WEBVTT - Credlin | 7 September 0:00:08.300 --> 0:00:10.799 Good evening. Welcome to the program. Parliament back for a 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:14.560 fortnight is what's coming up tonight on Credlin. More questions 0:00:14.620 --> 0:00:17.279 tonight over the warnings that went unheeded in the months 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:21.250 before the Bondi terror attack. ASIO Chief Mike Burgess revealing 0:00:21.290 --> 0:00:25.849 his deep frustration that concerns were ignored just days after 0:00:25.970 --> 0:00:31.380 whistleblowers revealed here on Credlin serious internal pressures inside the AFP. 0:00:32.020 --> 0:00:35.580 PLAS Defence veterans back in Canberra today fighting against Labor's 0:00:35.740 --> 0:00:39.779 unfair attack on health services, laying down their service medals 0:00:40.140 --> 0:00:43.790 as they demand action from the Albanese government. And the 0:00:43.830 --> 0:00:46.709 fight to stop the flow of illegal tobacco into Australia. 0:00:47.130 --> 0:00:50.710 Tony Burke in the House today declaring law enforcement's key. 0:00:51.250 --> 0:00:54.660 But what of those warnings from Border Force veterans that 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:58.880 staff cuts have left officers defenceless in the fight? And 0:00:58.980 --> 0:01:01.660 One Nation doubling down on calls for reform to our 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.160 superannuation system. It's your money and it's set to become 0:01:05.220 --> 0:01:07.580 a key battleground at the next election. 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:12.220 Well, who holds most of the superannuation funds? The unions. 0:01:13.150 --> 0:01:16.800 The union is associated with the Labor Party. So I'm 0:01:16.830 --> 0:01:20.000 sure they don't want to see people access their money. 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.080 We will stay with that issue because today in Canberra 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.500 there was a newer policy announcement from One Nation which 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:32.539 kicked superannuation back into the headlines. And the way the 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:36.009 debate played out gives you the best insight yet into 0:01:36.030 --> 0:01:39.950 the ideological motivations of the left and the right when 0:01:39.990 --> 0:01:43.510 it comes to this $ 4. 5 trillion pool of of our 0:01:43.569 --> 0:01:48.250 national retirement savings. On the right, Coalition and One Nation 0:01:48.270 --> 0:01:52.930 believe it's superannuation's your money. It's salary that you forego 0:01:53.050 --> 0:01:56.870 now to be put aside for your retirement. Now, they 0:01:56.910 --> 0:02:00.550 may disagree about how much you can access before you 0:02:00.590 --> 0:02:04.870 retire and for what purpose, but there's no doubt that 0:02:04.890 --> 0:02:08.910 they are not conflicted as to its ownership. Your super, 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:12.750 your money. Labor, on the other hand, well, they speak 0:02:12.770 --> 0:02:16.030 with a forked tongue. They like to crow about their 0:02:16.110 --> 0:02:19.950 history as the party that introduced compulsory super. But for 0:02:19.990 --> 0:02:24.340 the left of politics, superannuation has always been about what 0:02:24.700 --> 0:02:28.520 they can do with your money rather than you. When 0:02:28.580 --> 0:02:33.460 Paul Keating created compulsory super back in 1992, his pitch 0:02:33.500 --> 0:02:36.950 to the public was all about boosting incomes in retirement, 0:02:37.510 --> 0:02:40.650 about getting people off the pension and But his real 0:02:40.710 --> 0:02:43.430 agenda was about finding a way to give Labor and 0:02:43.450 --> 0:02:48.340 the unions a new power base. You see, Keating recognized 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:52.220 that with union membership in free fall, the days when 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:55.460 union bosses could thump the table and grind the country 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.700 to a halt were declining. In the 1970s, over 50% 0:02:58.700 --> 0:03:00.320 of the workforce was in a union. Now it's just 7.9% 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:08.610 of workers in the private sector More, of course, if 0:03:08.630 --> 