Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM.
Speaker 1: For nearly two decades, Australian governments have pledged to close
Speaker 1: the gap between Indigenous and non Indigenous Australians in health, education,
Speaker 1: employment and justice. But year after year, the data tells
Speaker 1: a grim story, modest improvements in some areas and deepening
Speaker 1: crises in others. Behind the national figures, and in the
Speaker 1: shadow of the failed referendum, the Northern Territory is falling
Speaker 1: even further behind. Today, yorderman and co host of seven
Speaker 1: Am Daniel James, on the ongoing frustrations of First Nations
Speaker 1: leaders as they try to lead their communities to a
Speaker 1: better future. It's Tuesday, August five. Daniel, Hello, how are
Speaker 1: you good?
Speaker 2: Ruby? Good to be on the show with you again.
Speaker 1: So last week we saw the latest progress report into
Speaker 1: the Closing the Gap targets. You went through you had
Speaker 1: a look. Tell me what it said.
Speaker 2: Well, out of the fifteen measurable targets, ten are showing improvement,
Speaker 2: while several other key areas continue to worsen. There are
Speaker 2: little signs of progress. So I guess the big one
Speaker 2: in terms of the knock and effects is birth weights.
Speaker 2: The goal is to have ninety one percent of babies
Speaker 2: born between two point five kilos and four point five
Speaker 2: kilos by twenty thirty one. This year, it was reported
Speaker 2: that eighty nine point two percent of babies were actually
Speaker 2: born within that healthy weight range. That means that things
Speaker 2: like fetal alcohol syndrome disorder are down, and we know
Speaker 2: that if a child is born out a healthy birth weight,
Speaker 2: then they have the best chance possible to get themselves
Speaker 2: a good education and to grow up healthy. And that target,
Speaker 2: hopefully in generations to come, will be the one that
Speaker 2: breaks the back a lot of the problems that we're
Speaker 2: seeing at the moment. Other areas of improvement where early
Speaker 2: childhood enrollment, employment is on track, and recognition of land
Speaker 2: and sea rights is also on track.
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, so some indications than of things getting better,
Speaker 1: particularly for newborns for children, But what about the areas of.
Speaker 2: Concern Daniel, Yeah, the areas of concern are significant because
Speaker 2: they're the ones that can trap people in the cycle
Speaker 2: of disadvantage. So if we're looking at things like adult
Speaker 2: incarceration rates that is going backwards, number of children out
Speaker 2: of home care is growing devastatingly, Suicide rates is not
Speaker 2: on track to be anywhere near the target required to
Speaker 2: close the gap. Social and emotional wellbeing continues to be
Speaker 2: a significant issue, and there are also significant regional differences.
Speaker 2: New South Wales, Vitry, Coeensland, weigh In, Australia, Tasmanian Act.
Speaker 2: Report improvement across most targets, but the part of the
Speaker 2: country where pretty much everything is lagging at the moment
Speaker 2: on multiple fronts is the Northern Territory.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, let's talk a little more about the incarceration rate,
Speaker 1: because that is one of the most stubborn and the
Speaker 1: most devastating indicators in the Closing the Gap reports. So
Speaker 1: tell me what indigenous leaders are saying about what needs
Speaker 1: to change for that to start to reverse.
Speaker 2: It's probably the greatest area of frustration amongst Indigenous leaders
Speaker 2: and Indigenous communities more broadly. Leaders Up and Gama called
Speaker 2: for things like the thirty two recommendations from the recent
Speaker 2: Cornial inquest and to come and dry Walker's death at
Speaker 2: the hands of a police officer to be implemented in full.
Speaker 2: What we see across the country is that coronial inquests
Speaker 2: usually get it right when it comes to getting to
Speaker 2: the heart of the issue. So people are calling for that. Particularly,
Speaker 2: Uncle Ned Hargraves, who was at Gama, made some very
Speaker 2: strident remarks about what needs to change up there. One
Speaker 2: of the things that he called for was for police
Speaker 2: to stop investigating themselves when it comes to a least
Speaker 2: crimes that they may have committed.
Speaker 1: We do not.
Speaker 2: Trust not natory police. I we as the community don't
Speaker 2: trust them anymore. We can't trust them. All they want
Speaker 2: to do is destroyers and killer lanes. Incarceration is an
Speaker 2: issue that affects every jurisdiction across the country, but yet
Speaker 2: there is no overarching accountability framework to monitor incarceration rates
Speaker 2: and destined custody. Uncle Ned also urged a change in
Speaker 2: government attitude and approach towards Indigenous people, emphasizing the current
Speaker 2: law and order agendas are targeting Aboriginal youth disproportionately and
Speaker 2: causing unnecessary suffering. But there is a tremendous amount of
Speaker 2: frustration when it comes to to incarceration rates because it's
Speaker 2: a sign that so many of the systems, things like education,
Speaker 2: early childhood development, out of home care, all these systems
Speaker 2: have at one point or an other, ostensibly failed. If
Speaker 2: a kid is finding itself in a watchhouse between the
Speaker 2: ages of ten and seventeen and.
