WEBVTT - When your child causes the unthinkable: Melissa & Peter McGuinness Pt.1 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:04.880 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.039 Detective see aside of life the average person is never 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:11.080 exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.040 For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.200 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.560 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.120 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.400 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.760 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.440 and honest, just like the people I talked to. Some 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.640 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:36.640 no one who comes in the contact with crime is 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:39.840 left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:49.200 this world. Today, I had a sad yet inspiring conversation 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.280 with Melissa and Peter McGinnis. We talked about the death 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:54.760 of their eighteen year old son, Jordan, who died in 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:58.000 the horrific car crash in twenty twelve. It was a 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:01.080 crash that could have been avoided. Other young lives were 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:03.720 lost in the crash. Now, death on their roads, unless 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:06.319 it impacts on you personally, is often just passed off. 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:09.959 As road statistics, but for those close to the people killed, 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:14.160 it's life destroying. It's hard to imagine the pain of 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:17.759 losing your child in those circumstances. I speak to Melissa 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:20.640 and Peter about that, But there is also another complex 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:23.399 layer to what happened to them. See, their son, Jordan, 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:26.039 was driving a vehicle that crashed into a parked car 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:30.520 containing the four victims. Jordan was almost three times over 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:33.880 the legal limit, traveling well over the speed limit, and 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:37.880 had lost his license just days before. As I've said, 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:40.679 it was something that could have been avoided. Today, I 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:43.720 had a deeply personal conversation with Melissa and Peter about 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:49.320 all the emotions they've had to process that include shame, anger, sadness, 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:52.880 and regret. We talked about the guilt they felt and 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:55.880 coming to terms with the fact their son's actions destroyed 0:01:55.920 --> 0:02:00.640 so many lives. There are some important, thought provoking messages 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.280 in this conversation. Have a listened to what they have 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.280 to say, it blew me away, and I think you 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:09.960 might feel the same way. Melissa and Peter McGinnis, thanks 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:12.120 very much for coming on Eye Catch Killers. 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:13.280 Thank you very much. 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:14.839 Thank you for having us Gary. Thanks mate. 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:18.040 Yeah, well, I thought long and hard about how to 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:22.320 have this conversation because it's a difficult conversation. But one 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:26.560 thing that really comes out to me researching and finding 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:29.280 out what's happened and also having conversations with you before 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:34.280 the podcast, is that so much is encapsulated in choices 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:36.840 we make in life, isn't it, And one choice can 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:40.560 just have devastating effects. What's your thoughts on that? With 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:44.520 your son Jordan the bad choice and look what's happened. 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:48.320 Do you often reflect on the consequences of choices we make? 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.480 Well, it's very much shaped our lives, hasn't it myself 0:02:53.760 --> 0:03:00.400 the last nearly thirteen years now and certainly closer to 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:02.760 the time of the crash that Jordan caused and the 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:05.680 tragedy you know, where we're sort of fixated on this 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:09.799 idea of like one one choice on one thing can 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:13.200 lead to all of this impact, you know, particularly for 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:14.720 the the for. 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.480 His victims, his victims families, which. 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:22.079 You know, really keeps us going, you know, making sure 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:24.200 that this kind of thing doesn't happen again to the 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:28.520 extent that we can. But we've learned that, you know, 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.120 that idea of one choice, Yes, it was one choice, 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:33.480 a number of choices that Jordan made on that night. 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:37.839 But it's also really it's been revealed to us through 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:40.120 the work that we do with so many teens around 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:41.920 the country, that often these things are. 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:43.040 A series of choices. 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:46.960 These choices are made in a social ecosystem, or there's 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:52.720 patterns of decision making or recklessness that developed that sometimes 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:54.400 you just can't see as a parent, and sometimes you 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:57.000 just can't see yourself or inside your circle of friends. 0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:59.320 So long answer to a short question, Yeah, we do 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:04.840 reflect on it. But you know what we've concluded, haven't we, Melissa, 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:07.280 is that it's just so often more than just that 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:08.160 one choice. 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:10.560 Well, I want to and we're going to deal very 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:14.280 deeply through the course of the podcast into the education 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:17.799 and the messaging that you're getting out from what happened 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:22.520 with the situation of Jordan's choices and the tragedy that 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:29.240 unfolded following on from those choices. And I think if anything, 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:33.240 that the messages that come out the people that have 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:36.039 been through what you've been through, and the victims and 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:38.600 the families of the people killed and the crash that 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:44.240 Jordan was driving, there's consequences for actions. 