certain age, they feel like

551
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 2: society is looking down on them. So it's not even

552
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: like the goal isn't really about marriage, it's about feeling

553
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 2: good enough or worthy or valued. So I think it's

554
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 2: like really thinking about what your goals actually mean. What?

555
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: What is it? Why do you want that? That's where

556
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 2: Why is I think important important and important question to

557
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 2: ask yourself? What does it mean to me? How will

558
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 2: my life be different?

559
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah? How old is marriage? Tif? Can you? Can

560
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: you google that? Can you? How long is the institution

561
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: of marriage? Like, so we've been around for three hundred

562
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: thousand years as a species, give or take. How long?

563
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: How old is marriage? I wonder in terms of as

564
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: a cultural norm in the way that what's your guess, doc,

565
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: what's your guess?

566
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:29,719
Speaker 2: Oh, gosh, I don't know. Ten thousand years? I don't know.

567
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would have said around that too, I don't know,

568
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: Like when the what do you got? Tiff?

569
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 4: The word marriage comes from Middle English and was first

570
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 4: seen in nineteen fifty to thirteen hundred CE.

571
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,479
Speaker 3: I don't even know what that means.

572
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: That means basically that's the new term for BC before.

573
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 2: So not that long, man, like four thousand years, three thousand?

574
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: How long has this marriage been in existence? Thousands of years? Yeah?

575
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: Twenty three fifty okay, so four and a half thousand years.

576
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: That's not long if you think we've been around for

577
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: two to three hundred thousand years as a species modern man,

578
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: modern man. Yeah, that's yeah, I will Yeah, So.

579
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 2: Why did you ask the question? What were you? What was? Well?

580
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: I was just like, you're it's interesting when you say, yeah,

581
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: but what does it mean? I'm like, that's actually a

582
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: fucking good question. What does it mean? And I'm not

583
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: by the way people think because I'm not married, but

584
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: I'm definitely not anti marriage. Most of my friends are married,

585
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: my parents are married, my all my best mates are

586
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: married and happily married. Like there's it's disproportionately successful for

587
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 1: my for the people in my world.

588
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 2: So yeah, and I think the meaning of marriage would

589
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,760
Speaker 2: have changed over time, and it's definitely different and different

590
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 2: even now in different cultures too, like history of marriage

591
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,800
Speaker 2: just being like basically a deal, you know, like a

592
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 2: deal between families, and so that's not that's not a

593
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 2: belonging need, that's like a safety and security need. That's

594
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 2: something different like we think about. Yeah, so.

595
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: Chiefs definitely wants to say something I do.

596
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 4: In our culture in Australia and similar cultures, isn't it

597
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 4: funny how marriage would have to be probably one of

598
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 4: the biggest aspects of a person's life. And it's one

599
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 4: of the only things I can think of right now

600
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 4: where you get no guidance, no training, no education, and

601
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 4: no coaching or and you're just off you go out

602
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 4: figure it out like you be coaching, You get education,

603
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 4: you get everything else in your life that you have

604
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 4: to go and do and achieve.

605
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 3: You you get some structure around it.

606
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean really we get our knowledge, you know,

607
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 2: our knowledge or information about the marriage and those kinds

608
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 2: of relationships through what we see and around us, like

609
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 2: what we experience ourselves in our lives, and also like

610
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 2: models and you know, pop culture might maybe like television,

611
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 2: like there's lots of models for relationships, but it's usually

612
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 2: you're right, like, usually no one's really seeking relationship counseling

613
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 2: until there's a problem. I mean, look in some actually,

614
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:37,399
Speaker 2: in some cases people do seek marriage counseling or kind

615
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 2: of education and relationships before marriage, and some like churches

616
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 2: and things. I think that there are some requirements or

617
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 2: nudges towards like having chats before you actually get married

618
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 2: and having those kind of conversations about what your values

619
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 2: are and what your goals are, and you know your

620
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 2: differences and but probably on the whole in those people

621
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 2: aren't doing that.

622
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 1: All right, I've got a pop quiz for you too.

