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Speaker 1: Agilespo. Welcome back to the You Project. How are you, sir?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good, good to be here.

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Speaker 1: There's no Tiff today. You're probably going to struggle.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I am. I'm struggling already.

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Speaker 3: Well, she will be listening to this tonight because she's

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Speaker 3: going to edit it. Lately, she's got allegedly influenza A

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Speaker 3: and in bed and crook.

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Speaker 1: Allegedly Tiff, she's got really got flato.

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Speaker 2: Right, feels like a day off.

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Speaker 3: No, I think she's actually crook. So shout out to Tiff.

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Speaker 3: Get better.

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Speaker 1: Now, I'm prepared to have one conversation. And you said

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Speaker 1: to me, I.

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Speaker 2: Thought, well, to the extent that you prepare at all,

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Speaker 2: let's be honest.

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Speaker 1: Well that is true, absolutely true.

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Speaker 3: So when I said prepared, I looked in LinkedIn and

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Speaker 3: saw the title of an article that you'd written.

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Speaker 1: No, that's not true. I've actually got qus questions.

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Speaker 2: But we can do that one too. We got time.

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Speaker 3: Let's see how we go, because I'm I think I've

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Speaker 3: spoken about a lot over the years and get asked

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Speaker 3: a lot about, especially working with athletes and bodybuilders and

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Speaker 3: the general public who are fascinated with, if not obsessed

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Speaker 3: with protein consumption and recovery and micros and macros and

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Speaker 3: how much of our deis and what we need and

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Speaker 3: don't need, and all the myriad of variables around nutrition.

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Speaker 3: But you wrote an article on protein. Firstly, what made

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Speaker 3: you write that? What was the genesis for you writing

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Speaker 3: an article on protein?

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Speaker 4: Noticing the advertising, I guess, and I honestly don't pay

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Speaker 4: a lot of attention to processed food advertising because I

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Speaker 4: barely eat processed food. But I've noticed now everything seems

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Speaker 4: to have protein as a selling feature. You know, you

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Speaker 4: got your up and go proteins and your nutro grain protein,

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Speaker 4: and your protein enhanced to ice cream. I don't think

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Speaker 4: they can actually call it up screwm if it doesn't

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Speaker 4: have certain levels of things in it, but they call

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Speaker 4: it a frozen dessert, you know, your protein enhanced to

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Speaker 4: food bars, your protein enhanced Milo breakfast cereal, you name it.

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Speaker 4: There's barely anything that now doesn't have a whacking great

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Speaker 4: protein thing on the label, and they're usually shouting numbers

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Speaker 4: at you, you know, contains fifteen grams or ten grams

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Speaker 4: or seven grams or seventeen grams, you know, so that

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Speaker 4: people can go ooh and ah and oh, that's got

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Speaker 4: seventeen grams in it.

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Speaker 2: So it occurred to me to ask, is this just

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Speaker 2: like fiber? Is this the.

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Speaker 4: Fiber of the you know, the current decade where you've

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Speaker 4: just got to put it on the label, you know,

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Speaker 4: and doesn't matter, doesn't make any difference at all. And

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Speaker 4: we've talked about fiber before, and in fact, probably fiber

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Speaker 4: makes the problem it purports to solve much worse in

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Speaker 4: that it's likely to cause constipation rather and cure it.

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Speaker 4: But protein, I wondered, is there anything to all this

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Speaker 4: protein stuff? I mean, I've known for a long time

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Speaker 4: because I used to hang out in gyms that you know,

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Speaker 4: people flog protein powders and people who do weights and

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Speaker 4: someone you know subsist on them, and so there must

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Speaker 4: be something to it.

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Speaker 2: I thought, But.

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Speaker 4: Does everyone who's knocking back a bowl of chocolate cereal

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Speaker 4: need extra protein? Do people eating ice cream need extra protein?

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Speaker 4: That was the question I was asking myself. So I

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Speaker 4: thought I'd start finding out and when digging and write

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Speaker 4: an article about what I discovered. So, you know, I

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Speaker 4: like to go into the history of things a bit,

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Speaker 4: So I wondered. The first question I wanted is how

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Speaker 4: much protein are we supposed to be having and where

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Speaker 4: on Earth did that come from?

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Speaker 2: And how do we know?

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Speaker 3: I think what did you find? Is it zero point

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Speaker 3: eight grams for kilo body.

