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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to The Australian's Money Positive podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: James Kirby, the worst editor at The Australian, and then

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Speaker 1: welcome aboard everybody. Look, one of the things that I've

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Speaker 1: tried to do on the show is to give you

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Speaker 1: a diverse range of views on the matter as we cover.

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Speaker 1: I try to range beyond what you might call the

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Speaker 1: usual suspects, which you get a lot in financial podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Understandably enough. So my guest today is one of the

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Speaker 1: youngest I've had on the show. He is twenty four.

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Speaker 1: Very interesting guest as you can imagine, Taj Pebari. He's

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Speaker 1: written a book called Young, Dumb and Financially Independent, and

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Speaker 1: I talked to him before the show and we've ran

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Speaker 1: through some of the things we might talk about, and

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Speaker 1: I made the point to him that I'm going to

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Speaker 1: start with difficult question because I did a book, a

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Speaker 1: general book in fact, was the original edition of Investment

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Speaker 1: for Dummies, which was they were a big brand at

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Speaker 1: the time, still a big brand, I suppose, and it

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Speaker 1: was an encyclopedic introduction to all things finance.

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Speaker 2: But I was.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, let me think thirty one, thirty two

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Speaker 1: thirty three thirty four, maybe, so I was about ten

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Speaker 1: years older than Dantaj. And why I wanted to bring

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Speaker 1: that up is because I will say to you, Taj Bapari,

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Speaker 1: what kind of twenty four year old tell our audience

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Speaker 1: about investing in finance when you haven't had enormous experience

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Speaker 1: of cycles and life experience.

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Speaker 2: Well that's true, James, I think.

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Speaker 3: Look, I started my journey in the workforce when I

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Speaker 3: was fourteen years old, so I couldn't get a job,

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Speaker 3: a casual job when I wanted one, so I created

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Speaker 3: my own. So I really mayw celebrating my tenth year

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Speaker 3: in my first decade of working for myself, and I

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Speaker 3: guess through that process I've ended up learning some really

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Speaker 3: weird and wonderful things. In financial literacy in particular, was

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Speaker 3: one of those things that I was forced to learn

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Speaker 3: when running my own business, I think built a beautiful

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Speaker 3: social enterprise, and alongside that, without parent or grandparents help,

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Speaker 3: I was able to, I guess, purchase my first term

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Speaker 3: at eighteen, and purchase three more within four or five

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Speaker 3: years thereafter. So I guess I am living braving proof

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Speaker 3: that young people, especially in their twenties, can be financially independent.

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Speaker 1: And you are, and it's very impressive. Tell me you

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Speaker 1: talk about school and that you mentioned financial literacy. Did

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Speaker 1: you see the nap plan results that come out this.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you did it because this is one of

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Speaker 1: your key areas I know, and how disappointing that napplan

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Speaker 1: results are and how it never seems to improve. I mean,

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Speaker 1: enormous amounts of money went in on the Gansky Plan

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Speaker 1: and still we have this basic situation where based the

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Speaker 1: wealthier you are, the more likely you are to do well.

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Speaker 1: If your parents went to university, you're much much more

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Speaker 1: likely to go to university yourself. And we have these

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Speaker 1: sort of terribly it seems to me, the structural barriers.

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Speaker 1: And then in financial literacy TAJ, it's not very different.

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Speaker 1: I mean, in many ways similar issues, except the financial

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Speaker 1: literacy scores are actually going backwards. The netline ones are bad,

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Speaker 1: but they're stable in the their stable in their weakness,

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Speaker 1: but financial literacy is even worse on the recent Hilda

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Speaker 1: on the HILDA scores, what do you think, because you're

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Speaker 1: particularly interested in this and you're involved in it, what

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Speaker 1: can younger people do? And can we expect so much

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Speaker 1: from schools? Anyway, if the if the broader education system

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Speaker 1: is so lacking anyway in terms of its scoring, well,

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Speaker 1: I think there's.

