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Speaker 1: Last week, US Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth gathered hundreds of

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Speaker 1: service members at a base in Virginia to lay out

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Speaker 1: his vision for the American military.

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Speaker 2: Our national motto is, after all, in God we trust. Today,

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Speaker 2: we reaffirm that trust.

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Speaker 1: Alongside sweeping changes to the way it fights and trains,

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Speaker 1: Hegseth announced a new Office of Religious Affairs reporting directly

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Speaker 1: to him, aimed at putting what he calls spiritual health

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Speaker 1: on the same level as physical health.

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Speaker 2: Our department is, you might say, putting on the full

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Speaker 2: armor of God.

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Speaker 3: Because while we wage physical war, we all know the

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Speaker 3: real battle is spiritual.

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Speaker 1: It's the clearest sign yet of how HECSA's evangelical Christianity

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Speaker 1: is shaping the Pentagon and religious policy across the armed forces.

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Speaker 1: Earlier this year, we looked at the police driving HECSA's

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Speaker 1: push to remake the military. and why Donald Trump chose

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Speaker 1: him to wage a cultural and ideological battle inside it,

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Speaker 1: bringing so-called warrior culture back to an institution they believed

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Speaker 1: had gone woke. I'm Daniel James, and you're listening to 7am. Today,

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Speaker 1: former Voice of America Chief National Correspondent Steve Herman on

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Speaker 1: Pete Hexeth, Christian Nationalism and the Religious Worldview with Shaping

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Speaker 1: the US Military. It's Sunday, October 11. This episode first

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Speaker 1: aired in March 2026.

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Speaker 4: Steve, when President Trump picked Pete Hegzeth for the Defence Secretary,

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Speaker 4: he chose someone who would not only shake up the Pentagon,

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Speaker 4: but Trump used to joke about him being TV ready.

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Speaker 4: He was a Fox News commentator. Later, he was a host.

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Speaker 4: Could you tell us a bit about his earlier years,

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Speaker 4: his reputation at university and And then when he was

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Speaker 4: a TV personality, what was it he liked to talk about?

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Speaker 5: Well, unlike some in the MAGA inner circle, Hegseth has

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Speaker 5: been pretty consistent in his views for a long time.

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Speaker 5: He was a publisher of the Tory conservative student magazine

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Speaker 5: when he was at Princeton University. And he was railing

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Speaker 5: back then about liberal indoctrination. He strongly opposed the diversity initiatives.

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Speaker 5: And he was a member of a circle of religious

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Speaker 5: conservative athletes.

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Speaker 6: They had a nickname.

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Speaker 5: They were called the God Squad. And classmates remember him

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Speaker 5: as deeply committed to this kind of crusade against the

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Speaker 5: liberal culture on campus. And then when he got on

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Speaker 5: the Fox News channel, Hegseth built on this reputation as

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Speaker 5: opposing the woke ideology.

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Speaker 1: We've got a new sheriff in town.

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Speaker 3: The social justice engineering of Obama, the focus on gender

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Speaker 3: and quotas and all the things he did in the Pentagon,

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Speaker 3: which have nothing to do with fighting and winning.

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Speaker 5: Wars, that era's over. Especially within the Department of Defense.

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Speaker 7: You don't like women in combat?

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Speaker 5: No. Hegseth, maybe as a result of his experience in

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Speaker 5: the military, in the field, has a kind of chip

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Speaker 5: on his shoulder. And he frequently argued that these DEI

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Speaker 5: initiatives were undermining the lethality of the military. Return the

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Speaker 5: Pentagon to the warfighters, Pete.

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Speaker 8: Get in there and clean out all the social justice,

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Speaker 8: politically correct garbage on top and get back to lethality, warfighting, accountability,

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Speaker 8: meritocracy and readiness.

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Speaker 4: So, Steve, what was the appeal for Trump of bringing

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Speaker 4: on Hegseth other than he's TV good looks.

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Speaker 7: Why did he want him to run the Pentagon?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that had a lot to do with it, Nicole.

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Speaker 5: This is somebody that Donald Trump, an avid TV watcher,

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Speaker 5: especially of Fox News, had seen on a program called

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Speaker 5: Fox and Friends Weekend. And he viewed Hegseth as somebody

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Speaker 5: he thought would be trustworthy, wouldn't leak to the press,

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Speaker 5: wouldn't push back on presidential directives because in the first administration,

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Speaker 5: Donald Trump had a lot of problems with these military

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Speaker 5: generals who really felt that their obedience was to the Constitution,

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Speaker 5: not any particular individual or president.

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Speaker 3: Unfortunately, we have had leaders who either refused to call

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Speaker 3: BS and enforce standards or leaders who felt like they.

