WEBVTT - Face to face with Australia’s cannibal killer: Robert Wells Pt.1 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:04.960 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:07.880 Detective see a side of life the average person is 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:11.160 never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:14.120 For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers. 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:16.280 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:20.599 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys, said, 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.200 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:26.480 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:28.840 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:31.520 and honest, just like the people I talked to. Some 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:34.680 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:37.720 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.559 Join me now as I take you into this world. 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:49.440 Welcome to another episode of I Catch Killers. When today's 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:52.040 guest and I finished the detective's training course back in 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:55.000 nineteen ninety, we were young, fresh faced, and ready to 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:58.840 take on the world as newly designated detectives. We had 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.080 no idea where our care we're going to take us, 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:04.959 but we're excited. Our paths went off in different directions, 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:07.600 but we got to see things in life most people 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:10.120 don't get to see or experience. That's just part of 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:14.840 being a detective. Today's guest, retired Detective Sergeant Bob Wells, 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:17.679 has had an interesting career. He worked in the country 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:20.720 at one man police stations. He worked as a detective 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:23.560 in country areas and also as a rescue squad operator, 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:26.640 and he also led a homicide investigation they have to 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:29.880 say was one of the most brutal and macabre murders 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:34.000 I've heard about in my entire time in homicide. I'm 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:36.800 talking about the murder of John Price by his partner 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:40.720 Katherine Knight. Katherine Knight is the first woman in Australia 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:43.640 to be given a life sentence without parole. When you 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:46.399 hear about the nature of the crime, you'll understand why 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:49.720 Boby's going to talk to us about his career and 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.600 the personal price is paid as a frontline police officer. 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:55.880 And I also think a listener warning is probably appropriate 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:58.600 here given the nature of the crime Bob will be discussing. 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:01.360 Bob Wells, welcome. Do I catch killers? 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:03.400 Thanks Garry well I got. 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:06.520 To say, last time it could be. The last time 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:10.000 was probably when we walked out as newly designated detectives 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:12.520 back in nineteen ninety ninety ninety. 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:14.639 That was it. Yes, Yes, I was pretty proud of 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:15.440 myself that day. 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:16.760 It was a big day, wasn't it. 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:19.880 Well, I'm not an academically inclined guy, so the ex 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:21.080 course for me was quite hard. 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:25.000 Well, we had that conversation the other day and I 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:26.800 wanted to raise it with you because I didn't want 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:28.480 to say it if you said no, it was easy. 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:30.840 That was a very very hard course. 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:33.320 It was. I think it was the last course. It 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:35.240 was actually held in Sydney before it moved to the 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:35.880 Academy in. 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:40.760 Goldban And I remember, and we're talking about it the 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.480 other day that if you failed the exams or the 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:45.320 brief of evidence that you had to put through your 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:47.320 cut from the course, that's it. You're given the tap 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:48.919 on the shoulder and said see you later. 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.360 They come Monday, and I think it's changed and so dramatically. 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:56.400 Actually, yeah, yeah, we were talking about the Detective's Course 0:02:56.840 --> 0:03:00.440 a couple of episodes back, and yeah, they that they 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:04.000 were graded or designated. But I've got to say with 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.399 the course, when you did walk out as a detective, 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:08.320 then that was one of my proudest moments in the 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:10.280 cops because you had the work so hard for it. 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:12.760 Oh you did, Yeah, one hundred percent. Like I said, 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:17.360 I wasn't academically inclined, And I guess the roots behind 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.200 that was I went to high school for two reasons. 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.560 One was to see my mates in sport. Yeah, so 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:24.760 I wasn't academically. 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:26.880 You look back at those days and think, jeez, we 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:28.800 could have paid a little bit more attention. But I 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:32.560 understand where you where you're coming from. But yeah, well 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:34.480 walking out there. That's not to say that we didn't 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:38.080 have fun. But I still do not remember studying as 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:40.360 hard as I studied during those six weeks because it 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:42.560 was done in two blocks. But the final six weeks, 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:46.080 I think and just study every night every weekend. 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:48.520 Well, I was down from the country, so and I 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:49.880 think it was half a dozen of us, and we 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:50.280 were at the. 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:51.920 Old you had the party house. 