623
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: You're not allowed to neither of you allowed to use

624
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 1: your computer, not allowed to use your computer. Divorce rates

625
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: in the United States? What percentage of all marriages and

626
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: then divorce.

627
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 3: Tiff I'm going to go sixty percent.

628
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: Well, says here, forty to fifty so yeah, and then okay, UK,

629
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: the UK forty, yeah, forty two, very good, TIF Australia

630
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: sixty forty forty Canada blah blah blah. I'll tell you

631
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 1: what's interesting. Both you India have a.

632
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 4: Guess eighty percent. No, would be a lot less, so

633
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 4: I mean eighty percent successful.

634
00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 2: Twenty you're saying, yeah, the lan what's your guess. I

635
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 2: think I'll go with Tiffany on that one.

636
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 1: India one to two percent.

637
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 4: Oh really, it's really interesting when I was there talking

638
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 4: about arranged marriages versus marrying for love, and it's real

639
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 4: eye opening in it.

640
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I found it really interesting.

641
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, he's got for an agreement and it's based

642
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 4: on values and respect and it actually tends to Funnily enough,

643
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 4: the lady I had the conversation with divorced and came

644
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 4: and married someone for love, but she said it can

645
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 4: be a better arrangement.

646
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and well, I think it's really we can come

647
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 2: up with all sorts of interpretations for that, right. It's

648
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 2: like one is potentially getting married for reasons other than

649
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 2: love might make your marriage last long, or that could

650
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 2: be an interpretation. But it could also be that it's

651
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 2: so frowned upon in society that people are afraid to

652
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 2: leave their relationships, or it's maybe really difficult in terms

653
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 2: of if you are a divorced person, particularly women, I

654
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 2: would imagine what the circumstances of your life would be

655
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:17,399
Speaker 2: after that. So yeah, I don't know what accounts. That's

656
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 2: very low, that's shockingly low.

657
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 1: That's a good point though. Culturally and also religiously, Like

658
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: when I was young and I was super churchy, I

659
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: was in a church where you pretty much you don't

660
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: get divorced, Like, yes, it's not an option. I mean

661
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:38,800
Speaker 1: it technically is, but if you get divorced, you're pretty

662
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: much out of the religion, you're out of the church,

663
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: and so you know, and people would get married super

664
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: young because there was no sex before marriage, and so

665
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: you know, people wanted to root so that'd get married

666
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: at twenty I was engaged at twenty one in that church.

667
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 1: Did you do you know that?

668
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:00,720
Speaker 2: Tip?

669
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 3: I did?

670
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 2: I did?

671
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: I was engaged at twenty one, and shout out to

672
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 1: my ex fiance. She dodged a bullet by missing me.

673
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: Fuck how lucky is she? I would have been a

674
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 1: fucking nightmare. Imagine marrying me. So God intervened and saved

675
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: her from me. So well done her. But yeah, it's

676
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: but even me ending the engagement, fuck, that did not

677
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: That wasn't a good puff. That was pretty much the

678
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: That's pretty much the closing of the door me. Yeah.

679
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 2: So yeah, so you can see why a lot of

680
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 2: people wouldn't have made that decision. Yes, it's uneven for

681
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 2: a need for belonging to that to a marriage, it's

682
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 2: need for belonging to a whole group.

683
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:51,760
Speaker 1: Yeah people, Yeah, yeah, oh one. And it's like and also,

684
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: I guess if you grow up in a religious or

685
00:40:56,080 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: cultural or you know whatever cognitive parad on that says

686
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: this is okay, you get married, then you don't get unmarried,

687
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: and that's really hard wired into your operating system, then

688
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: you just go, well, you just sold you're on. I mean,

689
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,320
Speaker 1: I know, I know lots of older people who like,

690
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 1: doesn't matter that the marriage is shit. It's like not

691
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: being together. That's not even a question. It's like, no,

692
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 1: this is just how it is. It's like, we're not

693
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: meant to be happy forever. So what are you talking about?