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Speaker 4: Point eight or in Australia point eight four? I think

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Speaker 4: it is for some bizarre reason. So, and that came

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Speaker 4: out of some studies that were done in during the

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Speaker 4: Second World War where the US military was trying to

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Speaker 4: figure out what's the least we can give a human

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Speaker 4: to keep them alive? Essentially, you know, what's what's the

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Speaker 4: least we can at what's the level below which we

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Speaker 4: no longer have an effective fighting machine? And they commissioned

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Speaker 4: some scientists or redirected their efforts from finding out cures

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Speaker 4: to diseases and things, and said, listen, we really need

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Speaker 4: to know this stuff. We need to know you know,

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Speaker 4: what's our minimum? How much can we get away with

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Speaker 4: giving people? And the answer came back with a resounding well,

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Speaker 4: we're not really sure, because the science at the time

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Speaker 4: and probably honestly now, was a bit unsciency. It consisted

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Speaker 4: mostly of rat studies and not many of them, and

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Speaker 4: a few tiny little human trials of two or three

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Speaker 4: patients in a hospital and things like that, and most

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Speaker 4: of them were people who were suffering from severe protein

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Speaker 4: deficiency anyway, and so we're running into issues with amino

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Speaker 4: acid building and all that sort of thing. So the

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Speaker 4: answer was, we don't know, but cobbling together what they

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Speaker 4: did have, they came up with a number and doubled it.

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Speaker 4: So they came up with a number around the point

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Speaker 4: for and said, that's probably below that. Probably we're not sure,

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Speaker 4: but just guessing below that, you might be in trouble.

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Speaker 2: But they weren't.

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Speaker 4: Happy having that as the recommendation because who knows, it

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Speaker 4: could be really wrong. So they built in a margin

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Speaker 4: of eera if you like, and bumped it too point

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Speaker 4: eight and said, day, that'll do. We'll say that it's

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Speaker 4: point eight per kilo. Now people might be wondering, who

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Speaker 4: aren't jim junkies, what that means in terms a normal

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Speaker 4: person can understand. So point eight of a kilo for

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Speaker 4: an average adult is for a male, that's around sixty

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Speaker 4: four ish kilo grams of protein a day, and for

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Speaker 4: a female it's around forty six grams of protein a day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so the equation is point eight, yeah, point.

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Speaker 4: Per point eight of a gram, you know, per kilo

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Speaker 4: body weight.

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Speaker 3: If you get your body weight times up by point eight.

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Speaker 3: So if you're yeah, yeah, times point eight gives you

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Speaker 3: fifty six, if you're one hundred gives you eighty yeah.

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Speaker 4: So obviously it's those numbers that I just gave you

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Speaker 4: just an average, right, you know, if you look at

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Speaker 4: the average body weight, then that's what it's going to be.

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Speaker 4: And you might be thinking, you know, what does that

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Speaker 4: translate to in terms of I could eat? Well, a

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Speaker 4: chicken breast is fifty grams of protein. So if you

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Speaker 4: ate a chicken breast, had a chicken sand which or whatever,

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Speaker 4: and assumed you ate nothing else that contained protein all day,

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Speaker 4: which would be impossible since significant amount of protein comes

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Speaker 4: from grains.

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Speaker 2: But we'll talk about that in sec you fifty. If

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Speaker 2: you just ate a chicken breast, you're at fifty grams.

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Speaker 2: So if you're a woman, you're already there.

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Speaker 4: You're done, You've already hit the minimum requirements. If you're

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Speaker 4: a man, you're almost there. The average Australian, it turns out,

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Speaker 4: is not at risk of any kind of protein deficiency

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Speaker 4: because the average Australian is already at almost twice that

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Speaker 4: level that the er point eighty four grams per day

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Speaker 4: thing is, so sixty four grams, the average stran's actually

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Speaker 4: eating about ninety five grams of protein a day, So

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Speaker 4: none of us are at any risk of being deficient

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Speaker 4: in protein, and most of us are well over the

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Speaker 4: one and a.

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Speaker 2: Half times the recommended minimum.

