WEBVTT - Could Australia get a national truth telling commission?

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM.

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<v Speaker 1>For nearly two decades, Australian governments have pledged to close

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<v Speaker 1>the gap between Indigenous and non Indigenous Australians in health, education,

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<v Speaker 1>employment and justice. But year after year, the data tells

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<v Speaker 1>a grim story, modest improvements in some areas and deepening

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<v Speaker 1>crises in others. Behind the national figures, and in the

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<v Speaker 1>shadow of the failed referendum, the Northern Territory is falling

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<v Speaker 1>even further behind. Today, yorderman and co host of seven

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<v Speaker 1>Am Daniel James, on the ongoing frustrations of First Nations

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<v Speaker 1>leaders as they try to lead their communities to a

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<v Speaker 1>better future. It's Tuesday, August five. Daniel, Hello, how are

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<v Speaker 1>you good?

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<v Speaker 2>Ruby? Good to be on the show with you again.

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<v Speaker 1>So last week we saw the latest progress report into

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<v Speaker 1>the Closing the Gap targets. You went through you had

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<v Speaker 1>a look. Tell me what it said.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, out of the fifteen measurable targets, ten are showing improvement,

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<v Speaker 2>while several other key areas continue to worsen. There are

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<v Speaker 2>little signs of progress. So I guess the big one

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of the knock and effects is birth weights.

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<v Speaker 2>The goal is to have ninety one percent of babies

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<v Speaker 2>born between two point five kilos and four point five

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<v Speaker 2>kilos by twenty thirty one. This year, it was reported

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<v Speaker 2>that eighty nine point two percent of babies were actually

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<v Speaker 2>born within that healthy weight range. That means that things

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<v Speaker 2>like fetal alcohol syndrome disorder are down, and we know

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<v Speaker 2>that if a child is born out a healthy birth weight,

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<v Speaker 2>then they have the best chance possible to get themselves

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<v Speaker 2>a good education and to grow up healthy. And that target,

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<v Speaker 2>hopefully in generations to come, will be the one that

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<v Speaker 2>breaks the back a lot of the problems that we're

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<v Speaker 2>seeing at the moment. Other areas of improvement where early

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<v Speaker 2>childhood enrollment, employment is on track, and recognition of land

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<v Speaker 2>and sea rights is also on track.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Okay, so some indications than of things getting better,

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<v Speaker 1>particularly for newborns for children, But what about the areas of.

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<v Speaker 2>Concern Daniel, Yeah, the areas of concern are significant because

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<v Speaker 2>they're the ones that can trap people in the cycle

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<v Speaker 2>of disadvantage. So if we're looking at things like adult

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<v Speaker 2>incarceration rates that is going backwards, number of children out

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<v Speaker 2>of home care is growing devastatingly, Suicide rates is not

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<v Speaker 2>on track to be anywhere near the target required to

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<v Speaker 2>close the gap. Social and emotional wellbeing continues to be

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<v Speaker 2>a significant issue, and there are also significant regional differences.

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<v Speaker 2>New South Wales, Vitry, Coeensland, weigh In, Australia, Tasmanian Act.

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<v Speaker 2>Report improvement across most targets, but the part of the

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<v Speaker 2>country where pretty much everything is lagging at the moment

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<v Speaker 2>on multiple fronts is the Northern Territory.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, well, let's talk a little more about the incarceration rate,

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<v Speaker 1>because that is one of the most stubborn and the

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<v Speaker 1>most devastating indicators in the Closing the Gap reports. So

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<v Speaker 1>tell me what indigenous leaders are saying about what needs

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<v Speaker 1>to change for that to start to reverse.

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<v Speaker 2>It's probably the greatest area of frustration amongst Indigenous leaders

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<v Speaker 2>and Indigenous communities more broadly. Leaders Up and Gama called

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<v Speaker 2>for things like the thirty two recommendations from the recent

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<v Speaker 2>Cornial inquest and to come and dry Walker's death at

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<v Speaker 2>the hands of a police officer to be implemented in full.