694
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 2: How? Yeah, these core beliefs that are passed down, you know,

695
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 2: like from wherever, whether it's your family or society or

696
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 2: a church or you know, they're internalized when you're young,

697
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 2: and you just then you decide, we're meant to decide

698
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 2: whether you want to maintain those beliefs. But a lot

699
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 2: of people don't, like you said, they don't reflect on

700
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 2: those things. They just live their life that way and

701
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:55,240
Speaker 2: they're like, well, these are just the rules of life.

702
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 2: It's like, well they were somebody else's rules for life.

703
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 2: They don't actually have to be yours. But that can

704
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 2: be a really hard thing for people to grasp if

705
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,479
Speaker 2: they've been living that way for so long.

706
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: Well you don't. That's interesting is when you grow up

707
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 1: in essentially you know, an echo chamber of thoughts or

708
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: an echo chamber of belief or theology or whatever. You

709
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 1: you don't know that it's not it's not the way,

710
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: it's just our way. It's like, no, this is not

711
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: the objective reality. This is just the reality of this

712
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 1: group that I'm in, right. But it's like you confuse

713
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 1: the thing that happens with your story about the thing

714
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,879
Speaker 1: that happens, and you don't. It's you know, when you're

715
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: in the middle of something like I think Stephen Covey

716
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 1: Seven Habits of Highly Affective People, he said, essentially, you

717
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: can't be objective about the thing you're in the middle of,

718
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: you know, And he was talking about business he's talked

719
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: about or was that a different book, but anyway, the

720
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: principle was you can't work on the e myth that

721
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 1: was you can't work on the business and in the business.

722
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: And it's like so true when you're in the middle

723
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 1: of anything, you know, a relationship or a group or

724
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 1: even some kind of process, and then for whatever reason,

725
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 1: you temporarily get out of that and you're like, oh, oh,

726
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: it's like I reckon if you had a bit of

727
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: that when you went to India. It's like all of

728
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 1: a sudden, you're out of your life. I mean, you're

729
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: still in your life, but you're out of your routine.

730
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: You're away from the gym, you're away from people, you're

731
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 1: away from your normal environment and operating system, and now

732
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: you're in a different place mentally, emotionally, and geographically, and

733
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 1: you're like, ah, and you can see shit in India

734
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 1: about your life in Australia that you didn't see in Australia.

735
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 2: Yeah.

736
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like there's a level of perspective that you cannot

737
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 1: have unless you basically get away from where you are,

738
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: either literally or metaphorically.

739
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. Put yourself in it with new people,

740
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 2: new circumstances.

741
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. That's like one of the one of

742
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: my challenges now back to our seven day kickstart is

743
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 1: basically hanging out with people who aren't like you, Like

744
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: I have conversations with people who don't believe what you believe, Like,

745
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:21,919
Speaker 1: stop hanging around people who tell you you'll right right.

746
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 2: And I also think like the message of you know,

747
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 2: there there is on there's my way, right, there's this way.

748
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 2: It's not just in like what we were talking about before,

749
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 2: like in you know, particular groups or a societies or

750
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 2: churches or whatever, Like we're fed that line a lot,

751
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 2: like this is the way, this is the way to

752
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 2: be healthy, this is the way to lose weight. This

753
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 2: is it's like this is the one formula in the

754
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 2: one way, and it's like, well, no, it's that's not true.

755
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 2: There's lots of ways, and there's also going to be

756
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 2: ways that work specifically for you that might not work

757
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,720
Speaker 2: for the next person. So there's like your personalized way

758
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 2: as well, and understanding what that is is what's important,

759
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 2: which is another reason why I like your seven day

760
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 2: thing because it's giving people so many options. Yes, and

761
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 2: because and if you can practice lots of different skills,

762
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 2: yes and behaviors, then you get to understand, well, what

763
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 2: are the things that work best for you and continue

764
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 2: to do those things. And that list is going to

765
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,720
Speaker 2: be so different from You've got what hundreds of people

766
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 2: doing this, and their list is going to be different.

767
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 2: They're not going to be all doing the same thing.

768
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 1: And you think we have thousands of people listen to

769
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: this chat right now, well not right now, but when

770
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 1: they hear it, and everyone's getting something different.

