WEBVTT - Donate Life Part A 0:00:05.881 --> 0:00:07.281 Appogia production. 0:00:10.121 --> 0:00:13.521 Hi everyone, thank you for tuning back into Tenantus for Nurses. 0:00:13.601 --> 0:00:18.241 I suspec Woodbine here this season. I am so excited 0:00:18.281 --> 0:00:21.200 to announce that the podcast is being supported by Nutritia, 0:00:21.361 --> 0:00:25.761 which is a global leader in medical nutrition. They understand 0:00:25.801 --> 0:00:28.041 the needs of nurses in the nutrition space and for 0:00:28.121 --> 0:00:31.361 over one hundred and twenty five years have provided products 0:00:31.401 --> 0:00:35.681 to support child health. Some of Nutrita's pediatric brands include 0:00:35.841 --> 0:00:39.521 Neo Kate Junior for children who have food allergies and 0:00:39.561 --> 0:00:41.801 app to Grow for those fussy eaters. And those of 0:00:41.881 --> 0:00:45.681 us who have children know many kids who go through 0:00:45.721 --> 0:00:50.040 the phases of definite fussiness. For more information and resources, 0:00:50.281 --> 0:00:54.081 visit the nutritiona Pediatrics hub at nutritia dot com dot 0:00:54.121 --> 0:00:57.401 au forward slash Pediatrics. I just want to say a 0:00:57.561 --> 0:01:00.841 huge thank you to Nutritia. Their desire to support nurses 0:01:00.881 --> 0:01:04.121 is truly appreciated, and they are allowing me to continue 0:01:04.161 --> 0:01:07.001 this podcast so that we could all grow as nurses. 0:01:07.641 --> 0:01:10.640 This season, we have some amazing speakers in the pediatric 0:01:10.681 --> 0:01:13.840 space which I cannot wait to share with you all. Hi, 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:17.000 my name's Beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for nurses. 0:01:17.601 --> 0:01:21.360 I'm grateful for the person that I have the opportunity 0:01:21.441 --> 0:01:21.720 to be. 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:26.041 So I hit it and parked it for Nellie four years. 0:01:26.721 --> 0:01:28.960 We always have free will, We always get to choose. 0:01:29.041 --> 0:01:34.200 We are autonomous. Hi everyone, thank you for tuning in 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:38.241 too Tenderness for Nurses Again. Today we have a really 0:01:38.241 --> 0:01:42.080 fantastic Part A and Part B podcast. Today I am 0:01:42.161 --> 0:01:46.720 interviewing Georgia Callahan from Donate Life and she is the 0:01:46.761 --> 0:01:50.641 donation Specialist Nursing Coordinator DAN in Victoria. And then we 0:01:50.681 --> 0:01:53.160 are speaking with Justine Holloway, who is the acting Nurse 0:01:53.201 --> 0:01:57.561 Services Manager for Donate Life Victoria. Thank you Georgie for 0:01:57.601 --> 0:01:59.041 taking the time to chat with. 0:01:58.921 --> 0:02:01.601 Me today, No worry, thank you for having me. 0:02:02.121 --> 0:02:04.321 So can you just give us a little bit of 0:02:04.321 --> 0:02:08.161 background on you and your nursing career state. 0:02:09.121 --> 0:02:12.201 Yeah, so I've been a nurse for about fourteen or 0:02:12.241 --> 0:02:15.361 fifteen years now. I actually grew up in Adelaide where 0:02:15.401 --> 0:02:19.801 I did all of my undergraduate study, and part of 0:02:19.841 --> 0:02:22.921 that I really fell in love with critical care nursing. 0:02:23.201 --> 0:02:27.520 So I first started working in a small ed and 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:31.240 from that I did a bit of postgrad where they 0:02:31.641 --> 0:02:34.281 offered me the opportunity to go up to the intensive 0:02:34.361 --> 0:02:38.041 care unit to just, I suppose further develop my critical 0:02:38.081 --> 0:02:41.361 care skills and did about six weeks up there, and 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:45.121 during that time I felt quite nervous. There were lots 0:02:45.121 --> 0:02:49.041 of beats that was really scary, and wasn't quite sure 0:02:49.081 --> 0:02:51.481 if that was the place for me, and had always 0:02:51.481 --> 0:02:54.641 thought that i'd probably stay back down in emergency. And 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:56.680 then in that sort of last week, it all kind 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:59.201 of clicked for me and I just really fell