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:54.120 We had the party or part of units. Yeah. Yeah, 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:56.600 but and we said had a little bit of fun 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:58.480 at night. I mean a lot of the inner city 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:01.040 guys sort of went home, but a lot stayed on 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:04.160 and we had quite a few great nights at the 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:07.960 old Elizabeth Hotel. Yeah, just across the road. So a 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:10.200 lot of fun has had. It was a lot of 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:12.600 fun was had. Yeah, it was good, But getting back 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:16.320 to that the serious side of it, it was taxing 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:16.599 for me. 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:19.200 Yeah. Well no, I found it the same way. And 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:21.400 the fact that you talked about drinking it seemed to 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:24.800 be synonymous with life as a detective and working hard 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.040 and drinking hard back in those days. 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:31.120 But yeah, idea it was. It was part of the culture. 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:33.760 Yeah, I think that's a way of putting it. The culture. 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:36.800 Now we got so much to so much to talk 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:39.160 about your career and your career in the country and 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.560 working in the one man station. Your career is a detective. 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:46.000 But one of the cases that your career is going 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:47.760 to be linked with, whether you like it or not, 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:52.800 is the murder of John Price by Catherine Knight. Yes, 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.600 and that was back in two thousand and I got 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:59.279 to say, it's one of the most brutal, macabre murders 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:04.240 heard about when all my time in homicide. We're going 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:06.120 to delve deeply into that because I want you to 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:08.920 take us on the whole journey through the investigation, because 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:13.000 you led that investigation and Catherine Knight is now convicted 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.359 of the murder and has been sentenced to life imprisonment. 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:19.839 With no parole. Can you just tell us just to 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:21.880 get a sense of it, what you discovered when you 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:23.520 first went to that crime soon. 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:28.280 Well, basically the crime scene was fairly horrific. It was 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:34.400 there was a lot of blood, which you would imagine 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.520 would be in such a thing. But what struck me was, 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:41.640 I mean, I've done us a couple of stabbing murders 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:44.120 during my career. A stab as a stab, you know, 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.840 once or twice, but the number of stabbings and then 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:56.039 the sheer calculated removal of someone's complete skin and the 0:05:56.080 --> 0:06:02.440 capitation is something that you think about how crafted and 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:04.440 how skilled a person would have been it would have 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:07.440 done that, how long it would have taken, why it 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:11.159 was done, and the consequences that it was going to 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:13.440 hold for myself and my workmates as a result of 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:14.200 that investigation. 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:17.159 Yeah, so that's what you were confronted with when you've 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.760 come into the crime scene, that someone has literally been 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:22.960 decapitated but also skinned. 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:27.440 Completely, and I think you think it was to see 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:31.039 someone's full whether you'd call it a pelt or a 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:35.200 skin just hanging on a butcher's hook in a doorway 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.360 is just a very confronting situation. 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.800 Okay, Well, look, we'll probably start off on a low 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:43.520 talking about that because it's horrific crime, and I want 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.200 to talk a little bit about the victim in that 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:50.159 because it shouldn't it shouldn't be forgotten. But the investigation, 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.000 how it played out, and what your impressions of Catherine 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.080 and I were, because you got to got to interview 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:59.040 her in an understanding of it. So let's lighten it 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:03.520 up a little bit. And before we get into that, cops, 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:05.080 you came from a policing family. 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:07.919 My father was a police officer. He was a motorcycle 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:13.800 the oldest TP before the High Patrol was renamed or 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:19.000 rebadged so as they say. And then his brother, my uncle, 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:22.960 was also in the police force. But so I sort 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:28.320 of grew up around cops, mainly through the social outings 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.160 of my parents, my father, those sorts of things. I 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:34.000 was always around cops. So it was it wasn't strange 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:39.560 to me, but it wasn't exactly something that I aspired 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:41.600 to because of that situation. 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:43.960 Right, So it was you were familiar with it, but 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:46.360 it wasn't that you didn't wake up and say, I'll 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:47.200 grow up. 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:49.200 Yeah, I want to be like some kids group and 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:51.280 they want to be a want to be a fire 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:52.600 and they want to be a policeman, they want to 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:55.080 be whatever. I never had. That was probably one of 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:58.240 the last things that ended into my mind as a career. 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:00.360 So what swung you there? 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:01.760 What's fun me there? 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:02.000 Was? 