1 00:00:03,900 --> 00:00:06,930 Jennifer Duke: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Jennifer 2 00:00:06,930 --> 00:00:10,679 Jennifer Duke: Duke. We all love a good entrepreneur story. Even better 3 00:00:10,679 --> 00:00:13,560 Jennifer Duke: when it's a purpose- driven business with a social conscience, 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,369 Jennifer Duke: and especially when that business is toilet paper. Who Gives 5 00:00:17,369 --> 00:00:20,009 Jennifer Duke: A Crap is one of the big Australian success stories 6 00:00:20,009 --> 00:00:22,950 Jennifer Duke: of the last decade, donating millions of dollars to improve 7 00:00:22,950 --> 00:00:27,030 Jennifer Duke: access to clean water and sanitation. Simon Griffiths is the co- 8 00:00:27,030 --> 00:00:30,090 Jennifer Duke: founder and CEO of Who Gives A Crap. Simon, welcome 9 00:00:30,090 --> 00:00:30,840 Jennifer Duke: to Fear and Greed. 10 00:00:31,469 --> 00:00:32,759 Simon Griffiths: Yeah, thank you. It's great to be here. 11 00:00:33,269 --> 00:00:35,608 Jennifer Duke: So can we start at the very beginning? Where did 12 00:00:35,609 --> 00:00:37,470 Jennifer Duke: the idea come from for Who Gives A Crap? 13 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,080 Simon Griffiths: Oh, I know we're not talking for too long, so 14 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:42,510 Simon Griffiths: I'm going to have to abbreviate the story as much 15 00:00:42,510 --> 00:00:44,909 Simon Griffiths: as I can, but I think what really resonated with 16 00:00:44,909 --> 00:00:47,190 Simon Griffiths: the three founders that we have in the business was 17 00:00:47,550 --> 00:00:51,989 Simon Griffiths: this understanding that, at the time, sanitation was the most 18 00:00:51,990 --> 00:00:54,389 Simon Griffiths: off track of all of the development goals that existed. 19 00:00:54,389 --> 00:00:58,110 Simon Griffiths: There was about 2. 4 billion people globally without access 20 00:00:58,110 --> 00:01:01,110 Simon Griffiths: to adequate sanitation, and that sounds like it might not 21 00:01:01,170 --> 00:01:03,600 Simon Griffiths: be such a big deal, but if you think about 22 00:01:03,900 --> 00:01:06,659 Simon Griffiths: going without access to a toilet for a day, let 23 00:01:06,660 --> 00:01:08,519 Simon Griffiths: alone a week or a year, you can start to 24 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,580 Simon Griffiths: understand the negative health consequences that come for you personally, 25 00:01:11,580 --> 00:01:14,369 Simon Griffiths: but also the people in your community around you when 26 00:01:14,370 --> 00:01:16,770 Simon Griffiths: no one has access to a toilet. And so the short 27 00:01:16,770 --> 00:01:19,020 Simon Griffiths: version of that story is that bad stuff ends up 28 00:01:19,020 --> 00:01:21,629 Simon Griffiths: in water that's then used to cook, clean, or wash, 29 00:01:21,929 --> 00:01:24,179 Simon Griffiths: and that results in diarrhea- related disease that is the 30 00:01:24,179 --> 00:01:27,150 Simon Griffiths: number one filler of hospital beds in Sub- Saharan Africa 31 00:01:27,509 --> 00:01:29,999 Simon Griffiths: and the second- largest killer of children under the age 32 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:31,080 Simon Griffiths: of five globally. 33 00:01:31,170 --> 00:01:31,500 Jennifer Duke: Gosh. 34 00:01:31,830 --> 00:01:34,620 Simon Griffiths: Yeah. Kills about 700 kids under the age of five 35 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,789 Simon Griffiths: every single day. So it's a huge problem, and fortunately, 36 00:01:38,789 --> 00:01:41,189 Simon Griffiths: one that we do actually know how to solve. We 37 00:01:41,190 --> 00:01:44,369 Simon Griffiths: have to provide people with access to not just clean 38 00:01:44,370 --> 00:01:47,609 Simon Griffiths: toilets and clean water, but also education around why hygiene 39 00:01:47,609 --> 00:01:51,360 Simon Griffiths: and sanitation is so important. We realized that this was 40 00:01:51,690 --> 00:01:56,460 Simon Griffiths: massively off track because toilets and sanitation aren't great dinner 41 00:01:56,460 --> 00:01:58,860 Simon Griffiths: party conversation. They're not something that people want to talk 42 00:01:58,860 --> 00:02:01,380 Simon Griffiths: to other people about. And so we saw an opportunity 43 00:02:01,380 --> 00:02:04,259 Simon Griffiths: to not just raise some money to help try and 44 00:02:04,260 --> 00:02:07,680 Simon Griffiths: solve this problem, but also to raise some awareness about 45 00:02:07,980 --> 00:02:11,250 Simon Griffiths: the actual problem itself by talking about a product that 46 00:02:11,370 --> 00:02:12,810 Simon Griffiths: we all use every single day. 47 00:02:14,130 --> 00:02:17,340 Jennifer Duke: So, where did that inkling of, " Let's use toilet paper 48 00:02:17,790 --> 00:02:19,919 Jennifer Duke: to talk about this issue and to raise some funds..." 