in 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:03.441 love with intensive care nursing, so I did a graduate 0:03:03.481 --> 0:03:08.241 diploma in that. When decided I wanted to develop my 0:03:08.321 --> 0:03:10.960 skills in a bigger ICU that had a few different 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:13.841 specialties that we didn't have in the same way in Adelaide, 0:03:13.881 --> 0:03:16.481 which is how I ended up working at the outfit 0:03:16.641 --> 0:03:19.601 in their intensive care unit, and I started there back 0:03:19.601 --> 0:03:23.361 in twenty fifteen, and from that really just started at 0:03:23.361 --> 0:03:26.881 the bedside, predominantly working with cardiac patients, as that was 0:03:26.921 --> 0:03:29.081 a bit of a specialty in the unit I was 0:03:29.161 --> 0:03:32.321 working in in Adelaide. As a result of that, started 0:03:32.361 --> 0:03:36.161 working with some people waiting for their transplants and then 0:03:36.241 --> 0:03:40.001 after their transplant operations as well, and that was an 0:03:40.001 --> 0:03:44.241 incredibly powerful thing for me to see just how significantly 0:03:44.321 --> 0:03:47.440 people's lives could change just through the power of being 0:03:47.441 --> 0:03:51.041 a transplant recipient. Really, and then as I progressed through 0:03:51.081 --> 0:03:53.641 the ICU, I sort of started doing a bit more 0:03:53.721 --> 0:03:57.521 in charge and became an ANUM then actually ended up 0:03:57.561 --> 0:04:01.641 working as an ANAM in the trauma ICU. So during 0:04:01.801 --> 0:04:04.921 that stint, I really then got to see the other side. 0:04:05.121 --> 0:04:09.441 So patients who were admitted under very sort of unexpected 0:04:09.441 --> 0:04:12.801 and often traumatic circumstances after they'd been in accidents, and 0:04:13.161 --> 0:04:15.721 throughout their journey of care, if we were unable to 0:04:16.441 --> 0:04:18.921 get them back to a good level of health and 0:04:18.961 --> 0:04:22.440 a meaningful recovery, then unfortunately they would be transitioning to 0:04:22.601 --> 0:04:26.241 end of life care. And then from that being part 0:04:26.281 --> 0:04:30.721 of those end of life discussions, and then potential patients 0:04:30.761 --> 0:04:34.081 going for organ donation, just seeing sort of that full 0:04:34.121 --> 0:04:40.121 spectrum of that donation and transplantation journey and then really 0:04:40.561 --> 0:04:44.121 developing a passion for end of life care. And that's 0:04:44.161 --> 0:04:46.801 how I sort of then transitioned into working in organ 0:04:46.841 --> 0:04:50.681 donation as a result of that and being able to 0:04:51.081 --> 0:04:53.481 learn how to support families through a bit of a 0:04:53.521 --> 0:04:56.201 different process related to end of life care. 0:04:57.121 --> 0:05:01.281 Was that a specialized education for you to go into 0:05:01.601 --> 0:05:06.001 end of life care and into the orgation side of things, 0:05:06.201 --> 0:05:09.880 or was that just something you segued into quite seamlessly. 0:05:11.161 --> 0:05:15.601 Yeah, So there's no further sort of formalized education you 0:05:15.721 --> 0:05:19.641 do in the specialization of I suppose end of life 0:05:19.641 --> 0:05:23.081 care or organ donation in particular. It's a very much 0:05:23.401 --> 0:05:28.080 segue into that field. And then from their getting about 0:05:28.081 --> 0:05:32.601 a six month training program with Donate Life, and that 0:05:32.761 --> 0:05:36.161 really teaches you the you know, ways in which to 0:05:36.201 --> 0:05:40.281 support families and communicate in a very care and respectful 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:44.161 manner and providing them with the information they need to 0:05:44.201 --> 0:05:46.121 be able to make a decision that's right, so they 0:05:46.201 --> 0:05:48.801 loved one and their family. And then from that you 0:05:48.841 --> 0:05:51.681 know all of the other different processes and things that 0:05:51.761 --> 0:05:55.121 go into getting someone ready for an organ donation operation 0:05:55.281 --> 0:05:55.720 as well. 0:05:56.801 --> 0:06:01.001 So do you still do work in ICU or you 0:06:01.201 --> 0:06:03.001 full time with Donate Life. 0:06:03.761 --> 