WEBVTT - Is this a dead minister walking?

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<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Thursday, May THIRTI inflation has jumped for a second time,

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<v Speaker 1>climbing to two point six percent in April. The unexpected

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<v Speaker 1>rebound has experts worried about the government's budget spending spree

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<v Speaker 1>and it means no interest rate cut for a while.

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<v Speaker 2>Yet.

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<v Speaker 1>A phone has been found in the search for missing

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<v Speaker 1>Ballarat mum Samantha Murphy. She disappeared after going for a

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<v Speaker 1>jog and a huge search by Victoria police has turned

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<v Speaker 1>up a mobile phone in a dam close to where

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<v Speaker 1>Miss Murphy's phone was last detected. You can read that

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<v Speaker 1>developing story right now at the Australian dot com. U

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<v Speaker 1>The government will ditch a policy that was allowing violent

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<v Speaker 1>criminals to remain in the country even after their visas

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<v Speaker 1>were canceled. So will the minister responsible be sacked?

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<v Speaker 3>Stay with us, booted by Border Force, marched to a plaque.

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<v Speaker 3>Thirty Kiwi criminals are today back in New Zealand, deported

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<v Speaker 3>after their visas were canceled.

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<v Speaker 4>So there's some certain parts of Australia's law which are ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 4>This is Australia exporting its garbage to New Zealand.

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<v Speaker 1>Nothing enrages New Zealanders like Australia. From this side of

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<v Speaker 1>the Tasman, we tend to regard New Zealand with benign goodwill.

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<v Speaker 1>It's so pretty, we love skiing in Queenstown. Everyone's so friendly.

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<v Speaker 1>I spent five years living in New Zealand and quickly

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<v Speaker 1>realized that to many Kiwis, that attitude of goodwill comes

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<v Speaker 1>across as just patronizing, arrogant, self centered, all the qualities

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<v Speaker 1>they dislike most about Australia. But Australia's prosperity are golden

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<v Speaker 1>weather and are higher wages mean we attract New Zealand

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<v Speaker 1>migrants in their tens of thousands. They don't need to

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<v Speaker 1>apply for visas, and they don't need citizenship to access

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<v Speaker 1>Medicare and other entitlements. But former New Zealand Prime Minister

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<v Speaker 1>Jacinda Adern had a huge gripe with one Australian policy

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<v Speaker 1>in particular.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, I've I've been absolutely clear this is corrosive to

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<v Speaker 2>our relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>Starting with the Morrison government, Australia started deporting foreign born

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<v Speaker 1>criminals if they didn't have Australian citizenship. The idea was

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<v Speaker 1>if you're not a citizen and you commit a crime,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't get to stay. But when Australia started sending

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<v Speaker 1>Keiwi criminals home, ar Dern and the New Zealand Labor

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<v Speaker 1>Party turned the issue into a vote winner.

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<v Speaker 2>Countless who have no home in New Zealand, they have

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<v Speaker 2>no nitwork, they have grown up and Australia that is

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<v Speaker 2>their home and that is where they should stay.

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<v Speaker 1>Ardern unsuccessfully lobbied Morrison to change the law.

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<v Speaker 4>That's what the Australian policy is, and that policy is

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<v Speaker 4>framed in Australia's national interest.

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<v Speaker 1>But it was Anthony Albanesi's government in twenty twenty three

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<v Speaker 1>which agreed to change the policy for all foreign citizens,

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<v Speaker 1>not just New Zealanders. Now the issue has turned into

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<v Speaker 1>a political nightmare here in Australia.

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<v Speaker 4>Was responsible and sixty four child in posing those questions.

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<v Speaker 4>It's unparliamentary and it's dog.

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<v Speaker 1>Listen because the Australian has revealed that new directive has

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<v Speaker 1>allowed dozens of violent criminals, including rapists, domestic violence perpetrators

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<v Speaker 1>and child abusers to stay in Australia.

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<v Speaker 4>One woman was bashed so hard there eyelids were cut

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<v Speaker 4>open and terrible crimes against children.

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<v Speaker 1>Dennis Shanahan is The Australian's National editor.