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Speaker 3: Probably a couple of points that James I think the

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Speaker 3: idea of. In all honesty, now I've not seen the

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Speaker 3: Naplin results. I fileself as a student who went through

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Speaker 3: a napliner many years. I think there's the divide between

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Speaker 3: success and traditional education, and I guess the needs of

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Speaker 3: the real world have never been more clear. Right, the

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Speaker 3: value of a school based qualification or a university degree

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Speaker 3: in particular, has changed. Now if I'm going to a doctor,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to get a surgery. Now I want my

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Speaker 3: doctor and my surgeon to have a university degree. Right,

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Speaker 3: I would feel far more comfortable, and I probably wouldn't

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Speaker 3: see a doctor unless they had that qualification. Same thing

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Speaker 3: with a lawyer, some of those technical professions. But for

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Speaker 3: most of the population, the qualification, the certificate really is

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Speaker 3: a mere indication of seat time served rather than mastery

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Speaker 3: and a genuine proficiency or an understanding of a particular skill.

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Speaker 3: I took that rope. I finished school. I just passed,

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Speaker 3: but I built up a number of portfolio of skills

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Speaker 3: in lots of different areas that I was passionate about interesting,

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Speaker 3: and I guess those skills actually mix something because I

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Speaker 3: was able to deliver and demonstrate those skills in the

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Speaker 3: real world alongside school. So I think there's a obviously,

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Speaker 3: if we're measuring the wrong thing in nap plan is

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Speaker 3: a great indication of measuring young people on a very

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Speaker 3: narrow set of skills that may or may not.

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Speaker 2: Be important in the real world.

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Speaker 3: What we like to see when it comes to financial literacy,

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Speaker 3: for example, the teachers want to teach these sort of things, James,

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Speaker 3: but if they don't feel qualified to do it themselves,

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Speaker 3: then we're probably going.

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Speaker 2: To have a pretty tricky situation.

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Speaker 3: That's probably the case we're in rat now, where teachers

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Speaker 3: don't necessarily feel fully qualify themselves to deliver their financial

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Speaker 3: literacy education, and therefore the theoretical knowledge that I guess

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Speaker 3: the curriculum has built into the maths curriculum is being

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Speaker 3: used which isn't overly useful one hundred percent useful in

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Speaker 3: the actual real world, and that's what we're looking at solving.

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Speaker 1: I'd love to ask you a couple of questions just

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Speaker 1: on the hop era, and I know we had a

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Speaker 1: I know we had a plan, but we're varying from

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Speaker 1: it already, but I'm sure you'll be able to wing

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Speaker 1: it with me. Do you think when they measure a

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Speaker 1: Naplin and even financial literacy, it's all about numeracy. A

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Speaker 1: lot of it hangs on numeracy. Do you think that

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Speaker 1: numeracy in and of itself is fundamental to investment or

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Speaker 1: business success?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, we need young people who can count.

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Speaker 3: I fundamentally believe that every single young person needs to

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Speaker 3: have a base level of Matt's understanding, and that's wonderful.

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Speaker 3: I think the issue comes when we start asking young

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Speaker 3: people have a basic understanding. You've how to do a

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Speaker 3: long division, but they can't tell you how interest rates

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Speaker 3: work or compound interest works.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's a problem.

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Speaker 1: Can I rephrase the question. You left school and you

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Speaker 1: went straight in. You have a social enterprise, growing social enterprise,

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Speaker 1: You've written a business investment book, and you also have

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Speaker 1: multiple property interests. Let me rephrase the question. Do you

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Speaker 1: think the ability to successfully invest is in need to

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Speaker 1: some degree?

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Speaker 3: Perhaps for some, but I think overall it's something that

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Speaker 3: you can learn in many cases for a base level

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Speaker 3: of financial understanding. It's a skill and you can learn it,

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Speaker 3: but you need to know where to.

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Speaker 2: Learn it from.

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Speaker 3: If you don't have two parents that have been in

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Speaker 3: the workforce or have got some level of financial literacy themselves,

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Speaker 3: the odds of you getting in school.

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Speaker 2: Was very little.

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Speaker 3: So you've got to learn from somewhere. And that's the

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Speaker 3: big question mark. Where do you actually learn that from?

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Speaker 1: So where did you learn it from?

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Speaker 2: Look, James, So I did finish school. I finished grade twelve,

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Speaker 2: which was great.

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Speaker 3: I just had the attendance to get my certificate of education,

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Speaker 3: so that was wonderful. But I had two parents that

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Speaker 3: cared about me and loved me. One parent, my dad,

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Speaker 3: He couldn't afford to go to university in East Africa,

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Speaker 3: so he went straight into the workforce, and I guess

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Speaker 3: got a really good taste of the world of work

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Speaker 3: from a young age. Mum, on the other hand, she

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Speaker 3: spent a long time in university, went back to university

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Speaker 3: and is in the workforce right now. So I had

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Speaker 3: two parents that worked, and I think the idea of

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Speaker 3: having two parents that work is not novel. But when

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Speaker 3: we used to go out or when we used to

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Speaker 3: sit around for dinner at home, they wouldn't shy away

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Speaker 3: from having discussions about how much they've got to pay

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Speaker 3: on their credit cards. They didn't shy away from discussions

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Speaker 3: about their.