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Speaker 4: And people might be saying, oh, that's all well and

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Speaker 4: good for you cow munches, but I'm a vegetarian or

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Speaker 4: a vegan, so I'm not getting anywhere near that, And

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Speaker 4: that's not true either. You know, significant amounts of protein

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Speaker 4: are found in things like legumes and grains, like breads,

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Speaker 4: breakfast cereals, things like that. In fact, about a quarter

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Speaker 4: of all Australia's protein comes from cereals alone, so it's

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Speaker 4: not just eating meat. And all Australians are well and

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Speaker 4: truly north of or the vast majority of us well

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Speaker 4: and truly north of it, probably in the range one

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Speaker 4: and a half times to two times the minimum recommendation,

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Speaker 4: which remember in itself was padded.

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Speaker 2: So there's no risk of protein deficiency.

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Speaker 4: So then why is all of our food labeled and

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Speaker 4: even in many cases supplemented with extra protein? And that

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Speaker 4: was the question I was asking, which is, what are

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Speaker 4: the benefits are there benefits from there. What do you

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Speaker 4: think the benefits are, Craig Jim hangaroud r.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So, I mean the interesting thing about microme macro nutrients.

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Speaker 3: So with some proteins like rice, wheat, beans, lentils, peanuts, corn,

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Speaker 3: they have a fair bit of protein, but they're not

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Speaker 3: complete proteins, so they exactly they lack some of the

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Speaker 3: nine essential amino acids. Right, So not all, not all,

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Speaker 3: just like not all calories are equal, not all grams

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Speaker 3: of protein are equal.

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Speaker 1: But I'm with you. I think there's a real marketing

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Speaker 1: thing that's that's kind of bullshit.

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, the thing is just like you know,

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Speaker 3: you give old mate five almonds and they're great for him,

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Speaker 3: and you give old mate over their five almonds and

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Speaker 3: he has an anaphylactic reaction and dies. Right. So the

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Speaker 3: thing is that these different things interact differently with different

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Speaker 3: people's physiology, because while everyone's physiology is similar, it's not identical.

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Speaker 3: And so one of the other things too, is that

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Speaker 3: like our dieyes operate on the assumption that people need

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Speaker 3: about the same amount of everything every day, which with

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Speaker 3: some people is true, with some people is wildly untrue.

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Speaker 1: Like I reckon.

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Speaker 3: Some days I need two thousand calories, maybe fifteen hundred

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Speaker 3: because I sit on my arse all day and writes,

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Speaker 3: and other days I would need four thousand to break even.

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Speaker 3: So it's a variable, not a constant.

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Speaker 1: And I think also.

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Speaker 3: There's another thing that people don't factor in.

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Speaker 1: You, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Have you heard of thermogenesis in relation to food? Anyway,

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Speaker 3: I'll just explain it. So the thermogenic effect of food

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Speaker 3: means this. So one hundred calories of protein versus one

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Speaker 3: hundred calories of fat versus one hundred calories of carbohydrate,

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Speaker 3: there's a different energy costs for each of those macro

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Speaker 3: nutrients breaking them down to be utilizable in the body. So,

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Speaker 3: for example, the thermic effect or the thermic cost of

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Speaker 3: protein from one hundred calories is about thirty calories, So.

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Speaker 1: The net result of calories with that is about seventy.

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Speaker 3: But with fat one hundred calories of fat, you're only

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Speaker 3: losing about three calories in that process, in that metabolic process.

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Speaker 3: So it is really interesting, and I think a lot

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Speaker 3: of the thinking now is that point eight of a

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Speaker 3: grand pekilo body bah bah blah blah. Is for the

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Speaker 3: general public. Probably some are in the ballpark, but for

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Speaker 3: people who.

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Speaker 4: Well and for the general public significantly less than they're

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Speaker 4: consuming anyway.

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Speaker 1: And so.

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Speaker 2: We relieve there is some actual science on this answering

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Speaker 2: the question of.

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Speaker 4: You know, is it is is it possible to have

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Speaker 4: too much protein?

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Speaker 2: Is there is there a downside to having too much protein?

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Speaker 4: Is there is there a problem with is there a

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Speaker 4: limit by beyond which there's no point adding protein? And

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Speaker 4: the answer is yes, we we've done some science on

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Speaker 4: this stuff. And one of the bits of science split

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Speaker 4: people into groups where they weren't protein supplementing, where they

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Speaker 4: were protein supplementing and by one and a half times

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Speaker 4: the RDA, and another group where they were protein supplementing

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Speaker 4: by two times the idea. And what they found is

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Speaker 4: that there were benefits to building muscles. So they had

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Speaker 4: both of them. They had all three groups working out weightlifting,

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Speaker 4: et cetera, building muscle over a period of time, and

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Speaker 4: what they found was that the people who were on

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Speaker 4: one and a half times the RDA, which is basically

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Speaker 4: the average person in the Australian population, right, so the

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Speaker 4: person the people who were in that group did get benefits.

