1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:05,359 Speaker 1: Mine over one hundred dark day in the AFL today Clint. 2 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 2: Potentially yes Jay's extraordinary allegations aired in Federal Parliament and 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 2: Cambridge just yesterday. Basically this will emerge last night on 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 2: the Herald Sun off the books. Drug tests or allegations 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 2: of authorized by the league to make sure that players 6 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: evade detection on match day. It has many different layers. 7 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 2: This is all detailed by Independent MP Andrew Wilkie last 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 2: night in Canberra. 9 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 3: If there are no illegal drugs in the player's system, 10 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 3: they are free to play, and if there are drugs 11 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 3: in their system, the player is often asked to take 12 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 3: an injury, they advised to lie about their condition. This 13 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 3: isn't just a Melbourne problem, it's an AFL problem with 14 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,959 Speaker 3: multiple players coming to Melbourne from other teams with pre 15 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 3: existing cocaine dependencies, more than suggesting that drug testing workarounds 16 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 3: are in fact commonplace elsewhere in the AFL. 17 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 4: Big, big, sorry because it is a bit confusing, But 18 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 4: is the basis of it that they're saying that players 19 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 4: were going and getting drug tests outside of the official 20 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 4: drug testers to make sure that if they did get 21 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 4: drug tested that they'd be cleaned and then to fake 22 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 4: an injury if they tested positive behavior on the work. 23 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: That's right. 24 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 4: There's obviously some sort of drug culture going on in 25 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 4: the AFIL. Remember the other day we had Eddie maguire 26 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:23,639 Speaker 4: was on the show and Clint You asked him point blank, 27 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 4: what do you think will be the biggest story of 28 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 4: twenty twenty four. 29 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 2: And this was his response, twenty twenty four. You're a 30 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 2: newsbreaker on futy classified. What's the headline we will see 31 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:34,559 Speaker 2: this year? 32 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 5: Drugs? 33 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 2: You reckon. 34 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 5: There's no one in football who's happy with the drug code, 35 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 5: the players and the Players Association certainly not. The clubs 36 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 5: are not the AFL, and we have to get to 37 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 5: a position where the drug code is completely overhauled. The 38 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 5: AFL are worrying now that training under the influence of 39 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 5: blister drugs during the week is going to end the 40 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 5: disaster at some stage. Wow, So let's be realistic about it. 41 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 5: We know that drugs are so issue, so that doesn't 42 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 5: mean we just turn their back to them. So we 43 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 5: have to decide where the drug code goes. Let's just 44 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 5: all be big boys and girls and say, right, okay, 45 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 5: here's what we want for our game. Here's the fastest 46 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 5: way there let's not necessarily flatulate people who transgress. Let's 47 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 5: help them and rehabilitate, but also have a bit of 48 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 5: stick there to just say that this is not something 49 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 5: we're going to just copy every week. 50 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 2: Sports medicine specialist and media commentator, also recent author of 51 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 2: The Healthy one hundred, Doctor Peter Larkins join us, Pete. 52 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 2: Good morning, thanks for your time. How serious is this? 53 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 6: Oh, it's a massive story, Good morning folks. Just a 54 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 6: little bit of backstory. There are two drug existing systems 55 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 6: in the AFL for the player's undergo testing. Once the 56 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 6: famous world you know Warder code, which is the match 57 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 6: day and that's the performance enhancing make sure that you're 58 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,679 Speaker 6: not taking advantage over another player to get a kick 59 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 6: and win a match, etc. And then the ten years 60 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 6: plus controversial illicit drug testing code, which was the three 61 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 6: Strikes it was known originally now it's Cruse strikes where 62 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 6: players are tested by an independent drug testing agency arranged 63 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 6: by the AFL as a medical model to really look 64 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 6: at illicit drug use so rather than performance drug use. 65 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 6: And so that was a confidential system where the players 66 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 6: were tested during the week and sometimes on matchday as well, 67 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 6: and if they test positive on matchday it goes to 68 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 6: a ward or four year suspension potentially. But during the 69 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 6: week it was the silent confidential code where if the 70 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 6: player tested, they would get medical intervention. That's why it 71 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 6: was called a medical model, right, And it was designed 72 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 6: to pick up ecstasy, cocaine and fetamines you know, MMBA, 73 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 6: all those drugs for players. And as Eddie said, it's 74 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 6: in society, and of course it's in the age group 75 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 6: of the twenty to thirty eight group in AFL players, 76 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 6: the eight hundred. 