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Speaker 2: Home loans or home loan.

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Speaker 3: They didn't shy away from discussions about how much things

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Speaker 3: in the.

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Speaker 2: Real world cost.

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Speaker 3: And that wasn't just something that started when I was

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Speaker 3: a teenager. These conversations were happening from when I was

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Speaker 3: in primary school. These were just basic household conversations I

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Speaker 3: was having.

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Speaker 1: Telling me that it was very useful, obviously, but they

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Speaker 1: weren't entrepreneurs like you are.

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Speaker 3: I guess dad ended up starting a business a couple

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Speaker 3: of years ago, so he did his toes into the

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Speaker 3: world of small business. But I guess he both parents

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Speaker 3: were in work. They both worked for someone. They saw

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Speaker 3: the value of hard work, and they never shied away

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Speaker 3: from financial discussions or even just hard work conversations in

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Speaker 3: front of us. And I think that was probably it

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Speaker 3: taught us that work. You've got a workout in particular.

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Speaker 1: It's terrific. There's so much I want to cover with you.

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Speaker 1: We'll take a short break. Before I do take that break,

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Speaker 1: I will hit reverse and remind the audience what your

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Speaker 1: main operation is. I know we mentioned the book, but

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Speaker 1: you could give them one an elevator pitch on what

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Speaker 1: your daily on. What as is the group that you're

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Speaker 1: best known.

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Speaker 2: For, totally, James.

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Speaker 3: So it's called the ASE Group, and we do light

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Speaker 3: skills education, employment programs and self employment programs for all

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Speaker 3: these of all ages. We start with young people aged

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Speaker 3: three years old, so in kindergarten, and we take them

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Speaker 3: all the way up until like our oldest participants like

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Speaker 3: seventy three years old, so it covers the whole spectrum

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Speaker 3: and we really equip them with this adulting skill that

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Speaker 3: aren't taught in traditional class frames.

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Speaker 1: Very good, Okay, we'll take a break. We'll be back

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Speaker 1: in a moment. Hello and welcome back to The Australian's

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Speaker 1: Money Puzzle podcast. I'm James Kirby Well, the editor at

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Speaker 1: The Australian, talking to Taj Papari of the AC Group

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Speaker 1: and author of Young, Dumb and Financially Independent. I will

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Speaker 1: say that I had a look at the book, Taj,

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Speaker 1: and I'm familiar obviously with some of the basics that

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Speaker 1: you needed to impart to your readers and very young readers,

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Speaker 1: which is great, and I'm delighted that you're doing that

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Speaker 1: sort of work. Can I just zone in on one

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Speaker 1: thing about financial advice because you mentioned how you need

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Speaker 1: to learn right and my show and this show is

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Speaker 1: really for investors primarily. Lot of people have their own businesses,

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Speaker 1: but it's about the investment point when they go to invest.

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Speaker 1: It might be investing in property, might be investing on

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Speaker 1: the share market, it might be investing in their own

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Speaker 1: super whatever way they want to approach it. So this

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Speaker 1: issue of advice is very central to everybody. Tell me

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Speaker 1: your instinctive perception, if you would, of the financial advice

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Speaker 1: scene that is open to people in Australia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess, James. Look it's tricky.

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Speaker 3: I think the people that I guess need financial advice

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Speaker 3: the ones that can't perhaps afford it, And I think

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Speaker 3: that's unfortunate. We've seen the rise of these wonderful, some

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Speaker 3: wonderful influences that young people have been so attracted to.

