1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,540 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:06,830 --> 00:00:09,160 Sean Aylmer: I've spoken over the last couple of weeks about some 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,570 Sean Aylmer: of the major changes in equity markets with different sectors, 4 00:00:12,570 --> 00:00:15,530 Sean Aylmer: rising and falling, and the ranking of some of Australia's 5 00:00:15,530 --> 00:00:19,640 Sean Aylmer: biggest companies moving around. At the same time, investors are dealing 6 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,910 Sean Aylmer: with reopening economies, the threat of inflation and an almighty dispute 7 00:00:24,110 --> 00:00:27,700 Sean Aylmer: over whether cryptocurrency should be part of portfolios. It's why 8 00:00:27,700 --> 00:00:30,880 Sean Aylmer: I'm always saying it's worth speaking to a financial planner. 9 00:00:31,420 --> 00:00:33,390 Sean Aylmer: More broadly though, I wanted to get a feel for 10 00:00:33,390 --> 00:00:36,400 Sean Aylmer: what lies ahead for investors. Matthew Drennan is the head 11 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,810 Sean Aylmer: of savings and investments for Zurich Australia. He oversees the 12 00:00:39,810 --> 00:00:43,310 Sean Aylmer: group's investments business, comprising 10 funds with just under $3 13 00:00:43,310 --> 00:00:47,129 Sean Aylmer: billion in assets under management. Matthew, welcome to Fear and Greed. 14 00:00:47,510 --> 00:00:47,631 Matthew Drennan: Thank you, Sean. 15 00:00:47,631 --> 00:00:52,220 Sean Aylmer: I am a big advocate of people getting good advice. I 16 00:00:52,220 --> 00:00:54,540 Sean Aylmer: know that's something you feel quite strongly about too. 17 00:00:54,950 --> 00:00:57,810 Matthew Drennan: Yeah, no, that's right. I mean our whole business really 18 00:00:57,810 --> 00:01:02,990 Matthew Drennan: is predicated around dealing with financial planners and that's by 19 00:01:02,990 --> 00:01:07,020 Matthew Drennan: far and away our biggest distribution channel for all our funds. 20 00:01:07,810 --> 00:01:12,039 Matthew Drennan: Our belief is that, look, super is a very complex area, 21 00:01:12,130 --> 00:01:16,600 Matthew Drennan: as is life insurance. As needs change, as people progress 22 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,289 Matthew Drennan: through their life stages. And to get advice is really 23 00:01:20,290 --> 00:01:24,730 Matthew Drennan: important to navigate that landscape I think. Although, there are 24 00:01:24,730 --> 00:01:26,590 Matthew Drennan: some challenges in terms of that. 25 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,209 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. If we go into that, I mean, it's been 26 00:01:29,209 --> 00:01:31,930 Sean Aylmer: brought out in the last week or so, the (Australian) Financial Review 27 00:01:31,930 --> 00:01:34,459 Sean Aylmer: had a wealth summit in the last couple of weeks. 28 00:01:34,459 --> 00:01:35,690 Sean Aylmer: And one of the things that did come out of 29 00:01:35,690 --> 00:01:40,770 Sean Aylmer: that really clearly is that challenge between cost of financial advice. 30 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,520 Sean Aylmer: If it costs $ 5, 000 upfront to go and see 31 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,670 Sean Aylmer: a financial advisor, people are baulking at that. But if 32 00:01:46,670 --> 00:01:48,840 Sean Aylmer: I'm a financial advisor, I'm running a small business, I 33 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,320 Sean Aylmer: actually need that money up front to run the business. Now, personally, 34 00:01:52,650 --> 00:01:54,750 Sean Aylmer: and this is very much me, I've never been against 35 00:01:54,750 --> 00:01:57,700 Sean Aylmer: trailing commissions, believe it or not, or commissions of some sort. 36 00:01:58,180 --> 00:02:02,880 Sean Aylmer: How do we somehow solve that problem so not just the wealthy, 37 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,050 Sean Aylmer: but also people with middle incomes and lower incomes can 38 00:02:06,050 --> 00:02:06,960 Sean Aylmer: afford advice? 