1 00:00:03,670 --> 00:00:06,960 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. It 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,460 Sean Aylmer: doesn't matter if you're an investor, a homeowner, or a 3 00:00:09,460 --> 00:00:12,280 Sean Aylmer: retiree with savings in the bank, the big story in 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,990 Sean Aylmer: the past week has been interest rates. The Reserve Bank 5 00:00:14,990 --> 00:00:18,040 Sean Aylmer: increased the official cash rate by 25 basis points here 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,810 Sean Aylmer: in Australia. In the US, the Federal Reserve increased rates 7 00:00:20,810 --> 00:00:23,709 Sean Aylmer: by 50 basis points. Meanwhile, the Bank of England warned 8 00:00:23,710 --> 00:00:27,640 Sean Aylmer: that the economic outlook was deteriorating. It all comes back 9 00:00:27,850 --> 00:00:30,840 Sean Aylmer: to inflation, but how far will central banks need to 10 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,240 Sean Aylmer: go, and what does it all mean for investors? Scott 11 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,500 Sean Aylmer: Haslem is the chief investment officer at Crestone Wealth Management. 12 00:00:36,500 --> 00:00:37,670 Sean Aylmer: Scott, welcome back to Fear and Greed. 13 00:00:38,890 --> 00:00:39,290 Scott Haslem: Thanks, Sean. 14 00:00:40,420 --> 00:00:43,070 Sean Aylmer: What is going on, Scott? What is going on? What 15 00:00:43,070 --> 00:00:43,500 Sean Aylmer: a week? 16 00:00:44,030 --> 00:00:48,519 Scott Haslem: It has been reasonably brutal, I would say in markets. 17 00:00:49,610 --> 00:00:53,130 Scott Haslem: As you said in your introduction, rising interest rates, but 18 00:00:53,130 --> 00:00:56,490 Scott Haslem: I would say more so, fear of inflation and the 19 00:00:56,490 --> 00:00:58,980 Scott Haslem: fact that central banks have just left it too late 20 00:00:59,550 --> 00:01:03,550 Scott Haslem: is really what's making markets very nervous at this point 21 00:01:03,550 --> 00:01:04,050 Scott Haslem: in time. 22 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:06,800 Sean Aylmer: Something over the past week which has really come to the 23 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,240 Sean Aylmer: fore and something that economists like you talk about all 24 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:11,500 Sean Aylmer: the time, but the rest of us probably don't think 25 00:01:11,500 --> 00:01:15,550 Sean Aylmer: enough about is, is it fear of inflation, its expectations? 26 00:01:15,810 --> 00:01:18,510 Sean Aylmer: So it's actually what people think are going to happen 27 00:01:18,590 --> 00:01:22,080 Sean Aylmer: or expect central banks to do, as opposed to the 28 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:23,309 Sean Aylmer: day they do it almost. 29 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,959 Scott Haslem: Yeah, so there's a couple of things there that are 30 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,459 Scott Haslem: pretty interesting to touch on. First one is, if we 31 00:01:30,470 --> 00:01:33,050 Scott Haslem: cast our minds back to the last 5 or 10 32 00:01:33,050 --> 00:01:37,660 Scott Haslem: years prior to the past 12 months, we've been in 33 00:01:37,660 --> 00:01:41,130 Scott Haslem: a world where central banks have struggled to get inflation 34 00:01:41,130 --> 00:01:47,260 Scott Haslem: higher, and in that environment, they underachieved their inflation targets, 35 00:01:47,330 --> 00:01:50,410 Scott Haslem: keeping it with inflation too low and that's part of 36 00:01:50,410 --> 00:01:53,590 Scott Haslem: the reason interest rates were very low. So when we 37 00:01:53,590 --> 00:01:57,560 Scott Haslem: started going through the recovery, central banks have sort of 38 00:01:58,050 --> 00:02:00,910 Scott Haslem: threw out of the window what they've been doing for 39 00:02:00,910 --> 00:02:03,870 Scott Haslem: the last 20 