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Speaker 3: The generally, the young people that need this advice are

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Speaker 3: the ones that can't afford it. They're in part time

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Speaker 3: casualized work and therefore looking for any way to grow

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Speaker 3: in their lives. They're turning to social media and sometimes

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Speaker 3: they're getting some really poor advice because they quite simply

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Speaker 3: just can't afford real, authentic from an expert. I think

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Speaker 3: the idea that a financial advisor and in some cases

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Speaker 3: is out of reach for some young people, and that's

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Speaker 3: why they're turning to social media to get their advice

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Speaker 3: from that.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And what do you think of the conundrum that

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Speaker 1: they face? Is there a middle ground between finn influencers

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Speaker 1: who are terribly varied in quality and I worry about

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Speaker 1: the banality. Basically, often of the advice is, for want

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Speaker 1: of a better word, that I see there. Sometimes it's okay,

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Speaker 1: sometimes it's absolutely dreadful. And then at the other end

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Speaker 1: there's financial advisors they want five thousand dollars when you

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Speaker 1: walk in the door. What can we do?

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Speaker 2: Is there?

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Speaker 1: What can younger people do?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Like, I think obviously everyone who's doing this is an animal.

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Speaker 3: They've got to make their own decisions, and I think

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Speaker 3: the more options the better. They've got to make a

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Speaker 3: decision on which option ultimately is right for them. I

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Speaker 3: think finfluences can be wonderful. I think they've exposed a

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Speaker 3: lot more young people that wouldn't necessarily be thinking about

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Speaker 3: their careers to the big, wide world of finances, So

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Speaker 3: in that from a place of an introduction, I think

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Speaker 3: that's fantastic. We also know that young people have a

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Speaker 3: very low attention span. Now I'm twenty four, I'm in

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Speaker 3: the heart of gen Z, not a huge user of

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Speaker 3: social media, but my attension spend is far lower than

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Speaker 3: the average human being. I think as we go from

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Speaker 3: gen Z to gen Alpha, that's only getting more more significant.

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Speaker 3: And that's why quick thirty forty second reels on Instagram

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Speaker 3: or TikTok teaching them about a particular area of finances

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Speaker 3: so captivating. Obviously that's not practical, that method or that

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Speaker 3: medium of education is not practical for giving personalized financial advice,

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Speaker 3: but actually recognizing that young people are disengaging far quicker

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Speaker 3: than everyone else, and obviously that's why they're going to

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Speaker 3: social media to get that advice. I think very boring,

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Speaker 3: But there's got to be some level of toning it

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Speaker 3: down and making a lot more youth friendly to get

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Speaker 3: more young people to actually use proper formal advice mechanisms,

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Speaker 3: not your social.

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Speaker 1: Media boring but worthy. Hey, I'm going to pepper you

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Speaker 1: with a couple of quick questions. Okay, what do you

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Speaker 1: think is the most common misconceptions that people younger people

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Speaker 1: make about finance and investing.

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Speaker 3: Look, I think we're seeing so much doom and gloom

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Speaker 3: James about buying your home, and if that's your asset

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Speaker 3: of choice, fantastic For me, it was.

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Speaker 2: I believe in it.

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Speaker 3: It's something that I decided to pursue from a young age.

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Speaker 2: There's so much deerm and.

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Speaker 3: Gloom that buying a house, or buying your first home

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Speaker 3: is it is just not going to happen for this generation.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's crazy.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, you think it's crazy because you think you should

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Speaker 1: have You think you should have a more confident attitude.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's entirely possible for young people. We float these

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Speaker 3: big numbers about media and housing prices across the country

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Speaker 3: and yeah, they look large, and that's well, that's what

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Speaker 3: it is. But statistically, there's fifty percent of hours underneath

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Speaker 3: that that are a lot cheaper. So I guess young

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Speaker 3: people don't necessarily need to buy an average house. They

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Speaker 3: also don't need to buy their dream home. And I

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Speaker 3: think if we look at and expose young people to

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Speaker 3: the fact that housing isn't that.

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Speaker 2: Doom and glowing. And that's just one example.

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Speaker 3: That it's entirely possible to start laying down foundations from

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Speaker 3: a young age. And I think, be that housing, be

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Speaker 3: that their basic share portfolios, start young, start learning young,

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Speaker 3: read a lot, consume a significant amount of information. I

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Speaker 3: think as soon you begin that journey, the happier hopefully

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Speaker 3: they'll be in the future.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I like your to tell me you're familiar are

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Speaker 1: with the show recently on the Fire movement. People love

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Speaker 1: to grab a concept and you know, fire, financial independence,

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Speaker 1: retire early, and we were talking about social media and influencers,

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Speaker 1: lots of that. That Fire movement gets a lot of attention.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's a realistic path to followed that

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Speaker 1: you could retire early? And what do you think you

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Speaker 1: might have to do to achieve that?

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Speaker 2: As you put it, everything's got to be done in moderation.

