Speaker 1: It would be hard to make up a scenario that
Speaker 1: was more haunting, more spooky, more Elfred Hitchcock than this
Speaker 1: real life case. It's possible that Desi Freeman hid in
Speaker 1: a cave in Uo or a min in UOV and
Speaker 1: that he's just gone to sleep and been poisoned by poison.
Speaker 1: Gas Beth Barnard was found and the letter A had
Speaker 1: been carved into her Torso I mean Andrew Rule.
Speaker 2: This is life and crimes.
Speaker 1: As we put this podcast to here. Today things are
Speaker 1: happening into state with one of the bigger cases of
Speaker 1: recent years in South Australia and probably nationwide, and that
Speaker 1: is the latest development in the case of the missing child.
Speaker 1: Gas La Motte and little Gus, just four years old,
Speaker 1: went missing from Oak Park Station September twenty twenty five
Speaker 1: and Gus, little blonde boy, big wide smile. He was
Speaker 1: living on that station, which is a very remote and
Speaker 1: vast property right out in the sort of dry semi
Speaker 1: desert country near the district of Junta. Gus vanished in
Speaker 1: late September on a particular day and searches were mounted
Speaker 1: and the mystery deepened with every passing day. It has
Speaker 1: come to pass that there have now been eight separate
Speaker 1: searches of a very large area, a radius of five
Speaker 1: and a half kilometers, which, when you do the calculation,
Speaker 1: is something like almost one hundred square kilometers of area
Speaker 1: searched very diligently on foot and by air and all
Speaker 1: the ways that you can search. Not one midgeon of
Speaker 1: evidence has been found of the little boy, the missing boy.
Speaker 1: No footprints. There was one print found. They thought it
Speaker 1: might have been a print, but now they're thinking it wasn't.
Speaker 1: No clothing, no sign of a struggle, no blood, no body,
Speaker 1: no nothing, complete mystery. They've dragged dams, they've looked in
Speaker 1: creek beds, They've done everything they could. They've looked at
Speaker 1: the possibility of dingoes or wild pigs and whatever, or
Speaker 1: of some sort of abduction by an outsider. And it
Speaker 1: turns out that after all these options have been looked
Speaker 1: at and discounted, that the police have decided with a
Speaker 1: heavy heart that really the most likely answer to the
Speaker 1: mystery of Gaslamont is closer to home.
Speaker 2: The police, as.
Speaker 1: Of the fifth of February, have declared that it is
Speaker 1: a major crime and a major person of interest is
Speaker 1: one of the people in Guss's circle. This is not
Speaker 1: his parents, It's not his mother or his father Josh Lamont,
Speaker 1: it is someone else. The senior police person who conducted
Speaker 1: a very long and thorough media briefing on February the fifth,
Speaker 1: pointed out that there were certain anomalies and contradictions which
Speaker 1: had cropped up when police had interviewed family members and
Speaker 1: done timelines and tried to trace what each member of
Speaker 1: the family had done at a certain time, etc.
Speaker 2: Etc.
Speaker 1: That these anomalies and contradictions had become so obvious that
Speaker 1: the police had questioned the family members about them. It
Speaker 1: shows you that that case is now regarded by the
Speaker 1: police as possibly solvable, and that the one area of investigation,
Speaker 1: after exhausting all the others, they were at Haines to
Speaker 1: point out how much searching had gone on. Eight separate
Speaker 1: searches over four months have revealed nothing that after all
Speaker 1: that they have no other conclusion than to investigate anomalies
Speaker 1: and contradictions inside the family circle.
Speaker 2: We will look forward to.
Speaker 1: Finding out more about the mysterious disappearance of Gaslamont in
Speaker 1: the coming days and weeks. However, there are other cases
Speaker 1: in Victoria. We have the ongoing search for Desi Freeman,
Speaker 1: the man who allegedly shot dead to police and injured
Speaker 1: a third police officer at Poor Punka in the northeast
Speaker 1: at the end of last winter. Now, in recent days
Speaker 1: police have had a good look once more at reports
Speaker 1: that there was a single gunshot heard at a particular
Speaker 1: time on the day of the killings, and it is
Speaker 1: understood that they have a specific time, like a particular
Speaker 1: time the afternoon when this gunshot was heard, which leads
Speaker 1: some people who were involved in covering the.
