WEBVTT - A Possible Breakthrough? 0:00:05.921 --> 0:00:07.281 Approche production. 0:00:10.201 --> 0:00:12.321 Across the last year and a half, we've tried in 0:00:12.361 --> 0:00:16.161 this podcast to uncover and understand which parts of all 0:00:16.201 --> 0:00:20.161 the information we've gathered irrelevant to Eden's case. Of course, 0:00:20.361 --> 0:00:23.000 there's been a lot of information put forward. Some of 0:00:23.041 --> 0:00:26.160 it relates directly to Eden's death, some of it relates 0:00:26.201 --> 0:00:29.441 to suspicions around what might have happened, and some of 0:00:29.481 --> 0:00:31.801 it delves into the themes that have come up in 0:00:31.841 --> 0:00:36.561 the investigation. This episode is about that final point we've 0:00:36.601 --> 0:00:39.960 heard in the Eden Westbrook case that numerous experts and 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:44.401 witnesses have said that there are problems and inconsistencies on 0:00:44.441 --> 0:00:47.920 how police handled the case from the artset. There are 0:00:48.001 --> 0:00:51.241 questions about why some key witnesses took more than nine 0:00:51.321 --> 0:00:54.361 years to be interviewed, and even then it wasn't a 0:00:54.401 --> 0:00:58.201 formal interview, it was a conversation that really went nowhere. 0:00:58.681 --> 0:01:01.200 And at the heart of this there's a family who 0:01:01.281 --> 0:01:04.641 nearly ten years ago lost a daughter, a sister, and 0:01:04.681 --> 0:01:11.080 a friend just one answers. Earlier this month, one of 0:01:11.121 --> 0:01:15.401 Tasmania's coroners released an inquest into the findings of a 0:01:15.481 --> 0:01:19.241 lady called Helen Bird. Helen was forty three and lived 0:01:19.241 --> 0:01:20.640 in the south of Hobart. 0:01:21.121 --> 0:01:24.161 In twenty ten, Helen Bird was found dead in her 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:29.000 shed in Hobart. A police investigation ruled it a suicide. 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:33.280 Thirteen years later, the case was re examined by a coroner. 0:01:33.881 --> 0:01:37.001 He's now found her husband was responsible. 0:01:37.681 --> 0:01:39.961 You might right now think that what's this got to 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:42.920 do with the in Westbrook case. Well, that team have 0:01:42.961 --> 0:01:46.440 poured over the coronial findings of both cases and want 0:01:46.441 --> 0:01:50.641 to address some of the striking similarities. The first is 0:01:50.681 --> 0:01:53.401 that Helen didn't seem to have any reasons to want 0:01:53.441 --> 0:01:56.001 to take her own life, much like Eden. At the 0:01:56.041 --> 0:01:58.761 time of their deaths, they were planning for the future. 0:01:59.161 --> 0:02:02.321 Eden had a camping trip planned with Jason, and. 0:02:02.241 --> 0:02:05.761 Then she said, look, I'm gonnam, I got to get 0:02:05.761 --> 0:02:09.361 some stuff for camp. We're going camping this weekend. I'm 0:02:09.361 --> 0:02:12.401 going to get dad to take us to town and 0:02:12.441 --> 0:02:17.561 get some supplies. I said, no worries, I love you, 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:21.281 and off she went and got Hunter and Jason and 0:02:22.921 --> 0:02:25.801 they headed down to Saint Helen's which is only a 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:27.081 couple of kilometers away. 0:02:27.721 --> 0:02:29.841 Jason, I'm just going to ask you, do you remember 0:02:29.881 --> 0:02:32.840 that drive to go and get supplies for Thanks? Talk 0:02:32.881 --> 0:02:33.601 to me about the drive. 