49 00:02:20,340 --> 00:02:22,709 Jennifer Duke: Why was it toilet paper? What drew you to it? 50 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,970 Simon Griffiths: Well, I think I'd been turning over this idea for 51 00:02:27,330 --> 00:02:30,780 Simon Griffiths: almost a decade, probably since early days at university, of 52 00:02:31,050 --> 00:02:33,870 Simon Griffiths: how to use the skillset, which for me was economics 53 00:02:33,870 --> 00:02:36,419 Simon Griffiths: and engineering, how to use that skillset to have an 54 00:02:36,419 --> 00:02:38,758 Simon Griffiths: impact on a problem that I truly cared about which 55 00:02:38,758 --> 00:02:42,149 Simon Griffiths: was about social mobility in other parts of the world. 56 00:02:42,810 --> 00:02:45,570 Simon Griffiths: The penny dropped that it was possible to create businesses 57 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,750 Simon Griffiths: here in Australia and use the profits from purchases to 58 00:02:49,050 --> 00:02:52,589 Simon Griffiths: donate to help create social impact somewhere else. And so 59 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,459 Simon Griffiths: bringing all of that together after mulling over this problem 60 00:02:56,460 --> 00:02:59,489 Simon Griffiths: and thinking about, " What's a product that everyone needs regardless 61 00:02:59,490 --> 00:03:02,040 Simon Griffiths: of where they live in the country or what their 62 00:03:02,070 --> 00:03:05,400 Simon Griffiths: beliefs are or how much money they have?" I one 63 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,350 Simon Griffiths: day walked into the bathroom and saw a six- pack 64 00:03:07,350 --> 00:03:08,789 Simon Griffiths: of toilet paper and said, " Oh my God, that's it. 65 00:03:08,790 --> 00:03:10,860 Simon Griffiths: We should sell toilet paper, call it Who Gives A 66 00:03:10,860 --> 00:03:13,409 Simon Griffiths: Crap, and use half of our profits to help provide 67 00:03:13,410 --> 00:03:17,129 Simon Griffiths: access to toilets around the world." So that quarter- second 68 00:03:17,129 --> 00:03:19,889 Simon Griffiths: business idea epiphany that you sometimes hear about was exactly 69 00:03:19,889 --> 00:03:21,810 Simon Griffiths: what happened to me, and I got out of the 70 00:03:21,810 --> 00:03:24,660 Simon Griffiths: bathroom after washing my hands and I called three friends 71 00:03:24,660 --> 00:03:26,669 Simon Griffiths: and said, " What do you think of this idea?" And 72 00:03:26,669 --> 00:03:28,200 Simon Griffiths: they all said, " I love it. You've got to do 73 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,480 Simon Griffiths: it." And the third friend that I called was Jehan 74 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:32,758 Simon Griffiths: Ratnatunga, who became one of the co- founders and helped 75 00:03:32,758 --> 00:03:33,750 Simon Griffiths: get the business off the ground. 76 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:40,140 Jennifer Duke: I'm glad that you wash your hands. That's the first thing. Well, 77 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,580 Jennifer Duke: definitely, particularly when you're caring so much about sanitation, and 78 00:03:44,580 --> 00:03:47,400 Jennifer Duke: obviously, one of the things as someone who's a bit 79 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,650 Jennifer Duke: particular about my toilet paper and I like a certain 80 00:03:49,650 --> 00:03:52,889 Jennifer Duke: number of plies, the design is actually very important to 81 00:03:52,889 --> 00:03:55,290 Jennifer Duke: me and I assume a lot of other people. How 82 00:03:55,290 --> 00:03:57,420 Jennifer Duke: much of a focus was getting the design right as 83 00:03:57,420 --> 00:03:58,950 Jennifer Duke: part of this development process? 