Speaker 2: Case to deduce the police.
Speaker 1: Have been able to tap into some form of closed
Speaker 1: circuit camera or something that recorded an audio shot in
Speaker 1: the distance at a particular time of day, and.
Speaker 2: That that recording is possibly.
Speaker 1: Given them some technical way of comparing that sound with
Speaker 1: similar shots that they could do as a test run
Speaker 1: as a way of trying to pinpoint where this supposed
Speaker 1: single shot could have been, to pinpoint approximately where that
Speaker 1: shot occurred, because obviously they're looking at the possible that
Speaker 1: Desi Freeman having done allegedly the terrible crime that he did,
Speaker 1: I mean two police were shot dead, that he's run
Speaker 1: into the bush and within two or three hours perhaps
Speaker 1: killed himself by shooting himself with one of the firearms
Speaker 1: that he was known to possess. Now that is a
Speaker 1: valid theory. And the undergrowth in that area is thick,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of mind shafts, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of rough country. It's extraordinarily rough. One of our own photographers,
Speaker 1: Jason Edwards, who's covered this case in great depth, is
Speaker 1: a rock climber in his spare time, and he and
Speaker 1: his mates have been up there and he said it's
Speaker 1: an incredibly difficult country, even for fit people well prepared
Speaker 1: with ropes and so on and so on, and he
Speaker 1: said would be a very onerous task to search each
Speaker 1: square meter of it thoroughly, as good a job as
Speaker 1: the police obviously done. However, there is another possibility, and
Speaker 1: it's a possibility that no doubt the police have entertained
Speaker 1: but not spoken about, at least not publicly, And that
Speaker 1: is this.
Speaker 2: And this was brought to my.
Speaker 1: Attention by the eminent historian and writer, doctor John Watson,
Speaker 1: and he points out correctly that in a district which
Speaker 1: has so many mine shafts, which it has, that area
Speaker 1: has hundreds, if not thousands of mine shafts, most of
Speaker 1: them lost overgrown, They are left over from the gold
Speaker 1: rushes of the mid nineteenth century. The countryside is riddled
Speaker 1: with them, and there is no doubt that someone who
Speaker 1: walked around the district like Dezzy Freeman did or was
Speaker 1: known to do, would have known of the existence of
Speaker 1: various mine shafts. Now, not all mine shafts drop straight
Speaker 1: down into the ground. Some of them go traverse inwards
Speaker 1: into a hill site. They are known as drives. They
Speaker 1: drive relatively horizontally and then they can go along like that,
Speaker 1: and then they can drop into a shaft downwards. There's
Speaker 1: all different permutations of mines. Dom Watson pointed out, as
Speaker 1: is relatively well known in mining circles. Mines are dangerous
Speaker 1: because gases can be trapped in them.
Speaker 2: It is always the great.
Speaker 1: Fear of miners that they will be poisoned by a
Speaker 1: gas that is imperceptible to them until it's too late.
Speaker 1: And that is why we have that saying the canary
Speaker 1: in the mind shaft. That old time miners would carry
Speaker 1: canaries in cages down to deep mines, so that if
Speaker 1: there were dangerous and deadly gases, the canary, a very
Speaker 1: vulnerable small creature, would feel it the effects of it
Speaker 1: before the miners did before the humans did, and a
Speaker 1: canary would stop whistling or making a noise and would
Speaker 1: be unconscious or dead before humans felt the effects of
Speaker 1: dangerous gases. Now there is more than one form of
Speaker 1: potentially deadly gas found in minds. The main one, but
Speaker 1: not the only one, is carbon monoxide. And carbon monoxide.
Speaker 2: Is odorless, it's tasteless, it's invisible.
Speaker 1: And if you are in a space, a room, or
Speaker 1: a cave or anything else where, there is carbon monoxide.
Speaker 1: And this can happen at home, in your own garage.
Speaker 1: If you start a car in a closed garage that's
Speaker 1: relatively air tight, you can just go to sleep and die.
Speaker 1: It's very deadly because it just quietly knocks you out
Speaker 1: and then you die. And it is on the cards.