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Speaker 4: They were able to put on more muscle mass than

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Speaker 4: the group who were not being supplemented at all. But

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Speaker 4: the interesting bit was that once they looked at the

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Speaker 4: two times RDA, it didn't make any difference. So the

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Speaker 4: people with the two times we're doing just as they

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Speaker 4: also put on muscle mass compared to the people who

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Speaker 4: weren't being supplemented, but it was the same as the

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Speaker 4: people who one and a half times, So.

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Speaker 2: There was clearly a plateau.

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Speaker 4: You know, there is a benefit if weightlifting you're lifting

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Speaker 4: is your thing, and you're trying to build muscle mass,

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Speaker 4: then there is a benefit to increasing the amount of

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Speaker 4: protein too, about what the average as train is consuming anyway,

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Speaker 4: so you wouldn't need to do anything to do that.

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Speaker 4: You just continue eating as normal. But going any further

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Speaker 4: than that doesn't seem to have any particular benefit at all.

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Speaker 1: So do you reckon? Do you reckon that number?

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Speaker 3: If you're talking about one and a half times point eight,

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Speaker 3: so we're talking then one point two per is that

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Speaker 3: the number, give or take?

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Speaker 1: Do you reckon? No?

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Speaker 2: One point five?

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Speaker 4: So one point five one point five if you if

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Speaker 4: you're wanting to build muscle mass, one point five so

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Speaker 4: oh sorry, yeah, that would be one point two grams

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Speaker 4: per I misunderstood you. Sorry, one point two grams per

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Speaker 4: per kiler seems to be about the mark and going

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Speaker 4: beyond that, really, you know, getting up to say one

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Speaker 4: point six or one point seven one point eight doesn't

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Speaker 4: make any difference. The interesting thing is that we've also

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Speaker 4: had the question, okay, but what if you just go

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Speaker 4: crazy and really pump it, you know, put as much

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Speaker 4: protein as you can. Fine, in can you have too much?

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Speaker 2: And the answer is.

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Speaker 1: No, but.

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Speaker 4: No, if your kidneys are healthy. Yes, if your kidneys

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Speaker 4: are healthy, you'll be fine.

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Speaker 2: They will deal with that and they'll be fine.

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Speaker 4: They can adapt and the butt there is almost none

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Speaker 4: of us in our modern Australian society have healthy kidneys

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Speaker 4: because most of us are consuming a diet full of

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Speaker 4: sugar and sugar via the uric acid pathway REX kidneys.

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Speaker 4: There's a reason that we are in the middle of

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Speaker 4: an epidemic of kidney disease in this country. It's because

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Speaker 4: we're in the middle of an epidemic of consuming too

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Speaker 4: much sugar. Sugar consumption REX kidneys. The bad thing about

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Speaker 4: wrecking kidneys is that your kidneys are actually really resilient

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Speaker 4: and can function even if they're ninety five percent impaired.

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Speaker 4: So most people whose kidneys are wrecked don't know it.

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Speaker 4: But believe me, if you're on a high sugar diet,

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Speaker 4: you have done damage to your kidneys. So coming back

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Speaker 4: to the original question we asked, which is is it

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Speaker 4: a thing to consume too much protein? Well, yeah, it

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Speaker 4: is if your kidneys aren't tickety boo, And for a

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Speaker 4: lot of Australians the answer is maybe they're not. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: And then that brought me full circle to Okay, but

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Speaker 4: most of the food that is proudly proclaiming that it

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Speaker 4: is full of extra protein is actually very very high

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Speaker 4: sugar food. You know, we've got sugar sugary ice creams

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Speaker 4: or frozen desserts that are protein enhanced, chocolate cereals that

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00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:37,200
Speaker 4: are protein enhanced, muslely bars that are protein enhanced. So

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00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:41,280
Speaker 4: sure they're protein enhanced, but you're a consuming protein you

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Speaker 4: probably don't need, and b also consuming the sugar that

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Speaker 4: would damage your ability to deal with the protein you

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Speaker 4: probably don't need.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, dred percent. And that's the thing. It's like.

