1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: From The Australian. I'm Claire Harvey. This is an episode 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: of our daily news podcast The Front. Six years after 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: The Teacher's Pet made waves around the world, The Australian's 4 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: National Chief correspondent Hedley Thomas is back with a brand 5 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: new podcast investigation. This time, Headley's delving into the cold 6 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: case of Bronwyn Winfield, a young mum who disappeared from 7 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: an idyllic surf town on the New South Wales North 8 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: Coast more than three decades ago. In today's episode, Hedley 9 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: explains how this story found him and if he thinks 10 00:00:41,520 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: it can be solved. In twenty eighteen, Australian journalism blew 11 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: up with a huge story told in a grouping new way, 12 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: an investigative podcast by The Australian's National Chief correspondent Headley Thomas. 13 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: The Teacher's Pet has had more than eighty million downloads 14 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: around the world and it resulted in the arrest, charge 15 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:28,199 Speaker 1: and murder conviction of its subject, Christopher Michael Dawson. He 16 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: is now appealing. What almost no one knows is that 17 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: at that time another big story was brewing in the background. 18 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: Family members and friends of another missing woman, Bronwyn Winfield 19 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: was struck by the similarities between her case and that 20 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: of Lynnette Simms, whose disappearance heavily investigated in the Teacher's 21 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: pet In those early days, years before Lynn's husband Chris 22 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: Dawson would be brought to justice, Bromwin's loved one reached 23 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: out to Hedley, urging him to look into her nineteen 24 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: ninety one disappearance from Lennox head in the New South 25 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: Wales Northern Rivers region, but Bromwin's name was already on 26 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: Headley's radar. 27 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 2: It was late twenty seventeen Claire I was interviewing the 28 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: former Deputy State Coroner for New South Wales, Karl Milavanovitch, 29 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 2: about the case of Chris Dawson and the allegations that 30 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 2: he'd murdered his wife Lynn all those years ago in 31 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two. And while I was talking to Karl, 32 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 2: he expressed his grave concerns about a number of cases 33 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:42,839 Speaker 2: involving missing women, women who had suddenly disappeared. They had 34 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 2: ties to the community, they had small children. Lynn was 35 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 2: one of those, and he mentioned the case of Bromwin Winfield. 36 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 2: He told me that he had run an inquest into 37 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 2: that case in two thousand and two, and he'd made 38 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:57,399 Speaker 2: a recommendation about it. 39 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: Here's the moment first heard Bromwyn Winfield's name from Karl Milvanovich. 40 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 3: I did an inquest of a lady called Bromwyn Windfield, 41 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 3: and she had two kids as well, and she went 42 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 3: to bed one night, and she disappeared next day. And 43 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 3: there was some suggestion from a neighbor that. 44 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,799 Speaker 2: And I didn't have time then to deal with it, 45 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:28,079 Speaker 2: but I wanted to revisit it at some point, and 46 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 2: I guess for the last six and a half years, 47 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 2: I've been collecting bits and pieces and talking to people 48 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 2: connected to the case, reaching out to Bromwin's family. What 49 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 2: also happened was that as the episodes of the Teacher's 50 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 2: Pet began unfolding from May twenty eighteen, people who were 51 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 2: listening they were reminded of something that had just eaten 52 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,119 Speaker 2: away at them for some time, that there hadn't been 53 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 2: a proper resolution of Bromwin's disappearance, the deeply suspicious circumstances 54 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: surrounding it, and they urged me to get involved in it. 55 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: Today, all the information and evidence headly collected over the 56 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: years has made it out of the folder. He created 57 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: on that day in twenty seventeen and into a new 58 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: podcast investigation for The Australian. It's called Bronwyn and it 59 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: is hauntingly similar to the disappearance of Lynn Dawson. Loving 60 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: young moms, sudden disappearances, families left in the grief and 61 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: shock of ambiguous loss. 62 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 2: Sadly, it's the case that across Australia police forces through 63 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 2: the eighties and nineties, and no doubt earlier, were unwilling 64 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 2: to look at foul play as the probable reason for 65 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:53,239 Speaker 2: the sudden disappearances of loving, dedicated young mums, particularly those 66 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 2: going through a marital breakdown, So when they disappeared, the 67 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 2: paperwork was just filed in the bottom drawer mark missing person, 68 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 2: not given a high priority as a possible homicide. And 69 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 2: this is what Karl Milivanovitch identified in a number of 70 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 2: these missing women cases that he dealt with as a 71 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 2: senior coroner before his retirement. When he flagged that to 72 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 2: me when I met him at his home in late 73 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, it was a bit of a light bulb 74 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 2: moment because you think, gosh, how many other cases are there? 