0:06:07.401 So I a clinicleness consultant in I FEW at the Alfred, 0:06:07.841 --> 0:06:12.281 but my specialty is organ donations, So we work for 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.401 semi clinically, I think is probably the easiest way to 0:06:15.401 --> 0:06:18.761 describe it. So we'll still look at how we can 0:06:18.801 --> 0:06:22.241 support our I few nursing and medical colleagues through the 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:24.960 end of life care processes. However, we are sort of 0:06:25.001 --> 0:06:28.921 the designated nurses who will complete the work up and 0:06:29.681 --> 0:06:33.640 information and data collection and supporting families through that organ 0:06:33.681 --> 0:06:34.881 donation process. 0:06:35.561 --> 0:06:38.641 Can you explain the process to us, because it seems 0:06:38.641 --> 0:06:41.041 like there are quite a few steps. 0:06:42.201 --> 0:06:46.081 It is quite a big process. So, for example, when 0:06:46.081 --> 0:06:49.880 I came on today, we will check our database to 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:53.401 see if we've received any referrals for any people who 0:06:53.481 --> 0:06:56.201 might be going through end of life care. All patients 0:06:56.241 --> 0:06:57.881 who are going through end of life care and an 0:06:58.041 --> 0:07:01.081 ED and ICU should get referred to donate life for 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:05.001 consideration of organ and tissue donation. If we don't have 0:07:05.161 --> 0:07:09.361 anyone sitting on our database, will attend morning meetings in 0:07:09.401 --> 0:07:12.041 the ICU to see if there's any people who will 0:07:12.081 --> 0:07:15.161 potentially be gong for end of life care. If we 0:07:15.201 --> 0:07:18.561 do have referrals, will then be liaising closely with the 0:07:18.801 --> 0:07:22.561 ic bedside nurses, the medical teams and any allied health 0:07:22.641 --> 0:07:25.521 who are relevant to the patient's care just to see 0:07:25.561 --> 0:07:30.561 where really the patients in regards to their stability and 0:07:30.601 --> 0:07:34.201 then also more importantly, where the family's at in regards 0:07:34.241 --> 0:07:37.921 to the prognosis of their loved one. We would never 0:07:37.961 --> 0:07:42.441 get involved in any conversations around organ donation unless a 0:07:42.481 --> 0:07:45.281 family were accepting a end of life care, just because 0:07:45.281 --> 0:07:47.361 we know that that would be quite damaging and traumatic 0:07:47.361 --> 0:07:50.641 to families to be raising this as an option when 0:07:50.641 --> 0:07:54.600 they're not accepting of that transition of that active care 0:07:54.681 --> 0:07:57.961 into more of one of comfort and dignity through palliative 0:07:58.041 --> 0:08:02.721 sort of pathways. So if a family were ready to 0:08:02.801 --> 0:08:04.921 sort of hear about the next steps in their love 0:08:05.081 --> 0:08:09.280 one's care, we would then go into a family meeting 0:08:09.881 --> 0:08:13.241 with the medical team, the bedside nurse. Sometimes we'll have 0:08:13.361 --> 0:08:18.041 social work, sometimes we'll have interpreters if needed, and we 0:08:18.081 --> 0:08:21.281 will meet with a patient's family and from that we 0:08:21.321 --> 0:08:26.441 will gain a confirmation that they're understanding of transitioning to 0:08:26.521 --> 0:08:29.641 end of life care. And then from that, when they're ready, 0:08:29.841 --> 0:08:33.761 I will be introduced as a nurse with a predominantly 0:08:34.001 --> 0:08:36.921 really to talk families through what those next steps will be, 0:08:37.721 --> 0:08:40.281 and from that we really try and find out what's 0:08:40.321 --> 0:08:43.401 going to be important to that patient and their family, 0:08:43.881 --> 0:08:46.801 So if they have any spiritual or religious belief, if 0:08:46.801 --> 0:08:49.761 there's any other important family members or friends who need 0:08:49.841 --> 0:08:53.361 to come and see the patient in the ICU, and 0:08:53.561 --> 0:08:56.241 once we've ascertained that we're meeting all of the other 0:08:56.281 --> 0:08:58.801 needs of not only the patient but their family, I 0:08:58.841 --> 0:09:02.721 will then provide them with some information about