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:49.880 Isn't it It's interesting because the whole last thirteen years 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:53.400 since Jordan's crash, all of it has come down to 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:57.560 Jordan's choice. Everything that we've done from that day, from 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:01.000 that day to this day, has been around the choices 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:04.800 that Jordan made that night. So it's it can't be 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:10.640 underestimated what choice means, what one decision. Jordan made a 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:14.520 lot of stupid choices that night, and look at what happened, 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:17.200 look at the amount of families that were devastated. And 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:19.600 we think this all the time, don't we that we 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:23.039 will never seek sympathy for ourselves. People often share sympathy 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:26.359 with us, and we think the sympathy is reserved solely 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:29.400 for Jordan's victims and Jordan's victims families because of the 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.240 choices Jordan made, And he would never have intended to 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:35.680 harm anyone that night, the family that he loved the most, 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:37.640 let alone his victims and his victims families. 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:44.159 Yet through his choice, it saddens me and I get 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:47.200 the sense of all the times that you've spoken publicly 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.040 and that that you don't allow yourself to have sympathy 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.960 for yourself. I'm sitting here saying to you, I've seen 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:56.040 a lot of tragedy in life from people's actions and that, 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:01.200 But be kind to yourself too. You're a victim of 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:05.000 Jordan's choices as much as much as the other people are. 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:06.400 So I think. 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:13.680 We, of course we forgive Jordan, and for the millions 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.360 of reasons, how much we love him and miss him 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:20.800 and admired him as a person. I think there's a 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:26.000 difference between that concept of privately commemorating it and privately, 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:30.120 of course we forgive him, But it's a separate thing 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:34.880 to also own his culpability and own the choices that 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:38.279 he's made, and part of part of the journey with 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:43.440 carrying this weight and understanding how we can make use 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:46.760 of it in some sort of positive way. Is I 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:51.240 guess that separation between loving him and forgiving him and 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:55.200 privately commemorating him, but also being really sensitive about the 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:59.719 idea publicly that this is not, you know, a celebration 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:01.919 of Jordan's life. We don't do what we do with 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:05.480 you choose for any sort of healing for ourselves. What 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:07.720 we seek is change, Gary, Okay. 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.880 I think what people might not realize too is that 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.920 that very day Jordan made those choices, and he destroyed 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.960 so many his lives, so many lives. What he did 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.520 was he transferred his culpability onto the shoulders of the 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.680 people that he loved the most. And that from that 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:26.920 very day that I sat on the door and sorry, 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:28.680 I sat at home and we got the knock on 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:32.320 the door from the police, we felt that really heavy 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:36.320 weight of civic responsibility. Whilst all the information about Jordan's 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:39.840 crash wasn't available right then and there, we knew that 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:41.960 it would be his fault. So we instantly felt that 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:45.280 feeling of going, my goodness, we've got a son who 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:49.560 made choices that killed four people. I mean, what did 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:52.000 you do with those feelings of civic responsibility? And they 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:54.640 were instant, weren't they Like we were in the middle 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:58.240 of going what the heck is even happening, but also 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:00.840 feeling that weight instantly. 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:01.680 Mind you. 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:04.680 You know, it also should be said we didn't start 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:09.960 youtubes immediately. Of course, it took a number of years, 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.680 four years before we were even able to formulate the 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:16.840 idea that there should be something that we could do. 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:21.680 It will never be made right, but if just one 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.800 family can be can be spared, you know, the tragedy 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:29.680 that Jordan's victims families have been through and it won't. 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:33.280 Then any kind of effort we can put in at all, 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:35.360 small or large, would be well worth it. 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:38.280 Well, you're right, Just making the difference in one person's life, 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.560 or seeing one person in the right direction, can have 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:44.920 a ripple effect that you can't even comprehend how far 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:50.000 it reaches. Let's talk about Jordan for a bit. What's 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:53.680 your last memory of Jordan? Both of you, like the 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:56.520 last time before you got the horrendous knock at. 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:57.320 The door by the police. 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:59.800 What was your last contact and memory with. 