75 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 2: This was a systemic problem. It's no longer the case today. 76 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 2: If a young mum like Bromwin suddenly disappeared at the 77 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 2: same time as she's newly separated from her husband, there 78 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 2: would almost certainly be a very committed police investigation, looking 79 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 2: at all of the unusual circumstances and making sure that 80 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 2: witnesses were soon interviewed. But unbelievably, for the first five 81 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 2: years after Bromwin's disappearance, the police did not even take 82 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 2: a statement from anybody. They spoke to just a couple 83 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 2: of neighbors. They didn't bring anyone down to the police 84 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 2: station to take a formal statement. They didn't properly search 85 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 2: the house or the car. It's hard to believe how 86 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 2: poor the original investigation was. 87 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: Bromwn Winfield was just thirty one years old when she 88 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 1: disappeared from the home built by her husband John. 89 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 2: Bromwyn was to everybody who knew her, an incredibly caring 90 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 2: and devoted young mum. She had two daughters. They were Lauren, 91 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 2: who was five, and Crystal ten. Bromwan was close to 92 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 2: her brother her cousins. She'd had a difficult childhood because 93 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 2: her own mother, when Bromwin was two, had postnatal depression 94 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 2: and she disappeared from her own young children, and very sadly, 95 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 2: when Bromwin herself disappeared, some twenty nine years after her 96 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 2: own mother had disappeared, there was for the police a link. 97 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 2: They thought, well, is she doing what her own mother 98 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 2: had done. The circumstances were very, very different. Bromwyn was 99 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 2: of very sound mind. She had plans, She was making plans, 100 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 2: She had appointments the next day. The kids were going 101 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 2: back to school on the Monday. 102 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: John was Bromwin's second husband and the relationship had been 103 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: strained for some time. 104 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 2: She wanted to leave her husband John, and indeed she did. 105 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 2: She moved into a townhouse that she couldn't really afford, 106 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 2: but she knew she had to get away, only a 107 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 2: short drive from the family home, the home that John 108 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 2: had built. He's a very skilled bricklayer. He could build 109 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 2: houses from scratch and this house was his pride and joy. 110 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 2: She disappeared on the Sunday evening. She had very little money, 111 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 2: She didn't have means to support herself, but she and 112 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 2: her husband were going to be having an argument over 113 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 2: who got the spoils from the marriage. How would that 114 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 2: property settlement unfold? And on the evening she disappeared. Her 115 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 2: husband had left Sydney to fly back. He'd been working 116 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 2: in Sydney building a house, and he became aware that 117 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 2: Bromwin had moved from the rented townhouse with the girls 118 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 2: back into the family home, the home that she had 119 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 2: had to leave when they separated. She was there for 120 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 2: two nights and then on the Sunday, John arrived and 121 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 2: that's the last time anybody ever saw or heard from Bromwin. 122 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, she tucked to her children into bed that night, Headley, 123 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: how do we know that were the children interviewed by police. 124 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 2: Bromwin's eldest daughter did talk to police several years later, 125 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 2: but the children were also in touch with their auntie 126 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 2: and uncle. They spoke to their neighbors and friends. And 127 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 2: it's not disputed by John that the children were in 128 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 2: bed that Sunday night. In fact, John readily acknowledges that 129 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: he was at the house too, and according to some accounts, 130 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:17,079 Speaker 2: he acknowledged that he actually had a disagreement with Bromin 131 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 2: on the Sunday night. But his story is that she 132 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,959 Speaker 2: got into a car after she had made one or 133 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 2: two phone calls from the bedroom, a car turned up. 134 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 2: He doesn't know what sort of car it was. He 135 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 2: said he couldn't see the driver, doesn't know who was 136 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 2: driving it. She got into that vehicle and left. Now, 137 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 2: it was a very unusual thing for her to do, 138 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: to go away for a break. She hadn't told her 139 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 2: friend she was going away for any sort of break. 140 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:50,079 Speaker 2: She left behind pretty much everything, and she had very 141 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 2: little in the way of money. That's why her family 142 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 2: was very concerned immediately. But local police did a very 143 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 2: poor job in the early stages. They really just treated 144 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 2: Bromwin as if she was doing what her mother had done, 145 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 2: that she was a runaway mom, abandoning her family, her 146 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: husband and her kids. Crystal has described having heard raised 147 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 2: voices her parents arguing, and then she must have fallen 148 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 2: asleep because she was woken up along with Lauren, late 149 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 2: at night, probably around ten thirty pm, maybe a little 150 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 2: bit earlier. John left the house with his daughters and 151 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 2: drove through the night to Sydney, arriving the next morning. 