1 00:00:03,540 --> 00:00:06,600 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:06,780 --> 00:00:09,270 Sean Aylmer: Last week, the global tech giant Apple said it was 3 00:00:09,270 --> 00:00:12,720 Sean Aylmer: entering the payment instalments business through Apple Pay, partnering with 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,050 Sean Aylmer: Goldman Sachs. At the same time, PayPal revealed its offering 5 00:00:16,050 --> 00:00:18,780 Sean Aylmer: in Australia as well. And next month, Commonwealth Bank, which 6 00:00:18,780 --> 00:00:21,840 Sean Aylmer: owns a stake in buy now, pay later group Klarna, is due 7 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:26,100 Sean Aylmer: to launch StepPay another instalment product. And with local market leaders, 8 00:00:26,100 --> 00:00:30,270 Sean Aylmer: Afterpay and Zip Co also continuing their expansion overseas, it's safe to say 9 00:00:30,270 --> 00:00:34,320 Sean Aylmer: the sector is booming. It's also becoming increasingly crowded. But 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,410 Sean Aylmer: one of the earliest players in Australia, even before Afterpay came 11 00:00:37,409 --> 00:00:42,120 Sean Aylmer: along was Openpay, which was founded in 2013. Openpay targets 12 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,360 Sean Aylmer: a more mature demographic than many of its competitors, and 13 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,610 Sean Aylmer: that also means their purchases are typically of higher value. 14 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,690 Sean Aylmer: It's an ASX listed company and in the last couple 15 00:00:51,690 --> 00:00:54,330 Sean Aylmer: of years has expanded to the United Kingdom and now 16 00:00:54,330 --> 00:00:58,020 Sean Aylmer: the United States. Michael Eidel is the Global CEO and 17 00:00:58,020 --> 00:01:01,140 Sean Aylmer: Managing Director of Openpay, having joined the company from the 18 00:01:01,140 --> 00:01:04,510 Sean Aylmer: Commonwealth Bank where he was Executive General Manager. Michael, welcome 19 00:01:04,510 --> 00:01:05,220 Sean Aylmer: to Fear and Greed. 20 00:01:05,459 --> 00:01:06,899 Michael Eidel: Thank you very much for having me. Good morning. 21 00:01:07,290 --> 00:01:09,120 Sean Aylmer: You're in a very busy market, Michael. 22 00:01:09,450 --> 00:01:11,550 Michael Eidel: I think you're spot on with your introduction. It's a 23 00:01:11,550 --> 00:01:15,330 Michael Eidel: very strongly booming but also crowded market. I think we 24 00:01:15,330 --> 00:01:19,440 Michael Eidel: have, as you also outlined very beautifully, found our niche, our position 25 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:21,870 Michael Eidel: where we can excel and lead the market, which is 26 00:01:21,870 --> 00:01:25,500 Michael Eidel: really where we can offer our longer, larger and customised 27 00:01:25,500 --> 00:01:32,009 Michael Eidel: instalment plans into industries and verticals like health care, home improvement, automotive, 28 00:01:32,250 --> 00:01:36,569 Michael Eidel: education and sporting memberships and bigger ticket retail, where our longer, 29 00:01:36,569 --> 00:01:39,000 Michael Eidel: larger plans can really make a true difference. And we can 30 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:43,230 Michael Eidel: own these sectors and provide our older audience, our finance 31 00:01:43,250 --> 00:01:46,830 Michael Eidel: savvy audience, as you say, a smart budgeting tool to 32 00:01:46,830 --> 00:01:48,460 Michael Eidel: manage their budgets in the right way. 33 00:01:48,690 --> 00:01:51,630 Sean Aylmer: So all these different players, Openpay has done a great 34 00:01:51,630 --> 00:01:55,440 Sean Aylmer: job in finding a niche and that's probably understating it somewhat but, 35 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,500 Sean Aylmer: you know, finding your audience value, is it that all 36 00:01:58,500 --> 00:02:01,200 Sean Aylmer: the other players, be it from sort of buy now, 37 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,010 Sean Aylmer: pay later or instalment payment players will have to find 38 00:02:05,010 --> 00:02:07,110 Sean Aylmer: their own niche? Or is the market big enough for 39 00:02:07,110 --> 00:02:08,040 Sean Aylmer: everyone to compete? 