1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Pit Talk, brought to you by Shannon's. 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: On today's episode, Christian Horner has been sacked as CEO 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: and team principal of Red Bull Racing after two decades 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: in the job, in a seismic day for Formula One, 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: just when it was meant to be taking a break. 6 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: To my name's Michael Lobonado. It's great to have your 7 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: company and the company of my co host. He's put 8 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: his empty Red Bull can outside the front of his door. 9 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 2: It's Matt Clayton, straight into the recycling. No use for that, Nimo, 10 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 2: Michael Vice. Everything comes to an end red Bull cans 11 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 2: and a Red Bull Formula one team principles apparently. But look, 12 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but I think maybe for 13 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 2: the last out of twelve to eighteen months, the fact 14 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 2: that this has happened is maybe not a surprise, but 15 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 2: I think maybe the timing of it is a surprise, 16 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 2: and I'm sure we'll cover that in the next twenty 17 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 2: minutes or so. 18 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sort of a it's not so much a 19 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: question of why, although obviously the question of why is 20 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 1: still to be resolved, but we can fill in a 21 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: lot of those blanks. The question of why now is 22 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: a little bit more difficult, but that leads us into 23 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: what I think is almost most remarkable about this news 24 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: is just how hard to see coming despite the fact 25 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: that Horner clearly has had a lot of internal enemies 26 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: at the team. The speculation of a Maxisappen's future will 27 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: touch on all of this, but it's very rare in 28 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: Formula one for there to be any secrets when it 29 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 1: comes to news. The last genuinely big secret I can 30 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: think of was Nico Rosberg's retirement. Yes, that's because he 31 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,479 Speaker 1: announced it himself when he decided, and that was in person, 32 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: in public. He didn't really have to tell anyone beforehand. 33 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: This was a genuine shock out of the blue. There 34 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: was no warning that this was coming. 35 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 2: No, because I don't think there's been anything particularly on 36 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 2: track that's been so significant in the short term that 37 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 2: makes you think, well, that is the final tipping point. 38 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 2: So it goes back to the why of this decision. 39 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 2: We know what's happened now, but is it a performance 40 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 2: related tipping point? What's the urgency for this? Because it 41 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 2: strikes me as being a little bit odd. You know, 42 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 2: we've not made it to the mid season break, yet 43 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: that seems like it would be a more sensible period 44 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 2: to perhaps make a change like this. But the key 45 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 2: thing for me is we're so deep into twenty twenty 46 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 2: five now, the second half of this season. We know 47 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 2: it's not half of a calendar year. It goes very 48 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 2: very quickly with all the back to backs. We've got 49 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 2: a completely new look Formula one coming up in twenty 50 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 2: twenty six, and one of the biggest players in the 51 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 2: sport over two distinct periods over two decades is now 52 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 2: out the door at a time of enormous uncertainty in 53 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: the sport, let alone within that team. And I think 54 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 2: that's the significant part of this. The timing and why 55 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 2: now is the most interesting part, as opposed to why 56 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 2: he's actually gone in the first place. 57 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like, I mean, we can kind we 58 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: can describe perhaps two trigger points for this decision being made. 59 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: One we can infer quite easily because we've known for 60 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: the last well essentially since Dietrich Matters has died in 61 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, which created the power vacuum that created 62 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: all the factional warfare that we've been enjoying or braced 63 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: for for the last couple of years. Is that Horner's 64 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: counted the backing of the time majority ownership of Red 65 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: Bull in his corner, and that's kind of been his 66 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: trump card. That's been the thing that's protected him against 67 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 1: all the pressure from inside and also a semi externally 68 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: from the staff and camp from else with staff in particular. 69 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: We can only assume now that that has evaporated that 70 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: what the culbination of situations, the combinations and motivations to 71 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: remove him from his post have now overcome that support 72 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: have been enough for that support to waiver or fade 73 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: away and motivate the change. So we know that, But 74 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: it's the culmination of all those other little things that 75 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: I think are interesting, and I think if we want 76 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: to try and deduce some of the reasons or where 77 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: these reasons are coming from, we have to go back 78 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: to that timing. As you say, it's sort of like 79 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: the timing of right now is has to be quite specific. 