0:02:34.081 --> 0:02:37.560 We just girls needed stuff camp and that weekend Dad 0:02:37.601 --> 0:02:39.201 take me down the store and need this need that 0:02:39.601 --> 0:02:41.641 jumped in the car went down. I stayed in the car. 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:43.521 I don't get out. They go and do their stuff, 0:02:43.601 --> 0:02:46.361 they come back. It was all just simple as that. 0:02:46.761 --> 0:02:50.041 The coroner of both cases was the same coroner. Each 0:02:50.161 --> 0:02:54.161 case was deemed a suicide without an inquest. On the 0:02:54.201 --> 0:02:57.961 thirty first of March twenty eleven. The original coroner found 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:01.921 that Helen died of asphyxia and that no other person 0:03:02.001 --> 0:03:06.441 contributed to her death. In particular, she named Helen's husband, 0:03:06.841 --> 0:03:08.240 who the coroner found. 0:03:08.361 --> 0:03:10.401 Had no involvement in her death. 0:03:10.601 --> 0:03:14.801 He's an extract from Eden's findings without inquest from the 0:03:14.841 --> 0:03:18.561 same coroner. These are their words, but not their voice. 0:03:18.841 --> 0:03:23.120 I am satisfied that there are no suspicious circumstances surrounding 0:03:23.281 --> 0:03:27.441 Eden's death or that any other person was involved. I 0:03:27.481 --> 0:03:30.841 am further satisfied that Eden acted with the express intention 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:32.120 of ending her life. 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:35.321 Back to the Helen Bird case, the couple were married 0:03:35.361 --> 0:03:38.601 for more than two decades and had three children together. 0:03:39.081 --> 0:03:41.881 She was a palliative care nurse and the bread winner. 0:03:42.361 --> 0:03:46.801 In twenty seventeen, six years after Helen was found, a 0:03:46.801 --> 0:03:50.001 female detective got concerned. It was due to new information. 0:03:50.961 --> 0:03:53.921 There was a fire that destroyed a house where Helen's 0:03:53.961 --> 0:03:57.961 husband was living. Suspicions were raised when detectives discovered that 0:03:58.041 --> 0:04:02.521 Mark Bird had fraudulently lodged two previous insurance claims worth 0:04:02.601 --> 0:04:06.961 hundreds of thousands of dollars concerning his two previous homes. 0:04:07.361 --> 0:04:09.081 He was sent to jail for four years. 0:04:09.561 --> 0:04:13.801 The court heard he suffered from PTSD, struggled with alcohol 0:04:13.841 --> 0:04:16.641 and drug abuse, and was convicted for setting fire to 0:04:16.721 --> 0:04:19.841 property and then making false insurance claims. 0:04:20.281 --> 0:04:24.640 Then the real work began. A detective started to investigate further. 0:04:25.161 --> 0:04:28.361 She spoke to witnesses that said Helen wouldn't have wanted 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:32.280 to leave her kids. The female detective found out mister 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:35.400 Byrd was having an affair the time of his wife's death, 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:39.361 which he hadn't disclosed to police. The detective then prepared 0:04:39.401 --> 0:04:42.801 a detailed report in November twenty twenty one, and the 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:48.001 Chief magistrate later reopened the investigation based on new evidence. 