0:03:11.230 we add in the public servants in the public sector, 0:03:11.250 --> 0:03:14.750 but even so, that's a massive drop. But all credit 0:03:14.810 --> 0:03:18.940 to him, Keating saw this coming and he saw industry 0:03:19.020 --> 0:03:23.080 super as a way to maintain and grow the influence 0:03:23.340 --> 0:03:28.059 of unions. That's exactly what's happened. As more and more 0:03:28.100 --> 0:03:31.440 workers had super and the pool of funds in super grew, 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:36.340 as industry funds became the workplace default, they became more 0:03:36.540 --> 0:03:39.630 and more influential. When they had money to invest, they 0:03:39.650 --> 0:03:42.950 bought up blocks of shares in companies and then with 0:03:42.970 --> 0:03:48.180 that shareholding weight, started to direct company policy. It's why 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:50.600 so many of the big companies today are just as 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:54.120 likely to spend money promoting the voice than to push 0:03:54.140 --> 0:03:58.260 the Albanese government on their reckless spending or demand lifts 0:03:58.700 --> 0:04:02.680 in productivity. It was a cunning plan at the time, 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:07.150 but it's worked and it's transformed Labor's relationship with business 0:04:07.170 --> 0:04:10.240 and So much so that Labor's now the party of 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.220 big business and it's the coalition that's the party of 0:04:13.260 --> 0:04:17.810 the worker and small business. So enter One Nation today 0:04:17.850 --> 0:04:20.990 ready to get into the superannuation fight with a policy 0:04:21.010 --> 0:04:24.390 to allow people doing it tough to access more of 0:04:24.430 --> 0:04:27.550 their money now and not just when they retire. 0:04:28.150 --> 0:04:32.030 Those people that are working, are renters or paying a 0:04:32.050 --> 0:04:37.380 mortgage will, by choice, can apply to their superannuation fund. 0:04:38.150 --> 0:04:42.320 to withdraw up to 3%, one quarter of their superannuation, 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:43.600 moving forward. 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:47.120 This is the people's money. This is their money. This 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:49.320 is not the government's money. This is their money. 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:52.280 If it comes to a point of someone being out 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:55.479 in the streets and living in a tent or can't 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:59.120 or on the cusp of losing their home, I would 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:01.940 rather see them get that help and assistance that they 0:05:01.980 --> 0:05:04.250 need now, not later in life. 0:05:06.190 --> 0:05:09.339 Well, almost immediately, the Treasurer went on the attack. 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:13.320 Labor built super, we strengthened it, and now we will 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:17.060 have to defend it from those opposite. It is now 0:05:17.140 --> 0:05:21.089 beyond any doubt that any coalition with one nation in 0:05:21.150 --> 0:05:24.730 it will cut super. They will end super as we 0:05:24.790 --> 0:05:28.830 know it and make Australians poorer as a consequence because 0:05:29.230 --> 0:05:33.260 what they're proposing today means less money and less economic 0:05:33.300 --> 0:05:35.920 security for Australians in retirements. 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:40.860 At the heart of Chalmers Spray is Labor's view that 0:05:40.900 --> 0:05:45.300 your superannuation is not your money, temporarily managed by others 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:48.760 for your benefit, but a national asset to be deployed 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:51.839 by the government in the service of what it considers 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:54.930 to be the national interest. So invested in things that 0:05:55.089 --> 0:05:59.030 are important to Labor, their priorities, things like renewable energy 0:05:59.110 --> 0:06:03.630 or affordable housing for people on welfare. So someone else's home, 0:06:04.190 --> 0:06:07.230 just not your home. And that's a real worry because 0:06:07.710 --> 0:06:12.340 by far and away, the biggest insurance against poverty in 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.720 retirement is whether or not you own your own home. 