WEBVTT - The Late Debate | 12 December 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:04.880 Late way, Welcome to the Light to Plase. 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:11.640 Good evening and welcome to the show. I'm Liz Storer 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.520 and I'm so glad you're here. Joining me tonight is 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:19.639 Joe Hildurand and mister kel Richards coming up tonight. We 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:23.960 have a packed show. First of all, Dutton has finally 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:27.520 told us what nuclear is going to cost, so you've 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:29.800 gotta definitely got to wait around to find out what 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:34.559 that total is. And irony is dead, ladies and gentlemen, 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:38.640 because employees working at the Mental Health Commission, that's a 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.960 government agency, has voted for the second year in a 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:45.120 row that out of one hundred and five government agencies, 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.480 it's the worst to work for. And last, but not least, 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:51.760 experts are now telling us that the costings the arbit 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:55.840 eazy government is telling us about for their new childcare 0:00:55.920 --> 0:01:00.920 regime is actually three times more than they're telling us 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:03.520 it is. Who's telling the truth. We'll walk you through that. 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:07.520 You've just got to stick around. But first tonight we 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:10.560 love to pay out on the ABC on the regular, 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:15.000 you know, for their inherent bias, their diving ratings due 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:17.600 to being so out of touch with the average Australian 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:21.720 and they're just casually framing our soldiers for war crimes 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.920 they didn't commit by adding an audio of gunshots that 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:28.800 didn't happen. You know, the usual stuff. But we really 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:33.600 talk about the other national broadcaster, the SBS, which is 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:37.600 also funded by the taxpayer by the tune of one 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:42.440 point eight billion dollars for five years starting last year. 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.840 It's still a lot of money. But this was brought 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:48.919 to our attention this week by a guy called Peter 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:51.960 who called into two GB to talk about the fact 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:59.120 that SBS do their weather report using indigenous language. Check 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:03.160 out this graphic. It's confusing for the best of us. 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:04.120 Certainly me. 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:04.760 I wouldn't. 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:07.880 I wouldn't have a clue whereas we're looking at that map, 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:10.840 which is the point that he raised. We are an 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:15.640 English speaking country. We do all speak English here and 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:19.280 that is hard to follow for the vast majority of us. 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:23.000 And so Ben Fordham then got on the line to 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:28.000 Warren Mundine, our resident Indigenous expert here at Sky News, 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:30.399 and asked him what do you make of this, mate. 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.720 I like having abridginal names. I like it Wollongong and 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:39.280 so on, and that now Wogga, woggar and things but look, 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.440 it starts getting a bit crazy and goes overboard, and 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:46.600 this is when it starts upsetting people. Brisbane is Brisbane, 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:50.440 Darwin is Darwin, and Wogga Wogger is Wogga Wogger and 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:51.440 Dabbo is Dabbo. 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:54.520 We know already that out of the four million place 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:58.359 names across Australia, about seventy five percent of them from 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:02.000 indigenous names, whether it's war Wagga Wogga or Ballarat or 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:05.960 Barangaroo or ben Along or Crinolla or Kulji. So the 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:07.720 dual names just doesn't make sense to me. 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:12.640 Seventy five percent out of four million place names in 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.919 Australia are already indigenous kel how many. 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:17.360 More do we need exactly? 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:19.400 And Ben knew that because I told him on an 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:20.320 earlier broadcast. 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:21.760 He rang me up on lake. 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:24.440 He tried to change the name of Cook's River to 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:29.600 Gulay on the claim that that was the local indigenous name, 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:31.560 And so we had to chat about this, and I said, 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:35.600 there are already three million indigenous names on the map, 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.040 so you don't know anymore. In other words, what they're 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:42.360 doing is not adding extra indigenous names. They're trying to 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:46.400 get rid of English names. It an entirely negative process. 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:48.240 Yeah, well that's what we see in this graphic. 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:50.720 What SBS is doing is breaking all the rules. 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:54.200 Every state has got a geographical names board and they 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.360 get together and they've all got the same sort of rules. 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:58.800 One of the rules that the geographical names boards of 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:02.320 the states have is you can add names, you can 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:04.840 create what it's called double naming, but you can only 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:09.560 do that with physical objects a mountain, a river, perhaps 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:14.440 an island, not a populated area where people live. So 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:18.240 trying to rename Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney is simply wrong. 