39 00:02:07,650 --> 00:02:10,389 Matthew Drennan: Yeah, look, it is the big challenge of our time. 40 00:02:10,389 --> 00:02:13,060 Matthew Drennan: And a lot of it comes out of, I think, 41 00:02:13,250 --> 00:02:16,389 Matthew Drennan: some pretty stiff regulation and on the back of the 42 00:02:16,389 --> 00:02:20,160 Matthew Drennan: royal commission. But we are seeing as you say, a 43 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:24,560 Matthew Drennan: need to get an upfront payment to really cover putting 44 00:02:24,570 --> 00:02:27,100 Matthew Drennan: together the statement of advice, which you know is quite 45 00:02:27,100 --> 00:02:30,220 Matthew Drennan: a complex process. I think some of the things that we are 46 00:02:30,410 --> 00:02:34,450 Matthew Drennan: seeing at the moment is that unfortunately, because of the regulation, 47 00:02:34,450 --> 00:02:37,480 Matthew Drennan: it's moved down a pretty binary route, of you either 48 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,540 Matthew Drennan: go the full advice route, which is very expensive, or 49 00:02:40,540 --> 00:02:43,910 Matthew Drennan: you just don't get advice. Now, things that have developed 50 00:02:43,910 --> 00:02:48,180 Matthew Drennan: in recent times through artificial intelligence, there's robo -advice and 51 00:02:48,180 --> 00:02:51,230 Matthew Drennan: so on, which is obviously a lot cheaper, but it 52 00:02:51,230 --> 00:02:53,959 Matthew Drennan: only gets you so far. And it really doesn't give 53 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,549 Matthew Drennan: you the depth and the personal advice that you need. 54 00:02:58,150 --> 00:03:01,030 Matthew Drennan: I think it will be useful though, to use that 55 00:03:01,030 --> 00:03:05,580 Matthew Drennan: artificial intelligence to really improve the preparation of things like 56 00:03:05,580 --> 00:03:09,329 Matthew Drennan: a statement of advice document, which would reduce the time 57 00:03:09,330 --> 00:03:12,209 Matthew Drennan: that financial planners have to spend and obviously, the cost 58 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,600 Matthew Drennan: in terms of doing that. So that's one route that 59 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,210 Matthew Drennan: I think is a potential to improve what we're seeing 60 00:03:18,210 --> 00:03:21,480 Matthew Drennan: in that area. We have lost a lot of advisors, 61 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,880 Matthew Drennan: particularly in the risk area, so life insurance and like. 62 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,950 Matthew Drennan: And we're going to need to rebuild that structure. But ultimately, 63 00:03:29,250 --> 00:03:31,690 Matthew Drennan: we have to get the cost of that down because 64 00:03:32,020 --> 00:03:36,510 Matthew Drennan: we're in a situation now where only a small percentage, 65 00:03:36,510 --> 00:03:39,680 Matthew Drennan: really maybe a quarter of the population are actually getting advice. 66 00:03:39,790 --> 00:03:44,360 Matthew Drennan: And you could arguably say that those that are seeking 67 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,400 Matthew Drennan: advice who can afford advice are probably those that least need it. 68 00:03:49,270 --> 00:03:50,870 Matthew Drennan: It really is a conundrum at the moment. 