WEBVTT - Travis Auld, CEO Grand Prix Australia 0:00:05.881 --> 0:00:13.481 Appoche Production. Welcome to another episode of Brave Always, the 0:00:13.521 --> 0:00:16.841 CEO series. This series, we launch into the new world 0:00:17.001 --> 0:00:18.480 of brave leadership. 0:00:18.601 --> 0:00:20.761 Happy people create happy businesses. 0:00:20.561 --> 0:00:22.921 True emotionally intelligent leadership. 0:00:22.961 --> 0:00:25.041 I've picked up vomit once on our about our fourth 0:00:25.041 --> 0:00:27.561 flight and everybody thought, well, if it's good enough for him, 0:00:27.681 --> 0:00:28.401 I can do it Now. 0:00:28.481 --> 0:00:31.601 We will be joined by culture and leadership experts and 0:00:31.641 --> 0:00:35.441 some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth 0:00:35.521 --> 0:00:39.641 behind their brave leadership journeys. Welcome to another episode of 0:00:39.681 --> 0:00:42.600 Brave Always. Today, I am thrilled to be joined by 0:00:42.641 --> 0:00:45.801 the CEO of the Australian Grand Prix Corporation, Travis Alt. 0:00:46.001 --> 0:00:48.081 Travis has had nearly thirty years at the helm of 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:51.281 some of Australia's largest sporting institutions during some of the 0:00:51.361 --> 0:00:54.521 most turbulent times, a sporting fanatic and a hugely well 0:00:54.561 --> 0:00:57.881 respected leader for his authenticity and energy. I am pretty 0:00:57.921 --> 0:01:00.161 pumped to have you on here today, so welcome Travis. 0:01:00.361 --> 0:01:01.921 Thanks for having memro. I'm looking forward to it. 0:01:01.961 --> 0:01:05.000 Travis. In my experience interviewing people of your professional calub 0:01:05.441 --> 0:01:08.720 there's this lovely little link which often is like humble beginnings. 0:01:08.761 --> 0:01:10.441 I don't know. That's what I've experienced, that sort of 0:01:10.441 --> 0:01:13.481 shakes how they ended up leading later in life. Now 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:17.321 I know you were born in Tatura, Victoria, small rural town. 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:19.521 I think it's like less than five thousand people. When 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:22.721 I googled what's Tatura famous for a little pub appeared. 0:01:22.801 --> 0:01:24.920 I'm assuming it's more than that. Is it? This famous 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:25.761 little pub is there? 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:27.880 It's got three pubs. It's had three thousand, six hundred 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:29.641 people for as long as I'm sort of know, which 0:01:29.721 --> 0:01:31.840 means I don't count very often. They're very humble beginning. 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:33.800 It's very fortunate. But I grew up in a small town, 0:01:34.041 --> 0:01:35.840 was raised. You know, they say it takes a village. 0:01:36.721 --> 0:01:39.841 I was raised by the Tatura community, very grounded upbringing, 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:42.681 very fortunate. I never sort of missed any opportunities or 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:45.481 without anything. But my parents are still into Tura. Yeah 0:01:45.481 --> 0:01:47.681 I get back there. Yeah. It was a very sporting, 0:01:47.881 --> 0:01:50.801 very outdoor upbringing, and there's a lot of that still 0:01:50.841 --> 0:01:52.921 in May now. It's particularly in my leadership. 0:01:53.041 --> 0:01:55.520 Did you always envisage leaving like? Was it I'm never 0:01:55.561 --> 0:01:56.201 going to stay here? 0:01:56.281 --> 0:01:56.361 Like? 0:01:56.441 --> 0:01:58.321 Did you have grand plans quite young to say I 0:01:58.321 --> 0:01:59.401 want to get out of here and get to the 0:01:59.441 --> 0:01:59.921 big smoke. 0:02:00.561 --> 0:02:03.561 Maybe, I mean I my definition of the big smoke 0:02:03.601 --> 0:02:06.121 when I was into Tura was some smaller than Melbourne. 