771
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 4: Right.

772
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 1: But speaking of when you're saying this is the way,

773
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:58,919
Speaker 1: like in the New Testament, Jesus literally says I am

774
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: the way, I am the way, the truth and the life.

775
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 1: Nobody comes to the Father but by me. Right, So

776
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,359
Speaker 1: I grew up going, oh, this is it. And it's

777
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 1: not like sorry for dumping that scripture on you everybody.

778
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: But you know, like when you grow up in that

779
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:17,720
Speaker 1: echo chamber of theology and belief and Christianity in my case,

780
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: or you know, Buddhism or Judaism or whatever ism you

781
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: grow up in, right, you don't think, oh, this is

782
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 1: just our philosophy but it could be wrong. You go, yeah, no,

783
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 1: this is this is how it is because you're never

784
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: presented with another option like you're And this is the

785
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: beauty of conversations like this, where we are just going, look,

786
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 1: we don't actually know how it all works. I mean,

787
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: the three of us are you know, probably not stupid,

788
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 1: let's hope, but we're still figuring it out, like you don't.

789
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 1: You know, I'm still trying to figure out how humans work.

790
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: And I'm reasonably knowledgeable and I've done a lot of shit,

791
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: but there's way more that I don't know than I do,

792
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: you know, and I think that being able to say, listen,

793
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: this is what I've been programmed and taught and told

794
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: and trained to believe. But I don't know if that's true.

795
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 1: That's just what I've been taught and told and trained,

796
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 1: and that's okay. But I think, like with me, it

797
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: took me a very long time to not feel guilty

798
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 1: and to not feel like a bad human for even

799
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 1: questioning all the shit I've been programmed with.

800
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 2: And it's not and yes, and it's not even only guilt,

801
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 2: it's anxiety because it's very compelling to have someone say

802
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 2: this is the certainty of life. You just do this

803
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 2: and you'll be fine. These are the steps. People want certainty.

804
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 2: They do, and they want control, and they want approval,

805
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 2: and you get all of that, you know, if someone

806
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 2: just says, follow my way, these are the right steps.

807
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 2: Do this and this outcome will be a certainty for you.

808
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 1: But the cost, the cost of that is you are

809
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: strongly discouraged from thinking for yourself. Right, We're going to

810
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: teach you what to think, not how to think, so

811
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 1: you don't have to use your brain. Tip you're going

812
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: to be in my cult, you don't even need to

813
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: fucking think. You just need to comply and conform and

814
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 1: you can be a member. But I don't want you

815
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 1: to ask any questions because we don't have questions. Here,

816
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: we just have compliance and that's pretty much the you know,

817
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:41,959
Speaker 1: and I'm making a bit of fun, but that ain't

818
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: too far from the truth for most religions and virtually

819
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 1: every cult.

820
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's I mean, yes, And people have to make

821
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:55,760
Speaker 2: a decision about what kind of life they want. And again,

822
00:48:55,840 --> 00:49:01,280
Speaker 2: if that's made with awareness, like you're conscious making a choice,

823
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 2: you know that there are other options and ways of

824
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,919
Speaker 2: thinking and believing, Like you can't not know that now

825
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 2: in our society, like forty years ago, fifty years ago,

826
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 2: fair enough, like it's much harder to understand that there's

827
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 2: other ways of thinking and believing. But now we're e

828
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 2: supposed to a lot. If you have that awareness and

829
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 2: you still choose, you know, the path that you choose,

830
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 2: then you're doing that with conscious awareness, and you're choosing

831
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 2: a particular kind of life. It does mean, though, that

832
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 2: you won't have as much cognitive flexibility. You might not

833
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 2: be able to tolerate distress as much because there, like

834
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 2: you said, life is about uncertainty and having a lack

835
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 2: of control. Whether you believe it is or isn't, it

836
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 2: actually is that way, So there might be some costs

837
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 2: to choosing whatever path you choose. But the cost of

838
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 2: choosing a path of like uncertainty is that you will

839
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:06,280
Speaker 2: feel uncomfortable a lot. But then you just you learned

840
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 2: skills to deal with that, and now that's what makes

841
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 2: you resilient and empathic.