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:20.339 Homeowners can live frugally on the pension. But if you're 0:06:20.420 --> 0:06:23.779 trying to pay rent or a mortgage on the pension, well, 0:06:23.820 --> 0:06:26.990 it's near impossible. And that's the point that One Nation 0:06:27.020 --> 0:06:27.990 was making today. 0:06:28.010 --> 0:06:30.430 And if you lose your house, it's the best asset 0:06:30.450 --> 0:06:30.930 you've got. 0:06:31.010 --> 0:06:31.190 I mean. 0:06:31.779 --> 0:06:33.980 Believe you me, sink or not, if you haven't got 0:06:34.020 --> 0:06:35.460 a house later on in life and you're still having 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:38.250 to pay rent, you're in a vastly more precarious position 0:06:38.290 --> 0:06:39.029 than a person. 0:06:38.790 --> 0:06:39.490 Who owns a house. 0:06:39.890 --> 0:06:41.510 And by the way, Laura, not. 0:06:41.430 --> 0:06:43.570 Only has 66,000 people. 0:06:43.730 --> 0:06:45.330 Got access to it, but they are on a tax 0:06:45.390 --> 0:06:47.190 rate between 17% and 22%. 0:06:47.190 --> 0:06:50.520 That's what Uncle Jim takes off them on the way out, 0:06:50.540 --> 0:06:52.480 and he's the one talking about a threat to super. 0:06:54.339 --> 0:06:56.760 The reality is, with people starting to buy homes later... 0:06:57.670 --> 0:07:01.190 With higher interest rates and house prices today and the 0:07:01.270 --> 0:07:04.880 impact of divorce hitting couples as well, home ownership can 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:08.599 be just as precarious for older Australians as it can 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:13.240 be for first home buyers. Hence Hanson's announcement today. But 0:07:13.260 --> 0:07:16.080 giving people access to more of their super would dilute 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:19.420 the power of industry funds. And because they pay money 0:07:19.460 --> 0:07:22.260 to the unions and the unions donate money to the 0:07:22.300 --> 0:07:26.160 Labor Party, what One Nation wants to do Well, that 0:07:26.340 --> 0:07:29.250 upsets the gravy train, doesn't it? In more ways than one. 0:07:29.900 --> 0:07:33.550 With their boards dominated by community activists and former union officials, 0:07:34.190 --> 0:07:38.070 the industry funds have long been pushing public companies that 0:07:38.110 --> 0:07:41.740 they invest in to walk away from things like coal 0:07:41.770 --> 0:07:45.780 and gas and to push the left's social agenda as 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:49.680 much as turn a profit. See now why Labor hates 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:53.620 this as much as they do. And back to super's 0:07:53.660 --> 0:07:57.179 original aim of getting people off the pension, well, even there, 0:07:57.220 --> 0:08:01.770 it hasn't been successful. After 34 years of compulsory super, 0:08:01.830 --> 0:08:06.450 so my entire working life, we've still got around upwards 0:08:06.490 --> 0:08:11.750 of 75 or 80% of retirees accessing some sort of 0:08:11.870 --> 0:08:17.680 pension or welfare support, at least two thirds of retirees. Now, 0:08:17.700 --> 0:08:20.160 I don't think One Nation's policy today has enough detail 0:08:20.220 --> 0:08:22.740 out there. I don't think there's any modelling, for example, 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:27.810 or specific information in it on the inflationary risk. But 0:08:27.850 --> 0:08:31.290 as a concept, this will hit home to precisely the 0:08:31.330 --> 0:08:35.050 sort of people they wanted to. People who have left 0:08:35.650 --> 0:08:39.510 or are thinking of leaving Labor. But more than that, 0:08:39.570 --> 0:08:43.310 as I've explained, it will terrify Labor insiders who build 0:08:43.350 --> 0:08:46.460 a huge machine of power and influence off the back 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.880 of workers' money via industry super that will be left 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:53.300 thinking that it all might just come unstuck. The more 0:08:53.340 --> 0:08:59.390 that Australians understand, they're just pawns here. That superannuation's never 0:08:59.450 --> 0:09:03.370 been about them at all. That's perhaps why we're already 0:09:03.450 --> 0:09:07.510 seeing ads like this pop up as a rearguard action 0:09:07.550 --> 0:09:11.620 from the industry funds who want to protect their cosy world. 