77 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 4: Of them, and so stop there's so there's this story 78 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 4: that a lot of people in the AFL needed this, 79 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 4: This illicit drug testing was happening behind the scene. Is 80 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 4: it's a suggestion that lot of a lot of people 81 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 4: in the AFL knew about it. Do you think that's 82 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 4: the case? 83 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 6: Absolutely, Lauren, Absolutely, I mean this was this was a 84 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 6: system to deliberately put in place to assist players to 85 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 6: get off the system if they were caught up in 86 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 6: societal drug use. And so the club doctor and the 87 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 6: AFL's medical director were the only two people aware of 88 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 6: this system when a player tested positive and so and 89 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 6: a player could self report. So this is how this 90 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 6: story is unfolded. A player who was worried they were 91 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 6: going to test positive could go to me as the 92 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 6: club doctor and say, oh, gee, look I've been at 93 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 6: a big party feed on Thursday night and you know 94 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 6: I might have taken things. You know what am I 95 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 6: going to do? So as your doctor, I'm trying to 96 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 6: help you get off the drug. So then I could 97 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 6: also see if you were tested. But then the real 98 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 6: where it really got messy was then the club doctor 99 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 6: was allowed to prevent the player from playing by coming up. 100 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 6: You know, they'd be managed, or they pull a hamstringer trainer. 101 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: It's HLD, can you doctor start? 102 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 4: Is this to protect the players or is it to 103 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 4: protect the AFL's reputation both? Probably? 104 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 6: Yeah, Well that's something I think the Court of Public 105 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 6: Appeal will unfold to determine that. I mean, the model, 106 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 6: which I've never agreed with properly, was an interventional model 107 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 6: to stop players who if you could detect them if 108 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 6: they are on ilicit drugs, get them into a psychological 109 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 6: counseling program, a drug rehabilitation program. Sometimes they would they'd 110 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 6: be in it for four to six weeks and disappear 111 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 6: with a mysterious The. 112 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: Point Andrew Wilkie made in Cambridge just yesterday. Was this 113 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 2: via the alleged testimony of the former Melbourne doctor. Was 114 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 2: it's not just a Melbourne problem, It's not just a 115 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 2: Victoria problem. This is an AFL wide problem. Is that 116 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 2: your understanding that happens in clubs right the way around Australia. 117 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:51,799 Speaker 6: Well, that's what I was meaning to say. Every club 118 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 6: doctor had that arrangement with the AFL, all eighteen clubs. 119 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, well we'll leave it there. Dr Peter Larkins, thanks 120 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: how much your time this morning? 121 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 6: Mate? 122 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: Jeez, can I play Devil's advocate for a second. If 123 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: it isn't performance enhancing drugs, if these guys want to 124 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: go out and treat their bodies like amusement parks, and 125 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: you know, like, is it a big thing if it's affecting, 126 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: if it's if it's not affecting the game, and it's 127 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: not a performance enhancing drug, and if they want to 128 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: be idiots and take drugs. 129 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 4: And it is an industry full of twenty something your 130 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,239 Speaker 4: lads and women as well, don't get. 131 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: Let's be realistic. 132 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 4: So there's going to be people that make mistakes. There's 133 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 4: going to be people that slip up and should they 134 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 4: be able to go to their club and go, hey, 135 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 4: I've stuffed up, Like how do I fix this? And 136 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 4: if what if? What Dr Peter Larkins is saying is 137 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 4: that they actually take these players under their wings, they 138 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 4: take them off and say right, well you're not playing 139 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 4: and let's put you in a program to help you 140 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 4: come out the other side. That's very different. If it's 141 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 4: let's just try and protect the reputation of the club 142 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 4: and bury it two very different things. So whether or not, 143 00:06:59,160 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 4: I mean. 144 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: I think it's to protect the reputation, you know. 145 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 4: What, it's interesting because I wonder there would be a 146 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 4: part of wanting to protect the reputation of the club, 147 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 4: But club doctors care very much about their players as well, 148 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 4: and their wellbeing and their welfare, and I imagine there 149 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 4: would be a part of it that is also to 150 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 4: protect those individual players. 151 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 2: As Doc Clarkins said, just then if all eighteen club 152 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 2: doctors knew or know about this system which operates there 153 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 2: are some questions that need to be answered by af 154 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 2: l HQ today. 155 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: Heads need to roll. 156 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 4: Do you think it's the right way to do it? 157 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 5: Clint? 158 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 4: Do you think that players should be able to talk 159 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 4: to their club doctor privately about something. 160 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 2: And then ultimately medical doctors at the end of the day. 161 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 4: Jason Lauren wake up feeling good on number one hundred 162 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 2: On Socials.