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:20.960 It breaks all those rules. The second thing is they 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:23.760 don't replace the names, they give them double names. So 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:28.120 in fact Ularu is actually called legally Ularou slash airs Rock, 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:30.840 which is why the airport is still called airs Rock Airport, 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:33.440 and why the resort is still called airs Rock Resort, 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:37.160 because the real name of the place is Ularu airs Rock. Now, 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:39.640 those are the rules. You can dual name some things, 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:43.560 but only physical objects. And this idea that they can 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:47.160 rename entire entire cities is simply against the rules. It's 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:51.680 against the law. So some halfwit and I'm possibly overestimating 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:55.039 the fraction in saying that some half with a SBS 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:56.640 doesn't know what the rules are. 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:58.679 They don't know what the how it all cames. 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.920 It's just absolute not Since I've started a small organization 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:06.320 called SOP pronounce soap, Save our place Names? Would you 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:08.479 like to support it? All you need to do is 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:11.159 be critical every time this rubbish comes up. Go to 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:14.719 my website oswords dot com dot you, ozed words dot 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.680 com dot a you go to the feedback page and 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:20.560 send me a note saying kel I'm on side with soap. 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:22.440 I want to save our place names. 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:24.520 Well, we've got to save the twenty five percent that 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:27.839 we have left. But Joe, what is this really achieving? 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.800 Four percent of the population is indigenous. How many of 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:33.640 them are watching the SBS or are they simply trying 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:37.920 to massage in indigenous dialects into the English speaking nation. 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:40.440 Well, I'm furious about this. In fact, I've started my 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:43.799 own sportrad like cal which is God, I'm majorly peeved 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:46.679 or give and if you'd like to go to our website. 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.200 Don't gurgle it, by the way, just don't gurgle it. 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:53.440 Oh my god, No, I was actually I was born 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:55.160 heavily do not get born and. 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:59.160 Raised in an Aboriginal place name Dandinong, which is at 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:02.960 the local Aboriginal dialect for home of the handsome journalists. Right, 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:06.479 And I do not say I love the fact that 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:09.200 all our place names are a sort of pastiche of 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:12.080 all these all these different cultures. I mean, our tallest 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:16.280 mountain is Mount Kosiosco, named after some Polish dude. I 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.279 bet you know the people that the cities that are 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:21.680 Canberra is of course an Aboriginal name, so our capital 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:23.560 city is named after it. So it's weird that they've 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:24.440 changed the name. 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:29.200 Of the Yeah, even doesn't Canbra another Aboriginal name. 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:32.200 Well, what they've done is what they put on their 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:34.680 map was the name of the tribe which is in Gambrie, 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:37.680 and in Gambri it was anglicized to become Canberra. But 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:40.159 you know, you don't need to change it back to 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:44.280 the unanglicized version. Once a place is known and established, 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:46.320 you don't fiddle with it. I don't know what sbeis 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:48.960 is trying to achieve, except to seem as though we 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:49.800 are more sensitive. 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.800 I don't think they're going far received. Yes, no, if 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:55.560 they want to be truly committed do the entire bulletin 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:56.960 an indigenous. 0:06:56.560 --> 0:07:02.600 Language, different dialog, that's right, different like there's been this, 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.520 there's been this, like hunger games, deathmatch in each of 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:06.560 these place names. 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:09.200 Because of course most of the places like Sydney, which 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:11.320 I thought was played of the aorination anyway, what would 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:15.840 I know? Hast has got it is called Warrang and 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:18.440 and then and there's in fact a whole bunch of 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:22.360 different tribes, different people who all live in the Sydney 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:24.440 but to give you a number, so they have to 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:26.720 it's like survivor there is. 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:29.000 Another name, and there's there's some people who will say 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:33.640 Sidney should be called Aura, not Wrang. But nationally there 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:37.040 were when when a settlers arrived and brought the place 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:39.400 into the modern world in seventeen eighty eight, there were 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.600 at least two hundred indigenous languages. That's possibly more than 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:45.200 two hundred. So that it's not like New Zealand, where 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:47.840 Mari is a language that covers most of the place. 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:51.120 It's not like that there isn't one indigenous language, so 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:53.160 it's impossible to start playing these games. 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.440 No, I think that if they're truly committed to indigenous 0:07:56.440 --> 0:08:00.440 culture and indigeneity. They should do the entire news bulletin 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:06.840 in all two hundred can do to commit, You've got 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:11.840 to commit. You can't just be a little bit anti racist. 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:14.600 Come on, there's still a lot of colonialism in that 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:18.160 bulletin and we need to decolonize it. Decolonize it now. 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:22.480 I'm over that seventy five percent. I'm like, how great 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:25.080 are we? Next time a name changes, who comes up, 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:27.360 I'm just going to be like, look, we've done seventy 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:30.559 five percent out of four million name places. I think 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:31.480 we're good. 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:32.439 To the UK. 