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<v Speaker 2>What we see across the country is that coronial inquests

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<v Speaker 2>usually get it right when it comes to getting to

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<v Speaker 2>the heart of the issue. So people are calling for that. Particularly,

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<v Speaker 2>Uncle Ned Hargraves, who was at Gama, made some very

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<v Speaker 2>strident remarks about what needs to change up there. One

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<v Speaker 2>of the things that he called for was for police

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<v Speaker 2>to stop investigating themselves when it comes to a least

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<v Speaker 2>crimes that they may have committed.

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<v Speaker 1>We do not.

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<v Speaker 2>Trust not natory police. I we as the community don't

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<v Speaker 2>trust them anymore. We can't trust them. All they want

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<v Speaker 2>to do is destroyers and killer lanes. Incarceration is an

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<v Speaker 2>issue that affects every jurisdiction across the country, but yet

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<v Speaker 2>there is no overarching accountability framework to monitor incarceration rates

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<v Speaker 2>and destined custody. Uncle Ned also urged a change in

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<v Speaker 2>government attitude and approach towards Indigenous people, emphasizing the current

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<v Speaker 2>law and order agendas are targeting Aboriginal youth disproportionately and

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<v Speaker 2>causing unnecessary suffering. But there is a tremendous amount of

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<v Speaker 2>frustration when it comes to to incarceration rates because it's

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<v Speaker 2>a sign that so many of the systems, things like education,

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<v Speaker 2>early childhood development, out of home care, all these systems

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<v Speaker 2>have at one point or an other, ostensibly failed. If

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<v Speaker 2>a kid is finding itself in a watchhouse between the

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<v Speaker 2>ages of ten and seventeen and.

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<v Speaker 1>When it comes to accountability. There was one idea that

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<v Speaker 1>was raised by Senator Lydia Thorpe around cutting funding to

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<v Speaker 1>any jurisdiction who is failing to meet the targets that

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<v Speaker 1>were set. There needs to be consequences for not closing

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<v Speaker 1>the gap, otherwise, don't take the money. The Northern Territory

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<v Speaker 1>relies on federal funding heavily, so what do you make

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<v Speaker 1>of that idea?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think Senability of Thorpe was making sort of

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<v Speaker 2>laser guided comments about the Northern Territory in particular, which

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<v Speaker 2>has still got a relatively new Conservative government elected on

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<v Speaker 2>a tough on crime agenda. Because it is a territory,

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<v Speaker 2>the federal government has a range of powers over what

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<v Speaker 2>can happen there. The Federal Cabinet has veto power and

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<v Speaker 2>can advise the Governor General dra return any legislation passed

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<v Speaker 2>in the Northern Territories Legislative Assembly. They have massive funding

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<v Speaker 2>leverage Without the federal government, the Northern Territory government basically

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<v Speaker 2>is unable to fund itself through the taxes that it raises,

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<v Speaker 2>and so the federal government has it within their power

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<v Speaker 2>to change any aspect of that legislative agenda that is

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<v Speaker 2>making these things worse when it comes to close the.

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<v Speaker 1>Gap after the break Anthony Arbernesi's new path foward in

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<v Speaker 1>Indigenous Affairs.

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<v Speaker 2>Daniel.

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<v Speaker 1>On the weekend in the Northern Territory, in arnham Land,

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<v Speaker 1>we had Garma Festival. It's the biggest gun ring of

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<v Speaker 1>First Nations people across the country. The Prime Minister Anthony

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<v Speaker 1>Abernezi was there. Tell me what he had to say.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes. So this is the second time that the Prime

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<v Speaker 2>Minister has turned up to Gamo since the failed referendum.

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<v Speaker 3>I hope that the presence of such a large delegation

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<v Speaker 3>from my government is an indication that we have doubled

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<v Speaker 3>down on our determination to make a difference and find

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<v Speaker 3>a path forward.

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<v Speaker 2>He went there basically with an economic agenda. I think

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<v Speaker 2>it was something if it was in the Howard area,

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<v Speaker 2>you would call it practical reconciliation.

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<v Speaker 3>Working with average and entire straight island of people right

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<v Speaker 3>around our nation to boost skills and education, to create

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<v Speaker 3>jobs and back businesses, empowering traditional owners to advocate for infrastructure,

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<v Speaker 3>housing and energy projects on their land.

