1 00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Apoche Production. 2 00:00:10,721 --> 00:00:14,441 Speaker 2: Welcome to another episode of Brave Always, the CEO series. 3 00:00:14,681 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 2: This series, we launch into the new world of brave leadership. 4 00:00:18,601 --> 00:00:20,761 Speaker 1: Happy people create happy businesses. 5 00:00:20,561 --> 00:00:24,201 Speaker 2: True emotionally intelligent leadership. I picked up vomit once on 6 00:00:24,241 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 2: our about our fourth flight, and everybody thought, well, if 7 00:00:26,641 --> 00:00:28,401 Speaker 2: it's good enough for him, I can do it now. 8 00:00:28,481 --> 00:00:31,601 Speaker 2: We will be joined by culture and leadership experts and 9 00:00:31,641 --> 00:00:35,441 Speaker 2: some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth 10 00:00:35,521 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 2: behind their brave leadership journeys. Today I'm talking with the 11 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:43,961 Speaker 2: incredible Maxine Horn, self made multimillionaire CEO and founder of 12 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,401 Speaker 2: Vita Group. She was the two thousand and six QBR 13 00:00:47,441 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 2: Businesswoman of the Year, twenty fourteen e Y Entrepreneur of 14 00:00:50,881 --> 00:00:53,401 Speaker 2: the Year, and Korea Male business Person of the Year 15 00:00:53,441 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. She's a mum to two, my wife and 16 00:00:56,961 --> 00:00:59,761 Speaker 2: this year she made her Shark Tank television debut. 17 00:01:00,321 --> 00:01:00,721 Speaker 1: Woo. 18 00:01:00,961 --> 00:01:02,521 Speaker 2: Maxine's so great to have you here today. 19 00:01:02,521 --> 00:01:04,881 Speaker 1: Thank you very much. As a lot wad an entrance, 20 00:01:05,121 --> 00:01:06,641 Speaker 1: you know, hope I live after that. 21 00:01:06,881 --> 00:01:09,241 Speaker 2: You definitely will so you can't see it behind you, 22 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,521 Speaker 2: but obviously we've got your hair and Brave Always Today 23 00:01:11,601 --> 00:01:15,121 Speaker 2: and Brave focuses on the five elements of brave leadership 24 00:01:15,161 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 2: so bold, resilient, authentic, vulnerable, and empathetic. I always like 25 00:01:19,321 --> 00:01:21,321 Speaker 2: to sort of touch on how we grow up a 26 00:01:21,321 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 2: bit in family dynamics because it always shapes a part 27 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 2: of who we are. So I believe, like myself, your parents. 28 00:01:27,161 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 2: But when you were young and you live with your grandparents, 29 00:01:29,321 --> 00:01:29,521 Speaker 2: is that? 30 00:01:29,601 --> 00:01:31,601 Speaker 1: Yes? Yeah, My grandparents brought me up till I was 31 00:01:31,601 --> 00:01:34,241 Speaker 1: abood eleven ah right. My father remarried and then I 32 00:01:34,321 --> 00:01:38,921 Speaker 1: moved back to live with him between the ages of eleven, sixteen, seventeen. 33 00:01:38,881 --> 00:01:40,241 Speaker 2: And that was all in UK, wasn't it. 34 00:01:40,321 --> 00:01:41,121 Speaker 1: Yeah? 35 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:42,681 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a lot of change. It's sort of 36 00:01:42,681 --> 00:01:45,361 Speaker 2: that young age. So I'm interested to know what you 37 00:01:45,481 --> 00:01:48,521 Speaker 2: learn early on about trust because of that dynamic. 38 00:01:48,961 --> 00:01:53,961 Speaker 1: Okay, straight into it. That's the last question of the episode, 39 00:01:54,001 --> 00:01:55,841 Speaker 1: not the first. I think if you were to say 40 00:01:55,881 --> 00:01:58,481 Speaker 1: to you, are you a trusting person? I think I'm 41 00:01:58,521 --> 00:02:01,481 Speaker 1: a trustworthy person, but are you a trusting person? The 42 00:02:01,521 --> 00:02:04,681 Speaker 1: answer would be no. Yeah, And I often think about 43 00:02:04,681 --> 00:02:08,801 Speaker 1: that myself. Why am I super suspicious of things? Constantly? 44 00:02:08,921 --> 00:02:11,001 Speaker 1: I always say it's too good to be true? It is, 45 00:02:11,241 --> 00:02:14,321 Speaker 1: you know, okay, And I do think it's as a child. 46 00:02:14,441 --> 00:02:17,241 Speaker 1: And if you read all these books by you know, 47 00:02:17,321 --> 00:02:20,041 Speaker 1: psychologists and people like that, they'll tell you that your 48 00:02:20,121 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: childhood is an imprint on your adult life. I won't 49 00:02:23,281 --> 00:02:26,081 Speaker 1: go into that because I don't want to embarrass anybody. 50 00:02:26,121 --> 00:02:29,361 Speaker 1: And I also think being a parent now, I know 51 00:02:29,441 --> 00:02:32,201 Speaker 1: how hard it is. I know how hard it is 52 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: to be on the ball all the time. So who 53 00:02:36,881 --> 00:02:39,481 Speaker 1: am I to criticize how I was brought up? 54 00:02:39,561 --> 00:02:39,801 Speaker 2: Right? 55 00:02:40,121 --> 00:02:42,761 Speaker 1: My parents did the very best they could. My grandparents 56 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,641 Speaker 1: did the best they could. But there were times where 57 00:02:46,121 --> 00:02:48,561 Speaker 1: as a child, I was pushed from pillar to post. 58 00:02:48,721 --> 00:02:52,401 Speaker 1: I was let down and very quickly I grew up. 59 00:02:52,441 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: At about the age of eight, I was very independent. 60 00:02:56,481 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: I sought my own stuff out, and I learned very 61 00:02:58,881 --> 00:03:01,041 Speaker 1: early on that if I wanted something, I had to 62 00:03:01,041 --> 00:03:03,481 Speaker 1: get at myself. When I was twelve, I lied and 63 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,321 Speaker 1: said I was fourteen so I could start working, did 64 00:03:06,441 --> 00:03:09,161 Speaker 1: you so I could get money so I could buy 65 00:03:09,161 --> 00:03:11,481 Speaker 1: myself stuff because we were poor and we didn't have 66 00:03:11,721 --> 00:03:15,161 Speaker 1: enough money to buy the things that my friends had. 67 00:03:15,361 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: And so I realized I have to do this myself. 68 00:03:18,321 --> 00:03:20,441 Speaker 1: And even in the business world, when I first started 69 00:03:20,441 --> 00:03:23,521 Speaker 1: the business, it was very much I'll do it myself 70 00:03:23,561 --> 00:03:24,921 Speaker 1: because I can do it better and I can do 71 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,241 Speaker 1: it quicker. And you have to learn that if you 72 00:03:27,321 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: want to scale a business, you've got to let go 73 00:03:30,041 --> 00:03:33,041 Speaker 1: of that and you've got to trust people and you've 74 00:03:33,041 --> 00:03:35,001 Speaker 1: got to let them do the job. You've got to 75 00:03:35,081 --> 00:03:38,361 Speaker 1: hire the expertise and sit back and let them execute 76 00:03:38,401 --> 00:03:40,841 Speaker 1: with that expertise. And that was a bit of a 77 00:03:40,841 --> 00:03:43,561 Speaker 1: tough lesson for me in the early days. The positive 78 00:03:43,601 --> 00:03:47,001 Speaker 1: side is I grew up very quickly. I became super independent, 79 00:03:47,481 --> 00:03:52,721 Speaker 1: I became very driven, tenacious, I wouldn't give up, and 80 00:03:52,841 --> 00:03:55,601 Speaker 1: all of those skills translated into the business world. 81 00:03:55,841 --> 00:03:59,521 Speaker 2: I agree my interview, who hasn't gone through some adversity 82 00:03:59,681 --> 00:04:01,441 Speaker 2: to be shaped who they are? So I agree there's 83 00:04:01,481 --> 00:04:02,761 Speaker 2: being in the yang of it. But it was just 84 00:04:02,761 --> 00:04:05,641 Speaker 2: sort of interesting that trust component of you give out 85 00:04:05,641 --> 00:04:08,241 Speaker 2: trust openly and then you give it out without people 86 00:04:08,241 --> 00:04:10,041 Speaker 2: having to prove it or do they have to prove. 87 00:04:09,841 --> 00:04:12,361 Speaker 1: It to you first? So I have the three strike rule. 88 00:04:12,441 --> 00:04:15,441 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, So I give out the trust and 89 00:04:15,681 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: I'll give you three goes. 90 00:04:17,161 --> 00:04:17,361 Speaker 2: Yeah. 91 00:04:17,601 --> 00:04:20,121 Speaker 1: Once I'll have a conversation with you and I'll say, 92 00:04:20,121 --> 00:04:22,761 Speaker 1: how did that happen? I don't understand I did this, 93 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,681 Speaker 1: I did this? Tell me if I could have done more. Second, 94 00:04:27,001 --> 00:04:30,121 Speaker 1: it's like, what the hell, because now it's starting to 95 00:04:30,161 --> 00:04:32,601 Speaker 1: be skill or will you know you don't have the 96 00:04:32,641 --> 00:04:35,281 Speaker 1: skill set? Tell me about it and I'll help you, 97 00:04:35,361 --> 00:04:37,561 Speaker 1: I'll develop you, or it's a will you just don't 98 00:04:37,601 --> 00:04:39,601 Speaker 1: want to do it. And then the third one is 99 00:04:39,801 --> 00:04:41,521 Speaker 1: you had two goes at it. You have to go 100 00:04:42,201 --> 00:04:45,561 Speaker 1: and whether that's in my personal friendship group, whether it's 101 00:04:45,601 --> 00:04:49,001 Speaker 1: in the family, or whether it's at work. I feel 102 00:04:49,041 --> 00:04:52,121 Speaker 1: that after three goes you've had enough to prove that 103 00:04:52,561 --> 00:04:53,921 Speaker 1: you're not abusing my trust. 