0:04:48.761 --> 0:04:52.200 An inquest was held into Helen's death in late twenty 0:04:52.241 --> 0:04:56.200 twenty three and finalized in twenty twenty four, but let's 0:04:56.281 --> 0:05:00.160 quickly skip back to twenty ten when Helen passed away. 0:05:00.481 --> 0:05:03.440 Helen's husband was the one that found her body. He 0:05:03.481 --> 0:05:06.280 allegedly cut her down with a Stanley knife. When police 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:10.400 found Helen's body, the constable from the forensic services didn't 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:14.520 take measurements the scene. They didn't fingerprint the DNA or 0:05:14.561 --> 0:05:18.921 the knife, the rope, or an alleged suicide note. In 0:05:18.961 --> 0:05:23.080 a surprising coincidence, the same constable who failed to undertake 0:05:23.161 --> 0:05:26.681 basic examinations and measurements in Helen's case was the same 0:05:26.721 --> 0:05:30.681 one who attended Eden's crime scene. Helen's actual investigation on 0:05:30.761 --> 0:05:33.521 the day was left to a constable without it seems 0:05:33.561 --> 0:05:38.080 too much direction from more senior officers who attended the scene. 0:05:38.121 --> 0:05:42.441 A constable was also responsible for doing the investigation into 0:05:42.641 --> 0:05:46.001 Eden's death on behalf of the coroner. With a new 0:05:46.041 --> 0:05:49.561 investigation going on around Helen's death, the police detective went 0:05:49.601 --> 0:05:51.880 back to the rope to test how it would frey 0:05:52.281 --> 0:05:58.440 in different circumstances. The testing raised doubts and questioned her 0:05:58.521 --> 0:06:01.881 husband's version of events on the day of Helen's death. 0:06:02.361 --> 0:06:07.160 Further testing concerning a slipknot also raised an issue about 0:06:07.201 --> 0:06:11.280 the husband's version. Like the CCTV footage in Eden's case, 0:06:11.401 --> 0:06:14.521 the rope in Helen's case had not been kept. This 0:06:14.641 --> 0:06:17.921 meant the well meeting police needed to improvise based on 0:06:18.081 --> 0:06:22.721 forensic photos from the crime scene. This new coronial inquest 0:06:22.761 --> 0:06:27.241 the ones'd just taken place, was handed down fourteen years 0:06:27.281 --> 0:06:30.601 since Helen's death. The new coroner found that she was 0:06:30.721 --> 0:06:33.321 murdered and that her husband was involved. 0:06:33.641 --> 0:06:37.520 The coroner, Robert Webster, has found mister Bird likely forced 0:06:37.561 --> 0:06:42.241 his wife to breathe in toxic fumes, rendering her unconscious. 0:06:42.681 --> 0:06:45.801 The coroner found mister Bird then tied his wife up 0:06:45.841 --> 0:06:49.200 with a rope, and she died from asphyxiation. He'd also 0:06:49.361 --> 0:06:53.001 been having affairs. On the eighth of July twenty ten, 0:06:53.241 --> 0:06:57.641 mister Bird called police claiming he'd found his wife unconscious 0:06:57.761 --> 0:07:01.521 in the shed at Blackman's Bay. Police say the investigation 0:07:01.921 --> 0:07:06.241 is ongoing and they're urging anyone with information to come forward. 0:07:08.681 --> 0:07:12.841 The coroner believed that Helen was incapacitated shortly before her death. 0:07:13.041 --> 0:07:16.401 The coroner believes that the wrote was placed around her neck. 0:07:16.521 --> 0:07:19.001 Mister Bird then made the scene look like a suicide. 0:07:19.681 --> 0:07:22.001 He placed a phone at a photo of their kids 0:07:22.041 --> 0:07:25.481 and a letter on the workbench of the garage. Sadly, 0:07:25.521 --> 0:07:28.561 it seems that the letter was regarded as a suicide 0:07:28.601 --> 0:07:32.481 note by police when it wasn't really. It was a 0:07:32.561 --> 0:07:37.521 letter say how unhappy she was in her marriage. This 0:07:37.601 --> 0:07:42.361 new female detective who investigated further checked phone records, calls, 0:07:42.401 --> 0:07:46.561 and text messages of the victim. The coroner said a 0:07:46.601 --> 0:07:49.561 series of miscalls and text from mister Bird to his 0:07:49.641 --> 0:07:50.841 wife that morning. 0:07:50.761 --> 0:07:54.001 Were contrived by mister Bird in order to provide himself 0:07:54.001 --> 0:07:54.801 with an alibi. 