or 30 years, which is what we call preemptive 40 00:02:03,870 --> 00:02:08,540 Scott Haslem: or forward- looking inflation, and basically said they were going to be reactive 41 00:02:08,750 --> 00:02:13,700 Scott Haslem: and not move rates until inflation was in or above 42 00:02:13,700 --> 00:02:17,480 Scott Haslem: their target. You'll remember Phil Lowe through Australia's RBA telling 43 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,220 Scott Haslem: us they weren't moving interest rates until April 2024? Well, 44 00:02:21,220 --> 00:02:24,930 Scott Haslem: it's May 2022 and they've already gone up. So I 45 00:02:24,930 --> 00:02:29,959 Scott Haslem: think the fact that central banks have moved away from forward- 46 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:34,609 Scott Haslem: looking policy and had very reactive policy, we've been caught 47 00:02:34,610 --> 00:02:37,720 Scott Haslem: here with more inflation than expected and now central banks 48 00:02:37,950 --> 00:02:40,760 Scott Haslem: probably are trying to catch up from a position where 49 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,049 Scott Haslem: we are arguably living through one of the worst central 50 00:02:44,050 --> 00:02:48,180 Scott Haslem: bank inflation forecasting errors in modern monetary history. 51 00:02:48,630 --> 00:02:54,270 Sean Aylmer: Ouch. Look, let's start with the local economy. The aforementioned 52 00:02:54,270 --> 00:02:58,929 Sean Aylmer: Phil Lowe had talked a lot about transitory inflation. What 53 00:02:58,930 --> 00:03:01,240 Sean Aylmer: happened to that argument? We know that they're lifting interest 54 00:03:01,250 --> 00:03:03,620 Sean Aylmer: rates to keep a lid on inflation. Is it not 55 00:03:03,620 --> 00:03:05,290 Sean Aylmer: quite as transitory as we thought? 56 00:03:05,870 --> 00:03:09,669 Scott Haslem: Well, I think that's right. I think it isn't quite as transitory as 57 00:03:09,669 --> 00:03:14,030 Scott Haslem: we thought, but I would say two things. Firstly, part 58 00:03:14,030 --> 00:03:17,440 Scott Haslem: of that lack of transitory nature of inflation is because 59 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,609 Scott Haslem: we've probably taken too long to get interest rates up, 60 00:03:22,270 --> 00:03:25,480 Scott Haslem: but the second point I would make is, I would 61 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:29,270 Scott Haslem: still argue there's a fair amount of transitory inflation in 62 00:03:29,460 --> 00:03:32,350 Scott Haslem: there. We've just stopped talking about it and we've just 63 00:03:32,350 --> 00:03:36,100 Scott Haslem: lost faith that what we've seen over the last 12 64 00:03:36,100 --> 00:03:39,190 Scott Haslem: months in terms of the impact of the pandemic on 65 00:03:39,190 --> 00:03:44,390 Scott Haslem: supply chains, the developments in Russia- Ukraine, that these things are 66 00:03:44,390 --> 00:03:47,690 Scott Haslem: having temporary impacts on inflation. I think they are still 67 00:03:47,690 --> 00:03:51,950 Scott Haslem: having significant temporary impacts on inflation and I think inflation 68 00:03:51,950 --> 00:03:55,110 Scott Haslem: will come down over the next 12 months. I think 69 00:03:55,110 --> 00:03:55,810 Scott Haslem: the question will be, where does it settle? 70 00:03:57,660 --> 00:04:00,020 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So the question for most of us and most 71 00:04:00,020 --> 00:04:02,770 Sean Aylmer: of us with mortgages, is how far interest rates will 72 00:04:02,770 --> 00:04:06,110 Sean Aylmer: rise? So starting with Australia, how far do you think 73 00:04:06,290 --> 00:04:06,820 Sean Aylmer: they'll go? 74 00:04:07,500 --> 00:04:08,830 Scott Haslem: Well, it depends who you ask, Sean. 75 00:04:09,010 --> 00:04:09,040 Sean Aylmer: Yes. 76 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:15,010 Scott Haslem: If you ask the futures market, the answer is 4%, which 77 00:04:15,010 --> 00:04:16,620 Scott Haslem: