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Speaker 1: I get a tam it's a you project, It's Jumbo,

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Speaker 1: It's Fatty Harps, It's Craig Anthony Harperrids, Tiffany and Cook,

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Speaker 1: It's Robert, Robert, Robert. What's your middle name again? What's

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Speaker 1: his middle name? Roberts? Do you have a middle name,

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Speaker 1: Bobby does? It's Joseph Joseph. Of course I knew that. Robert,

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Speaker 1: Joseph Capuccio, Tiffany and Cook, tiff What are you looking

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Speaker 1: like that? Did your dog just break into your studio

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Speaker 1: the door?

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Speaker 2: Did you slide a jar? And I'm like, if that

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Speaker 2: is bere we are in for a ride.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, Well, there's no animal that's going to break

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Speaker 1: into my studio because I'm animal less, but I could

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Speaker 1: be animal full by about February or March, depending on

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Speaker 1: the outcome of my PhD and the timing with that.

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Speaker 1: And you did send me a photograph of a dog,

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Speaker 1: tiff that's the most terrifying fucking canine I've ever laid eyes.

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Speaker 2: On, but so weirdly beautiful, captivating, even kind.

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Speaker 1: Of look like an old leather boot that was three

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Speaker 1: foot high. A Mexican can hairless. Is that what it's called?

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Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, I'm trying to google the pronunciation of the

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Speaker 2: breed because the word itself to read is yeah.

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Speaker 1: Because which sounds like a cat more than a dog,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's bobby. You should see this dog. It's

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Speaker 1: like the size of a labrador or bigger, but it's

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Speaker 1: got zero hair, and it looks like maybe like the

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Speaker 1: size of a big greyhound. Well it looks it's.

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Speaker 2: Kind of yeah, it's kind of like a maybe a

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Speaker 2: Doberman size.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's big, and it looks like it's made of leather.

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Speaker 2: So it's pronounced queen tlea sholder.

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Speaker 1: Sorry say that again.

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Speaker 2: Show lo eats queen tea, which is spelled x O

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Speaker 2: l o I t z c u I n t

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Speaker 2: l I. No one in the world could possibly look

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Speaker 2: at that word and pronounce that correctly, unless maybe they

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Speaker 2: were Mexican.

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Speaker 1: I'm yeah, or I bet somebody could. Yeah, that's a

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Speaker 1: weird looking dog. What was it like in that that

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Speaker 1: kind of like I was a bit intrigued and a

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Speaker 1: bit repelled and a bit curious what it's like. Kind

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Speaker 1: of ugly but almost beautiful. Ugly.

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Speaker 2: Look. I just saw it from a distance and it

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Speaker 2: looked like an old like one of those statues that

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Speaker 2: sits on the pillars of an old castle. It looked

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Speaker 2: like that had come alive out of stone and just

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Speaker 2: strolled on into sin Kilda. And they've got a really

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Speaker 2: beautiful temperament. They look like they would be kind of

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Speaker 2: an aggressive fighting dog. It's beautiful.

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Speaker 3: I would imagine they would be. They're probably called all

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Speaker 3: the time that would piss me off.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I had a.

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Speaker 3: Friend of mine. I had a friend of mine who

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Speaker 3: she used to breed hairless sphinx and I went to

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Speaker 3: replace one night and there were five of them, and

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Speaker 3: they had these weird jumpers on because they get quite cold,

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Speaker 3: and it's just like a bunch of house cats and jumpers.

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Speaker 3: So already it's like, oh, this is what people talk

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Speaker 3: about when they talk about like a really bad acid trip.

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Speaker 3: This must be exactly.

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Speaker 1: Like Wow, wow, I imagine hayless cat in a jumper.

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Speaker 1: You'd already have enough is shoes, having no hair when

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Speaker 1: all the other fucking cats have got here, and then

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Speaker 1: I just jump.

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Speaker 3: It was like little turtlenecks they were all running around in.

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Speaker 3: And they turned out to be, like most cats, highly

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Speaker 3: intelligent and so interactive and affectionate. Two of them climbed

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Speaker 3: me at the same time, at the same exact pace,

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Speaker 3: and both started licking each side of my head.

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Speaker 1: Wow, which we are we still having the same chat?

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Speaker 1: Are we talking about your box? Not? Because I think

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Speaker 1: those stories are interchangeable. Oh that's great, That's just great.

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Speaker 4: Welcome, Welcome to the show, everybody, And if it's the

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Speaker 4: three of you who are still here, we'll try and

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Speaker 4: regale you with some stories and some potentially something of

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Speaker 4: value that might help you, I don't know, do something positive.

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Speaker 1: With your life, or your time or your energy. TIF

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Speaker 1: what have you been up to this morning? Anytime?

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Speaker 2: Oh, anytime, anytime. I've been out and about a lot lately.

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Speaker 2: So this morning I tried to have a sleep and

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Speaker 2: I slept into a whopping six am, which is quite

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Speaker 2: quite a profound sleeping for me as of late. Been

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Speaker 2: enjoying the sun, eating cookies obviously, and catching up on.

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Speaker 1: Work, all the basics. Vital Well, Now, Fatty Harps is

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Speaker 1: on the home straight. I feel like I've been saying

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Speaker 1: that for fucking three years, but I'm actually on the

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Speaker 1: home of my PhD, my timeline, my candi. That you

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Speaker 1: finishes January sixteenth, so like it or not, it's coming

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Speaker 1: to an end, so there's absolutely no pressure with any

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Speaker 1: of that. And great sleep, great sleep. No, I'm actually

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Speaker 1: sleeping all right.

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Speaker 2: But I see the imprint of a birthday hat on

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Speaker 2: your head somewhere today, Can I see that? Oh? Wow?

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Speaker 1: I went and saw I went and saw Mary Harper.

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Speaker 1: And the old Da was eighty six yesterday, December three,

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Speaker 1: the year of our Lord, nineteen thirty nine, and o

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Speaker 1: domini she was now an interesting story. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if if you do bump into my mum anyone, don't

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Speaker 1: mention this because it's not the it's not the most

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Speaker 1: uplifting story. But my mom's mom died giving birth to

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Speaker 1: my mum, so my mom never knew her mum. So

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Speaker 1: it's like you know when you like, oh, who are

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Speaker 1: you like out of your parents, or it's like, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so she she was born nine thirty nine, first year

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Speaker 1: of the World War, and she's still around. And it

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Speaker 1: was great to see the old Dahl and the old

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Speaker 1: man is not you're not moving like a gazelle. Will

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Speaker 1: say that he's not going to do any fucking ten

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Speaker 1: k time trial anytime soon. But it was good to

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Speaker 1: catch up with him and eat some food and talk

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Speaker 1: shit and then head home at stupid o'clock and have

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Speaker 1: nine minutes of sleep and then get up and ingest

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Speaker 1: some caffeine just to get my brain working. And here

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Speaker 1: we are. What about you, Robert, how have you been?