0:02:06.161 --> 0:02:08.001 No one felt really big when I was a child, 0:02:08.041 --> 0:02:10.721 and so I actually went to university in Bendigo. Three 0:02:10.761 --> 0:02:13.161 thousand people to a sixty or seventy thousand people was 0:02:13.161 --> 0:02:15.401 a much more palatable step than going straight to Melbourne. 0:02:15.401 --> 0:02:17.521 And so I went to the University at Latrobe in 0:02:17.601 --> 0:02:20.361 Bendigo allowed me to come back on weekends and play sport, 0:02:20.601 --> 0:02:22.641 and it was nice stepping stone for them. What was 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:24.361 the big smoke some years after that? 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:27.161 Yeah, right, I mean I feel for me in particular. 0:02:27.281 --> 0:02:30.000 Always having a strong male role model when you're younger 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:32.361 is a big part of helping people shape how they 0:02:32.361 --> 0:02:34.400 grow up. Who was yours? Was that your dad? Was 0:02:34.441 --> 0:02:36.520 it somebody else in the community. What did they teach you? 0:02:36.641 --> 0:02:39.241 Certainly my father to some degree, he taught me a 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.441 lot about hard work, hard work and being relationship focused. 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:44.361 I've got an older brother three years older than me. 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:46.841 He probably paved the way for me and I still 0:02:47.041 --> 0:02:49.361 talked very regularly and look up to him and what 0:02:49.401 --> 0:02:51.401 he does in his career, and so probably him, as 0:02:51.481 --> 0:02:53.801 much as anyone, is sort of the person that's shaped 0:02:53.841 --> 0:02:55.840 me very early on. You always want to be like 0:02:55.881 --> 0:02:57.401 your older brother, and I tookaly wanted to be that, 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:00.041 but also that the local football club, local cricket club. 0:03:00.321 --> 0:03:01.800 As I was sort of coming through the ranks, you'd 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:03.401 always have people go to take you under their arm. 0:03:03.441 --> 0:03:05.680 And developed a lot of friendships and great memories through 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:07.120 playing football. But I was never going to create a 0:03:07.161 --> 0:03:09.761 career through playing sport right And in fact, I never 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:12.400 really had ambitions of working in sport. It just wasn't 0:03:12.401 --> 0:03:14.000 a natural pathway that was in front of me. I 0:03:14.081 --> 0:03:15.801 saw of fell into it, which I'm sure we'll get to. 0:03:16.161 --> 0:03:17.521 Yeah, yeah, well, I was going to say, and then 0:03:17.841 --> 0:03:20.280 you decided to become an accountant. I actually find it 0:03:20.321 --> 0:03:22.960 really funny. There's so many CEOs of interview who always 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:25.161 sat as accountants, and so I'm trying to figure out 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:27.241 is that like you just had a passion for numbers, 0:03:27.641 --> 0:03:29.961 or is this like some long term strategy that you 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:31.041 know you're going to end it at the top and 0:03:31.081 --> 0:03:32.481 you need to start off as an accountant. 0:03:33.081 --> 0:03:34.400 I think it's the thing you do when you don't 0:03:34.441 --> 0:03:36.561 know what you want to do is that it was 0:03:36.601 --> 0:03:38.561 for me. I didn't really know what I wanted to 0:03:38.561 --> 0:03:40.961 do post doing Year twelve or post university. So I 0:03:40.961 --> 0:03:43.641 thought having a really good grounding in finance was going 0:03:43.641 --> 0:03:45.961 to be important and it would open up more opportunities. 0:03:46.041 --> 0:03:47.641 And then I knew were available at the time, and 0:03:47.721 --> 0:03:50.081 so I went off and did a Bachelor of Business 0:03:50.201 --> 0:03:53.041 at the Trophy Bendigo and it's always been a good grounding. 