1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: It's Thursday, May THIRTI inflation has jumped for a second time, 3 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: climbing to two point six percent in April. The unexpected 4 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: rebound has experts worried about the government's budget spending spree 5 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: and it means no interest rate cut for a while. 6 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 2: Yet. 7 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: A phone has been found in the search for missing 8 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: Ballarat mum Samantha Murphy. She disappeared after going for a 9 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: jog and a huge search by Victoria police has turned 10 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: up a mobile phone in a dam close to where 11 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: Miss Murphy's phone was last detected. You can read that 12 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: developing story right now at the Australian dot com. U 13 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: The government will ditch a policy that was allowing violent 14 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: criminals to remain in the country even after their visas 15 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: were canceled. So will the minister responsible be sacked? 16 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 3: Stay with us, booted by Border Force, marched to a plaque. 17 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 3: Thirty Kiwi criminals are today back in New Zealand, deported 18 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 3: after their visas were canceled. 19 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 4: So there's some certain parts of Australia's law which are ridiculous. 20 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 4: This is Australia exporting its garbage to New Zealand. 21 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: Nothing enrages New Zealanders like Australia. From this side of 22 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: the Tasman, we tend to regard New Zealand with benign goodwill. 23 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: It's so pretty, we love skiing in Queenstown. Everyone's so friendly. 24 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: I spent five years living in New Zealand and quickly 25 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: realized that to many Kiwis, that attitude of goodwill comes 26 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: across as just patronizing, arrogant, self centered, all the qualities 27 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: they dislike most about Australia. But Australia's prosperity are golden 28 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: weather and are higher wages mean we attract New Zealand 29 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: migrants in their tens of thousands. They don't need to 30 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: apply for visas, and they don't need citizenship to access 31 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 1: Medicare and other entitlements. But former New Zealand Prime Minister 32 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: Jacinda Adern had a huge gripe with one Australian policy 33 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: in particular. 34 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 2: Look, I've I've been absolutely clear this is corrosive to 35 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:31,839 Speaker 2: our relationship. 36 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: Starting with the Morrison government, Australia started deporting foreign born 37 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: criminals if they didn't have Australian citizenship. The idea was 38 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: if you're not a citizen and you commit a crime, 39 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: you don't get to stay. But when Australia started sending 40 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: Keiwi criminals home, ar Dern and the New Zealand Labor 41 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,519 Speaker 1: Party turned the issue into a vote winner. 42 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: Countless who have no home in New Zealand, they have 43 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 2: no nitwork, they have grown up and Australia that is 44 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: their home and that is where they should stay. 45 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: Ardern unsuccessfully lobbied Morrison to change the law. 46 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 4: That's what the Australian policy is, and that policy is 47 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 4: framed in Australia's national interest. 48 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: But it was Anthony Albanesi's government in twenty twenty three 49 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: which agreed to change the policy for all foreign citizens, 50 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:27,119 Speaker 1: not just New Zealanders. Now the issue has turned into 51 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: a political nightmare here in Australia. 52 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 4: Was responsible and sixty four child in posing those questions. 53 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 4: It's unparliamentary and it's dog. 54 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: Listen because the Australian has revealed that new directive has 55 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: allowed dozens of violent criminals, including rapists, domestic violence perpetrators 56 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: and child abusers to stay in Australia. 57 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 4: One woman was bashed so hard there eyelids were cut 58 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 4: open and terrible crimes against children. 59 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: Dennis Shanahan is The Australian's National editor. 60 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 4: This is the hard, terrible truth and the government has 61 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 4: had to face this, and of course once the public 62 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 4: became aware of this, it has become a much greater 63 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 4: issue and Labor overall over the last few months has 64 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 4: suffered a big four in standing in the public eye 65 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 4: on its ability to handle crime, law and order and 66 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 4: border protection. This has become a real hot button issue 67 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 4: for the government. 68 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: Here's how it went so wrong. Immigration Minister Andrew Giles, 69 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: in response to New Zealand's advocacy, issued something called Direction 70 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: ninety nine, a new guideline for the tribunal that considers 71 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: VISA situations the Administrative Appeals Tribunal Direction ninety nine. There's 72 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 1: the coibunal must consider the depth and duration of the 73 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: offender's connection to Australia as one of the factors when 74 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: making its decision. Giles says he intended this to be 75 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: balanced with other factors like the seriousness of the offending. 76 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: Problem is the AAT in some cases has made decisions 77 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: based mainly on the connection to Australia part and that 78 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: seen some serious offenders allowed to stay. The Australian's journo 79 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: Paul Garvey has revealed this week the government released this 80 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: policy on International Women's Day to show it was taking 81 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: violence against women seriously. Because Direction ninety nine also contained 82 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: a new rule that if an offender had committed family violence, 83 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: including stalking, coercive control, sexual assault or financial abuse, that 84 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: should weigh against their visa application. 85 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 4: It didn't work to protect women, it didn't work to 86 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 4: get rid of perpetrators of violence against women, and it 87 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 4: actually helped them stay. And what's more, we know from 88 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 4: estimates committees that the Department of Immigration warned that this 89 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 4: direction would make it easier for people who had committed 90 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 4: offenses non citizens to remain in Australia, or get renewed 91 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 4: visas or not be deported. This has been going on 92 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 4: close to eighteen months. 