40 00:02:08,620 --> 00:02:11,520 Michael Eidel: Look, I think there's two distinct value propositions within what 41 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:15,930 Michael Eidel: is called buy now, pay later. The one which is probably the very 42 00:02:15,930 --> 00:02:21,120 Michael Eidel: popular one for younger people in fast moving retail fashion accessories, 43 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,810 Michael Eidel: which is a pay in four. That's typically what we know from Afterpay, 44 00:02:25,500 --> 00:02:29,700 Michael Eidel: from Laybuy and Sezzle an also listed company in the US, 45 00:02:29,850 --> 00:02:33,780 Michael Eidel: which is typically two month plans with four fortnightly instalments, 46 00:02:33,780 --> 00:02:37,920 Michael Eidel: which is perfectly suitable for these lower value purchases like 47 00:02:38,190 --> 00:02:41,220 Michael Eidel: t-shirts and tennis shoes and the like. That's one. The 48 00:02:41,220 --> 00:02:44,820 Michael Eidel: other one where we focus on is more really a digital consumer 49 00:02:44,820 --> 00:02:50,270 Michael Eidel: lending product. Similarly or equally smooth and seamless for the customer, 50 00:02:50,610 --> 00:02:53,550 Michael Eidel: can happen at the point of sale in milliseconds to 51 00:02:53,550 --> 00:02:57,120 Michael Eidel: get an approval for a larger value plan, but really 52 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,050 Michael Eidel: more for areas of very well considered investment into people's 53 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:06,540 Michael Eidel: lifestyles like dental treatments, veterinary surgery for their families furry friends, 54 00:03:06,540 --> 00:03:11,820 Michael Eidel: car services, car repairs, kind of more higher value fashion, maybe 55 00:03:11,820 --> 00:03:14,730 Michael Eidel: something for the evening, but also then sport memberships and 56 00:03:14,730 --> 00:03:18,210 Michael Eidel: the like. So this is typically a much higher value 57 00:03:18,210 --> 00:03:21,660 Michael Eidel: investment in peoples lifestyles. I think that's the second dimension where 58 00:03:21,660 --> 00:03:24,690 Michael Eidel: we very, very strongly focus on. So I think going forward, 59 00:03:24,690 --> 00:03:28,500 Michael Eidel: we see more differentiation between the two. The ones growing very, 60 00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:31,680 Michael Eidel: very strongly, but to much lower margins, if you like, 61 00:03:32,100 --> 00:03:33,990 Michael Eidel: and the area where we focus on where we can 62 00:03:33,990 --> 00:03:36,930 Michael Eidel: get a fee from the customer and the merchant, which 63 00:03:36,930 --> 00:03:38,520 Michael Eidel: leads to very nice commercial terms. 64 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,690 Sean Aylmer: OK, so that's a very good distinction. The industry so far 65 00:03:42,690 --> 00:03:48,480 Sean Aylmer: has broadly avoided regulatory scrutiny. Does the fact that Apple 66 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,809 Sean Aylmer: is getting involved, Commonwealth Bank is getting involved, is that more 67 00:03:51,810 --> 00:03:56,070 Sean Aylmer: likely to put regulators perhaps on watch about what's happening 68 00:03:56,070 --> 00:03:58,230 Sean Aylmer: in the industry? Is that something you're concerned about? 69 00:03:58,830 --> 00:04:01,770 Michael Eidel: First of all, two questions. First of all, I'm not 70 00:04:01,770 --> 00:04:04,200 Michael Eidel: concerned and I will explain in a minute why. But 71 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,630 Michael Eidel: first of all, I think your first statement is right 72 00:04:07,260 --> 00:04:10,110 Michael Eidel: with these larger players now entering the space and again 73 00:04:10,110 --> 00:04:13,320 Michael Eidel: focusing very, very strongly on the pay in four. The short term 74 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:19,200 Michael Eidel: plans for more spontaneous transactional purchases will cause more concerns 75 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:23,250 