0:03:53.041 --> 0:03:54.681 I went and worked in a chartered accounting firm. That 0:03:54.761 --> 0:03:57.161 was my first opportunity. I was there for three or 0:03:57.161 --> 0:03:59.641 four years and you love it, I did. I love it. 0:03:59.721 --> 0:04:01.401 I think it was a really good background. I worked 0:04:01.401 --> 0:04:03.641 in audit and so the beauty of or it was, 0:04:03.721 --> 0:04:05.961 yes fully faces a bit. The beauty of order for 0:04:06.081 --> 0:04:08.041 me was that you get exposed a whole lot of 0:04:08.041 --> 0:04:10.481 different businesses and so you work on different things all 0:04:10.481 --> 0:04:12.521 the time. And that's how I got my first role 0:04:12.721 --> 0:04:15.921 at the Essiden football Club. I was their author. Yeah, 0:04:16.001 --> 0:04:18.521 so I was really fortunate. I worked from the large 0:04:18.641 --> 0:04:20.441 charter of the canning firms in Melbourne. I've got sent 0:04:20.521 --> 0:04:22.760 to London for a while to their sister firm for 0:04:23.001 --> 0:04:25.201 someone from Tatura that was a big move and it 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:28.361 was a great experience. Came back and you got approached 0:04:28.561 --> 0:04:30.520 to join the Essendon Football Club and so I thought 0:04:30.561 --> 0:04:32.481 why not? And that's how I ended up in sport. 0:04:32.641 --> 0:04:34.121 So when people say, hey, did you get in sport? 0:04:34.161 --> 0:04:35.841 Tell me the pathway to get in the sport. I'm 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:37.721 not the person to talk to you in terms of 0:04:38.081 --> 0:04:39.721 how I got into sport. I sort of fell into 0:04:39.761 --> 0:04:41.080 it and there have been there ever since. 0:04:41.641 --> 0:04:44.361 Yeah, right, okay, there you go. You did play a 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:46.481 number of key roles during your tenure at the NFL. 0:04:46.641 --> 0:04:48.841 From COO I think it was an incident as well, 0:04:48.921 --> 0:04:50.960 and then obviously the inaugural CEO at the Gold Coast 0:04:50.961 --> 0:04:54.401 Suns to CFO and GM at d AFL. So now 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.121 that you've left the world of football, looking back, what 0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:59.601 did it teach you about great leadership? 0:05:00.001 --> 0:05:03.601 Lots? I think sport is a wonderful environment to learn 0:05:03.641 --> 0:05:07.841 about leadership, learn about team, learn about social license, about 0:05:07.841 --> 0:05:10.041 the role that you play that exists beyond what you 0:05:10.081 --> 0:05:11.881 directly think your day to day job is. And so 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:15.601 if you think about from a working in clubs is 0:05:15.681 --> 0:05:18.080 quite different than working at the AFL. From a helper perspective, 0:05:18.121 --> 0:05:20.441 working at both clubs taught me a lot, probably maybe 0:05:20.481 --> 0:05:22.960 in some cases different things because of my role. My 0:05:23.041 --> 0:05:25.481 first sort of foray into AFL was Esthmate Football Club, 0:05:25.641 --> 0:05:28.961 very successful, big club. You get to see athletes coming 0:05:29.001 --> 0:05:31.361 together as a team and achieving incredible things and some 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:34.201 of the things that sit within that leadership. We had 0:05:34.241 --> 0:05:37.241 Kevin Sheedy as our coach for twenty five years, incredibly 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.001 successful coach, and I learned a whole lot from how 0:05:40.001 --> 0:05:43.200 he went about leading the team. It's the best example 0:05:43.241 --> 0:05:46.001 you'll get a high performance, high performance environment. These guys 0:05:46.041 --> 0:05:48.441 are trying to get better every day, they're getting marked publicly, 0:05:48.721 --> 0:05:51.721 there's a big spotlight on them. So from an understanding 0:05:51.761 --> 0:05:55.001 how teamwork works, the importance of culture, that was really important. 