84 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,830 Simon Griffiths: Yeah, it's a really good question. I think that, particularly 85 00:04:01,830 --> 00:04:05,429 Simon Griffiths: when we were getting started, design was something that was 86 00:04:05,429 --> 00:04:08,009 Simon Griffiths: lacking across a very large number of product categories, and 87 00:04:08,009 --> 00:04:10,829 Simon Griffiths: I think that's changed as what is now known as 88 00:04:10,830 --> 00:04:13,590 Simon Griffiths: a direct- to- consumer business has become a more popular 89 00:04:14,130 --> 00:04:17,550 Simon Griffiths: concept. But our third co- founder, Danny, one of the co- 90 00:04:17,550 --> 00:04:20,130 Simon Griffiths: founders, he at the time was working in a design 91 00:04:20,130 --> 00:04:24,120 Simon Griffiths: thinking consultancy called IDEO. org, and as we were thinking 92 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,389 Simon Griffiths: about bringing this concept to life, we'd run a successful 93 00:04:27,389 --> 00:04:31,230 Simon Griffiths: crowdfunding campaign, but we honestly thought that the path to 94 00:04:31,230 --> 00:04:34,229 Simon Griffiths: market was going to be through supermarkets. And it wasn't 95 00:04:34,230 --> 00:04:36,990 Simon Griffiths: until after that crowdfunding campaign was completed that we realized 96 00:04:36,990 --> 00:04:41,399 Simon Griffiths: that we had a thousand customers in households, but no 97 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,948 Simon Griffiths: contact at all from supermarkets. And we knew at that 98 00:04:43,950 --> 00:04:45,839 Simon Griffiths: moment that we had to pivot what we were thinking 99 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,179 Simon Griffiths: about in terms of how the business could be successful 100 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,570 Simon Griffiths: to instead of relying on supermarkets, to actually start selling 101 00:04:51,570 --> 00:04:55,080 Simon Griffiths: toilet paper online to people's households directly. And so Danny 102 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,510 Simon Griffiths: took a step back and thought about the entire product 103 00:04:57,510 --> 00:05:00,539 Simon Griffiths: lifecycle and he said, " What if we could make some 104 00:05:00,540 --> 00:05:03,268 Simon Griffiths: of these boring moments that exist in parts of the 105 00:05:03,270 --> 00:05:07,349 Simon Griffiths: product lifecycle, from thinking about purchasing to purchasing, to throwing 106 00:05:07,379 --> 00:05:09,930 Simon Griffiths: away the box or whatever it comes in, how can 107 00:05:09,930 --> 00:05:13,500 Simon Griffiths: we insert moments of joy into that experience?" And he said, " 108 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,710 Simon Griffiths: Well, people stack toilet paper rolls on top of each 109 00:05:16,710 --> 00:05:19,770 Simon Griffiths: other. What if we could design those rolls with fun 110 00:05:19,830 --> 00:05:23,099 Simon Griffiths: wrappers on them so that when they were stacked up, 111 00:05:23,100 --> 00:05:25,710 Simon Griffiths: they looked really fantastic, and if we could do it 112 00:05:25,710 --> 00:05:28,350 Simon Griffiths: so well that people would take this thing that used 113 00:05:28,350 --> 00:05:30,330 Simon Griffiths: to be stored at the back of their cupboard and 114 00:05:30,330 --> 00:05:33,330 Simon Griffiths: instead have it proudly on display in their households?" It was 115 00:05:33,330 --> 00:05:35,700 Simon Griffiths: one of those probably 50 ideas that we had on 116 00:05:35,700 --> 00:05:37,888 Simon Griffiths: how we could do things differently, but it was probably 117 00:05:37,889 --> 00:05:39,690 Simon Griffiths: the one that took off. And so now, all of 118 00:05:40,049 --> 00:05:43,589 Simon Griffiths: our products have five different wrapper designs, including a red 119 00:05:43,589 --> 00:05:45,900 Simon Griffiths: emergency roll that sits in the bottom of every box 120 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:47,850 Simon Griffiths: so you know when you're about to run out and, 121 00:05:47,850 --> 00:05:51,240 Simon Griffiths: therefore, should reorder. And as a result of that, we 122 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,750 Simon Griffiths: see our products being shared on social media and sent 123 00:05:54,750 --> 00:05:57,779 Simon Griffiths: to friends as photos of moments that our customers really 124 00:05:57,779 --> 00:05:59,878 Simon Griffiths: care about and want to share with someone else. So, it's 125 00:05:59,879 --> 00:06:01,830 Simon Griffiths: been a core part of who we are as a 126 00:06:01,830 --> 00:06:05,219 Simon Griffiths: business, but probably the first time that design and toilet 127 00:06:05,220 --> 00:06:06,660 Simon Griffiths: paper was used in the same sentence. 