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Speaker 1: We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land

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Speaker 1: on which this podcast was produced, the Galligall people of

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Speaker 1: the orination. We pay our respects to Elder's past and present.

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Speaker 2: Just a warning that Osher's story contains discussions of mental

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Speaker 2: ill health and addiction. If this episode raises any issues

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Speaker 2: for you, support is available through the links and phone

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Speaker 2: numbers in our show notes.

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Speaker 3: It's November two thousand and six and we're in the

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Speaker 3: wings of the Sydney Opera House. Andrew ge is about

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Speaker 3: to take the stage to host Australian Idols Ground Finadi.

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Speaker 3: The lights are bright, the stakes are high, the pressure

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Speaker 3: is on. One in four Australian households will tune in

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Speaker 3: to watch him do his thing. This is his happy place,

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Speaker 3: the place where he feels most in control. But when

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Speaker 3: the lights go down and he gets off stage, he

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Speaker 3: won't feel so in control. In fact, he's fighting for

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Speaker 3: his life. His career has become his coping mechanism for

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Speaker 3: his battle with OCD.

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Speaker 4: Drugs and alcohol.

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Speaker 3: Now as Osher Ginsburg, he sits in front of me

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Speaker 3: a completely different person, a new name, a new approach

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Speaker 3: to life.

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Speaker 4: I'm Att Middleton.

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Speaker 3: And this is head Game Today beloved TV host, podcaster,

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Speaker 3: and mental health advocate Osher Ginsburg on making a life

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Speaker 3: worth living. Asher Ginsburg, It's an absolute pleasure to have

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Speaker 3: you on my podcast, head Game.

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Speaker 5: I'm glad I can be here, mate.

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Speaker 4: So just take me back to.

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Speaker 3: Your childhood and who you were, who you thought you were.

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Speaker 3: Did you have a good upbringing, what your parents were like,

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Speaker 3: because it's podcast is about you and we want to

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Speaker 3: get to know the nitty.

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Speaker 5: I can answer that question in forty nine minutes and

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Speaker 5: then you'll be done. But I'll tell you this short

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Speaker 5: versions you're, you know, military man with a military background,

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Speaker 5: so you know what I'm talking about when I tell

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Speaker 5: you that I'm one of four boys. I'm number two

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Speaker 5: of four boys, and I was raised by two people

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Speaker 5: who know what it is to have authoritarian regimes kick

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Speaker 5: your doorin and people with machine guns say this is

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Speaker 5: ours now. And that happened to my mum when she

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Speaker 5: was just a bit younger than my son. To be honest,

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Speaker 5: it was about three they fled Lithuania with the retreating

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Speaker 5: German army. Because we all know how terrible that was

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Speaker 5: in parts of the Holocaust. The real groom kind of

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Speaker 5: hand to hand brutal massacres happened before they mechanized it.

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Speaker 5: That happened there, and they knew how bad those guys were.

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Speaker 5: But when they found out the Russians were coming over,

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Speaker 5: they're like, fuck, let's get out of here. It was like,

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Speaker 5: that's bad. Some twenty four years later, the same Russians

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Speaker 5: stormed tanks through my dad's city of Prague, and he'd

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Speaker 5: the one to look at that and when well, I

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Speaker 5: better go, and so he was twenty it was twenty

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Speaker 5: four when that happened, and so both my parents had that.

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Speaker 5: They're both doctors, but they both had this idea of,

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Speaker 5: you know, it can all get taken away, and you

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Speaker 5: know a different relationship to authority than some people probably

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Speaker 5: would have had, and most definitely an awareness of it's

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Speaker 5: lovely here in Australia. Yeah, and there's parts of the

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Speaker 5: world like in our lifetimes it's kind of not been

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Speaker 5: that way now. So these people, that's that's what they

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Speaker 5: you know, that's what they grew up with and that's

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Speaker 5: you know, who they were, and they hoped he could.

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Speaker 3: You sense that as a child growing up or did

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Speaker 3: you learn that later or could you sense.

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Speaker 5: That in the definitely knew that about my dad. Dad

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Speaker 5: talked about it a lot. He lost family in the Holocaust,

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Speaker 5: and you know, he was alrightly, you know, quite really

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Speaker 5: making sure that us kids knew what it was about.

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Speaker 5: Mum didn't talk about it so much until they'd split up,

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Speaker 5: And it was once Dad had left that Mum started

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Speaker 5: opening up about the things that happened to her and

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Speaker 5: her journey, Like they walked from Colnus down to northern

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Speaker 5: Germany in the middle of winter, they walked and wildly

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Speaker 5: and well, I like to talk about this when when

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Speaker 5: her and her family got to Australia. On the top

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Speaker 5: of the form and I've seen the former says d

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Speaker 5: P displaced persons. There were persons displaced by war. They

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Speaker 5: weren't refugees, they weren't Q jumpers, they weren't asylum seekers.

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Speaker 5: There were people. There were persons who had been displaced

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Speaker 5: through no fault of their own. But look as far

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Speaker 5: as how I was a jumpy kid. I was five,

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Speaker 5: I think when my parents set me off to psychiatrist,

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Speaker 5: and I think it was one in Brisbane at the time,

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Speaker 5: in the late seventies, and I just remember like anxiety

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Speaker 5: being this all encompassing thing that would just overtake me

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Speaker 5: and I was unable to escape it and.

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Speaker 4: Was quickly asked, you, so you were you were? You

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Speaker 4: had a psychiatrist at the age.

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Speaker 5: Of five, Like, what's going on with a kid that

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Speaker 5: they gets into a psychiatrist at five?

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Speaker 3: So I don't know, because nowadays that's sort of like,

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Speaker 3: you know, we hear about it a lot more nowadays

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Speaker 3: and it's more highly accepted now. How how was that

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Speaker 3: perceived back into back back when you were five to

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Speaker 3: how it's perceived now.

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Speaker 5: I grew up in I don't know how much you

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Speaker 5: know about Australian local politics. I grew up in Joe

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Speaker 5: Bioki's Queensland. So the fact that my last name was

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Speaker 5: Ginsburg was enough. It didn't need to didn't too much more.

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Speaker 5: Topping on top of that cake. It was a pretty

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Speaker 5: weird place, pretty pretty strange place. But yeah, you know,

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Speaker 5: I remember it was it was. It was really weird,

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Speaker 5: and I was always kind of afraid of people and

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Speaker 5: afraid of strangers and two kind of I found it

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Speaker 5: a bit of a salve for that a in you know,

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Speaker 5: because what's anxiety for me at the time. Anxiety was

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Speaker 5: a sense of lack of control and when am I

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Speaker 5: more in control than and I'm on stage? I was eight.

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Speaker 5: I think we were doing a sketch at school. We

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Speaker 5: went to the kind of school where every Friday there'd

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Speaker 5: be an assembly and you had to do a skit

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Speaker 5: on like, I don't know, picking up rubbish or you know,

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Speaker 5: whatever you're doing, don't masturbateer. Jesus is always watching you.