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:36.240 Now, where the issue of marrying one's first cousin has 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:39.520 been brought to light by an MP by the name 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:43.160 of Richard Holden, which who is looking to ban the 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:48.920 practice nation wide. He says first cousin marriage raises serious 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:52.800 concerns both in the UK and globally. Studies show that 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.040 it is associated with approximately double the rate of birth 0:08:56.120 --> 0:09:00.240 defects compared to the general population and can reinforce negative 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:04.400 structures and control women. Building on my previous work to 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:09.040 bear hymenoplasty for the uninitiated, that's a procedure which ensures 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:12.240 a woman will bleed next time she's sexually active. So 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:16.960 quite barbaric and so called virginity testing in the last parliament. 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:24.160 They we're testing virginity in parliament. That's not appropriate, oh Jo, 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:26.920 it's not the right. Find a private room or a 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:28.720 booth or something. You can't just do it on the 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:29.920 floor of the House of Commons. 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:32.119 The love of God man. 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:35.959 He says, I will urge the government to reconsider the 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:41.680 legality of first cousin marriage in the UK. Now, this 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:45.800 was of course objected to by others in the chamber. 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:50.000 Could you marry your first cousin? 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:50.240 Now? 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:53.160 I didn't even think it was allowed in this country. 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.959 But a big debate in Parliament yesterday and a member 0:09:57.000 --> 0:09:58.960 of Parliament from a certain communities he got up and 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:03.839 said that marrying first cousins strengthens family bonds. And if 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:06.760 you look and our innocent is at the number of 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:09.320 babies that are born with clef palettess and all sorts 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:13.800 of disorders, because that is kind of breeding too close. Maybe, 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:16.880 like me, you think it's a really bad idea and 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:19.400 maybe we should say no, it's not legal. 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.080 I can't believe Nigel for Ourge objected to it. 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:27.440 I thought, who does indeed support it and believes it 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:33.920 should be banned nationwide. Here's Ikbal Muhammad, the independent MP 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.199 who took the stage on the floor of the House 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:39.480 of Commons to object to this move. 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:44.200 It is important to recognize for many people this is 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:48.120 a highly sensitive issue and in discussing it we should 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.840 try to step into the shoes of those who perhaps 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:55.439 are not from the same culture as ours to better 0:10:55.559 --> 0:11:00.439 understand why the practice continues to be so widespread. An 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.880 estimated thirty five to fifty percent of all sub Saharan 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:09.200 African populations either prefer or accept cousin marriages, and it 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:12.920 is extremely common in the Middle East. The reason the 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:17.320 practice is so common is our ordinary people see family 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:22.160 intermarriage overall as something that is very positive, something that 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:26.320 helps build family bonds and helps put families on a 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:28.760 more secure financial foothold. 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:34.120 Yes, but I dare say most of England does disagree 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:37.440 with this practice and is very surprised to find out 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:41.040 that it is so prevalent. The articles written on this 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:44.600 today majored on a certain suburb in which amongst the 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:49.320 Pakistani community was up to sixty percent of marriages were 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:53.280 to first cousins and kel When you consider that this 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:56.640 is in a country where the taxpayer are then fitting 0:11:56.679 --> 0:12:00.680 the bill for the various deformities as Farage talked about 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:04.679 just there that kids are being born with. They talk 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:09.439 about extreme inbreeding because of course, generation after generation, if 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:14.040 this practice continues, things can get really, really difficult for 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:14.760 their progeny. 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.480 I checked it out on a biogenetics website and they 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.440 said there are some deformities, so they mentioned things like 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:25.679 cystic fibrosis, sickle cell anemia, and some other things, but 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:28.199 they didn't say it's not a reason not to marry. 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:32.000 It was a reason for genetic testing and genetic counseling. 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.600 Now that's what they were saying, and it's not against 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:37.640 the law. In fact, what I did was I went 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:39.280 to the back of the old Book of Common Prayer 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:43.439 where there's a list of consanguinity, the people you're related. 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:45.120 To you're not allowed to marry. And a man may 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:46.280 not marry on that. 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:51.440 List his mother, his daughter, his grandmother, his granddaughter, his sister, 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:53.800 his niece's daughter in law, his mother in law, all 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:57.880 his aunts. But cousins don't get a mention. And that's 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:00.600 reflected in British law. It is not against the law 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:02.480 in Britain at the moment. For first cousins. 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:05.600 It's actually not against the law here. 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:09.840 That's right, because it's great. I mean, come on, what 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.400 are they going to do in Alabama? What are they 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:13.160 going to do? 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:14.280 Do' worry about Australia? 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.560 What are they going to do in Springfield? Do you guys? 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:20.640 Do you guys? You like your classical history? 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:20.800 Right? 