organ donation 0:09:03.721 --> 0:09:07.001 and then from that there any questions that families may 0:09:07.041 --> 0:09:10.041 have to help them make that decision, and part of 0:09:10.081 --> 0:09:13.001 my role as well that I will check the Australian 0:09:13.041 --> 0:09:16.201 Organ Donor Register as well, and if someone was registered, 0:09:16.641 --> 0:09:19.641 we would share that information with the family. Conversely, even 0:09:19.841 --> 0:09:23.641 if they had registered their decline for donation, we would 0:09:23.641 --> 0:09:27.521 be quite transparent and open with families through that. But essentially, 0:09:27.561 --> 0:09:30.081 if a family is open to exploring organ donation for 0:09:30.121 --> 0:09:32.641 their loved one, we would then sit down with them 0:09:32.641 --> 0:09:35.761 and in more detail provide them with information about what 0:09:35.801 --> 0:09:39.161 the organ donation process looks like, the organs we think 0:09:39.201 --> 0:09:42.401 they loved one may potentially be able to donate, and 0:09:42.441 --> 0:09:44.881 then from that we do really detailed made a cool 0:09:45.001 --> 0:09:49.401 questionnaire about their medical and social and lifestyle history, and 0:09:49.441 --> 0:09:52.001 then we really start to collate a lot of information 0:09:52.121 --> 0:09:55.441 about their loved ones health. We'll do some routine bloods 0:09:55.481 --> 0:09:59.921 that screen for viral illness and any things like hepatitis, HIV, 0:10:00.641 --> 0:10:04.121 anything that could be transmissible to a recipient. If we 0:10:04.241 --> 0:10:07.641 discover anything that's an area of concern, we'll liaise with 0:10:07.721 --> 0:10:12.081 medical specialists just to ensure that donation and transplantation is 0:10:12.081 --> 0:10:15.441 safe to proceed, and then from that we'll start talking 0:10:15.481 --> 0:10:18.841 to transplant units to i suppose find the best match 0:10:18.881 --> 0:10:23.801 recipients for this potential donor. Then from that we will 0:10:24.201 --> 0:10:27.121 liaise with the family very closely, and then we would 0:10:27.241 --> 0:10:30.601 arrange a time essentially for the patient to go for 0:10:30.641 --> 0:10:34.761 their donation operation, and then from that we would be 0:10:34.921 --> 0:10:37.401 with the patient in that operation as well, still caring 0:10:37.441 --> 0:10:41.761 for the patient and then ensuring all due processes followed 0:10:42.281 --> 0:10:45.921 and that final check sort of in the donation safe 0:10:45.961 --> 0:10:49.281 and transplantation safe to proceed, and then we share that 0:10:49.401 --> 0:10:53.641 information and anatomy and things like that with the transplant units, 0:10:53.641 --> 0:10:57.201 and then we make sure that those life changing organs 0:10:57.281 --> 0:10:59.961 are able to get to the transplant centers as soon 0:11:00.001 --> 0:11:03.161 as possible, just to ensure the best possible outcomes for 0:11:03.321 --> 0:11:05.921 the recipients at the other end. And then we do 0:11:06.001 --> 0:11:07.921 follow up with the family down the track and things 0:11:07.961 --> 0:11:10.761 like that. But in a nutshell, that's probably a very 0:11:11.241 --> 0:11:14.401 a bruised version of what we do when we involved 0:11:14.401 --> 0:11:16.321 in someone going for organ donation. 0:11:17.081 --> 0:11:21.761 Who actually initiates a conversation with the families. 0:11:22.081 --> 0:11:25.321 Generally that will be us. So what I do as 0:11:25.361 --> 0:11:31.681 a donation specialist, we will provide family generally about the 0:11:31.761 --> 0:11:34.921 fact that their loved one is in intensive care on 0:11:35.721 --> 0:11:38.641 breathing machines, ventilators and are being supported that they may 0:11:38.681 --> 0:11:41.321 be in the rare position to help others through organ donation. 