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Speaker 5: It was that kind of school. And we did the

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Speaker 5: sketch and I had to walk out there and do

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Speaker 5: the line don't worry it was about picking up rubbish,

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Speaker 5: and I think I said. I walked out and everyone

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Speaker 5: was quiet, and they're all staring at me. It's like

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Speaker 5: three hundred kids or looking at me with faces like

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Speaker 5: cooy carp right, And I think the line was something

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Speaker 5: along the lines of don't committe us in, put it

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Speaker 5: in the bin. Indocrination was deep, but it was like that,

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Speaker 5: and I got a laugh and the choy carp just

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Speaker 5: started and they all just and that was really totally

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Speaker 5: kind of the first high that I ever got, because

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Speaker 5: here I am stay oh yeah, because like I'm now

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Speaker 5: bear in mind. I was eight. I was also in

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Speaker 5: weight watches at eight because my tummy felt it was

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Speaker 5: the anxiety to make my feeling go away. This awful

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Speaker 5: feeling is my body. I would put things in my

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Speaker 5: tummy and I was just quite, what's going on with

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Speaker 5: a kid? They get taken awight watches when they're eight,

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Speaker 5: which later on I found out it's very much like

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Speaker 5: a twelve step for fatty. I went through various stages

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Speaker 5: of you know, not great, you know, mental health and

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Speaker 5: you know, various that kind of coupled with not a

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Speaker 5: lot of great fitness and stuff like that. But I

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Speaker 5: always found a great amount of respite and relief in performing,

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Speaker 5: and because there was this beautiful sense of I don't

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Speaker 5: think I was necessarily I was just able to kind

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Speaker 5: of communicate, I think in a different way, express yourself, right, yeah,

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Speaker 5: And there was yeah, I'm not gonna lie. There was

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Speaker 5: a sense of control. My coping mechanism eventually became my career,

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Speaker 5: but I did come to a point where I had

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Speaker 5: to reassess that and it's very different now. But like

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Speaker 5: if I think back to some of the biggest things

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Speaker 5: I've ever done, millions of people down the camera lens,

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Speaker 5: literally coast to coast, live across America, just absolute ceremenity,

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Speaker 5: complete calm when I think about those moments. You know,

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Speaker 5: if I said to someone, I picked yourself speaking in

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Speaker 5: front of hundred people, Now I speak yourself speaking eight

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Speaker 5: hundred people. Now those eight hundred people are in a

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Speaker 5: TV studio and there's twelve cameras in there, and at

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Speaker 5: the end of every one of those cameras is a

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Speaker 5: person except this ten million of them. How do you

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Speaker 5: feel they probably shit themselves for me, It's like, I'm ready,

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Speaker 5: let's go.

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Speaker 3: Would you say from that moment onwards, from the age

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Speaker 3: of eight, it did not to have knowing what you

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Speaker 3: wanted to do, but you say you felt was hugely

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Speaker 3: in control.

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Speaker 5: It was I knew what I wanted to do. I

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Speaker 5: knew that it was always going to be something to

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Speaker 5: do with performing. I think my mum came in at

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Speaker 5: the age of five. I grew up in Brisbane, which

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Speaker 5: again it was a big cow town run by a

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Speaker 5: premier who was essentially it was like a five tom

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Speaker 5: and I'm standing on the coffee table and we only

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Speaker 5: had three TV channels and most of them the whole

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Speaker 5: day long was the test pattern, which is a great show,

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Speaker 5: went all day, never canceled it, and they classical music

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Speaker 5: underneath it, and Mum came in one day and she

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Speaker 5: found me standing on the coffee table conducting the classical

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Speaker 5: music on the table. There was just something about connecting

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Speaker 5: with other people who are performing and you know, without words,

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Speaker 5: doing this thing together to get an emotional response. I

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Speaker 5: know that now as an adult, but there was just

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Speaker 5: something about it that I just loved. Couple that with

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Speaker 5: a sense of I know what's going to happen if

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Speaker 5: I'm up here for at least for the next twelve minutes,

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Speaker 5: I know what's going to happen, so I'm just calm.

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Speaker 5: That's the sort of thing that kind of pushed me

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Speaker 5: to want to get better at singing and playing guitar

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Speaker 5: and playing piano and acting and whatever else I was

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Speaker 5: doing to buy me that stage time, to get me

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Speaker 5: that feeling, and.

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Speaker 3: That feeling was pure I am in control Or was

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Speaker 3: it just like this has giving me a buzz, this

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Speaker 3: is making me feel alive?

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Speaker 4: What was that feeling?

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Speaker 5: And I still this part I still relate to, like

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Speaker 5: I don't I don't do my job for this anymore,

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Speaker 5: but it's nice when it happens when you you know.

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Speaker 5: I don't know which high school musical is you were in.

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Speaker 5: But when you're standing on stage and you're trying to

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Speaker 5: remember your lines and you're trying to remember the song

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Speaker 5: and the harmony, which isn't the melodies and fuck it up,

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Speaker 5: and you're trying to remember where you have to stand

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Speaker 5: and who have you've got to go, and there's a

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Speaker 5: person there and you're trying to remember make sure you

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Speaker 5: stand in the light and not in the shadow. There

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Speaker 5: really isn't any room left in your brain for which

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Speaker 5: is the barrage of noise that goes on in my

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Speaker 5: head most of the time. So when I'm that focused,

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Speaker 5: all that stuff goes away and it's just really lovely.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, can, I can.

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Speaker 3: I can relate to that because it's those focused on

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Speaker 3: what you need to do that all the noise distractions.

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Speaker 3: But ultimately that's that's quite rare because normally it's the

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Speaker 3: flip side, Right, Normally people get up and it's the noise.

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Speaker 3: It's the distractions that really, you know, that really break

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Speaker 3: them down and stop them from performing. But you you

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Speaker 3: were just so hyper focused and what you need to was, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it silenced all the exterior.

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Speaker 5: Was very lucky. I was very lucky to have that.

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Speaker 5: But there's the same thing goes. You know, if I'm

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Speaker 5: doing a show like I mean, it's not on air

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Speaker 5: at the moment, probably won't ever be again. But a

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Speaker 5: show called the Masts thing. It's very silly show. But

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Speaker 5: I walk out and there's twenty dances. I'm wearing this

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Speaker 5: helmet that looks like I'm in daft punk. It's all LEDs.

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Speaker 5: I can't actually see out of it, so I just

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Speaker 5: have to count my steps and remember I'm walking in

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Speaker 5: a straight line. Walk six steps forward, don't walk seven

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Speaker 5: because right there on that beat there's going to be

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Speaker 5: propane cannons going across in front of me, So don't

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Speaker 5: stand there. But then when the music continues, take four

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Speaker 5: steps forward because now you need to be that point.

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Speaker 5: You can still smell the fumes in the air. Flip

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Speaker 5: the mic without looking, take the helmet off. Remember all

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Speaker 5: the dance moves. There's fourteen cameras in the room. Da

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Speaker 5: da da da Da da da. Now I've got a

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Speaker 5: brain that goes no problem. I'm fine, And it's just

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Speaker 5: it's just like the ding of a bell at the

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Speaker 5: end of sevasna and the yoga class. That's what it

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Speaker 5: feels like. But when I don't have that amount going on.

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Speaker 5: It can be challenge still, but so I actually work

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Speaker 5: these days. I work quite hard to make sure those

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Speaker 5: noisy bits have something to do. Which is that when

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Speaker 5: is that when the self doubt kicks in? Is that

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Speaker 5: when the habits, that the temptation kicks in, is when

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Speaker 5: you're not in those moments, Because it sounds like pretty

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Speaker 5: much like me, when I'm sat twiddling my thumbs, that's when.

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Speaker 4: I get myself in a bit of idle hands.

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Speaker 5: No self doubt. Self doubt's a bit more. I don't

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Speaker 5: know about that. I think no, it was never really that.