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Speaker 3: The idea of not having any friends and if you

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Speaker 3: don't have any friends, you don't have any expenses and

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Speaker 3: you can retire early is I guess maybe appealing to

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Speaker 3: an interesting to an interesting introvert who genuinely just wants

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Speaker 3: to retire in the middle of nowhere in a caravan

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Speaker 3: and their friends land. And that's fine. But I think

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Speaker 3: in moderation. That's not such a bad thing. Take everything,

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Speaker 3: like anything in life, whether it be sugar, gingerbe or whatever.

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Speaker 3: Everything in moderation, I think the same thing. For the principle,

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Speaker 3: I think it can equip young people in particular with

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Speaker 3: some good overall financial habits. But again, everything in moderation,

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Speaker 3: and that's probably a really good, a good one.

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Speaker 1: All right, let me try something else with you, you're

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Speaker 1: twenty four. If you walk up tomorrow and you're thirty four,

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Speaker 1: and you're two small kids and a large mortgage, and

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Speaker 1: let's just say, for to make it even more interesting,

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Speaker 1: that your career was going through a more difficult patch

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Speaker 1: than it is at the moment. For whatever purpose, do

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Speaker 1: you think your attitude and the concepts you've put forward

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Speaker 1: in your book about financial independence and the approach would

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Speaker 1: change in any fashion.

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Speaker 3: Look, James, well, I don't have any human kids. I

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Speaker 3: do have two cat kids and a couple of seven

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Speaker 3: figure mortgages. So yes, While obviously the specific pressures that

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Speaker 3: I may face at thirty three with two human children

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Speaker 3: may differ, I think that the fundamentals are the same.

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Speaker 3: So many Aussies aren't living within their means, and that

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Speaker 3: might be in many cases, in my opinion, it's it

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Speaker 3: is out of choice. You look at young people buying

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Speaker 3: cars a change. Does a seventeen year old in school

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Speaker 3: actually need a car. It's become a writer passage for

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Speaker 3: many sixteens and seventeens when they get learn a license

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Speaker 3: or their peace. But I don't believe young people need

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Speaker 3: a car. They could put that money towards something far

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Speaker 3: more constructive, to set them up for life. Now at

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Speaker 3: thirty three, I sort of feel that everything you've got

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Speaker 3: to Hopefully you've got a decent job, you've got a

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Speaker 3: decent career. You might be struggling, but I don't think

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Speaker 3: any of the principles would would change. The fundamentals would

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Speaker 3: be the same, because I believe you live within your me.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a car?

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Speaker 3: I don't now, Actually no, I don't have a license, actually, James.

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Speaker 3: So when I was buying my first terms, i'd be

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Speaker 3: taking a bus with my electric skirter and then i'd

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Speaker 3: electric skirt to all the opens. And that's what I've

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Speaker 3: done up until we bought one a couple of months

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Speaker 3: ago and I skirted to the settlement. So I guess

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Speaker 3: it's something that I've done and still do. I guess

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Speaker 3: it's I believe there would be absolutely no difference.

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Speaker 2: There was that Tony Robbins quote.

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Speaker 3: When people are about to die or succeed, they tend

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Speaker 3: they tend to succeed, right, And if you were in

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Speaker 3: that position and you were struggling, it's really a matter

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Speaker 3: of wanting opinion. And I guess I don't say that

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Speaker 3: as someone who's grown up. Yes, I went to a

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Speaker 3: good school and I had two parents that loved me.

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Speaker 3: But my first business at nineteen ran out of money,

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Speaker 3: and we got ourselves out of that with just strong,

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Speaker 3: hard decisions. And I think that would be no different

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Speaker 3: if we were going to do it again.

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Speaker 1: Do you think I just wanted to finish on this taj?

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Speaker 1: But I find I certainly find it very interesting peppering

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Speaker 1: you with these questions. Do you think do you perceive

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Speaker 1: even that your attitude towards risk might decline as you

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Speaker 1: get older? Have you even further happening already?

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Speaker 2: Of course?

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Speaker 3: I think I was far more open to trying different

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Speaker 3: types of things when I was pre mortgage, pre cats,

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Speaker 3: pre partner. That absolutely that's natural.

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Speaker 1: But why why is it natural?

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Speaker 3: Well, look, I think you're conserving you're protecting. I guess

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Speaker 3: what you might have built. When you don't have anything,

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Speaker 3: it's a lot easier to perhaps a risk what's available.