Michael Eidel: with the regulators about financial hardship and affordability. So I 76 00:04:23,339 --> 00:04:27,510 Michael Eidel: think that's definitely contributing to the scrutiny of regulators across 77 00:04:27,510 --> 00:04:30,120 Michael Eidel: markets in Australia, in the UK and in the US 78 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,210 Michael Eidel: as well. On the other end, we are already credit 79 00:04:33,210 --> 00:04:35,850 Michael Eidel: licensed in Australia. We don't use it because we are 80 00:04:35,850 --> 00:04:38,310 Michael Eidel: not regulated under the National Credit Code, but we have 81 00:04:38,310 --> 00:04:41,490 Michael Eidel: a credit licence and we adhere to very high principles 82 00:04:41,490 --> 00:04:45,419 Michael Eidel: and standards of responsible lending already. In the UK, with 83 00:04:45,420 --> 00:04:48,900 Michael Eidel: the acquisition of Payment Assist, which we have announced very recently, 84 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,040 Michael Eidel: part of the deal is also obtaining the FCA (UK Financial Conduct Authority) credit 85 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,670 Michael Eidel: authorisation as part of the change of control application, which 86 00:04:56,670 --> 00:04:59,160 Michael Eidel: is with the FCA right now. So we will have 87 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:03,240 Michael Eidel: credit licenced product in the UK very soon as well. And 88 00:05:03,250 --> 00:05:05,349 Michael Eidel: in the US, where we have launched very recently and 89 00:05:05,350 --> 00:05:08,560 Michael Eidel: will provide our first plans into the market, we are also 90 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:10,840 Michael Eidel: working with the regulator to get the licence. So from 91 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,839 Michael Eidel: our perspective, this is not something to be worried about. 92 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,620 Michael Eidel: For us, being regulated and offer a licensed credit product 93 00:05:17,620 --> 00:05:19,870 Michael Eidel: is part of the strategy. And we want to be 94 00:05:19,870 --> 00:05:22,299 Michael Eidel: the responsible provider, the kind of the adult in the 95 00:05:22,300 --> 00:05:25,400 Michael Eidel: room when it comes to responsible lending by an operator. 96 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,170 Sean Aylmer: OK, so, I mean, certainly if you have those credit certifications, 97 00:05:29,380 --> 00:05:32,050 Sean Aylmer: you are probably in front of a lot of your competitors, really? 98 00:05:32,350 --> 00:05:34,480 Michael Eidel: I think that's exactly right. And it takes quite a 99 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,830 Michael Eidel: bit to embed the kind of affordability checks, etc. in 100 00:05:38,830 --> 00:05:42,070 Michael Eidel: your technology. We are heavy users of credit scores. This 101 00:05:42,070 --> 00:05:44,710 Michael Eidel: is what we get told from our credit bureau partners 102 00:05:45,070 --> 00:05:47,170 Michael Eidel: all the time. And we do for all higher value 103 00:05:47,170 --> 00:05:50,860 Michael Eidel: plans a credit check in kind of near real time. 104 00:05:50,860 --> 00:05:54,880 Michael Eidel: But we already are very, very conscious about topics like 105 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:59,110 Michael Eidel: affordability and financial hardship. And do, I think, a good job 106 00:05:59,110 --> 00:06:01,850 Michael Eidel: in avoiding these issues for our customers. 107 00:06:02,230 --> 00:06:04,260 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Mike, and we'll be back in a minute. 108 00:06:09,110 --> 00:06:12,320 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Michael Eidel, CEO of Openpay. 109 00:06:12,860 --> 00:06:16,240 Sean Aylmer: So Openpay has an older demographic. A couple of things there. 110 00:06:16,730 --> 00:06:20,630 Sean Aylmer: Your average value is higher? That's a question. Your credit score. 