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<v Speaker 4>This is the hard, terrible truth and the government has

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<v Speaker 4>had to face this, and of course once the public

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<v Speaker 4>became aware of this, it has become a much greater

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<v Speaker 4>issue and Labor overall over the last few months has

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<v Speaker 4>suffered a big four in standing in the public eye

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<v Speaker 4>on its ability to handle crime, law and order and

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<v Speaker 4>border protection. This has become a real hot button issue

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<v Speaker 4>for the government.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's how it went so wrong. Immigration Minister Andrew Giles,

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<v Speaker 1>in response to New Zealand's advocacy, issued something called Direction

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<v Speaker 1>ninety nine, a new guideline for the tribunal that considers

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<v Speaker 1>VISA situations the Administrative Appeals Tribunal Direction ninety nine. There's

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<v Speaker 1>the coibunal must consider the depth and duration of the

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<v Speaker 1>offender's connection to Australia as one of the factors when

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<v Speaker 1>making its decision. Giles says he intended this to be

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<v Speaker 1>balanced with other factors like the seriousness of the offending.

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<v Speaker 1>Problem is the AAT in some cases has made decisions

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<v Speaker 1>based mainly on the connection to Australia part and that

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<v Speaker 1>seen some serious offenders allowed to stay. The Australian's journo

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<v Speaker 1>Paul Garvey has revealed this week the government released this

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<v Speaker 1>policy on International Women's Day to show it was taking

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<v Speaker 1>violence against women seriously. Because Direction ninety nine also contained

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<v Speaker 1>a new rule that if an offender had committed family violence,

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<v Speaker 1>including stalking, coercive control, sexual assault or financial abuse, that

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<v Speaker 1>should weigh against their visa application.

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<v Speaker 4>It didn't work to protect women, it didn't work to

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<v Speaker 4>get rid of perpetrators of violence against women, and it

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<v Speaker 4>actually helped them stay. And what's more, we know from

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<v Speaker 4>estimates committees that the Department of Immigration warned that this

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<v Speaker 4>direction would make it easier for people who had committed

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<v Speaker 4>offenses non citizens to remain in Australia, or get renewed

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<v Speaker 4>visas or not be deported. This has been going on

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<v Speaker 4>close to eighteen months.

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<v Speaker 1>What's your assessment of Andrew Giles, the Minister.

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<v Speaker 4>I think he has been inept from the beginning. He

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<v Speaker 4>has tried to duck and weave. This is evidence of

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<v Speaker 4>his attempting, or his general reluctance to be hard on

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<v Speaker 4>people who are asylum seekers or seeking refuge or seeking

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<v Speaker 4>to stay in Australia. This is part and parcel of

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<v Speaker 4>his long history as a lawyer. He has set himself

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<v Speaker 4>in parliament. Oh, my department didn't tell me about important decisions,

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<v Speaker 4>and somehow he's not responsible. Oh, it's an independent tribunal,

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<v Speaker 4>an independent tribunal acting on the actual directive. He told

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<v Speaker 4>them you have to do this, And of course in

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<v Speaker 4>the end it's all Peter Dutton's fault. And this has

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<v Speaker 4>been the problem for Andrew Giles as Immigration Minister. He

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<v Speaker 4>will not take responsibility.

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<v Speaker 1>Will he have to be sacked?

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<v Speaker 4>Well he should be.

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<v Speaker 1>On Wednesday, the government crumbled and dumped Direction ninety nine,

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<v Speaker 1>blaming the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, which was already planning to

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<v Speaker 1>replace with a different body.

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<v Speaker 3>The new directive will ensure that the protection the committee

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<v Speaker 3>out of ways. Anyhow, there's a sist well cease.

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<v Speaker 4>This is what we were told it did all along.

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<v Speaker 4>So it is a complete concession of failure. It is

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<v Speaker 4>more evidence, even more evidence that Giles should go. Ultimately,

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<v Speaker 4>the Prime Minister will have to do something about Giles himself,

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<v Speaker 4>not just his directive, and by then the damage will

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<v Speaker 4>be even worse for the Labor government.