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Speaker 3: And you've actually perhaps built something, or you've got to

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Speaker 3: a certain level, you want to conserve the base. And

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Speaker 3: I think you've thought to do it now, and that's

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Speaker 3: the phase i'men.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, Wouldn't that disposition start to limit you as a

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Speaker 1: business person an entrepreneur as you go forward?

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Speaker 3: Perhaps, But I guess in my business, James, my job

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Speaker 3: is to grow, but make sure that the interests of

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Speaker 3: my investors are protected and make sure that in ten

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Speaker 3: years time this structure is still standing. And I guess

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Speaker 3: in the same way in my own personal personal life. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: of course we all want to grow, but there's got

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Speaker 3: to be some level of a base that that I

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Speaker 3: want to keep in order for me to live the

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Speaker 3: life that I want to live. And I think the

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Speaker 3: same way you grow a business, you risk one hundred

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Speaker 3: percent of the business every single time take a step

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Speaker 3: to grow. I think the same thing would happen, and

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Speaker 3: happens as perhaps you grow older.

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Speaker 1: Okay, very good, all right, we'll be back in a

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Speaker 1: Mormon folks. And we were back talking to Taj about

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Speaker 1: some of his investors. Actually, I want to talk about

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Speaker 1: and I want to talk about how he applies some

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Speaker 1: of the principles that he explains in his book, Young

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Speaker 1: Dumb and Financially Independent to his own life and his

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Speaker 1: business activities. Back in the moment, Hello, welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the Money Puzzle. James Kirby and Taj bah Pari. Here

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Speaker 1: Taj the book Young Dumb and Financially Independent. You've been

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Speaker 1: very fortunate. I've mentioned the title about five times normally

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Speaker 1: when someone's on the show and they have a book.

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Speaker 1: I mentioned it once. I think it's a good title.

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Speaker 1: By the way, tell me it's all about being financially independent,

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Speaker 1: financially smart. Here's the thing. Did you get a good

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Speaker 1: deal with the publisher when you publish that book.

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Speaker 3: Look, we decided to go through that process ourselves, James.

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Speaker 2: I think when we begin this process, we.

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Speaker 3: Realize that you actual you have to be very famous

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Speaker 3: and you have to do something really quite incredible in

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Speaker 3: order to make that pathway with the traditional publisher work.

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Speaker 3: So we decided to go through that ourselves.

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Speaker 2: We ended up with some beautiful.

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Speaker 3: Distribution pathways, and hopefully it's going to be a really

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Speaker 3: great asset for young adults and school students.

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Speaker 1: So you applied your entrepreneurial zeal basically and said, I'm

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Speaker 1: not going into a corporate publisher to get a miserable deal.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to actually do it myself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Look, we've got our publishing arm now in case any

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Speaker 3: of our future employees decided to write their own, their

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Speaker 3: own own little pieces. James are all about life skills,

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Speaker 3: so who knows what the next life skills might be.

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Speaker 3: But absolutely I think it was a pure financial decision.

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Speaker 3: We looked at the numbers on traditional we looked at

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Speaker 3: the numbers going directly, and for us, it's just totally

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Speaker 3: made sense.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I've entertained the listeners before with the fact that

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Speaker 1: I wrote five books. Four of them were a business

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Speaker 1: and one was a history. Then I stopped. I wrote

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Speaker 1: five books in six years, and then I stopped because

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Speaker 1: I realized I'd probably get more per hour, you know,

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Speaker 1: flipping Burger somewhere. But I still get royalty checks. And

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Speaker 1: I got my royalty check this year and I think

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Speaker 1: it was one hundred and forty five dollars.

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Speaker 3: Oh well, congratulations, that's one hundred and forty five dollars

440
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 3: in the right direction.

441
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,200
Speaker 1: Yes, which tells me I should have done what you did.

442
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: All right, very good. Tell us briefly about your link.

443
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 1: Then you're with AC. You explained the business and obviously

444
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,959
Speaker 1: in a way I don't want to call it an

445
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 1: entrepreneurial school, but this an element of that too is

446
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 1: and this element of financial literacy, initiative and agency. There

447
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 1: you have some interesting investors. You had an investor that's

448
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 1: very well known, celebrity investor. Really tell us about that.

449
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,199
Speaker 3: We do so, I guess we're a social enterprise but everything.