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Speaker 1: What have you been up to?

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Speaker 3: I've been having a lot of caffeine as well, probably

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Speaker 3: a bit too much, just work. Last week was a

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Speaker 3: holiday here in the US, Thanksgiving?

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Speaker 1: What is the origin story of Thanksgiving?

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Speaker 3: For us?

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Speaker 1: Non Thanksgiving people? I know that I think a few

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Speaker 1: Australians actually celebrate it, but it's obviously not an Australian holiday.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure every American knows every once of the

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Speaker 1: story of its its genesis. But what can you bobby

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Speaker 1: a fight in sixty seconds?

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Speaker 3: For us?

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Speaker 1: What is Thanksgiving about?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's when the Pilgrims left Plymouth, England and landed

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Speaker 3: in well Plymouth coincidentally and by way of Holland. I

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Speaker 3: believe we leave that bit out, and they met the

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Speaker 3: Native Americans and they formed this lovely friendship because the

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Speaker 3: Native Americans helped them through the first hard winter, and

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Speaker 3: without the help of the Native Americans they would not

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Speaker 3: have survived.

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Speaker 1: And then to show their appreciation, they gave.

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Speaker 3: Them small parks and basically killed everyone in horribly violent

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Speaker 3: and sadistic ways. And every year we celebrate that on Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 1: What, well, that's the worst story I've ever heard. Are

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Speaker 1: you trying to depress any everyone?

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Speaker 3: Okay? School, well, school, you hear that?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 3: That they came in, they made great friends with these

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Speaker 3: Native American people who were very, very different from them,

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Speaker 3: and apparently the Pilgrims had enormous respect and curiosity about

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Speaker 3: people's differences. When you get to know the story, and

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Speaker 3: they had this big feast to celebrate how grateful they

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Speaker 3: were and they called this Thanksgiving, and you know, then

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Speaker 3: you get a little bit older and you start to

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Speaker 3: learn a little bit more history, and it's like, I

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Speaker 3: don't know, I don't know if if I could say

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Speaker 3: that the historical relationship between the indigenous people in the

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Speaker 3: United States and people who came over from Europe was

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Speaker 3: always defined as friendly. So what it depends on your

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Speaker 3: definition of the word friendship.

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Speaker 1: So what is it now like in twenty twenty five?

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Speaker 1: What is it? And I'm sure I'm sure that maybe

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Speaker 1: that for some people that the historical kind of relevance

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Speaker 1: may shouldn't have but may have disappeared, Like what is it?

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Speaker 1: And that story shouldn't be forgotten or it should probably

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Speaker 1: be taught and told more. But what is it in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five is where families just get together and

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Speaker 1: hang out?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Now, I mean, now it's just the day to

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Speaker 3: get together. And I mean I don't want to be

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Speaker 3: cynical at all, and typically I'm not cynical. But for

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Speaker 3: for some people, I guess it's it's it's just a

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Speaker 3: really important national holiday. For other people, it's a reason

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Speaker 3: to get together with family members that you haven't seen

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Speaker 3: all the year. You know, some of which you love,

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Speaker 3: some of who you despise, and you get together with

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Speaker 3: them purely out of obligation. You eat a perverse amount

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Speaker 3: of food and drink, and you know, just pass out

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Speaker 3: in a stupor.

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Speaker 1: Is there any kind of what's the word pushback? Like

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Speaker 1: in Australia, we have on January twenty sixth, correct me

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Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, tiff thing called Australia Day, and that

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Speaker 1: gets quite a lot of pushback because the origin story,

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Speaker 1: the story you just told us not that different, you

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Speaker 1: know for Australia. And I'm not trying to be political

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Speaker 1: or polarize anyone. I'm just curious, like, and there's been

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Speaker 1: a lot of let's say, argument and debate even conflict

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Speaker 1: around whether or not Australia Day should be a thing.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not saying it should or it shouldn't. I'm

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Speaker 1: just talking about what's been going on over the last

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Speaker 1: decade or two. Is there any pushback in the States

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Speaker 1: against this celebration.

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Speaker 3: I don't hear that much about Thanksgiving, and I'm sure

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Speaker 3: there is pushback, But we've had pushback on certain holidays,

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Speaker 3: like Columbus Day, for example. That's been an ongoing debate

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Speaker 3: because the story of Christopher Columbus it's not I mean,

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Speaker 3: there's a couple of different origin stories, let's just put

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Speaker 3: it that way. They don't line up with one another

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Speaker 3: very well. But but here in you know, the United States,

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Speaker 3: where we're very much against revisionist history, we like to

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Speaker 3: we like to confront the past, all of our achievements

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Speaker 3: and our mistakes, and take a sobering, honest view at

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Speaker 3: what we have done and who we are, and how

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Speaker 3: we can learn from that and just basically become better

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Speaker 3: people and build a society that respects differences and works

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Speaker 3: for as many people as possible.

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Speaker 1: It's the pulse button. Okay, I want to chat about

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Speaker 1: something else. Thank you for that. Thank you for enlightening me.

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Speaker 1: I was chatting with somebody this morning and sounds clachy

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Speaker 1: and not true. It's completely true. And I've been asked

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Speaker 1: a version of this question a lot, and it was

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Speaker 1: essentially it wasn't exactly this question, but it was kind

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Speaker 1: of what they were asking, which is essentially, how do

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Speaker 1: I find my purpose? Right? Like? What I'm the thing?

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Speaker 1: And it's just a really it's an interesting conversation that

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Speaker 1: I wanted to open up for both you and also

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Speaker 1: around that. So what's my purpose?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: Do I have one? Or maybe I have multiple purposes?

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Speaker 1: And what does that even mean? Purpose? Am I like

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Speaker 1: a utensil in my life? It feels like we just

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Speaker 1: have one thing that we are capable of doing. On

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Speaker 1: top of that, does my purpose stay the same or

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Speaker 1: can it change? Can it evolve? Was my purpose or

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Speaker 1: my focus or my life meaning or whatever? Twenty five

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Speaker 1: at twenty five the same as when I'm sixty two?

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Speaker 1: Does it need to be? Can I change my mind?

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Speaker 1: How do I find my purpose? Do I? Is it

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Speaker 1: some kind of spiritual or existential revelation or awareness that

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Speaker 1: happens upon me. Or is it just like I have

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Speaker 1: an experience or I just literally make a decision. What

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Speaker 1: do you what are your thoughts around I'm going to

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Speaker 1: start with you, actually, Tiff, What do you in terms

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Speaker 1: of when somebody says to you life purpose? What do

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Speaker 1: you think about? Do you think of a single thing,

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Speaker 1: multiple things, or you don't think about that in that

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Speaker 1: way at all.