80 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: Right because it was anything to do with a controversy 81 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: he brings to the team by personality, by the investigation 82 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: to him last year, you would have done it last year. 83 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: If it was about performance, you would surely wait till 84 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: the end of the year, or at a minimum the 85 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: mid season break, because this season says so much time 86 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: to play out. We don't know if fred Boo can 87 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: turn this year around or potentially next year when we 88 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: know whether or not the gamble's Christian Horner has made 89 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: on strategizing for Red Bull's new future will pay off, 90 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: or whether the engine will be no good, in which 91 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: case you can draw a line under it. The timing 92 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: for this to me, Matt suggests that it must be 93 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 1: Verstappen related because it's the only significant Red Bull news 94 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: item that has been rocking the team for the last 95 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: month now. 96 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think there's one of two ways you 97 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 2: can look at this. It's like, could this be a 98 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 2: case of the Verstapen camp saying, well, if he doesn't go, 99 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 2: then we will and we know that there's offers out 100 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,919 Speaker 2: there with Mercedes, Or is the reason that Christian Horner 101 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 2: has gone is because they already know that Max Vstappen 102 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 2: has already gone, which is a completely different conversation for 103 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 2: that team going forward for twenty twenty six. It's always 104 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 2: going it's already going to be a big difference with 105 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 2: no Christian Horner at the helm. But could you imagine 106 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 2: a red Bull racing right now with no Horner running 107 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: it and no Vastapan driving for it. What's the stat 108 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 2: I think vastapan'scored ninety seven percent of that team poids 109 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 2: this year or some You know, you may as well 110 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 2: just enter one car, as Sir Jepero is intimated they did. 111 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 2: But to my mind, it's got to be one of 112 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 2: those two things, because there's nothing significant that's happened to 113 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 2: perhaps accelerate this story in the recent past. But you 114 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 2: mentioned something earlier about the death of Detric Matterships in 115 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 2: October twenty twenty two, and you know, once there was 116 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 2: a respectable period of moarning for something like this, there's 117 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 2: always going to be a power struggle going on behind 118 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 2: the scenes. I do wonder if this decision was inevitable 119 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 2: from quite a long while ago. But the fact that 120 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three they won all but one race, 121 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 2: and in twenty twenty four they won the World Championship 122 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 2: kind of backed their way into it after the first 123 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 2: half of the season was so good. But they won 124 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 2: the championship nonetheless, so the end justified the means. You know, 125 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: you still come out of those two seasons with two 126 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 2: drivers championships and one constructors title. I wonder, now finally 127 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 2: some of the issues that maybe were prevalent at the 128 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 2: end of twenty twenty two have come home to roost, 129 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 2: because you can look at these points tables now and 130 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 2: they're clearly not winning either the championship this year. Was 131 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 2: this just the inevitable outcome of what happened at the 132 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 2: end of twenty twenty two and we've just moved this, 133 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 2: you know, move the goalposts on this because they kept 134 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 2: winning for a while until they didn't. I wonder if 135 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 2: that's part of this too. 136 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's important to recognize, isn't it that this 137 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: team was run in a relatively unusual way by Formula 138 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: One stands all the teams are quite different now because 139 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: they're huge structures with different ownerships and all that kind 140 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: of thing. But Dietrich Mattershits ensured this team was funded 141 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: very well, that had everything it needed, but never really 142 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 1: intervened in the running of It was in the background 143 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: and users required of and around driver signings and things 144 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: like that. But really it was the team that Christian 145 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: Horner was allowed to run as he saw fit with 146 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: a relatively long leash via Helbert Marco, the motorsport advisor, 147 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: essentially liaised between Red Bull the business and Red Bull's 148 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 1: Formula One team, but that obviously couldn't continue after Matterschitz's 149 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: death because he was no longer there, to put it frankly, 150 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 1: and it also changed the way Red Bull operated. It's 151 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: now obviously much less centered around one figure. It operates 152 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: more conventionally with a variety of different chief executives. The 153 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: ownership or the forty nine percent ownerships passed down to 154 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: Gratituate's son, but I don't think he really has any 155 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 1: executive control over the company, or at least not in 156 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: the Formula one sense. So just by virtue of that 157 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: top down direction, changing the way that Christian Horna was 158 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: allowed to run the team as his own team was 159 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: always going to change because it isn't his team. At 160 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: the end of the day, he's the team brinctal, he's 161 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: the CEO, but he doesn't own it, and inevitably there 162 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: were going to be people trying to fill those spaces. 163 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: And it does seem like Matt that for the last 164 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: three years, I suppose two years since that time, Horner 165 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: had largely won his own way. He runs a lot 166 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: of the team, not just the team now as well, 167 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: but a lot of the technical enterprises power trains has 168 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: been started in that time. But he runs that exerts 169 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: a lot of control at racing bulls now as well. 170 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: It's much more an arm of red bull racing, I 171 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: suppose than it was in the past. And as a result, 172 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: you know, you talk about how these decisions he's made 173 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: are coming home to roost, it really does feel like 174 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: a lot of them are on his shoulders. Were he 175 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: made that have now sort of spiraled out of control 176 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: and come back to bite him. You know, realities had 177 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: to hit eventually. 