104 00:04:54,121 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 2: I think that's good boundaries, it's good. I love that 105 00:04:56,841 --> 00:04:58,921 Speaker 2: I read in one of the articles that you have 106 00:04:59,041 --> 00:05:01,521 Speaker 2: this need to prove yourself was like a big driver, 107 00:05:01,681 --> 00:05:04,281 Speaker 2: and how you've shown up in business. I wanted to ask, 108 00:05:04,481 --> 00:05:06,161 Speaker 2: obviously how that's helped you. I think we can kind 109 00:05:06,201 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: of see, but also how heavy is that feeling been? 110 00:05:09,201 --> 00:05:11,961 Speaker 2: Does it make feeling successful a perpetual in this goal 111 00:05:11,961 --> 00:05:15,041 Speaker 2: that you can ever reach? Or have you proven yourself well? 112 00:05:15,161 --> 00:05:18,001 Speaker 1: The answer is the format and I still have it today. 113 00:05:18,241 --> 00:05:23,161 Speaker 1: I'm absolutely sure it's come from childhood. I always feel 114 00:05:23,721 --> 00:05:26,961 Speaker 1: the need to be better, and as a result of that, 115 00:05:27,281 --> 00:05:30,921 Speaker 1: I don't celebrate success when I should. I. In fact, 116 00:05:31,001 --> 00:05:33,681 Speaker 1: one of my team members came up to me a 117 00:05:33,721 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: long time ago and we'd hit something like, you know, 118 00:05:36,521 --> 00:05:39,641 Speaker 1: seven hundred and fifty million revenue in a year. We 119 00:05:39,681 --> 00:05:42,601 Speaker 1: announced it and I said, yep, good, Okay, anyway, let's 120 00:05:42,601 --> 00:05:44,601 Speaker 1: get to this meeting going. And he came up to 121 00:05:44,601 --> 00:05:46,401 Speaker 1: me afterwards and he said, you need to learn how 122 00:05:46,401 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: to celebrate success. And I said, well, two things. For me, 123 00:05:51,081 --> 00:05:53,401 Speaker 1: I never had any doubt that we wouldn't achieve it, 124 00:05:54,281 --> 00:05:56,681 Speaker 1: and b I now have the next goal, which is 125 00:05:56,761 --> 00:06:00,681 Speaker 1: a billion. So everyone's a juxtaposition, right, But I'm really 126 00:06:01,201 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: no effort or one hundred percent effort. I can't do 127 00:06:04,561 --> 00:06:07,881 Speaker 1: eighty percent right, And so as a result, you either 128 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,601 Speaker 1: get everything or you get nothing. And I'm constantly aware 129 00:06:11,681 --> 00:06:15,121 Speaker 1: of do I have two high expectations on myself? But 130 00:06:15,201 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: then I realized that no, and you get one go 131 00:06:18,041 --> 00:06:21,161 Speaker 1: around this world, right, so let's make the most of it. 132 00:06:21,241 --> 00:06:22,881 Speaker 2: What do you like being with self compassion? Like in 133 00:06:22,961 --> 00:06:24,801 Speaker 2: Maxine makes a mistake which I don't know if you 134 00:06:24,841 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 2: make to me? 135 00:06:25,241 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: Even if you do. 136 00:06:27,481 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 2: Are you hard on yourself? 137 00:06:28,841 --> 00:06:31,561 Speaker 1: Yes, okay, yeah, I'm very hard on myself. My husband's 138 00:06:31,641 --> 00:06:34,361 Speaker 1: always telling me you are way too hard on yourself. Yeah, 139 00:06:34,601 --> 00:06:36,721 Speaker 1: you know. I'll give you an example. We've just come 140 00:06:36,761 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: back from holiday and I've put weight on because I 141 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,281 Speaker 1: stopped exercising and I ate being you know, half Italian. 142 00:06:42,521 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: I love food, you know, and you put it in 143 00:06:45,081 --> 00:06:47,121 Speaker 1: front of me. I was eating it and I'm now 144 00:06:47,161 --> 00:06:49,561 Speaker 1: super critical of that. And he said, you just need 145 00:06:49,601 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: to give yourself a break. I said, no, you know, 146 00:06:51,401 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: and I'm out walking, you know, fifteen k's a day 147 00:06:53,761 --> 00:06:56,001 Speaker 1: and all this kind of stuff. But it's just my 148 00:06:56,201 --> 00:06:59,361 Speaker 1: mentality and over the years I've learned to deal with it. 149 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,361 Speaker 1: What I have learnt to do is pull back and 150 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,561 Speaker 1: not transfer that expectation onto others. 151 00:07:05,761 --> 00:07:08,161 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah. Do you think that if you're to take 152 00:07:08,161 --> 00:07:10,481 Speaker 2: it easy in yourself or give yourself that grace, that 153 00:07:10,521 --> 00:07:13,481 Speaker 2: you won't achieve as much? Is the distinct correlation? 154 00:07:14,001 --> 00:07:17,641 Speaker 1: Yes? Yeah, I'm very much a product of work ethic. 155 00:07:18,201 --> 00:07:21,121 Speaker 1: There are way smarter people than me out there, like, 156 00:07:21,401 --> 00:07:24,801 Speaker 1: way smarter. But I work hard. I always have done, 157 00:07:25,241 --> 00:07:27,681 Speaker 1: and I always will do. You know, the most challenging 158 00:07:27,761 --> 00:07:30,161 Speaker 1: thing in my life has been when I sold the 159 00:07:30,241 --> 00:07:35,281 Speaker 1: Vida Group and I retired. I really really struggled with that, 160 00:07:35,841 --> 00:07:37,761 Speaker 1: and as a result, now I'm doing a whole heap 161 00:07:37,801 --> 00:07:40,321 Speaker 1: of other things, and I'm at that point where I'm 162 00:07:40,441 --> 00:07:44,121 Speaker 1: very conscious that, hang on, you're almost working full time again. 163 00:07:44,761 --> 00:07:47,881 Speaker 1: That wasn't what you wanted. So I have to continually 164 00:07:47,921 --> 00:07:50,441 Speaker 1: remind myself what were the goals. 165 00:07:50,561 --> 00:07:52,761 Speaker 2: I can imagine that transition for people would be the 166 00:07:52,761 --> 00:07:53,401 Speaker 2: biggest one. 167 00:07:53,561 --> 00:07:56,521 Speaker 1: Yeah. I actually had other CEOs tell me and give 168 00:07:56,561 --> 00:07:58,201 Speaker 1: me advice, and I thought, oh, they don't know what 169 00:07:58,201 --> 00:07:59,161 Speaker 1: they're talking about. 170 00:07:59,001 --> 00:08:02,921 Speaker 2: But they did operated that pace was the wrong It's 171 00:08:03,161 --> 00:08:04,921 Speaker 2: like it would feel odd. Yeah, all right, Well I'll 172 00:08:04,921 --> 00:08:06,481 Speaker 2: go back a little bit here because I think it's 173 00:08:06,481 --> 00:08:08,361 Speaker 2: important to cover off some of these big bits. So 174 00:08:08,401 --> 00:08:11,121 Speaker 2: going back to nineteen ninety five, having spent a number 175 00:08:11,121 --> 00:08:13,481 Speaker 2: of years in telecommunication business, I think it was primary 176 00:08:13,601 --> 00:08:15,761 Speaker 2: sales that you were in at that plus you decided 177 00:08:15,801 --> 00:08:17,801 Speaker 2: to take the plunge and start your own business. Yes, 178 00:08:17,881 --> 00:08:20,721 Speaker 2: phone zone, so selling phones direct to consumers. If I'm right, 179 00:08:20,761 --> 00:08:22,801 Speaker 2: you're pregnant at the time as well, Yes, just as 180 00:08:22,841 --> 00:08:24,001 Speaker 2: something else, just. 181 00:08:23,961 --> 00:08:25,081 Speaker 1: To challenge yourself. 182 00:08:25,121 --> 00:08:27,361 Speaker 2: Do you look back and consider that that was one 183 00:08:27,401 --> 00:08:29,961 Speaker 2: of the most bold decisions that you've ever made that moment. 184 00:08:29,961 --> 00:08:33,521 Speaker 1: I think the most bold for me was leaving the UK. 185 00:08:33,921 --> 00:08:37,441 Speaker 1: So we arrived in Brisbane in nineteen ninety two. When 186 00:08:37,441 --> 00:08:39,201 Speaker 1: I lived in the UK, I had a really good 187 00:08:39,281 --> 00:08:42,561 Speaker 1: job with Mercury Communications, who are the equivalent to Optists, 188 00:08:42,641 --> 00:08:46,721 Speaker 1: so the Challenger brand of the Telco networks was earning 189 00:08:47,121 --> 00:08:50,601 Speaker 1: heap of money. Had two houses in London, so I 190 00:08:50,681 --> 00:08:54,081 Speaker 1: was very well paid and I worked hard and I 191 00:08:54,201 --> 00:08:58,161 Speaker 1: enjoyed London and my husband at the time we got 192 00:08:58,161 --> 00:09:00,921 Speaker 1: married and we've been together a couple of years, and 193 00:09:00,921 --> 00:09:03,481 Speaker 1: then we started talking about family and I said, oh, look, 194 00:09:04,001 --> 00:09:06,681 Speaker 1: I don't want to raise it's in London. He was 195 00:09:06,721 --> 00:09:10,521 Speaker 1: from New Zealand, and being the typical palm I thought 196 00:09:10,561 --> 00:09:13,041 Speaker 1: that everywhere in New Zealand, in fact, all of Australia 197 00:09:13,121 --> 00:09:16,161 Speaker 1: is like Brisbane. So you can imagine my shock when 198 00:09:16,161 --> 00:09:18,521 Speaker 1: we got to Auckland and it was blowing us southerly 199 00:09:18,721 --> 00:09:20,441 Speaker 1: and I just said, I'm not living here. 200 00:09:20,401 --> 00:09:23,121 Speaker 3: Because he flew all the way there and there we 201 00:09:23,201 --> 00:09:25,761 Speaker 3: came over for the Commonweth Games to test it out 202 00:09:25,801 --> 00:09:29,041 Speaker 3: and to see his family and we arrived in Auckland 203 00:09:29,041 --> 00:09:32,121 Speaker 3: and it was dreadful weather and I just said, I'm 204 00:09:32,121 --> 00:09:33,281 Speaker 3: not moving here, and he said why. 205 00:09:33,361 --> 00:09:35,601 Speaker 1: I said, Oh, if I wanted to live in a cold, wet, 206 00:09:35,601 --> 00:09:38,921 Speaker 1: windy city, I'd stay in London. And then, as luck 207 00:09:38,921 --> 00:09:41,441 Speaker 1: would have it, we actually came via Brisbane and we 208 00:09:41,521 --> 00:09:44,921 Speaker 1: had an eight hour stopover in Brisbane and instead of 209 00:09:44,961 --> 00:09:48,481 Speaker 1: staying in the airport, we came out, grabbed a taxi 210 00:09:48,521 --> 00:09:51,001 Speaker 1: and said take us to the nearest swimming pool and 211 00:09:51,041 --> 00:09:54,961 Speaker 1: he actually took us to Centenariy swimming Pool on Gregory. 