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<v Speaker 2>He announced the formation of the first Nation's Economic Empowerment Alliance,

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<v Speaker 2>which is something that aims to increase shared decision making

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<v Speaker 2>between the Commonwealth and First Nations people to help close

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<v Speaker 2>the wealth and social inequality gaps. As part of that,

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<v Speaker 2>unveiled thirty one million dollars for a mobile tape service.

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<v Speaker 3>UCH and trailers that will enable teachers to take skills

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<v Speaker 3>on the road and train the next generation of mechanics, carpenters,

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<v Speaker 3>plumbers and workers in the Aboriginal community controlled sector.

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<v Speaker 2>He also defended the government's record on Indigenous employment, housing, education,

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<v Speaker 2>access to clean water, and supply to essential goods, while

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<v Speaker 2>acknowledging that huge challenges remain. But perhaps most pointantly, towards

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<v Speaker 2>the end of his speech, he cautioned against culture wars

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<v Speaker 2>being a dry gully.

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<v Speaker 3>Culture wars are a dry gully. They offer us nothing

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<v Speaker 3>and they lead us nowhere. The way forward is to

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<v Speaker 3>invest in average On Torres Strait Islander, people trust in

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<v Speaker 3>their aspirations and draw from their knowledge.

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<v Speaker 1>So by saying culture wars asrae gully, I mean is

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<v Speaker 1>alban easy trying to point people away from those kinds

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<v Speaker 1>of debates. What do you think is getting at?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we have a propensity in this country when it

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<v Speaker 2>comes to talking about the problems that confront Aboriginal people

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<v Speaker 2>and Aboriginal affairs, to talk about everything else except the

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<v Speaker 2>issues that confront Aboriginal people and Aboriginal affairs. A classic

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<v Speaker 2>example is recent months, really since the referendum filed, there

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<v Speaker 2>have been constant attacks on Welcome the Country ceremonies, the

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<v Speaker 2>argument being why should I be welcome to my own

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<v Speaker 2>country because I live here, of course, forgetting the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that Aboriginal people have been here for sixty five thousand

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<v Speaker 2>years and Welcome the countries are actually an act of

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<v Speaker 2>generosity and reconciliation. There have been calls from the conservative

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<v Speaker 2>side of politics, particularly in the lead up to the

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<v Speaker 2>recent election, to ordit Aboriginal communities and organizations because they

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<v Speaker 2>think that the federal spend on these organizations is not

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<v Speaker 2>seeing the outcomes that we would like to see, therefore

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<v Speaker 2>placing all the responsibility for these outlies when it comes

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<v Speaker 2>to things like closing the gap on Aboriginal organizations and

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<v Speaker 2>on Aboriginal people. And of course there's been the ongoing

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<v Speaker 2>attempts to gain political capital from the referendum result itself.

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<v Speaker 2>We have had conservative governments walk away from treaty processes.

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<v Speaker 2>We've had oppositions now in places like Victoria that will

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<v Speaker 2>walk away from the treaty process if the Liberal National

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<v Speaker 2>Party is elected here.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. And since the failure of the Voice, there has

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<v Speaker 1>been this absence of clear direction in the governments approach

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<v Speaker 1>to indigenous affairs. But this speech at Garma, this was

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<v Speaker 1>a way for the Prime Minister to, I suppose, reset

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<v Speaker 1>state his new priorities. So what did you make of

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<v Speaker 1>what he said about the direction that labor government will

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<v Speaker 1>take now?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there was a time after the referendum where people

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<v Speaker 2>within the government didn't want to touch Aboriginal affairs with

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<v Speaker 2>a barge pole because they had barn so much political

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<v Speaker 2>capital early in their first term on the referendum. This year,

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<v Speaker 2>it really did sound like you said to Reybe, the

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<v Speaker 2>Prime Minister was trying to reset the agenda when it

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<v Speaker 2>comes to his government and Aboriginal affairs.