450
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 3: We've got some great impact investors. And one of them

451
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 3: is Steve Baxter, who used to be on Shot Tank

452
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 3: and I guess Steve and I'd known each other for

453
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 3: many years. I actually went to his office when I

454
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 3: was fifteen to pitch my first idea to him, and

455
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 3: I wore my dad's suit, and I guess saw him

456
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 3: on a weekend. He made the time on all weekend

457
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 3: and he hated my idea. I think I walked out

458
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 3: of the room in tears, and we ended up just

459
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 3: keeping in touch, and a couple of years ago he

460
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 3: jumped onto this business.

461
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 1: I see, what was the idea he rejected and did

462
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: he like it when you have? Now?

463
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 3: It was teaching kids about digital literacy, which I really

464
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 3: thought was right up his alleys as this tech tycoon,

465
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 3: and we wanted to create twenty first century legos, so

466
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 3: rather than just using like boring plastic bricks, get young

467
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 3: people to actually build a connect the pieces of a

468
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 3: motherboard and the flex cables.

469
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 2: The RAM, CPU, etc. And at the end it would

470
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 2: turn on and be a tablet. I walked out of

471
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 2: that room.

472
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 3: I think we wanted like one hundred thousand dollars of investment,

473
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 3: and he said, if you sell ten thousand of these units,

474
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 3: I'll give you a million dollars in cash. We actually

475
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 3: ended up selling ten thousand of these in pre orders.

476
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 3: We had to refund everyone's orders because of like some

477
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 3: electrical safety, so we actually did sell ten thousand. We

478
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 3: just had to refund everyone, which was unfortunate. But yeah, no,

479
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 3: he ended up taking a liking to the idea of

480
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 3: teaching kids.

481
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: Okay, and he's still involved obviously with you. Is he

482
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 1: like involved in your strategic direction?

483
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's on our advisory board.

484
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: In terms of financial literacy more generally, because that's your passion.

485
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: I know, particularly as it applies to younger people, the

486
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: extra ec STRA, the Foundation, the Financial Foundation. I mean

487
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: it's difficult obviously against the concept of Naplan itself that

488
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 1: the education in Australia is well on international scores, is

489
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: very poor. The financial literacy is even poorer. But the

490
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: Extra have been running some big programs to the schools,

491
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,479
Speaker 1: basically not waiting for the government to pick up and

492
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: get going, and they've been running their own programs through schools,

493
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: quite quite a lot of programs through schools, and it's

494
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 1: an interesting organization. I think they are doing quite well

495
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 1: within that. Is there anything you think that is there

496
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 1: any easy wins that you think have been missed in

497
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 1: financial literacy society?

498
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, James, I think there's lots of one off programs

499
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 3: that currently take place in schools and universities where you

500
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 3: go in for a day or an hour, two hours,

501
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 3: you listen to someone talk about, yeah, you should budget,

502
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 3: you should look at buying a home, or whatever that

503
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 3: presentation might be. But they're very one off, right, They

504
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 3: come in and they leave and everyone goes back to

505
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 3: their day to day habits and it's business as usual.

506
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 3: We sort of feel that there's got to be something

507
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,959
Speaker 3: a bit more long term. There's got to be something

508
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 3: that's got to be just like an English class where

509
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 3: you really get to the nitty gritty of that particular

510
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 3: book called Shakespeare play you're writing on. There's got to

511
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 3: be something more consistent. We sort of feel school is

512
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 3: a great place for that, absolutely, because you're only in

513
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 3: the kids are only in school from nine to three.

514
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 3: University even better barely there. So the best time to

515
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 3: teach these skills is to do it in school.

516
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 1: Do you think it should be a standard on subject

517
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 1: in school life skills?

518
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 3: It should, It should cover that broader life skills life

519
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 3: skills area. Financial literacy is obviously a fundamental, fundamental element

520
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 3: to that, but when we actually think or.

521
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 2: How do we do it?

522
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 3: Encouraging young people to start a business from a young

523
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 3: age is a perfect way to teach financial literacy, regardless

524
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 3: of whether they care about running.

525
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 2: A business or not in the future.

526
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 3: The principle of starting a business forces you to become

527
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 3: a jack of all trades. You have to understand basic

528
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 3: you have to read problem law statements, you've got to

529
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 3: submit your bad statements, even just the basics.

530
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 2: Even if it's not a micro business at a young age.

531
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 3: Will I guess ensure that young people are taught basic

532
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 3: financial literacy and I think that's a great thing.