212 00:09:54,561 --> 00:09:55,481 Speaker 2: Tailor that's from Hill. 213 00:09:55,681 --> 00:09:58,521 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, And we stayed there for six hours 214 00:09:58,561 --> 00:10:02,001 Speaker 1: and the weather was gorgeous. Right. And when people say 215 00:10:02,121 --> 00:10:04,961 Speaker 1: to us, what made you move to Brisbane? I go 216 00:10:05,521 --> 00:10:07,641 Speaker 1: Centenary Baths on spring Hill. 217 00:10:08,121 --> 00:10:09,561 Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, don't you know? 218 00:10:09,721 --> 00:10:11,961 Speaker 1: Like, because I'm a real believer in fate, And I 219 00:10:12,041 --> 00:10:14,241 Speaker 1: think like, if we'd have gone to New Zealand and 220 00:10:14,281 --> 00:10:17,521 Speaker 1: they had a great in Auckland and the day we arrived, 221 00:10:17,601 --> 00:10:19,601 Speaker 1: or even the week we arrived, the weather was great, 222 00:10:20,001 --> 00:10:22,321 Speaker 1: we'd probably be in New Zealand now, yeah, you know, 223 00:10:22,881 --> 00:10:26,441 Speaker 1: Or if we hadn't had an eight hour stopover, in Brisbane. Yeah, 224 00:10:26,481 --> 00:10:28,641 Speaker 1: and did what we did. We wouldn't be here. 225 00:10:28,681 --> 00:10:30,641 Speaker 2: But obviously because if he's from New Zealand, you're from 226 00:10:30,721 --> 00:10:32,721 Speaker 2: UK nine, if you had any family or friends here 227 00:10:32,721 --> 00:10:37,721 Speaker 2: and you're really starting fresh, absolutely yeah, absolutely, Okay. 228 00:10:37,481 --> 00:10:39,841 Speaker 1: So that was probably the boldest thing that we did. 229 00:10:40,001 --> 00:10:42,721 Speaker 2: Okay, So starting phone Zone, the point that you started that, 230 00:10:43,161 --> 00:10:44,561 Speaker 2: was this a moment where you took a leader. Did 231 00:10:44,561 --> 00:10:46,161 Speaker 2: you weigh up all the rest because obviously you were 232 00:10:46,241 --> 00:10:48,601 Speaker 2: entering quite a new market before phones. 233 00:10:48,601 --> 00:10:51,281 Speaker 1: And we had a company called Queenslan Network Options, which 234 00:10:51,441 --> 00:10:55,121 Speaker 1: was an Optu stealer. I'd come over, I'd got transferred 235 00:10:55,281 --> 00:10:58,001 Speaker 1: and I took up a job with Optus Communications. When 236 00:10:58,041 --> 00:11:01,201 Speaker 1: they very first started, and when they first started in 237 00:11:01,241 --> 00:11:04,881 Speaker 1: the industry, they were given advantages by the governments. So 238 00:11:05,201 --> 00:11:08,561 Speaker 1: for example, Telstra couldn't compete with them, they had to 239 00:11:08,681 --> 00:11:11,641 Speaker 1: let them get a foothold into the market. So the 240 00:11:11,681 --> 00:11:16,361 Speaker 1: Optus network in those days utilized Telstra's network. You kept 241 00:11:16,361 --> 00:11:19,881 Speaker 1: your same mobile phone number, same mobile phone. The only 242 00:11:19,921 --> 00:11:21,961 Speaker 1: thing that was different with Optus is that your bill 243 00:11:22,161 --> 00:11:26,161 Speaker 1: was twenty percent cheaper. And also I had the advantage 244 00:11:26,201 --> 00:11:29,921 Speaker 1: of knowing the telecommunications industry in the UK so I 245 00:11:30,001 --> 00:11:32,761 Speaker 1: knew what was going to happen, and I was at 246 00:11:32,801 --> 00:11:35,481 Speaker 1: a barbecue one night telling a friend, you know, I 247 00:11:35,521 --> 00:11:37,961 Speaker 1: don't understand why people are making all this fuss about 248 00:11:38,001 --> 00:11:42,161 Speaker 1: having this retail net when it's not about the physical handset, 249 00:11:42,401 --> 00:11:45,521 Speaker 1: it's about the network and selling the network. And so 250 00:11:45,601 --> 00:11:48,321 Speaker 1: we established this business that you didn't need any stock, 251 00:11:48,881 --> 00:11:52,281 Speaker 1: You just needed salespeople that would go around and get 252 00:11:52,281 --> 00:11:55,441 Speaker 1: people that were already on Telstra and switch them to 253 00:11:55,481 --> 00:11:58,161 Speaker 1: Optus and we got paid for doing that. So we 254 00:11:58,241 --> 00:12:00,321 Speaker 1: did that for a couple of years and built up 255 00:12:00,441 --> 00:12:05,001 Speaker 1: a recurring revenue base. And then what happened when how 256 00:12:05,041 --> 00:12:07,921 Speaker 1: our phone Zone was born was we realized that the 257 00:12:07,961 --> 00:12:11,401 Speaker 1: market was changing and that it was becoming consumerized, and 258 00:12:11,561 --> 00:12:14,281 Speaker 1: the handset became important, and so you did need to 259 00:12:14,321 --> 00:12:17,441 Speaker 1: be in retail. And where do retailers go in Australia. 260 00:12:17,481 --> 00:12:20,361 Speaker 1: They go into shopping centers, and that was how phone 261 00:12:20,441 --> 00:12:24,721 Speaker 1: Zone was born. So that process that we moved towards 262 00:12:24,761 --> 00:12:28,281 Speaker 1: that just seemed very logical to us because we knew 263 00:12:28,361 --> 00:12:30,481 Speaker 1: so much about the industry. We had friends in the 264 00:12:30,561 --> 00:12:32,961 Speaker 1: UK at that time. We were traveling back to the 265 00:12:33,041 --> 00:12:36,841 Speaker 1: UK probably once every eight months because our friends were 266 00:12:36,841 --> 00:12:39,521 Speaker 1: getting married and things like that, and we could see 267 00:12:39,561 --> 00:12:42,441 Speaker 1: what was happening, so we would come back here and 268 00:12:42,561 --> 00:12:44,681 Speaker 1: work out, how is it going to happen in Australia. 269 00:12:45,041 --> 00:12:47,441 Speaker 1: Let's start it now. And you know, one of the 270 00:12:47,441 --> 00:12:49,521 Speaker 1: best things that we ever did for the Phone Zone 271 00:12:49,601 --> 00:12:52,281 Speaker 1: brand was to open up in shopping centers. We were 272 00:12:52,281 --> 00:12:54,681 Speaker 1: the first to open and we had fifteen stores before 273 00:12:54,681 --> 00:12:58,721 Speaker 1: anybody else started putting mobile phone shops in shopping centers. 274 00:12:59,241 --> 00:13:01,041 Speaker 1: So again we got ahead of the curve. 275 00:13:01,481 --> 00:13:03,121 Speaker 2: Yes, I mean it was bold. You probably knew it 276 00:13:03,161 --> 00:13:03,721 Speaker 2: was going to work. 277 00:13:03,921 --> 00:13:06,761 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was bold, it was planned and we had 278 00:13:06,841 --> 00:13:08,081 Speaker 1: mitigated a lot of risk. 279 00:13:08,401 --> 00:13:10,641 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, great. Can you remember a time during that 280 00:13:10,681 --> 00:13:13,281 Speaker 2: period when you're sitting up Phone Zone where you felt 281 00:13:13,321 --> 00:13:16,121 Speaker 2: really vulnerable, like where you were sort of, oh god, 282 00:13:16,121 --> 00:13:17,401 Speaker 2: I'm feeling bit overwhelmed. 283 00:13:18,041 --> 00:13:21,041 Speaker 1: I can absolutely remember. It was about eighteen months after 284 00:13:21,321 --> 00:13:23,761 Speaker 1: the first phones at store. And going back to what 285 00:13:23,841 --> 00:13:25,481 Speaker 1: I said where I used to think that I was 286 00:13:25,521 --> 00:13:27,481 Speaker 1: the only person that could do everything, and if it 287 00:13:27,641 --> 00:13:29,801 Speaker 1: wanted to do it right, I could do it myself. 288 00:13:30,361 --> 00:13:33,641 Speaker 1: So I literally used to do everything, you know, from 289 00:13:33,801 --> 00:13:40,201 Speaker 1: recruitment to accounts payable receivable to payroll to dealing with suppliers. 290 00:13:40,601 --> 00:13:44,201 Speaker 1: And I had an eighteen month old baby, and eighteen 291 00:13:44,241 --> 00:13:47,161 Speaker 1: months in I was driving home. My husband was driving. 292 00:13:47,161 --> 00:13:48,721 Speaker 1: I was in the car, and I turned to him 293 00:13:48,841 --> 00:13:51,721 Speaker 1: and I said, I don't want to do this anymore. 294 00:13:52,161 --> 00:13:54,921 Speaker 1: We were working seven days a week, five in the 295 00:13:54,921 --> 00:13:59,001 Speaker 1: morning till midnight. My son, poor thing, spent his life 296 00:13:59,561 --> 00:14:02,721 Speaker 1: in either my office or the storeroom of a retail 297 00:14:02,761 --> 00:14:06,641 Speaker 1: store in a little portable car. And he said to 298 00:14:06,641 --> 00:14:10,801 Speaker 1: me what he mean. I said, I'm done. I am done. 299 00:14:11,321 --> 00:14:13,281 Speaker 1: And we took a week off. And I don't know 300 00:14:13,281 --> 00:14:15,561 Speaker 1: what the poor people at the office fat they because 301 00:14:15,601 --> 00:14:18,481 Speaker 1: we were always there and they must have thought something's 302 00:14:18,561 --> 00:14:21,841 Speaker 1: going on here. And during that week, we basically sat back. 303 00:14:21,881 --> 00:14:25,281 Speaker 1: We reflected on everything that we'd done, what we had 304 00:14:25,321 --> 00:14:28,401 Speaker 1: to give up, what we thought the opportunities were, and 305 00:14:28,441 --> 00:14:31,281 Speaker 1: how do we go forward because the way we were 306 00:14:31,321 --> 00:14:34,761 Speaker 1: doing it wasn't good enough. We would kill ourselves. We 307 00:14:34,761 --> 00:14:37,441 Speaker 1: were still paying ourselves something like fifty thousand a year, 308 00:14:38,001 --> 00:14:43,161 Speaker 1: like we weren't living the CEO business owner lifestyle. We 309 00:14:43,241 --> 00:14:45,921 Speaker 1: just decided that we needed to recruit people that were 310 00:14:45,961 --> 00:14:49,521 Speaker 1: better at running businesses than what we were. We were entrepreneurs. 