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:04.040 I was quite happy where I was working at the time, 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:09.160 and I wasn't a straight out of school graduate into 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:11.760 the police. I wasn't an ex cadet. I actually didn't 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:14.680 sort of move towards thinking about joining the police until 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:18.440 I was twenty one, and then it was through conversations 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:21.840 with my father about I wanted to back back in 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:23.520 the seven nineteen seventy He said, it wasn't a lot 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:27.880 of superannuation around for people, and I always sort of 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:31.040 wanted to have to look to my future for myself 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:34.760 and my family in relation to financial matters and financial 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:39.360 stability for the future. So where I was actually working, 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:41.160 I really enjoy working there, but there was none of 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:45.880 those benefits for the people for the people where I worked. 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.360 So it was just through a casual conversation with my 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:51.000 father one day he said, what do you think about 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:53.400 join the cops. I've got a great set of vanuation. 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:54.559 Scheme's some good advice. 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.280 It was about the best advice I ever got from him. 0:08:57.640 --> 0:08:59.760 But yeah, so I looked at it and thought, well, 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:04.800 i'll have a crack. So well, you drove me down 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:07.040 to Sydney. I went in and the rest is history. 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:08.160 You took me a couple of cracks. 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:11.800 Yeah, you were telling me about that. Talk us through 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:16.040 that the first time. You didn't make it. Well, basically 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:17.839 visit late seventies. 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.240 It's just in about nineteen seventy seven, sony, And the 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:26.000 only entrance criteria then was to pass the spelling. Sorry, 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:29.160 in those days we still said height, chest measurement, but 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:32.080 that sort of thing. So I had those categories covered. 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:35.520 The spelling. I thought I was as good speller. However, 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:37.439 I went into this room when there was about eighty 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:41.640 prospective young people there, and I found the spelling to 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.520 be quite hard. Actually it was. I thought, jeez, I 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:47.040 didn't expect this sort of thing. But I only failed 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:49.000 by a couple of words. And out of that eighty 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:50.640 odd people are in their room that day, I think 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:52.720 only three or four past that went through. When I 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:54.920 was given the tap on the sholder and I said, listen, mate, 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:57.480 you weren't far away, but I just can't push it 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.600 through on the couple you got wrong. So just take 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:03.080 a bit of advice. Next time you see the advertisement 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:06.760 in the Daily Telegraph for wanting police recruits, come back down. 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:08.720 He said, I think you'll find the spelling a lot easier. 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:12.000 And was that just regulating because you had eighty people 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:13.680 there and then you're only going to take well. 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:15.400 I only just filled the class, I think, and they 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:16.280 didn't really want. 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:18.440 Recruits, but they had to just kept making the words harder. 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:19.800 Well, I think they had. I think they had a 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:22.400 program if they would have so many interesting exams every 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:25.280 week or fortnite, so the numbers that fronted up, they'll 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:27.800 probably wored it out until they wanted recruits by the 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:30.840 difficulty of the spelling. I met. That's that was my impression. 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:33.040 So I went back when I saw an advertisement a 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:35.520 few months later, plus I brushed up a little bit 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.960 on spelling, and look, I went back in the next 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.240 time and there was sixty people in the room, and 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:44.040 everybody passed with flying colors because basically most of the 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:49.360 words the next ting beyond six letters cats. Yes, pretty much. 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.320 I forgot about the spelling tests, and I remember standing 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:56.520 there practicing words like catch ce at c H catch 0:10:57.160 --> 0:10:58.840 harder words than that. But you had a list of 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:01.280 words and you had to remember them as best you. 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:03.480 Well, I think eventually and you learned. You knew why 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:07.160 it was because there was so much paperwork in the cops. 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:11.319 And you're typing skills. Okay, so you eventually learned how 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:13.800 the spell cat and Matt and Sat got through that. 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:16.040 You got through that, but then you had another hurdle 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:17.040 fil the blood. 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:21.679 Pressure young fit twenty one year old, high blood pressure. Anyway, 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:24.839 to cut the story a little bit shorter, I went 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:26.360 to see with GP about well I might have had 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:28.280 high blood pressure. He checked my blood pressure and it 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.400 was perfect. I think you're just suffering a little bit 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:33.439 of nerves and you get a little bit excited and 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.640 your blood pressure increases. He said, just try and relax 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:39.440 a little bit when you're go in and have one 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:41.360 of these tablets. If you want to behalf of this 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:43.840 tablet like calm you down. I think it was a 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.120 Sarah Pax, I think. Anyway, I had that half a 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:50.000 tablet and my parts were flying colors. Eventually, the blood 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:53.240 pressure test then went through the like test, which was 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:57.080 very very I think Old Dr Peterson was one of 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.000 the gmails on that one. So I got through that 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:05.920 and eventually waited and actually you had to nominate some 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:09.160 people and normally nominated the parents of good friends of 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.559 yours and I were interviewed, Yeah, the usual thing, and 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:15.320 then got to start. Got to start in nineteen seventy nine. 