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Speaker 3: So let's say you've got a musli bar that's thirty

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Speaker 3: percent sugar, and you know it might have five grams

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Speaker 3: of protein per bar and.

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Speaker 1: Thirty grams of sugar.

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Speaker 3: But five grams of protein and a musli bar is

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Speaker 3: probably double the average.

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Speaker 1: Museley Bart, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: You know, contextually it's high, but in real terms it's

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00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,399
Speaker 3: it's six times the sugar as the protein. But that

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Speaker 3: nobody's going to buy that.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so where does this all take you?

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Speaker 2: Is my?

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00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,760
Speaker 4: You know what does this mean? It means you probably

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00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,880
Speaker 4: don't need extra protein. If you do want extra protein,

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00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:38,600
Speaker 4: because there was clearly a benefit to muscle gain by

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00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:42,160
Speaker 4: having protein of about one point two grams for kilo

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Speaker 4: per day. If you want that, get it from meat

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Speaker 4: so that it's complete, and don't get it from sugary

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Speaker 4: food that claims to have extra protein.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny because I'm I get asked a lot

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Speaker 3: about how much protein do I need? And look, protein matters,

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Speaker 3: and but and I think, actually, people who train very hard,

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Speaker 3: and I'm talking about people who are athletes somewhere closer

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Speaker 3: to the elite end right, I'm not talking about the

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Speaker 3: general population, but I reckon they need more maybe too.

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Speaker 4: Well, they probably do. There's under there are other studies.

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Speaker 4: Sorry I was talking about a study of average people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that's you.

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Speaker 4: There are other studies on weightlifters who show that there

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Speaker 4: are benefits. If weightlifting lifting is your gig and you

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00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 4: are going for mister Universe or whatever it is, then

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Speaker 4: there are significant benefits. I mean, muscles at the end

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Speaker 4: of the day are made from protein, so there are

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Speaker 4: clear benefits if that is what you are doing to

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Speaker 4: increasing protein, as long as once again, you're carefully managing

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Speaker 4: it and your kidneys aren't screwed. But it's it's what

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Speaker 4: I'm talking about, is the man in the street who's

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Speaker 4: walking past shelf after shelf protein enhanced food that it's

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Speaker 4: also heavily sugar enhanced. And the answer there is you

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Speaker 4: don't need the extra protein, and if you feel you do,

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Speaker 4: get it from meat or dairy, both excellent sources of protein,

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00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,399
Speaker 4: giving you complete proteins and without all the sugar.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I get asked a lot about you know, not that

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00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,320
Speaker 3: I'm the high watermark for anything, but because I train

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00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,040
Speaker 3: all the time and I've been all that, and people

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00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:31,520
Speaker 3: are always not everyone, not always, but but a lot

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Speaker 3: of people are regularly surprised by how little I eat

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00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:40,439
Speaker 3: and how little I use supplements or promote anything. And

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Speaker 3: I'm sponsored. I'm sponsored by a company. I'll say they're

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00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:44,800
Speaker 3: know Maxes, and they give me all the shit that

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Speaker 3: I want, right, and they're great. But when somebody goes

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Speaker 3: to me, do I need Should I take a protein supplement?

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Speaker 3: I say no, not if you get enough protein, Like

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Speaker 3: if you've got enough protein in your diet, which you

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00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:59,320
Speaker 3: probably have, then you don't need to supplement with protein obviously,

348
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,960
Speaker 3: just like if your cars full of petrol, you don't

349
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Speaker 3: want to keep trying to pour petrol in the tank

350
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Speaker 3: because it's fucking full.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't need.

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00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 3: It, so you know it's it's you can only and

353
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,159
Speaker 3: at that point that one point two grams you know

354
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,159
Speaker 3: for the average punts or a little bit higher for

355
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Speaker 3: the athlete in training or the strength athlete or the

356
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Speaker 3: power athlete.

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Speaker 1: You know that's going to go up.

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Speaker 3: But there is a point, like there's a threshold where

359
00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,680
Speaker 3: you know, let's say your cutoff is one point too well,

360
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,680
Speaker 3: you can have ten, you're going to get You're only

361
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 3: going to get, you know, more disadvantages than benefits, right,

362
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,920
Speaker 3: because your body can only use utilize what it can utilize.