311 00:14:49,641 --> 00:14:52,161 Speaker 1: We were entrepreneurial. We would come up with the ideas 312 00:14:52,281 --> 00:14:55,961 Speaker 1: and our ability to take risk was huge. So we 313 00:14:56,001 --> 00:15:00,201 Speaker 1: needed someone that would a stop us going over that line, 314 00:15:00,721 --> 00:15:03,961 Speaker 1: going too far, but would also start to build and 315 00:15:04,041 --> 00:15:07,081 Speaker 1: shape a proper busines business. And that's what we did. 316 00:15:07,121 --> 00:15:09,281 Speaker 1: We went out and our first recruit was a CFO 317 00:15:11,121 --> 00:15:15,361 Speaker 1: and that was really a mind changing thing for me, 318 00:15:15,481 --> 00:15:18,961 Speaker 1: in particular around the power of a team is so 319 00:15:19,041 --> 00:15:20,401 Speaker 1: much greater than the individual. 320 00:15:20,801 --> 00:15:24,121 Speaker 2: Yeah. Right, So if you think about vulnerability now in 321 00:15:24,161 --> 00:15:26,361 Speaker 2: your life, I talk about vulnerability as and speaking from 322 00:15:26,361 --> 00:15:28,001 Speaker 2: the messy middle. You don't have the answers, and I 323 00:15:28,001 --> 00:15:30,361 Speaker 2: imagine the beginning of phone zone exactly that moment, right, 324 00:15:30,401 --> 00:15:32,321 Speaker 2: You're quite vulnerable to tell your husband, I don't think 325 00:15:32,361 --> 00:15:35,001 Speaker 2: I can do this les something different. How comfortable are 326 00:15:35,041 --> 00:15:37,081 Speaker 2: you with vulnerability now when things aren't going well? 327 00:15:37,161 --> 00:15:40,361 Speaker 1: It depends who I'm with, and I think if it's 328 00:15:40,361 --> 00:15:43,921 Speaker 1: in a work environment, I'm very open around what I 329 00:15:44,001 --> 00:15:46,481 Speaker 1: do and don't know. I'm very aware of what I'm 330 00:15:46,521 --> 00:15:48,361 Speaker 1: good at, what I'm not good at, and I don't 331 00:15:48,401 --> 00:15:51,641 Speaker 1: have any shame in saying I have no idea about that. 332 00:15:52,041 --> 00:15:54,161 Speaker 1: I need someone to help me here. I know I'll 333 00:15:54,201 --> 00:15:55,961 Speaker 1: pick it up, and i know I've got the smarts 334 00:15:56,001 --> 00:15:58,801 Speaker 1: to work through it, but I still need someone to help. 335 00:15:59,041 --> 00:16:02,561 Speaker 1: From a vulnerability perspective. As a leader, people do look 336 00:16:02,601 --> 00:16:06,921 Speaker 1: to you to pave the way. I always come back 337 00:16:06,961 --> 00:16:09,961 Speaker 1: to being honest and saying, look, I don't know either, 338 00:16:10,481 --> 00:16:13,201 Speaker 1: give me time and I will find out. Trust me 339 00:16:13,361 --> 00:16:16,081 Speaker 1: to have your best interests at heart. And that's how 340 00:16:16,121 --> 00:16:19,241 Speaker 1: I've always run the business. I've been very upfront. I've 341 00:16:19,281 --> 00:16:22,201 Speaker 1: said to people, even when we went from private to public. 342 00:16:23,001 --> 00:16:25,441 Speaker 1: When you're a publicly listed company, you can't tell everybody 343 00:16:25,521 --> 00:16:28,001 Speaker 1: everything right because you have to tell your shareholders first. 344 00:16:28,481 --> 00:16:30,921 Speaker 1: And I would say to the employees, I can't tell 345 00:16:30,961 --> 00:16:34,721 Speaker 1: you that now, but when I can, I will. You 346 00:16:34,801 --> 00:16:37,841 Speaker 1: will be the second people to know. And that's just 347 00:16:37,961 --> 00:16:41,561 Speaker 1: because I'm under a legislation to do that. And I 348 00:16:41,641 --> 00:16:44,361 Speaker 1: used to say to my team, stop treating people like mushrooms. 349 00:16:44,401 --> 00:16:46,281 Speaker 1: You know, keep them in the dark and feed them 350 00:16:46,281 --> 00:16:49,321 Speaker 1: on bullshit. Yah, don't do that. They're smart, they know 351 00:16:49,441 --> 00:16:53,081 Speaker 1: where you're lying to them. Be authentic, Tell them the truth, 352 00:16:53,441 --> 00:16:56,001 Speaker 1: even if you know they're not going to want to 353 00:16:56,041 --> 00:16:59,401 Speaker 1: hear that, make sure you deliver it in a certain way, 354 00:17:00,001 --> 00:17:03,201 Speaker 1: but don't pushy foot around because they're smart enough to 355 00:17:03,241 --> 00:17:05,481 Speaker 1: work it out. And so I've always done that, and 356 00:17:05,521 --> 00:17:08,561 Speaker 1: there's been a number of instances in the development of 357 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 1: Phone Zone and Vita Group where I've been upfront with 358 00:17:10,721 --> 00:17:13,801 Speaker 1: people and it's paid off and it could have you know, 359 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 1: you talk about bold moments as a few bold moments 360 00:17:16,441 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: that we've had where I've gone, oh, should we do this? 361 00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: But I guess my personal core value set has said no, 362 00:17:22,041 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: this is the right way to do it. Yeah. 363 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 2: I love that. I mean, I think that's the biggest 364 00:17:25,921 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 2: thing with people. You don't have to have the answers. 365 00:17:28,360 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 2: The vunderbility can speak exactly what you just said, being 366 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:32,201 Speaker 2: able to say actually, I don't know, but I come 367 00:17:32,241 --> 00:17:34,201 Speaker 2: back to you. I think that's missing so many times 368 00:17:34,241 --> 00:17:36,721 Speaker 2: where leaders will just not talk at all, and then 369 00:17:36,721 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 2: the rumor starts. You lose the narrative then completely. So 370 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 2: I really love that. So Phon Zone began an incredible journey. 371 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 2: Do you sit now as see your Vita group still. 372 00:17:44,681 --> 00:17:47,401 Speaker 1: Or you No? No, So the Vida Group's been sold. Yes, 373 00:17:47,521 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: So I'm officially retired, officially retired, but I do dabble. 374 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 2: You do dabble. 375 00:17:53,201 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: I'm a dabbler, so obviously. 376 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,721 Speaker 2: Your entire journey would been filled with obstacles and challenges. 377 00:17:57,761 --> 00:18:00,681 Speaker 2: But was there a single experience that you think had 378 00:18:00,681 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 2: the biggest impact on where you're sitting here today. 379 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,561 Speaker 1: I think people under estimate the value of having mentors. 380 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: I in every life span, I believe we have at 381 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: least five mentors and their personal and business. You know, 382 00:18:15,521 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: my grandfather was one of my personal mentors as a 383 00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: young child, and I'm pretty sure he's the one that 384 00:18:20,681 --> 00:18:24,441 Speaker 1: installed work ethic contemty. Now, if I think about business, 385 00:18:24,561 --> 00:18:27,241 Speaker 1: When I was in the UK and I was working 386 00:18:27,241 --> 00:18:32,481 Speaker 1: in sales, my boss left, an incoming boss came in. 387 00:18:32,921 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: She was a female, and he had given her a 388 00:18:36,481 --> 00:18:38,801 Speaker 1: list of the salespeople and by my name was a 389 00:18:38,801 --> 00:18:42,281 Speaker 1: big black cross, which meant get rid of her right. 390 00:18:42,521 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: The lady that came in. Her name is Trisha Wilson, 391 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 1: and I often think I wonder what would have happened 392 00:18:46,921 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: to me if she had taken his advice. Luckily for me, 393 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,041 Speaker 1: she chose not to take it, and over the next 394 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:58,241 Speaker 1: two to three years we had this real love hate relationship. 395 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 1: I thought she was picking on me and she was 396 00:19:01,481 --> 00:19:04,481 Speaker 1: constantly on my back. She would send me to seminars 397 00:19:04,481 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: and I would have come back and present what I've 398 00:19:06,921 --> 00:19:09,841 Speaker 1: learned to the other salespeople. And you know, when you're 399 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: twenty four and presenting to your peers, that's a big deal. 400 00:19:13,561 --> 00:19:16,201 Speaker 1: Well it was in the eighties, yeah, particularly when they're 401 00:19:16,201 --> 00:19:18,321 Speaker 1: all older than you. Like I said at the time, 402 00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:21,001 Speaker 1: I really thought she's got something in for me. But 403 00:19:21,041 --> 00:19:24,281 Speaker 1: the reality was she was developing me, she was mentoring me, 404 00:19:24,921 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 1: and she made me the leader that I am today. 405 00:19:29,001 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: And I was really fortunate enough her and her husband 406 00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 1: came out to Brisbane or maybe fifteen years ago and 407 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,441 Speaker 1: I got to say that to her, And now, even 408 00:19:39,481 --> 00:19:41,921 Speaker 1: now it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. 