111 00:06:20,779 --> 00:06:23,510 Sean Aylmer: I'm interested in loan losses or it's not loan losses, but it's 112 00:06:23,510 --> 00:06:26,239 Sean Aylmer: sort of bad debts, I suppose. And then the other 113 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:30,050 Sean Aylmer: thing is just how important was educating people my age, 114 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,330 Sean Aylmer: how to use buy now as opposed to a 30 115 00:06:32,330 --> 00:06:32,750 Sean Aylmer: year old? 116 00:06:33,140 --> 00:06:37,099 Michael Eidel: Yeah, that's good questions. I'll start with the first. You're right. 117 00:06:37,100 --> 00:06:39,740 Michael Eidel: We service an older audience or we call them more 118 00:06:39,740 --> 00:06:43,640 Michael Eidel: finance savvy and mature. The median age of our customers 119 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,729 Michael Eidel: quite consistently across Australia and the UK is around thirty 120 00:06:46,730 --> 00:06:50,300 Michael Eidel: nine years. If you compare with providers who service a 121 00:06:50,300 --> 00:06:53,060 Michael Eidel: very young audience, their average or median age is maybe 122 00:06:53,060 --> 00:06:57,890 Michael Eidel: twenty five. Afterpay probably more 30, early 30s. So from that perspective, as 123 00:06:57,890 --> 00:07:00,260 Michael Eidel: I said from the very beginning, we are more a budgeting 124 00:07:00,260 --> 00:07:02,960 Michael Eidel: tool than a source of cheap credit for people who 125 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,350 Michael Eidel: want to be in control of their cash flows. Our 126 00:07:06,500 --> 00:07:10,160 Michael Eidel: ideal kind of loss rate from credit and fraud risk 127 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:14,330 Michael Eidel: combined in per cent of total transaction value, kind of the turnover, 128 00:07:14,810 --> 00:07:17,510 Michael Eidel: is around 2.5 per cent. This is kind of an 129 00:07:17,510 --> 00:07:21,660 Michael Eidel: optimum for us between having a good, healthy credit book 130 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,140 Michael Eidel: on the one hand side, but also good throughput at 131 00:07:24,140 --> 00:07:27,290 Michael Eidel: the merchant to have a good conversion rate to deliver 132 00:07:27,290 --> 00:07:30,050 Michael Eidel: on our promise to be kind of a bit of 133 00:07:30,050 --> 00:07:33,470 Michael Eidel: a marketing tool and a customer acquisition tool for them. 134 00:07:33,830 --> 00:07:35,990 Michael Eidel: And if you look at the portfolio of our business, 135 00:07:35,990 --> 00:07:39,050 Michael Eidel: we have only a minor part of our portfolio overall 136 00:07:39,050 --> 00:07:41,900 Michael Eidel: in the two month plan where most of our competitors 137 00:07:41,930 --> 00:07:44,930 Michael Eidel: play. It's less than 10 per cent. And this is typically in 138 00:07:44,930 --> 00:07:48,020 Michael Eidel: retail and mass retail. And there the loss rates are 139 00:07:48,020 --> 00:07:52,190 Michael Eidel: higher than in, for instance, car dealerships or dental clinics 140 00:07:52,190 --> 00:07:55,700 Michael Eidel: or sport clubs where the origination of a plan typically 141 00:07:55,700 --> 00:07:58,970 Michael Eidel: comes with a relationship. So, you know, your dentist probably 142 00:07:58,970 --> 00:08:01,580 Michael Eidel: have been knowing your dentist for 10 years and they 143 00:08:01,580 --> 00:08:04,850 Michael Eidel: know who they offer the Openpay plans for when the 144 00:08:05,030 --> 00:08:07,580 Michael Eidel: treatment is more expensive than you would have expected. So 145 00:08:07,820 --> 00:08:10,610 Michael Eidel: with this kind of social interaction also comes a very 146 00:08:10,610 --> 00:08:14,480 Michael Eidel: good profile from a credit and obviously also a fraud risk perspective, 147 00:08:14,780 --> 00:08:17,489 Michael Eidel: which helps us greatly to have a healthy credit book. 148 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,180 Sean Aylmer: So what's the average time of payment for Openpay? 149 00:08:20,750 --> 00:08:24,170 Michael Eidel: Yeah, we look at the different kind of verticals or industries. 