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Speaker 2: I think it changes, and I think it I think

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Speaker 2: of multiple things because it's evolved over time. And I

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Speaker 2: think the more we learn and evolve and land in

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Speaker 2: new places and when I have a different outlook, Like

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Speaker 2: you know, when I was living in Tazzy, my purpose

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Speaker 2: was just grow up, get a job, make some money,

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Speaker 2: do the thing. And then I moved and then my

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Speaker 2: world opened up and I read some books and my

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Speaker 2: world changed and my purpose became different, and it was

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Speaker 2: it was a different version of that same thing. Like

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Speaker 2: I when I went to India last year and I

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Speaker 2: stood on that mountain and I went, oh, huh, you

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Speaker 2: think that you're doing life so differently? Or sometimes I

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Speaker 2: have conversations on these shows and I think to myself, oh,

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Speaker 2: you think you're doing life so differently. You think you've

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Speaker 2: broken the mold. You are the mold like you are.

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Speaker 2: You have not broken any molds. You're still do the

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Speaker 2: same versions of things that are just one point removed

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Speaker 2: from that little box that you initially.

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Speaker 1: Thought was Like, I feel like I'm going to ask

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Speaker 1: you in a sec Bobby, but I feel like for me,

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Speaker 1: for me, my purpose has to be bigger than me,

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Speaker 1: Like it can't really be. Of course, it's a bit

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Speaker 1: about me, but it's really a bit about me being

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Speaker 1: of that. And I know this sounds cliche and bullshitty,

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Speaker 1: but it's true for me being of service and value.

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Speaker 1: And you know, like even with this show, hopefully people

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Speaker 1: enjoy it, Hopefully people get something from it. Hopefully people

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Speaker 1: get a bit of enlightenment or a bit of enjoyment

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Speaker 1: or a bit of inspiration, and then hopefully they make

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Speaker 1: a decision or two and hopefully they take some action.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully they create some results that they may not have

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Speaker 1: created had they not intersected with the you project. Hopefully, right, So,

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Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, there's when I used to

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Speaker 1: want stuff for me that I think that was just

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Speaker 1: more about my focus and my self centered kind of

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Speaker 1: needs rather than a purpose. I don't know that I

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Speaker 1: even had a purpose when I was young, other than

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Speaker 1: just fucking looking after me, which really it doesn't you know,

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Speaker 1: to me, purpose has got to be beyond me and

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Speaker 1: bigger than me, I think, Bobby, I'll go on, Tiff, Sorry.

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Speaker 2: I was just going to ask you about that. When

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Speaker 2: do do you feel like there was a moment where

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Speaker 2: you really landed on that idea of it being bigger

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Speaker 2: than you?

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Speaker 1: Luck? Yeah, I think without reopening a door that's been

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Speaker 1: maybe too many times and listeners, apologies, but I think

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Speaker 1: once I started to open the let's just call it

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Speaker 1: the god door, where I just came became more interested

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Speaker 1: in or curious about, you know, is there anything beyond

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Speaker 1: what I can see and touch and feel and what

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Speaker 1: I think is and try, you know, like, what does

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Speaker 1: that mean? And I think, really for me, when I

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Speaker 1: became moderately successful, when I was moderately young, and I

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Speaker 1: was making you know, pretty good dough, and I had

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Speaker 1: a pretty good thing going on by the time I

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Speaker 1: was in my mid to late twenties. You know, I

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Speaker 1: wasn't rich, but I was, and even in the middle

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Speaker 1: of going great, I'm like, ah, this isn't bad. This

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Speaker 1: is definitely you know, my goal is not to make

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Speaker 1: less money, but clearly this isn't what it's about, because

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Speaker 1: I still the things that I felt, which is an

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Speaker 1: adequate and insecure and somewhat unfulfilled and periodically anxious and

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Speaker 1: a bit sad, and that was all still there. And

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Speaker 1: then I realized my revelation was when I focus more

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Speaker 1: on others, I'm less selfish. And also there's and it

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Speaker 1: almost sounds selfish, like doing something for others to get

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Speaker 1: something for you. But I just noticed that when I'm

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Speaker 1: not all about me, and when i'm you know, genuinely

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Speaker 1: trying to be of value and service to others, I'm

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Speaker 1: a better version of me. And so I try to,

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Speaker 1: you know, at least have that attitude through the day.

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Speaker 1: And of course sometimes I'm a selfish prick, and sometimes

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Speaker 1: I'm all about me, and sometimes I'm unaware. So I

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Speaker 1: acknowledge all of that, but I know for me personally,

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Speaker 1: absolutely unequivocally, that when I have a purpose bigger than me,

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Speaker 1: I'm just a much better human.

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Speaker 2: Can you remember last question? Can you remember the first

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Speaker 2: big other focused experience that really hamm'd a home?

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Speaker 1: Well, I've had quite a few. The earliest one or

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Speaker 1: just one does have to be the first one.

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Speaker 2: Just one, No, just one?

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Speaker 1: Well, I just think again without playing a broken record,

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Speaker 1: like working with Johnny for all the years. John's a

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Speaker 1: friend of mine. I know, my listeners know. But those

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Speaker 1: three of you who don't, who got literally blown up

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Speaker 1: in an industrial accident of work accident, some gas bottles

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Speaker 1: exploded and all that, and so eight years ago, it

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Speaker 1: was eight years ago, about three or four days ago,

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Speaker 1: you know, and just and you know him. How beautiful

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Speaker 1: is he? How amazing is he? Yeah? And I mean,

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Speaker 1: here's this guy who's got a traumatic brain injury. He's

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Speaker 1: got to put a thing up. He's a wizor to

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Speaker 1: have a whee. He's got a bag for pooh. He's

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Speaker 1: got a spinal cord. He knows. He doesn't mind me

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Speaker 1: talking about this, like he can't pooh, he can't where,

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Speaker 1: he can't have sex. He's in constant pain. He's got

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Speaker 1: a spinal cord injury. He's got a traumatic brain injury.

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Speaker 1: His life is I mean hard, doesn't come close, right,

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Speaker 1: Never complaints. You've probably been in the gym four five

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Speaker 1: hundred times when he trains. Never complaints, just doesn't plane.

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Speaker 1: And for me to be able to be to be

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Speaker 1: a tiny bit of something positive in his life gives

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Speaker 1: me so much more joy than anything I do for myself. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know so, Bobby, Sorry for leaving you over in

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Speaker 1: the virtual corner all that time.

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Speaker 3: It's not the first time it's happened. I mean, that's

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Speaker 3: the virtual corner. This is the first time in the

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Speaker 3: virtual corner. Feels a little bit different. I think everyone

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Speaker 3: has a purpose. I think we need to define it.

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Speaker 3: Like when we say purpose, what exactly are we talking about?

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Speaker 1: Good question I'm talking about.

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Speaker 3: When I say purpose, is what happens when you have

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Speaker 3: a strongly rooted value, something that's really meaningful to you.