409 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: I wanted her to know just what a tremendous impact 410 00:19:44,961 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: she had on me, both professionally but also personally, and 411 00:19:49,481 --> 00:19:51,561 Speaker 1: I just wanted her to know that. So that's a 412 00:19:51,801 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: huge thing for me. And I also had another mentor, 413 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,721 Speaker 1: my chairman at Vida Group, a gentleman called Dick Simpson. 414 00:19:57,801 --> 00:20:01,761 Speaker 1: He was very skilled in handling me the qualities that 415 00:20:01,801 --> 00:20:04,201 Speaker 1: it takes to be an entrepreneur, to be a founder 416 00:20:04,241 --> 00:20:07,521 Speaker 1: of a business, to get in you know, the trenches 417 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,801 Speaker 1: and fight for your business are very different to the 418 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,201 Speaker 1: qualities that you need to be a public CEO. And 419 00:20:14,281 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: without him, I would not have been able to achieve that. 420 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,041 Speaker 1: He guided me in a lot of areas. And even 421 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,041 Speaker 1: you know today he still calls me his polished rough dye. 422 00:20:23,201 --> 00:20:25,241 Speaker 1: What he used to call me is rough dimond apparently 423 00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:27,241 Speaker 1: now unpolished. Now. I like that. 424 00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 2: I like that. Oh that's wonderful. Yeah, mentors, I think 425 00:20:30,281 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 2: it's a huging and so many people miss out and 426 00:20:31,921 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 2: don't have those. 427 00:20:32,801 --> 00:20:35,761 Speaker 1: Yeah, all think it's a wank. You know, they just say, 428 00:20:35,761 --> 00:20:37,681 Speaker 1: oh men, oh that's a big wank. They'll just get 429 00:20:37,681 --> 00:20:39,801 Speaker 1: me to do stuff that they will let me do. 430 00:20:39,961 --> 00:20:41,801 Speaker 2: Maybe it's a time thing or people willing to be 431 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 2: able to do it, or the capacity or whatever it is. 432 00:20:43,921 --> 00:20:47,001 Speaker 2: I potentially it's a lot of organizations putting it in 433 00:20:47,041 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 2: as a program. But I think it's a very very 434 00:20:48,761 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 2: beneficial thing. It's still a fixed you today. 435 00:20:51,201 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 1: That's wonderful. 436 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that, considering the fact that you are 437 00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:57,281 Speaker 2: now semi retired. Yes, I think part of resilience, in 438 00:20:57,321 --> 00:21:00,441 Speaker 2: my view, is having a clear and defined visual purpose 439 00:21:00,761 --> 00:21:02,961 Speaker 2: that you commit to beyond the role you're in now 440 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,360 Speaker 2: or the experience you're having. People of fen figure that. 441 00:21:05,481 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 2: So do you still set long term goals for yourself 442 00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:10,521 Speaker 2: now even though that that part of your career is over? Yes? 443 00:21:10,561 --> 00:21:13,561 Speaker 1: I do. Yeah, And my kids hate this. So every 444 00:21:13,961 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: New Year's Day, which I know it goes with you know, 445 00:21:17,201 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: resolutions and things like this, but I make them write 446 00:21:19,441 --> 00:21:24,640 Speaker 1: down three personal goals, three health goals, three work goals, 447 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,801 Speaker 1: three family goals, and then we review them on New 448 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,041 Speaker 1: Year's Eve. So we go through that process and it 449 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: doesn't matter if you don't achieve them. It's like what 450 00:21:35,441 --> 00:21:38,521 Speaker 1: happens to cause you to not achieve them, you know, 451 00:21:38,761 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: And that's what we talk about. I'm very much on 452 00:21:41,041 --> 00:21:44,321 Speaker 1: goal setting. I'm a list maker. I'm a prolific list maker, 453 00:21:44,921 --> 00:21:48,281 Speaker 1: and I set goals both short term and long term. 454 00:21:48,441 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. Amazing. Empathy. I feel like it's one of the 455 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,561 Speaker 2: biggest challenges I find in my work for leaders, their 456 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,041 Speaker 2: ability to hold space for people's emotions. Do you feel 457 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,360 Speaker 2: like empathy is a strong space for you or is 458 00:21:58,360 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 2: something challenging having been the person at the top all 459 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,121 Speaker 2: the time or with the profile you have, Like when 460 00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:06,081 Speaker 2: people say Maxine Horn empathetic lead out. Do you think 461 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 2: it comes with what people know of you. 462 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,921 Speaker 1: I think it comes as caring. I think they would 463 00:22:11,921 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: say the word caring and is really interested in me 464 00:22:15,561 --> 00:22:18,721 Speaker 1: and my career as a person. I feel like even 465 00:22:18,721 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: now I get emails from people at Vita where two 466 00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: weeks ago I got an email from a gentleman up 467 00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 1: in cans who's just taken on his Harvey Norman franchise. 468 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,281 Speaker 1: Basically the crux of the email was, I just wanted 469 00:22:31,321 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: to reach out and thank you because if it wasn't 470 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:35,561 Speaker 1: for you, I wouldn't be here today, you know, and 471 00:22:35,801 --> 00:22:39,041 Speaker 1: that's what makes me do what I do. You know, 472 00:22:39,041 --> 00:22:41,561 Speaker 1: people used to say to me, why do you work? 473 00:22:41,681 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: You don't need to, and I said, well, that's because 474 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: you associate work with money. I said, I work for 475 00:22:46,481 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: other things and helping building things. And if that's building 476 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 1: people and helping them with their careers, which subsequently helps 477 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,761 Speaker 1: them with their private life, I get a real buzz 478 00:22:57,801 --> 00:23:00,441 Speaker 1: out of seeing that. So I think they would say 479 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: I'm empathetic to a degree. But then that three strike 480 00:23:03,801 --> 00:23:06,761 Speaker 1: rule comes in strong boundaries. If I think you're taking 481 00:23:06,801 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: the piss, yeah, I will also stop that and I 482 00:23:09,561 --> 00:23:12,441 Speaker 1: will shut it down, and I've said to people, I'm 483 00:23:12,481 --> 00:23:15,281 Speaker 1: going to give you leeway here. You know the three 484 00:23:15,321 --> 00:23:17,921 Speaker 1: strike rule. I said, you break that eye will come 485 00:23:17,961 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 1: down on you like a ton of bricks. 486 00:23:19,681 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 2: But they know where they stand with you. 487 00:23:20,921 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 1: Absolutely love it. I think that's yes, they all know 488 00:23:23,721 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: exactly where they stand with me. Yeah. I love that. 489 00:23:26,001 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 2: Being in the public eye or high profile that of 490 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,081 Speaker 2: role has its challenges when being truly authentic all the time, Yeah, 491 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:33,041 Speaker 2: because there's always a fear that if you say what 492 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:34,921 Speaker 2: you really think, or you open up, that you could 493 00:23:34,921 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 2: be rejected or judged. Do you feel looking back that 494 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 2: you were able to be truly yourself. Have people had 495 00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:41,521 Speaker 2: a chance to know this or if you had to 496 00:23:41,561 --> 00:23:42,001 Speaker 2: hold back? 497 00:23:42,561 --> 00:23:47,401 Speaker 1: I feel there have been instances where when I get 498 00:23:47,481 --> 00:23:51,441 Speaker 1: angry and disappointed with people, I really want to tell 499 00:23:51,441 --> 00:23:54,241 Speaker 1: them what I think, and I've held back because I've 500 00:23:54,241 --> 00:23:59,041 Speaker 1: also been aware that I am getting emotional here, and 501 00:23:59,241 --> 