1 00:00:04,140 --> 00:00:07,920 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview, I'm Sean Aylmer. Social 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,860 Sean Aylmer: media can be a pretty unpleasant place at times, for 3 00:00:10,860 --> 00:00:14,099 Sean Aylmer: the users and the businesses trying to advertise or promote 4 00:00:14,099 --> 00:00:17,639 Sean Aylmer: their services. For the users, it can be very negative, 5 00:00:17,639 --> 00:00:21,360 Sean Aylmer: with a focus on superficial and hateful content. For advertisers, 6 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,120 Sean Aylmer: there's not a great deal of transparency, and there can be 7 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:27,269 Sean Aylmer: a lot of waste. A new platform is aiming to 8 00:00:27,270 --> 00:00:31,380 Sean Aylmer: change all of that, WeAre8, that's W- E- A- R- 9 00:00:31,679 --> 00:00:35,549 Sean Aylmer: E, numeral eight. WeAre8, all one word, has recently launched 10 00:00:35,549 --> 00:00:39,180 Sean Aylmer: in Australia, promising a platform that's free from hate, good 11 00:00:39,180 --> 00:00:41,760 Sean Aylmer: for the planet, and puts money back in the wallets 12 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,729 Sean Aylmer: of those using it. Plus it's been built by a 13 00:00:44,729 --> 00:00:48,780 Sean Aylmer: very highly respected tech entrepreneur. WeAre8 is a brainchild of Sue 14 00:00:48,809 --> 00:00:52,320 Sean Aylmer: Fennessy, the founder and former CEO of Standard Media Index, 15 00:00:52,529 --> 00:00:56,340 Sean Aylmer: the world's leading media data aggregation business. Sue is now the 16 00:00:56,340 --> 00:00:59,700 Sean Aylmer: founder and CEO of WeAre8, a supporter of this podcast, 17 00:01:00,030 --> 00:01:02,340 Sean Aylmer: and joins me from the UK. Sue, welcome to Fear 18 00:01:02,340 --> 00:01:02,849 Sean Aylmer: and Greed. 19 00:01:03,389 --> 00:01:06,179 Sue Fennessy: Thank you, Sean. Wonderful to be here, thank you. 20 00:01:06,870 --> 00:01:09,599 Sean Aylmer: There are really two elements of this that I'm keen 21 00:01:09,599 --> 00:01:12,119 Sean Aylmer: to talk to you about, from the user's perspective and 22 00:01:12,119 --> 00:01:16,890 Sean Aylmer: then from the advertiser's perspective. Let's start with the user. 23 00:01:17,490 --> 00:01:21,270 Sean Aylmer: Why develop a new platform? Because there are plenty out there. 24 00:01:22,139 --> 00:01:27,270 Sue Fennessy: Yeah. So it's funny, even when I hear the word 25 00:01:27,809 --> 00:01:31,950 Sue Fennessy: user now, because we call everyone on 8 citizens, you're 26 00:01:31,950 --> 00:01:36,300 Sue Fennessy: an 8 citizen, we're the people's platform. I was living 27 00:01:36,300 --> 00:01:38,970 Sue Fennessy: in New York for 12 years, and there was a 28 00:01:38,970 --> 00:01:43,110 Sue Fennessy: moment when I built SMI and we could see all 29 00:01:43,110 --> 00:01:49,920 Sue Fennessy: of this money going to media. And $ 117 billion last 30 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:54,990 Sue Fennessy: year, Sean, went to Facebook in ad revenue. And the 31 00:01:54,990 --> 00:01:58,890 Sue Fennessy: crazy thing is, people didn't get a cent of that. 32 00:01:59,340 --> 00:02:03,659 Sue Fennessy: So we're shoved ads, ads are constantly put in front 33 00:02:03,660 --> 00:02:07,860 Sue Fennessy: of us, and yet nothing is shared with the people. 34 00:02:07,860 --> 00:02:12,480 Sue Fennessy: So our belief is, in a world where there's an 35 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:17,520 Sue Fennessy: economic crisis, a climate crisis, a mental health crisis, of 36 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:22,319 Sue Fennessy: which social has fueled so many problems, we need to 37 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,010 Sue Fennessy: move from a world of greed to one of sharing 38 00:02:26,310 --> 00:02:32,010 Sue Fennessy: and really create abundance. So our mission became how could 39 00:02:32,010 --> 00:02:36,059 Sue Fennessy: we redirect that money that's going to Facebook back to 40 00:02:36,059 --> 00:02:40,589 Sue Fennessy: people and the causes that matter. And $ 30 million and 41 00:02:40,590 --> 