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Speaker 5: I think there's an element. I don't know if it's humorous.

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Speaker 5: I just I just believed, and I think there's got

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Speaker 5: to be an element of it. To anybody that says

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Speaker 5: I am a songwriter or I am an author, or

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Speaker 5: I am the one soldier who's going to go and

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Speaker 5: make a massive TV show about soldiering and overgive a

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Speaker 5: fuck what any of those hard heads are going to

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Speaker 5: say to me yours or grunts, Here I am winning

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Speaker 5: the leggy fuck yah, Like there's something about you that goes, yes,

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Speaker 5: I am going to do this, And here I go

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Speaker 5: and that's you. I don't think you can achieve those

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Speaker 5: things in life. If you allow that self doubt to

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Speaker 5: make your decisions, you know, you kind of make those

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Speaker 5: bold moves because you are willing to be with the

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Speaker 5: criticism and will with the critique because otherwise you'd never

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Speaker 5: leave the house. You wouldn't go No, no, no desk

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Speaker 5: job for me, thank you? No, Like that's never been

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Speaker 5: I don't work with anybody like that. Camera guys, sound guys, anybody.

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Speaker 5: Everyone's like, yep, I'm going to not pursue a career

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Speaker 5: that's solid and you know, has a regular income to

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Speaker 5: support my family. I'm going to swing a boom. You know,

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Speaker 5: these guys work. You know, there's got to be something

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Speaker 5: about you know, certainly in a seasonal industry like mine,

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Speaker 5: you've got to have some amount of confidence or belief.

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Speaker 6: In when was your big break?

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Speaker 3: Because you go through you know, you realize that you

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Speaker 3: want to be on stage. This is where you come alive,

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Speaker 3: This is where you're incomplete control. Where did it all

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Speaker 3: start and how did you get your big break?

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Speaker 5: I always knew I was going to do it. I

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Speaker 5: always had this idea that this is where I was

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Speaker 5: going to go. I played in a lot of bands.

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Speaker 5: I always played music. I still do, and I just

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Speaker 5: knew that there was something. I had something more to

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Speaker 5: give than what was there. And I was a roadie

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Speaker 5: for a long time and I was lugging road cases

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Speaker 5: up and down flights of stairs at three in the morning,

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Speaker 5: and the blistering.

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Speaker 4: It was awful.

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Speaker 5: I did that for like it was fun, you know,

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Speaker 5: but I learned a lot. I learned a lot doing that.

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Speaker 5: I think it's really important to do a hard physical

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Speaker 5: job when you're like seventeen eighteen nineteen, so you spend

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Speaker 5: the rest of your life going I'm going to do everything.

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Speaker 5: I can never do that again because it's I've got

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Speaker 5: two hernias and hearing damage out of it. We're hearing

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Speaker 5: age now because my ears are fucked. But when I

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Speaker 5: was doing that, and I started playing in bands quite regularly,

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Speaker 5: and then I was like, there's gotta be something, there's more.

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Speaker 5: I've got more to give than what's here. And so

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Speaker 5: I just literally I just sat down. I wrote handwritten

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Speaker 5: letters to all the radio stations in Brisbone and said,

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Speaker 5: I don't care what it is, I just want to

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Speaker 5: be around it. I just I'll come do anything. I'll

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Speaker 5: turn a light bulb and I don't give a shit.

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Speaker 5: And one of the people that worked at the radio

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Speaker 5: station B one O five, he used to be the

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Speaker 5: bar manager at one of the places that I would

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Speaker 5: lug in and lug out of on a Tuesday, and

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Speaker 5: I used to go get the keys off of him

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Speaker 5: to open the loading dock and he's like, I know

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Speaker 5: that guy, get him in here, and and that was it.

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Speaker 5: I got my first overnight shift like six weeks eight

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Speaker 5: weeks later, so I was just giving out the ICICL

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Speaker 5: cans for a while, and pretty soon I was doing

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Speaker 5: the overnights. And so these jobs don't exist anymore, which

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Speaker 5: is a real drag because I think the great fallacy

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Speaker 5: that people think is that you can go from I'm

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Speaker 5: interested in doing this to a million downloads, Like, no,

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Speaker 5: you're gonna have to be prepared to be shit for

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Speaker 5: quite a while and understand that you're not going to

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Speaker 5: get it straight away. And flight miles really truly is

321
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Speaker 5: the only way that you can get something into until

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Speaker 5: it's automatic. Absolutely, Like I don't know how many times

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Speaker 5: you've disassembled and reassembled a rifle, mate, but if you

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Speaker 5: have to think about it, you're gonna have to do

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Speaker 5: it again. You have to be able to do it

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Speaker 5: while counting a deck of cards right, and then do

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Speaker 5: it perfectly because your hands just have to know what

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Speaker 5: to do instinctively. And then there's a skill to broadcasting.

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Speaker 5: There's a way to you know, truncate the things you

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Speaker 5: want to say, cadence of your voice, operating all the buttons,

331
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Speaker 5: all that kind of shit. And so I did five

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Speaker 5: years of like between midnight and six Amazon Air playing

333
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Speaker 5: fucking Sleandyon and Brian Adams and Third Eye Blind and

334
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Speaker 5: all kinds of other nineties stuff. And then I was like,

335
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Speaker 5: I'm never going to get a job in the daytime.

336
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Speaker 5: And one of the daytime jobs dies, so so I

337
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Speaker 5: sent started sending tapes around the different stations around this country,

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Speaker 5: and the guys in Adelaide were like, oh yeah, let's

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Speaker 5: want to come down. And so I got a job

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Speaker 5: in the daytime and I my girlfriend and it was

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Speaker 5: at the time we're not together anymore. It was years ago.

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Speaker 5: I left her, left my family of my friends, left everything,

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Speaker 5: and I just got on a plane and went to

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Speaker 5: Adelaide and I said, I've just got to go. I've

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Speaker 5: just got to go. And as I left.

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Speaker 3: One of the were you following you were you just

347
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Speaker 3: following that career or were you following your gut where

348
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Speaker 3: you're you just gut?

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Speaker 5: It was just I just knew I had to do

350
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Speaker 5: this thing. I just I couldn't put words into it,

351
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Speaker 5: like what is follow your gut? Follw your gut is?

352
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Speaker 5: And what is intuition? It is simply a subconscious reflection

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Speaker 5: of something that you've already seen or experienced or you understand,

354
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Speaker 5: but you may not you may not be able to

355
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Speaker 5: put into words. That is all intuition is. You don't

356
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Speaker 5: have some sort of divinity put through you. It's just

357
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Speaker 5: your subconscious is able to make decisions quicker than you

358
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Speaker 5: can think about it cognitively. Right, This stuff happens automatically.

359
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Speaker 5: And I was just like, Oh, I have to do

360
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Speaker 5: I have to go, I have to go. And so

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Speaker 5: I got there and within about a month I was like,

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Speaker 5: oh fucking hell, I'm in Adelaide. This is weird town

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Speaker 5: on the edge of a desert. Like the whole snowtown

364
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Speaker 5: thing was going on at that time. I was like,

365
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Speaker 5: this is fucking strange here. And when I was leaving Brisbane,

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Speaker 5: Darryl is an amazing audio operator. As I left, he said,

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Speaker 5: you'll be in Sydney within six months. I was like,

368
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Speaker 5: what the fuck are you talking about. I don't even

369
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Speaker 5: know when I'm going to be in six weeks. I

370
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Speaker 5: just know I have to go now. I just got

371
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Speaker 5: to go and look mate. Sure enough, about a month later,

372
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Speaker 5: I was like, I've got to get out of here.

