Speaker 1: From Schwartz Media. I'm Ashlin McGee. This is seven am.
Speaker 1: Here's a question for you. Can you place a value
Speaker 1: on lost cultural heritage, on separation from land and ancestors,
Speaker 1: and on families divided? It's not just a moral quandary,
Speaker 1: it's the question of cold hard cash. In Australian courts
Speaker 1: right now trying to work out just how much compensations
Speaker 1: owed to a group of traditional owners in WA's Pilbur Region.
Speaker 1: Hindabundi traditional owners have been locked in a long running
Speaker 1: legal battle with Andrew Forrest's Fortescue Metals Group and the
Speaker 1: WA government over what the Federal Court ruled was illegal
Speaker 1: mining on their land. Today contributor to the Saturday Paper,
Speaker 1: Ben Abbertangelo on the one billion dollar battle and the
Speaker 1: very personal toll that it's taken on those fighting it.
Speaker 1: It's Monday, May twenty seven. Ben, tell me about Yinjubundi
Speaker 1: Country and this small community of Najuana and the man
Speaker 1: you met there, Michael Woodley.
Speaker 2: So. Jinjubundi Country is located in the Pilber region of
Speaker 2: Western Australia.
Speaker 3: It is a very humble town with a big heart.
Speaker 2: It has got majestic hills and escarpments that are rich
Speaker 2: red colors. It's incredibly vast, like the whole of Western Australia,
Speaker 2: but the Pilber region itself is quite an expansive space,
Speaker 2: and in my mind it gets to the heart of
Speaker 2: the Australian story. It is a region that archives some
Speaker 2: of the earliest human thoughts. There is countless sites that
Speaker 2: map human occupation back ten, twenty thirty, forty fifty thousand years.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, what's interfacing with that is
Speaker 2: everything that we understand to be contemporary. It is the
Speaker 2: epicenter of resource extraction.
Speaker 3: It is where you know.
Speaker 2: The majority of the world's iron ore is extracted from.
Speaker 2: There is offshore gas being plundered out of the waterways,
Speaker 2: and it gets to, I suppose, the heart of that
Speaker 2: ancient eternity clashing with the contemporary realities of.
Speaker 3: Modernity kind of got awa.
Speaker 2: So I first met Michael Woodley towards the end of
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. He's a senior Indi Bundy lawman and the
Speaker 2: CEO of the Inji Bundy Aboriginal Corporation, which is the
Speaker 2: prescribed body corporate to represent the interests of the Inju
Speaker 2: Bandy people. Mate, it's so good to reconnect and it's
Speaker 2: just been a.
Speaker 3: Privilege to Yeah, you're just a remarkable man. Oh thank you.
Speaker 3: I'm for letting on things as well.
Speaker 4: Right for your for your for your using.
Speaker 2: It was fortunate enough to speak with Michael he was
Speaker 2: zigzagging around town. Was fortunate enough to get some of
Speaker 2: his time to hear about his reflections. And I say
Speaker 2: this because for most Australians that are aware of who
Speaker 2: he is, is known because he's been the person that
Speaker 2: has stood up to Andrew Forrest.
Speaker 1: Okay, and so how did Michael Woodley become this guy
Speaker 1: who's known for battling Andrew Forrest and his enormous mining interests.
Speaker 2: So Andrew Forrest is I think he's held up in
Speaker 2: the Australian imagination as a great Australian bloke with a twenty.
Speaker 3: Billion dollar fortune.
Speaker 2: Andrew Forest is one of Australia's richest people and as
Speaker 2: the founder of mining giant for Tescue, he's been a
Speaker 2: key business figure for decades. But that wealth that Andrew
Speaker 2: Forrest has accrued, that has transformed him into Australia's richest man.
Speaker 2: The bedrock of that is exploitation of Aboriginal people's country,
Speaker 2: and specifically the Indie Bandy people's country.
Speaker 1: I've belaid it one message I give, and I've been
Speaker 1: giving this ever since I became a businessman.
Speaker 3: The more you know Ooriginal people, the more you love it.
Speaker 2: The crux of the story is that Andrew Forrest and
Speaker 2: Fortescue Metals Group in the early two thousands wanted to
Speaker 2: develop Injubandi people's country.
Speaker 3: The problem for them was.
Speaker 2: That the Injured Bandy had already received Native title status,
Speaker 2: so for Fortescue to legally start developing on their country
Speaker 2: under Native title laws, they had to broker an agreement.
Speaker 2: So Michael Woodley and Andrew Forrest met in a small
Speaker 2: Roburan youth center where Andrew Forrest marched in seeking to
Speaker 2: broker that agreement with Michael Woodley. Now, what Andrew Forrest
Speaker 2: came to the table with was essentially a fixed payment
Speaker 2: of roughly zero point zero five seven percent of the
Speaker 2: mind's income. And for context, we're talking about a development
Speaker 2: that would last decades, that would churn out tens of
Speaker 2: billions of dollars. So when Michael Woodley refused to sign
Speaker 2: onto that agreement.
Speaker 3: We read your agreement. We understand your agreement and could
Speaker 3: be prayed with you as.