00:02:44,610 Sue Fennessy: seven years later, that's what we've built. So for people, 42 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,730 Sue Fennessy: our whole mission is to make it really fun and 43 00:02:47,730 --> 00:02:51,480 Sue Fennessy: easy to make positive impact in the world through collective 44 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:55,559 Sue Fennessy: action, to get money into your wallet every time you 45 00:02:55,559 --> 00:02:58,229 Sue Fennessy: watch an ad. Because if you watch an ad on 46 00:02:58,230 --> 00:03:03,090 Sue Fennessy: 8, you watch them on your terms. So they're uncoupled 47 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,330 Sue Fennessy: from the content, you tap on it, you watch the 48 00:03:06,330 --> 00:03:09,809 Sue Fennessy: ad, answer a couple of questions, and then money goes 49 00:03:09,809 --> 00:03:14,040 Sue Fennessy: into your wallet, and donations go to charity. And then 50 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:19,560 Sue Fennessy: separately, we can see our friends, again, from October, you 51 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,579 Sue Fennessy: can see your friends in a pure friend's feed, free 52 00:03:23,580 --> 00:03:28,889 Sue Fennessy: of algorithms. Because the algorithms have actually destroyed our lives, 53 00:03:28,889 --> 00:03:34,830 Sue Fennessy: Sean. They've made people's world smaller and more isolated, and 54 00:03:34,830 --> 00:03:39,480 Sue Fennessy: take us as humans to our lowest common denominator. On 55 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,990 Sue Fennessy: 8, we want to make your worlds bigger and more 56 00:03:42,990 --> 00:03:47,610 Sue Fennessy: connected. So we have a stage where you can discover 57 00:03:47,610 --> 00:03:51,809 Sue Fennessy: amazing people to follow like you, and then you have 58 00:03:51,809 --> 00:03:55,950 Sue Fennessy: your friends feed, which is just purely your friends. You 59 00:03:55,950 --> 00:03:59,520 Sue Fennessy: see their content, when they post it, at the time 60 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:04,050 Sue Fennessy: they post it. So it's a reimagining of social, it's 61 00:04:04,050 --> 00:04:08,129 Sue Fennessy: really social, it's what social should be, with all the 62 00:04:08,130 --> 00:04:09,750 Sue Fennessy: money coming back to the people. 63 00:04:10,469 --> 00:04:12,870 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so I'm just trying to get my head around 64 00:04:12,870 --> 00:04:18,060 Sean Aylmer: this. It's an app which basically takes the big tech 65 00:04:18,060 --> 00:04:23,190 Sean Aylmer: media culture out of how people use apps. 66 00:04:23,490 --> 00:04:27,388 Sue Fennessy: I mean, the interface with Facebook really hasn't changed for 67 00:04:27,389 --> 00:04:32,940 Sue Fennessy: a long time. We've spent years reimagining that. So what 68 00:04:32,940 --> 00:04:38,100 Sue Fennessy: you're going to see in October is a reimagined social 69 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,970 Sue Fennessy: where you can discover people that you want to follow 70 00:04:42,150 --> 00:04:46,198 Sue Fennessy: in a really beautiful way, free from ads, where you 71 00:04:46,199 --> 00:04:49,890 Sue Fennessy: have your friends feed that is purely your friends. And 72 00:04:49,890 --> 00:04:53,310 Sue Fennessy: if you want to watch ads, 98% of people do, 73 00:04:53,670 --> 00:04:56,700 Sue Fennessy: because every time they watch an ad, donations go to 74 00:04:56,700 --> 00:05:01,109 Sue Fennessy: charity and that's how you redirect money to causes, but 75 00:05:01,110 --> 00:05:05,010 Sue Fennessy: money goes also into your wallet to pay your mobile 76 00:05:05,010 --> 00:05:08,160 Sue Fennessy: bill, and the little subscriptions and things in your life 77 00:05:08,670 --> 00:05:14,100 Sue Fennessy: as well. So we've inverted everything. And interestingly, we're the 78 00:05:14,190 --> 00:05:18,899 Sue Fennessy: only platform where people actually want to watch ad, they 79 00:05:18,900 --> 00:05:23,189 Sue Fennessy: want two minutes of ads a day because that's how they 80 00:05:23,190 --> 00:05:29,609 Sue Fennessy: redirect money and pay for all their little subscriptions, their 81 00:05:29,610 --> 00:05:31,680 Sue Fennessy: TV subscriptions, et cetera. 