Speaker 1: It's possible that if Desi Freeman sought shelter in a
Speaker 1: mind shaft, he might have known one or two or
Speaker 1: three that he had his eye on. And even if
Speaker 1: he'd visited such a mind shaft in the past for
Speaker 1: twenty minutes, half an hour, an hour, even if he'd
Speaker 1: done that and perhaps even puts some supplies there, you know,
Speaker 1: some baked beans and a blanket or whatever that sort
Speaker 1: of stuff that he may not realize the potential for
Speaker 1: dangerous gases. These gases can be produced by rotting vegetation.
Speaker 1: They can be produced by rotting timber that the old
Speaker 1: timbers that the miners put in the mind shafts. When
Speaker 1: they've rot they give off gases which if trapped, if
Speaker 1: they dissipate into the air, no problem. But if they're
Speaker 1: trapped in a pocket, you can breathe them in and die.
Speaker 1: John Watson's hypothesis, which he put together in an excellent
Speaker 1: essay on this whole case, is that it's possible that
Speaker 1: Desi Freeman hid in a cave in or are Mine
Speaker 1: knew of, and that he's just gone to sleep and
Speaker 1: been poisoned by poison gas, by carbon monoxide or one
Speaker 1: of the other forms of gas, such as I think
Speaker 1: sulfide is one, and there are others, most of them
Speaker 1: produced by nature, but some of course could come from
Speaker 1: the chemicals or substances used in the early days by
Speaker 1: the old time miners. They might have left tins of
Speaker 1: stuff down there, and as it's rusted and rotted away,
Speaker 1: these dangerous gases could form and then be suspended at
Speaker 1: a certain level underground, So that the unsuspecting visitor hits
Speaker 1: them and he's poisoned by them. It's no more far
Speaker 1: fetched than any other scenario.
Speaker 2: It's probably less far fetched.
Speaker 1: Than the idea that Desi Freeman hit shiked his way
Speaker 1: out of the area, or that somebody knew he was
Speaker 1: on the run immediately and put him in their boot
Speaker 1: and drove him away. I think at this point of time,
Speaker 1: after all these months, after this amount of time, and
Speaker 1: we're looking at least five months.
Speaker 2: That the police will probably have ruled out.
Speaker 1: Any chance that Desi Freeman was helped by other people
Speaker 1: and he's being harbored by other people. Because the one
Speaker 1: thing that modern police forces are very good at a
Speaker 1: superb at, is using electronic surveillance techniques telephones, cameras, etc.
Speaker 1: In order to pick up any clues that might give
Speaker 1: away what people are up to. And I think it's
Speaker 1: fair to say that if any one of dozens of
Speaker 1: people in any way associated with Desi Freeman or his sympathizers,
Speaker 1: if any one of them had said or done anything
Speaker 1: in the last five months that they knew.
Speaker 2: That Desi was alive, the police.
Speaker 1: Would know about it and they would have acted on it.
Speaker 1: That has clearly not happened. The theory that Desi is dead,
Speaker 1: either by his own hand or by misadventure, he's gathering
Speaker 1: strength with every passing week. Now, while we're still in Victoria,
Speaker 1: let's have a look at the case of the Lonely
Speaker 1: Bones at Phillip Island. Now back in January, January the
Speaker 1: fifteenth a plumber working on the sulage line as they
Speaker 1: call it, for a septic tank behind a house in an.
Speaker 2: Estate called Silver Leaves Estate.
Speaker 1: On Phillip Island. This plumber stumbled over some bones. Down
Speaker 1: he's digging a hole and he found some bones. Now, initially,
Speaker 1: the thought immediately was could this be evidence from a
Speaker 1: modern cold case? And what everybody wanted on that first
Speaker 1: day was could it be the remains of the missing
Speaker 1: woman Vivian Cameron. Now, Vivian Cameron is the person at
Speaker 1: the center really of what he's known as the Philip
Speaker 1: Island Murder. The Philip Island murder happened forty years ago,
Speaker 1: and that was a notorious case where it was discovered
Speaker 1: that Vivian Cameron's husband, local landholder, farmer and sort of
Speaker 1: quite an important person on Philip Island, a low called
Speaker 1: Fergus Cameron.