0:05:55.801 --> 0:05:57.921 So my transition was I was at the Essenmon Football 0:05:57.921 --> 0:06:01.001 Club for eleven years. I had been approached to be 0:06:01.041 --> 0:06:03.761 a successor to the CEO, Peter Jackson, who's been there 0:06:03.801 --> 0:06:06.601 for some time. I thought, given that I'd sort of 0:06:06.601 --> 0:06:08.961 fallen into the role that I was in, that I 0:06:09.001 --> 0:06:11.841 should probably go through a process somewhere to hone my 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:14.880 interview skills. The role came up to be the CEO 0:06:14.921 --> 0:06:16.841 of the Gold Coast Suns, and I thought, I'll jump 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.320 into that process. It would just be good experience for me. 0:06:19.521 --> 0:06:22.080 I had no really intention of moving too Queensland, but 0:06:22.161 --> 0:06:24.161 I thought, it'll just make me think a little bit 0:06:24.201 --> 0:06:26.401 about who I am, I'm good at when I need 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:29.081 to get better at what skills I have, And it did. 0:06:29.241 --> 0:06:31.161 I went from a long list to over a period 0:06:31.201 --> 0:06:32.841 of time, a pretty short list. And as I've got 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:35.001 down to that short list, it's sort of dawned on 0:06:35.041 --> 0:06:38.041 me that what of incredible experiences would be to really 0:06:38.041 --> 0:06:40.521 step outside my comfort zone? Strange It would be much 0:06:40.521 --> 0:06:42.681 easier probably stay at the Essident Football Club. There's one 0:06:42.721 --> 0:06:45.241 hundred years of history, there's a whole framework that you 0:06:45.361 --> 0:06:48.841 operate within, there's a big supporter base. But I decided 0:06:49.201 --> 0:06:51.361 towards the end of the interview process for the Gold 0:06:51.361 --> 0:06:53.961 Coast Suns that I really wanted the job. Sort of 0:06:54.001 --> 0:06:55.681 built this plan that I thought that it would be 0:06:55.681 --> 0:06:58.361 exciting to execute. It would completely take me out of 0:06:58.361 --> 0:07:00.960 my comfort zone. I hadn't been a CEO before, so 0:07:01.281 --> 0:07:03.161 not only would I be a CEO, but in a 0:07:03.161 --> 0:07:06.441 new organization, in a new in an area that hadn't 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:08.801 had it so forty ten before. And so I tell 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:10.161 us a bit about me, probably that I like to 0:07:10.161 --> 0:07:11.561 step out of white culport zone. 0:07:11.441 --> 0:07:12.241 And getting that vibe. 0:07:12.321 --> 0:07:14.601 It's probably where I learned best and perform best. And 0:07:14.641 --> 0:07:17.921 so I was fortunate enough to get the role. And 0:07:17.961 --> 0:07:20.521 so Gold Coast was a bit more about learning about me, 0:07:20.681 --> 0:07:23.201 learning about leadership in a setting where I have a 0:07:23.281 --> 0:07:27.001 truly blank canvas. And so that was a wonderful experience 0:07:27.001 --> 0:07:28.841 of sort of five or six years of setting up 0:07:28.881 --> 0:07:29.801 the Gold Coast sons. 0:07:30.161 --> 0:07:31.921 So like, I have to ask this because I mean, one, 0:07:31.961 --> 0:07:34.361 I think that's great in terms of listeners, like go 0:07:34.481 --> 0:07:36.241 for interviews that you don't even think you're going to 0:07:36.281 --> 0:07:38.201 get as part of the experience. I mean, obviously you 0:07:38.241 --> 0:07:39.441 don't know what's going to happen. A lot of people 0:07:39.441 --> 0:07:41.801 don't do that right. They want to be completely lined 0:07:41.841 --> 0:07:43.721 up and ready for the job. Okay, we've got to 0:07:43.721 --> 0:07:46.001 talk about this thing. Obviously I read online you like 0:07:46.121 --> 0:07:48.361 being nervous or you enjoy it, which comes with this. 0:07:48.601 --> 0:07:50.601 You know you love putting yourself at eat comfort zone. 0:07:50.761 --> 0:07:54.161 From a neurological perspective, the brain doesn't often like that naturally, 0:07:54.241 --> 0:07:58.041 right in at the anytime things are different from familiarity, 0:07:58.081 --> 0:08:00.641 the brain goes ear reject that. So how have you 0:08:00.721 --> 0:08:03.081 hacked this? It's just like you just were born with 0:08:03.121 --> 0:08:06.121 an ability to go anything that feels different, uncomfortable, challenging, 0:08:06.201 --> 0:08:09.121 I gravitate towards or is this something that you go 0:08:09.201 --> 0:08:11.481 through with some inner narrative that makes you do this? 0:08:11.521 --> 0:08:12.841 Because it's actually not that common. 