128 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,370 Jennifer Duke: I absolutely love the Marie Kondo's spark joying of the toilet paper 129 00:06:11,370 --> 00:06:12,150 Jennifer Duke: process. That's- 130 00:06:13,410 --> 00:06:16,169 Simon Griffiths: Was pre- Marie Kondo. Hats after Danny. It was pre- 131 00:06:16,170 --> 00:06:16,710 Simon Griffiths: Marie Kondo. 132 00:06:19,589 --> 00:06:21,480 Jennifer Duke: One of the things obviously that you do is give 133 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,360 Jennifer Duke: half your profits to these aligned causes. I'm sure that 134 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,520 Jennifer Duke: sparks a lot of joy for plenty of your customers 135 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,130 Jennifer Duke: as well. How do you measure the impact of what 136 00:06:29,130 --> 00:06:29,610 Jennifer Duke: you're doing? 137 00:06:30,540 --> 00:06:34,349 Simon Griffiths: Yeah, measuring impact, it's a really good question. It's unfortunately 138 00:06:34,350 --> 00:06:36,389 Simon Griffiths: a really hard thing to do, and it's because of 139 00:06:36,389 --> 00:06:38,789 Simon Griffiths: the way that we give that we believe is truly 140 00:06:38,790 --> 00:06:41,549 Simon Griffiths: the most impactful way to give. And so what we 141 00:06:41,550 --> 00:06:45,210 Simon Griffiths: do is called unrestricted funding where, if an organization is 142 00:06:45,210 --> 00:06:48,509 Simon Griffiths: being funded by us, we're saying, " Look, we know a 143 00:06:48,509 --> 00:06:50,820 Simon Griffiths: lot about toilets but a hell of a lot more 144 00:06:50,820 --> 00:06:53,159 Simon Griffiths: than we do, so we're going to give you this 145 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,169 Simon Griffiths: money and we're not going to tell you how it 146 00:06:55,170 --> 00:06:57,420 Simon Griffiths: has to be spent because we believe that you will 147 00:06:57,420 --> 00:07:00,120 Simon Griffiths: be a better allocator of capital than what we can 148 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:01,860 Simon Griffiths: be in order to make sure that every dollar has 149 00:07:01,860 --> 00:07:04,589 Simon Griffiths: the most impact that it possibly can." But the challenge 150 00:07:04,589 --> 00:07:07,559 Simon Griffiths: with that is that we're not saying, " Hey, our money 151 00:07:07,559 --> 00:07:09,989 Simon Griffiths: can only be used to build that toilet block in 152 00:07:09,990 --> 00:07:12,930 Simon Griffiths: that school which serves 1, 000 students," which would make 153 00:07:12,930 --> 00:07:15,180 Simon Griffiths: it much, much easier to keep track of the impact 154 00:07:15,180 --> 00:07:19,290 Simon Griffiths: that we generate. And so I think that what we've decided the 155 00:07:19,290 --> 00:07:20,849 Simon Griffiths: best thing for us to do is to look at 156 00:07:21,150 --> 00:07:23,880 Simon Griffiths: how much money we're donating in total, and that's one 157 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:25,980 Simon Griffiths: of the core metrics that we track. But then we 158 00:07:25,980 --> 00:07:28,920 Simon Griffiths: also look at the impact that each individual organization is 159 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,130 Simon Griffiths: having in total and what percentage of our budget we're 160 00:07:32,130 --> 00:07:34,110 Simon Griffiths: making up. And so that starts to allow us to 161 00:07:34,110 --> 00:07:37,140 Simon Griffiths: narrow down on what our total impact could look like. 162 00:07:37,470 --> 00:07:41,309 Simon Griffiths: But you can't specifically say, " We've served this many people," 163 00:07:41,309 --> 00:07:43,019 Simon Griffiths: which is something we'd love to be able to do, 164 00:07:43,020 --> 00:07:46,379 Simon Griffiths: but very, very challenging unless you give what's called restricted 165 00:07:46,379 --> 00:07:50,250 Simon Griffiths: funding, which ultimately hamstrings the organization you're giving money to. 166 00:07:50,700 --> 00:07:52,860 Jennifer Duke: Stay with me, Simon. We'll be back in a minute. 