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Speaker 3: Like let's say love of learning. That's something that is

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Speaker 3: meaningful to me, and when I engage in it, it

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Speaker 3: makes me feel more alive. Now when you go out

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Speaker 3: and you express that in the world. Let's say I'm

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Speaker 3: sitting around a coffee table and I'm sharing these ideas

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Speaker 3: that have deeply impacted me and I found them to

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Speaker 3: be valuable and they impact other people around me.

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Speaker 1: Not everyone around me.

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Speaker 3: Some people couldn't give a shit and wish I would

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Speaker 3: like shut up and stop going on about this book

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Speaker 3: I'm reading, but other people it impacts them in a

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Speaker 3: way that elevates their well being, either in the moment

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Speaker 3: or long term. And when you are expressing those values

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Speaker 3: in a way that impacts people to elevate their well being,

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Speaker 3: I believe that is your purpose.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So have you changed your mind or changed

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Speaker 1: your focus or change your trajectory along the way? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know I've changed my mind on many things, and

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Speaker 1: I've had to unlearned things and know and up to

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Speaker 1: things I got wrong. And but what about you?

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Speaker 2: Have you like?

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Speaker 1: Is are you pretty much just a twenty year older

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Speaker 1: version of the blow from two decades ago? Or are

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Speaker 1: you different? And if so, how and how is your

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Speaker 1: focus and your purpose and passion different?

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Speaker 3: If it is, I hope I've changed. I hope my

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Speaker 3: focus and lens is different. I'm not all that sure

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Speaker 3: that my values have shifted that much, although they do

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Speaker 3: shift year to year. I've taken I like the via

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Speaker 3: assessment from doctor Morton Seligman because it's coming from the

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Speaker 3: perspective that your highest values and your signature strengths are

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Speaker 3: one and the same. And I strongly believe that, and

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Speaker 3: I think that has a lot of utility to it. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: if you are living out a value consistently, you're probably

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Speaker 3: going to develop some skill. You're probably going to develop

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Speaker 3: some proficiency within that area, whether that shows up in

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Speaker 3: work or parenting. So I like that concept. So every

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Speaker 3: few years my value shift, but my highest values they

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Speaker 3: might shift in order a priority, but they stay fairly consistent.

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Speaker 1: Mm. Is there something, Tiff, Is there something over the

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Speaker 1: last I don't know how long that you've changed your

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Speaker 1: mind about that or you think you got wrong or

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Speaker 1: in the context of the big picture stuff life, how

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Speaker 1: you live, you know, maybe even values. Is there something

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Speaker 1: that you've changed your mind about there doesn't need to be,

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Speaker 1: So if there isn't just go no, not really.

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Speaker 2: But I think I have an awareness that I would

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Speaker 2: like to and am not yet stepping out to expand.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what I've experienced and what I where

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Speaker 2: I want to end up or what I want to do.

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Speaker 2: Like I just yeah, I don't know. I'm very aware

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Speaker 2: that I maybe to a degree, I love what I'm

397
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Speaker 2: doing and I love where I'm heading, but I I

398
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Speaker 2: don't know, I don't know what I'm trying.

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Speaker 1: How much of us? So all three of us get

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Speaker 1: in front of audiences, right, Yeah, I'm going to start

401
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Speaker 1: with you, Bobby, and then come back to you. TIF.

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Speaker 1: How much of what you talk about when you're in

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Speaker 1: front of a group, Bobby, is something that you read

404
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Speaker 1: or what we might call a quiet knowledge. You know,

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Speaker 1: you read it, you heard it, and you do a

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Speaker 1: lot of reading, and you've got a fucking incredible memory

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Speaker 1: that I don't have, So I'm forever jealous of your

408
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Speaker 1: amazing brain and your amazing memory. How much of what

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Speaker 1: you share, and I'm sure it varies a little, but

410
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Speaker 1: is just about stuff that you've learned acquiet knowledge research,

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Speaker 1: all that kind of theoretical stuff, which is also important.

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Speaker 1: And how much is just shit you've learned along the way,

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Speaker 1: like experiential stuff that you go, Okay, I've been through

414
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Speaker 1: a situation like that, and this is what happened and

415
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Speaker 1: this is how I figured it out.

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Speaker 3: When I'm at my best. It's one hundred percent in

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Speaker 3: both categories. There's no delineation because I bring in research.

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Speaker 3: It's because of my own personal experience and my connection

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Speaker 3: and what I'm looking to accomplish with the audience or

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Speaker 3: what journey I'm trying to take people on when I'm

421
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Speaker 3: not at my best, I tend to stick to, Okay, well,

422
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Speaker 3: what's the curriculum, what am I need to teach, what

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Speaker 3: research supports this, where's the evidence, where's the proof? I

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Speaker 3: think that when the connection is where it needs to be,

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Speaker 3: I bring all of myself into everything I say, regardless

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Speaker 3: of the context, regardless of whether it's empirical or anecdotal.

427
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Speaker 3: I am right there in the middle of everything that

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Speaker 3: I communicate.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a gain in that space where you know,

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Speaker 1: for one of a less wanky term, you feel like

431
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Speaker 1: you're in flow and just time time just kind of

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Speaker 1: becomes a different thing.

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Speaker 3: It's so funny because the answer to that used to be,

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Speaker 3: at a minimum fifty percent of the time, I would

435
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 3: say most of the things that I did work related

436
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 3: put me in a state of flap, like where I

437
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 3: would put my head down and I would be writing,

438
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 3: and I picked my head up, I'm like, God, it's

439
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 3: dark out and I started in the middle of the afternoon,

440
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 3: like I've literally been here for hours. It feels like

441
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 3: it's been fifteen minutes. On stage definitely, where I disappear

442
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 3: and I come to at the end of the presentation,

443
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 3: exhausted and feeling like, oh wow, that was that was amazing,

444
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 3: but having no experience of it being amazing while I'm

445
00:25:54,840 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 3: doing it. Lately, those flow experiences have been well, just decreasing.

446
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 1: That's saying that people have. You know, I've said it

447
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: and again apologized for the cheese for the gooda. It

448
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 1: doesn't come from me. It comes through me, right, and

449
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 1: sometimes not every second time, But there have been times

450
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: in my life where, especially one time, I just had

451
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: this kind of I hope it's not at once in

452
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: a lifetime experience, but it was fucking amazing. It was

453
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: I don't know what it was, just it was spiritual.

454
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 1: It was like when I was at Tiff, you were there.

455
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: I think at Deacon maybe you were there, and there

456
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: was seven hundred odd people and three hours went like

457
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: thirty minutes, and I looked up at one stage and

458
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: there were four hundred of the seven hundred people balling,

459
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: and one minute later laughing, and that time flew and

460
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: I had people lined up for an hour and yes,

461
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: all that feels good for your ego, but some thing

462
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 1: happened that was way more powerful than me, and I'm like,

463
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: fucking hell, I don't even know how to do that again.