seems extraordinarily high. 78 00:04:16,620 --> 00:04:16,640 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 79 00:04:18,010 --> 00:04:24,110 Scott Haslem: If you ask economists, the answer is 2% and that seems 80 00:04:24,190 --> 00:04:27,390 Scott Haslem: to me to be a little bit more reasonable, but 81 00:04:27,390 --> 00:04:31,250 Scott Haslem: that's predicated on a view that at least some of 82 00:04:31,260 --> 00:04:33,640 Scott Haslem: the inflation we are seeing and may see over the 83 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,659 Scott Haslem: coming months will reverse course when some of the pressures 84 00:04:37,660 --> 00:04:40,700 Scott Haslem: that have driven it there, also start to reverse. So 85 00:04:40,700 --> 00:04:43,020 Scott Haslem: I think interest rates are probably going to go up 86 00:04:43,020 --> 00:04:45,400 Scott Haslem: a few more times in the next few months. You would expect the 87 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,409 Scott Haslem: RBA to move again 25 basis points in June. They 88 00:04:49,410 --> 00:04:53,219 Scott Haslem: will possibly go again in July. I think what we 89 00:04:53,220 --> 00:04:57,610 Scott Haslem: are likely to see is the cash rate, which was 0. 90 00:04:57,610 --> 00:05:03,840 Scott Haslem: 1 a week or so ago, get up to sort of 1.25, 1.3, 1. 4, 91 00:05:04,270 --> 00:05:06,909 Scott Haslem: by the end of this year or early next year, 92 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,870 Scott Haslem: and then it'll probably go up a bit more next 93 00:05:09,870 --> 00:05:12,849 Scott Haslem: year at a slower rate, but I think estimates at 94 00:05:12,850 --> 00:05:17,029 Scott Haslem: around somewhere between 1. 75 to 2 would be a 95 00:05:17,029 --> 00:05:21,390 Scott Haslem: reasonable place to think interest rates are going, but obviously, 96 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,370 Scott Haslem: different people have different views. The market is saying it's 97 00:05:24,370 --> 00:05:26,350 Scott Haslem: going to go a lot higher. What we need to 98 00:05:26,350 --> 00:05:29,429 Scott Haslem: get is a little bit of comfort that inflation's going 99 00:05:29,430 --> 00:05:30,980 Scott Haslem: to start slowing at some point. 100 00:05:31,380 --> 00:05:33,160 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Scott, we'll be back in a minute. 101 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,610 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Scott Haslem, chief investment officer 102 00:05:41,610 --> 00:05:45,810 Sean Aylmer: at Crestone Wealth Management. Okay, so part of the reason 103 00:05:45,810 --> 00:05:47,810 Sean Aylmer: the Reserve Bank's doing this is that we had the 104 00:05:47,810 --> 00:05:51,210 Sean Aylmer: pandemic and interest rates fell to abnormally low levels. So 105 00:05:51,210 --> 00:05:53,810 Sean Aylmer: they're getting them back to more normal levels. Part of 106 00:05:53,810 --> 00:05:56,690 Sean Aylmer: the reason is because the economy's actually doing okay. We 107 00:05:56,690 --> 00:05:59,960 Sean Aylmer: are growing. The question I have, can the Reserve Bank 108 00:06:00,050 --> 00:06:03,510 Sean Aylmer: do this without culling growth too much? 109 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,640 Scott Haslem: Well, history is not on our side, Sean, in terms 110 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:11,020 Scott Haslem: of the central bank's ability globally and in Australia to 111 00:06:11,210 --> 00:06:14,560 Scott Haslem: thread the needle, as they say, in terms of slowing 112 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,479 Scott Haslem: growth enough to pull inflation back, and therefore, not drive 113 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,380 Scott Haslem: the economy into a recession. I think the odds are 114 00:06:22,380 --> 00:06:25,529 Scott Haslem: higher this time that they will be able to do 115 00:06:25,529 --> 00:06:29,330 Scott Haslem: this and I think when we look at what I 116 00:06:29,330 --> 00:06:33,210 Scott Haslem: still believe to be a significant amount of transitory inflation, 117 00:06:33,210 --> 00:06:35,909 Scott Haslem: so if we take inflation in the US at 8%, 118 00:06:35,910 --> 00:06:39,890 Scott Haslem: I think at least half of that is transitory. In 119 00:06:39,890 --> 00:06:44,140 Scott Haslem: Australia's case, inflation at 5%, some of that, maybe a 120 00:06:44,140 --> 00:06:46,900 Scott Haslem: bit less, a couple of percent of that's probably transitory 121 00:06:47,370 --> 00:06:52,190 Scott Haslem: as well. So I think that's an environment where if 122 00:06:52,190 --> 00:06:56,020 Scott Haslem: we get that easing back in inflation, central bank fear 123 00:06:56,500 --> 00:06:59,089 Scott Haslem: and the amount central banks have to do could also come back a 124 00:06:59,089 --> 00:07:02,930 Scott Haslem: little bit and that could increase the likelihood that we 125 00:07:02,930 --> 00:07:06,409 Scott Haslem: can not have to tighten interest rates so much to 126 00:07:06,410 --> 00:07:08,070 Scott Haslem: drive the economy into a recession. 127 00:07:08,940 --> 00:07:11,590 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Just looking globally now, in the US, we have 128 00:07:11,820 --> 00:07:14,810 Sean Aylmer: rising interest rates and a share market that goes up 129 00:07:14,810 --> 00:07:17,910 Sean Aylmer: and down by 3 or 4% in a session, and 130 00:07:17,910 --> 00:07:20,730 Sean Aylmer: quite incredible. Last week we had the Bank of England 131 00:07:20,730 --> 00:07:24,970 Sean Aylmer: warning about the outlook, worried about energy prices particularly. We 132 00:07:24,970 --> 00:07:26,850 Sean Aylmer: have China and lots of economists saying, well, they're not 133 00:07:26,850 --> 00:07:30,080 Sean Aylmer: going to reach their 5.5% growth rate because of their zero- 134 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:35,870 Sean Aylmer: tolerance COVID policy, and Australia obviously relies a lot on 135 00:07:35,870 --> 00:07:38,270 Sean Aylmer: China because we sell a lot of stuff to China. 136 00:07:39,700 --> 00:07:41,830 Sean Aylmer: Looking outside our borders, it just doesn't look that good at 137 00:07:41,830 --> 00:07:42,679 Sean Aylmer: the moment, Scott. 138 00:07:43,310 --> 00:07:47,870 Scott Haslem: No, it is a very difficult global environment. It's a 139 00:07:47,870 --> 00:07:52,690 Scott Haslem: difficult investing environment and I think in contrast to the 140 00:07:52,690 --> 00:07:58,400 Scott Haslem: 2020 pandemic where, it's easy to look back and say 141 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:02,390 Scott Haslem: that was manageable, but it was to some extent a 142 00:08:02,700 --> 00:08:06,390 Scott Haslem: pandemic, a health issue that caused economies to shut down, 143 00:08:06,670 --> 00:08:08,520 Scott Haslem: and we knew that if we could find a vaccine, 144 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,540 Scott Haslem: they would open up again. I think at the moment, 145 00:08:11,180 --> 00:08:14,910 Scott Haslem: the position of the world is a little bit more 146 00:08:15,260 --> 00:08:18,570 Scott Haslem: problematic. We are asking some big questions. Are we at 147 00:08:18,570 --> 00:08:21,900 Scott Haslem: the end of 30 years of hyper- globalization and falling 148 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:26,320 Scott Haslem: interest rates and inflation? I think we've spent 80 years 149 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,790 Scott Haslem: since the end of the Second World War in a 150 00:08:28,950 --> 00:08:33,610 Scott Haslem: reasonably calm geopolitical environment. So I think there are some big 151 00:08:33,610 --> 00:08:37,449 Scott Haslem: questions that are really impacting the outlook, but I think 152 00:08:37,450 --> 00:08:40,340 Scott Haslem: if you put it together like that, it does sound 153 00:08:41,309 --> 00:08:44,270 Scott Haslem: pretty ordinary, but