0:11:42.201 --> 0:11:45.081 And then from that it's really how we can then 0:11:45.121 --> 0:11:48.041 in a supportive and caring way, provide information to that 0:11:48.121 --> 0:11:51.081 patient's family so they're able to make an enduring decision 0:11:51.201 --> 0:11:53.641 for their loved one. 0:11:53.041 --> 0:11:55.521 On the whole. What is the response when you do 0:11:55.641 --> 0:11:56.841 go into a meeting like this. 0:11:57.961 --> 0:12:01.801 I think more often than not, is we wouldn't know 0:12:01.801 --> 0:12:04.281 what our loved one would want. You know, we never 0:12:04.361 --> 0:12:07.961 spoke about. And I think that's a really normal reaction 0:12:08.281 --> 0:12:11.561 for families to have. I think a lot of the 0:12:11.641 --> 0:12:14.601 time when people get admitted to the intensive care unit, 0:12:15.121 --> 0:12:21.441 it's under quite unexpected and sometimes traumatic circumstances, and when 0:12:21.441 --> 0:12:24.841 your otherwives fit and well, it's just not something you 0:12:24.881 --> 0:12:27.361 would ever see happening to you or your loved ones. 0:12:27.441 --> 0:12:31.401 So it's then how we can acknowledge and normalize that 0:12:31.561 --> 0:12:34.681 for families that it is okay not to know, but 0:12:36.161 --> 0:12:39.521 it's about then how we can provide information to them 0:12:39.801 --> 0:12:42.921 to help try and have an informed decision and enduring 0:12:43.041 --> 0:12:45.641 decisions for that family. 0:12:45.801 --> 0:12:49.481 In Victoria, I mean astray wide, there's the option for 0:12:49.481 --> 0:12:52.761 people to put their name down to be an organ donor. 0:12:53.361 --> 0:12:56.841 How uncommon is it that people do that? 0:12:58.161 --> 0:13:02.281 Yeah, it's pretty uncommon actual effect. So we know that 0:13:02.561 --> 0:13:07.281 the majority of Australians do support all donation, and we 0:13:07.361 --> 0:13:10.841 know that the national average is about thirty six percent 0:13:10.881 --> 0:13:14.281 of people have actually taken that step to register their 0:13:14.321 --> 0:13:17.681 wish on the Australian organ don't register and even in 0:13:17.761 --> 0:13:20.481 Victoria that's even lower than the national stent. So I 0:13:20.481 --> 0:13:23.921 think we're seeing at about twenty five or twenty three 0:13:23.961 --> 0:13:27.961 percent actually. So we know that when I've spoken with 0:13:28.041 --> 0:13:30.721 families who have had a loved one who has registered 0:13:30.761 --> 0:13:34.161 their wishes, you can just see a weight spin lifted 0:13:34.201 --> 0:13:37.561 from their shoulders. That it then the burden of trying 0:13:37.561 --> 0:13:40.361 to make quite a big decision on behalf of their 0:13:40.401 --> 0:13:43.921 loved one. It really becomes more empowering to families. And 0:13:43.961 --> 0:13:46.241 then it's how can we help our loved ones fulfill 0:13:46.321 --> 0:13:51.921 that wish? And it's just a very different conversation where 0:13:52.321 --> 0:13:55.281 I think families feel quite proud that their loved one 0:13:55.321 --> 0:13:58.241 has taken the time and it's then for them to 0:13:58.281 --> 0:14:00.561 be able to help fulfill that for them as part 0:14:00.601 --> 0:14:01.681 of their end of life care. 0:14:02.401 --> 0:14:05.561 Yeah, I think it's very important. I've certainly put my 0:14:05.961 --> 0:14:08.921 wishes down and we've discussed it previously on the podcast 0:14:09.001 --> 0:14:12.481 for people to do that, because we actually have had 0:14:12.521 --> 0:14:15.561 a couple of recipients that organ donation has saved their 0:14:15.601 --> 0:14:20.401 life on the podcast and they are truly truly grateful. 0:14:21.241 --> 0:14:23.721 So I actually, after speaking with one of them, went 0:14:23.761 --> 0:14:27.241 home and checked that it was current and that I 0:14:27.281 --> 0:14:30.481 definitely had done it. So those of you who are 0:14:30.561 --> 0:14:35.041 listening and haven't checked, how would they checked Georgie to 0:14:35.041 --> 0:14:37.081 make sure that they're on the register. 0:14:38.161 --> 0:14:40.481 Yeah, I think the easiest way is to go to 0:14:40.521 --> 0:14:43.761 the Donate Life website and then from there you're able 0:14:43.801 --> 0:14:46.361 to see if you're registered and if you're not, it 0:14:46.441 --> 0:14:49.321 also sends you to a link where you're able to 0:14:49.361 --> 0:14:51.441 then sign up on the register and all you need 0:14:51.521 --> 0:14:54.041 is your Medicare card, So it is quite easy to do, 0:14:54.161 --> 0:14:57.321 and yeah, you can even do it through the Medicare app, 0:14:57.561 --> 0:15:00.561 and yeah the donate Life website which is Donatelife dot 0:15:00.841 --> 0:15:05.001 dot au. But then