0:08:13.001 --> 0:08:14.961 Now, I've asked myself the same question, because it's not 0:08:15.001 --> 0:08:16.961 always you know, sometimes I put myself in a positions 0:08:17.041 --> 0:08:18.521 I want to do. It is and Gold Coast was 0:08:18.521 --> 0:08:21.081 an example of that. I'm not sure why that is 0:08:21.121 --> 0:08:23.521 the case. I do know though, that I thrive in 0:08:23.561 --> 0:08:26.321 those environments. Okay, I thrive in an environment where there 0:08:26.361 --> 0:08:29.761 is uncertainty, where I feel like I'm being stretched. That 0:08:29.841 --> 0:08:32.361 was the best example of that Gold Coast. It also 0:08:32.441 --> 0:08:35.641 occurred when I left the AFL. Yes, I stayed in sport, 0:08:35.681 --> 0:08:38.161 but I knew not much about the sport. So I 0:08:38.201 --> 0:08:40.841 always look for those opportunities and I think it's satisfying, 0:08:40.881 --> 0:08:43.841 it's invigorating. It really tests me, but I enjoy it. 0:08:44.001 --> 0:08:47.201 So where do self doubt play in your life? Travis? Then, seriously, 0:08:47.201 --> 0:08:48.761 at some point you could have gone as it's actually 0:08:48.761 --> 0:08:50.321 a very good idea. Am I going to fail? What 0:08:50.321 --> 0:08:51.201 are people going to think? 0:08:51.681 --> 0:08:54.401 Yeah? It exists in my life, Absolutely it does. I'm 0:08:54.441 --> 0:08:58.081 a big believer in reflecting. Okay, not in any great 0:08:58.121 --> 0:09:00.081 formal way, but you know, often when I make a 0:09:00.081 --> 0:09:02.001 big decision, or I need to make a big decision, 0:09:02.001 --> 0:09:03.401 I often want to spend a bit of time just 0:09:03.401 --> 0:09:05.761 reflect on how when about that decision I made? What 0:09:05.881 --> 0:09:08.081 I do it differently when I was at the Goldco Suns, 0:09:08.281 --> 0:09:09.681 we knew there was going to be a tough start. 0:09:09.921 --> 0:09:11.481 The way when I'm building the team is that weren't 0:09:11.521 --> 0:09:14.201 going to win very often early on, hopefully built some momentum, 0:09:14.281 --> 0:09:17.041 and so I remember early days we'd have a staff 0:09:17.081 --> 0:09:19.641 maning every Monday and we'd have a difficult game on 0:09:19.681 --> 0:09:21.001 the weekend and get it in front of the staff. 0:09:21.041 --> 0:09:22.521 And so we are exactly where we need to be, 0:09:22.841 --> 0:09:25.281 where exactly where thought we'd be. We've got all LEAs 0:09:25.281 --> 0:09:28.081 steps in place, but know what we're doing, It'll be fine. 0:09:28.161 --> 0:09:30.401 Because I needed them to believe where we are going. 0:09:30.601 --> 0:09:33.321 I remember ginning in my car driving home, thinking, Holy help, 0:09:33.441 --> 0:09:35.401 are we where we need to be right now? Am 0:09:35.401 --> 0:09:37.321 I doing this the right way? What could I do 0:09:37.361 --> 0:09:40.321 differently and better. But I needed to project that self confidence. 0:09:40.361 --> 0:09:42.601 You need to be real and authentic about where we are. 0:09:43.361 --> 0:09:45.041 But also your role as a leader is to make 0:09:45.081 --> 0:09:47.881 sure that people have confidence and where we're going. And 0:09:47.921 --> 0:09:50.881 so there's no doubt sometimes sort of behind the wall 0:09:50.881 --> 0:09:53.441 a but you sit back and question yourself. I actually 0:09:53.481 --> 0:09:55.961 think that's quite healthy. I'm actually comfortable that I don't 0:09:55.961 --> 0:09:58.761 have self doubted accept that it paralyzes me, but I 0:09:58.801 --> 0:10:01.121 certainly have self doubt that keeps my feet on the 0:10:01.121 --> 0:10:04.201 ground because when you're leading