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:19.040 Okay, so some of the stations you worked at Eastwood, 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:20.720 Gosford started. 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:22.200 Off as one of the Gosford I think they used 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:24.080 to go on the Gosford tongue in those days, because 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:28.360 I think most people who lived in Gossip or the 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:33.720 Central Coast area were stationed it strategically at places like Hornsby, Chatswood, 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:38.920 Eastwood basically because of the distance to travel, and you 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:41.880 were cooled by the locals as the Gosford tongue in 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.719 those days. Anyway, I did part of my probation those 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.120 first six weeks with a buddy at Gosford, then got 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:50.720 speed back to Eastwood, where I worked for another twelve months. 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:53.800 A bit over before coming from the country, I grew 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:56.120 up in the coal fields area of the hunta valley 0:12:56.600 --> 0:13:00.360 in the little town called Western New Curry Curry. As 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:01.959 a country boy, I just wanted to get out of 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.160 the city. It wasn't It wasn't the game for me, 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.160 and also would in those days was a bit of 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.520 a It was fairly quite station, you know, so you 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:14.880 really wanted any probation because when I first started, you 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:16.240 didn't even want to have a day off. 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:19.120 Yeah, so you enjoyed it when when you got in 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:20.880 there there was a probation, very constable. 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.760 It was a complete I ap. The camaraderie in that 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:28.559 amongst the guys was unbelievable. But it was just that 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:34.440 the sheer experience of seeing things that most of the 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:36.840 public don't get to sea. It just popped up every day, 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:40.720 you know, day in day out, and there was always something. 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:42.960 Even for quiet a station, there was always something happening. 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.080 You know, it was a dust real accident and you 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.760 looked at things and thought, wow, you know, like this 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:50.160 is just yeah, I've never seen a dead body. Before 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.600 I joined the cops. I used to get to deadens 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:54.360 and that sort of thing, and I'll never forget the 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:56.960 first dead body ever saw, you know, it was just 0:13:56.960 --> 0:13:58.800 a guy went missing in one of the old home 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:01.200 it's just around the police and they said you're going 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:03.560 to climb that. You're the probation are you're going up 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:05.640 that ladder and you're going Because he had about five 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.079 double deadlocks on his door in the unit, had to 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:10.400 go through the window, and I could see this body 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:13.040 lying in a bed with a handkerchief over his face, 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:16.080 of all things. But you know, I'm balancing on the 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.280 windowsill trying to yell out to this guy. His name 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:22.800 was Zeril. Anyway, in the end, I just toppled over 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:26.040 and I've just crashed all of the Venetian blinds off 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:29.240 the window, landed on the floor upside down, fighting my 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:32.440 way out of the Venician blind Veoenician blinds, just to 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:34.360 have a look at and get to the light switch 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:36.520 to get it on. And he was just a ceasing bed. 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.520 So that's my experience of the first dead person I've 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:40.000 ever seen. 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:43.520 They're bizarre experiences and they're hard to prepare you for them, 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.240 aren't they You You're really You're going there with your 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:49.160 eyes open, and it's just okay, this is the world, 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:50.840 the world that a lot of people don't get to see. 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:52.880 Yeah, exactly, Well, a lot of reliefs. I get to 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:56.480 find the elderly relatives to cease those sorts of things, 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:58.680 but that's more personal for them. But this sort of 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:01.520 started the ball rolling where this became a you know, 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.080 it was just in the end, it was just there's 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.120 nothing to be worried about. There was nothing to be 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:10.240 nervous about. There's nothing to be shocked about. Yeah, throughout 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:10.600 the career. 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:14.200 And did you your personality type, did you feel like 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:16.600 the job fitted you? Like it it was something that 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:18.160 you were glad you discovered it. 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:21.200 I think so well. I think so, Yeah, because most 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:23.680 of the guys I worked was you know, ninety percent 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.200 of the guys I worked with were just fantastic people. 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:28.560 You've got to have a sense of humor. I thought 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:32.320 I thought I had that so and I think that's 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:34.200 part of you do briefing to have a sense of humor. 