178 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 2: I do like it how you refer to all of 179 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 2: those things in the present tense. And I'm not blaming 180 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 2: you for that, because we're just so used to Christian 181 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 2: hornerbeg sononymous with running all of these things, and we 182 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 2: know we now have to go with the oh, he 183 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 2: ran those things past tense, so we have to get 184 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 2: our tenses right, which is a strange thing to say, 185 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 2: but I guess what you're saying before in terms of 186 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 2: this one man in the situation, one person having so 187 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 2: much influence and so much control. This is a throwback 188 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 2: to the era in which he came up, because you know, 189 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 2: he's been Rebels team only team principal from two thousand 190 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 2: and five onwards. And you look at Formula one two 191 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 2: thousand and five, when he came in as a team principal, 192 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 2: he was barely at he thirties, and a lot of 193 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 2: the old dogs that were team principals at that point 194 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 2: really didn't take him or the team particularly seriously because 195 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 2: you had big, big names and big personalities and really 196 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 2: fearsome people running these teams like Ron Dennis and Jean 197 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 2: Todd and Sir Frank Williams and that real old guard 198 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 2: of Formula one Horneer looked like the kids who was 199 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 2: a work experience at that time really didn't fit in 200 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 2: the team was not really taken seriously at all. It 201 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 2: looked like they were just there to move some cans 202 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 2: and have a good time basically. And it's what's interesting 203 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 2: is that he has now become the big dog that 204 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 2: they were. But you're running a team. Sorry, he ran 205 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 2: a team past, Yes, he ran a team in a 206 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 2: very very sort of two thousand and five to ten way. 207 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty five, where Formula one has become much 208 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 2: much bigger, much more corporate the structures of these leadership groups. 209 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,439 Speaker 2: It's not just one person calling the shots in just 210 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 2: about any one of these. They report to boards, they 211 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 2: have a lot of underlings to them. He was still 212 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 2: running the team in an old school way, So it's 213 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 2: funny he was so anti establishment and the team was 214 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 2: anti establishment when he came in, and they became the 215 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 2: establishment in a lot of respects. They became the outlier 216 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 2: because they were run differently to everybody else. It was 217 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 2: the same way in two thousand and five. It's just 218 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 2: a different type of different, isn't it. 219 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it is interesting to think about the way 220 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: different teams are run and how this has contributed to 221 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: Christian or a feeling perhaps like he's been backed into 222 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: a corner because there's not really any other teams that 223 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: are run like this. Sore a graphic earlier today. I 224 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: wish I'd saved it so I could tell you about it. 225 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: But it's essentially comparing how many victories, first of all, 226 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: and championships, and then how many team principles Red Bull 227 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: Racing and Ferrari have had in two thousand and five, 228 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: and unsurprisingly, there are many more team principles on the 229 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: Ferrari side, but many more victories and titles on the 230 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: Red Bull Racing side, because it is historically a method 231 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: that has worked. But because of the nature of Formula 232 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: One teams and the F one business, the idea of 233 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: having an owner operator is pretty fanciful because there's not 234 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: very many people who can simply own and then have 235 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: the expertise to run a team. Total Wolf's the only 236 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: one who gets closer and Stirdy a third of the 237 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: Mercedes team, but even he styles himself less as an 238 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 1: active team principle and more as a like a supervisor 239 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:54,559 Speaker 1: if you like, of the entire team. You don't see 240 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: him on the pitwall making decisions. An example where's Christian 241 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: Houno is always very active on the pitwall right in 242 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: the middle of everything continues to go through him in 243 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 1: a way that I think is slightly different to Toto Wolf. 244 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,439 Speaker 1: I think Christian Norlan was actually asked about this recently, 245 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: kind of likened it to the way Aston Martin now 246 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: runs with Andy Cowe. But I don't see that many 247 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 1: similarities there because the shadow of Lawrence Stroll just simply 248 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 1: looms so large over that team that I don't think 249 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: it ever could be so I do wonder whether a 250 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: success was that idea has been and as lauded as 251 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: that idea is as well, there's a real in Formula one, 252 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: almost a longing for those days where someone would really 253 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: went through one person. I'm just not convinced Formula one 254 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: today and it's grown so much as well as sport 255 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: in the last five years, as have the teams can 256 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: be run in that way, and perhaps that's part of 257 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: what we're seeing here. 258 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 2: Well. I think this is going to be part of 259 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 2: Christian Horner's legacy, and I think he's going to be 260 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 2: the last person to run a team like this. I 261 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 2: don't see in the future of Formula one that there's 262 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 2: going to be anyone that comes in that has that 263 00:11:55,880 --> 00:12:00,079 Speaker 2: amount of longevity power influence over so many areas of 264 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 2: the business. I think he is the last of the 265 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 2: dinosaurs in that respect. I don't think we're ever going 266 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 2: to see this again. And the fact that he was 267 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 2: able to do this for so long in a Formula 268 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 2: one world that's changed multiple times over those twenty years 269 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 2: is hugely commendable when you look at the success they've 270 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 2: had and the graphic that I haven't seen this, but 271 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 2: I can absolutely imagine what it's going to look like 272 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 2: in terms of team principles versus championships one. It's a 273 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 2: very very uneven graph, But I think he is the 274 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 2: last person that's ever going to run a team like this, 275 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 2: And the fact that he was able to do it 276 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 2: for so long and have these two really distinct periods 277 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,719 Speaker 2: of success, the Sebastian Vastal era the Maxistapan Area era, 278 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 2: a lot of winning in between. I just don't think 279 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 2: we're ever going to see this again. And for all 280 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 2: of the achievements and the stats that I'm sure we're 281 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 2: going to go into, that might be the greatest legacy 282 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 2: in that I just don't see in the future, given 283 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 2: in what formula one is now, that one person in 284 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 2: one team can have their fingerprints on so many aspects 285 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 2: of the business. 286 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think, I mean, it's easy to compare 287 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: with McLaren because mclaran's doing so well at the moment, 288 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: but it struck me the other day in conversation that 289 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: McLaren fields best set up. And again it's so easy 290 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: to say that when they're winning titles, but you have 291 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: Zach Brown playing the very high profile political figure who 292 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: goes out there and also cops that he's in the 293 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,439 Speaker 1: position to cop flak on behalf of the team as 294 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: the CEO, but then doesn't have to go and run 295 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: the team, having taken that damage in some cases, or 296 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: having spent the day being on the offensive making jokes 297 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: a Christian Harner's expense or whatever you have. Andrea Stella 298 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: the engineer's brain, the man who's come up through the team, 299 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: who's worked with the people actually running it. Two very 300 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: different characters in the way they present and the way 301 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: they operate in the paddock and external to the paddock. 302 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: But that feels like a better balance now considering the 303 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: pressures and expectations on a single team principle or CEO 304 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: character if you like. 305 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, agretted and the other part of the McLaren story 306 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 2: here as well. There's a bit of the Mattershit's angle 307 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 2: in this. In the Bahrony sovereign fund that pumps so 308 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,199 Speaker 2: much money into McLaren, they largely provide the money and 309 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 2: get out of the way and employ people to do 310 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 2: the job. And I think that was one of the 311 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 2: great strengths of Red Bull during the Mattershit's ownership, was 312 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 2: that they were never wanting for anything but he never 313 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 2: wanted to be involved in the way the team was 314 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:13,839 Speaker 2: being run. And I think in the McLaren thing, it's 315 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 2: not the same obviously, but it's a similar setup in 316 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 2: that the money and the resources provided and then you 317 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 2: employ the experts in their fields to get on with 318 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 2: the business of winning. And that's what we've seen now. 319 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 2: And then you look at the the job's become too 320 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 2: big now for our person, you know, the Brown Stellar 321 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 2: double act. It's a really interesting dynamic between those two 322 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 2: because I think each of them is strong where the 323 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 2: other isn't. And there's you know, Stella's got the engineer's 324 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 2: touch and maybe the more granular approach and Zach Brown 325 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 2: is you more big picture sponsorship, marketing, overall overarching view 326 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 2: of how our team should be run. I mean, Recentcy 327 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 2: advises everything and we can look at the results and say, well, 328 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 2: aren't they doing a good job? But I think they 329 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 2: were doing a good job from the moment they became 330 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 2: a double act. I think now the points table is 331 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 2: just starting to reflect that maybe this is the way 332 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 2: to run a Formula One team. And you know the 333 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 2: old saying about inimitation being the greatest form of flattery. 334 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 2: I think a lot of teams will look, with the 335 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 2: exception possibly Ferrari because I've just going to do Ferrari things. 336 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 2: But you'll see a lot of other teams will look 337 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 2: at the way McLaren's running and try and find their 338 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 2: equivalents in those positions because it's clearly the right recipe 339 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 2: at the moment. It also probably brings into more focus 340 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 2: that the Red Bull way was a way of the past, 341 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 2: and while it had its reasons to be successful because 342 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 2: it had Adrian Newey, and it had Sebastian Battle, and 343 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 2: it had Max Forstapan, there's a time limit on this 344 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 2: sort of thing, and I think it's being phased out 345 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 2: as a way to run a Formula One team in 346 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 2: twenty twenty. 347 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: Five, undeniably one hundred and twenty four race victories, fourteen championships, 348 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: that's six constructors, eight drivers titles is his legacy in 349 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: It's funny I was thinking this morning. Red Bull statistics 350 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: as one of the great Formula One teams are his statistics. 