in sport is a lot 0:10:04.201 --> 0:10:06.841 of scrutiny. There's sort of low barriers to entry for 0:10:06.881 --> 0:10:08.841 people to provide their opinions about how they think you're 0:10:08.881 --> 0:10:10.881 going with your role, and so if you wanted to 0:10:10.961 --> 0:10:13.801 jump online in any important time, particularly in my role 0:10:13.841 --> 0:10:15.801 at the AFL, I had a lot of people telling 0:10:15.801 --> 0:10:17.521 me how to do my job, although I haven't done 0:10:17.521 --> 0:10:19.401 a very good job. And so there's a real balance 0:10:19.441 --> 0:10:22.161 between having some people around you that you rely on 0:10:22.201 --> 0:10:24.761 to give you feedback, being able to do that yourself, 0:10:25.081 --> 0:10:28.241 look yourself in the mirror and have pretty honest conversation 0:10:28.321 --> 0:10:31.441 with how you're going, but not then sort of extending 0:10:31.441 --> 0:10:34.161 that to listen to every voice that's coming through just 0:10:34.241 --> 0:10:37.561 his noise, because then you will start to paralyze yourself. 0:10:37.561 --> 0:10:39.321 And that's been the sort of learning for me over 0:10:39.321 --> 0:10:40.241 a long period of time. 0:10:40.601 --> 0:10:43.081 Yeah, amazing, there's a bit of ted Lasso in there 0:10:43.121 --> 0:10:46.001 around the positivity. I remember talking to a friend of 0:10:46.041 --> 0:10:48.081 yours who was part of their Goldkos Sons and he 0:10:48.121 --> 0:10:50.281 would lose it every time you guys would lose a 0:10:50.281 --> 0:10:52.321 game like freak Out, And I was thinking, well, in 0:10:52.361 --> 0:10:55.001 your position, like did you sit there on Saturday nights 0:10:55.001 --> 0:10:57.441 and Friday night's going, oh God, can't lose this one? 0:10:57.961 --> 0:11:00.721 You have those, I mean, that's sport. Being a leader 0:11:00.721 --> 0:11:03.041 in sport in some ways, your job is to keep 0:11:03.081 --> 0:11:05.761 things calm's highest people think they are, the lows is 0:11:05.761 --> 0:11:08.041 not as low as they are, and to have a 0:11:08.081 --> 0:11:11.241 consistency in terms of how you're leading that isn't necessarily 0:11:11.241 --> 0:11:13.441 attached to how you went on the weekend. And so 0:11:13.961 --> 0:11:16.721 I think one of the things I've developed over twenty 0:11:16.801 --> 0:11:19.201 five plus years of working in sport is the ability 0:11:19.201 --> 0:11:22.681 to sort of remain calm when everything else around yous areen. 0:11:22.761 --> 0:11:25.401 But I love that. So you mentioned before about authenticity, 0:11:25.441 --> 0:11:27.361 So I wanted to touch on that because in my 0:11:27.481 --> 0:11:30.521 Brave model of leadership, the A is authenticity, which for 0:11:30.641 --> 0:11:33.241 me I defined it as I'm going to choose the 0:11:33.281 --> 0:11:37.041 opportunity to connect over the chance of rejection. Right, and 0:11:37.121 --> 0:11:39.841 you being in such a high profile public role, there 0:11:39.841 --> 0:11:43.201 has to be some challenges with being completely authentic at times, 0:11:43.401 --> 0:11:46.361 so saying exactly what you want to say, showing your emotions. 0:11:46.521 --> 0:11:48.321 Do you feel that there are times where you were like, 0:11:48.481 --> 0:11:50.321 I'm not being as authentic as I want to because 0:11:50.361 --> 0:11:50.801 I can't. 0:11:51.081 --> 0:11:53.641 There's a difference between not being authentic as opposed to 0:11:53.681 --> 0:11:56.001 not being able to share all the information you might 0:11:56.081 --> 0:11:58.721 want to share. So I'd like to say that I 0:11:58.761 --> 0:12:02.561 would be authentic pretty much all the time, and sometimes 0:12:02.561 --> 0:12:04.401 that is by saying that, actually, sorry, I can't answer 0:12:04.401 --> 0:12:07.721 that question. I can't share that information. And so it's 0:12:07.761 --> 0:12:09.361 a really good question in the sense that you're always 0:12:09.401 --> 0:12:12.201 a balance between being really honest with people without being 0:12:12.241 --> 0:12:14.481 able to telling everything they want to know because people's 0:12:14.481 --> 