167 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,980 Jennifer Duke: I'm speaking to Simon Griffiths, co- founder and CEO of 168 00:08:01,980 --> 00:08:05,069 Jennifer Duke: Who Gives A Crap. I was curious to ask around 169 00:08:05,609 --> 00:08:09,120 Jennifer Duke: COVID and, clearly, toilet paper was a really big deal 170 00:08:09,180 --> 00:08:11,610 Jennifer Duke: during that time. I believe Who Gives A Crap made 171 00:08:11,610 --> 00:08:14,280 Jennifer Duke: a lot of donations through the COVID period and also 172 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,259 Jennifer Duke: got a lot more profit from the panic buying that 173 00:08:16,260 --> 00:08:18,570 Jennifer Duke: was going on. I was eager for you to talk 174 00:08:18,570 --> 00:08:20,969 Jennifer Duke: to me about what happened through that time and what 175 00:08:20,969 --> 00:08:23,400 Jennifer Duke: your lesson is for businesses who want to maintain their 176 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,410 Jennifer Duke: social license during a time of crisis. 177 00:08:26,130 --> 00:08:29,190 Simon Griffiths: Yeah, I think you made the link between profits and 178 00:08:29,190 --> 00:08:31,470 Simon Griffiths: donations there for us, and those two are really the 179 00:08:31,470 --> 00:08:33,900 Simon Griffiths: same thing because we give away half of our profits 180 00:08:33,900 --> 00:08:36,780 Simon Griffiths: each year, and so we really think about donations and 181 00:08:36,780 --> 00:08:38,879 Simon Griffiths: that's the metric that we talk about internally in our 182 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,400 Simon Griffiths: business. But as you alluded to, I think we were 183 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,540 Simon Griffiths: having quite a strong year financially coming up to February 184 00:08:45,540 --> 00:08:48,179 Simon Griffiths: of 2020, and then no one could have predicted what 185 00:08:48,179 --> 00:08:51,420 Simon Griffiths: happened from March through to the end of June. I 186 00:08:51,420 --> 00:08:53,489 Simon Griffiths: think in those first few days of March, we saw 187 00:08:53,490 --> 00:08:56,370 Simon Griffiths: our sales double on the first day of March, and 188 00:08:56,370 --> 00:08:58,410 Simon Griffiths: then they were up 5x a regular day on the 189 00:08:58,410 --> 00:09:00,749 Simon Griffiths: second day of March, 12x the day after that. And we were 190 00:09:00,869 --> 00:09:03,328 Simon Griffiths: going through a 30 to 40 times day of sales 191 00:09:03,660 --> 00:09:05,550 Simon Griffiths: on the 4th of March before we had to turn 192 00:09:05,550 --> 00:09:07,950 Simon Griffiths: our site to sold out to hold onto product in 193 00:09:07,950 --> 00:09:10,620 Simon Griffiths: our warehouses for our subscribers and our business customers who 194 00:09:10,620 --> 00:09:12,300 Simon Griffiths: we want to make sure would never run out of 195 00:09:12,300 --> 00:09:16,169 Simon Griffiths: toilet paper again. And so after we'd had this crazy 196 00:09:16,170 --> 00:09:19,110 Simon Griffiths: exponential growth doing more than a month of sales in 197 00:09:19,110 --> 00:09:21,569 Simon Griffiths: a day, we turned on a wait list on our 198 00:09:21,570 --> 00:09:24,420 Simon Griffiths: sold out product page, allowing people to sign up to 199 00:09:24,420 --> 00:09:26,550 Simon Griffiths: find out when we'd be back in stock. And we 200 00:09:26,550 --> 00:09:28,708 Simon Griffiths: expected a few thousand people would sign up for that, 201 00:09:28,710 --> 00:09:30,599 Simon Griffiths: but we ended up with more than half a million 202 00:09:30,599 --> 00:09:32,820 Simon Griffiths: people on that waiting list all around the world- 203 00:09:33,210 --> 00:09:33,211 Jennifer Duke: Wow. 204 00:09:33,211 --> 00:09:36,328 Simon Griffiths: ... which was pretty crazy and a pretty challenging problem 205 00:09:36,330 --> 00:09:39,000 Simon Griffiths: to figure out how to solve. But once our team 206 00:09:39,809 --> 00:09:42,120 Simon Griffiths: figured out that what we needed to do was pack 207 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,370 Simon Griffiths: our product into smaller packs so we could ship out 208 00:09:44,370 --> 00:09:48,059 Simon Griffiths: more orders, we hired and trained 25 freelancers to help 209 00:09:48,059 --> 00:09:51,599 Simon Griffiths: us triple our customer service capacity. And then we basically 210 00:09:51,599 --> 00:09:54,718 Simon Griffiths: took our warehouses and our couriers to their maximum limits 211 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,470 Simon Griffiths: before the wheels would literally fall off the trucks. We 212 00:09:58,470 --> 00:10:01,980 Simon Griffiths: ran what was this secret online toilet paper club, which 213 00:10:01,980 --> 00:10:04,949 Simon Griffiths: was a clone of our website that you could only access 214 00:10:04,950 --> 00:10:07,860 Simon Griffiths: if you're on our wait list, and we sold... Probably 215 00:10:07,860 --> 00:10:09,869 Simon Griffiths: the coolest club anywhere in the world in 2020, but 216 00:10:10,350 --> 00:10:12,900 Simon Griffiths: we sold toilet paper through that for about eight weeks 217 00:10:12,900 --> 00:10:15,240 Simon Griffiths: before we were able to officially come back in stock. 