351 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: He is the only team residents, the only guy's ever 352 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: run it. They are his stats. So his legacy is 353 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: enormous as much as the way he's bowed out it's 354 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: sort of been a bit of a peatre out, not 355 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: only through a declining sense of competitiveness at the team, 356 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: but also this sort of ungracious or somewhat undignified exit 357 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: or press release exits are never very satisfying it. That's 358 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: part of it, but undoubtedly as a significant legacy. We'll 359 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: talk a little bit later on about how that might 360 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: be applied to formulae later. Obviously, everyone wants to know 361 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: where this intersects with Maxwistappan, which has been the news 362 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: story of the last month, particularly the last week or two, 363 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: rumors that he could affect from the team that he 364 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: is talking tom Besides, it's less of a rumor. Mercedes 365 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: has said that they are talking to his management. The 366 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: rumor is the significance of that. But we talked on 367 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: a little bit earlier that this seems to be a 368 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: case of either the verstap in camp saying it's it's 369 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: essentially us or him, or saying we are already gone, 370 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: and Horner essentially carrying the can for that. But I 371 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: think what's interesting, Mattter is if we do look at 372 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: the way Horner has run the team to get to 373 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: this point, particularly in the last was a decade now really, 374 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: or if you want to just say the seven years 375 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: since Daniel Ricardo left, although these moves are already been 376 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: put in place, then this is a team that has 377 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: become increasingly centered on Max Verstappan to the point where 378 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: no other driver can even score in this team. Seven 379 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: points for Yuki Sinda, so fard to see it one 380 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty something. I think for Max it's sort 381 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: of ironic that it feels like that set up that, 382 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: as you say, did reap great rewards, you know, one 383 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: championships with that configuration, appears to be significant in Horner's 384 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 1: downfall massively. 385 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 2: So when you think of the amount of times that 386 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 2: Max would do something that was shall we say, borderline 387 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 2: or perhaps just you know, completely wrong or the wrong 388 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 2: thing to do. Like Horner was the great enabler, and 389 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 2: he allowed for Stappan to perhaps get away or deflect 390 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 2: some of the scrutiny or the criticism that was going 391 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 2: to go against for Staffan because of various things he 392 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 2: did on track or set off track. But it was 393 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 2: very much the playbook he used with Sebastian Vattle as well. 394 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 2: He was always in Sam's corner and you know you look, 395 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 2: at the end of the day with Sebastian Vettel in 396 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 2: twenty fourteen, the car was no good, so he left. 397 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 2: And Formula One drivers are fickled with these sorts of 398 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 2: things because they will go where the performance is. And 399 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 2: so as relates to your previous question about Max Verstappan, 400 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 2: we don't have a crystal ball for this particular episode, 401 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 2: but if I was going to dust mine off, I 402 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 2: would almost guarantee that this ensures that Max is going 403 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 2: to stay for the rest of this for next season, 404 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 2: for twenty twenty six, because what he now becomes is 405 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 2: the most coveted asset on the driver market whenever he 406 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 2: decides he wants to be in that market. Given you've 407 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 2: got this brand new formula and reset for twenty twenty six, 408 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 2: would it not behoove for Stappen in his camp to 409 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 2: see what it is that Red Bull have got with 410 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,719 Speaker 2: new leadership and a new power traded and new formula 411 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 2: and maybe this is the roadmap back to the top again, 412 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 2: because if it's made pretty clear early in the twenty 413 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 2: twenty six season, that's not the way to go. He 414 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 2: has the status in the sport that he could phone 415 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 2: any team principle for whichever team it is hits the 416 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 2: ground running the fastest at the start of next year 417 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,199 Speaker 2: and say I'd like to come and drive for you. 418 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 2: Let's make this happen, and you know that it would. 419 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 2: So I would think in the short term it would 420 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 2: probably guarantee that he stays. Now, I could be completely 421 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 2: wrong by the top of this podcast is but I 422 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 2: think this is going to be more likely that he 423 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 2: stays for the short term and then holds all the 424 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 2: power for the longer term once we get twenty twenty 425 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 2: six and how this brand new formula plays out, and 426 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 2: history is a guide with these sorts of things. I mean, 427 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 2: you were in the sport at this point. You think 428 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 2: back to twenty thirteen and twenty fourteen, the large last 429 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,880 Speaker 2: rule change of this significance that we had. Red Bull 430 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 2: won the final nine races of twenty thirteen, they won 431 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 2: four championships in a row with Sebastian Vattle, and then 432 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 2: we got to twenty fourteen and they were absolutely hopeless 433 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 2: and Mercedes basically wiped the floor with everybody for years 434 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 2: after years after years, and they weren't particularly good in 435 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 2: twenty twelve and thirteen. So on, really big regulation changes 436 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 2: the balance of power. It doesn't just slightly shift, it 437 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 2: can completely be turned upside down. And I would imagine 438 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 2: that Vastapan has got he could go wherever he wants 439 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 2: to once he reads the tea leads as to who's 440 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 2: good and who's not. And I think short term this 441 