150 00:08:24,170 --> 00:08:27,710 Michael Eidel: In retail, what I call bigger ticket retail, like Bunnings 151 00:08:27,710 --> 00:08:31,280 Michael Eidel: or Officeworks, some of our major retail clients in Australia 152 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,530 Michael Eidel: or The Hut Group in the UK, we are the 153 00:08:33,530 --> 00:08:36,290 Michael Eidel: only provider of three month plans that's kind of across 154 00:08:36,290 --> 00:08:39,290 Michael Eidel: the two countries between three and four to five month, 155 00:08:39,290 --> 00:08:43,340 Michael Eidel: typically in retail. In automotive and health care, think of 156 00:08:43,670 --> 00:08:47,960 Michael Eidel: a car service or dental treatment, kind of around 600 157 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,140 Michael Eidel: to 1200 dollars, and then the plan duration would be 158 00:08:51,140 --> 00:08:54,470 Michael Eidel: around maybe five to nine months. And home improvement, which 159 00:08:54,470 --> 00:08:57,290 Michael Eidel: is another important vertical for us, think of Bunnings kitchen 160 00:08:57,290 --> 00:09:01,969 Michael Eidel: for kitchens, other furniture, etc., the average plan value is 161 00:09:01,970 --> 00:09:06,260 Michael Eidel: around three thousand dollars and the typical plan duration, 12 162 00:09:06,260 --> 00:09:09,290 Michael Eidel: to 15 months. So we cover the broad range really from 163 00:09:09,650 --> 00:09:12,650 Michael Eidel: two or three months up to 24 months and from 164 00:09:12,650 --> 00:09:15,380 Michael Eidel: a value perspective, up to twenty thousand dollars in these 165 00:09:15,380 --> 00:09:17,100 Michael Eidel: respective areas of lifestyle. 166 00:09:17,690 --> 00:09:20,240 Sean Aylmer: Now I want to move on to being listed on 167 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,920 Sean Aylmer: the share market. So Openpay, like all the buy now, pay later groups, 168 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,370 Sean Aylmer: the volatility in the share price is quite incredible. And 169 00:09:28,670 --> 00:09:30,170 Sean Aylmer: you have seen the best of it and the worst 170 00:09:30,170 --> 00:09:32,300 Sean Aylmer: of it in many ways. What is it behind the 171 00:09:32,300 --> 00:09:35,060 Sean Aylmer: fluctuations in, I suppose I can only ask you about Openpay, 172 00:09:35,809 --> 00:09:38,600 Sean Aylmer: but also the whole sector seems to be very volatile. 173 00:09:39,170 --> 00:09:41,270 Michael Eidel: I think that's a good observation. And when I look 174 00:09:41,270 --> 00:09:44,870 Michael Eidel: into the reports of brokers and bank analysts, it's typically 175 00:09:44,870 --> 00:09:48,590 Michael Eidel: described as a sector which is really emerging and a 176 00:09:48,590 --> 00:09:51,229 Michael Eidel: lot to be learned in the market, what it is 177 00:09:51,230 --> 00:09:53,780 Michael Eidel: about and what I mentioned at the very beginning, distinguishing between 178 00:09:53,780 --> 00:09:57,140 Michael Eidel: pay in four and more digital consumer lending is something what 179 00:09:57,140 --> 00:09:59,239 Michael Eidel: the market first need to get their head around. What 180 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,449 Michael Eidel: that really means. Also in terms of growth and value 181 00:10:02,450 --> 00:10:06,290 Michael Eidel: going forward. You're right. We have seen us a bit 182 00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:08,840 Michael Eidel: more than a year ago, at a share price of $0.32 183 00:10:09,410 --> 00:10:12,410 Michael Eidel: when COVID hit the world and it went up a 184 00:10:12,410 --> 00:10:14,990 Michael Eidel: few months later to close to five dollars. And we 185 00:10:14,990 --> 00:10:18,620 Michael Eidel: are now at around $1.50, $1.60. So we have seen and 186 00:10:18,620 --> 00:10:22,280 Michael Eidel: the whole sector has seen significant volatility. If I look 187 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,400 Michael Eidel: at the recent share price development of ourselves and the 188 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,089 Michael Eidel: broader market, I think what will help our profile greatly 189 00:10:29,090 --> 00:10:32,000 Michael Eidel: is we have now hired the team in the US 190 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,810 