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Speaker 1: I get a team, so you project it's Tiffany and Cook,

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Speaker 1: It's Kate, Mary, Veronica Loois Save. It's the project that's you.

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Speaker 1: Will start with the pugilist, the box of the thug,

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Speaker 1: the woman about town, Tiffany and Cook, the consumer of cookies,

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Speaker 1: Kate Save, the dietitian and excise physiologist. I think also

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Speaker 1: I might have something to say about that. Tiff Tell

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Speaker 1: Kate about the cookies that you are not only addicted to,

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Speaker 1: but try to get everyone else addicted to.

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Speaker 2: Incidentally, I just took someone to the cookie shop today,

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Speaker 2: so I can still taste the cookie that Kate. They

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Speaker 2: may not be nutritionally sound, but they are so nutritious

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Speaker 2: for my soul. They are life changing cookies.

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Speaker 3: I'm wondering the other box, the other bucket. You know

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Speaker 3: what is that? The fulfilling heart buckets?

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, the important one.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if the joy and dough for me, and

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Speaker 1: the euphoria that comes with those cookies offsets the calories

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Speaker 1: and the sugar and the cellular damage. I wonder if

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Speaker 1: it's in its own way despite being unhealthy. Maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: it kind of comes out like equal.

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Speaker 2: Because cortisol is not healthy and I feel that just

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Speaker 2: drop when I get one of those bad boys in

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Speaker 2: my hand.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's pretty much the antidote to everything. Look at

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Speaker 1: us trying to make science up as we go. That's

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Speaker 1: that's how science works. Fingering her finger.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's so great. I think there's something in that.

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Speaker 3: Do either of you wear an or a ring?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 3: But I wear a garment, okay.

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Speaker 4: And so it looks at your different states, and it

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Speaker 4: looks at your stress and your restorative time. Yesterday I

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Speaker 4: eat said, oh, you've had more restorative time than usual.

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Speaker 3: I never watch TV.

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Speaker 4: And I sat down with my daughter and husband in

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Speaker 4: bed and we watched All A Time to Kill and

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Speaker 4: I just felt so lucky at the end that you know,

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Speaker 4: it's a beautiful movie, it's a horrible movie, all those things.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, so my restorative time went through the roof.

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Speaker 4: So I think you're onto something, Greg. I feel like

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Speaker 4: it could be maybe slightly offset if it can put

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Speaker 4: you into that restorative phase, because that's healing for your body.

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Speaker 4: So you'll have to check your checking amen.

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Speaker 1: Before Tiff jumps in, she's going to I think it's

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Speaker 1: dose dependent, your honor, I think it. I think it

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Speaker 1: depends on how many cookies gone Tiff.

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Speaker 2: Well on that. People used to say to me that

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Speaker 2: my motto was if a little bit's good, a lot

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Speaker 2: must be better, because anything I liked, I would have

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Speaker 2: tenfold of it.

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Speaker 4: Well, this has not started on the nutritious thoughts, has it?

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Speaker 1: It has? Do you know what this has started on?

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Speaker 4: That?

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Speaker 1: This has started on the real world foot because this

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Speaker 1: is normal humans deal with how much shit can I eat?

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Speaker 1: Or how much how many cordatas can I have? Or

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Speaker 1: how often can I have one of those cookies? Or

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Speaker 1: I mean, to me, this is actually a good conversation because,

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Speaker 1: like I say to people all the time, don't do

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Speaker 1: what I do because I'm compared to the average, I'm extreme.

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Speaker 1: Like for me, I'm not extreme. For me, I'm totally normal.

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Speaker 1: But don't use me as a barometer because I'm a

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Speaker 1: fucking weirdo. So if you have a pizza a week,

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Speaker 1: or three beers a week, or a wine every night,

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Speaker 1: or a cookie once or twice a week that Tiff

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Speaker 1: uses and recommends, or you know, or you have bee

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Speaker 1: fit foods every second day not every day, or whatever

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Speaker 1: it is, Like, I think it's trying to find something

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Speaker 1: that works, not only physiologically and nutritionally, but also emotionally,

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Speaker 1: psychologically and sociologically, because once it or not, food is

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Speaker 1: way more more than just food, Like especially in Australia,

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Speaker 1: it's way more than and you know, we can all

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Speaker 1: go well, if I put you on it And I

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Speaker 1: used to say this to people, if I put you

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Speaker 1: on an island and I only fed you this and that,

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Speaker 1: and that's true, their body would change a certain way

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Speaker 1: if they only had access to certain food. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess it's always a bit of a trade off Kpe.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, And at the end of the day, if you

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Speaker 4: feel miserable, that's not good for your health. If you

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Speaker 4: feel in a stress state, that's not good for your health.

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Speaker 4: So there's got to be some sort of balance there.

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Speaker 4: But on the flip side of that, you've got to

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Speaker 4: be conscious of your eating and you need to compensate

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Speaker 4: unless you want to change. So if you don't compensate,

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Speaker 4: it doesn't evaporate. And I think you're both the most

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Speaker 4: consistent people that I know with your training and whatever

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Speaker 4: you do is consistent, not just your training but your podcast.

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Speaker 4: Everything you do is consistent. And if people are consistently healthy,

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Speaker 4: then whenever they have the other stuff, they compensate for it.

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Speaker 3: It's fine.

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Speaker 4: But if you don't compensate and you're not consistent the

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Speaker 4: rest of the time, then you're in a world of trouble.