Speaker 2: It was discovered well, she discovered that he had.
Speaker 1: Been having an affair with a young woman who worked
Speaker 1: on the property. That young woman was called Beth Barnard.
Speaker 1: She was twenty three, She was the daughter of a
Speaker 1: Melbourne lawyer, and she decided that she'd worked down at
Speaker 1: Phili Violin on this property for a while, et cetera,
Speaker 1: and she'd formed this illicit casual relationship with the older man.
Speaker 1: Fergus Cameron. Missus Cameron, mother of two or three kids,
Speaker 1: found out about it and was greatly distressed, as she
Speaker 1: might be. And the result was forty years ago that
Speaker 1: Beth Barnard was found stabbed. She's found killed and the
Speaker 1: letter A had been carved into her torso and that
Speaker 1: some people concluded, and it's understandable that they would conclude this,
Speaker 1: that it was a symbol. It was a for adulteress.
Speaker 1: And this was something that had cropped up in a
Speaker 1: fairly famous novel. It had a literary allusion to it,
Speaker 1: this a for adulteress. And what added to the mystery
Speaker 1: was that Vivian Cameron, the wronged wife, disappear at the
Speaker 1: same time that Beth Barnard was murdered on the same
Speaker 1: night Vivian Cameron disappeared and the vehicle she drove I
Speaker 1: think it was a fool drive or something. It was
Speaker 1: found on or near the big bridge that leads from
Speaker 1: Philip Island over to San Remo. And the assumption was,
Speaker 1: and it's a very fair assumption, that she had done
Speaker 1: the murder in a fit of rage and then done
Speaker 1: away with herself by throwing herself off the bridge into
Speaker 1: the fast flowing channel when the tides are turning there
Speaker 1: the water runs fast, and it is an area because
Speaker 1: of seals and other things, that does have its share
Speaker 1: of sharks, white point of sharks. And if you throw
Speaker 1: yourself in the water there and you aren't a good swimmer,
Speaker 1: or you actually want to die, there's every chance that
Speaker 1: you'd be swept out to see and then you would
Speaker 1: perhaps never be found because you be eaten by sea creatures.
Speaker 2: So that was a scenario that presented itself for years.
Speaker 1: The Philip Island Murder threw up at least one factual
Speaker 1: book written by Vicky Petratus and Paul Day, I think
Speaker 1: the first version of it, and it threw up a novel,
Speaker 1: a novel written by Chloe Hooper, which is I think
Speaker 1: called the Children's Book of True Crime, and it is
Speaker 1: an interesting, rather experimental novel which brought Chloe Hooper attention
Speaker 1: as one of our emerging writers a couple of decades ago,
Speaker 1: and she's now one of our better known writers. And
Speaker 1: in fact, I understand that she's finishing a new novel,
Speaker 1: albeit not one about Philip Island this time. So the
Speaker 1: point I'm making about writers and the Philip Island case
Speaker 1: is that it's a case that captures the imagination. It
Speaker 1: would be hard to make up scenario that was more haunting,
Speaker 1: more spooky, more Alfred Hitchcock than this real life case.
Speaker 1: So the bones, the bones that were found on January
Speaker 1: the fifteenth, Huban.
Speaker 2: What are they?
Speaker 1: Well, my sources on Phillip Island, and my source there
Speaker 1: is a good source, because he's a person who knows
Speaker 1: a lot of people, including probably the local law enforcement people,
Speaker 1: and they would be abreast of the latest developments in
Speaker 1: DNA searches and forensic searches and all the rest of it.
Speaker 1: And he tells me that the assumption now is that
Speaker 1: the bones found were of a young female, but that
Speaker 1: they are not modern bones that are the subject of
Speaker 1: an abduction or murder. Or kidnapped case. We don't think
Speaker 1: that these bones are the answer.
Speaker 2: To a cold case such as let's.