464
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: And then when everyone went and it was a long time,

465
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: so maybe we finished at five, and every probably six

466
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: point thirty everyone had gone. Melissa and I were just

467
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: I think, picking up like fucking cans from around the

468
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: auditorium or whatever, and that we got the first moment

469
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 1: together where we could just chat without people around. And

470
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 1: she goes to me, what on earth was that? And

471
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 1: I go, I don't know. She goes, she calls me Bro.

472
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,959
Speaker 1: She goes, Bro, there's like that was She goes, I

473
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 1: can't even explain that. I go, I can't explain that.

474
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: That wasn't the skill, that wasn't talent, that wasn't Craig's brain,

475
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: that wasn't Craig the storyteller. And I know some people

476
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: are going to go, you're a fucking idiot, and I

477
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 1: understand you thinking that, but I'm telling you there was

478
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: something going on that was way bigger than me on

479
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: that day. I fucking so I would do one of

480
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: those every day for zero dollars for the rest of

481
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: my life, to be able to get in that space

482
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: and do that thing with people, and have that level

483
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 1: of connection with a room full of humans where it

484
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: seems like all the individuality and all the separation and

485
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: all the apartners melts away. It's like there's just this

486
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 1: one breathing soul in the room. Oh fuck, I'm so good,

487
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: so good. Wow. Have you had that TIF or something

488
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: like that where you get to that point where you're

489
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: like you kind of lose yourself a bit?

490
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I even to some degree in podcast conversations, I

491
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 2: feel that can happen where you just kick off and

492
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: end up in some unexpected place, or take have people

493
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 2: arriving at a space where you're sharing something so deep

494
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 2: and introspective and vulnerable, and there's just an energy.

495
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: To it, isn't it? And isn't isn't that Like we

496
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: shouldn't say this because this is podcast secrets everyone, but

497
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: some guests it's like, oh fucking hell, I want to

498
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: punch myself in the face. This is just this forty

499
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: five minutes feels like two painful hours. Right, you both

500
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: had Bobby's got his shut up, Bobby's got his own show,

501
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: so he's But then there are other people where you

502
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: fall into this vortex and you don't want it to stop.

503
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: And I'm like, this is this hour and a half

504
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: and it's normally forty five and I look up it's

505
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: an hour and a half. I'm like, it's not enough time,

506
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: And you know, yeah, that is. It is so funny.

507
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: Obviously time is a constant, but the way that we

508
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: experience time is a variable. And it's it's so incredible

509
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: how much that experience can vary.

510
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think when we surrender to it, like the

511
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 2: thinking part of present and speaking and planning like is

512
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 2: so not me. And I've had people give feedback on

513
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 2: a particular episode that they have really loved and connected with,

514
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 2: and the feedback they give me is around that intuitive

515
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 2: nature of the way I will listen and ask a

516
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 2: question particular questions and the space I create and I

517
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 2: listen to that feedback and I value it so much,

518
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 2: but I don't know. I'm like, okay, so that happens sometimes,

519
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 2: I don't know how many of the times, and it's

520
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 2: really special. But I don't know how to create it

521
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 2: or recreate it or teach it. I just have to

522
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 2: show up and trust it. And it's it's beautiful, but

523
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 2: also I guess a bit frustrating because you can't go, well,

524
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: if I do this, this and this, I'll always be

525
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 2: like that or I can teach people how to be

526
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 2: like this.

527
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 3: Wow, So you don't know how you do it?

528
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 2: No, No, because I don't think of questions. I don't.

529
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: It's a two piece puzzle, right, you can't. You know,

530
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: we had a very famous person on this show. I'll

531
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: tell you both who later. Tif you might know off

532
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: the top of you had very famous wrote one of

533
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: the most famous books of the nineteen eighties and nineties.

534
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: He wrote a couple of versions, super Famous. You would

535
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: all know his name, Farck and terrible Fark. Want to

536
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: punch myself in the face. Couldn't couldn't publish it. It

537
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,479
Speaker 1: was so bad, and it was like, God, bless him.

538
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 1: That sounds I'm not trying to be mean, but it

539
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: was just it was just a clunky, uncomfortable, awkward conversation

540
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, we And I was so excited

541
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: because I'm like, well, this is this person's got a profile.

542
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: This we're going to get this is good. But yeah,

543
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: that's yeah. I think sometimes Bobby, there's just like there's

544
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: you and another person or person's in that moment. There's

545
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: a just a chemistry and maybe you can't plan it

546
00:31:58,360 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: or orchestrate it.

547
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 3: And I think that there's so many variables to that

548
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 3: to even try to unpack what creates that chemistry, that

549
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 3: resonance between two people. I mean, we could, but when

550
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 3: you're on stage and there is there is a resonance

551
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:21,239
Speaker 3: there with people, there is there is something being communicated

552
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 3: in a different way, but the communication is present. If

553
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 3: somebody asked you, like, how do you get into that space,

554
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 3: that transcendent moment where Melissa was giving you that feedback

555
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 3: like what happened?

556
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: Yes, what would be your answer? I wish I had

557
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: a three step kind of I don't really, but I

558
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: do know that, like for me, there's a fine line

559
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: between how much I plan and how much I don't plan.

560
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: If I overplan, I'm generally not good. I've got stories

561
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: about where I planned like a motherfucker and I was horrible, horrible.

562
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have had me on my own podcast, that's

563
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: how bad I was, right, and then other times where

564
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: I didn't give it enough thought and I was also horrible.

565
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: So I think it's funny because the day that this

566
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: sounds weird, I don't even want to say this, but

567
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: I'm going to be transparent. The day that that thing happened,

568
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: I remember that one day I sat in my little

569
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: car at Deacon and I prayed before I went in.

570
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: And it wasn't a you know, dear Lord God. You know.

571
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,959
Speaker 1: It was just like, like, I don't want this to

572
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: be about me. I want it to be only about them,

573
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: you know, not my ego, not my brand, not my this,

574
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: not my that, like I just wanted. I I feel

575
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: like my intention makes a difference and my presence going

576
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: in and if I'm all about telling dick jokes and

577
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: being hilarious and just you know, using my skills and

578
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: my risma and my experience and my personality, I tend

579
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: to be worse. I tend to be worse. It's not

580
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: to say that you shouldn't use those things, but you know,

581
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: I think there's something much more powerful than all of

582
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: those things I just spoke of, and it's trying to

583
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: get into that space or that level of operation.

584
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 3: There's got to be something to that, because I feel

585
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 3: when I and my audiences were getting the most out

586
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 3: of me in my career, I would frequently pray before

587
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 3: every session, yeah, the same thing, like get me out

588
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 3: of this, please, like remove me and my ego from

589
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 3: this presentation. So I don't go in there as if

590
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 3: there's a skill that I've developed that is the most

591
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 3: important influential factor in what people get from this.