842
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 1: And when you can become comfortable in the middle of discomfort,

843
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 1: you're doing all right. I've got a question for both

844
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 1: of you. Then we're going to wind up. So I'm

845
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: going to start with you, Doc, and then TIF give

846
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: you somethink time. So for me, there's twenty different examples

847
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 1: of an answer to this question. But what was a

848
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: belief that you had when you were younger, maybe a

849
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,720
Speaker 1: really strong belief that you had when you were younger

850
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 1: that you've either done a one eighty on or you've

851
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: replaced that belief with something else, or you're now unsure

852
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 1: about that thing you used to be sure about. Is

853
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 1: there any particular belief for you, Doc, something that was

854
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: very influential or powerful on planet you when you're a

855
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 1: kid or a young adult.

856
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 2: I mean, something comes to mind. I mean, the first

857
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 2: thing was a funny answer, but I'll tell you that second.

858
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 2: The one that comes to mind is kind of I

859
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 2: think when I was a child, I had this sense

860
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 2: of if I, if I show I'm not allowed for

861
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,439
Speaker 2: people to know that I don't know something, right, Right,

862
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 2: So I'm going to say styling, I'm going to say

863
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 2: silent if I don't know, and I'll always raise my

864
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 2: hand to answer a question if I do and thinking

865
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:33,280
Speaker 2: that you know, obviously. Now it's more like the most

866
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 2: confident people are the ones that can say they don't

867
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 2: know something.

868
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:37,839
Speaker 1: Yes, right.

869
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 2: So yeah, So I feel like that's or a massive

870
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 2: shift that I would have had from being, you know,

871
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 2: a young person to now when I teach you know

872
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 2: people over the years, whether it's a client or a

873
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 2: student in psychology about being able to change thoughts and beliefs,

874
00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 2: the picture is Santa Claus, right, you know, like we

875
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 2: all can change our thoughts and beliefs, with a lot

876
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 2: of us who've grown up in the Western world believed

877
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 2: in Santa Claus at one point in time and now

878
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,320
Speaker 2: we don't. Yeah, yeah, it's possible.

879
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a bunch, tiff. What about you? I think.

880
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 4: Like I used to think that you could either do

881
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 4: something or you couldn't, and that only changed for me

882
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 4: when I won that first fight at twenty nine and

883
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:33,840
Speaker 4: I remember the penny dropping and just going you can

884
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 4: perceive yourself as shit at something and learn anything that

885
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 4: you want to learn.

886
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 3: It just it changed my world.

887
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,720
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, great, I like that one.

888
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 1: There's so many stories like that where people do something

889
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:49,839
Speaker 1: like the boxing was great, you want to fight, that's great.

890
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 1: It's not even about the boxing. It's about the understanding

891
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:57,399
Speaker 1: of your own ability and self awareness and well, if

892
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: I can do this, what else can I do? Like

893
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 1: there's so many people that I trained for a half

894
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,280
Speaker 1: marathon or a marathon or and then the run's great,

895
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 1: but it's like, all of a sudden, there's this massive

896
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:11,840
Speaker 1: internal shift, like with.

897
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 4: You, yeah, especially when you go I'm the shittest at this.

898
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 4: The whole time you think that, and then you do

899
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 4: it anyway, and then you don't die, and then you know,

900
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 4: in some cases you win, like you win and you go, oh,

901
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 4: what I think about me doesn't actually matter along the way.

902
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 1: I like that one too for me, Like this is

903
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 1: very different. But from when I was about eight or

904
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 1: nine and I was on the gym floor and then

905
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 1: I started peeteeing at at twenty one twenty two, and

906
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:46,359
Speaker 1: then probably it took till I was about thirty five

907
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:50,720
Speaker 1: where I realized the food pyramid was bullshit. Some people

908
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: still don't realize, by the way, but I remember maybe

909
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 1: thirty five, even forty, I had to go, hey, everyone, yeah,

910
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 1: got it wrong, got it wrong. You know, I know,

911
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: I told you this hours wrong. Sorry, you know. And