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Speaker 1: Hmmm. I think that's I think for the average person,

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out what that balance is a really

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Speaker 1: good question to ask and a really good kind of

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Speaker 1: a little bit of you know, and equals one self

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Speaker 1: research to go, oh, how do I Like I've told

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Speaker 1: I've said this before, but like for about ten years

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Speaker 1: maybe more, I would not have a fucking if somebody

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Speaker 1: said I'll give you a hundred bucks to eat this

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Speaker 1: crumb of cake, I would say no, right, I was

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Speaker 1: just and it wasn't about the crumb of cake. It

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Speaker 1: was about my mind and my emotions and my reactions

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Speaker 1: and my responses. Just like you would not say to

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Speaker 1: an addict, just have a tiny bit of coke, or now,

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Speaker 1: do you know what I mean, just have a tiny

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Speaker 1: bit of coke, you know, or an alcoholic, look, just

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Speaker 1: have a core of a glass of beer. Like, no

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Speaker 1: one would do that. But and like here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: If people who don't have food issues hear this, they'd go, well,

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Speaker 1: you're just a fucking idiot. You got no self control.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, that's spoken by a person who doesn't

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Speaker 1: have food issues. Like for me, food was as close

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Speaker 1: to being a drug addiction as I would ever have,

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Speaker 1: because I would eat food I didn't need. I would

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Speaker 1: do things that I knew were self destructive. This is

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Speaker 1: the same as addiction. I would lie about my eating,

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Speaker 1: I would eat in secret. I would tell people to

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Speaker 1: do things that I wasn't doing. I didn't follow my

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Speaker 1: own advice. I wasted my own knowledge. I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: just all the behaviors of an addict, you know. But

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Speaker 1: and you've got to get to the point where you go, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm a bit full of shit. And so I think

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Speaker 1: that you know, people trying to understand what is an

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Speaker 1: operating system. I mean, obviously purely from a nutritional and

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Speaker 1: a scientific point of view, then let's just look at

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Speaker 1: micros and macros and energy and quality of food. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but then beyond that, also you know what's going to

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Speaker 1: work for you just practically moving forward, so you can

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Speaker 1: be pretty lean, pretty healthy, pretty operational. And also you

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Speaker 1: can have a bit of this and a bit of that,

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Speaker 1: but not forty times a.

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Speaker 4: Week, absolutely, and I think it's only when people get

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Speaker 4: the scared or something. You know, they've got a goal

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Speaker 4: and they decide they want to change, and they realize

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Speaker 4: that change is so much harder than they ever imagined.

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Speaker 4: I got invited to a dinner party the other night,

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Speaker 4: but I was warned it was only two people and

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Speaker 4: they wanted to speak to me about pre diabetes and

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Speaker 4: talking about going on weight loss medications. I was like, oh,

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Speaker 4: here we go. So a couple of hours later we

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Speaker 4: had a really insightful conversation, and needless to say, I'm

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Speaker 4: not pro medication.

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Speaker 3: Over lifestyle because at the end of the day, if

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Speaker 3: you are going to take any of those weight.

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Speaker 4: Loss drugs, the first thing you do before you start

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Speaker 4: your script is strength training three times a week, have small,

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Speaker 4: high protein, nutrie dense meals, and make sure that you're

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Speaker 4: well nourished.

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Speaker 3: Then go on the drug. And what they.

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Speaker 4: Said to me is, well, if I was doing that, well,

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Speaker 4: why would I need the drug. I'm like, well, good question,

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Speaker 4: But can't I just go on a little bit? Well, actually,

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Speaker 4: you never ever go off it. Do you ever go

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Speaker 4: off your cholesterol, your high blood pressure medications, those sorts

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Speaker 4: of things. No, And it's the same thing with a

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Speaker 4: weight loss drug. People think that they can have a

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Speaker 4: small dose, get the weight off, and then the weight

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Speaker 4: will stay off, And that's not the way they work.

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Speaker 4: You are meant to be on them for life forever.

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Speaker 4: So once you start them, you must also keep up

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Speaker 4: your strength training three times a week and your perfect

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Speaker 4: eating three times a day, because if you don't do

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Speaker 4: perfect eating, you can only afford to eat a very

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Speaker 4: small amount of food because you'll feel sick all the time,

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Speaker 4: you'll have very small appetite, and you'll still have the

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Speaker 4: same protein and nutrient requirements, you just won't want all

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Speaker 4: the other stuff. So if you're not prepared to do

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Speaker 4: that for the rest of your life, don't start.

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Speaker 1: Wowser. Well, I mean see, and I guess playing Devil's advocate,

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Speaker 1: I'm with you. By the way, I'm not a fan

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Speaker 1: at all. And by the way, everyone, this is not

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Speaker 1: medical recommendations or prescriptions by Kate Orchip.

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Speaker 4: I have no issues with people taking it, but that's

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Speaker 4: the script that goes with the script.

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Speaker 3: That's the truth.

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Speaker 1: That's the deal. Yeah, I'm just like and I get it.

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Speaker 1: I get it that it's helped some people, and I

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Speaker 1: understand and I think that's legit. But also you know

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Speaker 1: that I can't remember the numbers, but I know that

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Speaker 1: there's definitely quite a significant percentage of the weight losses

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Speaker 1: muscle like. Nobody needs to lose muscle like nobody. There's

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Speaker 1: no benefit for anybody lose unless you're a bodybuilder who's

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Speaker 1: one hundred and forty kilos and you just want to

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Speaker 1: get smaller. But you know, losing muscle mass is losing strength,

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Speaker 1: is losing function, and if you're losing muscle mass, you're

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Speaker 1: probably losing bone density. You know, there's a whole bunch

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Speaker 1: of stuff that that potentially is going to happen. And

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Speaker 1: when we look at, you know, weight loss as a

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Speaker 1: stand alone, maybe maybe, But then if you look at

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Speaker 1: some of the all the other stuff, the side effects,

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Speaker 1: some of the physiological consequences perhaps over time of being

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Speaker 1: dependent on a drug. And while I know we probably

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Speaker 1: have a lot of lesseners who use it, and so

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Speaker 1: I'm not trying to throw any shade, but I also think,

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Speaker 1: you know, me, as the like the student of human behavior,

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Speaker 1: I just think, Okay, so now I the only way

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Speaker 1: that I can stay in the shape that I want

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Speaker 1: is I've got to take this drug now forever. When

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Speaker 1: you think, well, what does it do? It literally makes

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Speaker 1: me eat less food. Well that's what that's what other

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Speaker 1: people do, but without the drug. It's like, that's how

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Speaker 1: I went from being a fat kid to a fit kid.

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Speaker 1: Is I have my food essentially and increase my energy expenditure.

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Speaker 1: And I lost thirty kilos and there was no ozenpic

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Speaker 1: or no woogarbi or whatever it is. And you know

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Speaker 1: it's like and it's not, Oh, therefore everybody should do

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Speaker 1: what I did. But yeah, I just I don't know

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Speaker 1: that mentally and emotionally it's a great thing either.

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Speaker 3: Can I answer this?