93 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: What's your assessment of Andrew Giles, the Minister. 94 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 4: I think he has been inept from the beginning. He 95 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 4: has tried to duck and weave. This is evidence of 96 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 4: his attempting, or his general reluctance to be hard on 97 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 4: people who are asylum seekers or seeking refuge or seeking 98 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 4: to stay in Australia. This is part and parcel of 99 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 4: his long history as a lawyer. He has set himself 100 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 4: in parliament. Oh, my department didn't tell me about important decisions, 101 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 4: and somehow he's not responsible. Oh, it's an independent tribunal, 102 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 4: an independent tribunal acting on the actual directive. He told 103 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 4: them you have to do this, And of course in 104 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 4: the end it's all Peter Dutton's fault. And this has 105 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 4: been the problem for Andrew Giles as Immigration Minister. He 106 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 4: will not take responsibility. 107 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: Will he have to be sacked? 108 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 4: Well he should be. 109 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: On Wednesday, the government crumbled and dumped Direction ninety nine, 110 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: blaming the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, which was already planning to 111 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: replace with a different body. 112 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 3: The new directive will ensure that the protection the committee 113 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 3: out of ways. Anyhow, there's a sist well cease. 114 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 4: This is what we were told it did all along. 115 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 4: So it is a complete concession of failure. It is 116 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 4: more evidence, even more evidence that Giles should go. Ultimately, 117 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 4: the Prime Minister will have to do something about Giles himself, 118 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 4: not just his directive, and by then the damage will 119 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 4: be even worse for the Labor government. 120 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: So whose fault is this? And now what that's after 121 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: the break. The Australian subscribers get all our journalism and 122 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: analysis around the clock for a lot less than a 123 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: cup of coffee a day. We'd love you to join 124 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: us by subscribing at the Australian dot com dot We'll 125 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: be back after this break. Losing a minister is something 126 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: no prime minister wants to do, especially not when you're 127 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: heading for an election and you've bragged about not having 128 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: to lose any ministers. 129 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:00,839 Speaker 4: On the second end of the nursery of his election, 130 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 4: he continued to make the point and he put it 131 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 4: up as a highlight that he had never had to 132 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 4: sack a minister in his first two years. He has 133 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 4: sent this benchmark. Now, if he has to sack a 134 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 4: minister in two years and a week after, that's going 135 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 4: to look pretty thin. He can shift him, but if 136 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,719 Speaker 4: he shifts him, he's got to have a reshuffle, and 137 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,719 Speaker 4: he doesn't particularly want to do that. So Labor is 138 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 4: left with the problem of having an inept minister in 139 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 4: a position he can't handle, and he will continue to 140 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 4: make mistakes. 141 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: Giles already had a migration problem on his hands. The 142 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: scores of stateless detainees released by the High Court which 143 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: said they couldn't be held in custody indefinitely. Some had 144 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: been convicted of serious crimes. Since their release, some have 145 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: allegedly committed more violent offenses. Labor has made serious mistakes 146 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: over immigration and border policy now over two decades. Dinners, 147 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: what's going on here? 148 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 4: Well? I think part of it is because of their 149 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 4: ideological position, a sympathy with asylum seekers and refugees, which 150 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 4: is fair enough, but their position is such that it 151 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 4: flavors the decisions that they make. Remember Kevin Rudd was 152 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 4: elected in two thousand and seven after giving an interview 153 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 4: with me and Paul Kelly in which he said he 154 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 4: would turn back boats and he didn't. That was a 155 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 4: big failure. Then they changed temperate protection visas. Then they 156 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 4: ended up then with even more people coming, tens of 157 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 4: thousands of people, including more than a thousand who drowned 158 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 4: at sea. They do not grasp what having a tough 159 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:54,719 Speaker 4: border protection actually means, not just to Australians but to 160 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 4: the people trying to get here. For some its life 161 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 4: and death. They do not appreciate this Ideologically, they can't 162 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 4: accept it, and they try to kid themselves that they 163 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 4: can trick people like Kevin Rudd saying oh yes, I'll 164 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 4: turn back boats, and then he doesn't like the current 165 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 4: government saying oh yes, we'll have these tough directives and 166 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 4: so on. And we've also seen, of course, in the 167 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 4: last few months, the return of people smugglers landing people 168 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 4: on the North coast of Australia. Now it is as 169 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 4: if labor can't help itself, and the polling is showing 170 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 4: that not just crime but border protection is coming up 171 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 4: as far as a major concern amongst the public. Cost 172 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 4: of living still the big game, that'll be the big 173 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:50,959 Speaker 4: issue through to the next election. But border protection, crime, detainees, 174 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 4: labor still can't do enough quickly enough to deal with it. 175 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: Dennis Shanahan is The Australian's National editor. Thanks for joining 176 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,079 Speaker 1: us on the front and don't forget to check out 177 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: our newest investigative podcast, Bronwyn, reported by Headley Thomas. Check 178 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: it out now at bronwynpodcast dot com. That's b r 179 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:23,239 Speaker 1: o Nwyn podcast dot com and you can hear episodes 180 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: one and two for free