82 00:05:32,190 --> 00:05:33,719 Sean Aylmer: I'm still trying to get my head around this. How 83 00:05:33,719 --> 00:05:35,130 Sean Aylmer: did you come up with the idea? Because it does 84 00:05:35,130 --> 00:05:37,469 Sean Aylmer: very much invert the commercial model. 85 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,999 Sue Fennessy: Yeah, I mean I think it's been an evolution, Sean. 86 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:48,270 Sue Fennessy: I mean, we've had teams of behavioral scientists for years 87 00:05:48,660 --> 00:05:53,639 Sue Fennessy: working with me to reimagine what an experience could look 88 00:05:53,639 --> 00:05:58,949 Sue Fennessy: like. Because we wanted to imagine, is it possible to 89 00:05:58,949 --> 00:06:03,360 Sue Fennessy: have a social experience that is free from hate? And 90 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:09,029 Sue Fennessy: that involves AI, moderation, reporting, infrastructure, all of that. But 91 00:06:09,089 --> 00:06:14,279 Sue Fennessy: is it possible to have people feeling really good and connected 92 00:06:14,820 --> 00:06:19,140 Sue Fennessy: every day? And then is it possible to deliver someone 93 00:06:19,199 --> 00:06:23,610 Sue Fennessy: a digital ad in a way that guarantees their attention 94 00:06:23,940 --> 00:06:27,178 Sue Fennessy: but leaves them feeling really good? For us, it's all 95 00:06:27,178 --> 00:06:32,309 Sue Fennessy: about the feeling and because we're not feeling good, we're 96 00:06:32,309 --> 00:06:37,110 Sue Fennessy: not, we're feeling like users. We're not feeling like powerful 97 00:06:37,500 --> 00:06:42,630 Sue Fennessy: citizens who can change the world. And look, our bigger 98 00:06:42,630 --> 00:06:48,960 Sue Fennessy: reason is to reconnect people with themselves, with each other 99 00:06:48,990 --> 00:06:51,900 Sue Fennessy: and the planet, in eight minutes a day, so we 100 00:06:51,900 --> 00:06:53,428 Sue Fennessy: can take collective action. 101 00:06:53,699 --> 00:06:55,560 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Sue. We'll be back in a minute. 102 00:07:01,470 --> 00:07:04,710 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Sue, Fennessy, founder and CEO 103 00:07:04,889 --> 00:07:09,480 Sean Aylmer: of WeAre8. So the hate part of it. So you are 104 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:13,019 Sean Aylmer: going to ensure that it's free from hate, H- A- T- 105 00:07:13,020 --> 00:07:14,460 Sean Aylmer: E. How do you do that? 106 00:07:15,270 --> 00:07:19,350 Sue Fennessy: Yeah, so that has been an equal obsession. So we work 107 00:07:19,350 --> 00:07:25,139 Sue Fennessy: with lots of Premier League footballers, musicians, artists, actors. And 108 00:07:25,139 --> 00:07:29,280 Sue Fennessy: the hate that they have to endure is truly shocking. 109 00:07:29,430 --> 00:07:33,750 Sue Fennessy: Actually, one of the players last week told me that 110 00:07:33,810 --> 00:07:39,000 Sue Fennessy: he received 400 death threats on other platforms, and not 111 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,630 Sue Fennessy: just him but his family members, because he missed a 112 00:07:42,630 --> 00:07:47,850 Sue Fennessy: goal, which is horrific. So what we've built, firstly, it's 113 00:07:47,850 --> 00:07:51,690 Sue Fennessy: a commitment to zero tolerance. It's zero tolerance of hate. 114 00:07:52,110 --> 00:07:56,520 Sue Fennessy: You can't be anonymous. So the way that we on onboard, 115 00:07:56,580 --> 00:08:01,379 Sue Fennessy: removing anonymity is a really big thing. Then, the way 116 00:08:01,380 --> 00:08:06,749 Sue Fennessy: we've architected it, so your friends feed is private for 117 00:08:06,780 --> 00:08:10,740 Sue Fennessy: everyone. So if I'm friends with you, we're friends with each 118 00:08:10,740 --> 00:08:15,150 Sue Fennessy: other, which let's be friends, you're on 8. You can 119 00:08:15,150 --> 00:08:19,710 Sue Fennessy: see my posts and I can see yours. It's only 120 00:08:20,070 --> 00:08:23,520 Sue Fennessy: if you are verified with a golden 8 halo, that's 121 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:28,170 Sue Fennessy: our blue tick, and only then can your content be 122 00:08:28,170 --> 00:08:30,780 Sue Fennessy: seen on the stage and you can build a following. 