152 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 2: The children were duet school on the Monday. It was 153 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 2: in school holidays, and they ended up staying in Sydney 154 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 2: for ten or eleven days. And then John, at the 155 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 2: urging of Bromwan's brother drove back up to Lennox and 156 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 2: did report Bromwyn missing to police. 157 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 1: Coming up, why it's taken so long for Bromwyn Winfield's 158 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 1: case to be taken seriously? The podcast Bronwyn is available 159 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: now at bronwynpodcast dot com. That's b ro Nwyn podcast 160 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: dot com. Subscribers to The Australian are the first to 161 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: hear episodes of Headly Thomas's brand new investigative podcast series. 162 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: Plus they get breaking news alerts direct to their phones, 163 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: all our lively commentary and access to special events. Check 164 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: us out at The Australian dot com dot au and 165 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: we'll be back after this break. There were eleven days 166 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: between Bronwyn Winfield was last seen and the time her 167 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: husband John reported her missing to police. On his account, 168 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: Bronwyn had said she was going away for a few 169 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 1: days to take some time for herself. So why the delay? 170 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 2: I think that's a very good question, Claire, And as 171 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 2: best I can understand from talking to Bromwin's family and friends, 172 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 2: they were waiting for John to make that move and 173 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 2: they were urging him to do so for some time. Andy, 174 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 2: who is Broman's brother, he had told John that if 175 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 2: he didn't report Broman missing to the police. Andy would. 176 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 2: A woman called Deb Hall, who was Bromin's very good 177 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 2: friend and nearest neighbor. She told me that she said 178 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 2: was the same effect. She was very, very concerned about 179 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 2: Bromwin and what had happened. She knew how devoted Bromin 180 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 2: was as a mum, the plans that Bromwin had made. 181 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 2: She was happy to be back in her house. She 182 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: had flagged no plan or intention to leave the house, 183 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 2: and Deb couldn't see when Deb went through the house 184 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 2: that Broman had actually anything with her except for her handbag, 185 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 2: which wasn't there. 186 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: In two thousand and two, the former Deputy State Coroner 187 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: Karl Milvanovitch, who you heard about at the top of 188 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 1: his episode, found Bronwyn Winfield was dead. He recommended to 189 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,199 Speaker 1: the New South Wales Director of Public Prosecutions that John 190 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: Winfield be charged with her murder. Nicholas Cowdery, who was 191 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: the DPP, then didn't pursue it. He said there was 192 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: no evidence John had killed Bronwyn or played any role 193 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: in her death. It's a decision that's baffled Bronwin's loved 194 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 1: ones for decades. This is a feature of the justice 195 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: system that I think some people might not know so 196 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: much about. Can you explain Headley, how it can be 197 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: that a coroner can make a recommendation about a case 198 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: like this that doesn't turn into a prosecution. 199 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 2: I think that there's such a mismatch between what happens 200 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 2: when a coroner runs an inquest involving sometimes many days, 201 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,679 Speaker 2: sometimes a week of public hearings with witnesses appearing and 202 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 2: giving evidence under oath, and then the coroner, who's often 203 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 2: an experienced senior magistrate, makes certain findings and recommendations, and 204 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 2: then there's this behind closed door paperwork review by unknown 205 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 2: lawyers in the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. 206 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 2: They review the recommendation, and presumably they go through the evidence. 207 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 2: Often the police brief is very extensive. But how much 208 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 2: of the evidence do they go through? Do they read 209 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 2: all the transcripts and witness statements. Are they at a 210 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 2: sufficiently senior level to really appreciate what the senior coroner 211 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:55,359 Speaker 2: has appreciated. We don't know, because that process is very opaque. 