218 00:10:15,570 --> 00:10:18,660 Simon Griffiths: The end result of that was that coming up to 219 00:10:18,660 --> 00:10:21,328 Simon Griffiths: the end of financial year, we were able to make a $5. 220 00:10:21,330 --> 00:10:25,679 Simon Griffiths: 85 million donation, which was just this amazing moment for 221 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,590 Simon Griffiths: everyone that had worked incredibly hard through that period to 222 00:10:28,590 --> 00:10:31,770 Simon Griffiths: see a really direct correlation between the work that had 223 00:10:31,770 --> 00:10:34,230 Simon Griffiths: gone in and the impact or the donation that we 224 00:10:34,230 --> 00:10:36,929 Simon Griffiths: were able to make at the end of the financial year. So 225 00:10:36,929 --> 00:10:40,200 Simon Griffiths: just a kind of amazing experience that obviously came out 226 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,660 Simon Griffiths: of quite a tough time all around the world, but 227 00:10:42,750 --> 00:10:45,358 Simon Griffiths: something that I think we all look back on and 228 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,660 Simon Griffiths: do so, remembering how exhilarating it was, but also how 229 00:10:48,690 --> 00:10:51,059 Simon Griffiths: exhausted everyone was working through that at the same time. 230 00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:54,900 Jennifer Duke: That's definitely something to be very proud of. How has the 231 00:10:54,900 --> 00:10:57,540 Jennifer Duke: growth been since then, and have you managed to hold 232 00:10:57,540 --> 00:10:59,070 Jennifer Duke: onto some of those COVID customers? 233 00:10:59,730 --> 00:11:02,460 Simon Griffiths: Yeah, our customer retention from that group of customers was 234 00:11:02,460 --> 00:11:06,660 Simon Griffiths: actually very, very strong. Our NPS is usually in the 235 00:11:06,660 --> 00:11:08,400 Simon Griffiths: 80s, and I think it actually shot up to the 236 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,429 Simon Griffiths: 90s through that period, which was a testament to the 237 00:11:11,429 --> 00:11:15,870 Simon Griffiths: work that the team did to help manage where people 238 00:11:15,870 --> 00:11:17,999 Simon Griffiths: were at in the waiting list process and keep them 239 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,520 Simon Griffiths: informed about what we were doing and how we were 240 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,510 Simon Griffiths: working through that list, but incredibly strong cohort through that. 241 00:11:24,660 --> 00:11:27,300 Simon Griffiths: I think, as you said before, " What were the key 242 00:11:27,300 --> 00:11:29,819 Simon Griffiths: lessons that emerged from that?", I think really it was 243 00:11:29,820 --> 00:11:35,099 Simon Griffiths: around communication with customers and we realized that the state 244 00:11:35,099 --> 00:11:37,199 Simon Griffiths: of mind of customers at that moment in time was 245 00:11:37,530 --> 00:11:40,379 Simon Griffiths: very different to what had ever been before. So we 246 00:11:40,379 --> 00:11:43,980 Simon Griffiths: really took it upon ourselves to communicate often and with 247 00:11:43,980 --> 00:11:47,550 Simon Griffiths: a high quality of information to keep people informed. One 248 00:11:47,550 --> 00:11:49,500 Simon Griffiths: of the other things that we did was we could 249 00:11:49,500 --> 00:11:51,630 Simon Griffiths: see which customers were on that wait- list who were 250 00:11:51,630 --> 00:11:54,150 Simon Griffiths: existing customers, and we moved them through the wait- list 251 00:11:54,150 --> 00:11:57,150 Simon Griffiths: faster than new customers. So, we were able to keep 252 00:11:57,150 --> 00:12:00,660 Simon Griffiths: our existing customers engaged through that period and reward them 253 00:12:00,660 --> 00:12:03,059 Simon Griffiths: for having shopped with us and being a part of 254 00:12:03,059 --> 00:12:06,208 Simon Griffiths: our community before. I think all of that resulted in a 255 00:12:06,210 --> 00:12:09,389 Simon Griffiths: pretty amazing customer experience, which was what saw our NPS 256 00:12:09,389 --> 00:12:10,890 Simon Griffiths: shoot up so high through that period. 