Speaker 2: Craft right, which he would also if he was to
Speaker 2: do so, would be signing away. You know, scores of
Speaker 2: sacred sites would be signing away. You know, really integral
Speaker 2: important pieces of Jinjibarne country that are central to their mythology,
Speaker 2: to their existence, to their sustainment.
Speaker 3: But there's a big issue. An issue comes with you know,
Speaker 3: anybody people looking.
Speaker 1: After ourselves from the country that make a new bridgie,
Speaker 1: so your share elders.
Speaker 2: And your investors. So Michael Woodley was seeking a five
Speaker 2: percent uncapped rate and when you know, those talks broke down,
Speaker 2: it triggered a sprawling legal battle that has gone on
Speaker 2: for now close to fifteen years.
Speaker 1: Then how did it even become a legal battle? So
Speaker 1: how did fourdescu medals come to push ahead without approval
Speaker 1: from the native titleholders?
Speaker 2: Yeah, an important thing for this conversation is that a
Speaker 2: lot of people have an understanding that native title is
Speaker 2: land rights.
Speaker 3: It's not.
Speaker 2: Native title doesn't give traditional owner groups a riter veto.
Speaker 2: It doesn't enable them to say no to those that
Speaker 2: want to develop their country.
Speaker 3: It just gives them a statutory.
Speaker 2: Timeline to negotiate with those companies and forces them into
Speaker 2: coming to an agreement. So I suppose a really key
Speaker 2: point here is that not only did they proceed with
Speaker 2: the operations without authority without that agreement, they also look
Speaker 2: to finance a breakaway group.
Speaker 4: This meeting, held in March last year, revealed the bitter
Speaker 4: divide between Michael Woodley's group, which opposes the project, and
Speaker 4: a breakaway group of landowners.
Speaker 1: Okay, well we're going to luck vote motion. I think
Speaker 1: the hands of those who support this motion of big
Speaker 1: up five.
Speaker 4: The meeting was ugly and physical. The breakaway group claimed
Speaker 4: to have won a vote by this show of hands,
Speaker 4: enabling them to negotiate directly with Fortescue. It was a
Speaker 4: big win for Twiggy Forest.
Speaker 3: And Fordescue just pushed ahead with their plans.
Speaker 2: In twenty thirteen, Fortescue opened its first Solomon mind Fire
Speaker 2: tale on the Indie Bandy people's country without an agreement,
Speaker 2: without their consent, that's bending reality and fundamentally, in my mind,
Speaker 2: that's what has enabled Fortescue Metals Group to turn out
Speaker 2: close to fifty billion dollars of profit without ever paying
Speaker 2: a cent to the people whose.
Speaker 3: Land their mining. But interestingly, in the courts.
Speaker 2: In twenty seventeen, the Federal Court reaffirmed that the Indie
Speaker 2: Bundi people had exclusive possession over that country. So that
Speaker 2: sprawling battle has culminated now in this compensation claim being lodged,
Speaker 2: in which the Federal Court will continue to commence hearings
Speaker 2: and likely hand down its verdict at the end of
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: I think one way of describing this is a sort
Speaker 1: of David and Goliath battle, which is a bit of
Speaker 1: a lazy comparison, But I just wonder how Michael Woodley
Speaker 1: sees this fight.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I asked Michael that question when I first met him,
Speaker 2: and he took a very long pause. He had a
Speaker 2: relatively cheeky smile that washed over his face after he
Speaker 2: gathered his thoughts, and then he leant in and just said, look,
Speaker 2: Andrew might be the richest man in the country, he
Speaker 2: might have access to the best lawyers and mix it
Speaker 2: with the top end of town, but so what, that's
Speaker 2: not power. And then he again took another breath and
Speaker 2: lent in a little bit closer with his eyebrows race
Speaker 2: and just basically said, you see.
Speaker 3: I'm a Inji bindy man.
Speaker 2: I know my law I speak my language and I
Speaker 2: walk the same lands that my ancestors have for tens
Speaker 2: of thousands of years.
Speaker 3: So if you want to talk about power, well that's power.
Speaker 2: And I suppose in my mind that's what has encapsulated
Speaker 2: this story and how one incredibly proud stoic man, with
Speaker 2: the support of his tiny community has battled and beat
Speaker 2: a mining tycoon on a shoestring budget.
Speaker 1: After the break, why a huge cash payout won't come
Speaker 1: close to healing the wounds? Ben, tell me about where
Speaker 1: the legal battle is up to.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: What's happening in the courts as we speak.