0:07:55.481 --> 0:07:57.561 The context of these texts in the lead up to 0:07:57.641 --> 0:08:03.681 the death were also inconsistent with the previous communications. Helen's husband, 0:08:03.721 --> 0:08:07.161 mister Bird had given false versions of events to police 0:08:07.401 --> 0:08:10.681 and to friends and family, the coroner said. Following his 0:08:10.721 --> 0:08:14.281 wife's death, mister Byrd received three hundred and ninety thousand 0:08:14.361 --> 0:08:19.561 dollars in life insurance and death benefits. Initially, this didn't 0:08:19.561 --> 0:08:25.081 spark suspicions by the original investigating police. The coroner that 0:08:25.161 --> 0:08:28.601 handed down their findings last week was critical of the 0:08:28.601 --> 0:08:32.801 initial police investigations. These are his words, but not his voice. 0:08:33.081 --> 0:08:37.041 It was inadequate. Investigating police should not accept what they 0:08:37.081 --> 0:08:40.201 are told or what appears from the scene to be 0:08:40.281 --> 0:08:43.481 a death by hanging. Such a death should be treated 0:08:43.521 --> 0:08:48.321 as suspicious death until investigations conclusively establish otherwise. 0:08:49.321 --> 0:08:51.441 As you've listened to the last ten minutes of content, 0:08:51.561 --> 0:08:55.161 you can appreciate the similarities with the Westbrook case. The 0:08:55.241 --> 0:08:58.361 key difference here is that the matter was reopened by 0:08:58.361 --> 0:09:02.001 the direction of the Chief Magistrate and a coronial inquest 0:09:02.161 --> 0:09:05.401 was held. This was largely due to the persistent and 0:09:05.441 --> 0:09:09.881 determination of the female detective. A full autopsy was done 0:09:09.921 --> 0:09:14.921 by a highly experienced forensic pathologist in Hobart. Eden's was 0:09:14.961 --> 0:09:19.121 done at Lonceston General Hospital by a pathologist. The autopsy 0:09:19.161 --> 0:09:22.481 photos in Eden's case haven't been handed over to an 0:09:22.481 --> 0:09:27.761 independent expert authorized by the Westbrooks, despite concerning evidence from 0:09:27.881 --> 0:09:31.801 Eden's sister about the possibility of blunt for's trauma and 0:09:32.001 --> 0:09:36.361 comments made by Kim, the delivery driver who first found Eden. 0:09:36.441 --> 0:09:40.601 In the case of Helen's death, the forensic pathologist highlighted. 0:09:40.321 --> 0:09:44.721 The difficulties in distinguishing are hanging by suicide, the possibility 0:09:44.721 --> 0:09:47.561 of a lack of restraint or defensive type injuries in 0:09:47.601 --> 0:09:51.641 the case of a suspected murder, and the possibility of 0:09:51.681 --> 0:09:54.241 a murder being staged as a suicide by hanging. 0:09:55.201 --> 0:09:58.161 From what we can see, it appears the pathologist undertaking 0:09:58.401 --> 0:10:03.681 Eden's autopsy didn't consider alternative scenarios, but we have not 0:10:03.761 --> 0:10:06.841 had the benefit of reading the autopsy report. The expert 0:10:06.921 --> 0:10:10.281 engaged number half of the Westbrooks has but has been 0:10:10.361 --> 0:10:14.081 stymied in finalizing the report due to the non provision 0:10:14.481 --> 0:10:16.081 of the autopsy photos. 