212 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: You reached out to John Winfield. What did he say? 213 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 2: John Winfield got back to me and he acknowledged the 214 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 2: letter that I had written to him seeking his side 215 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 2: of the story. He said that he had previously answered 216 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 2: something like four hundred and fifteen questions from a homicide 217 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 2: squad detective and he stood by all the answers he 218 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 2: gave to those, and we'll unpack those in several episodes 219 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 2: of the podcast series. He said also, and I think 220 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 2: this is very interesting because it's a reflection of some 221 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 2: of the things that have been said over the years 222 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 2: by him about Bromwin. That her side of the family 223 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 2: has a long generational history of mental illness, on the 224 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 2: male and female side. That's how he put it. Now, 225 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 2: I've talked to Bromwyn's good friends in Lennox Head, I've 226 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 2: talked to family members. The police have obviously talked to 227 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 2: many people because when the police did do a very 228 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 2: thorough investigation starting in nineteen ninety eight, many dozens of 229 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 2: statements were taken by Detective side Glenn Taylor, and in 230 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 2: none of those interviews or statements does anyone say Bromwin 231 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 2: was showing signs of mental illness. It just doesn't register. 232 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 2: Bromen was a very capable, intelligent, motivated young mum. It 233 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 2: seems that having separated from John, she knew what she 234 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 2: wanted to do. She just wanted to start again with 235 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 2: her two girls, but without John, and the next stage 236 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 2: in that process was working out what she would walk 237 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 2: away with, what portion of the house and all the 238 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 2: assets that they had jointly strived to achieve together she 239 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 2: would be able to have to start again. 240 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: What's your instinct, Headley, Is this case solvable? 241 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 3: Well? 242 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 2: I think all these cases are potentially solvable. It would 243 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 2: only take some fresh new information that is really probative 244 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 2: that somebody has not disclosed, has for whatever reason, decided 245 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 2: to keep to themselves for many years. If somebody comes 246 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 2: forward with that to the police directly to me, then 247 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 2: if it's corroborated and checked out, that can make a difference. 248 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 2: It could show that somebody else, somebody other than John Winfield, 249 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 2: was responsible. For example, I mean, we don't know what 250 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 2: happened on that Sunday night. John's story is she got 251 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 2: into a car driven by a stranger, and that's that. 252 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 2: Who knows. Maybe somebody has some information about that, Maybe 253 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 2: they have information about something else that John hasn't told us, 254 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 2: But of course they can be solved. Bromwyn disappeared nine 255 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 2: years after Lynn disappeared. People believe that Lynn's case could 256 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 2: never be solved, and it was. 257 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: There is an important difference in the stories of Lynn 258 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: Sims and Bromwyn Winfield. John Winfield has never been charged 259 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 1: and there's no suggestion that he's anything like Chris Dawson. 260 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: But the similarities between Lynn and Bromwyn are inescapable, loving, 261 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: coctive mothers whose children were robbed of their right to 262 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: a safe, secure maternal bond. 263 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 2: I think we need to be very careful to not 264 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,959 Speaker 2: conflate them or see them as being cut from the 265 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 2: same cloth. John Winfield has always emphatically denied any involvement 266 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 2: in foul play. He certainly has never been charged with anything. 267 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 2: The coroner recommended to the then DPP Nicholas Cowdery that 268 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 2: he should be charged and considered for prosecution over Bromwin's 269 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 2: suspected murder, but in the DPP's assessment back in two 270 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 2: thousand and three, there was insufficient evidence. Of course, there's 271 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:47,439 Speaker 2: nobody and some might argue that Bronwin has been living 272 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 2: a life somehow incognito, having never been seen. In my opinion, 273 00:18:54,640 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 2: that is just completely implausible. Bromwin's almost certainly dead. What 274 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 2: we don't know is when she died and how she died. 275 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 2: But the idea that a very committed mum of thirty 276 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 2: one years old could spend the next thirty one years 277 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 2: somehow eking out a life, remaining unnoticed, being able to 278 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 2: support herself, and never contact two little girls with whom 279 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 2: she had a very beautiful and loving relationship is just 280 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 2: ridiculous in my view. 281 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 1: Betly Thomas is The Australian's national Chief correspondent and the 282 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: creator of our new investigative podcast series, Bronwyn. Subscribers to 283 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: The Australian are the first to hear it. You can 284 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: register to listen to the first two episodes now at 285 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 1: bromwan podcast dot com. We've also got exclusive stories, maps, timelines, 286 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: graphics and video and for all Australia's best journalism twenty 287 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: four seven go to The Australian dot com dot AU. 288 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on the front this week. Our 289 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: team is Kristin Amiot, Leat Sammaglu, Josh Burton, Jasper Leigue, 290 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: Tiffany Dimack, Matthew Condon and me Claire Harvey.