257 00:12:11,940 --> 00:12:15,120 Jennifer Duke: It's clearly been a very big journey for you all. 258 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,789 Jennifer Duke: I'm eager to know, and I'm sure that our listeners 259 00:12:17,789 --> 00:12:20,280 Jennifer Duke: are eager to know as well, what's next for Who 260 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,140 Jennifer Duke: Gives A Crap. Can you tell me a bit about 261 00:12:22,140 --> 00:12:23,520 Jennifer Duke: the Good Time range of products? 262 00:12:23,850 --> 00:12:27,000 Simon Griffiths: Yeah, so we launched Good Time just under a year 263 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,400 Simon Griffiths: ago, which is our sister brand, and it's a plastic- 264 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,719 Simon Griffiths: free hair and body care range. The realization that we 265 00:12:33,719 --> 00:12:36,179 Simon Griffiths: had was that when we talked to our customers and 266 00:12:36,179 --> 00:12:38,880 Simon Griffiths: asked them how we could help them in their household, 267 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,700 Simon Griffiths: they said, " We love you and we trust that you 268 00:12:41,700 --> 00:12:44,790 Simon Griffiths: make great quality products. Can you solve some of the 269 00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:47,010 Simon Griffiths: other problems that we have around the house?" And one 270 00:12:47,010 --> 00:12:49,500 Simon Griffiths: of the things that came up was plastic- free hair 271 00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:51,120 Simon Griffiths: and body. A lot of our customers were trying to 272 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,580 Simon Griffiths: find good solutions for this, but we thought that the 273 00:12:53,580 --> 00:12:58,410 Simon Griffiths: Who Gives A Crap brand couldn't stretch outside of household 274 00:12:58,710 --> 00:13:03,270 Simon Griffiths: cleaning and more kitchen and bathroom based products rather than 275 00:13:03,270 --> 00:13:05,728 Simon Griffiths: going into the shower. And so we said, " If we're 276 00:13:05,730 --> 00:13:07,139 Simon Griffiths: going to do this, we probably need to create a 277 00:13:07,139 --> 00:13:09,420 Simon Griffiths: sister brand who shares a lot of the DNA of 278 00:13:09,420 --> 00:13:12,809 Simon Griffiths: Who Gives A Crap, also believes in philanthropy and donates 279 00:13:12,809 --> 00:13:16,020 Simon Griffiths: 50% of profits, but while Who Gives A Crap might 280 00:13:16,020 --> 00:13:19,140 Simon Griffiths: be the comedian, Good Time is the sister who's an 281 00:13:19,140 --> 00:13:22,650 Simon Griffiths: architect who's a bit more into design and photography and 282 00:13:22,650 --> 00:13:25,560 Simon Griffiths: a bit more sophisticated as opposed to a bit more 283 00:13:25,770 --> 00:13:27,990 Simon Griffiths: slap dash maybe," is how we would think about Who 284 00:13:28,049 --> 00:13:30,300 Simon Griffiths: Gives A Crap. And so we launched that about a 285 00:13:30,330 --> 00:13:32,640 Simon Griffiths: year ago and it's been amazing seeing it in our 286 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,460 Simon Griffiths: customer's homes and helping to solve a problem that our 287 00:13:35,460 --> 00:13:39,360 Simon Griffiths: customers have taken really seriously. And so, for us, gets 288 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,150 Simon Griffiths: us excited to think about what other products we might 289 00:13:42,150 --> 00:13:43,980 Simon Griffiths: be able to bring into the range and so that's something 290 00:13:43,980 --> 00:13:46,409 Simon Griffiths: that we're working on now as we think about what 291 00:13:46,410 --> 00:13:50,608 Simon Griffiths: the next 12 to 24 months look like and whether that's under 292 00:13:50,610 --> 00:13:52,679 Simon Griffiths: the Who Gives A Crap brand, under the Good Time 293 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,439 Simon Griffiths: brand or potentially under a third or fourth brand as well. 294 00:13:56,340 --> 00:13:59,190 Jennifer Duke: Definitely. And I'm very pleased that there are a vegan 295 