0:12:18.041 livelihoods are involved, or there's sensitive information that you can't 0:12:18.081 --> 0:12:19.921 share at that point in time. That happens a lot, 0:12:20.001 --> 0:12:23.361 particularly in my AFL role. But if you can stand 0:12:23.441 --> 0:12:26.481 up in the most difficult times and share that information, 0:12:26.521 --> 0:12:28.521 whether it's with your staff or whether it's with the media, 0:12:28.561 --> 0:12:30.321 to be able to say, hey, I know that you 0:12:30.361 --> 0:12:32.241 would like to help this information. Some of it I 0:12:32.281 --> 0:12:33.761 have something that I don't Some of the stuff I 0:12:33.761 --> 0:12:36.121 have I can't share with you. I'd found over time 0:12:36.161 --> 0:12:37.921 that that builds a bit of trust that tends to 0:12:37.921 --> 0:12:40.321 be accepted in the context of sort of authenticity. 0:12:40.641 --> 0:12:41.881 You might have been the first one to say that. 0:12:41.921 --> 0:12:44.521 I think it's a very big lesson, and authenticity is 0:12:44.521 --> 0:12:47.881 sometimes saying actually can't give you that information, versus pretending 0:12:48.121 --> 0:12:50.081 or going down some other pathway. I think that's when 0:12:50.081 --> 0:12:51.801 people get it wrong. You can say I don't know 0:12:51.921 --> 0:12:54.161 or I can't tell you. There's a great takeaway for people. 0:12:54.361 --> 0:12:57.081 So obviously, over this entire period of career, can you 0:12:57.161 --> 0:13:00.761 think of one particular time where you felt really exposed 0:13:00.801 --> 0:13:01.481 and vulnerable. 0:13:01.801 --> 0:13:04.121 Yeah. I think my experience of leading to Gold Coast 0:13:04.121 --> 0:13:06.241 SUMS was a bit like that, because you're building everything 0:13:06.241 --> 0:13:09.521 with scratched But probably the better example is during COVID, 0:13:09.761 --> 0:13:12.561 during the pandemic, when my role at the AFL was 0:13:12.721 --> 0:13:17.081 running finance, running broadcasting, running fixturing, and I've seen the 0:13:17.081 --> 0:13:19.841 club relationships, which puts you right in the center for 0:13:19.881 --> 0:13:22.681 better or worse of all the issues will trying to 0:13:22.761 --> 0:13:25.801 solve during COVID. So I just felt a huge sense 0:13:25.841 --> 0:13:30.201 of responsibility. Initially, that's responsibility was to keep the game going, 0:13:30.361 --> 0:13:33.001 to make sure that we could pay our people and 0:13:33.041 --> 0:13:35.401 the clubs could pay their players and staff, that we 0:13:35.481 --> 0:13:39.201 could continue playing week in week out. That responsibility quickly 0:13:39.241 --> 0:13:43.401 shifted from that to a sense of responsibility because people 0:13:43.401 --> 0:13:46.321 were looking at football and other forms of sport for 0:13:46.321 --> 0:13:48.481 a sense of hope because I were locked in the 0:13:48.481 --> 0:13:50.881 homes all day and so the ability to at the 0:13:50.921 --> 0:13:52.841 end of a day turn the television on and watch 0:13:52.841 --> 0:13:55.881 their team play was something more than just that. And 0:13:55.961 --> 0:13:58.241 I was getting that feedback pretty early on during the 0:13:58.281 --> 0:14:01.121 pandemic that please keep the game going because it's the 0:14:01.121 --> 0:14:02.721 one thing that is a bit of a showing light 0:14:02.761 --> 0:14:04.721 for us at the moment. And I felt that sense 0:14:04.761 --> 0:14:07.401 of respon's ability before. And so that was probably the example 0:14:07.401 --> 0:14:09.001 where it's like I've got a job to do here. 0:14:09.321 --> 0:14:11.121 That is probably one of more important jobs that I've 0:14:11.121 --> 0:14:12.201 ever done in my career. 0:14:12.281 --> 0:14:14.921 In terms of dealing with that. Was the certain things 0:14:14.921 --> 0:14:16.721 you did in your life to help you manage that stress. 