Speaker 1: When it comes to accountability. There was one idea that
Speaker 1: was raised by Senator Lydia Thorpe around cutting funding to
Speaker 1: any jurisdiction who is failing to meet the targets that
Speaker 1: were set. There needs to be consequences for not closing
Speaker 1: the gap, otherwise, don't take the money. The Northern Territory
Speaker 1: relies on federal funding heavily, so what do you make
Speaker 1: of that idea?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Senability of Thorpe was making sort of
Speaker 2: laser guided comments about the Northern Territory in particular, which
Speaker 2: has still got a relatively new Conservative government elected on
Speaker 2: a tough on crime agenda. Because it is a territory,
Speaker 2: the federal government has a range of powers over what
Speaker 2: can happen there. The Federal Cabinet has veto power and
Speaker 2: can advise the Governor General dra return any legislation passed
Speaker 2: in the Northern Territories Legislative Assembly. They have massive funding
Speaker 2: leverage Without the federal government, the Northern Territory government basically
Speaker 2: is unable to fund itself through the taxes that it raises,
Speaker 2: and so the federal government has it within their power
Speaker 2: to change any aspect of that legislative agenda that is
Speaker 2: making these things worse when it comes to close the.
Speaker 1: Gap after the break Anthony Arbernesi's new path foward in
Speaker 1: Indigenous Affairs.
Speaker 2: Daniel.
Speaker 1: On the weekend in the Northern Territory, in arnham Land,
Speaker 1: we had Garma Festival. It's the biggest gun ring of
Speaker 1: First Nations people across the country. The Prime Minister Anthony
Speaker 1: Abernezi was there. Tell me what he had to say.
Speaker 2: Yes. So this is the second time that the Prime
Speaker 2: Minister has turned up to Gamo since the failed referendum.
Speaker 3: I hope that the presence of such a large delegation
Speaker 3: from my government is an indication that we have doubled
Speaker 3: down on our determination to make a difference and find
Speaker 3: a path forward.
Speaker 2: He went there basically with an economic agenda. I think
Speaker 2: it was something if it was in the Howard area,
Speaker 2: you would call it practical reconciliation.
Speaker 3: Working with average and entire straight island of people right
Speaker 3: around our nation to boost skills and education, to create
Speaker 3: jobs and back businesses, empowering traditional owners to advocate for infrastructure,
Speaker 3: housing and energy projects on their land.
Speaker 2: He announced the formation of the first Nation's Economic Empowerment Alliance,
Speaker 2: which is something that aims to increase shared decision making
Speaker 2: between the Commonwealth and First Nations people to help close
Speaker 2: the wealth and social inequality gaps. As part of that,
Speaker 2: unveiled thirty one million dollars for a mobile tape service.
Speaker 3: UCH and trailers that will enable teachers to take skills
Speaker 3: on the road and train the next generation of mechanics, carpenters,
Speaker 3: plumbers and workers in the Aboriginal community controlled sector.
Speaker 2: He also defended the government's record on Indigenous employment, housing, education,
Speaker 2: access to clean water, and supply to essential goods, while
Speaker 2: acknowledging that huge challenges remain. But perhaps most pointantly, towards
Speaker 2: the end of his speech, he cautioned against culture wars
Speaker 2: being a dry gully.
Speaker 3: Culture wars are a dry gully. They offer us nothing
Speaker 3: and they lead us nowhere. The way forward is to
Speaker 3: invest in average On Torres Strait Islander, people trust in
Speaker 3: their aspirations and draw from their knowledge.
Speaker 1: So by saying culture wars asrae gully, I mean is
Speaker 1: alban easy trying to point people away from those kinds
Speaker 1: of debates. What do you think is getting at?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a propensity in this country when it
Speaker 2: comes to talking about the problems that confront Aboriginal people
Speaker 2: and Aboriginal affairs, to talk about everything else except the
Speaker 2: issues that confront Aboriginal people and Aboriginal affairs. A classic
Speaker 2: example is recent months, really since the referendum filed, there
Speaker 2: have been constant attacks on Welcome the Country ceremonies, the
Speaker 2: argument being why should I be welcome to my own
Speaker 2: country because I live here, of course, forgetting the fact
Speaker 2: that Aboriginal people have been here for sixty five thousand
Speaker 2: years and Welcome the countries are actually an act of
Speaker 2: generosity and reconciliation. There have been calls from the conservative
Speaker 2: side of politics, particularly in the lead up to the
Speaker 2: recent election, to ordit Aboriginal communities and organizations because they
Speaker 2: think that the federal spend on these organizations is not
Speaker 2: seeing the outcomes that we would like to see, therefore
Speaker 2: placing all the responsibility for these outlies when it comes
Speaker 2: to things like closing the gap on Aboriginal organizations and
Speaker 2: on Aboriginal people. And of course there's been the ongoing
Speaker 2: attempts to gain political capital from the referendum result itself.