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:21.720 Classical culture? 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:25.160 Yes, there was a lot of in reading and Hara, the. 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:27.760 King and Queen of the gods were brother and sister. 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:30.439 Okay, these are mythical characters. 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:34.000 Okay, Cleopatron Ptolemy the last Pharaoh, I. 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.400 Don't deny it was widely practiced in the past, but 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:41.280 it became less and less prevalent. Why because people started 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:45.480 to understand, Hang on a second, this has very real, 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:47.800 uh world outcomes. 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:49.480 It's just a lack of tolerance. 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:51.960 Understand, generation after generation. 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:54.400 I think about half the States of America, it's still 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:56.760 legal and there's just been a division. And in fact, 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.960 I've managed to obtain the actual footage of the found 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:04.439 funding fathers discussing this very issue just a few generations 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:06.760 ago in the United States of America. 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:10.400 Have a look, we can worship freely, govern justly, and 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.600 grow vast fields of hemp for making rope and blankets. 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:17.680 Yes, and marry our cousins. I was, what are you 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:18.840 talking about, Shelby Bill. 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:21.280 Why would we want to marry our cousins? Guys, they're 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:22.000 so attractive. 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:25.080 I thought that was the whole point of this journey. 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:25.960 Absolutely not. 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:28.320 I tell you, I won't live in a town that 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.560 rubs men of the right to marry their cousins. 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:36.560 So in closing, marry your cousins, it's the Australian thing today. 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:40.280 Me I'm like, my cousins are literally like brothers. So 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:42.000 the very idea is. 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:43.280 Like, that's all right. 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:46.840 Just you know, Jack, Josh, if you're watching, we're safe, okay. 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:48.920 Can I just tell you there's also there is no 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:52.960 law requiring you to marry your cousin, so related no nobody. 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:57.160 I do wonder what the women who are probably it's 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.520 some sort of arranged I mean, are they actually choosing 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:02.480 to marry their com I think. 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.240 There are a lot, certainly a lot of arranged marriages 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:07.360 in Middle Eastern communities. But I think in the old days, 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:09.040 the reason why the Totlemys did it in Egypt is 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.440 because they felt it kept their bloodline pure and so 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:15.040 you were even more of an alpha royal if you 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:17.840 came solely from royal blood, which is a bit like 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:19.520 the English. 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:22.280 Can I just suggest we're not going to settle this. 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.200 Let's turn it. Let's turn to another topic. 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.480 Because the issue of what's happening to children who suffer 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:31.840 from gender dysphoria, who are confused about who they are, 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.400 boys who think they should be girls, girls who think 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.800 they should be boys. How should they be treated In Australia, 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:41.080 At the moment they get what is called gender affirmation treatment, 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:45.240 that is, they affirm the gender dysphoria, they're offered puberty blockers. 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.080 There are offered that kind of treatment and encouragement to 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:52.160 pursuit go down that path. Interestingly, the UK has now 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:54.680 come down firmly on the opposite side to where we 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:58.280 are in Australia and puberty blockers are to be banned 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:02.520 indefinitely for those under eighteen years. It seems to me 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:07.600 is the key to this is children don't understand consequences. 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:11.040 So a child really can't understand. Look, this might have 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:14.880 these puberty blockers do have side effects to bone density 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:17.800 and fertility and other things, but they don't understand. In 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:21.520 ten years time, I might feel very differently, and all 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.840 the statistics show that kids who suffer from gender dysphoria 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:28.680 it usually passes over time. It does talking therapies might 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:32.200 be a good idea. They can't make big decisions because 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:35.239 they don't understand consequences. 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:38.520 And because it's a psychological issue. A lot of the pediatricians, 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.280 the child psychiatrists, psychologists who have tried to be the 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:46.520 whistleblowers here and speak out. Obviously they've made great traction 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:50.120 in the UK. They're saying this is a psychological issue. 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:53.920 Let us help them on a clinical level instead of 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:58.320 going down here's some pills path. That's not how you 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.320 fix a psychological issue. We also know that a lot 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:06.080 of these kids have other issues going on with relation 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:10.040 to their mental health. So that NHS England said that 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:13.520 the indefinite band closes a loophole that posed a risk 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:17.879 to the safety of children and young people through private provision. 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:21.360 The ban applies to new patients only. That's an important 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:25.640 point there with NHS and private patients already receiving these 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:31.399 medicines for gender dysphoria will continue to have their access. 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:36.000 It was Health Minister Where's Streeting who introduced this bill today. 