373
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Speaker 5: This is That's not big enough. I've got to go.

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Speaker 5: I've got to get bigger than this. And so, because

375
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Speaker 5: I've just been in Europe right and for the first

376
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Speaker 5: time as an adult, and you know, it was I

377
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Speaker 5: was like, oh my god, the word's bigger than Brisbane. Wow.

378
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Speaker 5: And so as January, there was an old TV show

379
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Speaker 5: here called Recovery. It was on Saturday mornings. I don't

380
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Speaker 5: do that anymore. And I got an email from the

381
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Speaker 5: same guy who now moved to Sydney and he was

382
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Speaker 5: working at a cable network down there, and he said,

383
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Speaker 5: one of the hosts of the afternoon Request show has

384
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Speaker 5: just left. You should send him a tape. And I

385
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Speaker 5: was like, well, if we're going to make a tape

386
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Speaker 5: for that show who was asking about presenters, I'll send

387
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Speaker 5: Daryl one as well. And so I roll I rode

388
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Speaker 5: my escape. I found the tape the other day and

389
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Speaker 5: I rode my skateboard around the beach in Adelaide and

390
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Speaker 5: walked through the park and I did this whole pitch

391
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Speaker 5: and I posted it. That was it. Two weeks later,

392
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Speaker 5: I was on a plane to Sydney for an interview.

393
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Speaker 5: And here's the thing, because I worked at the radio

394
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Speaker 5: station and I wouldn't want to tell him I would

395
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Speaker 5: have breached a contract. Right, So good night, everybody, see

396
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,240
Speaker 5: a lot of guys gonna get him my Kingswood. Fang

397
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Speaker 5: to the Adelaide airport, get on the plane, fly to Sydney.

398
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Speaker 5: It was like two and a half hours. Land, get

399
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Speaker 5: a cab to the restaurant, meet the boss, have a

400
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:52,320
Speaker 5: chat for a couple of hours, get back to the

401
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:54,159
Speaker 5: you know you sleep at my brother's house for a

402
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,880
Speaker 5: couple of hours. Then go back to the airport, get

403
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Speaker 5: back to Adelaide, flight out, rolling at nine to fifteen story,

404
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,760
Speaker 5: a bit like guys, how are you good? I did

405
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,320
Speaker 5: about two or three times and then they said, yeah,

406
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 5: you got the job. And I went in and resigned

407
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,560
Speaker 5: and my boss kicked me in the shins twice. And

408
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,200
Speaker 5: I was doing then I was doing live TV every afternoon.

409
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Speaker 5: We were making three hours of television five days a week.

410
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Speaker 5: We're making fifteen hours of live TV every day. So

411
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Speaker 5: by the time Idol came up, I've been doing this

412
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Speaker 5: six days a week for nine years.

413
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Speaker 3: This is why we're on this podcast, mate, because it's

414
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,960
Speaker 3: people don't realize they see the tip of the iceberg,

415
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,960
Speaker 3: you know, and I use that metaphor everything that goes

416
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,240
Speaker 3: on underneath from you your sleepless nights, so you traveling

417
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Speaker 3: around the country to you put you know, being present

418
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Speaker 3: as in putting out applications, you know, taking opportunities.

419
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Speaker 4: It's like people, people don't appreciate that.

420
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Speaker 3: The amount of effort works sacrifice, right you talk about

421
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Speaker 3: you know your girlfriend, I'm off to the personal sacrifice

422
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Speaker 3: that it takes in order to that committed to what

423
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Speaker 3: you know, to follow what your gut was telling you.

424
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Speaker 5: But that's the thing that it took. It took nine

425
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Speaker 5: years of being kind of shit and just working really

426
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 5: harder getting better and having my ego belted to the

427
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,199
Speaker 5: ground by my bosses who were like, you could be

428
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 5: so much better than this, just stop fucking yelling or

429
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,439
Speaker 5: speak slower, or and me not being such an idiot,

430
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 5: not wanting to be told what to do, but eventually realizing, oh,

431
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,160
Speaker 5: if they tell me what to do, it'll be all right.

432
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Speaker 5: But I did, honestly, and I squandered a lot of it, man,

433
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 5: because I didn't know. Once I got to Sydney, I

434
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,120
Speaker 5: didn't understand. I didn't know how to handle what was happening.

435
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 5: Because once we got on that that really big show,

436
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 5: when the things went fucking crazy. Man, and let's.

437
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,720
Speaker 4: Talk about that much. So how did you? How did

438
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:44,159
Speaker 4: that go? So you've done nine years?

439
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 3: You know, you just got just got up there and

440
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,360
Speaker 3: just formed the office like you had been doing. Yeah,

441
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,679
Speaker 3: here's the thing, naturally like it''s rair mate. Well, you know,

442
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 3: I've got to give that to you.

443
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 5: I appreciate that. But the thing is like, people only

444
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,919
Speaker 5: ever saw me when I was in that moment a right.

445
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 5: It's like we're recording this right before the Olympics start.

446
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 5: But you know, like say, for example, if you saw

447
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 5: Ariana Titmus walking down the street, you'd be like, holy shit,

448
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 5: she can walk because you've only ever seen her swim

449
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 5: fuck can happen? So you only people only ever saw

450
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,439
Speaker 5: me when I was in this Oh man, fucking Finally,

451
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 5: everything's quiet moment, all right. The other twenty three hours

452
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 5: it was hard, and that's where things like alcohol and

453
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 5: drugs and whatever else started getting into things. To deal

454
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 5: with that, I tip from the top. Not a great

455
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 5: way to deal with that, and I got very lucky

456
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 5: that I didn't die. It got, you know, to the

457
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,879
Speaker 5: point where you know, unfortunately the story is not a

458
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:46,680
Speaker 5: not an uncommon one, and I wish it had a

459
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 5: different ending. But I had the same meanning that every

460
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 5: person ever tells this story does. Like I had it

461
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,360
Speaker 5: all and I'd drunk it away. That's exactly what happened,

462
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 5: through the magic of you know, divorce and alcoholic decisions

463
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 5: and you know, dumb investments with you know.

464
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,879
Speaker 3: Flee they take. Let's let's start at the beginning. So

465
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 3: you've got Australian idol. You come onto that, Yeah, and

466
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 3: you're the face of that. So how did that do

467
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 3: you do? You remember sort of coming off of that

468
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 3: thinking my whole life is going to change.

469
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 5: No, no, no, I just didn't. I was just holding

470
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 5: on with both hands. Were just it was just nuts.

471
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 5: You've worked on big TV shows, but you know you

472
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 5: mentioned you're a Special Forces operator that people don't get that. Like,

473
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 5: my mum was a civy doctor in the military for

474
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 5: fifteen years, right, so I was at her base all

475
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:38,160
Speaker 5: the time. And people don't understand how much rehearsal goes

476
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 5: on in the world of you know, any kind of

477
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:47,159
Speaker 5: military operation. They will literally practice it every day for

478
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 5: a year, so that when the window of opportunity opens,

479
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 5: they're in and out in sixteen minutes and seven seconds

480
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 5: like a fucking Clooney film.

481
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,360
Speaker 4: Right, it's nice and it's nice.