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:15.080 Watch out for clickbait ads designed to pull you away 0:09:15.100 --> 0:09:15.939 from your super fund. 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:19.219 Thousands of Aussies have already lost large chunks of super 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:20.080 in collapse schemes. 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:21.939 You don't want to be next. 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.960 Well, watch this space. There'll be more of those coming fast. 0:09:35.170 --> 0:09:36.620 All right, let's go to Canberra. As I said, it's 0:09:36.670 --> 0:09:39.480 a Monday of a sitting fortnight, the first day at 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.680 the big house. Let's go there now. Political reporter Trudy 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:43.860 McIntosh with the headlines. 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:48.040 Federal Parliament's back with a bang. One Nation reignites a 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:49.540 fight over superannuation. 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.770 This is the people's money. This is their money. 0:09:52.890 --> 0:09:57.530 A full frontal attack on superannuation as a full frontal 0:09:57.630 --> 0:09:59.290 attack on Australian workers. 0:09:59.770 --> 0:10:02.650 One Nation is proposing to allow renters and mortgage holders 0:10:02.690 --> 0:10:06.050 to divert 25% of their super contributions into their pocket 0:10:06.270 --> 0:10:07.330 for up to three years. 0:10:07.730 --> 0:10:09.980 How is that not just going to pump up inflation, 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.030 keep rates high and hurt the people you're. 0:10:11.929 --> 0:10:12.390 Trying to help? 0:10:12.510 --> 0:10:13.080 It's neutral. 0:10:13.500 --> 0:10:16.080 It's neutral. So you're not going to pump up inflation 0:10:16.100 --> 0:10:16.780 with it at all. 0:10:17.410 --> 0:10:20.390 Labor is under pressure again to dump the controversial Allied 0:10:20.450 --> 0:10:24.300 Health Cap for veterans. Outside Parliament, veterans who served our 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:25.820 nation lay down their medals. 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:29.600 But the promises these medals represent cannot be honoured in 0:10:29.660 --> 0:10:32.680 ceremony and then abandoned in policy. 0:10:33.300 --> 0:10:38.700 Later, meeting with Minister Matt Keogh, calling for the $ 5, 000 0:10:36.780 --> 0:10:39.490 limit on veterans' Allied Health treatments to be dumped. 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.800 Leaving that meeting, I felt disappointed. To be honest, I 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:46.560 feel kind of betrayed. The battle has only just begun 0:10:46.820 --> 0:10:48.120 and Minister Keogh should know that. 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:51.120 And social media giants could soon be forced to allow 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:53.080 Australians to opt out of algorithms. 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.080 I definitely want Australians to have more choice over their 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:57.800 feeds than what they currently have. 0:10:57.940 --> 0:11:00.680 The full details of the so-called digital duty of care 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:02.120 reforms are yet to be revealed. 0:11:03.340 --> 0:11:06.760 This minister or the government or the prime minister control 0:11:07.179 --> 0:11:09.260 my algorithms or anyone's algorithms? 0:11:09.820 --> 0:11:11.260 Well, there's a lot of questions. 0:11:10.940 --> 0:11:11.580 To answer in that. 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.000 The Greens are pushing for a tougher opt-in approach. These 0:11:15.090 --> 0:11:19.650 toxic algorithms have been designed to be addictive. Trudy McIntosh, 0:11:19.809 --> 0:11:21.069 News 24, Canberra. 