Speaker 2: We have had conservative governments walk away from treaty processes.
Speaker 2: We've had oppositions now in places like Victoria that will
Speaker 2: walk away from the treaty process if the Liberal National
Speaker 2: Party is elected here.
Speaker 1: Okay. And since the failure of the Voice, there has
Speaker 1: been this absence of clear direction in the governments approach
Speaker 1: to indigenous affairs. But this speech at Garma, this was
Speaker 1: a way for the Prime Minister to, I suppose, reset
Speaker 1: state his new priorities. So what did you make of
Speaker 1: what he said about the direction that labor government will
Speaker 1: take now?
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a time after the referendum where people
Speaker 2: within the government didn't want to touch Aboriginal affairs with
Speaker 2: a barge pole because they had barn so much political
Speaker 2: capital early in their first term on the referendum. This year,
Speaker 2: it really did sound like you said to Reybe, the
Speaker 2: Prime Minister was trying to reset the agenda when it
Speaker 2: comes to his government and Aboriginal affairs.
Speaker 3: I know there are members of the eurok Justice Commission
Speaker 3: here at Gama this weekend. Their commission has spent the
Speaker 3: last four years recording the testimony of thousands of people
Speaker 3: across Victoria, reflecting on the wrongs of the past, sharing
Speaker 3: the pain their families and ancestors suffered as a result
Speaker 3: of dispossession and discrimination policies and practices built on exclusion.
Speaker 2: Reading between the lines, what he was kind of indicating,
Speaker 2: and it was a commitment that they did have in
Speaker 2: the lead up to taking government in the first place,
Speaker 2: and that was a national truth telling body that would
Speaker 2: be similar to or mirror what has already been done
Speaker 2: in Victoria. And Minister for Indigenous Australians well and Dearie
Speaker 2: McCarthy has indicated that she is open to a truth
Speaker 2: telling body. So truth telling bodies enable Australians to understand
Speaker 2: the full story of this place and by doing that
Speaker 2: you get attitudinal change. It's a slow thing, but it's
Speaker 2: important to him because a truth telling Commission is something
Speaker 2: that could go a long way to healing a lot
Speaker 2: of the ruptures in this country when it comes to
Speaker 2: this treatment of First Nations.
Speaker 1: People, and we've obviously seen that happen here in Victoria.
Speaker 1: Do you think we'll see a national truth telling Commission?
Speaker 2: I was pessimistic after the europe Justice Commission finished. I
Speaker 2: thought that that would be the only one that we
Speaker 2: see in our lifetime. But on the back of Gharma
Speaker 2: and there were several Albanezi government ministers up there. It's
Speaker 2: definitely a message that's come a little strong from the
Speaker 2: community that there needs to be a national truth telling inquiry.
Speaker 2: It seems to me that the government is once again
Speaker 2: open to the idea after ruling it out before the
Speaker 2: last election. It's unfinished business. They're not going to go
Speaker 2: towards or near a voice to Parliament again, that's clear.
Speaker 2: Why would you if you were the government? But I'm
Speaker 2: horseleusly more optimistic than I was six months ago.
Speaker 1: And what else would make the biggest.
Speaker 2: Difference to closing the gap. We need to see more
Speaker 2: investment in communities instead of prisons. There's this thing called
Speaker 2: justice reinvestment where you take money you would otherwise put
Speaker 2: into prisons and into watchhouses and into detentions and facilities,
Speaker 2: and you take that money and you put it directly
Speaker 2: into communities and you let communities, through their own leadership,
Speaker 2: work out a lot of the issues that are seeing
Speaker 2: this overrepresentation within prisons. If we can do those things
Speaker 2: as well as a truth telling commission nationally, you go
Speaker 2: some way to changing the narrative. You change the narrative,
Speaker 2: you change attitudes, You change attitudes. He can change outcomes.
Speaker 1: Well, Daniel, thank you for talking with me.
Speaker 2: Always a pleasure. Ruby.
Speaker 1: Also in the news today, the New South Wales Premiere
Speaker 1: says it's not open season on the bridge after protesters
Speaker 1: won the right to march across the Sydney Harbor Bridge
Speaker 1: over the weekend. Chris Mins had stated his opposition to
Speaker 1: the major pro Palestine rally taking place on the bridge,
Speaker 1: but a Supreme Court judge ruled in favor of the protesters,
Speaker 1: saying their case was compelling. The Premiere is now scrutinizing
Speaker 1: the decision out of concern it could set a legal
Speaker 1: precedent for the use of the bridge as a setting
Speaker 1: for protest and the New South Wales Young Liberals want
Speaker 1: the coalition to stop pursuing Trump style culture wars and
Speaker 1: distance themselves from Sky News. According to a submission to
Speaker 1: the party's election review, the group said they felt the
Speaker 1: fringe right of the Liberal membership had been given too
Speaker 1: much power over policy and had turned off women and
Speaker 1: voters from diverse backgrounds. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven
Speaker 1: a m. Thanks Blestling