I would also then encourage people 0:15:05.241 --> 0:15:08.321 to talk to your families about the fact that, hey, 0:15:08.561 --> 0:15:11.801 this is what I've done today, because it is surprising 0:15:12.401 --> 0:15:16.081 that people, I suppose, don't assume that your family know 0:15:16.161 --> 0:15:19.441 what you want. Speaking from personal experience as a nurse, 0:15:20.121 --> 0:15:23.201 when I had signed up many years ago on the register, 0:15:23.841 --> 0:15:26.241 I remember telling my parents at dinner because I was 0:15:26.281 --> 0:15:30.041 still living at home, and my mum, who was also 0:15:30.121 --> 0:15:33.081 a nurse, was really surprised that I had made that 0:15:33.161 --> 0:15:37.321 decision in my early twenties, and then just seeing how 0:15:37.761 --> 0:15:41.521 her perception had then shifted to be like, oh, wow, okay, 0:15:41.641 --> 0:15:45.281 I understand why you would do that. So even from 0:15:45.481 --> 0:15:48.241 a family of healthcare professionals, it was still a bit 0:15:48.241 --> 0:15:51.321 of a shock to my family. So I think, you know, 0:15:51.481 --> 0:15:54.121 never assume, and it is a bit of an awkward 0:15:54.201 --> 0:15:57.681 conversation to have sometimes because it sometimes does feel like 0:15:57.681 --> 0:16:00.881 it's coming out of left field, and we honestly hope 0:16:00.921 --> 0:16:04.401 your family never has to make those decisions, but it's 0:16:04.481 --> 0:16:07.321 just that piece of mind knowing that if Heaven forbid, 0:16:07.321 --> 0:16:09.481 the worst thing were to happen, that your family would 0:16:09.521 --> 0:16:10.841 know what your wishes were. 0:16:11.041 --> 0:16:15.761 Absolutely. We had Mary Lee Miller spoke on our podcast 0:16:15.961 --> 0:16:20.401 and her son Cole was killed with a coward's punch 0:16:20.641 --> 0:16:25.201 here in the valley and she tells the story, and 0:16:25.241 --> 0:16:27.881 she told it on the podcast how she was driving 0:16:27.921 --> 0:16:32.121 down from the coast and she knew he had passed. 0:16:32.241 --> 0:16:35.041 She just had this feeling, and she was a nicer 0:16:35.121 --> 0:16:38.641 U nurse and she just knew that they had to 0:16:38.681 --> 0:16:45.201 donate his organs and they did, and it does give 0:16:45.241 --> 0:16:48.721 them comfort to know that he's living on in other 0:16:48.801 --> 0:16:53.281 people and has saved other people. And you wouldn't wish 0:16:53.721 --> 0:16:59.161 that on any family, on anyone ever, never, But how 0:17:00.281 --> 0:17:06.481 brave was that family and she he speaks so highly 0:17:06.721 --> 0:17:09.841 of the whole process of the organ donation and how 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:14.640 respectful everyone was here at the hospital and in Brisbane, 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:19.041 and that he lives on and I do believe it's 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:20.640 a source of comfort for. 0:17:20.521 --> 0:17:25.321 Her And that's something that we do here from families. 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.481 One of our colleagues her role is purely to support 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.480 families who have had a loved one become an organ donor, 0:17:32.120 --> 0:17:35.840 and we hear quite regularly that obviously it doesn't take 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:38.400 away the awful grief that they feel for the loss 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:42.360 of their loved one, often in very tragic circumstances, but 0:17:42.521 --> 0:17:45.041 a lot of families feel proud in the fact that 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:47.281 they know that their loved one has been able to 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:52.321 help other people and help prevent other families from, I suppose, 0:17:52.360 --> 0:17:55.080 feeling what they're feeling and losing a loved one through 0:17:55.120 --> 0:18:01.080 the life changing power of organ transplantations. So I think 0:18:01.120 --> 0:18:04.361 I agree with you, Beckett. You never wish this upon anyone, 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:10.360 and you really don't realish having these conversations, But