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 2: probably keeps him where he is, but longer term perhaps not. 442 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: So let me put this you there, because let's assume, 443 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: and this is us making an assumption because there is 444 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 1: so little information about this situation. Conveniently, there are two 445 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: weekends off for middle one, so there'll be a while 446 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: before questions can be put in firston to many of 447 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 1: the key players. But let's assume that this has been 448 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: a result of essentially pressure from the Vestapen camp saying 449 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: we don't like Haunt the way Horn's running things. If 450 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: he doesn't go, then we're out. And Red Bull's acquiesce 451 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,239 Speaker 1: to that decision that puts a lot of power into 452 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: vestap In camp's hands pretty explicitly right, that you have 453 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: the power to decide who the team principle is or 454 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 1: who it is not, at least in this case. And 455 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: there are rumors as well that they're not particularly impressed 456 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: with the leader of the technical department, Pierre Wasche since 457 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: he's elevated to the top job at the expense of 458 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: Adrian Nuey, and who knows what that means for him, 459 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: considering Christian Horna was one of his big backers, and 460 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 1: so on and so forth. But then, after all of this, 461 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: after the fact that the Vestapen camp has potentially dictated 462 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: the identity of the team principal, perhaps other people. Obviously 463 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: Helbert Marco's status is somewhat elevated by this as well, 464 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: considering he's a verstapin camp. If he then leaves next year, 465 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: what was the point of all of this nowithstanding that, okay, 466 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: maybe Christian Horner's style of team principalship has run its 467 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: course and for the last eighteen months a lot of 468 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 1: people have left under the leadership of Christian Horner. Doesn't 469 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: that just debase the entire organization further that you've made 470 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: so many decisions based on someone who may well leave it, 471 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: about who decide to leave it about six months time. 472 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 2: Yes, it does. But there's also the red Bull playbook 473 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 2: in that, as we were talking about before, there's always 474 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 2: been this element that when they have the prize driver asset, 475 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 2: which they did with Vattle and they do with Verstappen. 476 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 2: They will do every single thing to keep that particular 477 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 2: person on side because they are difference makers. Like seb 478 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 2: was absolutely brilliant, and that iteration of Formula One cars 479 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 2: have won four championships. Perhaps a little bit more limited 480 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 2: on a wider scale, but at the time, with the 481 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 2: equipment that was available, he was the man for four 482 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 2: straight years. I think what Vastappen has done in the 483 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 2: past eighteen months, and we've talked about this, probably puts 484 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 2: his career historically into a better light. Because it's one 485 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,239 Speaker 2: thing to win and be a kingpin when you've got 486 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 2: the best car on the greed. It's another thing entirely 487 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 2: to do it when you don't. And from the middle 488 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 2: of twenty twenty three, and you mean, you look at 489 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 2: what he's done this year, the fact that he's even 490 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 2: third in the Driver's Championship and he's managed to win 491 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 2: some races. I can't think of as a very very 492 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 2: short list of other drivers who could do what he 493 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 2: has done this year, probably a list of exactly zero. 494 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 2: I think he's absolutely fantastic this year. So when there 495 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 2: is a chance to accumulate power and wield that power 496 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 2: as you see fit. Why wouldn't you take it if 497 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 2: you were part of his camp and you know it 498 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 2: means you hold all the cards and the other thing 499 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 2: with Max, of course, he's achieved so much success so 500 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 2: young that he now gets to right the back end 501 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 2: of his story. 502 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:37,400 Speaker 1: Now. 503 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 2: Do we expect him to be running around in Formula 504 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 2: one at forty three like Fernando a lotso? Absolutely not. 505 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 2: But it still feels to me that he's at the 506 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 2: age and stage of his career with enough runway left 507 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 2: that he can dictate this final chapter and as to 508 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 2: where that is and being on the right horse at 509 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 2: the right time with this huge regulation reset for twenty 510 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 2: twenty six, do you use all that power to stay 511 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 2: where you are and have a team that's completely bent 512 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 2: to your will? A little bit of sort of Michael 513 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 2: Schumacher era Ferrari perhaps in that, Or do you look 514 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 2: at what's coming along in twenty twenty six and go, oh, 515 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 2: these guys have got it very very right, whether that 516 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,159 Speaker 2: be Mercedes or somebody else, And then you have this 517 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 2: second chapter of your career winning somewhere else in a 518 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 2: different set of circumstances. I think we always look at 519 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 2: these drivers and writers in motor GP differently. If they're 520 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 2: able to win several times with different manufacturers in different forms, 521 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 2: I think it elevates a driver in the status of Wow, 522 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 2: this guy really was quite something because it wasn't a 523 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 2: specific team in a specific set of circumstances that enabled 524 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,199 Speaker 2: them to win. I just think that right now the 525 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 2: Vestap and camp has all the cards they can determine 526 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 2: where this goes. But I don't think we're going to 527 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 