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:07.280 Your Okay, so the Saturday before, sorry, the Sunday before 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.360 Jordan died, So six days before Jordan died, and it 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:13.200 was not far off Christmas, and Jordan and I went 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:17.400 shopping to buy Jordan's Christmas presents and we actually had 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:19.240 a really lovely day and it was so rare that 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.280 the two of us spent time together because you know, 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:25.080 like what eighteen year old wants to hang out with, ma'am? Yeah, yeah, exactly. 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:27.439 So we had this really lovely day. We went down, 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:29.680 we had lunch together, we laughed a lot, was just 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:34.000 him and I and I actually tell this story during 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:36.400 part of the presentation that we do into schools, but 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:40.120 I was We were shopping in a particular store and 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:44.040 Jordan was just trying on everything going that we were 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.720 going to buy him for his Christmas presents. And while 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:49.400 he was just trying on his clothes, I went in 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:51.760 and I just tried on this dress just for fun. 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:53.880 And I came out and I said to Jordan, Hey, 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:55.120 what do you think of this dress? 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:55.439 Mate? 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:59.360 And he said to me, Mum, you look really pretty 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:03.120 in that. And I just remember thinking, oh, my goodness, 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:06.319 did I just get a compliment from my son. So 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:08.920 when amongst buying all of his stuff, I bought that 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:11.520 black dress, which happened to be the same black dress 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:16.240 that I wore nineteen days later at his funeral. So 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:19.400 that was my last memory, this fantastic that day that 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:22.760 I'd had with Jordan, shopping and having lunch and laughing, 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:24.839 and you know the fact that he gave me this 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:27.600 this compliment. And Jordan would never also leave home without 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:31.360 giving me a kiss goodbye, so it was, for all 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.640 intents and purposes, it was a really lovely day. So 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:36.880 I'm so grateful that that was our last moment together, 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.040 because of course he wasn't living at home at that time. 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.640 So he had moved to Brisbane for his carpentry apprenticeship. 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:46.199 But that event followed you and him going to Oh yeah. 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:47.080 Funny enough. 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:50.440 That's why we always say to the many hundreds and 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:52.960 hundreds of thousands of kids that we interact with these days, 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.040 you know, don't look at that door without exchanging I. 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:56.720 Love you, right, you hear it? 0:10:56.720 --> 0:11:01.520 A lot, Yeah, people experienced these things. Yeah, but look, 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:04.520 it speaks to a broader issue about Jordan. But he 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.599 wasn't a lot different to any other team, you know. 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:10.680 And I guess we'll dig into this a little bit later, 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:14.080 but certainly on the Gold Coast. I know, I'm a 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:15.800 born and bred Gold Coaster. It was all you could 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.040 do to wear a shirt when you're a teenager. And 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.920 I can recall us. We were leaving, I think, to 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.920 see the latest James Bond movie at the time, you know, 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:26.240 and he's just walking out the door and his jeans 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:29.600 and he's you know, and he's four pluggers, no shirt, 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:31.360 very impressed with his own rig. 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:33.439 He's a muscular kid. He loved his. 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:35.880 Footy and I said, mate, could you least tuck a 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:38.040 T shirt into the back, you know, take one with you. 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:39.240 I think. 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:43.480 So that was our sort of the. 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:46.680 Last last time together, and of course we exchanged I 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:47.960 love yous as well, we always did. 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.640 I think there's still instance has really sum up Jordan. 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:52.960 Kind of, does you know. 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:57.760 And he was a very loving young man, very loving 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:02.960 to his younger sisters, his nieces, his cousins, his dad, sorry, 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:10.200 his cousins, his dad on stepdad. Had beautiful relationships with 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:11.360 everyone in his life. 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.760 It says a lot about that. That's your last memory 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:19.880 and Melissa, for you, that's that awkward transitional stage between 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:21.680 he's going to become a man and he won't be 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:25.360 out shopping with his mum much longer. And that's his 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:27.640 reference to you wearing the dress. You look pretty in it. 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.920 It's stepping in the manhood. He can make informed comments 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:35.080 like that, so special moments and the joy of going 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:38.440 to watch a film with your son and raiming him 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.960 in walking out, could you, like my normal comment, could 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:45.400 you put some shoes on that? Maybe you should wear 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:47.559 some shoes if you're going out that type of thing. 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:50.000 But look, I'm glad you can hang on to those 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:52.319 those memories because they must be so important to you. 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:56.040 The last of the contacts and memories and we've. 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:59.560 Got numerous, I mean obviously years, a lifetime of memories 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:02.840 with him. As we often say, don't he's no angel. 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.800 He's very much like any other team. But that's the point. 