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Speaker 4: So at this dinner party conversation, I said, well, how

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Speaker 4: much waste do you want to lose? And there's a

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Speaker 4: beautiful friends of mine, so I know they don't mind

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Speaker 4: me talking about this, and one of them wanted to

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Speaker 4: lose fifteen kilos and I said, okay, well how much

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Speaker 4: way to be lost? So far on the journey because

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Speaker 4: they've changed all their habits, they've already lost five kilos

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Speaker 4: And I said, following kilos is a lot to lose,

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Speaker 4: and she said to me, or it doesn't, you know,

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Speaker 4: it doesn't feel like a lot.

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Speaker 3: I've got a lot more to go, And.

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Speaker 4: I said, that is the equivalent of walking seventy thousand kilometers.

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Speaker 4: Now I'm not very good at geography, but that sounds

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Speaker 4: like walking around Australia to me. If it's about two.

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Speaker 3: Thousand kilometers from here to Queensland, would that be right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, like that too.

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Speaker 4: It wouldn't be to walk around Australia. That would be

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Speaker 4: That's a long way.

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Speaker 3: Isn't it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know about I don't know about that. Seventy

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Speaker 1: thousand kilometers.

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Speaker 4: Well, so you burn fifty calories per kilometer. Each kilo

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Speaker 4: is seven thousand calories seventy.

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Speaker 1: Seven Oh no, yeah, right right, So a pound of

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Speaker 1: fat is me do this? So akilo is seventy seven hundred.

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Speaker 1: A kilo is seventy seven hundred calories.

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Speaker 3: Yep, seventy seven hundred.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The problem with this maths is I know where

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Speaker 1: you're going though. It's is that we burn different amount

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Speaker 1: of calories per unit of time, per distance. There's just

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Speaker 1: a lot of like me and TIF doing the same

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Speaker 1: thing won't burn the same calories because I'm twenty kilos heavier.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 4: So at the end of the day, anyway, losing weight

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Speaker 4: is much much harder than people understand. But the thing is,

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Speaker 4: if you lose a lot of weight, you do change

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Speaker 4: your metabolic rate. So if you were eating eighteen hundred

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Speaker 4: calories or two thousand calories before, let's say you go

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Speaker 4: on this drug for five years and you drop your

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Speaker 4: twenty kilos. When you are twenty kilos less, your food

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Speaker 4: requirement is significantly less, your metabolic grate is significantly less.

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Speaker 4: So are you prepared if you do or you don't

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Speaker 4: come off the drug. And most people hope to come

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Speaker 4: off the drug to have twenty five percent less food

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Speaker 4: for the rest of your life, knowing that if you

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Speaker 4: just eat good what you are eating now, you need

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Speaker 4: to have good, but twenty five percent less less than

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Speaker 4: that if you lose that much weight.

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Speaker 3: And that was a real shock because when you think

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Speaker 3: you've got to your.

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Speaker 4: Limit of how good you can be and then you're

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Speaker 4: told you need twenty five percent less than that because

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Speaker 4: as your weight comes down, your metabolick great comes down.

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Speaker 3: With that, you need a lot less food.

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Speaker 4: And is that the lifestyle you want to live for

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Speaker 4: the rest of your life, or is this number of

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Speaker 4: weight that you want to lose just a number.

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Speaker 3: Is this just a fictional thing?

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Speaker 4: Are you actually going to be happy not eating much

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Speaker 4: at all and being really careful all the time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Look, it's complicated because also, you know, you get

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Speaker 1: a sixty kilo lady who's got very little muscle versus

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Speaker 1: Tiff who's sixty kilos with a lot of muscle on

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Speaker 1: same height, same weight. You know, female female got to eat,

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Speaker 1: gotta eat, got to move, got to sleep, got to

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Speaker 1: be a human, so Tiff might And even if they

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Speaker 1: had the same genetics, right, which ain't going to happen,

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Speaker 1: But and if they had the same genetics, but let's

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Speaker 1: say Tiff had exponentially more muscle, well her BMR, I

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Speaker 1: mean her just getting through the day with her normal activity,

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Speaker 1: and you know BMR could be three thousand calories versus

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Speaker 1: the other lady could be seventeen hundred, you know. And

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Speaker 1: so yeah, that's the other thing is you want to

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Speaker 1: keep you want to keep or build muscle as you

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Speaker 1: get older. And I know we're taking a left turn,

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Speaker 1: will come straight back, but you're listening to this and

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Speaker 1: you're forty or older and you are not lifting weights

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Speaker 1: or doing some strength training, then you are aging and

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Speaker 1: deteriorating at a rate that you don't need to. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not being melodramatic, but if you're not doing something

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Speaker 1: to hold onto your muscle or grow muscle and improve

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Speaker 1: bone density and function and mobility and all of these things,

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Speaker 1: there's an absolute inevitability of decline at a certain ish rate.

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Speaker 1: But what we know is when you know, like I

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Speaker 1: don't know, like Kate, you're very fit and strong, TIFFs

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Speaker 1: biological age in terms of strength would have to be

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Speaker 1: like a twenty two year older lead athlete. Yeah, she's

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Speaker 1: forty two, and that's not and I don't even I mean,

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Speaker 1: you do have pretty good genetics, but but you train

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Speaker 1: like a motherfucker. So that's it. And apart from you know,

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Speaker 1: your cookie fetish, which we're putting you in therapy for.

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Speaker 4: But you know, would you take your calmps from your

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Speaker 4: cookie over your spaghetti bolonnais. I'd rather have the bowl

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Speaker 4: of bolinn Ai sauce and then have the cookie later.

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Speaker 1: She'd have both. That's the dumbest question.

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Speaker 3: I don't know the amount.

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Speaker 2: The thing is and I had to spend time realizing

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Speaker 2: this myself. Is the changes I made gradually over the

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Speaker 2: years towards a really great staple diet so that I

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Speaker 2: could have cookies like that and just knock myself out.

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Speaker 2: It's like I didn't acknowledge that along the way until

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Speaker 2: I kind of looked at what other people ate all

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Speaker 2: the time. I was like, oh, I'd never eat that.

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Speaker 2: If I'm gonna eat that, I'm gonna have seven cookies.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yes, yes, yeah, I hear you. Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: do think like that.