00:24:01,801 Speaker 1: at the height of emotion people say things that they 502 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 1: don't really mean. I've chosen to just shut down, and 503 00:24:05,681 --> 00:24:08,841 Speaker 1: that's been my way of dealing with it. So there 504 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: have been instances where I've wanted to be a little 505 00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: bit more truthful what I think I've chosen to do. 506 00:24:14,281 --> 00:24:17,041 Speaker 1: Of what I've managed to be successful at doing, is 507 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,481 Speaker 1: that at a later date, I've been able to come 508 00:24:20,521 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 1: back to that conversation yeah, and say this happened, and 509 00:24:24,441 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: this happened. I'd just like to explore why, because that 510 00:24:27,801 --> 00:24:31,561 Speaker 1: made me really angry, or I was disappointed in that behavior, 511 00:24:32,201 --> 00:24:35,441 Speaker 1: or I'd like to understand what caused that from your perspective, 512 00:24:35,481 --> 00:24:39,321 Speaker 1: because that wasn't normal. So I've always tried to come back. 513 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 1: There are times in the moment where I haven't been authentic, 514 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:45,801 Speaker 1: but I've tried to readdress it later. 515 00:24:45,921 --> 00:24:47,721 Speaker 2: I don't know that you weren't being authentic, though, because 516 00:24:47,761 --> 00:24:50,081 Speaker 2: I think it's that both of the Taling backgrounds right 517 00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:51,801 Speaker 2: fit fire enough, right. 518 00:24:51,961 --> 00:24:52,361 Speaker 1: Yeah. 519 00:24:52,441 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 2: The fact that you'll pause to just not let what 520 00:24:55,241 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 2: I want to say, all the emotion come out with it. 521 00:24:57,681 --> 00:24:59,241 Speaker 2: I don't know if that's not authentic. I actually think that's 522 00:24:59,281 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 2: really great. I think if you come back and still 523 00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:04,041 Speaker 2: say what you need to say, but maybe it's calm 524 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 2: and tempered. 525 00:25:04,681 --> 00:25:07,681 Speaker 1: I yeah, because I am very aware. I go from 526 00:25:07,801 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: zero to one hundred and two seconds, yeah, but likewise 527 00:25:10,761 --> 00:25:13,321 Speaker 1: I go from one hundred to zero in the next 528 00:25:13,321 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 1: two seconds. And I've moved on, and in the early 529 00:25:15,761 --> 00:25:19,041 Speaker 1: days and probably still in some cases at work, I 530 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: would move on and I would leave these people that 531 00:25:21,441 --> 00:25:26,801 Speaker 1: i'd spoken to absolutely decimated bits and thinking, oh my god, 532 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: she hates me, and I A right, no, I don't, 533 00:25:30,041 --> 00:25:33,521 Speaker 1: you know. So it's really interesting. I think the biggest 534 00:25:33,521 --> 00:25:36,561 Speaker 1: thing as a leader is being very conscious of your traits, 535 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 1: your behaviors and the impact that they can have or 536 00:25:40,681 --> 00:25:45,761 Speaker 1: the unintended consequences of them on your team, and being 537 00:25:45,961 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 1: very aware that I can't do that, you know, And 538 00:25:49,721 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: I used to say to the guys at VITA, I'd say, 539 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 1: people watch what you do more than what they listen 540 00:25:54,921 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 1: to what you say, So be very conscious of your behavior. 541 00:25:59,201 --> 00:26:01,001 Speaker 1: The other thing I talk about is the shadow of 542 00:26:01,041 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: a leader. Your shadow is long and it casts across 543 00:26:04,721 --> 00:26:07,081 Speaker 1: your team. They will do what you do. 544 00:26:07,681 --> 00:26:09,241 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, great nugget. 545 00:26:09,281 --> 00:26:09,761 Speaker 1: I love that. 546 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,161 Speaker 2: I really think that's important. Either you can be honest 547 00:26:12,201 --> 00:26:14,321 Speaker 2: with the team about your style and yes, so that 548 00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 2: they know that. Hey, sometimes I can get quite passionate. 549 00:26:16,561 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 2: I'm not upset with you because you're absolutely right. You 550 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 2: could even think everything's fine. Yeah, I think it's a 551 00:26:20,921 --> 00:26:23,241 Speaker 2: great nugget. So on the other side of a very 552 00:26:23,241 --> 00:26:26,360 Speaker 2: successful career is the fact that you're a mum to 553 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,481 Speaker 2: two yes at four, and you're your son and your daughter. 554 00:26:29,001 --> 00:26:31,081 Speaker 2: Was being a mum or showing up in the way 555 00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 2: you wanted in terms of work, something you had to 556 00:26:33,281 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 2: sacrifice in order to be successful. How do you balance 557 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:36,441 Speaker 2: at all? 558 00:26:36,721 --> 00:26:40,561 Speaker 1: Did I have a whole heap of guilt? Absolutely? Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah. 559 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: I was constantly feeling guilty, particularly you know when they 560 00:26:43,801 --> 00:26:45,721 Speaker 1: come home and say, oh, the other mums are doing this, 561 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 1: and the other mums were doing that. It's like, oh, okay, 562 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: you know, And I went through my speller, doing tuck 563 00:26:50,921 --> 00:26:54,521 Speaker 1: shop and reading and all of those things to be 564 00:26:54,801 --> 00:26:57,041 Speaker 1: the same as the other mums. I think I was 565 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: really fortunate in that it was my business, so I 566 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: got to call the rules. My kids would come home 567 00:27:03,281 --> 00:27:06,041 Speaker 1: from school after school and they'd come into the office. 568 00:27:06,041 --> 00:27:07,721 Speaker 1: They'd sit on a desk, they'd do their home work 569 00:27:07,761 --> 00:27:11,401 Speaker 1: in the office. My son grew up in phone zone stores. 570 00:27:11,961 --> 00:27:14,721 Speaker 1: I also had the flexibility that, if you know, they 571 00:27:14,721 --> 00:27:17,281 Speaker 1: had an assembly and they were getting an award, I 572 00:27:17,321 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: could go in at ten thirty in the morning knowing 573 00:27:20,961 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: that I'd be working till nine that night. Anyway, I 574 00:27:23,521 --> 00:27:26,801 Speaker 1: would flex my hours accordingly, and I would show up 575 00:27:26,801 --> 00:27:29,681 Speaker 1: to as many things as I could. But there were 576 00:27:29,761 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: times when i'd be traveling, you know. I can remember 577 00:27:32,561 --> 00:27:34,921 Speaker 1: instances where I was in the States and I'd get 578 00:27:34,921 --> 00:27:37,801 Speaker 1: a call and one of the kids had broken their 579 00:27:37,921 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: arm and that was it. I would just jump on 580 00:27:40,201 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: a plane and come home. And people would say, oh, 581 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: why are you doing that. I said, Oh, I just 582 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 1: for me more than anybody. By the time I get there, 583 00:27:45,681 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: they'll be fine because their grandmother's there. 