482
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 5: They practice it and practic and practice, practice, practice, press progress,

483
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 5: so you know, it's yeah, and you could the whole

484
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 5: thing will fall apart of one person isn't in the

485
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 5: right place at exactly the right time, and if everything

486
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 5: isn't working perfectly all right, And that's the same thing

487
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:13,959
Speaker 5: when you're working on this big shows there's like one

488
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 5: hundred and fifteen people and it's it's this perfectly choreographed

489
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 5: dance between everybody, and it only works if everyone is

490
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 5: doing exactly the best job of their life. And that

491
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 5: is amazing to be a part of it. Is I

492
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 5: might be one of the people in front of the camera,

493
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 5: but there are yasily over one hundred people who are

494
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 5: the very best in the business and the only reason

495
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 5: that any of us are there because everyone else is there,

496
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 5: and that's the only reason those show makes there. And

497
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 5: it is just wonderful to be a part of something

498
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,360
Speaker 5: like that because especially when it's live. No one really

499
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 5: does live anymore too expensive, but especially when it's live,

500
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 5: the stakes are real high.

501
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 3: And I bet you love that though. I bet that's

502
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 3: where you were in your life. If I mess up

503
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 3: right now, then it's live is going out millions of people.

504
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 5: That's what makes it so exciting. But there's nothing like

505
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 5: it's the most funny you can have with your clothes on.

506
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 5: It really is. It's just unbelievable because ultimately, what am

507
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 5: I doing? What's my job? You know, I think about

508
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,120
Speaker 5: it right now, like I have to think about really carefully.

509
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 5: What's my job? My job is to make people feel

510
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 5: less alone. That's it. My job is. That's it. Whether

511
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 5: it's a podcast or the book I write, or you know,

512
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 5: any kind of TV that I make, it's to give

513
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 5: people a feeling that, oh there's other you know, I'm

514
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 5: being connected with here down the lens. And it's something

515
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 5: I work really hard at doing. And same with the

516
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 5: podcast and something I work hard at doing, you know,

517
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 5: vocally at least to give people that sense of connection,

518
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 5: of the sense of intimacy, and you know what is entertainment. Ultimately,

519
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 5: I don't make anything. I don't make a house of

520
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 5: building a house next door to me. These guys get

521
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 5: to the end of the day and go, fucking that's

522
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 5: a good war, boys. It's going to stand for one

523
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 5: hundred years, Yes it will. I make waves of an

524
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 5: electromagnetic spectrum that get thrown out into the air, never

525
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 5: to be seen again. I trade in emotional responses. That's it.

526
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,479
Speaker 5: I'm there to give an emotional reaction. There's a lot

527
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 5: of work that goes into it. And people might think, oh,

528
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 5: what you literally just read out loud for living, especially

529
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 5: if there's an auto keep involved, like if you want

530
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 5: to break it right down. Yes, possibly, Yet there are

531
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 5: There's definitely ways of language and ways of addressing a camera,

532
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 5: and ways of using your voice and ways of the

533
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 5: way you hold your body can change the experience of

534
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 5: the person watching that and make them feel closer or

535
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 5: further away from you. And I work really hard and

536
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 5: I study that shit, and I watch myself back and

537
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 5: I make sure that I get it right, because ultimately

538
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 5: I only get the job if I am the best

539
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 5: choice at the time. And I know there are there's

540
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 5: me twenty years ago, just knowing I just have to go.

541
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,439
Speaker 5: That guy is breathing down my neck, man, and I

542
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 5: have to be I work really hard to stay the

543
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 5: undeniable choice when it comes to these things, all right.

544
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 5: I don't accidentally get these jobs. They give these jobs

545
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 5: to the best person that because it's a business decision

546
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 5: for them too. They want to give it to whoever's

547
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 5: going to give us the best value, the best that's

548
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 5: who we get. And I worked fucking hard to make

549
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 5: sure that I can stay that person and it gives

550
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 5: which is nice. It's going to give me something to

551
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 5: do when the show's aren't.

552
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 4: And when when did the transition come? Usher? From from

553
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 4: andrew Gie to Usher Ginsburg? Was that? Was that Australian idol?

554
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 4: Did you think I was kind of around myself?

555
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was kind of twards the end of that

556
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 5: was towards the end of that, I was, look, I

557
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 5: don't believe in an intervention. That's God, all right. I

558
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 5: you know, went to a school that tried to tell

559
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 5: me there was hell and things like that, and then I,

560
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 5: you know, I actually went to the Middle East and

561
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 5: went hanging a second what what was it? Three hundred

562
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 5: and eighty five was when Helen a Constantine stood here

563
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 5: and pointed at a hole on the ground. So three

564
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 5: hundred and fifty years and hang on with all the

565
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 5: posts of this guy in my school. He was a

566
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 5: white dude. I don't see any white dudes in Nazareth.

567
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 5: What the fuck is this? So? Yeah, ye, anyway, so

568
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 5: I met this guy and we had this kind of

569
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 5: interesting conversation. I met this shaman, and I'm an interest.

570
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 5: I'm interested, all right, I'm interested. I'm not a convert,

571
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 5: but I'm interested. I'm like, Okay, there's something going on here.

572
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 5: I don't know if it's what you say it is,

573
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 5: but there's definitely something happening here. And so he told

574
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 5: me if I changed my name, I changed my life.

575
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 5: And I was like, all right, then if I can't help,

576
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 5: can't hurt. And so privately I did it, I think

577
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 5: two thousand and nine, and I was like, oh, that's interesting.

578
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 5: I think it was more to do with nominative determinism, right,

579
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 5: I think it was more to do with how I

580
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 5: thought about myself, and certainly once I got sober, because

581
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 5: it was a private thing right for a couple of years,

582
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 5: But once I got sober, it was like, ah, it

583
00:28:54,120 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 5: really helped me. It really helped me delineate between the

584
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 5: two versions of the person that I am. Right, there's

585
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 5: a point in the mean. I got sober using a

586
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 5: twelve step program, which I thoroughly recommend. It worked for me.

587
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 5: It doesn't work for everyone. And there's one of those steps.

588
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 5: It's not unlike sitting with you in a in the

589
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 5: tear gas tent and you know it's real hard, but

590
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 5: you're essentially you. There's a searching and feel. It's moral

591
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 5: inventory where you literally look at all the times that

592
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 5: you've been pretty shit to yourself and to others. And

593
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 5: then you have to tell it's another man and you

594
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 5: sit down and you are honest with him and for

595
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 5: the first time, some of this stuff is coming out

596
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 5: of your mouth like you thought you'd never take. You

597
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 5: take it to the grave. But by doing that, what

598
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 5: you're doing and he amazingly and it's you know, you're

599
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 5: able to do it for other people. I'd like to

600
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 5: do it for somebody else. One day they say cool,

601
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 5: manrry that for now. I'll carry that until so you

602
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 5: don't need to carry it for now. And I was like,

603
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 5: but how is anyone going to like me? How am

604
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 5: I ever going to fall in love? How can I

605
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 5: be with myself for this person that did these things?

606
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 5: And he said, like, got good news for your power.

607
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 5: It's from California. I got news for your power. You

608
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 5: get to live the rest of your life not being

609
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 5: that guy anymore. Oh fucking awesome. And so as a

610
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 5: way of part of that step, one of those steps

611
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 5: is to then go and make an amends and meet

612
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 5: the people that you hurt and try, well you can

613
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 5: to make it better unless it's going to cause them harm.