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Speaker 4: I like Vanilla s license, but I wouldn't sit down

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Speaker 4: to like if I had Chinese, I wouldn't eat the

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Speaker 4: whole bowl of rice as well as the I don't know,

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Speaker 4: sizzling beef or whatever else, because if I wanted something Carby,

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Speaker 4: I'd take it as my treat, not as my Yeah, anyway, what.

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Speaker 1: About you the other Well, here's the other thing, right,

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Speaker 1: None of us three are representative of the average punter,

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Speaker 1: do you know what I mean. I'm not saying better

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Speaker 1: or worse. I'm just saying, you know, we all work

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Speaker 1: in the health at fitness Space, we're all professionals. We're

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Speaker 1: all a little bit mental and obsessed. Us three da

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Speaker 1: Let's be honest, you know, So the average person ain't

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Speaker 1: no Kate sab or Tip or fatty Harps. Right, that's

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Speaker 1: that's not the average person. So you've kind of got

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Speaker 1: to look through the lens of somebody who doesn't think

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Speaker 1: like you, or live like you, or to be able

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Speaker 1: to understand a version of their reality. It's like, I'm

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Speaker 1: fully aware when I talk about this to people that

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Speaker 1: I need to try to understand what is an effort

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Speaker 1: for them versus me, you know, because if I set

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Speaker 1: my mind something, that's it. It's like I can literally

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Speaker 1: change the fucking direction of my life in twenty four hours.

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Speaker 1: That's just how my brain works. You know. I can

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Speaker 1: have a realization and go, oh, I'm not doing that anymore,

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Speaker 1: and then I don't do it anymore, like from that day.

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Speaker 1: But most people, and that's not because I'm bloody specially

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Speaker 1: or anything. That's just how my brain works. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: you sent me a message today, oh.

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Speaker 4: About the muscle though, you were saying, there's one important point.

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Speaker 4: They say your volume of muscle in your body is

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Speaker 4: directly related to your brain size. So if you are

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Speaker 4: losing muscle unintentionally because you're going through rapid weight loss

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Speaker 4: without a high protein diet and weight training a minimum

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Speaker 4: of three times a week, you will be depleting your

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Speaker 4: brain volume, not just your body. So damage is irrepairable

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Speaker 4: if you don't do it well, and some people do

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Speaker 4: do it well, but if you're going to put in

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Speaker 4: that effort, you know, it's consistency and it's every day, and.

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Speaker 1: People don't yet, You're absolutely correct. People don't realize even

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Speaker 1: that lifting weights apart from the obvious, you know, bone

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Speaker 1: density and strength and muscle and body composition. Also muscles

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Speaker 1: metabolically active and so you know the same massive muscle

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Speaker 1: versus fat muscle needs more calories so you can stay

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Speaker 1: leaner with more muscle, which is a bonus. But also

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Speaker 1: it's actually lifting weights in proves cognitive function, mood, dopamine production,

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah. Like I yeah, I feel better every

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Speaker 1: time I lift weights, and not just from the satisfaction

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Speaker 1: that I did a thing, but literally my brain chemistry

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Speaker 1: is different and I actually feel happier.

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Speaker 4: There is actually a genetic predisposition as to whether you

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Speaker 4: should weight train or more endurance, and I'm someone who

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Speaker 4: gets more pleasure out of weight training according to this

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Speaker 4: genetic traits.

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Speaker 3: I've done the big comprehensive one.

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Speaker 4: I love running, and I thought I was the euphoric runner,

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Speaker 4: and that's where I got my dopemine. But genetically it's

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Speaker 4: actually from weight training, which is interesting.

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Speaker 3: So I like great weight training, but I didn't.

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Speaker 4: Realize it's another way of that high that dopamine hit.

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Speaker 1: You should have a look at some stage, Tiffany and

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Speaker 1: Cook will tell you. So there's an organization called pH

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Speaker 1: three sixty is that what they're called?

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Speaker 4: I know?

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Speaker 1: And doctor Cam McDonald from Queensland. You know him, doctor

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Speaker 1: cam exos physiologists man about town. You'd like him, you too,

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Speaker 1: should have a chat, you'd connect. But he developed this

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Speaker 1: whole model him and a team of which tiff is

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Speaker 1: a coach and more knowledgeable and qualified in this space.

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Speaker 1: But basically where they look at how you should eat

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Speaker 1: and train and kind of training and training times and

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Speaker 1: types of food and the things that are going to

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Speaker 1: relax you or not relax you, all based on is

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Speaker 1: it five different smarter.

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Speaker 2: Types, six health types and then within that a whole

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Speaker 2: subset of different very amazing. Yeah, it's incredible.

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Speaker 1: Can you just say the six health types.

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Speaker 2: So there's an activator that's myself testosterone driven. There's activator

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Speaker 2: guardian crusader, censor diplomat and connector.

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Speaker 3: And what am I I feel like?

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Speaker 1: Am I a hybrid?

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Speaker 2: I feel yeah, I feel like you'd be like a

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Speaker 2: guardian or a connector?

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Speaker 3: Right, what does that mean? So it's a little bit,

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Speaker 3: you know what it's like.

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Speaker 2: It's it's it's like the what do they call those

403
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Speaker 2: Miles Briggs tests or the oh yes, like a personality profile,

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Speaker 2: but that also takes into account your biology and your

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Speaker 2: physiology and it and a lot of it is based

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Speaker 2: on the hormones that were predominant when you were an embryo,

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Speaker 2: So how you developed, So what is your body built

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Speaker 2: for so sort of exercise sprint training or strength training

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Speaker 2: or endurance, which also then dictates obviously your personality traits.

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Speaker 1: It's actually really interesting anyway. But so you sent me

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Speaker 1: a message an email and said something like which was

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Speaker 1: hilarious because you've never sent me any message like this,

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Speaker 1: and I just kind of bring it up. I can't

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Speaker 1: it's a bit boring on the show, but it said

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Speaker 1: something like, Hi, Craig, I'm angry, and I'm like, oh fuck,

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Speaker 1: what have I done? I know I make a lot

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Speaker 1: of people that I'm like, well, god read on, Craig.

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Speaker 1: But fortunately you weren't angry at me. Tell our listeners

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Speaker 1: about the paper that you sent me and wherever you

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Speaker 1: want to go, the research that's been done and what

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Speaker 1: it tells us.