to 0:18:10.441 --> 0:18:13.121 seeing the power for families to be able to make 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:16.281 that decision for their loved one is pretty incredible. And 0:18:16.281 --> 0:18:19.680 how selfless they are in wanting to help others in 0:18:19.721 --> 0:18:22.520 the midst of their own very real, very raw grief 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:26.921 is something that I think is just such a uniquely 0:18:27.561 --> 0:18:29.681 special part of the job that I do on It 0:18:29.681 --> 0:18:32.001 feels like a true privilege to be able to support 0:18:32.041 --> 0:18:35.760 these families in whatever way we can through this process 0:18:36.041 --> 0:18:36.401 for them. 0:18:36.801 --> 0:18:40.680 It is such a privilege, And there's so many parts 0:18:40.721 --> 0:18:44.480 to nursing that ask such a privilege. I can just 0:18:44.521 --> 0:18:47.241 tell by talking to you that you're an exceptionally empathetic 0:18:47.360 --> 0:18:53.680 kind person that has its own problems. How do you 0:18:53.761 --> 0:18:58.360 look after yourself like there must be some stories or 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:03.641 conversations with people that really stand out for you. How 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:06.921 do you deep and look after yourself and not get 0:19:06.921 --> 0:19:08.281 burnt out doing what you do? 0:19:09.681 --> 0:19:13.441 Yeah, it's an interesting one because I think I had 0:19:13.481 --> 0:19:16.361 actually over COVID in a few years before, was working 0:19:16.481 --> 0:19:19.200 in some nursing management roles which had burnt me out 0:19:19.241 --> 0:19:23.601 in some pretty significant ways, and really then had gravitated 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:26.640 back to this role that I'm doing now because I 0:19:26.721 --> 0:19:31.201 needed to have that truly fulfilling aspect of my role 0:19:31.241 --> 0:19:34.481 and being able to support families. But I do acknowledge 0:19:34.521 --> 0:19:39.321 that this is a pretty emotionally fatiguing job at times 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:44.041 when you are having end of life conversations, not quite daily, 0:19:44.120 --> 0:19:49.561 but pretty frequently. I think for us as donor coordinators, 0:19:50.041 --> 0:19:54.361 we're a pretty small, tight knit group, so we are 0:19:54.561 --> 0:19:57.041 pretty good at reaching out to one another to just 0:19:57.481 --> 0:20:02.601 debrief talk through some particularly tough cases that we've been 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:05.961 involved in. And I'm pretty lucky my best friend lives 0:20:05.961 --> 0:20:09.561 a kay up the road for me, so there's often 0:20:09.921 --> 0:20:12.321 a walk to just get some fresh air to just 0:20:12.360 --> 0:20:15.761 have a chat and just take a step back from everything. 0:20:15.961 --> 0:20:18.880 And it sounds a bit cliche, but it is, you know, 0:20:19.001 --> 0:20:22.281 needing to refill that cup, so you know, whether it's 0:20:22.321 --> 0:20:25.360 then just cooking a really nice meal for myself. So 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:29.041 I'm almost like physically nourishing myself to then try and 0:20:29.041 --> 0:20:33.561 then emotionally kind of nourish myself as well. And I 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:36.360 think really to just be able to lean into those 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:39.600 really important friendships and relationships you have outside of work, 0:20:40.201 --> 0:20:43.160 your family, your friends, and then also I think his 0:20:43.281 --> 0:20:46.680 nurses just regular and you'll leave. I think that that 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:49.961 is just something that we are probably not good at 0:20:50.001 --> 0:20:53.281 doing that. I know my friends who are nurses certainly 0:20:53.321 --> 0:20:56.240 feel that at times you need to really savor lya 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:59.761 for something big and amazing. But it's really about how 0:20:59.801 --> 0:21:02.840 can we incrementally take some leave to just take a breath, 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:05.561 have a bit of a reset, and then prevent that 0:21:05.681 --> 0:21:09.041 significant burnout from happening. Because all of the people I 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:11.281 know who do this job, we agree that it's an 0:21:11.321 --> 0:21:14.920 incredibly special job to have, but we need to recognize 0:21:14.961 --> 0:21:18.600 when we are potentially feeling that burnout creeping in, and 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:21.080 then how we can sort of stop it from becoming 0:21:21.360 --> 0:21:23.921 a full blown dramatic theme for us. 