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.280 Some people who bottle things up from the word go, 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:40.080 we're going to struggle with this with that particular lifestyle. 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.800 Yeah, and that's a positive. Like police often get criticized 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:46.280 about the culture, and yeah, there was problems with the culture, 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:50.640 but there's also some positives about the culture. Yeah, the 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:53.360 black humor that we have, the way that you deal 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:57.160 with the tragedies that you confront each day in the cops. 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.680 And you only used that amongst your workmates. Yeah, and 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:04.920 it was. It is an exclusive club what everybody says. 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:06.920 I think it's probably like the military. It's probably like 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:10.480 the ambas and the fieries. They have that exclusivity about 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.000 the culture within their organization, and. 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.520 It's in the terminology like you join the police, you 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:20.880 join the army, you join the ambulance. You know o it. Yeah, 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:22.680 they ain't describe it that way. 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:25.200 One hundred percent. You do join it. And they put 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.360 a bit of discipline in my life early life, you know, 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.600 especially in your junior ranks, and sometimes that's a thing 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:34.720 a lot of people like because it lessens them on 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.600 making certain decisions. They just learn to follow and do 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.280 as they're told and do quite a good job. It's 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.040 when you move on to the supervisory roles that things 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:45.440 can be a little bit harder. 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:47.520 Yeah, well you did you have a good role model 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:49.600 people that you identified and thought, that's the type of 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:50.640 cop I want to want to be. 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:52.520 I did when I went to Gold And actually they 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:54.480 had a mentor that I worked a lot with was 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:57.040 a sergeant by the name of Pat Carle who ended 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.320 up at the academy where he deserved to be because 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:00.600 he was just that sort of guy who can get 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:02.680 across the poop. But I really worked a lot in 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:07.080 uniform with Pat, and hence he was my man station 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:09.679 from down to Southern Highlands before he got a sergeant 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.600 job at Goldban and how I really looked up to 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:16.520 Pat Cole and his style of policing and just a 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.000 person he was also and that sort of bumped me 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:21.119 along too, wanting that one man station and working. 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:23.679 Yeah, you said that before we started the podcast, that 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:26.560 you wanted the one man station. I can understand the attraction. 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.320 There's something about it, but it's also a little bit 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:32.359 daunting them very lanely with the responsibility that comes with 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:33.320 a one man's station. 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:37.560 I think the Southern Highlands is not a busy place, 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:38.159 whether you. 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:41.520 Okay Southern Highlands for people that we're talking around the 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:42.479 Golbin exactly. 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:45.199 It's a terribly cold placing winner there's not a lot 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.000 of crime during There wasn't back in these days the 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.640 late seventies and early eighties. The Collector was a very 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:53.240 very quiet, little my man station. But I was also 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:55.320 lucky enough to be on one man station when you 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:59.240 didn't when you were at your station seven days a week, thround, 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:02.080 sixty five days ye, it was your station. You weren't 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:04.879 called in to fill holes in the roster at Gulbin, 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:07.800 you weren't. You weren't simp to any other stations to 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.399 fill in a gap just because of staffing issues. That 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:12.399 was your station and that's where you worked. 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:14.199 How long had you been in the cops before you 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:15.560 took on a one man station. 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.400 I was just under four years. 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.240 Okay, Well, the four years you get trained in the 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.480 deep end, you start the nay, you trade after four years. 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:26.240 Well, I got my first hook when I was at 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:27.879 when I was at Collector. 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:31.840 So because I haven't spoken to someone running it like 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:35.480 a one man station. So Collector described the town. 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:43.439 Very, very small town, mainly farmers, farming families. There was 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:47.439 a couple of garages in town. The old Federal Highway 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:51.640 ran right through the middle of town. Summer was generally 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:54.800 extremely quiet. Winter it hotted up a little bit because 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:58.439 of the sheer volume of traffic that flows through that town, 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:02.359 especially around around that first week in June, the avenue 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.679 of the school season. It was just headlights from as 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:06.520 far as you could see from Collector Hideny woos Queen 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.960 Bean along Lake George, and that was the busy time. 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.680 That was the times when people were impatient, they overtook 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.199