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:40.440 Amendment I should say saying we put an emergency stopper 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:44.800 on these puberty blockers earlier this year after we found 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:49.120 out the catastrophic findings of the CAST report. All I'm 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.800 telling you now is that that ban is now indefinitely 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:56.240 in place. We are having a bigger inquiry into this, 0:17:56.720 --> 0:18:00.080 and that I think comes out in twenty twenty six. 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:03.000 So he's promised them that. But here he was in 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:07.199 question time after moving this motion in the House. He 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.680 of course got absolutely beset upon for the better part 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:15.600 of an hour with the opposition hammering him with questions. 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:19.000 They're the usual suspects you can imagine, but he did 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:20.600 his best at holding his own. 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:28.080 I have to take decisions about the welfare, wellbeing and 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:32.639 safety of children in this country based on clinical evidence, 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.520 and when our own Commission on Human Medicines says that 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:42.480 there is an unacceptable safety risk and an unsafe prescribing environment, 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:47.000 I have to take that seriously. Anyone asks, you know, 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:51.399 challenging me to do something else, to ask, quite sincerely, 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:53.639 if they were standing in my shoes as a Secretary 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.280 of State for Health and Social Care and they were 0:18:56.480 --> 0:19:01.040 looking at recommendations from clinicians in our country and the 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:04.800 Commission on including the Commission on Human Medicines saying there 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:07.480 is insufficient evidence for use of medication in children young 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:10.800 people for this purpose and that there is an unacceptable 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:15.199 safety risk arising from the current prescribing environment. I asked them, 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:18.160 would they really be taking a different decision here? 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:18.440 Here? 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:22.920 Listen to the clinician's Joe, what a great likely Hanson 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:26.760 has dried five times just to get an inquiry into 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:30.359 what's going on with regard to gender affirming care for 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:32.959 children in Australia to no avail. 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:36.280 Yeah. I think the problem here is that you have 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:41.119 an issue which has got a huge amount of awareness 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:44.159 about it, very very suddenly and disproportionately I think, to 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:48.040 the number of people who actually undergo it, and that 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:51.080 this has led to I think what Richard Dawkins called 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:55.520 the possibility of contagion, which is that it becomes a 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:57.919 kind of fad, and so people say, all right, oh, 0:19:57.960 --> 0:19:59.560 there's this new thing called gender, it's for it. Oh 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:01.680 I've got it. Oh maybe I'm gender fluid. And you 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:03.439 can you can actually see it. You can see it 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:05.400 just walking down the street. You can see the number 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:08.520 of people who are dressing androgynously is far far higher 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:10.560 than it has been now. In many ways, this is 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:13.159 just sort of harmless, and it's just another thing that 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:15.399 you know, like wearing flares in the sixties or whatever. 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:18.719 The problem is when you when you get it's harmless, 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:22.000 when you then people just dressing differently or whatever. But 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:25.480 the point is, once you have medical interventions that could 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:29.119 actually for the very small amount of people who genuinely 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:32.320 know that they are in the wrong body, I imagine 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:35.159 that that would in fact be extremely helpful to them 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:38.080 and save them from a much longer lifetime of trauma. 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:42.159 The problem is you've got a risk of over prescribing 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:44.080 things and using that as the first port of call 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:47.440 instead of you know, I suppose troubleshooting for everything else, 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:51.119 including possibly autism and other mental conditions that genderdics for. 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:54.679 It might be sort of cloaking, yes and so and so. 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:57.040 I think this is where a lot of the people 0:20:57.040 --> 0:20:59.560 who jump up and down about it and activists in 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:03.680 this area actually do themselves a huge disservice because by saying, 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:05.720 oh my god, it's everywhere, you know, and you haven't 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:07.399 been paying attention, but it's been here all along, and 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:08.720 look here it is, and everyone's doing it, and you 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.240 can't touch anything, you can't do anything. You do end 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:13.720 up running the risk of people who get swept up 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:16.840 in this thing going for these treatments later regretting it. 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:19.560 They then talk to bodies and experts like the cast review, 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:21.520 and indeed experts see them and say, oh my god, 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.760 these people are getting changed into something that they are 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:28.679 not and didn't actually want to be and able to 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:31.200 make a decision, and this is terrible, and now we've 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:33.680 got to shut everything down out of an abundance of caution, 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:36.320 which means that the small minority of people who could 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.439 actually really benefit from these treatments that weren't available to 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:42.080 some of the pioneers in this area, people like Carlotta 0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:44.080 or Catherine McGregor, I'm sure would have loved. 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:46.560 This is only up until you're eighteen. At eighteen, they 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:50.919