363
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 4: You know, it can utilize up to about two, So

364
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:47,160
Speaker 4: up to about two then it's flushing the rest and

365
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,520
Speaker 4: and the way it's doing that is through your kidneys,

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Speaker 4: which is fine if your kidneys are okay.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I remember I don't know if you remember this,

368
00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,080
Speaker 3: but years ago at the Australian Open, I think it

369
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,400
Speaker 3: was the Australian Open. It was about a million degrees

370
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 3: in Melbourne and Pat do you remember you remember the

371
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:07,320
Speaker 3: tennis player Pat.

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00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,880
Speaker 2: Rafter, Yeah, you're a boy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

374
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:16,199
Speaker 3: So he had this physiological it's not a condition, but challenge.

375
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,200
Speaker 1: That he could.

376
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 3: He used to sweat like ridiculously, like more than the

377
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,879
Speaker 3: other athletes, and so one of the challenges that he

378
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:31,359
Speaker 3: had was trying to stay hydrated, and he would typically

379
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 3: sweat more than he could hydrate because your body can

380
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 3: only you can only put in like your body can

381
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,920
Speaker 3: only absorb so much. And so when you take too

382
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,880
Speaker 3: much water in a short period of time.

383
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 1: What's it called.

384
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 3: I think it's called hyperneutremia or something where you dilute

385
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 3: your blood, like you lower everything, you know, to the

386
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 3: point where you can almost kill yourself. But yeah, your

387
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 3: body you can you can't, just.

388
00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 2: I think you can. I think they have been death

389
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 2: recorded from that.

390
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:07,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, so all tastic and all of that gets diluted

391
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,119
Speaker 3: and then people have died through that. But yeah, but

392
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 3: the bottom line is your body can only absorb what

393
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 3: it can absorb.

394
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:19,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's okay as long as the body's in

395
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,199
Speaker 4: good working order. But if you've been chowing down on

396
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,199
Speaker 4: sugar filled snacks to get your protein, there's a good

397
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:24,880
Speaker 4: chance it isn't.

398
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,239
Speaker 3: And so for what are your thoughts around people who

399
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 3: are listening to this, who are you know, vegans and

400
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 3: vegetarians and so you know, they might be consuming like

401
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 3: a fair bit of protein, but yeah, not necessarily complete proteins.

402
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 3: And by that we mean everyone that proteins built essentially

403
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 3: of these things called amino acids, and not all protein

404
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 3: contains all of the there's nine essential amino acids that

405
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 3: we need, I.

406
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 2: Think, like with everything.

407
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, at the risk of offending half

408
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 4: your audience, vegan and vegetarian is not a natural way

409
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 4: for a human, which is an omnivore, to eat. So

410
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 4: our entire metabolism is designed by evolution to be an omnivore,

411
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 4: which means our body makes assumptions about the fuel we're

412
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 4: going to be giving it, and one of those assumptions

413
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 4: is going to contain some meat. So the advice about

414
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 4: this is the same as the advice about many things

415
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 4: for vegetarians and vegans, which is you have to be

416
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 4: aware of the things you're not getting and make sure

417
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 4: you are appropriately supplementing to cover those gaps, because there

418
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 4: are gaps, and this is one of them.

419
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 1: I just did a quick little search before.

420
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 3: While you're talking about the vast amount of sugar that

421
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 3: people consume, I don't know how accurate this is. I

422
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 3: would have thought it was more than this, but it

423
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 3: says the average as he consumes fourd and tea spoons

424
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 3: of kind of additional sugar per day.

425
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 4: Have you been reading the sugar industry's website? Have you

426
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 4: let me tell you the real data. The real data

427
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 4: is it's about forty tea spoons. Yeah, right, yeah, it's

428
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 4: about forty tea spoons. And you'll find there's some interesting

429
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 4: definitions and assumptions in whenever they throw those kinds of

430
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 4: numbers around. So, but the reality is the ABS.

431
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,400
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, well it.