69 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,000 Sean Aylmer: I always remember it was actually the global financial crisis 70 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,580 Sean Aylmer: and I had my own DIY fund at the time, which 71 00:03:56,580 --> 00:04:00,640 Sean Aylmer: I don't anymore. And my advisor which I used, rang 72 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,390 Sean Aylmer: me and said it was actually ANZ were issuing capital 73 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:08,150 Sean Aylmer: at a huge discount. And him ringing me, that one 74 00:04:08,150 --> 00:04:11,640 Sean Aylmer: phone call paid because obviously, the share price then went 75 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,650 Sean Aylmer: up soon afterwards and I made that money on that. 76 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,010 Sean Aylmer: That one phone call from him made me the cost 77 00:04:19,270 --> 00:04:21,400 Sean Aylmer: that I had to pay up front at the time. And 78 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,820 Sean Aylmer: that's when I really realized that's why a financial advisor 79 00:04:24,820 --> 00:04:26,860 Sean Aylmer: actually makes you money, not loses you money. 80 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:31,620 Matthew Drennan: Look, I think that's a very good point and people need to bring that into perspective in 81 00:04:31,620 --> 00:04:34,950 Matthew Drennan: terms of what is it costing me, but what do 82 00:04:34,950 --> 00:04:37,330 Matthew Drennan: I actually save? Like I said, I mean the regulatory 83 00:04:37,330 --> 00:04:41,700 Matthew Drennan: framework is quite difficult to navigate. You don't want to 84 00:04:41,730 --> 00:04:44,179 Matthew Drennan: be in a situation where you get, for example, tax 85 00:04:44,180 --> 00:04:47,880 Matthew Drennan: penalties or you are investing in things that you really 86 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,920 Matthew Drennan: don't understand. And so, that advice is really critical. And 87 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,029 Matthew Drennan: if you do the numbers over the long term, you 88 00:04:55,029 --> 00:04:58,640 Matthew Drennan: will find that a good financial advisor will be able 89 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,730 Matthew Drennan: to actually earn their keep very easily in terms of 90 00:05:01,730 --> 00:05:02,970 Matthew Drennan: what they provide for you. 91 00:05:03,510 --> 00:05:06,560 Sean Aylmer: Yep. Yep. Stay with me, Matthew. We will be back in 92 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:06,680 Sean Aylmer: a minute. 93 00:05:11,740 --> 00:05:14,930 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Matthew Drennan, Head of Savings Investments for 94 00:05:14,930 --> 00:05:19,230 Sean Aylmer: Zurich Australia. Matthew, let's move on to equities. Broadly speaking, 95 00:05:19,230 --> 00:05:21,470 Sean Aylmer: what's the outlook for the local market, do you think, 96 00:05:21,470 --> 00:05:23,970 Sean Aylmer: in the next three to six months onto 12 months? 97 00:05:24,330 --> 00:05:26,130 Matthew Drennan: Yeah. Look, it's a good question. We've had a cracking 98 00:05:26,130 --> 00:05:29,880 Matthew Drennan: run obviously over the last 12 months or even a 99 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,220 Matthew Drennan: bit longer. And the big question is obviously, well, is 100 00:05:33,220 --> 00:05:37,020 Matthew Drennan: that going to continue? Certainly, our view is that we are going to 101 00:05:37,020 --> 00:05:40,370 Matthew Drennan: see a gentler up trend, but a continued up trend 102 00:05:40,370 --> 00:05:43,159 Matthew Drennan: within equities. And the main reason for that is a 103 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,300 Matthew Drennan: couple of things, I suppose. Weight of money arguments, to 104 00:05:46,300 --> 00:05:49,800 Matthew Drennan: some extent where if you are not investing in equities as a 105 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,130 Matthew Drennan: big portion of your portfolio, where else are you going 106 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,839 Matthew Drennan: to put it? You're not earning any great returns out 107 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:59,109 Matthew Drennan: of fixed interest or term deposits and the like, even 108 00:05:59,110 --> 00:06:02,160 Matthew Drennan: though rates have moved up a little. And I guess 109 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,120 Matthew Drennan: that's the other thing that worries people is, we are 110 