0:11:22.990 --> 0:11:25.309 Well, if I'm honest, it was a pretty flat start 0:11:25.370 --> 0:11:27.970 to the sitting fortnight today. A few important issues around, 0:11:27.990 --> 0:11:30.530 but nobody was landing much of a punch at all 0:11:30.570 --> 0:11:33.490 in question time. Here to discuss this and more, News24 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:37.929 political contributor Chris Ullman. As I said, a flat sort 0:11:37.970 --> 0:11:41.890 of news day, flat sort of parliament. This afternoon, Labor 0:11:41.929 --> 0:11:45.700 was trying to hold ground over those budget tax changes 0:11:45.750 --> 0:11:48.820 and the crisis that the Prime Minister and Jim Chalmers 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:53.079 have inflicted on housing. Claire O'Neill, the housing minister who 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:56.830 failed upwards after buggering things up with Home Affairs, well, 0:11:57.260 --> 0:12:02.130 she said the downturn is an opportunity for Australians. In 0:12:02.150 --> 0:12:05.220 the nine years those opposite were in power, house prices 0:12:05.270 --> 0:12:08.780 in Sydney almost doubled, Speaker, in nine years. We have 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:12.460 seen house prices grow by about 50% in the last 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:15.699 six years, Speaker. Now that's the context that's really important 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.459 here and I know that those opposite don't have anything 0:12:18.540 --> 0:12:22.240 sensible to say about this. I tell you what, Chris, 0:12:22.260 --> 0:12:24.120 if I was in the tactics committee for the coalition, 0:12:24.140 --> 0:12:26.660 I'd be getting her on her feet as often as 0:12:26.740 --> 0:12:30.610 possible in as many question times as possible because I 0:12:30.610 --> 0:12:33.349 think she's really struggling. I mean, this whole set of 0:12:33.390 --> 0:12:36.030 budget changes on housing are a lemon. I don't know 0:12:36.070 --> 0:12:37.270 how they keep selling a lemon. 0:12:39.530 --> 0:12:41.830 Well, Peter, there's two things going on here which makes 0:12:41.870 --> 0:12:45.179 it very confusing and All the way up to the budget, 0:12:45.220 --> 0:12:48.400 the government was talking about making houses more affordable, and 0:12:48.420 --> 0:12:50.490 that's what you assume it was trying to do with 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.370 the cuts to negative gearing. But it also wants to 0:12:53.390 --> 0:12:55.430 send the message that nobody's house is going to drop 0:12:55.650 --> 0:12:58.710 in value. Now, those two things cannot possibly be true 0:12:58.910 --> 0:13:00.699 at the same time. Then we had a mess of 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:04.160 other policies and interest rate rises, which, of course... is 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:06.360 making it difficult for anyone who wants to enter the 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:09.700 housing market at the moment. So, yeah, there's an absolute 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.760 confusion in the government's own messaging. It should really just 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:15.200 lean into the fact that we were trying to bring 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.420 down the price of houses and at least then the 0:13:18.470 --> 0:13:20.780 message would be clear. But then, of course, the problem 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:22.490 that they've got is with all those people who own 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.090 houses and the value of those houses is falling and 0:13:25.110 --> 0:13:27.569 the houses that people actually want to buy, well, they're 0:13:27.590 --> 0:13:29.530 not falling much in price anyway. 0:13:29.590 --> 0:13:32.900 So it's the worst of all possible worlds, really. And 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:35.520 the numbers don't work out, right? Ross Green was saying 0:13:35.540 --> 0:13:38.780 the other day, you've got about 12 million dwellings in 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:42.300 this country. All of those are own or part-owned, so 0:13:42.340 --> 0:13:44.370 no one wants to be paying off something that's losing 0:13:44.410 --> 0:13:49.809 value or own something that's losing value, vis-a-vis about 150,000 0:13:49.809 --> 0:13:51.849 people trying to get into the market. Well, look at 0:13:51.890 --> 0:13:55.110 those raw numbers. You really are pissing off a hell 0:13:55.130 --> 0:13:58.530 of a lot more Australians if their greatest assets starting 0:13:58.550 --> 0:14:01.179 to fall in value and the ones trying to get 0:14:01.300 --> 0:14:04.560 in at the same time that they're copying higher interest rates. 