432
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 4: Is the ABS, but it'll be additional sugar and it'll

433
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 4: be so they're saying, we're going to exclude all the

434
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 4: other sugar in the diet. And the ABS, by the way,

435
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 4: stopped collecting data on sugar consumption in nineteen ninety eight

436
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 4: when they discontinued that series. So this is a you know,

437
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 4: back when Sweet Poison came out, we had the whole

438
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 4: Sugar Wars and went through all this stuff. The reality

439
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 4: is the sugar industry makes very it makes it very

440
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 4: very hard to find any accurate data on how much

441
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 4: sugar we're consuming. The best guess is it's about forty

442
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 4: t spoons per person per day.

443
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: Hell, and what's it is? A teaspoon four or.

444
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 2: Four grands four?

445
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: But that's all.

446
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 4: Oh now, yeah, But as I said to you before,

447
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 4: that's easy to get to. Like a lot of people

448
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 4: say to me, there's no way, I'm not forget it,

449
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 4: I'm not eating forty teaspoons of sugar. But when they

450
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 4: realize there's sixteen teaspoons in a canna coke or that

451
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 4: you can push back from a heart foundation indoors to breakfast,

452
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 4: you know, like like nutrient group well, you know, like

453
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 4: sultana bran and a glass of orange juice, and you're

454
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 4: already at twenty teaspoons of sugar.

455
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 2: You know, it's very very easy to get there.

456
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so.

457
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 3: I don't know if I told you this some shed

458
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 3: a couple of times, but I remember when my dad

459
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 3: had his first heart attack. I went into hospital is

460
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:53,360
Speaker 3: that two? And they so he's diabetic, like an insulin

461
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:58,239
Speaker 3: dependent diabetic. And I just happened to arrive when they

462
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 3: were bringing his more tea. And his morning tea was

463
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 3: orange juice and scones and jam and cream. Yeah, this

464
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 3: is for the guy that's a diabetic. This is what

465
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 3: they fed him in hospital.

466
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, but that cream was low fat. Oh god, it

467
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 4: was probably sweetened, but low fat.

468
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, anyway, they.

469
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 4: Probably also gave him an hour glass of low fat

470
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 4: milk to go with it.

471
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,199
Speaker 3: Are you particularly particular about your diet or are you

472
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 3: a bit freestyle? Like do you do you have a

473
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 3: do you have a protocol or do you just eat

474
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 3: when you're hungry and eat what you want and stop

475
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 3: when you're not hungry?

476
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 2: Yeah?

477
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 4: That I in particular about. One thing is I don't

478
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 4: consume anything that contains sugar. Yeah, and I don't, so

479
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 4: you know, I'll have a pie and chips, but I

480
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 4: won't have any sauce on the pie, and the chips

481
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 4: have to not be cooked in seed oil.

482
00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 3: People don't understand that regular old white Crow tomato sauce

483
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 3: or Heinz tomato sauce is about is mostly sugar fifty

484
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 3: sugar and barb sauces. Barbecue sauce is worse. Right.

485
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 4: Barbecue sauce is about fifty five percent sugar, depending on

486
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 4: the brand. The average tomato sauce is about a quarter

487
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 4: to a third.

488
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 1: Sugar, right, Okay, I thought it was higher.

489
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 4: Yeah. So so every time you give a decent sized

490
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 4: squirt of sauce on your on your sausage and bread,

491
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 4: you're probably adding a couple of teaspoons of sugar to it.

492
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 3: So when you go to Bunnings and you get a

493
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 3: bangerah which is made from god knows what and white

494
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 3: bread with half a let.

495
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 2: What saws canola in it, yeah yeah.

496
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 3: And canola oil, it's probably not your ideal nutritional snack,

497
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 3: is it.

498
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 2: Yeah? But there are worse things you could eat, and

499
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:47,479
Speaker 2: people do eat all the time. You know.

500
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 4: It's like when people say, oh, would you eat at McDonald's,

501
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 4: I would if they you know, if it was three

502
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 4: two thousand and four, McDonald's because then they cooked in

503
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 4: animal fat, but now they cook in teat oil.

504
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:00,160
Speaker 2: So no, sorry, I can't.

505
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 3: Remember I sent you something, and then I think subsequently

506
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 3: you wrote a little piece about it. One of them

507
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 3: was it Burger King or one of them as reverted

508
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 3: to using beef tallow in their court.

509
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 4: Ah. No, that's a mob in the United States. And

510
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 4: they had a great logo. Actually they said you had

511
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 4: me at Tellow. That's right, and they're a pretty big

512
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 4: chain in the United States. But yeah, they've switched over.