00:13:59,190 --> 00:14:01,200 Jennifer Duke: range of products as well. I did see that on 296 00:14:01,620 --> 00:14:04,469 Jennifer Duke: the website and I think that it's obviously an increasing 297 00:14:04,469 --> 00:14:07,890 Jennifer Duke: trend across Australia at the moment. I was curious to 298 00:14:07,890 --> 00:14:10,470 Jennifer Duke: know about the competitors popping up in this space and 299 00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:13,350 Jennifer Duke: how you view that competitive environment and whether or not 300 00:14:13,350 --> 00:14:15,900 Jennifer Duke: you're seeing other people going the way that you are 301 00:14:15,900 --> 00:14:18,210 Jennifer Duke: in terms of the philanthropic element. 302 00:14:19,590 --> 00:14:22,379 Simon Griffiths: We don't look at what competitors do too much, to 303 00:14:22,379 --> 00:14:25,290 Simon Griffiths: be honest. We're very focused on what our vision is 304 00:14:25,290 --> 00:14:27,300 Simon Griffiths: and we see the world in a different way to, 305 00:14:27,300 --> 00:14:30,239 Simon Griffiths: I think, what most people do. We'd love to see 306 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,180 Simon Griffiths: a version of the world where every product gives back, 307 00:14:33,300 --> 00:14:37,740 Simon Griffiths: whether that's 50% of profits or something else, but if 308 00:14:37,740 --> 00:14:41,190 Simon Griffiths: you think about how many products you buy every single 309 00:14:41,190 --> 00:14:43,890 Simon Griffiths: day or use every single day that don't have that 310 00:14:43,890 --> 00:14:46,440 Simon Griffiths: give back element built into them, if we could start 311 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,800 Simon Griffiths: to really shift what products are out there and what 312 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,619 Simon Griffiths: they're doing in terms of social and environmental impact so 313 00:14:52,620 --> 00:14:54,569 Simon Griffiths: that every single product gave back in one way or 314 00:14:54,570 --> 00:14:59,010 Simon Griffiths: another, the impact from that would be absolutely astronomical. So 315 00:14:59,010 --> 00:15:01,710 Simon Griffiths: when we see competitors or not just competitors but other 316 00:15:01,710 --> 00:15:05,070 Simon Griffiths: brands that are coming along and have that give back 317 00:15:05,070 --> 00:15:08,549 Simon Griffiths: model built in, for us, that's an incredibly exciting thing 318 00:15:08,550 --> 00:15:11,309 Simon Griffiths: to see because I think that we've been able to 319 00:15:11,309 --> 00:15:15,059 Simon Griffiths: show that it is possible to create demand by talking 320 00:15:15,059 --> 00:15:18,630 Simon Griffiths: about what you will do with profits. So this is 321 00:15:18,630 --> 00:15:21,660 Simon Griffiths: now becoming a mass consumer trend where consumers are thinking 322 00:15:21,660 --> 00:15:25,170 Simon Griffiths: carefully about who they're buying products from because they want 323 00:15:25,170 --> 00:15:27,809 Simon Griffiths: to understand if their values aligned or not. And so 324 00:15:27,809 --> 00:15:30,389 Simon Griffiths: we're hoping that this is going to be something that 325 00:15:30,570 --> 00:15:33,360 Simon Griffiths: is a really mega- trend over the next 10 to 326 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,850 Simon Griffiths: 15 years in the same way that we've seen sustainability 327 00:15:35,850 --> 00:15:38,490 Simon Griffiths: be a mega- trend in the last decade behind us. 328 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,240 Jennifer Duke: Simon, that was wonderful. Thank you so much for talking 329 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:43,080 Jennifer Duke: to Fear and Greed. 330 00:15:43,710 --> 00:15:45,510 Simon Griffiths: Yeah, thank you for having me. It's been fantastic. 331 00:15:45,990 --> 00:15:48,840 Jennifer Duke: That was Simon Griffiths, co- founder and CEO of Who 332 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,389 Jennifer Duke: Gives A Crap. This is The Fear and Greed Business 333 00:15:51,389 --> 00:15:54,359 Jennifer Duke: Interview. Join us every morning for the full episode of 334 00:15:54,359 --> 00:15:58,140 Jennifer Duke: Fear and Greed, Australia's best business podcast. I'm Jennifer Duke, 335 00:15:58,170 --> 00:16:01,170 Jennifer Duke: economics correspondent for Capital Brief and filling in for Sean 336 00:16:01,170 --> 00:16:02,640 Jennifer Duke: Aylmer. Have a great day.