I think on the same hand, if 154 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:49,150 Scott Haslem: we got some resolution in the Russia Ukraine situation, that 155 00:08:49,150 --> 00:08:52,780 Scott Haslem: it could at least level out and see some retracement 156 00:08:52,780 --> 00:08:56,010 Scott Haslem: in the price of energy, and we started to see 157 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,980 Scott Haslem: inflation pressures and supply chains and ports ease up a 158 00:08:59,980 --> 00:09:03,480 Scott Haslem: little bit, allowing inflation to come down and central banks 159 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,990 Scott Haslem: not to have to increase interest rates as far as people are 160 00:09:06,990 --> 00:09:10,990 Scott Haslem: anticipating, I think we can still find a central case 161 00:09:10,990 --> 00:09:13,929 Scott Haslem: here where growth is okay but not as high as 162 00:09:13,929 --> 00:09:17,880 Scott Haslem: we thought it would be. Inflation is lower but higher 163 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,210 Scott Haslem: than we thought it would be, and that we can still see moderate 164 00:09:21,210 --> 00:09:23,950 Scott Haslem: returns in markets through the second half of the year. 165 00:09:24,210 --> 00:09:27,960 Scott Haslem: I think it's a reasonable outcome, but we are probably one or two 166 00:09:28,540 --> 00:09:33,130 Scott Haslem: months away from being confident that our view that inflation 167 00:09:33,130 --> 00:09:36,020 Scott Haslem: will start to moderate over the coming months, is the 168 00:09:36,020 --> 00:09:36,569 Scott Haslem: right view. 169 00:09:37,230 --> 00:09:39,850 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So as an investor, how should I be thinking 170 00:09:39,850 --> 00:09:42,170 Sean Aylmer: about this? If I have a million dollars in my 171 00:09:42,170 --> 00:09:46,800 Sean Aylmer: back pocket and I'm wondering how to invest that, where 172 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,320 Sean Aylmer: do I start given this economic backdrop? 173 00:09:49,780 --> 00:09:54,130 Scott Haslem: Well, I think if you are an investor who is 174 00:09:54,190 --> 00:09:58,030 Scott Haslem: already in the market, then I think we would be 175 00:09:58,410 --> 00:10:04,010 Scott Haslem: focusing very much on reducing risk, making sure that our 176 00:10:04,010 --> 00:10:09,329 Scott Haslem: portfolios are diversified, and this is the key. When you 177 00:10:09,330 --> 00:10:12,880 Scott Haslem: put a portfolio together, you need to have a globally 178 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:17,559 Scott Haslem: diversified investment portfolio across a whole range of different asset 179 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:23,010 Scott Haslem: classes from fixed income, both globally and domestically, share market, 180 00:10:23,010 --> 00:10:25,740 Scott Haslem: both globally and domestically, as well as what we would 181 00:10:25,740 --> 00:10:31,870 Scott Haslem: call alternative investments, being things like hedge funds, private equity, 182 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,370 Scott Haslem: which it would include late- stage venture capital and growth 183 00:10:34,830 --> 00:10:40,179 Scott Haslem: equity, and also real assets like property, tollroads, renewables. I mean, 184 00:10:40,179 --> 00:10:44,239 Scott Haslem: these are some fantastic assets that have inflation protection built- 185 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:50,050 Scott Haslem: in because they've got CPI and impacted revenue. So I think you have to have a diversified portfolio because we 186 00:10:50,050 --> 00:10:53,580 Scott Haslem: simply can't predict the outlook and arguably no one's ever 187 00:10:53,580 --> 00:10:56,189 Scott Haslem: been able to predict the outlook. So no single asset 188 00:10:56,290 --> 00:10:58,460 Scott Haslem: always outperforms. You need to have a mix of assets 189 