912
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 1: I thought that what I'd been taught and told and

913
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 1: trained that that was the best science. And then we

914
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 1: figured out that that's not the best science. And at

915
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 1: some stage you've either got to double down and go

916
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 1: all this new science is bullshit food pyramids where it's at,

917
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:27,479
Speaker 1: or you go ah, you know. And for me, it's

918
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: like I really didn't want to, but I couldn't operate

919
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 1: with integrity and keep telling people to do this thing

920
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 1: that I knew wasn't optimal. Right. But out of that,

921
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: I'm like and I didn't lose my job and I

922
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:44,279
Speaker 1: didn't lose my brand, and people didn't hate me, and

923
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 1: people were like more interested than they were angry at me.

924
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, why what's I went, well, there's all

925
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 1: this and you know, by the way, guess how they

926
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 1: came up with a food pyramid. Guess how that got developed.

927
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: Guess who funded it? Guess you know, there's all this

928
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 1: super int story around the development of this idea that

929
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:08,240
Speaker 1: low fat eating equals low fat people, which it fucking doesn't,

930
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, that for me was a revelation

931
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 1: when I owned up to something that I was really

932
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 1: embarrassed about. But the outcome was positive, not negative.

933
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean there should always be room for new

934
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 2: knowledge and new learning and you know, and well being

935
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 2: in psychology, especially in mental health. I mean, nothing's one

936
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 2: hundred percent proven. Like you're always always learning and trying

937
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 2: to keep up with the latest research to make sure

938
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:40,759
Speaker 2: that what you're saying is accurate and helpful and healthy and.

939
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 1: Also capacity to unlearn because one of one of the

940
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 1: problems for us humans doc is and you know this,

941
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 1: the thing that we believe is intertwined with our identity.

942
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,760
Speaker 1: So if you question what I believe, or you question

943
00:55:55,960 --> 00:56:00,399
Speaker 1: my philosophy, then you're questioning me and fuck you. Yeah,

944
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 1: you know that's the thing where you go. I don't

945
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:05,439
Speaker 1: want to be too intertwined with any idea or any

946
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 1: philosophy or any theology or any anything, because if I'm

947
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:11,919
Speaker 1: too if it is me and I am it, then

948
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 1: how can I be teachable? If unless people are basically

949
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:20,359
Speaker 1: endorsing what I already think. Yeah, you know so many

950
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 1: good questions. Hey, where can people connect with you and

951
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 1: find you and follow you?

952
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 2: How about you go to my website, which is doctor

953
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:37,399
Speaker 2: Lillianna dot com. That's a good spot to connect. And yeah,

954
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,800
Speaker 2: if you need anything or interested in any particular topic,

955
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 2: feel free to shoot me an email. You can do

956
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 2: that through the saite.

957
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 1: If I ever go to bed and I'm anxious, I'm

958
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 1: going to ring you and just get you to ring

959
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:49,720
Speaker 1: me read me a book, because.

960
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,280
Speaker 3: You can just listen to this podcast apps.

961
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I keep interrupting. It's like I'm fingernails on

962
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:00,360
Speaker 1: the blackboard. She's like, she's like, I don't know, honey,

963
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,799
Speaker 1: just pouring off a fucking I don't know. It's just

964
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: the best voice ever. Oh you're so kind, But it's true, though,

965
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 1: you have such a good voice for this stuff.

966
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 2: I do. I do have some Spotify stuff. If people

967
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 2: want to relax and listen to my voice, you can

968
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 2: go to Spotify and just put my name in. And

969
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 2: there's some things to help you sleep or to reduce

970
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 2: stress and anxiety. And I've just recorded three new albums,

971
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 2: but they're not out yet.

972
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 1: Well, may you tell me to Spotify tonight ten o'clock.

973
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 1: You're gonna lullew me to sleep. Well, say that sounded

974
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 1: a little bit creepy. We're gonna go to We're going

975
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 1: to go to bed. We're going to say goodbye. Speaking

976
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 1: of creepy, uh, you've just lost your ship over there.

977
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 1: Take that out. Take that out.