123 00:08:31,260 --> 00:08:34,139 Sue Fennessy: So you have to be verified to be able to 124 00:08:34,139 --> 00:08:38,820 Sue Fennessy: be seen publicly. And by verifying all the talent, all 125 00:08:38,820 --> 00:08:45,660 Sue Fennessy: of the content creators, that enables us to control who 126 00:08:45,660 --> 00:08:50,700 Sue Fennessy: is seen publicly. We've got a moderation infrastructure around the 127 00:08:50,700 --> 00:08:56,280 Sue Fennessy: reporting because all 8 citizens can comment. And then we 128 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:01,259 Sue Fennessy: have reporting. And what's interesting, the tech companies hide behind 129 00:09:01,260 --> 00:09:06,330 Sue Fennessy: freedom of speech. And that is just crap honestly because 130 00:09:07,110 --> 00:09:11,460 Sue Fennessy: what they're fueling is hate speech, because they want people 131 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:19,468 Sue Fennessy: angry, fearful, scrolling longer. And we don't, we want you 132 00:09:19,590 --> 00:09:22,410 Sue Fennessy: on 8 for eight minutes a day, a couple of 133 00:09:22,410 --> 00:09:25,920 Sue Fennessy: minutes seeing your friends a couple of minutes getting inspired 134 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:30,630 Sue Fennessy: by amazing content, two minutes of collective action, two minutes 135 00:09:30,630 --> 00:09:32,789 Sue Fennessy: of watching a couple of ads, getting money in your 136 00:09:32,790 --> 00:09:37,139 Sue Fennessy: wallet, then go and live, live your life again. And so 137 00:09:37,830 --> 00:09:42,510 Sue Fennessy: it's a very different intention and architecture that the old 138 00:09:42,510 --> 00:09:46,139 Sue Fennessy: world has. I mean, I think within a year we're 139 00:09:46,139 --> 00:09:49,290 Sue Fennessy: going to be looking at that going, " It just doesn't 140 00:09:49,290 --> 00:09:52,500 Sue Fennessy: make us feel good, and we're being used." 141 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:57,030 Sean Aylmer: From an advertiser's perspective too, there must be a huge 142 00:09:57,300 --> 00:10:00,420 Sean Aylmer: incentive there to be part of this. I mean, so 143 00:10:00,420 --> 00:10:03,718 Sean Aylmer: businesses I run, the social media comments on them, which 144 00:10:03,719 --> 00:10:06,240 Sean Aylmer: are just wrong and they're false and whatnot, it can 145 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,820 Sean Aylmer: really destroy a business though, totally unfairly. 146 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:09,660 Sue Fennessy: Yeah. 147 00:10:09,660 --> 00:10:11,729 Sean Aylmer: This won't allow that then for advertisers? 148 00:10:12,690 --> 00:10:15,510 Sue Fennessy: Do you know, it's interesting, Sean, I hadn't thought of... 149 00:10:15,510 --> 00:10:21,090 Sue Fennessy: We have a cracking model for advertisers where advertisers can 150 00:10:21,090 --> 00:10:25,499 Sue Fennessy: reach citizens, citizens accept to watch the ad, they get 151 00:10:25,500 --> 00:10:29,039 Sue Fennessy: their full attention, ask a couple of questions, and they 152 00:10:29,039 --> 00:10:33,240 Sue Fennessy: build a really deep relationship. So we're getting all the 153 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:39,720 Sue Fennessy: biggest supermarket brands, Nike, all the big banks, Unilever, everyone, 154 00:10:39,780 --> 00:10:44,130 Sue Fennessy: use the ad model and get really transformational results. One 155 00:10:44,130 --> 00:10:48,479 Sue Fennessy: of our campaigns last week got 61% click- through. 