614
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 5: And so there's a few people that I will never

615
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 5: go back into their orbits ever again, for their own

616
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 5: safety and their own good, because it wouldn't be right.

617
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 5: And yet though I get to make amends to them

618
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 5: by just living my life and making choices that were

619
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 5: in the exact opposite direction of the choices I made

620
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 5: that were the ones that hurt myself and hurt people

621
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 5: like them. And so giving the name gave me an

622
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 5: opportunity to change. I looked at the world, but people

623
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 5: ask me about this sometimes and I think, well, I

624
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 5: went to on grade three missus Mss Smith. Miss Smith

625
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 5: said goodbye to us at the end of November December,

626
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 5: see you next year, kids, And missus Carrington was there

627
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 5: in grade four. Same lady, different clothes, different way of

628
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 5: walking through the world. She got married over the summer.

629
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 5: There's one person in this world, and one person alone,

630
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 5: that calls me a name that nobody else call me,

631
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 5: calls me. And because of that way this person calls

632
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 5: me that name, it changes who I am as a

633
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 5: person and changes what I value. And that name is Dad.

634
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 5: So I would put it to you that there's a

635
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 5: lot of people that change their names, and a lot

636
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 5: of people that will understand what it is I'm talking

637
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 5: about when they you know, when they have that name dad,

638
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 5: or when they get married, or if they choose to

639
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 5: take a partner's name or whatever. Particularly if you're a parent,

640
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 5: Mum or Dad. Changes you feel about the world when

641
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 5: that name comes your way, not like oh fuck, come on, mate,

642
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 5: you can wash your own ass, not that. When it's like,

643
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 5: what's trust dad to tell Wolf this morning? But he's

644
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 5: four and a half, Like, okay, trust is here? We

645
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 5: go I'm just trying to tell and so yeah, that's

646
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 5: kind of why that was there, and it's been really useful.

647
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 5: I thoroughly recommended. I mean, Calvin Broadhouse is not in

648
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 5: your playlist, but Snoop Dogg is Osha Jackson is. No,

649
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 5: you don't know who that. You know, you don't care,

650
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 5: but he's actually on my desk as that's ice Q.

651
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, and so what does osha mean?

652
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 5: That's the Hebrew words for happiness.

653
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 4: Wow, that's super cool.

654
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 3: You talked about the drugs and alcohol. Was that as

655
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 3: worse post or pre Australian idol?

656
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 5: I was, you know, as someone who's struggled with a lot,

657
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,239
Speaker 5: with anxiety and various other things as well. Yeah, I

658
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 5: was yet to discover that stuff. Man. You know, I

659
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 5: was offered antidepressants when I was twenty five, when I've

660
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 5: been in to Sydney for six months and it was

661
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 5: real bad, and I went to go see a doctor

662
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 5: and he said, yeah, this is what's going on for

663
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 5: you. You need to be on any presence. I'm like, fuck that, man,

664
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 5: I don't mean it with a kind of guy that

665
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 5: needs to take anti depressants, No, thank you. I just

666
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 5: have a beer like a man. Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah,

667
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 5: and so yeah, like you know what happens to you know,

668
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 5: untreated anxiety that you're self medicating with alcohol, it just

669
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 5: gets way worse. And so there was this one day

670
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 5: about seven years later. I was I was had discovered

671
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 5: by this point that physicality and moving my body made

672
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 5: my head feel better. But literally I could not outrun it.

673
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 5: At some point it gets so bad. I can't outrun it.

674
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 5: Nothing I can do it can make my head feel

675
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 5: any different. Actually, I was running in the soft sound

676
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 5: on BONDI I don't know. I was like there was

677
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 5: a bad afternoon. So I was like nine laps in

678
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 5: and I was like doing going to do ten k's

679
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 5: of soft sand that day, and I felt like someone

680
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 5: had grabbed me around the throat and they had my

681
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,280
Speaker 5: fucking larynx in their hands. I felt someone touching my skin.

682
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 5: There was nobody there, and I felt the constriction the

683
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 5: touch on my I was like, fuck, this is bad,

684
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 5: and I ran up the hill. I got on the

685
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 5: phone and I caught my doctor and I went straight

686
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 5: to his office and you could hear it in my voice.

687
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:39,240
Speaker 5: They stayed open. They let me in late, and I begged,

688
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 5: please give me the drugs and they take a while.

689
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 5: They would have worked had I not been still drinking,

690
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 5: because all I did was just pissed them out. But

691
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 5: eventually it got so bad that I had to had

692
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 5: to stop. And yeah, there's a I got really like.

693
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 5: It wasn't like one particularly massively humongous night. It was

694
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,439
Speaker 5: just it's just another fucking night, right, but yeah, where

695
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 5: but they had been getting progressively worse, and I it

696
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 5: had been a long time. I could not remember at

697
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 5: all the last day I hadn't drank. It would have

698
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 5: been years by that point, and it was no longer

699
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,439
Speaker 5: a choice for me to drink. It was like as if,

700
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 5: for example, you know, we're on fucking deep recon Way

701
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 5: in the Philippine jungle and a massive Maussie bites you

702
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 5: on the forum and I'll say, man, if you slap that,

703
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 5: you'll give away our position, but it's itching so badly

704
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 5: you can't and eventually go bang because you can't not

705
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 5: hit it right. And it's that like I didn't want

706
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 5: to do this, but I was unable to not do it.

707
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 5: It was like so one of our kids as a

708
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 5: pen analogy, right, it's not anaphylactic, thankfully, but they can

709
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 5: get really sick. Now, if I tell you, hey, and

710
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 5: you know we're coming over, but one of the kids

711
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 5: is a penaalogy, there's no fucking way you'd get any

712
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 5: peanuts anywhere near them, right, because you can kill a child. Right.

713
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 5: So similarly, with the tiniest amount of a trace element

714
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 5: of peanut will kill somebody. So similarly, the tiny a

715
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 5: molecule of alcohol touches my body, touches in my tongue,

716
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 5: and I'll have an allergic reaction. And that allergic reaction

717
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 5: what it will do is it instantly, It stops me.

718
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 5: It changes how much I think is a good idea

719
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 5: to drink, and also it changes my sense of right

720
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 5: and wrong, and I will keep having this allergily. It's

721
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 5: like if someone starts breaking out in hives because they

722
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 5: brushed up against a plant or something, say, excuse me,

723
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 5: can you please just stop breaking out in weltz? They can't.

724
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 5: Their body's just doing this thing. So I can't stop

725
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 5: everything that is happening. I cannot stop that allergic reaction

726
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 5: until the alcohol wears off, which is sometimes the next day,

727
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 5: sometimes later. And so similarly, like if I have this allergy,

728
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 5: if I drink, I break out and funck with like similarly,

729
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 5: not everyone's like this.

730
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,479
Speaker 3: I love the way that you lay out in layman's terms.

731
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 3: It's almost to kick yourself moment you're like, wow, you

732
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 3: know that's that's me the majority of the time. When

733
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 3: I drink, that's me when I do this.

734
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 5: When I do I try a thousand different ways. I

735
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 5: tried a thousand different ways to try to make it

736
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 5: in it better, but every single it was fun. And

737
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 5: then it was fun with problems, and it was just

738
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 5: problems and it was unable to stop up rappening, and

739
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 5: I just kind of realized that I'm you know, there

740
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 5: was that loud Sue line, I think, be careful of

741
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 5: the direction you're headed. You may just end up there.