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,140 Matthew Drennan: starting to see some evidence of inflation coming through in 111 00:06:08,140 --> 00:06:11,330 Matthew Drennan: a number of countries, not just here. And interest rates are, 112 00:06:11,770 --> 00:06:14,620 Matthew Drennan: certainly in the bond market, moving up. Although central banks 113 00:06:14,620 --> 00:06:18,099 Matthew Drennan: are indicating here that they're not looking at raising rates 114 00:06:18,180 --> 00:06:21,150 Matthew Drennan: anytime soon. But I don't think the rate rise that 115 00:06:21,150 --> 00:06:23,700 Matthew Drennan: we've seen to date and what we're likely to get is 116 00:06:23,700 --> 00:06:26,010 Matthew Drennan: going to be enough to derail that general up trend 117 00:06:26,010 --> 00:06:27,580 Matthew Drennan: that we expect in equities over the next 12 months. 118 00:06:28,980 --> 00:06:31,870 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Whereabouts do you think the best opportunities are? 119 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,680 Matthew Drennan: Yeah. Look, I think it's important to be selective. I 120 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,930 Matthew Drennan: think there's opportunities in a number of areas. If you 121 00:06:39,930 --> 00:06:43,700 Matthew Drennan: look at things like the REITs, the property through Real 122 00:06:43,700 --> 00:06:48,169 Matthew Drennan: Estate Investment Trusts, what we've seen there is some very 123 00:06:48,170 --> 00:06:51,469 Matthew Drennan: strong returns out of things like the industrial sector, but 124 00:06:51,470 --> 00:06:55,589 Matthew Drennan: things like shopping malls being left behind. What we're seeing 125 00:06:55,589 --> 00:06:58,029 Matthew Drennan: is we come out of lockdown, is that people do 126 00:06:58,029 --> 00:07:00,560 Matthew Drennan: want to get out there and socialise and do want 127 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,469 Matthew Drennan: to go and shop and touch and feel what they're 128 00:07:03,470 --> 00:07:05,700 Matthew Drennan: looking at before they make a purchase. I think there's 129 00:07:05,700 --> 00:07:10,440 Matthew Drennan: opportunities within that property sector. There's obviously opportunities in a 130 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,190 Matthew Drennan: number of areas in rare earths and as we move to 131 00:07:14,190 --> 00:07:20,140 Matthew Drennan: decarbonise the economy. Things like lithium are very, very precious commodities 132 00:07:20,140 --> 00:07:24,020 Matthew Drennan: that are pretty hard to find. And we have seen 133 00:07:24,490 --> 00:07:26,750 Matthew Drennan: some pretty strong runs in that area, but I think 134 00:07:27,050 --> 00:07:31,070 Matthew Drennan: we've still got a supply shortage there. There's good opportunities 135 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:35,020 Matthew Drennan: in areas there. Healthcare, I think is another classic, as 136 00:07:35,300 --> 00:07:39,470 Matthew Drennan: we continue to see the population age. And there's always 137 00:07:39,470 --> 00:07:41,720 Matthew Drennan: the stalwart of banks which, although they've been under a little 138 00:07:41,860 --> 00:07:44,239 Matthew Drennan: bit of pressure particularly with the comments out of CommBank 139 00:07:44,810 --> 00:07:47,740 Matthew Drennan: with margin squeeze the other day, they're still going to 140 00:07:47,740 --> 00:07:51,570 Matthew Drennan: pay good dividends and they're still going to provide good returns 141 00:07:52,030 --> 00:07:52,990 Matthew Drennan: over and above inflation. 142 00:07:53,380 --> 00:07:55,340 Sean Aylmer: What about, I mean, the other big sector, among the 143 00:07:55,340 --> 00:07:57,900 Sean Aylmer: large caps at least, are the miners. What's your view 144 00:07:57,900 --> 00:07:59,620 Sean Aylmer: on the material sector generally? 