584 00:27:47,921 --> 00:27:48,161 Speaker 2: Yeah. 585 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 1: I feel like I was really fortunate enough to, I guess, 586 00:27:51,681 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: set the rules. But what that also enabled me to 587 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,761 Speaker 1: do with Vita is to have a lot more compassion 588 00:27:58,241 --> 00:28:01,281 Speaker 1: and empathy for working moms because I was going through 589 00:28:01,281 --> 00:28:03,561 Speaker 1: it and they'd come and I was so and so sick. 590 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,321 Speaker 1: I said, go just go. I know you'll work it up. 591 00:28:06,721 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: As a company, we worked from home before COVID, did you. 592 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,120 Speaker 1: We had that work from home policy before COVID, and 593 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,441 Speaker 1: it was really aimed at getting mums back to work 594 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: and allowing them the flexibility so that they didn't have 595 00:28:19,681 --> 00:28:22,561 Speaker 1: this burden of guilt, but I could keep them in 596 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 1: the workplace. Yeah, and particular in my workplace because they 597 00:28:26,241 --> 00:28:29,360 Speaker 1: were good, so I think we had quite a very 598 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: family friendly We would always have kids running around the office, 599 00:28:33,001 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 1: delivering things from the copier and things like that. So 600 00:28:36,801 --> 00:28:39,721 Speaker 1: it was very much encouraged that if your child's or 601 00:28:39,801 --> 00:28:40,441 Speaker 1: you stay home. 602 00:28:40,521 --> 00:28:43,121 Speaker 2: I think what I like also here is like the 603 00:28:43,241 --> 00:28:45,881 Speaker 2: encouragement for women if you can, or you're driven, or 604 00:28:45,881 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 2: you're able to think about starting your own business. I 605 00:28:48,201 --> 00:28:50,041 Speaker 2: think your points really bang on there. There's a big 606 00:28:50,041 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 2: difference to when you work for somebody else and you 607 00:28:52,481 --> 00:28:56,081 Speaker 2: said obliged those hours, then yes. I think I've spoken 608 00:28:56,081 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 2: to many women who've said huge sacrifices. I couldn't go 609 00:28:58,521 --> 00:29:00,241 Speaker 2: to any of the kids things, I couldn't do that, 610 00:29:00,681 --> 00:29:02,521 Speaker 2: And you know, myself running the same thing, it might 611 00:29:02,521 --> 00:29:05,641 Speaker 2: be massive hours, but it's my hours, and I think 612 00:29:05,641 --> 00:29:08,401 Speaker 2: that's a big valuable thing for women to take it loutly. 613 00:29:08,521 --> 00:29:11,321 Speaker 1: Yeah, the flexibility that you have around your own business 614 00:29:11,401 --> 00:29:13,561 Speaker 1: is huge, particularly when children are involved. 615 00:29:13,761 --> 00:29:16,121 Speaker 2: You know, I love that our Brave Leadership model is 616 00:29:16,121 --> 00:29:18,681 Speaker 2: based on the premise that putting yourself in situations that 617 00:29:18,761 --> 00:29:21,641 Speaker 2: test you or make you uncomfortable, So what do you 618 00:29:21,681 --> 00:29:23,121 Speaker 2: do to get out of your comfort zone. 619 00:29:23,481 --> 00:29:24,321 Speaker 1: Oh well, shark Tank. 620 00:29:26,121 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 2: I was gonna jump. I'm skipping through my pages here, 621 00:29:28,721 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 2: but I have to ask about shark Tank because I 622 00:29:30,521 --> 00:29:33,561 Speaker 2: know all my listeners want to do that. So firstly, 623 00:29:33,801 --> 00:29:35,801 Speaker 2: was that an easy decision to make? Like, how did 624 00:29:35,841 --> 00:29:36,401 Speaker 2: they come about? 625 00:29:36,561 --> 00:29:40,081 Speaker 1: No? Basically, they contacted me a few times, and my 626 00:29:40,241 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: first instance was to say, no, my private life's my 627 00:29:43,001 --> 00:29:45,801 Speaker 1: private life. I like to stay under the radar. If 628 00:29:45,841 --> 00:29:48,201 Speaker 1: I wanted to be out every single night at functions, 629 00:29:48,201 --> 00:29:50,041 Speaker 1: I could be, but I just don't do that. It's 630 00:29:50,081 --> 00:29:53,281 Speaker 1: not me. I like to have my family life. Yeah, 631 00:29:53,361 --> 00:29:56,721 Speaker 1: I treasure it, I love it, and I'll protect it fiercely. 632 00:29:57,121 --> 00:30:00,041 Speaker 1: Even when I was CEO of a public listed company 633 00:30:00,121 --> 00:30:02,161 Speaker 1: and one of my KPIs was I needed to do 634 00:30:02,281 --> 00:30:04,921 Speaker 1: more pr and my chairman always used to say to me, 635 00:30:05,041 --> 00:30:06,881 Speaker 1: why aren't you at these functions? Why aren't you doing that? 636 00:30:06,921 --> 00:30:08,721 Speaker 1: Why aren't you doing that? And I'd say, because it's 637 00:30:08,721 --> 00:30:11,681 Speaker 1: my home life you're approaching on and I don't want 638 00:30:11,721 --> 00:30:14,721 Speaker 1: to do that. As the CEO and the sixty percent owner, 639 00:30:14,841 --> 00:30:17,921 Speaker 1: I got to have that call. So when they contact me, 640 00:30:18,001 --> 00:30:20,121 Speaker 1: the answer is no, and then they come back a 641 00:30:20,121 --> 00:30:22,601 Speaker 1: couple of times have a meeting with the producers, and 642 00:30:22,601 --> 00:30:25,001 Speaker 1: I said, oh, okay. So I had the meeting with 643 00:30:25,041 --> 00:30:27,321 Speaker 1: the producers. I said to them, look, I want to 644 00:30:27,321 --> 00:30:29,961 Speaker 1: be really upfront with you. I said, I'm split. I said, 645 00:30:30,001 --> 00:30:33,641 Speaker 1: because half of me wants to do it. I feel 646 00:30:33,641 --> 00:30:35,801 Speaker 1: I have a lot to share. I've got a lot 647 00:30:35,841 --> 00:30:39,201 Speaker 1: of experience. I've made all the mistakes that anybody could make, 648 00:30:39,241 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: and I could help people avoid those. I'm interested to 649 00:30:42,601 --> 00:30:47,681 Speaker 1: understand how television works the media side, and I also 650 00:30:47,761 --> 00:30:50,921 Speaker 1: want to meet budding entrepreneurs. I feel like entrepreneurs are 651 00:30:50,961 --> 00:30:55,561 Speaker 1: the lifeblood of any country and we should be absolutely 652 00:30:55,761 --> 00:30:59,561 Speaker 1: supporting them, not just on an individual basis, but on 653 00:30:59,601 --> 00:31:03,801 Speaker 1: a national basis and also from government support too. And 654 00:31:03,801 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: then the other side just really does not want to 655 00:31:06,441 --> 00:31:09,161 Speaker 1: be on TV. I just don't want to put myself 656 00:31:09,201 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: out there. I don't want people to recognize me. I 657 00:31:11,481 --> 00:31:14,121 Speaker 1: don't want any of that. I talked to my family 658 00:31:14,201 --> 00:31:16,121 Speaker 1: and I said, lord, let me think about it. Let 659 00:31:16,201 --> 00:31:18,401 Speaker 1: me speak to my kids first. Because when my kids 660 00:31:18,401 --> 00:31:20,841 Speaker 1: were in school and I used to get into the newspapers, 661 00:31:20,841 --> 00:31:22,561 Speaker 1: they hated it because obviously. 662 00:31:22,161 --> 00:31:23,721 Speaker 2: They got teased at school. 663 00:31:23,961 --> 00:31:25,601 Speaker 1: So I went to them and I said, oh, I've 664 00:31:25,641 --> 00:31:27,441 Speaker 1: been offered this. What do you guys think? And they 665 00:31:27,441 --> 00:31:30,041 Speaker 1: both said that's great. You should do it. And I 666 00:31:30,081 --> 00:31:33,881 Speaker 1: said why, thinking you were so against me even having 667 00:31:33,921 --> 00:31:36,601 Speaker 1: something in the newspaper in the past. And I said, oh, well, 668 00:31:36,641 --> 00:31:38,841 Speaker 1: we're older now and we don't care. And I said, 669 00:31:38,881 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 1: oh okay. And then I spoke to my husband and 670 00:31:41,761 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: he said, yep, agree. I think it's a fantastic opportunity 671 00:31:44,801 --> 00:31:47,721 Speaker 1: for you. You'll be great. And the last thing is 672 00:31:47,841 --> 00:31:49,121 Speaker 1: I was at the gym and so I've had the 673 00:31:49,121 --> 00:31:51,921 Speaker 1: same personal trainer for fifteen years. Oh wow. I was 674 00:31:52,001 --> 00:31:54,241 Speaker 1: chatting to him and he said, you should do it. 675 00:31:54,761 --> 00:31:57,401 Speaker 1: I said why. He said, well, Maxine, I've spent the 676 00:31:57,441 --> 00:32:00,161 Speaker 1: last ten years. People come up to you in the gym, 677 00:32:00,521 --> 00:32:03,001 Speaker 1: they tell you stuff, and you say to them, when 678 00:32:03,081 --> 00:32:05,561 Speaker 1: opportunity knocks at your door, you should open it up 679 00:32:05,601 --> 00:32:08,001 Speaker 1: and let it in. He said, why aren't you doing 680 00:32:08,041 --> 00:32:11,321 Speaker 1: the same thing. And that made me think, yep, I 681 00:32:11,321 --> 00:32:14,001 Speaker 1: should practice what I preached, and so I rang them up. 682 00:32:14,121 --> 00:32:17,121 Speaker 1: I said, okay, I'm in. But I was really uncomfortable, 683 00:32:17,401 --> 00:32:20,321 Speaker 1: and even the first two days of filming, I was uncomfortable. 684 00:32:20,601 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 1: I felt so out of my depth. But I was 685 00:32:23,041 --> 00:32:26,561 Speaker 1: more concerned about doing the right thing by the entrepreneurs. Oh, 686 00:32:26,601 --> 00:32:28,921 Speaker 1: and I was taking all the business notes down and. 687 00:32:28,961 --> 00:32:30,801 Speaker 2: Because it was pretty quick decision making, isn't it. 688 00:32:30,721 --> 00:32:32,921 Speaker 1: It was very yes, And I was very interested in 689 00:32:32,961 --> 00:32:35,801 Speaker 1: the business and you know, and I was so focused 690 00:32:35,841 --> 00:32:38,921 Speaker 1: on them that I kind of forgot about all the 691 00:32:38,961 --> 00:32:41,681 Speaker 1: other stuff that we're supposed to be doing. And Robert 692 00:32:41,721 --> 00:32:43,881 Speaker 1: Hirschowitch actually came up to me and he said, Maxine, 693 00:32:43,881 --> 00:32:47,081 Speaker 1: your problem is you think it's a business show that's 694 00:32:47,121 --> 00:32:51,321 Speaker 1: on TV. It's not. It's an entertainment show that happens 695 00:32:51,321 --> 00:32:56,361 Speaker 1: to be about business. And that really for me. And 696 00:32:56,401 --> 00:32:58,001 Speaker 1: then I started having a bit of fun with it. 697 00:32:58,681 --> 00:33:01,081 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I could say. So when you see people 698 00:33:01,121 --> 00:33:04,401 Speaker 2: coming as an entrepreneurs, what's kind of the biggest pitfall 699 00:33:04,401 --> 00:33:07,681 Speaker 2: that you seech time? Like when individuals pitch, like, is 700 00:33:07,721 --> 00:33:09,881 Speaker 2: this sort of a common mistake that they're making. 