Speaker 1: Say bung Siriburn disappearing Baronia in the Eastern Suburbs in
Speaker 1: twenty and eleven, or a girl called Sharie Westall who
Speaker 1: was fifteen years old vanished after a dentist's appointment out
Speaker 1: in the far eastern suburbs of Melbourne, and no one's
Speaker 1: ever seen her again, and it's not known if she's
Speaker 1: alive or dead, but you would assume she's probably dead,
Speaker 1: but her body was never found or identified. It would
Speaker 1: appear that the police have ruled out those possibilities, and
Speaker 1: it's looking increasingly likely that the bones are very old,
Speaker 1: and they probably belong to a teenage Indigenous person or
Speaker 1: First Nations person from a long time ago, and by that,
Speaker 1: you know, possibly even the century before last, or something
Speaker 1: of that nature, in which case it'll be an interesting
Speaker 1: piece of archaeology and there'll be a lot of and
Speaker 1: throying about where to take those bones and to reinter
Speaker 1: them with the appropriate ceremonies. Let's have a look at
Speaker 1: another case now, fifteen years ago. Herald's some photographer David
Speaker 1: Cared and myself went to Dubbo in New South Wales,
Speaker 1: and then we went towards the coast to a bush
Speaker 1: township called Gloucester, and to surrounding areas I think in
Speaker 1: what might be called the Upper Hunter some of it.
Speaker 1: And we were interested in what was then the pointy
Speaker 1: end of the manhunt for Australia's most wanted man. Now
Speaker 1: this guy was called Malcolm John Naden, infinite Aden. Malcolm
Speaker 1: John Naden.
Speaker 2: Was basically a fruit loop.
Speaker 1: Really, I think, although he's now serving a very long sentence,
Speaker 1: it's probable that he should be in some sort of
Speaker 1: mental institution. Malcolm John Naden wasn't in pigenous guy who
Speaker 1: came from a Dubbo. He was a strange cat, I think,
Speaker 1: all his life. And he went on the run after
Speaker 1: coming under suspicion for the violent death of a young
Speaker 1: Indigenous woman who was known to him, and also over
Speaker 1: the disappearance of his own cousin, a girl called Nolan.
Speaker 1: Her surname was Nolan. And also he was under suspicion
Speaker 1: for sexual assaults of at least one teenage girl. And
Speaker 1: so this man Naden, who was wanted over a murder,
Speaker 1: a suspected murder, and over a sexual assault. He bolted,
Speaker 1: He bolted and he went bush. Now it was a
Speaker 1: case that was strange because outside that patch of New
Speaker 1: South Wales, not many people knew about it. His victims
Speaker 1: were people sort of known to him, and the story
Speaker 1: didn't get a lot of currency until much later, when
Speaker 1: people realized this bloke has been wandering out in the countryside,
Speaker 1: living on the fat of the land, essentially, you know,
Speaker 1: hunting for his food and basically stealing food and all
Speaker 1: this sort of thing, breaking into holiday houses and farmhouses
Speaker 1: and so on, and doing the.
Speaker 2: Best he could. And he did this for years.
Speaker 1: And it might be that if he hadn't done a
Speaker 1: very rash thing, he could still have been living up
Speaker 1: in the bush. But what he did, some police went
Speaker 1: in looking for him, and he had stolen a twenty
Speaker 1: two rifle from a farmhouse and he took a shot
Speaker 1: at a policeman. I think he wounded a policeman and
Speaker 1: that wasn't good because then the New South Wales police
Speaker 1: got very very keen on finding him because once you
Speaker 1: shoot a police they take it very personally, and so
Speaker 1: they really cranked up the search. They sent in the
Speaker 1: tactical response guys and the search and rescue and helicopters
Speaker 1: and the dogs and everybody else, and the manhunt for
Speaker 1: Malcolm Naden became quite a big deal. And indeed they
Speaker 1: grabbed him, they got him, and I'm told on good
Speaker 1: authority that they could smell him before they saw him.
Speaker 1: He'd been out in the bush for months and months
Speaker 1: without any form of hygiene or washing.
Speaker 2: And he was very whiffy. Was probably a relief.
Speaker 1: For Malcolm Naden to be taken into custody and given
Speaker 1: three square meals a day and the chance to have.
Speaker 2: A bath or a shower or both.
Speaker 1: He got many, many years in jail, I think something.
Speaker 1: I think something like close to forty years. And the
Speaker 1: smart money says he's never coming out because he is
Speaker 1: one bent unit that leads us into who the final
Speaker 1: chapter of our Around the Grounds podcast today and that
Speaker 1: is the ongoing case ongoing as we talk about it now.