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:10.200 It's very much like any other team. So in so 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:14.480 many ways, like his life, our lives like really hold 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:17.280 up a mirror to almost any family or any teenager 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:18.000 in Australia. 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:22.480 It's the average teenager, average family, and this is what happens. 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:25.280 I'll bring you to the time that you found out 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.439 that Jordan had been involved in the car crash. Can 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:30.920 you can you talk us through that because it's something 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:35.440 that no one wants to experience. And I've been involved 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:37.320 from the police point of view, doing the knock on 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:41.960 the door and it's just horrendous. If you're comfortable, can 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:45.240 you tell us tell us about you when you found 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:47.520 out that about the crash. 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:49.560 So Jordan was living in Brisbane at the time, where 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:52.520 Gold Coast based, and Jordan had been at his work 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:56.560 Christmas party the evening beforehand, and it's got to be 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:58.840 said that his bosses did everything right at the end 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:02.400 of the party there or sent home in cabs and 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.679 for reasons that we don't know, and we'll never know. 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:09.160 Jordan decided to drive home from Brisbane to the Gold Coast. 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:11.960 We'd exchanged a couple of texts with Jordan that night. 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:13.680 He said he was having a fantastic It was like 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:18.319 his first ever work Christmas party. Yeah right, a passage. Yeah. 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:20.640 He was a carpenter, apprentice carpenter. So he was with 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:22.840 all of his mates and they'd been out in the 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.280 hot sun digging holes and you know, so they're enjoying 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:26.600 a few beers and you know what you do at 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:30.800 a Christmas party. So he decided to drive home very 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:33.600 late that night. He was going to go, as we 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:35.360 found out later, he was going to go and stay 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:37.080 with a couple of mates down on the Gold Coast. 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.360 The next morning, we were none the wiser that Jordan 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:43.720 had driven down to the Gold Coast and we had 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.040 a knock at the We live in a three story 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:47.720 walk up, so we've got one of those airphones, so 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:51.800 we had a ring on our airphone and I answered 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.960 that airphone and it was a couple of police saying, 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:59.800 you know, it's the police and we're looking for Melissa Hayes. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:04.520 And that was really interesting because I Hayes was my sorry, 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.920 my first married name, so it was unusual be called Melissa. 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.680 Hazel thought that's very odd. And I had to go 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:12.560 down to the stairs to let those offices in. And 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.800 as I was walking down those last flight of stairs 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.160 and I saw the two officers through that glass door, 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:22.080 I knew that I was about to be delivered news 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:25.360 that was going to shatter my family. When I opened 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:28.200 the door, they didn't tell me straight away what had happened. 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:30.280 They asked if they could come up. And I walked 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:31.560 in the door and I said to Peter, you know, 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:35.560 the police are here. And they were so good, Gary, 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.280 they were amazing. And they said, somebody that you want 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:40.840 to phone, is you know? And we said, no, no, no, 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.560 what's happened? And then they delivered us that news that 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:45.560 there had been a crash on the M one and 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:47.920 that I forget the words, but it was something along 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:49.800 the lines of we believed that your son has been 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:55.120 fatally injured, and you know, you take it from there, 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:59.000 but that was just it made no sense at that 0:15:59.160 --> 0:15:59.880 exact moment. 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:03.160 And look, of course, over the over the years and 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:06.160 it won't be news to you at all. Gary, We've 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:10.960 we've had the beautiful privilege to meet many many bereaved 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:14.680 parents over the years, so that how that plays out, 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:18.600 he has a real familiarity to it with every story, 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:22.360 as you'd know, mate. But on that morning, it took 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:25.520 some time for us to get the full picture as 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.920 to what was well, what had played out the night before, 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:32.520 And it was much later in that day that it 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:35.080 was revealed to us that, you know, there had been 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:40.440 the scale of the tragedy as as the day played 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.960 out and as the subsequent weeks and months played out 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:45.200 as well well. 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:50.960 I would imagine receiving that news initially it would be 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.080 hard to process, just coming to terms of what you've 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:55.840 been told from a knock on the door and your 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:59.240 your life changed dramatically, and the grief of the shock, 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:03.320 the not even accepting it. I think it's hard, and 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:05.440 I've seen people that know that it must be wrong. 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:10.240 That type of narrative. Narrative comes back. So what happened 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:12.680 after they told you? What did you actually do? What 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:14.080 was the next step? 