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Speaker 4: So most people would know or you have spoken to

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Speaker 4: I believe on your show.

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Speaker 3: Professor Felice Jacko, who published The.

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Speaker 4: Smiles Trials, So she's the point oh one most cited

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Speaker 4: professor in the world. So her study for anyone who

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Speaker 4: doesn't know what the Smiles trial is, looked at whether

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Speaker 4: you do counseling or you change the diet for people

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Speaker 4: with major depression anxiety. And in the counseling arm they

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Speaker 4: got six or seven percent remission from major depression anxiety.

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Speaker 4: But the people that changed their diet went onto a

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Speaker 4: Mediterranean diet, got thirty two percent remission from major depression anxiety.

433
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 4: She published that in twenty seventeen. I met her in

434
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 4: twenty and nineteen.

435
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 1: And too quick. So what you're saying is people with

436
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 1: anxiety and depression, let's just slow it down. So ones

437
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 1: that had fucking hell once, I'm like, you're like a

438
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: robot bro. So the ones that had just therapy, yes,

439
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: it was six or seven percent remission. So in other words,

440
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,120
Speaker 1: it kind of resolved itself. All was fixed or was.

441
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 3: Seven percent of people yet resolved their.

442
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 4: Major depression anxiety and it counts one yea.

443
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 3: It was the placebo.

444
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 4: It was talking to someone and option two was going

445
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 4: on a Mediterranean style diet and the thirty two percent

446
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,199
Speaker 4: of people that were of the people that went on that,

447
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 4: it's thirty two percent of them got remission or put

448
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 4: their major depression anxiety on hold.

449
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 3: I guess is the best way to say that's bloody amazing.

450
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: Well, you think about versus thirty two, that's four and

451
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: a half times four and a half times. Wow. If

452
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 1: that was a drug, that would be very, very popular. Okay,

453
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 1: so we got it right now? Yes, not for so far,

454
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 1: Speedy Gonzales, yep. Okay.

455
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 4: So then in twenty nineteen I met with Professor Felice

456
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 4: Jakat and I talked about an idea of comparing whole

457
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 4: foods as a meal replacement versus supplements as a meal replacement.

458
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 3: And the reason I was interested.

459
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 4: In this at the time I was working with a

460
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 4: bariometric surgeon and the global standard around the world, not

461
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 4: just in Australia, is to go on a meal replacement

462
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 4: prior to weight loss surgery. Those meal replacements were one

463
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 4: hundred percent a supplement based, so they were ready a

464
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 4: chocolate shake or a chocolate bar, So they were completely synthetic, crude.

465
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, with vitamins and minerals.

466
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 4: Now, that has been the gold standard for decades, decades

467
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 4: and decades. There's lots of science on that, and I thought, well,

468
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 4: why can't people do the same thing in the same

469
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 4: macro nutrient.

470
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 3: Profile but with whole food.

471
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 4: And I wasn't very well supported with this idea because

472
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 4: it hadn't been done before and there was no science,

473
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 4: so it seemed dangerous.

474
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 3: And I'm like, how can eating real food be.

475
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 4: More dangerous than taking a man made product with a

476
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 4: label on it that tells us this is what's in it.

477
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 4: And it really got me thinking, just because we put

478
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 4: it in a packet and we told someone what the

479
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 4: macros were, does that mean that's something someone should be eating?

480
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 4: You know that set that we made it, We put

481
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 4: a sticker on it, you should eat it?

482
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 3: Well should I?

483
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 4: Well?

484
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 1: Who knows?

485
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 3: Actually?

486
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 4: So we made this whole food version of this, and

487
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 4: needless to say, it took six years. So in October

488
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 4: twenty first, twenty twenty five, I see on Professor Police

489
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 4: Jacker's social media that this study has been published.

490
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 3: So what they found was there.

491
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 4: Was two groups of people and they were randomized to

492
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 4: either going on the supplement diet or the whole food

493
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 4: vled very low energy diet. So at eight to nine

494
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 4: hundred calorie diet, these diets were matched for calories, they

495
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 4: were matched for carbs, proteins, fats.

496
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 3: Micros, macros, they were completely matched.

497
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 4: Over the three weeks, both groups of people lost the

498
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 4: same amount of weight, which is not overly surprising because

499
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 4: if you think of calories and macros, that should make sense.

500
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 4: But what was really surprising was the group that lost

501
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 4: the weight on food versus supplements retained more lean body mass,

502
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 4: so their gluteal muscle was maintained, whereas the gluteal or

503
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 4: the butt muscle was lost on the people who took

504
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 4: the supplement instead of the meal diet.

505
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 3: The second thing was gut microbiome diversity.

506
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 4: So there was a huge increase in diversity in the

507
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 4: people that went on the food and there was actually

508
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 4: a decrease. It was called a non significant decrease because

509
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 4: it didn't.

510
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,719
Speaker 3: Meet the zero zero point five P factor.

511
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 4: What is that you do, but it was a decline

512
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 4: in gut microbiome diversity as opposed to an increase, and

513
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 4: there was actually species forty five beneficial species found in

514
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 4: the people that increased or they did the food instead

515
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 4: of the supplement, and those bacteria have been linked to

516
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 4: things like reducing inflammation, improving cholesterol profile, which is then

517
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 4: linked to a reduced risk of cardiovascular disease as well,

518
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 4: amongst lots of other things. Now, the third finding, so

519
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 4: the first one's muscle mass, second one's gut microbiome. The

520
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 4: third one is leptin stability. So leptin is our hunger hormone.

521
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 4: It's secreted by fat cells, and it's supposed to tell

522
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 4: us that we're full if we have lots of fat

523
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 4: cells on board. What typically was thought to happen when

524
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 4: people went on a rapid weight loss diet, their leptin

525
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 4: would become unstable, meaning their appetite would go through the roofs.

526
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 4: So once they stopped the diet, they would have this

527
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 4: huge appetite and then they'd eat more food, gain the weight,

528
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 4: and maybe be bigger than where they started. So on

529
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 4: the supplement group, they found the leptin became really unstable,

530
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 4: which would lead to perhaps people then gorging after the

531
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 4: diet and regaining the weight that they'd lost over this period.

532
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 3: So the average weight.

533
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 4: Loss was between I think let's call it five five kilos.