0:10:16.361 --> 0:10:21.641 I have never faced this problem before, and I'm astounded 0:10:22.361 --> 0:10:25.721 that it has occurred, and it beggars belief that it 0:10:25.801 --> 0:10:31.361 has occurred, because I understand that the photographs are very 0:10:31.401 --> 0:10:37.881 sensitive and can be very disconcerting and upsetting to people 0:10:37.921 --> 0:10:43.001 who may view them either with or without permission, or 0:10:43.721 --> 0:10:46.001 in other words, whether they should be viewing them or not. 0:10:46.921 --> 0:10:50.001 But as far as I'm concerned as a consultant forensic 0:10:50.041 --> 0:10:55.721 pathologist who've been retained in this case or any other case, 0:10:56.201 --> 0:10:59.561 and it's the same for every case with the appropriate 0:10:59.601 --> 0:11:04.321 training or even more training than the individual who they 0:11:04.361 --> 0:11:08.721 have carried out the post mortem examination, then I fail 0:11:08.841 --> 0:11:14.241 to understand the reasoning behind any refusal, and it's not 0:11:14.361 --> 0:11:20.721 occurred in any request that I've made ever over my career. 0:11:21.801 --> 0:11:24.521 And as I said, before they form part of the 0:11:24.601 --> 0:11:31.921 post mortem examination. They're not just an addendum. They're there 0:11:31.961 --> 0:11:37.081 as the autopsy record, as are the histology slides and 0:11:37.201 --> 0:11:44.441 any other investigations such as toxicology, which are always made available. Now. 0:11:45.961 --> 0:11:50.841 Each state differs in their requirements as to what hurdles 0:11:50.841 --> 0:11:55.281 one has to jump in order to obtain materials, including photographs, 0:11:55.921 --> 0:12:01.281 but it is always the current has the authority to 0:12:01.361 --> 0:12:06.081 release or not release any particular item in relation to 0:12:06.121 --> 0:12:10.721 the investigation of the death. But I've never not been 0:12:10.761 --> 0:12:15.681 able to obtain the photographs, although sometimes it's been somewhat. 0:12:15.361 --> 0:12:22.081 Difficult both of these. When I read the decision in 0:12:22.121 --> 0:12:25.801 the Helen Bird case, both hanging cases involves a victim 0:12:25.801 --> 0:12:29.121 with no real motive to commit suicide. Both victims had 0:12:29.161 --> 0:12:30.481 a real love of their family. 0:12:31.841 --> 0:12:32.801 I was relieved. 0:12:33.241 --> 0:12:34.321 I was angry today. 0:12:35.601 --> 0:12:38.161 I was believed because I think that if we had 0:12:38.321 --> 0:12:40.441 walked away at times where we felt like it was 0:12:40.481 --> 0:12:44.921 all too much, we would have missed this opportunity to 0:12:45.841 --> 0:12:48.081 prove Eden did not take her own life, and that 0:12:48.201 --> 0:12:53.321 in fact, people are using suicide as a weapon to 0:12:53.441 --> 0:12:55.441 murder people made I. 0:12:55.361 --> 0:12:59.761 Was extremely concerned. I was concerned for the fact that 0:12:59.961 --> 0:13:04.041 it proves that an office can get things wrong, and 0:13:04.321 --> 0:13:08.641 it saddens me that it takes so many years for 0:13:09.001 --> 0:13:12.921 someone's troops to come out. We only got to the 0:13:12.961 --> 0:13:16.961 Helen Bird outcome due to a diligent police officer who 0:13:17.761 --> 0:13:21.281 on the side of the desk over years looked into 0:13:21.321 --> 0:13:24.761 this as she found it unusual death with Alan's case, 0:13:25.081 --> 0:13:28.281 and unfortunately, as you knowj we don't have anyone like 0:13:28.361 --> 0:13:31.041 that on the team working in the Tasmanian Police Force 0:13:31.081 --> 0:13:32.841 that's willing to put it on the side of the 0:13:32.881 --> 0:13:34.161 desk and look into this deeper. 0:13:34.641 --> 0:13:37.321 One of the things we're most interested in the case 0:13:37.361 --> 0:13:40.561 of Helen Bird is the investigations that was done around 0:13:40.561 --> 0:13:45.041 the rope. That rope was never tested for DNA. The 0:13:45.121 --> 0:13:48.321 rope in Eden's death was also the same and it 0:13:48.401 --> 0:13:51.161 offers a glimmer of hope for Jason and Amanda. 