145 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,780 Matthew Drennan: Well, I think it's an interesting one. I mean we 146 00:08:03,780 --> 00:08:08,170 Matthew Drennan: are going to see areas where iron ore, for example, is going to continue 147 00:08:08,270 --> 00:08:12,570 Matthew Drennan: to be in demand. But we are seeing, for example, 148 00:08:12,570 --> 00:08:16,490 Matthew Drennan: one of our biggest customers, China, apart from political tensions there, 149 00:08:16,490 --> 00:08:20,400 Matthew Drennan: there's also the issue that they're slowing down their infrastructure 150 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,300 Matthew Drennan: build out. And so, we have seen quite a bit 151 00:08:23,300 --> 00:08:27,420 Matthew Drennan: of volatility in terms of iron ore prices recently and that's our biggest export. 152 00:08:27,770 --> 00:08:31,320 Matthew Drennan: Things like copper and so on will continue to still 153 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:35,670 Matthew Drennan: be in demand. And that plays into the new economy 154 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,460 Matthew Drennan: as we move to decarbonise as well. There is going 155 00:08:38,460 --> 00:08:41,360 Matthew Drennan: to continue to be to demand there. I think what 156 00:08:41,630 --> 00:08:45,870 Matthew Drennan: will change is how that energy is actually produced. And 157 00:08:45,870 --> 00:08:50,020 Matthew Drennan: if you look at something like aluminium, that is a massive user of energy. 158 00:08:50,020 --> 00:08:52,870 Matthew Drennan: And there's already a lot of talk and the government's 159 00:08:52,870 --> 00:08:57,630 Matthew Drennan: moving to move to new technologies like hydrogen and so on, 160 00:08:57,929 --> 00:09:00,839 Matthew Drennan: to actually produce that power in a greener way and 161 00:09:01,490 --> 00:09:05,410 Matthew Drennan: enable us to continue to export those important commodities. 162 00:09:06,210 --> 00:09:08,339 Sean Aylmer: How should investors think about international markets? 163 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,950 Matthew Drennan: Well, look, I think international markets offer a lot of 164 00:09:11,950 --> 00:09:16,559 Matthew Drennan: advantages over Australia in terms of a much bigger technology sector, 165 00:09:16,630 --> 00:09:20,580 Matthew Drennan: a much bigger healthcare sector, a more diversified real estate 166 00:09:20,580 --> 00:09:24,449 Matthew Drennan: sector as well. There's certainly a lot of opportunities there. 167 00:09:25,010 --> 00:09:29,080 Matthew Drennan: One of the areas that I would be concerned about from the 168 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,319 Matthew Drennan: global sector, particularly out of the US, is that big 169 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,920 Matthew Drennan: tech is under a lot of threats. We've seen, for example, 170 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:40,540 Matthew Drennan: issues with Jack Ma in China and his tech companies. 171 00:09:40,540 --> 00:09:44,809 Matthew Drennan: But also things like Facebook and Google where privacy is 172 00:09:44,809 --> 00:09:48,400 Matthew Drennan: becoming a big issue, the regulatory impacts there are going 173 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,449 Matthew Drennan: to be pretty dramatic. And we are going to see, I think, an increase 174 00:09:52,710 --> 00:09:56,250 Matthew Drennan: in the need for governments to look at taxing these 175 00:09:56,250 --> 00:09:59,640 Matthew Drennan: entities more efficiently. The supernormal profits they've been able to 176 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,310 Matthew Drennan: make over the last decade, I think are under threat. And that's an area that 177 00:10:04,059 --> 00:10:05,891 Matthew Drennan: I'd be wary of, generally speaking. 178 00:10:05,891 --> 00:10:10,959 Sean Aylmer: Okay. And I can't talk to an investment expert without asking 179 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:11,940 Sean Aylmer: about cryptos. 