Michael Eidel: and start to acquire partners and merchants in the US 191 00:10:35,809 --> 00:10:37,880 Michael Eidel: to launch now over the next couple of months. And 192 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,670 Michael Eidel: I think this will change the profile of our business 193 00:10:40,670 --> 00:10:44,000 Michael Eidel: and the profile of our growth very, very dramatically because 194 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,309 Michael Eidel: the US market is so big. If I take retail, 195 00:10:46,309 --> 00:10:49,820 Michael Eidel: it's times thirty what the Aussie market is. In the 196 00:10:49,820 --> 00:10:53,000 Michael Eidel: US we can from the outset focus on our key verticals, 197 00:10:53,330 --> 00:10:55,250 Michael Eidel: not kind of playing broad what we do here in 198 00:10:55,250 --> 00:10:57,980 Michael Eidel: Australia because the market is so small but we will focus in 199 00:10:57,980 --> 00:11:01,220 Michael Eidel: the US from the outset on health care with large 200 00:11:01,220 --> 00:11:07,250 Michael Eidel: dental service organisations. One contract, one technical integration, thousands of 201 00:11:07,250 --> 00:11:10,300 Michael Eidel: dentists and each of them have between eight hundred and 202 00:11:10,300 --> 00:11:13,750 Michael Eidel: fifteen hundred patients. So if you just look at the 203 00:11:13,750 --> 00:11:16,090 Michael Eidel: volume which we can create and the number of customers 204 00:11:16,090 --> 00:11:19,030 Michael Eidel: which you can win with one dental service organisation, which 205 00:11:19,030 --> 00:11:21,459 Michael Eidel: we are now acquiring, and not only one of them, 206 00:11:21,590 --> 00:11:24,040 Michael Eidel: but several of those, this will be an order of 207 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:28,329 Michael Eidel: magnitude of size to compare to Australia, which will, I think, 208 00:11:28,330 --> 00:11:31,120 Michael Eidel: just put us in a completely different perspective also vis a vis 209 00:11:31,300 --> 00:11:34,059 Michael Eidel: our competitors from a scale perspective. I think this will 210 00:11:34,059 --> 00:11:36,790 Michael Eidel: help our profile, our share price quite significantly. 211 00:11:37,270 --> 00:11:39,459 Sean Aylmer: Why do you think Australia then, cause the US market is 212 00:11:39,460 --> 00:11:42,760 Sean Aylmer: so underdeveloped relative to Australia in the buy now pay 213 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:44,950 Sean Aylmer: later space, they have a big listed group called The 214 00:11:44,950 --> 00:11:47,830 Sean Aylmer: Firm but really it's the Australian players doing as much 215 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,260 Sean Aylmer: or the subsidiaries of the Australian players really making their 216 00:11:50,260 --> 00:11:51,640 Sean Aylmer: mark over there. Why is that? 217 00:11:51,940 --> 00:11:55,120 Michael Eidel: From my perspective, I'm not Australian, but having been here 218 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,500 Michael Eidel: now for many, many years, including with one of the 219 00:11:57,510 --> 00:12:00,160 Michael Eidel: other leading banks, when it comes to technology, I think 220 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,130 Michael Eidel: it's a fantastic achievement for Australia to kind of be 221 00:12:03,130 --> 00:12:06,579 Michael Eidel: a breeding ground for such great innovation, not only but 222 00:12:06,580 --> 00:12:11,020 Michael Eidel: also in predominantly recently in the payment space. And I 223 00:12:11,020 --> 00:12:13,480 Michael Eidel: think it's fantastic that we are now able to export 224 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,920 Michael Eidel: our wonderful product, which combines really payments with digital lending very, 225 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,579 Michael Eidel: very smoothly now to the world, including the biggest payments 226 00:12:21,580 --> 00:12:24,160 Michael Eidel: market in the US. And I think it's for me, 227 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,740 Michael Eidel: the reason why I think Australia is leading from that 228 00:12:26,740 --> 00:12:30,280 Michael Eidel: perspective is really the openness of people, the culture here 229 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,579 Michael Eidel: to play, but really in the most positive sense with 230 00:12:33,580 --> 00:12:38,260 Michael Eidel: new technologies which provide great customer experiences and obviously add value. 