0:13:51.881 --> 0:13:55.001 Look, it gives us leverage this outcome with the Helen 0:13:55.001 --> 0:14:00.841 Bird case, Jay, without a doubt, we can use parallels 0:14:00.881 --> 0:14:03.961 in that case to Eden's and come up with solid 0:14:05.041 --> 0:14:06.881 I don't know what you'd call it, is a solid 0:14:07.001 --> 0:14:09.441 evidence that this needs to be reinvestigated. 0:14:10.401 --> 0:14:14.281 The police has said that, we said that the rope 0:14:14.321 --> 0:14:17.601 came from our house, from our craypots. Okay, So if 0:14:17.641 --> 0:14:20.561 that's the case, don't you think the police would have 0:14:20.601 --> 0:14:23.441 come and checked our craypots or taken them away or 0:14:23.481 --> 0:14:24.441 something like no one. 0:14:24.401 --> 0:14:26.001 Asked us, But they didn't. 0:14:26.121 --> 0:14:28.281 They didn't do anything like that because it was all 0:14:28.321 --> 0:14:30.401 a crop of crap and they just made it up. 0:14:30.521 --> 0:14:32.881 Because that's what's that's why a man's a get angry. 0:14:33.401 --> 0:14:34.961 It looks like that's what. 0:14:35.281 --> 0:14:38.761 The conclusion of Eden committing suicide because on the morning 0:14:39.161 --> 0:14:41.321 when a man and I got there and they're saying, 0:14:41.361 --> 0:14:44.961 Amanda said, oh, that's one of our craypot ropes. Amanda 0:14:45.601 --> 0:14:46.001 does not. 0:14:46.121 --> 0:14:49.281 I did not say that as the twisting of my word, 0:14:49.361 --> 0:14:51.841 now them for saying that. 0:14:52.081 --> 0:14:55.481 So if that's the reason that Eden's committed susie, because 0:14:55.521 --> 0:14:58.241 she's taken a craypot rape from the Westbrook residence on 0:14:58.241 --> 0:15:00.721 her way downtown and some five or six hours later 0:15:00.801 --> 0:15:04.961 decided to hang herself, wouldn't you, as an investigative officer 0:15:05.201 --> 0:15:08.721 go to the Westbrook home, sees the craypot that may 0:15:08.761 --> 0:15:10.161 have had the rope removed, to see if it was 0:15:10.161 --> 0:15:12.961 cut or untied. Just those forensics that you would expect 0:15:12.961 --> 0:15:16.361 to be done at no stays, Jahre is at no stays. 0:15:16.361 --> 0:15:20.161 Did we see any police officers or investigating officers at 0:15:20.161 --> 0:15:22.761 our home asking about a rope that may have come 0:15:22.801 --> 0:15:25.401 from our crapepot. And I'll tell you why that didn't happen, 0:15:25.401 --> 0:15:28.081 because there was no crypts ropes taken from my home. 0:15:28.241 --> 0:15:31.041 Eden did not leave this property with a rope. As 0:15:31.081 --> 0:15:33.321 you know, we know the rape come from the wharf 0:15:33.401 --> 0:15:35.841 across the road on a boat that we've given them 0:15:35.841 --> 0:15:39.481 spacific name for. In the RT eyes we can see 0:15:39.481 --> 0:15:41.961 there's been no investigations into the source of the rope. 0:15:42.761 --> 0:15:45.601 On the weekend just passed. Jackie Lamby visited Jason and 0:15:45.641 --> 0:15:48.161 Amanda as they shed in Saint Helen's. 0:15:48.481 --> 0:15:53.241 Yeah, it's really really lovely. 0:15:54.801 --> 0:15:58.321 Sod down to earth. It was like talking to my district, 0:15:58.321 --> 0:15:59.881 you know what I mean. It was just so real, 0:16:00.441 --> 0:16:05.321 real fair income Ausie mate. He told me about her 0:16:05.361 --> 0:16:07.561 career and defense, which I believe is in the book. 0:16:07.601 --> 0:16:10.481 I haven't read the book. Get Jackie sorry. And she 0:16:10.681 --> 0:16:16.321 was just around, yeah, right into our garden and the. 0:16:16.281 --> 0:16:18.121 Fees and our way of living. 