Speaker 2: So the courts are listening to preliminary hearings for the
Speaker 2: compensation claim that the Injura Bandy have lodged after twenty
Speaker 2: twenty when the High Court dismissed Fortescue's application to appeal
Speaker 2: its judgment. So, after multiple court battles that have spanned
Speaker 2: multiple years, the court is now hearing this compensation claim
Speaker 2: and it needs to put I suppose a numerical value
Speaker 2: on a whole lot of different things. It needs to
Speaker 2: consider what the financial value of close to two hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty sacred sites that have been destroyed, including rock
Speaker 2: art shelters that prove human habitation for more than thirty
Speaker 2: five thousand years. It needs to put a numerical value
Speaker 2: on the cultural and familial ties that have been broken,
Speaker 2: many of which that are beyond repair. They also have
Speaker 2: to decide how much of the fifty billion dollars of
Speaker 2: iron ore profits that Fordescue has churned out of the
Speaker 2: Injia Bundy people's lands belong to them, and then probably additionally,
Speaker 2: start to consider how much of the profits belong to
Speaker 2: the inju Bundy people over the years ahead, knowing that
Speaker 2: Fortescue's Solomon Minds still has plenty of great days of
Speaker 2: extracting iron ore ahead of it. So you know, are
Speaker 2: the court's best place to determine what is the just
Speaker 2: and right and moral outcome? Or can they purely just
Speaker 2: engage with this through a legal lens and try and
Speaker 2: come to a determination there. But I know either way
Speaker 2: when I speak to Michael Woodley, yes there is some
Speaker 2: solace in the sense that they are getting towards an
Speaker 2: outcome and they will receive compensation.
Speaker 3: They need to be compensated. Our land was taken from us.
Speaker 4: We didn't relieve, we didn't give it, we didn't we
Speaker 4: didn't sell it.
Speaker 3: But if everyone had their time over again.
Speaker 2: You know, Michael has said that he and many others
Speaker 2: in the community wish this just never happened in the
Speaker 2: first place.
Speaker 1: Is that because it's caused such huge divisions in the community, Well.
Speaker 2: The community is, Yeah, in other hearings, you know, the
Speaker 2: courts have heard. How you know, family members no longer
Speaker 2: talk to one another, They avoid each other in the streets.
Speaker 2: There's enduring, lasting pain that you know, may never heal.
Speaker 3: It might take a generation to heal.
Speaker 2: It's the destruction of really significant sacred sites that get
Speaker 2: to the heart of a people's belief system, that gets
Speaker 2: to the heart of who they are. So in that context,
Speaker 2: I don't know how you can put numerical monetary value
Speaker 2: on stripping people from the things that sustain them.
Speaker 1: How's Michael Woodly doing?
Speaker 3: Now? Michael is.
Speaker 2: Someone that just appears to defy gravity. He is always smiling,
Speaker 2: he's always calm, He's always got a really deep sense
Speaker 2: of presence. You know, when I speak to him, despite
Speaker 2: the busyness of his life and you know the challenges
Speaker 2: that he has to confront, it always just feels like
Speaker 2: you're the only person that matters in that moment. But
Speaker 2: you know, when I asked him about the journey and
Speaker 2: what he's learned about himself, of course he told me that,
Speaker 2: you know, he's learned to just let things be the
Speaker 2: way that they are.
Speaker 3: I'm a serious man, but I've learned to be mental
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 2: And that he's not necessarily going to change a rock
Speaker 2: into a flower, and that it's better to just let
Speaker 2: a rock bear rock. But you can't you can't.
Speaker 3: I can't afford something that.
Speaker 4: Is not willing to change.
Speaker 2: So Michael has moved back out onto his homelands, which
Speaker 2: is around one hundred k's out of Roeburn, so it
Speaker 2: is you know, twenty five to thirty people there, I
Speaker 2: think at the best of times. But for him, you know,
Speaker 2: it's a spiritual reconnecting. You know, he's really optimistic about
Speaker 2: the future. I think he's really pleased that this is
Speaker 2: coming towards or there's going to be a sense of closure,
Speaker 2: you know, in the wake of these federal hearings, and
Speaker 2: I think he's just really you know, optimistic about turning
Speaker 2: you know, Rowburn and the injury Bardy Nation into a
Speaker 2: thriving place and a thriving people's and I think, you know,
Speaker 2: this is happening at a really important time when you know,
Speaker 2: extractivism in Australia is going to double triple, quadruple down
Speaker 2: in the wake of the energy transition and the need
Speaker 2: to extract you know, volumes of critical minerals to support that.
Speaker 2: So yeah, there's going to be a lot of eyes
Speaker 2: watching this and it'll be really interesting to see, you
Speaker 2: know what that judge hands down towards the end of
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: Ben, thanks so much for your time today, appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Also in the news today, Attorney General Mark Dreyfus has
Speaker 1: revealed he's moving forward with drafting new hate speech laws.
Speaker 1: The laws will reportedly impose federal criminal penalties against hate
Speaker 1: speech about people's race, gender, sexuality, or disability. And British
Speaker 1: Prime Minister Richie Sunak has taken a break just three
Speaker 1: days into the election campaign, so what's widely being seen
Speaker 1: as an attempt to regroup soon I announced on Saturday
Speaker 1: night that he'll bring back mandatory national service for Britains
Speaker 1: when they turn eighteen, forcing them to commit to a
Speaker 1: full time military commission or spend one weekend a month
Speaker 1: volunteering in areas like the National Health Service or aged care.
Speaker 1: I'm Asheline McGee. This is seven am. Thanks for your
Speaker 1: company today. We'll see you again tomorrow