231 00:12:38,260 --> 00:12:40,630 Michael Eidel: And I think this is what buy now, pay later really is about. 232 00:12:40,630 --> 00:12:42,910 Michael Eidel: And I think Australia can be proud to lead the 233 00:12:42,910 --> 00:12:44,170 Michael Eidel: market to that respect. 234 00:12:44,530 --> 00:12:48,010 Sean Aylmer: So will buy now, pay later products and instalment products, 235 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:49,900 Sean Aylmer: are they the new credit cards, do you think? 236 00:12:50,770 --> 00:12:52,720 Michael Eidel: I have said this some time ago and I still 237 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,780 Michael Eidel: believe in it very, very strongly, particularly in the area 238 00:12:55,780 --> 00:12:58,540 Michael Eidel: where we focus on which is these higher value and 239 00:12:58,540 --> 00:13:01,840 Michael Eidel: longer term plans. People, particularly young people, but now also 240 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,200 Michael Eidel: creeping up the curve from a demographic perspective, they don't 241 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,050 Michael Eidel: like credit cards anymore at all. They come with quite 242 00:13:08,050 --> 00:13:11,339 Michael Eidel: cumbersome kind of interest rates and kind of can get 243 00:13:11,350 --> 00:13:13,690 Michael Eidel: you in debt trap further down the track if you 244 00:13:13,690 --> 00:13:16,480 Michael Eidel: don't service your card in time. And I think this 245 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,689 Michael Eidel: is what buy now, pay later and buy now, pay smarter, our product can 246 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:24,070 Michael Eidel: really solve. People pay fees, but we are fully transparent, upfront, 247 00:13:24,070 --> 00:13:26,500 Michael Eidel: and they are reasonable and kind of in line with 248 00:13:26,500 --> 00:13:28,780 Michael Eidel: the value which we create to them, to the merchant 249 00:13:28,780 --> 00:13:31,540 Michael Eidel: and to the customer. So I believe mid to long 250 00:13:31,540 --> 00:13:36,370 Michael Eidel: term buy now, pay later, and buy now, pay smarter as we interpret it, will have a 251 00:13:36,370 --> 00:13:39,970 Michael Eidel: great potential to eat deeply into credit card usage. And 252 00:13:40,150 --> 00:13:42,850 Michael Eidel: that's what we are kind of working towards every day 253 00:13:42,850 --> 00:13:45,520 Michael Eidel: to create a great customer outcome for their purchases. 254 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:47,530 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, I mean, I think if you ever want an 255 00:13:47,530 --> 00:13:52,270 Sean Aylmer: example of FinTech benefiting Australian customers, just look at the 256 00:13:52,270 --> 00:13:54,550 Sean Aylmer: buy now, pay later space, because many of us just 257 00:13:54,550 --> 00:13:56,890 Sean Aylmer: don't use credit cards anymore. And that saves a lot 258 00:13:56,890 --> 00:13:57,250 Sean Aylmer: of money. 259 00:13:57,580 --> 00:13:58,780 Michael Eidel: Yeah, that's exactly right. 260 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,720 Sean Aylmer: Michael, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 261 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:02,420 Michael Eidel: Pleasure. Thanks for having me. 262 00:14:02,830 --> 00:14:04,930 Sean Aylmer: That was Michael Eidel, CEO of Openpay. 263 00:14:05,500 --> 00:14:07,510 Sean Aylmer: This is a Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join me 264 00:14:07,510 --> 00:14:10,270 Sean Aylmer: every morning for the full Fear and Greed podcast with 265 00:14:10,270 --> 00:14:13,020 Sean Aylmer: all the business news you need to know. I'm Sean Aylmer. 266 00:14:13,030 --> 00:14:13,840 Sean Aylmer: Enjoy your day.