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<v Speaker 3>I know there are members of the eurok Justice Commission

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<v Speaker 3>here at Gama this weekend. Their commission has spent the

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<v Speaker 3>last four years recording the testimony of thousands of people

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<v Speaker 3>across Victoria, reflecting on the wrongs of the past, sharing

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<v Speaker 3>the pain their families and ancestors suffered as a result

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<v Speaker 3>of dispossession and discrimination policies and practices built on exclusion.

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<v Speaker 2>Reading between the lines, what he was kind of indicating,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was a commitment that they did have in

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<v Speaker 2>the lead up to taking government in the first place,

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<v Speaker 2>and that was a national truth telling body that would

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<v Speaker 2>be similar to or mirror what has already been done

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<v Speaker 2>in Victoria. And Minister for Indigenous Australians well and Dearie

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<v Speaker 2>McCarthy has indicated that she is open to a truth

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<v Speaker 2>telling body. So truth telling bodies enable Australians to understand

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<v Speaker 2>the full story of this place and by doing that

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<v Speaker 2>you get attitudinal change. It's a slow thing, but it's

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<v Speaker 2>important to him because a truth telling Commission is something

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<v Speaker 2>that could go a long way to healing a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of the ruptures in this country when it comes to

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<v Speaker 2>this treatment of First Nations.

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<v Speaker 1>People, and we've obviously seen that happen here in Victoria.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think we'll see a national truth telling Commission?

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<v Speaker 2>I was pessimistic after the europe Justice Commission finished. I

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<v Speaker 2>thought that that would be the only one that we

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<v Speaker 2>see in our lifetime. But on the back of Gharma

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<v Speaker 2>and there were several Albanezi government ministers up there. It's

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<v Speaker 2>definitely a message that's come a little strong from the

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<v Speaker 2>community that there needs to be a national truth telling inquiry.

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<v Speaker 2>It seems to me that the government is once again

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<v Speaker 2>open to the idea after ruling it out before the

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<v Speaker 2>last election. It's unfinished business. They're not going to go

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<v Speaker 2>towards or near a voice to Parliament again, that's clear.

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<v Speaker 2>Why would you if you were the government? But I'm

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<v Speaker 2>horseleusly more optimistic than I was six months ago.

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<v Speaker 1>And what else would make the biggest.

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<v Speaker 2>Difference to closing the gap. We need to see more

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<v Speaker 2>investment in communities instead of prisons. There's this thing called

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<v Speaker 2>justice reinvestment where you take money you would otherwise put

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<v Speaker 2>into prisons and into watchhouses and into detentions and facilities,

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<v Speaker 2>and you take that money and you put it directly

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<v Speaker 2>into communities and you let communities, through their own leadership,

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<v Speaker 2>work out a lot of the issues that are seeing

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<v Speaker 2>this overrepresentation within prisons. If we can do those things

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<v Speaker 2>as well as a truth telling commission nationally, you go

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<v Speaker 2>some way to changing the narrative. You change the narrative,

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<v Speaker 2>you change attitudes, You change attitudes. He can change outcomes.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, Daniel, thank you for talking with me.

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<v Speaker 2>Always a pleasure. Ruby.

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<v Speaker 1>Also in the news today, the New South Wales Premiere

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<v Speaker 1>says it's not open season on the bridge after protesters

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<v Speaker 1>won the right to march across the Sydney Harbor Bridge

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<v Speaker 1>over the weekend. Chris Mins had stated his opposition to

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<v Speaker 1>the major pro Palestine rally taking place on the bridge,

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<v Speaker 1>but a Supreme Court judge ruled in favor of the protesters,

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<v Speaker 1>saying their case was compelling. The Premiere is now scrutinizing

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<v Speaker 1>the decision out of concern it could set a legal

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<v Speaker 1>precedent for the use of the bridge as a setting

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<v Speaker 1>for protest and the New South Wales Young Liberals want

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<v Speaker 1>the coalition to stop pursuing Trump style culture wars and

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<v Speaker 1>distance themselves from Sky News. According to a submission to

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<v Speaker 1>the party's election review, the group said they felt the

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<v Speaker 1>fringe right of the Liberal membership had been given too

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<v Speaker 1>much power over policy and had turned off women and

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<v Speaker 1>voters from diverse backgrounds. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven

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<v Speaker 1>a m. Thanks Blestling