2: get a shorter term move on this. I think it 528 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 2: might be slightly longer term. 529 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: There's one other difference I think between Better leaving the 530 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,199 Speaker 1: team and Verstap and threatening or perhaps having decided to 531 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: leave the team, and that is when Vette left, it 532 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: was still a time that Red Bull seemed to genuinely 533 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: believe in its driver program and its candidates. Because, of 534 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: course Daniel Ricardo had just been elevated to the team 535 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 1: and proved a stern challenge for Sebastianville and obviously turned 536 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:07,919 Speaker 1: out to be really quite a good driver at Red 537 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: Bull Racing, and obviously behind him eventually came well. Daniel 538 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: Kiveat is probably less remembered, but max forstaffened inevitably turned up, 539 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 1: and so that flow was still happening. I want to 540 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,120 Speaker 1: turn our attention to the future of the team now 541 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 1: because it's now all Laura Meckia has problem as CEO 542 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: and team principle to manage whatever's left of the circumstances here. 543 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: But one of the problems is that the team feels 544 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: much less secure if a if a post for staff 545 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: in future is to come to pass, and it will eventually, 546 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: whether or not it's in the coming years or he 547 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: just retires it into twenty eight, it's going to turn 548 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: up eventually. The problem of performance from the second car 549 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: at the moment occupied by Yuki Sonoda is significant. The 550 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 1: problem of how much the team can have confidence in 551 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: the drivers at racing bulls is a problem now Isac 552 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,479 Speaker 1: Hatch is doing quite well, but Yuki Sounoda is doing 553 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 1: quite well to start of the year as well. Liam 554 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: Lawson's already been turfed out from Red Bull Racing. Then 555 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: we add the question about it's going to be quite 556 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: a big set of circumstances are going to put you 557 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: well the power unit program. There are lots of rumors 558 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 1: about power unit programs No one knows how well or 559 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: badly they're doing, because it's impossible to but there are 560 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: a lot of rumors that it's a little bit behind 561 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: the curve, and certainly Christian Orna had been talking down expectations. 562 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: It'll be up to Laura meche is to manage those 563 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,199 Speaker 1: next year in an era of significant change, and with 564 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: a team that's depleted of some pretty significant chiefs from 565 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 1: the last two decades. It's a pretty big job to 566 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: take on, isn't it That there's a lot on mechey 567 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: has played And I was a little bit surprised to 568 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: find out this morning when Red Bull completed it's half 569 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: of the announcement that he will be in exactly the 570 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: same role as CEO and team principal. 571 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 2: Massive massive shoes to feel. And also from a position 572 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 2: of I wouldn't say you're expected to fail given the 573 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 2: circumstances that you inherit this in. But if this thing 574 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,719 Speaker 2: is even neutral, let alone a success, that's almost going 575 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 2: to be a surprise, because you think there's going to 576 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 2: be some sort of perhaps downturn or ramifications from this. 577 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 2: It really is a very very difficult role, and if 578 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 2: you're Laurel meck is, you're hardly going to say no, 579 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,360 Speaker 2: let's be perfectly honest when the phone rings. But that's 580 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 2: a seriously, seriously tough task because the other factor you 581 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 2: just mentioned them before is that Rebel Racing effectively becomes 582 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 2: a fully fledged works team in its own right because 583 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 2: they're going to be producing their own engine in house. 584 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 2: They've always been an engine customer. That's a big leap 585 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 2: for a company that's never done this before, let alone, 586 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 2: you know, a business like RedBull Racing is so well 587 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 2: established over these twenty years, but this is a different 588 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 2: task that they're undertaking as a startup, with a new 589 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 2: set of rules, with a lot of up people and uncertainty. 590 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 2: So look, it's it's a massive challenge. And what's interesting 591 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 2: we were talking off air before we started here in 592 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 2: that a lot of people who are relatively new to 593 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 2: Formula one would only know Red Bull as being a 594 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 2: championship contending drivers and constructors championship contending outfit over the 595 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 2: past fifteen years, because that's what they've mostly been. And 596 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 2: then even in the years where things were a bit down, 597 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 2: like say twenty fourteen that we mentioned before, the only 598 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 2: other driver and team to win races in that Mercedes 599 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 2: dominated twenty fourteen new formula was three race wins v. 600 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 2: Daniel Ricardo for Red Bull Racing. For our win a race, 601 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 2: nobody else fired a shot, So we've only ever known 602 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 2: him as being a successful team. You forget that for 603 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 2: the first five years of their existence, they might snag 604 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 2: a podium here or there, but they were in the 605 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 2: hunt for absolutely nothing from two thousand and five up 606 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 2: until two thousand and nine. So maybe we need to 607 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 2: reframe our expectations for what Red Bull Racing might be 608 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,880 Speaker 2: in this new formula, which is not something we've had 609 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 2: to countenance for a really long time now. 610 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, because it is now completely new red Bull Racing. 