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:28.921 Yeah, look it's real Georgie. And the research is there 0:21:29.001 --> 0:21:31.680 that doing what you do, like catching up with a 0:21:31.681 --> 0:21:35.120 friend and going for a walk outside, that's really important. 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:39.001 The fresh air, it's grounding, it's quite significant. It's a 0:21:39.041 --> 0:21:42.001 difference that makes And the other big research is having 0:21:42.041 --> 0:21:44.401 something to look forward to, having a holiday to look 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:46.960 forward to, you know, and what do they say you 0:21:47.001 --> 0:21:51.880 should be rebooking your next holiday before you've completed the 0:21:51.921 --> 0:21:55.920 current holiday because it actually fills your cup, gives you 0:21:56.001 --> 0:21:59.241 something to look forward to and it's like a goal. 0:21:59.481 --> 0:22:04.441 I suppose that you're working towards. Do you look after 0:22:04.521 --> 0:22:07.201 children in your specialty? Is that only adults? 0:22:07.360 --> 0:22:11.881 We sometimes will so even though I'm based at the Alfred, 0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:16.120 if we're on call, we will service the whole Staates Victorious, 0:22:16.201 --> 0:22:20.281 so that will encompass the Royal Children's Hospital and the 0:22:20.360 --> 0:22:23.961 Monash Children's as well. There are two main pediatric centers 0:22:24.001 --> 0:22:27.281 here in Melbourne, so there are times we will care 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:33.561 for pediatric patients and that's pretty form just. I think 0:22:34.120 --> 0:22:37.241 it always really sort of hits you in the emotions, 0:22:37.241 --> 0:22:40.481 probably a little bit harder than other cases at times, 0:22:41.041 --> 0:22:43.360 and then it then probably becomes a bit of a 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:46.801 debrief or we'll do case reviews together to just be 0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:50.200 able to talk through those cases in particular. And we 0:22:50.281 --> 0:22:55.200 have an amazing pediatric nurse specialist who really tries to 0:22:55.921 --> 0:22:57.920 care for us and as well as you know, the 0:22:58.001 --> 0:23:01.161 patients and the families within her unit as well. And 0:23:01.201 --> 0:23:03.600 that's like a really great resource to have in having 0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:08.920 our colleague mail pediatric specialistners because coming from the adult field, 0:23:09.481 --> 0:23:12.960 little people is something that is probably scary for me. 0:23:13.001 --> 0:23:15.480 When I see them in a hospital bed, particularly one 0:23:15.521 --> 0:23:17.521 who's gone through end of life care, I think it 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:20.801 becomes very emotional. And then how we care for those 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:24.120 parents any other sort of family members as well within 0:23:24.160 --> 0:23:28.521 that space is emotionally pretty taxing when you. 0:23:28.521 --> 0:23:30.680 Go in and chat with a family. And this is 0:23:30.681 --> 0:23:33.400 going to seem like a really dumb question, because I'm 0:23:33.441 --> 0:23:36.840 thinking of myself, here, are you allowed to cry? 0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:40.680 I think so. I don't actually think I've cried in 0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:43.961 a meeting with a family. I've certainly had a few 0:23:44.001 --> 0:23:46.960