180 00:10:11,950 --> 00:10:11,970 Matthew Drennan: Yeah. 181 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,160 Sean Aylmer: What's your take on cryptos and are they worth investing in? 182 00:10:15,660 --> 00:10:18,420 Matthew Drennan: Yeah, look, it's an interesting question. And I think the 183 00:10:18,850 --> 00:10:22,260 Matthew Drennan: first thing when you're an investor is to make sure that you 184 00:10:22,300 --> 00:10:24,380 Matthew Drennan: understand that you're not infallible and you are going to 185 00:10:24,380 --> 00:10:28,650 Matthew Drennan: make a lot of mistakes. And cryptos have been a good return generally, particularly, 186 00:10:28,870 --> 00:10:32,230 Matthew Drennan: I guess, Bitcoin. But if I look at it from a technical 187 00:10:32,230 --> 00:10:36,729 Matthew Drennan: perspective, I say, " Okay, blockchain technology, which is using cryptocurrency 188 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,710 Matthew Drennan: is a very sensible, very, very effective way of protecting 189 00:10:41,809 --> 00:10:44,699 Matthew Drennan: the integrity of data." So that I get. When I 190 00:10:44,700 --> 00:10:49,300 Matthew Drennan: look at cryptos themselves though, I don't really understand the basis of their 191 00:10:49,300 --> 00:10:54,080 Matthew Drennan: value. They're incredibly volatile and speculative in nature. And if 192 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,920 Matthew Drennan: you look at the supply side, there really aren't any 193 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:01,209 Matthew Drennan: great constraints to that. Bitcoin was the first mover, but 194 00:11:01,210 --> 00:11:03,670 Matthew Drennan: we've seen Dogecoin and a whole range of others coming 195 00:11:03,670 --> 00:11:08,829 Matthew Drennan: out. What's to stop that just being a continued proliferation? 196 00:11:08,830 --> 00:11:11,590 Matthew Drennan: And what's the advantage in being able to pay in 197 00:11:11,660 --> 00:11:15,810 Matthew Drennan: cryptocurrency? Except if you're in the black economy, I'd argue. 198 00:11:16,900 --> 00:11:20,949 Matthew Drennan: I'd say the more interesting areas, which really isn't investable, but 199 00:11:20,950 --> 00:11:23,740 Matthew Drennan: is something that we're starting to see central banks around 200 00:11:23,740 --> 00:11:26,730 Matthew Drennan: the world get into now is digital currencies. And I think that 201 00:11:27,350 --> 00:11:30,820 Matthew Drennan: is a very, very sensible move. Moving away from the 202 00:11:30,820 --> 00:11:35,929 Matthew Drennan: traditional paper- based currency into areas where they can issue 203 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:40,590 Matthew Drennan: digital currency and make monetary policy far more targeted. Areas 204 00:11:40,590 --> 00:11:42,809 Matthew Drennan: like it might have an expiry date because we're trying 205 00:11:42,809 --> 00:11:48,040 Matthew Drennan: to stimulate the economy over the next three months. Or it might be that it can only be spent in certain sectors because 206 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:49,610 Matthew Drennan: we're trying to support tourism, for example. 207 00:11:49,890 --> 00:11:50,240 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 208 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:56,110 Matthew Drennan: I think those are really interesting developments. Crypto itself, I think to my mind, remains very speculative. 209 00:11:56,660 --> 00:11:58,120 Sean Aylmer: Matthew, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 210 00:11:58,630 --> 00:11:59,760 Matthew Drennan: No problem, Sean. Thanks. 211 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,660 Sean Aylmer: That was Matthew Drennan, head of savings and investments for 212 00:12:02,660 --> 00:12:05,540 Sean Aylmer: Zurich Australia. This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. 213 00:12:05,540 --> 00:12:07,710 Sean Aylmer: Join me every morning for the full Fear and Greed 214 00:12:07,710 --> 00:12:10,099 Sean Aylmer: podcast, with all the business news you need to know. 215 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:11,980 Sean Aylmer: I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.