0:14:05.620 --> 0:14:07.500 We're told by all the banks at the mortgage book 0:14:08.140 --> 0:14:10.660 they're writing less loans, so they're not going out there 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:13.459 in the market. And you've got this stagnation on the 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:17.980 clearances over the weekend of auctions, about 54% in Victoria, 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:21.420 about 20% and 30% in places in New South Wales 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.920 and Queensland. I mean, the market is very, very sluggish. 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:28.530 Yeah, the other issue you've got is one of the 0:14:28.570 --> 0:14:31.410 other policies you had meant that people could borrow more. 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:35.830 borrow more on a house before they bought it, which 0:14:35.910 --> 0:14:37.850 means that those people are the ones who, if you 0:14:37.870 --> 0:14:41.490 were recently into the marketplace, then the price of your 0:14:41.530 --> 0:14:43.190 house is now worth less than. 0:14:43.130 --> 0:14:44.060 What you paid for it. 0:14:44.110 --> 0:14:47.150 So you've got negative equity, which makes people really concerned 0:14:47.170 --> 0:14:50.640 about everything else in their lives, which makes them worry 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.980 about spending more money in the real economy. So, yeah, 0:14:54.020 --> 0:14:55.880 what we've got here is a whole lot of policy 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.210 confusion from the Labor Party, which has landed us really 0:14:59.230 --> 0:15:01.830 in the worst possible place. and will have an effect 0:15:01.890 --> 0:15:02.870 on the entire economy. 0:15:04.690 --> 0:15:07.510 I'm worried about this digital duty of care. I mean, 0:15:07.530 --> 0:15:10.630 it's one thing to put in rules for those under 0:15:10.670 --> 0:15:13.230 the age of 16 and what they can access, although 0:15:13.250 --> 0:15:15.850 I might add there's been no big fines for all 0:15:15.890 --> 0:15:19.750 the talk levelled on big tech. But now we've got 0:15:19.770 --> 0:15:24.070 a conversation that the government wants to have an algorithm 0:15:24.450 --> 0:15:28.230 regime for adults about what we can see, what we 0:15:28.270 --> 0:15:32.050 can read, the access of information that we might have 0:15:32.090 --> 0:15:35.670 from here and overseas. So little detail, Chris, but what 0:15:35.730 --> 0:15:38.590 concerns me is when government gets in the way of 0:15:38.810 --> 0:15:42.620 information flows, there's always an ulterior motive. 0:15:44.620 --> 0:15:46.780 Yeah, Peter, and again, there's two things going on here, right? 0:15:47.060 --> 0:15:49.260 If I get the opportunity to opt in or opt 0:15:49.380 --> 0:15:52.220 out of algorithms, well, that's my device, my choice, and 0:15:52.300 --> 0:15:55.010 I can kind of get the idea on that. But 0:15:55.150 --> 0:15:57.780 there's more to this digital duty of care. And that 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:00.800 is that at some stage, the government wants to decide 0:16:00.980 --> 0:16:03.619 what big tech should be allowed to show us. And 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:08.960 then we get into the whole area of misinformation and 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:13.110 disinformation and a government deciding or the e-safety commissioner deciding 0:16:13.670 --> 0:16:17.030 what those things are, what constitutes harm. And that's where 0:16:17.090 --> 0:16:19.170 I have the real issue. So I think that out 0:16:19.230 --> 0:16:21.670 the front of this, like so many things, is something 0:16:21.710 --> 0:16:23.650 that might well sound good. Look, yeah, I could get 0:16:23.670 --> 0:16:26.910 to decide myself about algorithms. But no, what lies beneath 0:16:27.220 --> 0:16:29.860 all of this is the government deciding who gets to 0:16:29.900 --> 0:16:32.640 see what inside Australia. And that, as ever, is where 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:34.160 all the danger really lies. 