592
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you can even do the same thing

593
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: when you're just going into a meeting. I've done it

594
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 1: when I'm going to meet somebody one on one and

595
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: I get a heads up that this could be difficult

596
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: and complicated and not an easy hour, where I kind of,

597
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: you know, I just want to make sure that whatever

598
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: energy that I bring into that moment, that it is

599
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: the best energy for them and for the situation. And yeah,

600
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: if I just have that little moment for me, it's

601
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 1: about one minute, if that thirty seconds, one minute where

602
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: I just take a breath like I just did, and

603
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: just get out of my own bullshit and realize that

604
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: I'm not great. I'm just lucky. Like there's nothing about

605
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: me that's great. And people go, don't say that. I'm like,

606
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: there isn't there really isn't. You know. I can try

607
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 1: hard and work hard and doesn't mean I'm a bad human,

608
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: but you know, I am just super duper fortunate that

609
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: I was born in a great country, a great time.

610
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: I had great friends, I lived in a great environment,

611
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:05,439
Speaker 1: some of the things that I've done over the time

612
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,399
Speaker 1: have worked out well, some not. But you know, it's

613
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: like I've literally for sixty years had almost fucking no

614
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: adversity compared to what a lot of people have.

615
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 3: So I feel like if you don't have that balance perspective,

616
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 3: Like earlier, I was being a little bit facetious around

617
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 3: the Thanksgiving holiday here, and it's not a lot of

618
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 3: people hear me say that and like, oh, that's so negative,

619
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 3: Like you cannot say anything negative about you or a

620
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 3: holiday or port your heritage. And I think as a

621
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 3: culture and as individuals, taking a sobering, honest look at yourself, yeah,

622
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 3: it is in no way degrading to yourself. I think

623
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 3: it's a necessary aspect of self care, like looking at

624
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 3: what are the things that I do well, what are

625
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 3: the times where my efforts, my decisions, intentions facilitated something

626
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 3: pretty good?

627
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: And when have.

628
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 3: There been times when it's been the opposite? Because you

629
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 3: can learn from both. And then to go back to

630
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 3: your statement, acknowledging hey, I am lucky does not mean

631
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 3: that what you're doing is insignificant. It's no, there have

632
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 3: been a series of circumstances that given everything else being

633
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 3: equal with all my work, ethic, talent and skills and mindset.

634
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 1: I want to I still want to.

635
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 3: Have gotten to do what I'm doing right now. It

636
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 3: wouldn't have matters. It doesn't take anything away from us

637
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 3: to give credit to others and to give credit to

638
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:52,439
Speaker 3: circumstances and to and a little bit of self criticism.

639
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I see, Yeah, I totally concur your honor

640
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: for me is about just on a self awareness. It's

641
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: not self loathing at all. It's just acknowledging what is Like.

642
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: I've had conversations Tiff and I had a moment I

643
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,399
Speaker 1: don't know a long time, well, eight months, I don't fuck,

644
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: I don't know where we There was about a month

645
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 1: where we just didn't get on, right, I mean we

646
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: it was it was just weird. And then I kind

647
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 1: of I was a little bit like, fuck Tiff, fucking Tiff,

648
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 1: fucking Tiff is fucking so problematic, right, and then she

649
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: was probably going harps as a cunt, which is not

650
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: that far from the truth. So all right, so she's

651
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: pretty insightful.

652
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 3: It's like, stop sending me these texts.

653
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: Jeez. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just before I'm about to not

654
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 1: off to bed ever count anyway, you men, anyway for

655
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: our one remoting listener, You're welcome. Don't play this to

656
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: my mum. But like, there was stuff that I needed

657
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: to just go, ah, so here's what I'm doing wrong.

658
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: Not like oh yeah, but you didn't mean it, but

659
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: you know it's like, well maybe maybe not, Like you know,

660
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: there are just things that I do that don't work.

661
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: There are you know, there are times when something is

662
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 1: problematic and most of the problem is me. There are

663
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: times when most of the problem isn't me, But there

664
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 1: are friendly times, definitely times when it's me. And that's

665
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: not throwing yourself under a bus or beating yourself up.

666
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: I think that's just fucking great self awareness. And it's like, well,

667
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: I need to acknowledge the things that I'm doing badly

668
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: or poorly so that I can do them better. That

669
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: doesn't mean I hate me, that doesn't mean I'm a

670
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: bad human. That means I actually do want to get better.

671
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: And I can't get better at the things that I

672
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: won't acknowledge. I'm shit at right. And it's like my

673
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: old trope that I wheel out, which is everyone wants

674
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: feedback until you give them feedback, They don't want right

675
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: because they don't really want feedback unless it's praise. You know,

676
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: it's a round of applause.

677
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 3: Or a pat on the back, and everything that's not

678
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 3: consensus and praise is not gaslighting any any type of

679
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 3: critical feedback is. I mean it could be that very

680
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 3: well could be what's happening, but not always. And if

681
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 3: everybody around you is gaslighting you constantly, it's not that

682
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 3: you're in a manipulative environment. It's maybe that you know

683
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,359
Speaker 3: you're not willing to face certain aspects of your person

684
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 3: because things could never be everybody else all the time.

685
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just like yeah, and they will probably never

686
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: be you all the time. I like this kind of

687
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: kind of thinking, an awareness. And again I've spoken about

688
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: this twenty times, apologies, but it's worth including because it's relevant.

689
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: But you know, as a young gym instructor and then

690
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: as a young personal trainer. So I'm on the floor

691
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: with people and I'm seeing most of my clients three

692
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: times a week, so you are literally and you've both

693
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: done this because we have very similar backstories. But where

694
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: you see old mate three days a week, so three

695
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: days a week for one for an hour, one on

696
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: one you and her or you and he are chatting

697
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: like that's more than I speak to my mum. That's

698
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 1: more than I speak to me. You know. It's like,

699
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: this is where you're having these and sometimes like I

700
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: had one lady Pauline that I trained for sixteen years

701
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: six hours a week, so it's six hours a week

702
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: of one on one conversation interaction on and knew her

703
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: incredibly well. Right. But my long winded point is when invariably,

704
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: when I would talk to people about problems that they

705
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: were having in their life, they never saw themselves as

706
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: the problem. They always saw themselves as the victim and

707
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,919
Speaker 1: someone or something else as the cause. Now, sometimes that's

708
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: going to be true, but it can't be fucking true

709
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: all the time. And when I would even dare to

710
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 1: suggest that there seems to be a lot of these

711
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 1: problems on planet you with a lot of different people,

712
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,919
Speaker 1: and you seem to be the constant, it's like, yeah,

713
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: that would not go down well at all. Or you know,

714
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: the amount of times where people would talk about their

715
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: partner to me and it would invariably be more negative

716
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 1: than positive, where they would be commenting on their relationship

717
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: and him or her and they wouldn't be saying positive things,

718
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: and people go, oh, that's it's fucking true. In fact,

719
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 1: I would say in my case it was eighty to

720
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 1: ninety percent unless they're just talking about incidental we went

721
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: to a barbecue on the weekend. But if they were

722
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: actually talking about their partner and about their relationship, it

723
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 1: was always or it was most of the time more

724
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: negative than positive. And I just think that just doesn't

725
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: work in any context for any person. You know, So

726
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, Tiff, it's your turn say something brilliant, amazing,

727
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 1: no pressure.