156 00:10:48,719 --> 00:10:49,349 Sean Aylmer: Wow. 157 00:10:49,620 --> 00:10:50,100 Sue Fennessy: I know. 158 00:10:50,100 --> 00:10:50,400 Sean Aylmer: That's pretty good. 159 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:56,520 Sue Fennessy: It's so ridiculous that we had to get PWC to 160 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,780 Sue Fennessy: have an audit infrastructure because we couldn't report our own 161 00:11:00,780 --> 00:11:04,739 Sue Fennessy: homework. Because, for the first time, we are delivering someone 162 00:11:04,740 --> 00:11:09,210 Sue Fennessy: an ad in a way that respects them as a 163 00:11:09,420 --> 00:11:12,958 Sue Fennessy: citizen who's changing the world. I mean, the old world 164 00:11:13,350 --> 00:11:17,940 Sue Fennessy: has thought of advertising as a necessary evil. We've got 165 00:11:17,940 --> 00:11:20,639 Sue Fennessy: to jam ads in here because that's how we make 166 00:11:20,639 --> 00:11:24,478 Sue Fennessy: lots of money, but they really don't want them. Our 167 00:11:25,289 --> 00:11:29,940 Sue Fennessy: world, we see brands' power to change the world with 168 00:11:30,059 --> 00:11:32,849 Sue Fennessy: citizens because they have a lot of money. And as 169 00:11:32,849 --> 00:11:37,290 Sue Fennessy: humans, we have to buy stuff, only consciously buy stuff. 170 00:11:37,290 --> 00:11:43,680 Sue Fennessy: So we can have conscious consumers, but we can get 171 00:11:43,740 --> 00:11:46,140 Sue Fennessy: all of that money back to the people in the 172 00:11:46,140 --> 00:11:50,010 Sue Fennessy: planet. And if we come together, so we see brands 173 00:11:50,010 --> 00:11:53,218 Sue Fennessy: and advertisers as doing and bringing good in the world. 174 00:11:53,700 --> 00:11:58,559 Sue Fennessy: And once you see the good that is possible, and 175 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,830 Sue Fennessy: funnel the money back to people on the planet, good things 176 00:12:01,830 --> 00:12:07,170 Sue Fennessy: happen. But you mentioned something really important. Every brand can 177 00:12:07,170 --> 00:12:10,650 Sue Fennessy: also have an organic channel on 8. So we have 178 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:16,199 Sue Fennessy: brands like Nike and all the charities, so they can 179 00:12:16,199 --> 00:12:21,000 Sue Fennessy: build their following on WeAre8 as well and have an 180 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:25,920 Sue Fennessy: organic profile. They can bring their best content, but as 181 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:27,540 Sue Fennessy: you say, it's free of hate. 182 00:12:28,110 --> 00:12:32,340 Sean Aylmer: So Sue, it's this month, October, you're launching generally. Is 183 00:12:32,340 --> 00:12:34,559 Sean Aylmer: that right? And so to get the app, how do 184 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:35,039 Sean Aylmer: I get it? 185 00:12:35,789 --> 00:12:40,080 Sue Fennessy: App Store, Google Play Store, download the app, become an 186 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:44,189 Sue Fennessy: 8 citizen, join us in changing the world, donate your 187 00:12:44,190 --> 00:12:46,889 Sue Fennessy: earnings to all those charities that you love and care 188 00:12:46,889 --> 00:12:51,990 Sue Fennessy: about, and feel your power to change the world. Invite 189 00:12:51,990 --> 00:12:56,190 Sue Fennessy: your friends, you can share your real voice, your voice 190 00:12:56,190 --> 00:13:00,449 Sue Fennessy: really matters. I think with all of the worry in 191 00:13:00,450 --> 00:13:03,750 Sue Fennessy: the world and all the fear and all the greed, 192 00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:08,819 Sue Fennessy: and everything that's happening, we can feel pretty powerless. Well, 193 00:13:08,910 --> 00:13:12,420 Sue Fennessy: not anymore. This is the place where we come together 194 00:13:12,450 --> 00:13:13,860 Sue Fennessy: and drive real change. 195 00:13:14,190 --> 00:13:16,110 Sean Aylmer: Sue, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 196 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,390 Sue Fennessy: Thank you for having me, Sean. It's been brilliant. 197 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,718 Sean Aylmer: That was Sue Fennessy, founder and CEO of WeAre8, a 198 00:13:21,719 --> 00:13:24,389 Sean Aylmer: supporter of this podcast. This is the Fear and Greed 199 00:13:24,389 --> 00:13:26,910 Sean Aylmer: Daily interview. Join us every morning for the full episode 200 00:13:26,940 --> 00:13:30,779 Sean Aylmer: of Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm 201 00:13:30,809 --> 00:13:32,370 Sean Aylmer: Sean Aylmer, enjoy your day.