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:37.900 And I'll use the example during the voice debate, Chris, 0:16:37.940 --> 0:16:41.380 when I got hold of an FOI about the full extent, 0:16:41.420 --> 0:16:43.750 you know, all 26 pages of the Uluru Statement to 0:16:43.770 --> 0:16:45.710 the Heart. And I put it out here on this 0:16:45.770 --> 0:16:48.230 program and I wrote about it. And I was Taken 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.050 off Facebook, it was removed from a whole lot of 0:16:51.110 --> 0:16:54.350 social media platforms. We all had to sort of sign 0:16:54.390 --> 0:16:56.350 up to the Prime Minister's view that it was just 0:16:56.390 --> 0:16:59.290 a gracious thing to do. It was a one-page poster. Well, 0:16:59.310 --> 0:17:03.870 it was not. We fought it. The lawyers here in 0:17:04.030 --> 0:17:06.350 News 24 fought it and we were able to speak 0:17:06.430 --> 0:17:08.710 our mind and put that information out there. As I said, 0:17:08.850 --> 0:17:13.490 information from the government via an FOI, but that's what 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:16.409 will come, guarantee you, that is what will come if 0:17:16.470 --> 0:17:17.850 this stuff becomes law. 0:17:19.730 --> 0:17:21.399 And Peter, do you have to have much of an 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:25.060 imagination to think that at some stage the crime against 0:17:25.140 --> 0:17:27.020 the climate is going to be to say that you 0:17:27.060 --> 0:17:31.080 don't like the government's energy policies, that that will be classified. 0:17:30.500 --> 0:17:33.140 As misinformation and disinformation? Spot on, Chris. 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:34.639 And we know that's where we're going. 0:17:36.220 --> 0:17:38.360 Well, that was the Climate Change Authority late last week. 0:17:38.900 --> 0:17:42.620 You know, they were critical about anyone talking about the 0:17:42.660 --> 0:17:47.310 impact of climate policy on electricity prices or reliability for 0:17:47.330 --> 0:17:49.810 the grid. They even made a reference that they don't 0:17:49.850 --> 0:17:53.090 like the debate about renewables in regional communities either. 0:17:54.890 --> 0:17:56.669 Yeah, no, this is absolutely where this is heading. So 0:17:56.690 --> 0:17:59.010 that's why it disturbs me. Can I say as an 0:17:59.190 --> 0:18:02.570 overall principle, I'm a libertarian, right? I think that we 0:18:02.590 --> 0:18:04.810 should have as much free information as possible in a 0:18:04.869 --> 0:18:07.580 society and we should debate all these things out. And 0:18:07.650 --> 0:18:09.980 can I say the thing that disturbs me most about 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.879 Australian politics is the only difference between left and right 0:18:13.140 --> 0:18:16.149 nowadays are the things that they want to ban. I 0:18:16.180 --> 0:18:18.690 don't think people should burn the Australian flag. Do I 0:18:18.730 --> 0:18:19.490 think it should be banned? 0:18:19.810 --> 0:18:20.050 No. 0:18:20.430 --> 0:18:22.290 I don't think that the federal government should be telling 0:18:22.330 --> 0:18:25.850 us what constitutes misinformation and disinformation because from what I 0:18:25.890 --> 0:18:28.640 can see and where I stand, most of the misinformation 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:30.840 I see comes out of the government and its authorities. 0:18:32.730 --> 0:18:34.080 You know, I'm a bit with you on the flag 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:37.700 and I look to see those groups that do ban it. 0:18:38.060 --> 0:18:40.840 And I think that tells me everything I need to 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.540 know about them. It helps me make my decision as 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.300 to why I mightn't support their cause or I might 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:50.010 think that they're dubious in their arguments. Just quickly, Super, 0:18:50.369 --> 0:18:52.389 you know, I'm a little bit younger than you, but 0:18:52.690 --> 0:18:54.950 we're in the same era. We both probably... Everyone's a 0:18:54.950 --> 0:18:59.240 little bit younger than me nowadays. Yeah, well, I said 0:18:59.260 --> 0:19:02.140 a little bit. It is a little bit. But we've 0:19:02.180 --> 0:19:04.720 basically had super for most of our working life. The 0:19:04.780 --> 0:19:07.449 whole pitch of Keating all those years ago was that 0:19:07.510 --> 0:19:09.930 you get to retirement age and there would be less 0:19:09.970 --> 0:19:12.530 of a call on the pension. Well, there's not much 0:19:12.609 --> 0:19:14.790 less call on the pensions. Two thirds of Australians do 0:19:14.830 --> 0:19:19.540 require the pension. You've got then this cash cow for 0:19:19.730 --> 0:19:22.460 the left. You know, the industry super funds are all powerful. 