701 00:33:09,801 --> 00:33:13,241 Speaker 1: They don't know their numbers. It's not that they don't 702 00:33:13,281 --> 00:33:16,001 Speaker 1: know their numbers. We're not all number people, right, But 703 00:33:16,041 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: what that tells me is behind that is that they 704 00:33:18,241 --> 00:33:20,601 Speaker 1: don't care that much about whether their business is successful 705 00:33:20,641 --> 00:33:23,081 Speaker 1: or not. You know, it's not all consuming. They're not 706 00:33:23,601 --> 00:33:25,601 Speaker 1: focused on one hundred percent of the time. They're not 707 00:33:25,641 --> 00:33:28,401 Speaker 1: doing this, they're not doing that. It's what that flows 708 00:33:28,441 --> 00:33:32,681 Speaker 1: onto as opposed to not knowing the numbers. They're just 709 00:33:32,801 --> 00:33:33,801 Speaker 1: drifting in business. 710 00:33:33,921 --> 00:33:35,921 Speaker 2: Are you sort of sold now? In the future series, 711 00:33:35,921 --> 00:33:36,561 Speaker 2: We're going to see you. 712 00:33:36,761 --> 00:33:39,841 Speaker 1: Oh if they do another series, yes, I'd go. Yes. 713 00:33:40,121 --> 00:33:43,961 Speaker 1: So it all comes down to viewing chaps, ladies and jens. 714 00:33:44,001 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 2: So please, everyone loves watching Shark Tank. I mean, do 715 00:33:48,241 --> 00:33:50,881 Speaker 2: people feel intimidated? Like is there an element of it? 716 00:33:50,921 --> 00:33:54,281 Speaker 1: Can I tell you? I would be absolutely peeing my 717 00:33:54,481 --> 00:33:58,281 Speaker 1: pants as an entrepreneur, wouldn't you just panel of walking? 718 00:33:58,561 --> 00:34:03,121 Speaker 1: They've got this music that is like Jaws and you 719 00:34:03,361 --> 00:34:06,801 Speaker 1: get pummeled of this and during editing they cut it 720 00:34:06,841 --> 00:34:09,961 Speaker 1: down a lot, but you're pummeled for forty five minutes 721 00:34:10,001 --> 00:34:12,841 Speaker 1: to an hour. Is it that money? Yeah? 722 00:34:12,841 --> 00:34:15,241 Speaker 2: Wow, there's no mercy, is there no? 723 00:34:15,441 --> 00:34:18,001 Speaker 1: You know, someone will ask a question around the financewers 724 00:34:18,041 --> 00:34:20,001 Speaker 1: and then one of the other sharks will pick up 725 00:34:20,001 --> 00:34:23,041 Speaker 1: on something and it will be a totally different question. 726 00:34:23,441 --> 00:34:24,921 Speaker 1: And there are a couple of times where I said, 727 00:34:25,001 --> 00:34:28,801 Speaker 1: slow down, let them answer the first question, you know, right, Yeah, 728 00:34:28,881 --> 00:34:32,321 Speaker 1: So it would be really nerve wracking and the number 729 00:34:32,321 --> 00:34:36,361 Speaker 1: of entrepreneurs that they've practiced and practiced and practiced the 730 00:34:36,361 --> 00:34:37,001 Speaker 1: whole pitch. 731 00:34:37,281 --> 00:34:40,601 Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing. All right, So I want to ask you. 732 00:34:40,681 --> 00:34:42,161 Speaker 2: This is going to be curly one. I love giving 733 00:34:42,161 --> 00:34:44,161 Speaker 2: a couple of I found this question the other day. 734 00:34:44,201 --> 00:34:47,201 Speaker 2: It was from some Harvard psychologists, and every time I 735 00:34:47,241 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 2: ask it, most people sort of pause, will they answer. 736 00:34:49,041 --> 00:34:51,801 Speaker 2: But I'm going to throw it to you. What I 737 00:34:51,841 --> 00:34:55,161 Speaker 2: want to know is why should anyone be led by you? 738 00:34:56,121 --> 00:35:00,241 Speaker 1: Oh? Okay. I'm very good at listening to where they 739 00:35:00,241 --> 00:35:02,281 Speaker 1: want to take the business, where they want to take 740 00:35:02,321 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: their career, what they're wanting to get out of, and 741 00:35:06,321 --> 00:35:10,081 Speaker 1: bringing it back to a realistic goal. And then I'm 742 00:35:10,201 --> 00:35:13,201 Speaker 1: very good at having that goal at the back of 743 00:35:13,281 --> 00:35:16,721 Speaker 1: my mind in what I'm doing to enable to develop them. 744 00:35:16,921 --> 00:35:19,161 Speaker 1: Because you know, I'm a real big believer that people 745 00:35:19,241 --> 00:35:22,161 Speaker 1: work because they want to upskill themselves. If you think 746 00:35:22,161 --> 00:35:26,161 Speaker 1: about us as human beings, we constantly want to upskill ourselves. 747 00:35:26,201 --> 00:35:28,321 Speaker 1: That's why we learn how to drive a car, so 748 00:35:28,401 --> 00:35:31,481 Speaker 1: learn to play the piano, learn how to surf. You know, 749 00:35:31,721 --> 00:35:34,481 Speaker 1: all of those are skills and it just makes you 750 00:35:34,561 --> 00:35:38,041 Speaker 1: a much more rounded human being. I feel that I'm 751 00:35:38,161 --> 00:35:41,561 Speaker 1: very good at taking people on that journey and showing 752 00:35:41,641 --> 00:35:45,081 Speaker 1: them how much more they've got in themselves than what 753 00:35:45,121 --> 00:35:47,881 Speaker 1: they think they have. The number of times are sat 754 00:35:47,921 --> 00:35:50,681 Speaker 1: at meetings and yes, I will push you. I will 755 00:35:50,681 --> 00:35:53,401 Speaker 1: absolutely push you, and I will make you think that 756 00:35:53,561 --> 00:35:55,641 Speaker 1: I'm the worst thing, and you'd wish you'd never ever 757 00:35:55,681 --> 00:35:58,001 Speaker 1: met me, because I'll push you way harder than what 758 00:35:58,041 --> 00:36:00,241 Speaker 1: you'll ever push yourself. But it's because I know that 759 00:36:00,281 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: you're able to do it, and the number of times 760 00:36:02,561 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: that I've been in meetings and I've said, if only 761 00:36:05,081 --> 00:36:06,961 Speaker 1: you guys believed in yourself as much as I do, 762 00:36:07,521 --> 00:36:10,601 Speaker 1: So I think that's why I love that. 763 00:36:10,841 --> 00:36:13,761 Speaker 2: So I guess, throughout everything we've talked about today, would 764 00:36:13,761 --> 00:36:15,241 Speaker 2: it come down to the fact that you really believe 765 00:36:15,241 --> 00:36:16,681 Speaker 2: in yourself as to why you've been able to do 766 00:36:16,721 --> 00:36:17,601 Speaker 2: this so well? 767 00:36:17,681 --> 00:36:21,401 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. I remember being interviewed by Journa a few 768 00:36:21,481 --> 00:36:24,561 Speaker 1: years ago or twenty eight years ago, and they said, 769 00:36:24,601 --> 00:36:28,081 Speaker 1: did you always know you would be successful? Immediately I 770 00:36:28,081 --> 00:36:31,041 Speaker 1: said yes, and he said you said that really quickly. 771 00:36:31,041 --> 00:36:32,801 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, No, I always knew that i'd be 772 00:36:32,801 --> 00:36:36,121 Speaker 1: successful at what I didn't but I knew that when 773 00:36:36,201 --> 00:36:40,361 Speaker 1: I finally found my niche, that I would work as 774 00:36:40,441 --> 00:36:42,881 Speaker 1: hard as I had to work, and I'd never give 775 00:36:42,921 --> 00:36:45,481 Speaker 1: up before I achieved it. And I said, that's just 776 00:36:45,641 --> 00:36:46,721 Speaker 1: my mindset. 777 00:36:46,881 --> 00:36:49,281 Speaker 2: So gosh, I resonated with so much. I mean, I'm 778 00:36:49,321 --> 00:36:51,521 Speaker 2: much later in life than you. I wish i'd found 779 00:36:51,561 --> 00:36:54,481 Speaker 2: my niche at twenty four, but nevertheless at forty. I 780 00:36:54,521 --> 00:36:57,001 Speaker 2: think when you do feel like you found it, You're right, 781 00:36:57,041 --> 00:37:00,401 Speaker 2: it's kind of unshakable, right, Absolutely, It's not a if 782 00:37:00,441 --> 00:37:01,961 Speaker 2: it goes well, it is happening. 783 00:37:02,121 --> 00:37:05,321 Speaker 1: I think it's this is going to happen, going to 784 00:37:05,321 --> 00:37:08,081 Speaker 1: have hurdles along the way, absolutely, but I know that 785 00:37:08,121 --> 00:37:11,201 Speaker 1: I can get over them. Yeah, So I love that well. 786 00:37:11,241 --> 00:37:12,801 Speaker 2: I mean I could talk to you forever. I'm going 787 00:37:12,801 --> 00:37:15,241 Speaker 2: to finish on one question. If you could go back 788 00:37:15,321 --> 00:37:19,401 Speaker 2: then to probably maybe before Maxine leaves the UK, even 789 00:37:19,721 --> 00:37:21,601 Speaker 2: what bit of advice would you give her now that 790 00:37:21,681 --> 00:37:24,601 Speaker 2: you think might have made the journey even easier. What 791 00:37:24,601 --> 00:37:25,401 Speaker 2: did she need to know. 792 00:37:26,601 --> 00:37:28,641 Speaker 1: Learn to tell people to fuck off earlier? 793 00:37:31,001 --> 00:37:33,201 Speaker 2: Even earlier? Brilliant? 794 00:37:34,041 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: I think it comes back to that opinions a mother, 795 00:37:38,401 --> 00:37:41,001 Speaker 1: everyone's got an opinion. Yeah, most people that have got 796 00:37:41,001 --> 00:37:44,121 Speaker 1: an opinion, aren't going through what you're going through, you know, 797 00:37:44,441 --> 00:37:49,721 Speaker 1: and haven't got the tenacity, the energy, the desire, the belief. 798 00:37:50,001 --> 00:37:53,201 Speaker 1: Why would you care what their opinion is. No, we 799 00:37:53,241 --> 00:37:56,001 Speaker 1: do do yeah, So for me it's yeah, learn to 800 00:37:56,121 --> 00:37:56,721 Speaker 1: use the big. 801 00:37:57,001 --> 00:37:58,041 Speaker 2: Big F a lot earlier. 802 00:37:58,481 --> 00:37:58,801 Speaker 3: Love it. 803 00:37:58,841 --> 00:38:01,001 Speaker 2: I'm going to take that on board. Thank you so much, Magsie. 804 00:38:01,001 --> 00:38:02,201 Speaker 2: It's been a pleasure having you here. 805 00:38:02,121 --> 00:38:04,281 Speaker 1: Today, no problem. Thank you for having me. 806 00:38:04,321 --> 00:38:05,321 Speaker 2: Thank you, thank