728
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 2: I think. I think it's interesting in friendships and relationships

729
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 2: how we like like reflecting on you and I and

730
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 2: how we avoid this is typical like I've been on

731
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 2: in the University of This the last few years of

732
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 2: trying to be better at being open and honest in

733
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 2: friendships and relationships and say how I feel and say

734
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 2: and have conversations. But that idea of rupture and repair,

735
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 2: and I think put that into context of the amount

736
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 2: of relationships like the ones you're talking about, where people

737
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 2: have their person and they've fallen in love and they

738
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 2: have them in their life for a whole lot of time,

739
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 2: and then there's these friction points, and rather than resolving

740
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 2: them with the person, there's something that makes us avoid,

741
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 2: Like I would make assumptions, and you would make assumptions

742
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 2: about and we have this story about Tips doing this,

743
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 2: Harps is doing that, and this is and I make

744
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 2: a decision about why you're doing that because I've got

745
00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 2: all these bullshit triggers and insecurities, so I can a

746
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,839
Speaker 2: narrative to that, and then it's easier to walk away

747
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 2: and prove myself right that everyone's just an asshole at

748
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 2: some point. No one's ever going to hang around forever.

749
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,360
Speaker 2: Yet you have a conversation with me. I hear you,

750
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 2: You hear me. We have a think about it, and

751
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 2: the friendship has never been stronger. And like want a lesson,

752
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 2: But why do you think, in general, so many humans

753
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 2: this is why we have counselism and couple's COUNSELORSM why

754
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 2: can't we just do that? What stops us?

755
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: I think, Well, Bobby, well, I think fear and EO

756
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:37,399
Speaker 1: and insecurity and we you know it is hard too,

757
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: It is hard to go, hey, we had this thing

758
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 1: and I was mostly the problem. So I'm sorry, you know,

759
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 1: and it's like I'm better and better at that over

760
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: the years, because I've had to do it a lot,

761
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: you know, where I you know, it's like I know,

762
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 1: well ergo in my PhD. It's like it's really been

763
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 1: a valuable journey for me to try to understand and

764
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 1: what the fuck it is like being around me for

765
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: other humans, and for some humans being around me is

766
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: fun and nice and enjoyable and positive, but not for everyone.

767
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: And I can't just go, oh, they're all pricks. Well, no,

768
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: it's probably in my interest to try to understand, you know.

769
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 1: And that doesn't mean it's always I'm always going to

770
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: be problematic. But you know, it's like that old chestnut

771
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 1: of Craig, you're intimidating, And I'm like, I'm not intimidating.

772
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: Who fucking said that, you know? And then oh, yeah,

773
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 1: that's right, I am intimidating. You know. It's like trying

774
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: to understand and realize that whatever people's experience of you is,

775
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 1: then that is for them, one hundred percent their experience.

776
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter that your intention is good because their

777
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: experience is not your intention. Now that doesn't mean you

778
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: have yeah, or their experience is not your intention, and

779
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that you've got to agree with them,

780
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,479
Speaker 1: but you need to understand them, you know. And even

781
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: down to when I talked to my mom last night

782
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 1: at her birthday. I was trying to talk about a

783
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:17,919
Speaker 1: few medical things about Dad with her, and I'm like thinking, Fuck,

784
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,760
Speaker 1: how do I say this in a way that won't

785
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 1: terrify her but also will absolutely make sense and also

786
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: weave in a little bit of hope, you know. And

787
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:32,399
Speaker 1: so all of this is going through my mind as

788
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to download information. You know, how do

789
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 1: I make this mary friendly? How do I make this

790
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,359
Speaker 1: not terrifying? How do I make it accurate? So I'm

791
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: not just saying bullshit? But and you know, also in

792
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: the moment, what is this like what I'm saying to

793
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: my mum? What is this like for her right now?

794
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:53,800
Speaker 1: You know?

795
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 2: So I think it takes so long to know ourselves

796
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 2: as well as we have this emotional reaction, and then

797
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 2: we before we have a chance to really explore it,

798
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 2: we make a decision on the most logical reason that

799
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 2: comforts us as to why it takes place. Oh, I

800
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 2: feel this. It's obviously because they're an asshole. They deliberately

801
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 2: did that, But we don't explore what about that thing

802
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 2: that just happened just made an emotion come up in me?

803
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 2: What's the real story about that, what action occurred? And

804
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 2: then what in the experience represented that in the moment

805
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 2: that just happened, because that's what it was. The case

806
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 2: has been the case for me over the years, is going, oh,

807
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 2: when people turn up five minutes late, I turn in,

808
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 2: I have a huge emotional reaction. What's that all about?

809
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,959
Speaker 2: Because now I just because it turns me into someone

810
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,360
Speaker 2: that thinks that nobody cares. And that's because this emotional

811
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 2: switch that flips and there's its story, and it's like, well,

812
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 2: none of that story is true. But obviously somewhere along

813
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 2: the way you have this not matter hurt button, according

814
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:04,840
Speaker 2: to doctor Bill just saying that's one of yeah, and

815
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 2: that's one of the ones that flips it.

816
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know about you, Bobby, but I

817
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: always thought I was What pushes my buttons over the

818
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 1: years is when people thought I was stupid or not

819
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: very intelligent or you know whatever. Because I thought I

820
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: was stupid and I thought I was unintelligent, and so

821
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 1: I would, yeah, I would be very different because it's

822
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,720
Speaker 1: like they would just tell it was really just consolidating

823
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 1: and confirming, Yeah, you're right, I am fucking stupid, and

824
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 1: yeah I would respond to that way more than you

825
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 1: know what they said about my body. Like I was

826
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: pretty obsessed with my body and my appearance because I

827
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: was wildly fucking insecure, had all the issues, but I

828
00:48:55,360 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: was also insecure about you know, like I people for

829
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 1: years make fun of where I grew up. Shout out

830
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: to Moey, love mey, you know, and and even now

831
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 1: you know, not so much, but like do you own

832
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:14,800
Speaker 1: anything other than a flannel shirt or a black T

833
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: shirt or and so that thing of I mean, it's

834
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 1: really interesting because on one hand, I have people who

835
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 1: have me on a pedestal, which maybe they shouldn't, I

836
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: don't know. But at the same time, other people who

837
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: think I'm just a lucky, fucking idiot who's done. Okay,

838
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: you know what about you, Bobby?