0:14:17.081 --> 0:14:19.081 I think we'd all give examples of what we did 0:14:19.241 --> 0:14:22.481 during the pandemic that didn't didn't work for me is 0:14:22.601 --> 0:14:24.961 very obvious, but it worked out pretty quickly that you know. 0:14:25.001 --> 0:14:26.281 The things that put me in a position to lead 0:14:26.321 --> 0:14:28.281 well is I need sleep, We've got to eat well, 0:14:28.361 --> 0:14:31.121 I need exercise. And so a couple of those got 0:14:31.121 --> 0:14:33.281 taken away from me really quickly during the pandemic. Were 0:14:33.281 --> 0:14:35.881 working pretty silly hours, like a lot of people were exercised, 0:14:35.881 --> 0:14:38.561 were difficult, and so I put myself in a hole 0:14:38.601 --> 0:14:40.681 pretty quickly, and I needed to then try and at 0:14:40.721 --> 0:14:43.761 least get two of those back together again and put 0:14:43.761 --> 0:14:45.801 myself in a position where I can make myself available 0:14:45.841 --> 0:14:48.001 to lead. That was sort of the key pillar is 0:14:48.041 --> 0:14:50.241 how do I get myself right first? Because we were 0:14:50.281 --> 0:14:52.201 asking a lot about each other during those times, and 0:14:52.201 --> 0:14:54.401 there was a lot of stress, and then it became 0:14:54.601 --> 0:14:56.761 a bit about team. There was a small group of 0:14:56.841 --> 0:14:59.561 us who realized on each other. There was displays of 0:14:59.601 --> 0:15:02.441 vulnerability during COVID that I've not seen before. We really 0:15:02.441 --> 0:15:04.801 got into each other's lives, were in lounge rooms every 0:15:04.881 --> 0:15:07.921 day on teams goals, and we got to see first 0:15:07.961 --> 0:15:10.881 hand the impact of the pandemic on people's personal lives, 0:15:10.921 --> 0:15:13.401 and so I have a sense of connection with maybe 0:15:13.441 --> 0:15:15.641 half a dozen people through that period that is much 0:15:15.681 --> 0:15:18.601 deeper than you would normally have in any normal work 0:15:18.601 --> 0:15:21.361 setting that still exists today. You know, there's times that 0:15:21.361 --> 0:15:23.401 I felt really vulnerable. There's times also when I was 0:15:23.401 --> 0:15:25.241 probably my st rewarding part of my career. 0:15:25.441 --> 0:15:27.841 So after twenty five years and leadership roles, you obviously 0:15:27.881 --> 0:15:29.841 had your site set on the top job at the AFL, 0:15:30.321 --> 0:15:31.841 and I think a lot of people had bets on 0:15:31.881 --> 0:15:34.441 you getting that role, and I think it was pretty hard. 0:15:34.481 --> 0:15:37.321 Youous twelve month recruitment process that you went through, and 0:15:37.361 --> 0:15:39.441 then obviously you did miss out on the role. So 0:15:39.841 --> 0:15:42.841 resilience for me is key when it comes to great leadership. 0:15:43.001 --> 0:15:45.081 You know, obviously bouncing back is one thing, but also 0:15:45.121 --> 0:15:48.401 preparing yourself for the obstacles. So I'm interested to know 0:15:48.801 --> 0:15:52.161 how did you prepare for a twelve month recruitment process 0:15:52.201 --> 0:15:55.121 and all that came with, And then I guess how 0:15:55.161 --> 0:15:57.641 did you process the disappointment of it not happening and 0:15:57.681 --> 0:15:58.441 bounce back from that. 0:15:59.121 --> 0:16:01.561 Yeah, I don't think I did prepare for a twelve 0:16:01.601 --> 0:16:04.281 month that's probably more than that if you're going to 0:16:04.281 --> 0:16:06.561 put yourself in a process to be the CEO of 0:16:06.561 --> 0:16:08.081 the AFL, and you know it's going to come with 0:16:08.121 --> 0:16:10.361 some scrutiny, and scrutiny wasn't something that was foreign to me. 0:16:10.361 --> 0:16:12.521 I've worked in footy for twenty years and so I 0:16:12.601 --> 0:16:15.561 knew a lot about being judged publicly on a regular basis, 0:16:15.681 --> 0:16:17.481 and I had a tight group around me that would 0:16:17.481 --> 0:16:19.841 support me through that. I probably thought, there's a three 0:16:19.921 --> 0:16:21.881 or four month process coming up, but I'm going to 0:16:22.041 --> 0:16:24.401 come into some scrutiny. I just need to focus on 0:16:24.521 --> 0:16:26.881 what I can control. But then it became much longer. 0:16:27.201 --> 0:16:30.001 I think one of my strengths because of the roles 0:16:30.001 --> 0:16:32.721 that I've had, is I'm quite resilient. I can generally 0:16:32.721 --> 0:16:35.841