513
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 4: They've said, stuff this, We're just going to cook it

514
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 4: in animal fat. And you know, everyone loves their chips,

515
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 4: of course, because chips cooked animal fat are a lot

516
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 4: nicer than cook's chips cooked in seed oil, and they're

517
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 4: also much healthier for them. I wish there was a

518
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 4: chain here that did that, you know, prior to twenty

519
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 4: twelve there was, so McDonald switched over in two thousand

520
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 4: and four twenty twelve, KFC hung on until and then

521
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 4: they switched over then. But I almost earned myself a

522
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 4: divorce one day because I heard on the radio that

523
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 4: they were doing that, and this was the last day

524
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 4: are going to be cooking in animal fat. So I

525
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 4: stopped in at the local kfceing got you know, a

526
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 4: celebratory last packet of fries, but I didn't bring some

527
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 4: home for my wife and yeah, that didn't go down.

528
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 3: Well wow, that could have been the marital camels back.

529
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 3: But it's always fun chatting to you. Oh, I had

530
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 3: one last question I've asked you this current Remember do

531
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 3: you drink booze? Yeah?

532
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, not a lot, but I'll you know, if

533
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 2: someone's having a drink, I'll have a drink with them.

534
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: So what are your thoughts about that?

535
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 3: So? I mean, I guess it moderation, like what do

536
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 3: you have a glass of wine here and there or something.

537
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 4: I really hate the word moderation because its definition is

538
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 4: to most people, whatever I'm currently consuming is in moderation.

539
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 4: So I think it's a weasel word invented by the

540
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 4: food industry so that people can feel okay about whatever

541
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 4: they're consuming. There's a really hard limit on alcohol. We

542
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 4: can talk about alcohol another da actually becau. There's a

543
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 4: really interesting science on this. We have an evolutionary limit

544
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 4: of the equivalent of about two drinks worth in a

545
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 4: day because and the evolutionary limit comes from we evolve

546
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 4: the ability to deal with alcohol at all because we'd

547
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 4: occasionally scoff down over ripe fruit which has got fermented

548
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 4: sugars in it, which is where alcohol comes from. So

549
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 4: we can't be an animal that can't deal with alcohol.

550
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 4: Alcohol is a poison, right, so if you can't deal

551
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 4: with it, it kills you. So so we have evolved an

552
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 4: ability to deal with alcohol in small quantities, just like

553
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 4: we have a deal we'll deal with alcohol before it's fermented,

554
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 4: which is when it's a sugar. We can deal with

555
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 4: that in small quantity too when we write fruit. So

556
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 4: we have an ability to deal with it. What we

557
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 4: can't do is we can't adapt that ability, So as

558
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 4: we drink more and more alcohol, we overwhelm the circuitry

559
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 4: or bio chemical circuitry that deals with diffusing alcohol. And

560
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 4: the interesting part about this, and we'll talk about it

561
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 4: in detail on another day, but the interesting part about

562
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 4: this is that same circuitry is used to deal with

563
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 4: the dangerous byproducts of consuming seed oils. So we've talked

564
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 4: before about old hides. Alcohol produces alder hides, seed oils

565
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 4: produce alder hides. Unfortunately, it all goes down the same pipe.

566
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 2: And if we've.

567
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 4: Overwhelmed our ability to deal with those older hides by

568
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 4: drinking alcohol, we're even less able to deal with the

569
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 4: seed oil ones and vice versa. So it's extremely dangerous.

570
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 4: There are very good reasons not to drink large corantities

571
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 4: of it, but it's also by the same token, something

572
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 4: that you can have the occasional drink and it's not

573
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 4: going to hurt you.

574
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, people freak out when I tell them I go.

575
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: You know, alcohol's poisonous.

576
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,959
Speaker 3: You know, your body recognizes it as poison, and it's

577
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 3: got to metabolize that before it. So if you have

578
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 3: five pizzas and a beer and five beers, it's got

579
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 3: to deal with the beer before the pizza.

580
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it is a poison.

581
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 4: You're right, it is a poison, and thankfully we've got

582
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 4: the ability to diffuse it. But it's a limited a

583
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 4: blit of it.

584
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, and what a glorious poison it is. Some people, Mate,

585
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 3: I appreciate. We'll say goodbye off here, but thanks again, buddy.

586
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, pleasure