Speaker 2: Of Justin Ingram. Now, Justin Ingram.
Speaker 1: Is the man who is the subject of a manhunt
Speaker 1: right now in February twenty twenty six in the area outside.
Speaker 2: Lake car Galligho.
Speaker 1: Lake cark Gallagher is right out in central New South Wales,
Speaker 1: out in the dry country.
Speaker 2: It's the way out northwest of Griffith.
Speaker 1: So you're out in small town New South Wales, where
Speaker 1: the properties are very big, very vast, the populations very thin,
Speaker 1: and a local boy like Julian Ingram, who's born and
Speaker 1: bred up that way, worked as a gardener on the
Speaker 1: local council, he would be able to use his local
Speaker 1: knowledge to say one step ahead of the law. And
Speaker 1: what happened is on January the twenty second, that is
Speaker 1: just recently justin Ingram obtained a firearm. I don't think
Speaker 1: he was a registered shootor but he's out in the
Speaker 1: bush and there's plenty of guns about. He went to
Speaker 1: a properly known to him and there he shot his
Speaker 1: former fiance, twenty five year old Sophie Quinn, a young
Speaker 1: woman who was pregnant at the time of her shooting.
Speaker 1: He also shot her male friend who's with her, and
Speaker 1: he then went around to another address and shot her aunt.
Speaker 1: He shot this girl, Sophie Quinn's aunt. He went around
Speaker 1: and he shot her aunt, Narrator Quinn, who was known
Speaker 1: to him, and he also wounded a young man, I
Speaker 1: think another relative, a young man who was there at
Speaker 1: that time and who bolted but still was hit by
Speaker 1: shotgun pellets, I think, and he survived. He's out of
Speaker 1: hospital and he's okay. But that's three dead, one wounded.
Speaker 1: And then Justin Ingram, the alleged shooter in this case,
Speaker 1: escapes in his council utility.
Speaker 2: It's a white Ford.
Speaker 1: Ranger I think, with the lights on top of the roof,
Speaker 1: such as council workers use for roadworks and so on.
Speaker 1: And he's headed out into the wild blue yonder beyond
Speaker 1: Lake car Gallagher, and no one knows where he is.
Speaker 1: The police have mounted big searches, they've got helicopters, they've
Speaker 1: got the lot, they can't find him. He does have
Speaker 1: local knowledge, like Malcolm Nayden, and it could be that
Speaker 1: if he is getting some help, if he's getting the
Speaker 1: sort of help that people allege Desy Freeman got, which
Speaker 1: I don't believe Deesy Freeman did get, Justin Ingram may
Speaker 1: well have been taken out of the area by someone
Speaker 1: related to him or known to him. And he could
Speaker 1: be a long way from Lake Carl Gallagher. He might
Speaker 1: be just out in a patch of bush on a
Speaker 1: big property doing the best he can, living on rabbits,
Speaker 1: or he might be in a state by now no
Speaker 1: one knows, but there's no doubt that this year we
Speaker 1: will find out more about Justin Ingram and that he'll
Speaker 1: probably be found and like Malcolm Naden will end up
Speaker 1: facing the courts for the crimes that he is allegedly committed.
Speaker 1: So there we have it, a round up from state
Speaker 1: to state of all the current mysteries. Where's Justin, where's
Speaker 1: the little Gusslermont, the little boy in South Australia? Whose
Speaker 1: are the bones of Phillip Island? And most of all,
Speaker 1: did Desi Freeman shoot himself? Or did he hide in
Speaker 1: a mind shaft and run into a bit of poison gas?
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: Life and Crimes is a Sunday Herald Sun production for
Speaker 1: True crime Australia. Our producer is Johnty Burton. For my columns,
Speaker 1: features and more, go to Heroldsun dot com dot au,
Speaker 1: forward slash Andrew rule one word. For advertising inquiries, go
Speaker 1: to news.
Speaker 2: Podcasts sold at.
Speaker 1: News dot com dot au. That is all one word
Speaker 1: news podcasts sold And if you want further information about
Speaker 1: this episode, links are in the description. Eight