611 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: As we said, Christian Hornand was the only team prince 612 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: all they had a lot of the staff we've talked 613 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: in recent in the rescent eighteen months are the only 614 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: people who have ever filled those positions of the team. 615 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: This is a new Red Bull Racing now. And the 616 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: final one I want to put you out is that 617 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: this is also a new year for Christian Horner. For 618 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: two decades doing the same thing since he was thirty one, 619 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: I think it was. If he's fifty one now, it 620 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: must be a little bit frightening for him. I guess 621 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: shouldn't fel too sympathetic. He's quite wealthy as a result 622 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: of all this. But what do you think he's going 623 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,360 Speaker 1: to do next? This is a question I've been wondering 624 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: all more since since that happened last night. And I'm 625 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 1: not convinced, not one hundred percent convinced we will see 626 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: him in a similar role in Formula one. But I'm 627 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: also not convinced that we won't see him in Formula one. 628 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 2: No. I mean, you could be slightly disingenuous here and say, well, 629 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 2: our PA need a team principle about every three months, 630 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,400 Speaker 2: so he could possibly, you know, he could wait ten 631 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 2: minutes and that job might come up again, So you 632 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 2: have to wonder with that. I think the you know, 633 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 2: a lot of people have been drawing a line between 634 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,959 Speaker 2: Horner and Ferrari, given that he was approached previously, and 635 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 2: it was you know, Horner who pretty much said that 636 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 2: you should go and talk to Fred Vassa, who'd be 637 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 2: a good guy to do it. So I know there's 638 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 2: been some uncertainty with Vassa's role and the fact that 639 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 2: Ferrari has been a little bit disappointing in the Italian 640 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 2: presses rattling xabers as they tend to, but I wouldn't 641 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 2: be surprised. I don't think. Look first thing first, I 642 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 2: don't think he's going to jump at anything. He's not 643 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 2: a guy who needs to be employed tomorrow. Let's be 644 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 2: perfectly honest. But you mentioned it before. He's fifty one 645 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 2: and in Formula one senior management terms, there's a lot 646 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 2: left for him to do. I don't think his energy 647 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 2: and the ability to lead, I don't think that's going 648 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 2: to go to waste. He's going to end up somewhere. 649 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 2: But a slightly cheeky thought, imagine him in Stefano Dominicali's role, 650 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 2: actually running Formula one rather than running one of the 651 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 2: ten teams. Now, that would be interesting, wouldn't it. 652 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: That would be very interesting. I don't know if Toto 653 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: Wolf would like it. For one, I think there might 654 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: be a couple of people who may not love it. 655 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: But you know, he does certainly have the expedition there. 656 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: We're rumors now thinking back in the Bernie Eckleston days. 657 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: One day he would replace Bernie, wasn't it? Because they 658 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: get along and they probably think in a similar way, 659 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: and I think that's quite a good pick. I'm not convinced, 660 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: my I'm not convinced everyone thinks it's a good poe. 661 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: But I can see it happening. I can see it working, 662 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: and I can see him enjoying that, and I think 663 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: Formula probably get something out of that as well. 664 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 2: But I also think he would actually do a pretty 665 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 2: good job. Yeah, roll, I mean, you take a lot 666 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 2: of them. You know, it's very hard to separate the 667 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 2: politics from the person in this situation. And yes, there 668 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 2: are some I was going to say some sores, but 669 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 2: more some gaping wounds with some of these other principles 670 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 2: that he would possibly be running over the top of there. 671 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 2: But in terms of the leadership skills and what he 672 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 2: would need to bring to the role and the energy 673 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 2: of moving Formula one into its post twenty thirty future 674 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 2: or whatever that's going to be, he certainly will qualify 675 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 2: for a job like That's just a matter of whether 676 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 2: he would want to do it. 677 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: I guess yes. And it would give Formula one a 678 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: chance to use one of its favorite phrases, poacher turned gamekeeper. 679 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: Ah Yes, just be wary look out for that one. 680 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: It will be very interesting, no doubt, a lot of 681 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: change still to come and a lot still to learn 682 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: about this move in the next couple of weeks. The 683 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: Belgian Grand Prix not until the end of the month, 684 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: so expect plenty of rumor and speculation to swirl unless 685 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: and until someone decides to fill us in in whatever 686 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: manner they choose, whether that be a driver or perhaps 687 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: Horner himself if he has kept some receipts on his 688 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: way out of Milton Keynes. But that's all the time 689 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: we have for pit Talk today. You can subscribe to 690 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: Pittalk wherever you get your favorite podcasts, and you can 691 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: leave us a rating and a review as well, and 692 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: a reminder. This weekend is a Supercars towns will five 693 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: hundred with Friday's race at three forty pm and races 694 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: on Saturday and Sunday at three pm, after which you 695 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: can catch the German Motorcycle Grand Prix with lights out 696 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: at ten pm Sunday, and you can keep up to 697 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: date with all the later steff one, Supercars and MOTOJP 698 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: news at Foxsports dot com dot Au. From Matt Clayton 699 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: and me Michael Lomonado, Thanks very much for your company 700 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: and we'll catch you next week.