533
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: I want to ask you two o the things. One

534
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: is about financial literacy. Do you think commercial organizations can

535
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: be trusted with financially. I'm thinking of disappointment in the

536
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: past with banks and investment companies when they claim to

537
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: offer a financial education and that would never end and

538
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: they do it in a very sophisticated manner. Yours is

539
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: a social enterprise, so I wouldn't worry, but I'm talking

540
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 1: about a profit making enterprise. Do you think they can

541
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 1: be trusted with financial Let's just see assignments.

542
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 3: Not directly. No, I think we've got to be extremely careful.

543
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 3: And we've seen some of the effects of one bank

544
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 3: in particular and what they've done to financial literacy in Australia.

545
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,479
Speaker 3: I think we've got to be extremely careful with banks.

546
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 1: Are you talking about the Dollarmites pro program?

547
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 3: Yep, so James in transparency, My parents signed me up

548
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 3: for Dollarmites in school. I got my money box in

549
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 3: the classroom and my first mortgatu was with CBA. So

550
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 3: I guess I was a I guess I've got nothing

551
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 3: against CBA, but that's a perfect example that their financial

552
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 3: literacy program wasn't about financial literacy. It was a marketing

553
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 3: pipeline building program. I firmly believe that, I guess done right.

554
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 3: We've got to be careful, but done right. Banks do

555
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 3: have a place to teach financial literacy to young people.

556
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 3: From a pure education point of view, there's got to

557
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 3: be there's got to be some arm link between their

558
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 3: actual marketing teams. But I think they do have a

559
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 3: path to play in teaching young people because I guess

560
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 3: they've got brand recognition and in schools are screaming for

561
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 3: this sort of stuff. So they've got branches all across

562
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 3: the country. Why not bring them into schools in a open,

563
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 3: transparent way. But doesn't result in them actually signing up

564
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 3: to their bank right there?

565
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 2: Right now?

566
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: Okay, well hope spring's a time now. One nast thing

567
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 1: you mentioned in passing that about investment property and that

568
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: you had several properties. Do you see that as a

569
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: business in itself? People should approach that as a business,

570
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: and it's a.

571
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 2: Look, James, I'm a capitalist.

572
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 3: I do.

573
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 2: I believe it's a great business.

574
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 3: I've taken just like someone might want to sell popcorn

575
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 3: as a side hustle between their jobs. Is my side hustle.

576
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 3: This is my business outside of work. I love my job.

577
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 3: I've got the best job in the world. But my pastime,

578
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 3: the thing that I do for fun is I go

579
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 3: to open homes, I look at property, I check out

580
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 3: the market, and that's what I genuinely do for fun.

581
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 2: So it's a fun business for me.

582
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: And you're not the only one, Taj. We have many

583
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: listeners who are now you've picked up the national pastime

584
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: pretty quick well.

585
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 3: Look and investors have been demonized by many people, many

586
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 3: outspoken people who've got very quick, one sentence slogans that

587
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 3: fit on green colored banners. But I think it's a

588
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 3: great business. It's a great business.

589
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 2: To teach you about the world.

590
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 3: And even leaving aside the financial side, I've met some

591
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 3: great people through that circle. So from a social point

592
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 3: of view, I've built a beautiful network. So it's become

593
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 3: a fun business but also a really great way to

594
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 3: meet interesting, like minded individuals.

595
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: Okay, terrific. We might leave it at that, Taj, thank

596
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: you very much for coming on the show. Taj Pabari

597
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: of the Asee Group folks, you can check him out further.

598
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: You can check out his book, which I've mentioned so often,

599
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: and I'm going to repeat the title again, but if

600
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: you've been listening to the show then you know what

601
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: it is. He published it himself, which is all the

602
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: more impressive. It's probably come a bit easier to do

603
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: that these days. It used to be very difficult. It's

604
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: got a bit easier. But congratulations on it, Taj, And

605
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: thanks very much for coming on the show.

606
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, James, lovely to have you.

607
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: Okay, folks, we will resume normal transmission in next week

608
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: and we will be having correspondence. We'll be doing questions

609
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: and answers again. I'm delighted to say that we just

610
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: had a short break on that. As you know, let's

611
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: have a revival now, if we may. On the questions

612
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: coming in from listeners. The email is the Money Puzzle

613
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,239
Speaker 1: at the Australian dot com dot au. Talk to you

614
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: next week.

615
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 3: Foo,