0:16:18.241 --> 0:16:20.521 And she spoke about her mother's love for fees and 0:16:20.841 --> 0:16:24.081 gardening and one of the most fascinating she things found 0:16:24.161 --> 0:16:26.401 she found on that property was we've got fully grown 0:16:26.401 --> 0:16:29.401 macademia nut trees, which is something that you wouldn't expect 0:16:29.401 --> 0:16:31.561 in Tasmania, and we're getting a hundred kilograms of nuts 0:16:31.601 --> 0:16:34.281 a year and right now that's what's dropping. So we're 0:16:34.321 --> 0:16:38.881 able to test some Queensland macadamia nuts growing in Tasmania. Jakes. 0:16:39.601 --> 0:16:42.281 She also got the chance to join you down at 0:16:42.321 --> 0:16:43.481 the memorial for Eden. 0:16:45.201 --> 0:16:50.241 Yes, Jackie is really. 0:16:52.081 --> 0:16:52.361 Again. 0:16:52.441 --> 0:16:54.801 She took time out of her busy schedule to pursue 0:16:54.881 --> 0:17:00.081 here on other other things, and yeah, she was moved 0:17:00.881 --> 0:17:04.081 a little shocked at the situation where it is. 0:17:06.241 --> 0:17:08.481 To hear it, it's different to see it. 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.001 Jay, When you're actually at the park, you feel it. 0:17:11.120 --> 0:17:14.160 You feel where Eden died. You feel how close to 0:17:14.201 --> 0:17:18.761 the road it was, how how close to the police station, 0:17:18.961 --> 0:17:22.200 the council chambers, across the roads, the dwarf and people 0:17:22.241 --> 0:17:26.001 don't when they when they hear the story, they have 0:17:26.120 --> 0:17:28.600 their own visuals of it. And I've met a few 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:30.801 people that have listened to your podcasts that have come 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:32.840 to Saint Helens and they've hooked up with us and 0:17:33.201 --> 0:17:37.241 they've all just been flown away with where Eden passed 0:17:37.241 --> 0:17:39.920 and how close it is to the police station, the 0:17:40.001 --> 0:17:43.281 council chambers and the wharf across the road obviously, and 0:17:43.561 --> 0:17:46.680 is the main highway like the main street of Saint Helens. 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:50.801 And she was enthusiastic, and she has no intention of 0:17:51.001 --> 0:17:51.680 backing down. 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:54.400 It's moving, it's nice. 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:57.360 I just found it truly humbling, mate, you know. And yeah, 0:17:57.561 --> 0:17:59.920 she was when she wants to fight something, she's not 0:17:59.961 --> 0:18:03.080 going to back down and she's on the fight. And yeah, 0:18:03.241 --> 0:18:05.561 we're pretty happy with where Jackie is with it and 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.521 where she's going. And as you know, Jason's still got 0:18:08.561 --> 0:18:10.840 a couple of hards the eyes out that we're waiting 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:14.440 for responses to and we've put in more letters to 0:18:14.481 --> 0:18:16.681 the Commissioner of ASMA and Police. 0:18:17.120 --> 0:18:20.360 Jason and Amanda have already put some of these questions 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:23.880 to the Attorney General Guy Barnatt. The Helen Bird case 0:18:24.321 --> 0:18:28.001 shows how the system can sometimes get it terribly wrong 0:18:28.761 --> 0:18:32.321 and the length of time it takes to rectify such mistakes. 0:18:33.120 --> 0:18:37.961 Fourteen years of unnecessary trauma and heightening grieving for family 0:18:38.001 --> 0:18:41.400 and friends in Helen Bird's case. On the eighteenth of 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:45.161 February twenty twenty five, it will be ten years since 0:18:45.321 --> 0:18:50.561 Eden's death. Jason and Amanda Westbrook and their family deserve 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:59.400 answers