839
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 3: You know, earlier you said that these patterns have a

840
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 3: lot to do with fear, ego and insecurity, and of course,

841
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,800
Speaker 3: but I think we're getting into it now a little

842
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 3: bit where many people, not everybody, but many people are

843
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 3: scared shitless and they don't have anything figured out. I

844
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 3: think Where we get our security from is our mental

845
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 3: models and these belief systems, and if something can't tr

846
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:06,879
Speaker 3: one of those belief systems, it adds to the anxiety

847
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:11,359
Speaker 3: of enormous uncertainty. I think that becomes the problem where

848
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 3: I am I'm unwilling to examine certain things about myself

849
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:21,359
Speaker 3: because the answer can be terrified. Now you just talking about,

850
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,359
Speaker 3: like why does she get upset when people arrive five

851
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 3: minutes late? And punctuality is a very important thing for me. Yes,

852
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 3: I've been telling that. I've been reading about the story

853
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 3: of ebenez a Scrooge. It's a classic. I've been telling

854
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,800
Speaker 3: that story lately, or attempting to because it's that season.

855
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 3: And when you look at that story, you see a

856
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 3: lot of you see a lot of these deeper layers

857
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 3: where the Scrooge were introduced to in the beginning of

858
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 3: the story. Is not the authentic Scrooge. I mean, we're

859
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 3: kind of starting in the middle of the story there,

860
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 3: and then, of course, with the ghost of Christmas Past,

861
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 3: we go back to the beginning. Scrooge seemed like he

862
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 3: was a very sensitive, caring kid who had crippling abandonment

863
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 3: issues because his father was horribly neglectful and cruel, punitive,

864
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 3: you know.

865
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 1: Not a nice guy at all.

866
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 3: And every Christmas at boarding school, he had this crippling

867
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 3: level of loneliness because all the kids, all of them

868
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,879
Speaker 3: went back home to be with their families. His dad

869
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 3: didn't even think enough of them to spend Christmas with them,

870
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:37,919
Speaker 3: which made Christmas particularly painful. And this guy grows. I mean, like, wow,

871
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 3: how petty and greedy is this individual. It's like, no,

872
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 3: he's terrified. He has this avoidant attachment style that emerged

873
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 3: out of a fear of abandonment. And people are they

874
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 3: can't be counted on, but numbers can, money can. Yeah,

875
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 3: that's quite consistent. And so he develops this personality not

876
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 3: out of evil, but out of loneliness. And then he

877
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 3: has to defend that. He has to justify why his

878
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 3: worldview is correct, why he's uncaring, why he is the

879
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 3: way he is. And then you see at the end

880
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:23,439
Speaker 3: where it's the readiness to change that takes so long.

881
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 3: Change itself is kind of rapid, and you see that

882
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 3: with Scrooge. He starts, Yeah, he starts changing his behaviors,

883
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden he has all of the

884
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 3: things that he's been deprived of all the things that

885
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:42,400
Speaker 3: he's probably wanted and the answer wasn't in his story,

886
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 3: But we hang on to those stories.

887
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think also that people like

888
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: talking about beliefs and stories that we all have beliefs

889
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 1: and stories that we didn't choose. They're just to buy

890
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: productive life and experiences and interaction and programming and conditioning

891
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah fill in the blank. Do you

892
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 1: think that those things, to an extent, those stories and

893
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: those beliefs and that programming becomes our identity. So that's

894
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 1: who we are, that's who we are.

895
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:17,800
Speaker 3: And justify that story, don't you.

896
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: And then when you question my story, you question who

897
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: I am because my story and my belief is essentially

898
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:29,720
Speaker 1: intertwined with my sense of self. So when you attack

899
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 1: me for being a vegan or a Christian or a

900
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 1: Arsenal United supporter or whatever, you know, then you're attacking

901
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: my sense of self. And so, you know, it's very

902
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,399
Speaker 1: hard when you've had beliefs for a lifetime or most

903
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 1: of a lifetime, to even consider the fact that maybe

904
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: that's a flawed belief, or maybe that story is not true,

905
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 1: maybe that story is a limitation that's holding me back.

906
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 1: Maybe it's kind of true, but not completely. I think

907
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: that's the you know, the million dollar question is, you know,

908
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:09,280
Speaker 1: can are you objective? Are you open minded? And everybody

909
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 1: says yes, I am, but the truth is nobody is.

910
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:14,959
Speaker 3: So I think that's a deeper layer.

911
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 1: True.

912
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 3: You have this need for certainty and these narratives, these

913
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 3: mental models are where you believe you drive the certainty from,

914
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 3: or maybe you're not even aware of it, so then

915
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 3: you have it's so precarious to challenge these belief systems

916
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 3: you have, and then you go deeper and it's like no, no, no, no,

917
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 3: these aren't even your beliefs. These are beliefs that have

918
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:44,360
Speaker 3: been given to you. So I'm defending beliefs now that

919
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:48,320
Speaker 3: are not even my own. That's an interesting dynamic.

920
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, well they almost well they kind of yeah, I

921
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: know exactly what you're saying, so they'd become you know,

922
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: it's like you put on someone else's jumper and now

923
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 1: you're like, no, this is my jumper. It's like you

924
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 1: put on your cousin's jumper or whatever it is. I

925
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: was going to say Cardigan who wears cardigans, But yeah,

926
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:13,319
Speaker 1: it's almost like they get socially by social obs osmosis.

927
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 1: These become your beliefs. Now you're thinking, now your story

928
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 1: is now just because of proximity to that.

929
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 3: For so long, I'd be nothing without this, Jumper, It's

930
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 3: not even yours. You're so mostly attached to it, Jumper,

931
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 3: I don't even know who I am.

932
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 1: Always good to talk, Sunshine. Bobby's podcast is called The

933
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 1: Self Help Antidote. You can find him also at Robert

934
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,720
Speaker 1: Caapuccio dot com. Am I correct with that this is true?

935
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: And you can find him on LinkedIn and you can

936
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 1: find him on most street corners on a Saturday night

937
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 1: near his house in some kind of frock usually, and

938
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 1: also on Instagram street corners, Oh please, just some street corners.

939
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cook has also a podcast called Roll with

940
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:12,280
Speaker 1: the Punches. She can also be found on Instagram Tiffany

941
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 1: and Co. She can be found also at her house

942
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 1: just with her pets, or the cookie shop or the

943
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 1: cookie Shop? Did I miss out anything you too? Is

944
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 1: there anything you want to throw in?

945
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 3: Had a major falling out over chocolate quantity once?

946
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 1: Well, thanks for throwing that in at the end. Did

947
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 1: you resolve it?

948
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 3: While yeah, I think we're getting on really well. I'm

949
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 3: not she probably still hates me.

950
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 1: I don't even want to ask. Bobby. We'll say goodbye, Affair,

951
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:51,280
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you who that guest was right now, Tiff,

952
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 1: thank you, Bobby, thank you,