742
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 5: And I just kind of work up one morning going

743
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 5: I'm going to die if I keep doing this, I'll

744
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 5: either get arrested or was like, no matter what, it's

745
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,760
Speaker 5: gonna I can't. Eventually this is I'm going to forget

746
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 5: because I was toying. I prescription painkillers are a part

747
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 5: of it. Benzos were a part of it. Like I'm

748
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 5: going to be that fucking guy that forgot. He has

749
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 5: already taken his value, you know, and then have a

750
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 5: couple more drinks and they go normally take value this

751
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 5: time of night, and then ooks tod eighty goodbye, and

752
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 5: that's you know, And so I just realized I had

753
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 5: to stop, but I couldn't again. I didn't want to

754
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 5: be a guy that couldn't drink, So I had to

755
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 5: trick my own brain to go, it's cool, man, We're

756
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 5: just gonna not drink until you have a responsible relationship

757
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 5: with that, all right. But it was only a couple

758
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 5: of weeks and then I was like, oh, I can

759
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 5: never do that again. Look, I know that if I

760
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 5: had a drink today and it's been fourteen years and

761
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 5: four months or something like that, if I had a

762
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 5: drink today, like, it won't be tomorrow, and it might

763
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 5: not be next week. But I can guarantee you by Christmas,

764
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 5: everything that I've built is gone. And I'm not willing

765
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 5: to risk that. I'm not willing to do that, you know,

766
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 5: because I know I can't stop it once it starts.

767
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 3: Do you know what, I think a lot of people

768
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 3: should take take this. I say warning it because there's

769
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 3: a lot of people that actually go through that, but

770
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 3: they go, oh, do you know what, I'm not going

771
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 3: to let alcohol control me.

772
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 4: Nothing can control me. And it's like, I love what

773
00:38:58,600 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 4: you just said.

774
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 3: Then you know that if you start drinking, everything that

775
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 3: you've built up to now comes crumbling down. Old fucking

776
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 3: story made it happen so many times I've been there.

777
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,879
Speaker 5: It sneaks out. It sneaks out like there was while there,

778
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 5: because it sneaks out in other things. Right I was,

779
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 5: you know at six fifteen am, I think I'm sitting

780
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 5: on the toilet on a fucking mobile betting app, putting

781
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 5: a multi on a fucking horse that is going to

782
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 5: run in Hong Kong. It's like, what the fuck am

783
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 5: I doing? Tying this to a Singaporean table tennis thing?

784
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 5: What a like? So the profit, the profiteering of addiction

785
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 5: in our country is just so shit house and it's

786
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 5: just reprehensible how many billions dollars are made off addiction,

787
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 5: and all it is is people who are It's an

788
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 5: avoidant behavior, an avoidant behavior trying to because the uncomfortable

789
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 5: feelings are just too overwhelming. So I'd rather stimulate myself

790
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 5: with this thing and deal with thinking about or work

791
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 5: on what happened to me. There are billions of dollars

792
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 5: getting taken out of people's grocery budgets on gambling and

793
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 5: alcohol in this country, but fucking we don't care. And

794
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 5: yet we get upset at people for being shit and

795
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 5: you know, shit parents and spending all their money and like, man,

796
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 5: fuck you. You know, there's so much pain. There's so

797
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 5: much pain and there's way better ways to deal with it,

798
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 5: but there's so much money being made out of that

799
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 5: pain and so much money.

800
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 3: You say you use your career as a coping mechanism

801
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:28,399
Speaker 3: to do all this.

802
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 4: Wow, that's that's the time. Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's.

803
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 5: Very different now, it's very very different now. Like before

804
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 5: I got sober, that was it. I just wanted to

805
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 5: reach for that moment. But then after getting sober that

806
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 5: my man, David, he's very much like man's chop would

807
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 5: carry water. Dude, Just fucking be a worker amongst workers.

808
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 5: You don't have to be the super fucking star. Just

809
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 5: be a guy that people can rely on and everything

810
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 5: else will work out. And he's right.

811
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 3: I think that's where you build trust, Right, is reliability

812
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 3: When you can rely on someone's that's where trust also

813
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 3: has belt. Oh come whenne is dude, he's going to

814
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 3: turn up, he's going to give the best. He's going

815
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 3: to put one hundred percent in a day. Everything he does,

816
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 3: there's no distractions, there's no excuses.

817
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 4: He's going to get on and do it.

818
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 5: But it's also about being there for everybody else, right,

819
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 5: the other one hundred and fifteen people that I mentioned,

820
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 5: you know, I just I came to the idea of, like,

821
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 5: if I can make everyone's day the easiest day they've

822
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,439
Speaker 5: ever had on set, and if I have them thinking

823
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 5: that's the most professional guy I've ever worked with when

824
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 5: they leave, then what that will make is that I

825
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 5: will have done the very best I could have ever done.

826
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 5: But I'm not doing it for me. I'm doing it

827
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 5: for them. I'm doing it so I've got my words

828
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 5: all done. I know exactly how to get the right

829
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 5: reaction out of somebody. I know exactly. I've spoken to

830
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 5: the producers about what storylines are following. I know who's

831
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 5: you know, triangulated with who. I don't know where the

832
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 5: emotion is. I know exactly where the cameras are, I

833
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 5: know where the lights are.

834
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 4: You know.

835
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 5: Bang, I hit it and I quit it, I mean

836
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 5: and out, all right, We're not doing it seventeen times

837
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,399
Speaker 5: because we can't because excuse me, can you just cry

838
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 5: once again? Please, because we fucked the line and just

839
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,720
Speaker 5: pretend you got told you've got broken up with Please

840
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 5: can't do that. And it takes a lot of work.

841
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 5: But if I'm doing it for everybody else on set,

842
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 5: including the people who are watching, then that's way better.

843
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 5: And it's not about me. But I end up benefiting

844
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 5: from it because I end up doing absolutely did you do?

845
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 4: Oh?

846
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 3: And the proof is in the pudding? Because you were

847
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 3: nominated for a Golden Logan. Let's talk about you know,

848
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 3: I love I love your journey and people don't realize

849
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 3: the iceberg effect of what goes on underneath all the

850
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 3: hard work sacrifice that we've spoken about.

851
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 4: What was it like geting nominated for me?

852
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 5: Well, to be honestly like, it was an extraordinary It

853
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 5: was an extraordinary honor and it was you know again

854
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 5: who it is. There was none a hope in ill

855
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,320
Speaker 5: that they would have ever happened ever had I'm not

856
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 5: you know, got much shit together right, no fucking way

857
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 5: and trophy or no who I became to be the

858
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 5: person that got nominated for that thing. I get to

859
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 5: keep forever, right, And.

860
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 4: That's nice, yes, sort of come back full circle.

861
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 3: That has almost proven that, Wow, if you if I

862
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 3: hadn't done this, and I haven't, you know, changed the

863
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 3: way that I am and who I am, then.