00:10:58,460 --> 00:11:01,620 Scott Haslem: in your portfolio and you need to make sure that 190 00:11:01,620 --> 00:11:06,559 Scott Haslem: you're diversified. So you look at fixed income today. Scott 191 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:08,910 Scott Haslem: Morrison will take my money from me at 3.5%, capital 192 00:11:08,910 --> 00:11:14,929 Scott Haslem: guaranteed. A 10- year bond yield now is a competitive 193 00:11:15,270 --> 00:11:18,350 Scott Haslem: investment relative to the dividend yield in equity markets, and 194 00:11:18,590 --> 00:11:20,880 Scott Haslem: this is what investors are battling with at the moment. But 195 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,270 Scott Haslem: I think if you've got money to invest, you want 196 00:11:23,270 --> 00:11:25,580 Scott Haslem: to invest in a diversified way. You want to have 197 00:11:25,580 --> 00:11:28,920 Scott Haslem: a mix of assets. I think we should also recognize 198 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,920 Scott Haslem: that, whilst I wouldn't necessarily be putting all of my 199 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,950 Scott Haslem: money to work today, markets are 10 to 20% and some 200 00:11:35,950 --> 00:11:40,810 Scott Haslem: stocks are 30 to 40% below where they were two months ago. 201 00:11:40,950 --> 00:11:44,400 Scott Haslem: So it's not a disastrous investment environment, it's just a 202 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:45,021 Scott Haslem: volatile one. 203 00:11:45,021 --> 00:11:48,490 Sean Aylmer: As always, there are opportunities and just a reminder to the listener 204 00:11:48,490 --> 00:11:50,699 Sean Aylmer: that this isn't an investment advice show. You should always 205 00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:54,330 Sean Aylmer: speak to a professional advisor before making investment decisions. Scott, 206 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:56,350 Sean Aylmer: thank you very much for that little tour through the 207 00:11:56,350 --> 00:12:00,470 Sean Aylmer: economy. It's kind of scary, but it's fascinating to watch 208 00:12:00,470 --> 00:12:00,970 Sean Aylmer: as well. 209 00:12:02,030 --> 00:12:04,350 Scott Haslem: Yes, as I said at the beginning, Sean, it's been 210 00:12:04,350 --> 00:12:08,370 Scott Haslem: brutal, but it's certainly extremely interesting and we're living through 211 00:12:08,660 --> 00:12:11,679 Scott Haslem: one of the most interesting periods in human history. It's 212 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:13,110 Scott Haslem: been a pleasure to be with you. 213 00:12:13,220 --> 00:12:14,970 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. I have to laugh a little bit. You and I 214 00:12:15,090 --> 00:12:16,949 Sean Aylmer: have known each other for a long, long time, for 215 00:12:16,950 --> 00:12:20,160 Sean Aylmer: you to say something is brutal because you are a fairly 216 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:24,040 Sean Aylmer: measured character, brutal really means something coming out of your mouth. 217 00:12:26,260 --> 00:12:28,420 Scott Haslem: Well, it's how I feel, and as you said, markets are going 218 00:12:28,420 --> 00:12:33,260 Scott Haslem: up 3% and down 3% day-to- day. That's a fairly challenging 219 00:12:33,260 --> 00:12:33,720 Scott Haslem: investment environment. 220 00:12:34,850 --> 00:12:37,439 Sean Aylmer: Thanks for talking to Fear and Greed, Scott. That was Scott Haslem, chief 221 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,960 Sean Aylmer: investment officer at Crestone Wealth Management. This is the Fear 222 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,260 Sean Aylmer: and Greed daily interview. Join us every morning for the 223 00:12:43,260 --> 00:12:46,580 Sean Aylmer: full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular business 224 00:12:46,580 --> 00:12:49,050 Sean Aylmer: podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.