534
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 4: It was somewhere between four kilos and six and a

535
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 4: half kilos. But the people that did it with food

536
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 4: actually had stable liptin levels, so their appetite was controlled

537
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 4: after the weight loss.

538
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that doesn't surprise me at all. And the

539
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: fact that the fact that people are using a meal replacement,

540
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: which is a synthetically produced you know, wad of powder

541
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: in a can or a box or a you know,

542
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: a thing that looks like a chocolate bar, and then

543
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: and then suggesting that your idea of well, let's have

544
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: whatever calories are in that can or that bar. Let's

545
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: just do a whole food so we've got similar micros

546
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: and macros or identical micros and macros, same amount of energy,

547
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: but instead of a powder or a bar that got

548
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: produced in a fucking factory, let's have like shit that's

549
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: like action made, that's actually had a life, and let's

550
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: you know, if that's whatever, if that's an animal or

551
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,479
Speaker 1: plant product. But the fact that they said that seems

552
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: dangerous I'm like, what, how is that dangerous?

553
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 4: So this is not the professors who did the study

554
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 4: thinking it's dangerous. This is the medical community. And now

555
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 4: I understand how science works a little bit more, because

556
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 4: if there is no science to support your idea, you

557
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 4: can't do it.

558
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 3: Now.

559
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 4: Science costs a lot of money, takes many, many years

560
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 4: to do, and who is going to fund whole foods

561
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 4: when it's pretty hard to make a lot of money

562
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 4: out of bloody kiwifruits and carrots. Someone's got to grow them,

563
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 4: and you know it's never going to get cheap. There

564
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 4: is no way to just pump them out.

565
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 3: Of a factory.

566
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 4: Whereas a synthetic food you get scale, you get volume,

567
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 4: you get machines, you get ai robots. You don't need humans,

568
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 4: you don't even need food in it. You can make

569
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 4: it up. You can do chemical copies of these things.

570
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 4: So the science wasn't there. And the surprising thing is

571
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 4: this was the world's first study comparing a whole food,

572
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 4: very low calorie diet to a supplement based very low

573
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 4: calorie diet. Even though all of the science supports very

574
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 4: low calorie diets done with supplements, nobody had studied the

575
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 4: other side of it, so I.

576
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 3: Just thought it was crazy.

577
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 4: So then when they've gone to get it published, it's

578
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 4: taken a couple of years, and I don't know if

579
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 4: that's normal, but to.

580
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 3: Me, I was like, wouldn't a journal jump on this?

581
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 4: And eventually it has been has been published in sal

582
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 4: Medical Journal, which is an incredible journal.

583
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 3: Made by the people that make the Lancet.

584
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 4: The best journals in the world. But it took a

585
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 4: long long time to get published. And when I've approached

586
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 4: different networks to speak about this study, I've been declined

587
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 4: being able to speak about it because the station are

588
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 4: sponsored by of course, of course, and so they won't

589
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 4: talk about it. It will affect their sponsorship contracts. Therefore,

590
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 4: humans and not allowed to know that if you eat

591
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 4: real food you will be more successful than supplements because

592
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 4: the supplement pays for the station.

593
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 3: So you cannot talk about that. This is science.

594
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 4: Done by a university, not we have not done the science.

595
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 4: It's not beefit food, it's not necessarily it's not you know,

596
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 4: it's no one.

597
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 3: No one owns this. The university and the staff own this.

598
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: That's an ongoing challenge. Kate is like, and there are

599
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: you know, there are many, many, many instances of this

600
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: where there would be some fucking amazing research. But if

601
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: the theory or the hypothesis proves to be true, then

602
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: that's going to cost someone a lot of money. And

603
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: as you know, to do the research, to run the research,

604
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: to do all the testing, to get ethical approval, all

605
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: of that takes money. And who's going to finance that? Yeah,

606
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: when you know some massive organization, profit driven organization, which

607
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: is how the world works. I'm not mad at profit everyone,

608
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 1: I'm not mad at commercialism. You know, we've got sponsors,

609
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: I get it. But yeah, this like ethical research ironically

610
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: versus you know, commercially interested research, commercially driven research. I

611
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: mean you think you harken back. In fact, I spoke

612
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 1: about this briefly today at my gig in the city.

613
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: I can't remember exactly who, but who the sponsors were,

614
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: but Ansel Keys when he did what was called the

615
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 1: twenty one country study or twenty eight country I forget,

616
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: and it ended up being where he eliminated the bulk

617
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 1: of the data that basically.

618
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,280
Speaker 3: Didn't support his hypothesis.

619
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: In bodies I proved that his theory was bullshit, and

620
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: then he kind of scraped some a couple of some

621
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 1: data together to try to like all of the stuff

622
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: that didn't support his hypothesis, which was most of it

623
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 1: he eliminated. So they just pretended that didn't happen. And

624
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: then they, because they were funded either by the wheat

625
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 1: wheat industry or sugar industry or maybe both, you know,

626
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: they came up with this whole low you know, low

627
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: fat eating equals low fat humans and whole theory. And

628
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: then we saw with that, which was all financially driven,

629
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 1: we saw an absolute correlation, if not causation between the

630
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: incidents of obesity. When the obesity started to climb and

631
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,760
Speaker 1: the low fat eating began was basically the same fucking day.

632
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: So and this is the thing, and this is why

633
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: I think, you know, and I feel a bit weird

634
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: saying this sometimes, but like I say to people, if

635
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: you want to listen to my research and my PhD

636
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: in my findings or you don't, I understand that. But

637
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 1: here's the thing, Like, there's no financial incentive for me.

638
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: I didn't care what the outcome was. I don't care.

639
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: I'm not financially incentivized to produce a specific result. I

640
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,439
Speaker 1: just wanted to see what the research would tell us, right,

641
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: But there is a lot of research done where that

642
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: university or that team, they are dependent on the financial

643
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: support of the people who are getting or who are

644
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: very interested in the outcome of the research.

645
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 3: Or they won't get out of funding, will they will?