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<v Speaker 1>So whose fault is this? And now what that's after

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<v Speaker 1>the break. The Australian subscribers get all our journalism and

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<v Speaker 1>analysis around the clock for a lot less than a

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<v Speaker 1>cup of coffee a day. We'd love you to join

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<v Speaker 1>us by subscribing at the Australian dot com dot We'll

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<v Speaker 1>be back after this break. Losing a minister is something

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<v Speaker 1>no prime minister wants to do, especially not when you're

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<v Speaker 1>heading for an election and you've bragged about not having

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<v Speaker 1>to lose any ministers.

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<v Speaker 4>On the second end of the nursery of his election,

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<v Speaker 4>he continued to make the point and he put it

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<v Speaker 4>up as a highlight that he had never had to

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<v Speaker 4>sack a minister in his first two years. He has

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<v Speaker 4>sent this benchmark. Now, if he has to sack a

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<v Speaker 4>minister in two years and a week after, that's going

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<v Speaker 4>to look pretty thin. He can shift him, but if

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<v Speaker 4>he shifts him, he's got to have a reshuffle, and

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<v Speaker 4>he doesn't particularly want to do that. So Labor is

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<v Speaker 4>left with the problem of having an inept minister in

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<v Speaker 4>a position he can't handle, and he will continue to

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<v Speaker 4>make mistakes.

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<v Speaker 1>Giles already had a migration problem on his hands. The

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<v Speaker 1>scores of stateless detainees released by the High Court which

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<v Speaker 1>said they couldn't be held in custody indefinitely. Some had

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<v Speaker 1>been convicted of serious crimes. Since their release, some have

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<v Speaker 1>allegedly committed more violent offenses. Labor has made serious mistakes

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<v Speaker 1>over immigration and border policy now over two decades. Dinners,

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<v Speaker 1>what's going on here?

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<v Speaker 4>Well? I think part of it is because of their

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<v Speaker 4>ideological position, a sympathy with asylum seekers and refugees, which

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<v Speaker 4>is fair enough, but their position is such that it

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<v Speaker 4>flavors the decisions that they make. Remember Kevin Rudd was

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<v Speaker 4>elected in two thousand and seven after giving an interview

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<v Speaker 4>with me and Paul Kelly in which he said he

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<v Speaker 4>would turn back boats and he didn't. That was a

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<v Speaker 4>big failure. Then they changed temperate protection visas. Then they

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<v Speaker 4>ended up then with even more people coming, tens of

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<v Speaker 4>thousands of people, including more than a thousand who drowned

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<v Speaker 4>at sea. They do not grasp what having a tough

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<v Speaker 4>border protection actually means, not just to Australians but to

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<v Speaker 4>the people trying to get here. For some its life

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<v Speaker 4>and death. They do not appreciate this Ideologically, they can't

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<v Speaker 4>accept it, and they try to kid themselves that they

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<v Speaker 4>can trick people like Kevin Rudd saying oh yes, I'll

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<v Speaker 4>turn back boats, and then he doesn't like the current

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<v Speaker 4>government saying oh yes, we'll have these tough directives and

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<v Speaker 4>so on. And we've also seen, of course, in the

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<v Speaker 4>last few months, the return of people smugglers landing people

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<v Speaker 4>on the North coast of Australia. Now it is as

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<v Speaker 4>if labor can't help itself, and the polling is showing

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<v Speaker 4>that not just crime but border protection is coming up

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<v Speaker 4>as far as a major concern amongst the public. Cost

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<v Speaker 4>of living still the big game, that'll be the big

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<v Speaker 4>issue through to the next election. But border protection, crime, detainees,

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<v Speaker 4>labor still can't do enough quickly enough to deal with it.

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<v Speaker 1>Dennis Shanahan is The Australian's National editor. Thanks for joining

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<v Speaker 1>us on the front and don't forget to check out

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<v Speaker 1>our newest investigative podcast, Bronwyn, reported by Headley Thomas. Check

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<v Speaker 1>it out now at bronwynpodcast dot com. That's b r

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