0:19:22.859 --> 0:19:25.520 They buy big whacks of companies. They basically tell companies 0:19:25.540 --> 0:19:28.340 what to do. There's a money go round that comes 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:31.119 out of industry super funds to the unions and across 0:19:31.540 --> 0:19:34.780 to the Labor Party as a donation. I think Hanson's, 0:19:35.380 --> 0:19:37.859 you know, found something with this topic. I think it's 0:19:37.900 --> 0:19:40.950 a good one to exploit. Not enough detail out there, 0:19:41.350 --> 0:19:43.490 but this will really disturb Labor. And you can see 0:19:43.530 --> 0:19:46.430 how quick they've come out today to sort of whip 0:19:46.490 --> 0:19:47.810 it up into some sort of fight. 0:19:49.570 --> 0:19:49.969 Well, the short story. 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:50.980 She's got it right, right? 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:53.440 It's our money. What happens is that we get 12% 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:55.419 of our wage garnish sheet and told that we're not 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:58.219 allowed to touch it until the age of 65. Now, 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:00.330 what's magic about the number 12%? Well, there was a 0:20:00.350 --> 0:20:03.410 debate over that for ages. So why not 9%? Why 0:20:03.430 --> 0:20:05.429 not be able to get some of it before you 0:20:05.450 --> 0:20:07.070 hit retirement, if what you're going to do is an 0:20:07.109 --> 0:20:09.830 investment in your house, well, that's a very good investment. 0:20:09.869 --> 0:20:12.590 We all know that. So she has got a powerful 0:20:12.810 --> 0:20:15.150 argument here. I think a lot of people will give 0:20:15.390 --> 0:20:18.710 a head nod and any idea that it's an attack 0:20:18.850 --> 0:20:21.730 on the superannuation system and it will destroy it is 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:24.240 a whole lot of puff and nonsense. But again, as 0:20:24.300 --> 0:20:29.439 I say, misinformation and disinformation seems to be the daily 0:20:29.580 --> 0:20:31.100 fare of this government. 0:20:32.820 --> 0:20:35.060 All right. I want you to Go abroad with me 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:40.350 for a moment. That significant decision electorally in Germany, a 0:20:41.070 --> 0:20:46.230 huge win here for the far-right party AFD, Alternative for Germany. Yes, 0:20:46.290 --> 0:20:49.580 it's at a state level. Yes, AFD looks like it 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:53.000 will fall short, although counting's continuing, to get the absolute 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:54.940 majority it needs to govern in its own right. But 0:20:55.060 --> 0:20:56.920 this is seismic, Chris. 0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:01.050 44% of the vote is a huge amount of the vote. 0:21:01.109 --> 0:21:03.790 And won't it be telling if it cannot form government 0:21:03.850 --> 0:21:06.229 because all of the other parties of government have decided 0:21:06.270 --> 0:21:08.889 that they will have a firewall, which is the policy 0:21:09.070 --> 0:21:12.869 in Germany, where they won't accept even the vote of 0:21:12.910 --> 0:21:16.910 the AFD on policies that they agree with. So that 0:21:17.020 --> 0:21:19.840 party is in the best position to form government, except 0:21:19.900 --> 0:21:23.280 it now needs probably 5% or 6% of what's left 0:21:23.820 --> 0:21:27.480 from some minor party to be able to make government work. 0:21:27.580 --> 0:21:31.290 So Yes, it is a seismic change in Germany, but 0:21:31.330 --> 0:21:33.810 look at all the things that are driving it. Migration, 0:21:34.290 --> 0:21:37.150 cost of living, look around the world and where we 0:21:37.230 --> 0:21:41.150