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:17.720 The police were so amazing that the two police that 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:20.359 did that door knock, they were so caring they stayed 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:22.440 with us for good. I would say it was about 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:25.880 two hours to make sure that we're okay, and we 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:29.400 made the decision well, actually I had a girlfriend staying 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:31.560 with me, My best friend was there that night, and 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.520 I had my daughter, my youngest daughter, who was four 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:35.480 at the time, at home, and we made a decision 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.240 that we wanted to go to the police station and 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:40.720 meet up with those first responding offices. We wanted to 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:42.720 understand a little bit more about what had happened in 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:45.040 but we were in so much shock, I don't even 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:49.439 know quite how to put it into words. So my 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:51.840 friend that was staying there, she minded my four year old, 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:54.200 our four year old daughter, and we just drove straight 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.679 to the police station and we were there with the 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:59.000 first responding officers. And I'll never forget it because there 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.639 was a young man there who look he looked like 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.640 he was maybe twenty years old, something like they look 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.040 so young and to think that, you know, that was 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:10.520 probably his first big crash scene that he had been 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:12.840 to it it's never lost. I mean, thank you so 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:14.560 much for the work that you do, because I think 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:17.320 about what that scene must have looked like to the 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:23.560 many police ambos and fieries, the undertakers, all those people 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:26.560 that were there that night to see this young man, 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:28.320 to go, My goodness, that would have been probably your 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:30.600 first big horrendous event that you've turned up to. And 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:33.480 my heart breaks thinking, you know what he saw that night, 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.040 what you all see, what you all go through again, 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:38.879 bringing it back to someone's choices, all because of Jordan's choice. 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.959 That crash was preventable, It should never have happened. 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:44.480 Well, the fact that you guys are sitting here and 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.160 talking about your concern for other people when you're going 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:50.200 through that, I think that says a lot about the 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.359 type of people you are in the environment that Jordan 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:58.840 would have been raised in. You've found out that it 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:01.639 was a crash, hard to find out more details of 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.400 the crash. When did the when did the i'll call 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:08.479 it the realization come to the fact that it was 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:11.199 Jordan's actions that caused the crash. When when did you 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:12.960 start to come to terms with that? 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:17.560 I think a bit of a blur, Gary, But we 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:19.600 knew parts of it straight away. We knew that he'd 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:21.720 hit the back of the car, so that part was 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:24.159 going to be his fault. We knew that he'd been 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:26.199 drinking the night before because it exchanged a couple of 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:28.479 texts with us. But as the cannabis in his system 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:31.880 and the speed you know, that stuff came out much 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:32.879 later down the track. 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:38.719 So we were given advice, and I think pretty good 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:44.080 advice to just not look at the media. I guess 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:46.640 because of me especially. It was it was very news 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:52.240 worthy event least the Queensland's major arterial shouting both directions 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:54.960 for hours and hours a couple of weeks before Christmas, 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.200 so it took a while for us to to get 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:01.160 all of the detail out. Of course, during that first 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:03.760 period of time, naturally we've got to get around and 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:09.040 let how various other relatives know. And the other major 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:15.400 consideration is the feelings for all of everyone affected, all 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:19.320 of the families, all of everyone that the community at large. 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:20.880 You're taking on that all that grief. 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:26.040 Yeah, but of course our two daughters, Jordan's little sisters, 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:29.480 who were at the time four and eleven respectively, ten 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:34.600 sorry respectively, we really just had to keep putting one 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:37.439 foot in front of the other and just try to 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:40.080 take one day literally, as Melissa says, one sunset at 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:40.440 a time. 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:45.600 How did Jordan's sisters take the news and how did 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:46.120 you break it. 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:51.600 To the kitty, our youngest. It's kind of a little 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:55.399 too young to completely understand it. 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:57.400 She was there and saw it, she was there when 0:20:57.400 --> 0:20:58.119 the police arrived. 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:05.720 Yeah, So for her it was more of a she 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:13.119 wasn't stricken with the guilt, sorry, the grief immediately, yeah, 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:18.600 but rather just obviously upset because because of just the 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:20.320 visceral feelings of the emotion. 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:22.879 That she was really concerned to about us as a 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:25.080 little fought through the four year old's eyes. She didn't 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:27.800