646
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: And I mean, like people think that science is this

647
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 1: flawless fucking thing. And while the intentions, I think for

648
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: the most part are good, and I think most science

649
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: is somewhere in the ballpark of ethical, but you've got

650
00:36:55,160 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: to remember that all science is run by scientists. All

651
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: scientists are human. All universities that I know of are

652
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: profit driven. You know, they make money, They charge people

653
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: to be there. They've got enormous bills. I don't know

654
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: UNI's not for profit anyway, but you know, it's like

655
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: where money and profit is involved, it's very rare we're

656
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: going to get this kind of totally ethical objective, no

657
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: influence from any external kind of force research.

658
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 4: So there's one side of it why we might not

659
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 4: get the research. But let's say this research that you

660
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 4: dream of has been done, Nobody will bloody read it.

661
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 3: It's not the Herald Sun or the Age or the frickin'

662
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 3: you project podcast.

663
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 4: There is no journal that the average person subscribes to.

664
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 3: They can't even read it.

665
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 4: Like you said, the study was eight hundred pages long.

666
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 4: Sorry I couldn't read it before the podcast. Like people

667
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 4: aren't reading journals. If news reporters and people that are

668
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 4: in the media won't talk about it, what's the point

669
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 4: of doing the bloody study after all?

670
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 3: Because it's been buried.

671
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that is, I mean, yeah, so you're doing it.

672
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,439
Speaker 1: You're doing what you can. We're doing what we can.

673
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: But it's it's and that's probably not going to go

674
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 1: away anytime soon. And I think, you know, what people

675
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 1: get to you know, even like I think the University

676
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,800
Speaker 1: of South Australia at the end of twenty twenty three,

677
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 1: I think was did to study UNSA UNISA did a

678
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: study looking at the efficacy of exercise versus antidepressants for

679
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: people with depression. And of course I'm going to tell

680
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 1: you that, you know, the exercise outperformed the drugs by

681
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: a fucking outstanding a margin and percentage, and that got

682
00:38:55,480 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: about seven seconds of media coverage because it's an incredibly

683
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: profitable industry. And by the way, of course, I mean,

684
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: you know, go for a run or go lift weights

685
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: or versus take a pill. Well, I'll just take the pill.

686
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: It's not as good, but it's you know, and look,

687
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: and there's no judgment in that, I understand it. But

688
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: when you go, this thing that you can do is

689
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: better than any pill on the planet, any medication you

690
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: can take. There is nothing as good as this protocol.

691
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 1: It just happens to be called exercise.

692
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 4: Alongside with the diet, with the smiles trial. You put

693
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 4: the diet in the exercise together.

694
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, yep yep. And like you think about, like

695
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: what is a pill? It's something you're putting in your body.

696
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: What is And this is not an ad for Beefit

697
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,720
Speaker 1: Foods anyone. I don't. I'm not sponsored by Kate. And

698
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,839
Speaker 1: even when Kate sent me an email, shit, I don't

699
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: even care if we don't talk about our company. But

700
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 1: whether or not you put beef fit foods or you

701
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: put one in two it's cookies, or you put a

702
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: fucking pill in your body or whatever, it's something you're ingesting.

703
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 1: And so there's going to be a reaction. There's going

704
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: to be a physiological consequence, there's going to be an interaction.

705
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: It's going to work well, it's not going to work.

706
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: It's going to make no difference. It's going to make

707
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: a lot of difference. So too, when you do something

708
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 1: to your body, I am going to lift weights that's

709
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: interacting with your physiology. Well, I'm going to go for

710
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: a run that's interacting with your physiology. You're doing something

711
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: to that thing that you live in, and there's going

712
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: to be an outcome. It could be good, it could

713
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: be inert it could be significant, insignificant, it could be

714
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: fucking mind blowing. You know, I know hundreds of people

715
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 1: who physically and mentally and emotionally are better than they

716
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: used to be by a long time, a long way

717
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: because they just work out whereas they didn't used to

718
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: work out, And they're not Jim junkies, and they're not obsessed,

719
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: and they're not weirdos, and they I train four hours

720
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: a day. They just do their little thirty to sixty

721
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 1: minutes of something every day. But they're consistent, and their

722
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: depression's gone or it's less, their anxiety is gone or

723
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 1: it's less. And I'm not talking about four people I know.

724
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 1: I'm talking about fucking hundreds of people. Over the years

725
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: that I've been doing this and not only that, relationships

726
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: get better, confidence get better, energy gets better, interactions get better,

727
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: work gets better, because now I've done this thing to

728
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: my body and it all works better. And when my

729
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: body works better, my emotional system works better, my brain

730
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: works better, My fucking life is better, you know. So

731
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: now I'm on my side box. It's true, though, isn't it.

732
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 3: Oh, it's so true. It's so true, and I must think.

733
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 4: The main time this happened for me is after I'd

734
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 4: given birth to my first child, and you have.

735
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:57,879
Speaker 3: Sleep deprived, I'm trying to run.

736
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 4: I only had one business at this stay, but I

737
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 4: had twenty three stuff and I'd gone downstairs because my

738
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 4: baby had not stopped screaming for two and a half

739
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,720
Speaker 4: hours and I hadn't slept, and I took the carrier

740
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 4: with me, and I put her in the carry out

741
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 4: and I put on my headphones, and I got on

742
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 4: the treadmill and I ran it fifteen kilometers an hour

743
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 4: until I felt like I actually started bawling my eyes out,

744
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 4: crying because at the moment that I took my baby downstairs,

745
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 4: I could not feel love for that child anymore, because

746
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 4: I was breaking, I was tearing apart with what I

747
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 4: look back on might have felt like, might have been

748
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 4: postnatal depression.

749
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 3: I don't know.

750
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:43,439
Speaker 4: It was just no sleep, screaming child, and pressure upon

751
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 4: pressure for work. And I know that within I can't

752
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 4: run fifteen kilometers an hour on the treadmill very long,

753
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 4: so it probably was no longer than a couple of minutes.

754
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 4: I got off there, balling my eyes out, feeling so

755
00:42:55,800 --> 00:43:00,760
Speaker 4: grateful for my baby, and I realized that I hadn't

756
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 4: exercised for six weeks or something since having the baby,

757
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,959
Speaker 4: and I needed that chemical I needed that hit from

758
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 4: the treadmill to make me feel normal.

759
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, that's a good story, dude. Well, think about

760
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: like everything that we do to our body creates a

761
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: chemical biochemical response. Like laughter changes what's going on in

762
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 1: your brain. Laughter changes what's happening in your nervous system,

763
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 1: changes what's happening in your gut, changes what's happening with

764
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 1: your bloody immune system. It's like that's just laughing.