864
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 5: Truly at this moment to look at that, like to

865
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 5: look at people like like I can't compare myself to

866
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 5: everyone who I've been nominated with, but you know, to

867
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 5: look at people like Blake and macrliff, who I just

868
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 5: I just amazing, Julia Morris, unfucking believably talented. Right to

869
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 5: be seen in the same category literally as those guys

870
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 5: is as good as it gets, right. But I got

871
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 5: to tell you that just because I stopped drinking and

872
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 5: using and doing all a dumb shit doesn't mean that

873
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 5: that guy is still inside going come on, man, he's

874
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 5: really good ready, Like that's still there. You just find

875
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 5: better ways to deal with it, right, And you know,

876
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 5: we talk about practice, We talk about rehearsing, and I

877
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 5: sat in We're in my office, right, I sat here

878
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 5: and I practiced losing a LOGI because what happens when

879
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 5: you lose an award. They've got that fucking shudden for it,

880
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 5: a camera up your nostrils. They're looking for the micro

881
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 5: expressions of derision and hate, you know, a little thing

882
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 5: that flashes across your eyes and oh, he's fucking gutted. No,

883
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 5: I didn't want a second of that at all, because

884
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 5: anyone that stood there and hold that thing in their

885
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 5: hands would have deserved it, and I didn't want them

886
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 5: ever think anyway. So I literally sat here at my

887
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 5: desk behind me, and I would practice over and over

888
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 5: again in my mind, imagining Hamu's black. And then there's

889
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 5: a kind of meditation that I like to do. It's

890
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 5: called meta. It's called loving kindness meditation, where you truly

891
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 5: wish nothing but the best for a person who might be,

892
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 5: you know, a bit of a shit in your life.

893
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 5: And I would sit there and I would just feel

894
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 5: as hard as I could in my body, just the

895
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 5: true most amount of incredible, legitimate joy, because I know

896
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 5: how hard it would have, how much work it's taken

897
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 5: me to get to this. They would have done exactly

898
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 5: the same or more, and probably more because they won

899
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 5: the fucking thing. It's god damn good on you. You

900
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 5: deserve that. And I kept doing it and doing and

901
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 5: doing until I just truly connected with how wonderfully proud.

902
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 5: I was ever every single one of these people, and

903
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 5: so sure enough when Darryl Summers came out and shouted

904
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 5: Sonya Creer got on the top of his lungs, I

905
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 5: was just I'm so happy for her. That's what I

906
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 5: got out of that is Like it was hard, man.

907
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:36,959
Speaker 5: I had to wrestle my ego to the ground because

908
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,720
Speaker 5: it was like I would my brain would be writing

909
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 5: acceptance speeches when I was, you know, riding, I was like,

910
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,399
Speaker 5: and this is for you, mister Johnson and grade nine,

911
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 5: fuck you forever tillaments like that was all happening, man,

912
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 5: like it was, and I was like, thanks, buddy. I'd

913
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 5: have to literally say to their thoughts, I appreciate that,

914
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 5: thank you. I'll take I'll take it as noted, but

915
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 5: that's not gonna happenpreciate that. I'll write it down. Thank you.

916
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 5: The noise man, oh my god, I've just laugh at it.

917
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 5: After a while, I'd be like, that's hilarious. Really are

918
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 5: going to go give this is things that seventeen minut

919
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 5: long speech by now the orchest John Forman is going

920
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 5: to play off. It's not going to happen exactly, but

921
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 5: I ended up you know, we had a great night

922
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 5: and you know, my wife and I danced and then

923
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 5: we went to bed and she ate Kung Power Chicken

924
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 5: at three in the morning.

925
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 3: There you go, It doesn't get much better than that, mate,

926
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 3: Happy with that? And one final question for I love

927
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 3: you and leave you, mate, What is next for you?

928
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 3: I know you're writing books, you've got your podcast, your

929
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 3: mental health advocate, obviously because of the experience that you've been.

930
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's important that you look. You can't be what

931
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 5: you can't see. And you know, I remember when I

932
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 5: first started, you know, publicly talking about having experienced psychosis,

933
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 5: people just couldn't fucking believe that it came out of

934
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 5: my mouth, right because look, I remember how much I've

935
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 5: already described. There was self stigma that stopped me from

936
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 5: getting help because I didn't want to be the kind

937
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,280
Speaker 5: of guy that needed help, and self stigma that stopped

938
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 5: me from I'd try to stop drinking a lot, but

939
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 5: I didn't want to be the guy that had to

940
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 5: stop drinking. So the only way that I ever got

941
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 5: better was by hearing stories of other people that were

942
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 5: once where I was and were now somewhere I wanted

943
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 5: to be. And I'm just trying to That's why I

944
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 5: started the podcast in twenty thirteen, just to like, I

945
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 5: just want to be able to give what was given

946
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 5: to me. And that's it. And so yeah, I mean,

947
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 5: this is this really interesting time in broadcasting, man, where

948
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 5: it's either the most terrifying time to be in broadcasting

949
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 5: the most amazing time to be in broadcasting. And I'm

950
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:36,240
Speaker 5: I have a particular set of skills.

951
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 7: You know, are they useful to people who have multimari

952
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 7: intollar broadcast licenses that they're trying to, you know, create

953
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 7: business models around your leveraging for profit?

954
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 5: Probably not? Right now, does that mean that I'm not

955
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:54,839
Speaker 5: able to then create something? I mean, there's a few

956
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 5: times in my life I don't think I've ever no,

957
00:47:58,280 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 5: I've described one moment. There was another moment that had

958
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 5: later on. I've always swum out to the boat man

959
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 5: always the comment's not going to come by and take

960
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 5: you on a fucking whirl wind trip through the galaxy

961
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 5: if you're not in the path of the comet. Like,

962
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,879
Speaker 5: no one's going to come down my front pathway, knock

963
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 5: on my front door and say, hey, man, you know

964
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 5: that show you always wanted to host, It's ready there's

965
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 5: three hundred people in the studio and there's seventeen cameras

966
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 5: and we're ready to go. No, you've got to build it.

967
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 5: And that's kind of how it was before Bachelor. I

968
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 5: was unemployed. I was forty. I was unemployed, and I

969
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 5: created a show and I sold the show to the

970
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 5: network and it was in the dating space. And while

971
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 5: I was producing that and getting ready to make that,

972
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:37,879
Speaker 5: they go, we just pulled the Bachelor. Do you want

973
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 5: to do that? Yes?

974
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 3: I do.

975
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 5: And so similarly, like that's again where I am. Now.

976
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 5: I'm in the point where I'm like creating the next

977
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 5: big TV job. The podcast is fucking great, and I'm

978
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 5: able to do some because now I'm no longer how

979
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 5: do we put this in the clauses in contracts that

980
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 5: mean you want't? I think the word is disrepute. So

981
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 5: I'm able to come. I guess I'm cover some different

982
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:05,359
Speaker 5: stuff now, which is nice. Now you're free. So yeah,

983
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 5: it's very much as it's an opportunity to you know,

984
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 5: the gigs that I've done, and i'd like, you know,

985
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,800
Speaker 5: I've never been they've never been about me. The shows

986
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 5: that I work on, I'm just literally there for exposition.

987
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,720
Speaker 5: I'm there to lay pipe, man, that's it. Those jobs

988
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 5: like I'm not a part of the artwork. I'm not

989
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 5: on the side of the bus, you know. I'm just

990
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 5: the guy that's there to drop the business and then

991
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 5: give the reasons as to why this thing is important

992
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 5: and then I fuck off.

993
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 3: Well you're doing an outstanding job with it, mate, and

994
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 3: your career as as certainly led you to these moments.

995
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 5: I appreciate that.

996
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 3: I love it.

997
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you so

998
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 4: much for joining me on Headgame.

999
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 3: If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you're subscribed so

1000
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 3: you don't miss any of our incredible stories, and leave

1001
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,240
Speaker 3: me a review wherever you're listening.

1002
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 4: I'm Att Middleton. Catch you a again next time.

1003
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 5: M mhm