765
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, you know, And then there's sunshine, and then

766
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 5: there's quality sleep, and then there's somebody. Then there's tip

767
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 5: line on the floor with a fucking furry friends. You know.

768
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 1: It's like, I mean there are so many things, great

769
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 1: things that we can do to our body and for

770
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: our body that don't require a pill, which did not

771
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:08,240
Speaker 1: say you know, medication doesn't have a place. Definitely does yeah,

772
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: but it's like, yeah, well it's you know, what's going

773
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 1: on with you?

774
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 6: And is there another option other than that thing in

775
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 6: that container?

776
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And like you said at the start, there's probably

777
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 4: a lot of people listening that are on a weight

778
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 4: loss medication. And the thing is we need to support

779
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 4: them because they've taken action, they've done something, but a

780
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 4: lot of them are missing the education that goes with

781
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 4: that pill, the weight training minimum three times a week

782
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 4: and eating perfectly portioned, high protein, nutrient dense, fiber rich foods.

783
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 4: Otherwise I'll be constipated as hell, lose a heap of

784
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 4: muscle mass, and have no energy and no micronutrients. So

785
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 4: the hair will fall out, their nails are turned to crap,

786
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 4: the skin will turn to crap, and their brain won't work.

787
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 4: So the people that have taken that step, good on them.

788
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 4: But know that that's script comes with a lifestyle script.

789
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 4: And if you have not been given that lifestyle script,

790
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 4: pedestal back to Cray to make sure that he's reminding

791
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 4: people that. On every episode, I hear you talk about

792
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 4: exercise and food and health and sleep and sunshine all

793
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 4: the time, and they need to be hearing this because.

794
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:26,280
Speaker 3: It's not optional. You put that pill in your body,

795
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 3: it is not optional.

796
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 1: I mean, we're going to wind up, I know. But

797
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: this is what I do. I go, what's the best

798
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: thing I can do for my body? And then I

799
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,879
Speaker 1: do that. I do that. Yeah, you know, I go, oh,

800
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: is this better than that? Yeah, well that's better. Well

801
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: I'll do that then.

802
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 4: And people that are injured, what would you say. I'd say,

803
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 4: do the things that you can do. It's like people

804
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:55,720
Speaker 4: go to me, I've got a ninja and ankle.

805
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: Well, I go, I can give you fucking six hundred

806
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: exercises that you don't need your own. So next, you know,

807
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:08,280
Speaker 1: it's like if you and look, it's not about like yesterday,

808
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: I had to drive for five hours. I had to

809
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: go see my parents then take them up. I had

810
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: just had a mental day and it was just, you know,

811
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 1: crazy busy, and it was a strength training day for me.

812
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 1: And I got home at stupid o'clock and I was

813
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: fucked and I went, I'm having a day off, right,

814
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: But it's a conscious decision and it's not like, oh,

815
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: I'm being lazy or I'm being soft. It's like, well, Craig,

816
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: you've been You've done a million things. I'd already walked

817
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,720
Speaker 1: my ten thousand steps for the day, dah da da da,

818
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: and I just went, ah, I'm not doing it. And

819
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: then just before before we did this, I walked to

820
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 1: the gym down the one close by me in Hampton

821
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,280
Speaker 1: and I just lifted some shit. Felt great, and I'm back.

822
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: You know, it's not about being obsessed, like you're gonna

823
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:54,959
Speaker 1: have days off, You're gonna have You're gonna have meals

824
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: where you go. I'm going out and it's my Whoever's

825
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: party on Saturday, and I'm gonna cut lose a little bit.

826
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be a maniac, but I'm gonna yeah, great, great,

827
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: but don't cut loose for the week. You know. It's

828
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: like it's like just trying to build a healthy relationship

829
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 1: with your body, but also making healthy and practical choices

830
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: in real time as we navigate you know, being humans, Yeah,

831
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 1: navigate being a human? Where can people find you and

832
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 1: follow you?

833
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 4: Kate hate save on LinkedIn or Instagram or beefitfood dot

834
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 4: coms that you or around, beef it Food Australia Instagram.

835
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: And Kate didn't ask me to do this, but I've

836
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: had quite a few of her meals and they are

837
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: fucking great. So if you're in that space and you

838
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,359
Speaker 1: think I don't know which ones to get, like because

839
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 1: there's so many and this, so you can buy like

840
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: meals that look like, oh, this is healthy and then

841
00:47:54,920 --> 00:48:00,439
Speaker 1: run out by Bucks and it's like, ah, I say

842
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 1: what because I'm embarrassed. I wasn't going to tell you this,

843
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: but fuck it, I bought. I bought a couple of

844
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: things that kind of looked I'm like, oh, this is

845
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: not bad. It's like a bit of chicken. I got it.

846
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: I don't know what the chicken was, but it wasn't

847
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:11,800
Speaker 1: fucking chicken.

848
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 6: It was chickenish. It was chicken ish. I'm like, this

849
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 6: ain't chicken. This is like chicken flavored something. And the

850
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 6: amount of it was like chicken and rice sate or

851
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,439
Speaker 6: something like that. Well, let's say the thing weighed four

852
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 6: hundred grams, there would have been twenty grams of chicken

853
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,359
Speaker 6: in there, chicks around eighty grams of rice and this

854
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 6: horrible sauce. I'm like, and that's why I don't buy

855
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 6: this anyway.

856
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 4: It's called value apparently because they weigh it by the

857
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 4: gram in the supermarket, and the heavier it is, the

858
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 4: higher value it is, and it goes down, down, down. Wow,

859
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 4: fill up the trolley for less.

860
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, boom, Tiff, it's been great.

861
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 2: Thanks Harper. Shout out to Beefit Foods, Protein Bulls. They're

862
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,359
Speaker 2: real good. I ate all seven in the one day.

863
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 2: They come in a box of seven.

864
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:05,359
Speaker 3: It'd be good for your gut.

865
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:11,240
Speaker 4: House launched cookie and providing you'll probably be on the toilet.

866
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 1: I've never had I've never had one, but I mean,

867
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: feel free to just shuffle some way. We'll say goodbye.

868
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:18,839
Speaker 1: Thanks Kate.

869
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 3: Thanks