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Speaker 2: Were not allowed to enforce standards.

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Speaker 6: Both are unacceptable.

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Speaker 5: And Hegseth also, I think, mirrored Trump in rhetoric. And

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Speaker 5: with Trump's political brand is trying to appeal to the

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Speaker 5: enlisted soldier, the rank and file, rather than the generals

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Speaker 5: and the admirals and the other high-ranking officers. And because

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Speaker 5: the common man is engaged in this internal battle here

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Speaker 5: in the country against this entrenched so-called deep state, that's

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Speaker 5: the way that they see it.

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Speaker 4: Steve, as you were saying, religion clearly a very big

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Speaker 4: part of Hegseth's life. Now he follows an evangelical church.

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Speaker 4: Could you tell us more about how religion has really

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Speaker 4: informed and influenced his politics now and his view of

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Speaker 4: the world and view of America's place in it?

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Speaker 5: Hegseth essentially views the United States as a Christian republic

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Speaker 5: and a republic that finds itself in a state of

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Speaker 5: spiritual and cultural warfare. I think anyone who's studied anything

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Speaker 5: about American history is familiar with this concept of the

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Speaker 5: separation of church and state. But folks like Pete Hegseth

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Speaker 5: don't see it that way or say that that's not

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Speaker 5: what the country should be. He has these tattoos, the

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Speaker 5: Jerusalem Cross, a Latin phrase that means God wills it.

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Speaker 4: Hegseth has tattoos associated with the white supremacist and neo-Nazi movements.

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Speaker 1: Including what's known as a Jerusalem cross, a symbol used

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Speaker 1: by Christian nationalists.

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Speaker 5: And these are symbols of the warrior Christian identity. Where

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Speaker 5: it gets really dangerous is that in this framing, the

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Speaker 5: conflicts of the Middle East are seen not as some

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Speaker 5: sort of fluid geopolitical activity, but rather part of God's

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Speaker 5: divine plan.

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Speaker 4: Yes, because as an evangelical, he believes in the second

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Speaker 4: coming of Christ, which would require Jewish people to return

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Speaker 4: to the Holy Land.

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Speaker 7: That's the belief there.

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Speaker 4: So is that why Israel, I guess, is such a

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Speaker 4: central part of his views and why he's such a

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Speaker 4: huge supporter of them.

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Speaker 5: Yes, in the conversations I've had over the decades with

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Speaker 5: the Christian evangelicals who subscribe to this particular aspect of ideology,

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Speaker 5: they need to protect the Jews. The United States must

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Speaker 5: support Israel because if the Arabs wipe out Israel, then

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Speaker 5: Jesus won't be able to come back to earth. You know,

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Speaker 5: so there's a bit of discomfort, I can tell you,

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Speaker 5: among some Jews. Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel, has

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Speaker 5: sort of embraced this because, hey, we'll take our friends

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Speaker 5: where we can find them. And, you know, Netanyahu would say,

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Speaker 5: I don't believe in this, but if they do and

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Speaker 5: it helps Israel, that's great. But other Jews will point out, that, hey,

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Speaker 5: these Christians are supporting us, not because they like Jews,

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Speaker 5: in fact, they would love for all Jews eventually to

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Speaker 5: become Christians, but rather this is fulfilling a biblical prophecy

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Speaker 5: from the New Testament.

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Speaker 7: Coming up, will Pete Hegzeth fall on his sword?

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Speaker 3: From this moment forward, the only mission of the newly

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Speaker 3: restored Department of War is this, war fighting, preparing for

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Speaker 3: war and preparing to win, unrelenting and uncompromising in that pursuit.

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Speaker 4: Steve, Pete Hegseth, he's obsessed with strength and power. He

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Speaker 4: changed the name of the Department of Defense to the

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Speaker 4: Department of War. He's been releasing these sort of strange

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Speaker 4: video promos about drug cartels. the Iran war, to what

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Speaker 4: extent do you think he's there for Trump to look tough,

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Speaker 4: overhaul the military and just deliver the president's message? Is

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Speaker 4: that his role or does Trump really even listen to him?

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Speaker 5: One thing I can tell you about Donald Trump and

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Speaker 5: advice is a lot of the time it's just the

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Speaker 5: last person that Trump has spoken to who wins out.

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Speaker 5: He has obviously shown that he likes to be at

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Speaker 5: the lectern lecturing, whether they're generals or reporters.

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Speaker 2: It's completely unacceptable to see fat generals and admirals in

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Speaker 2: the halls of the Pentagon and leading commands around the

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Speaker 2: country and the world.

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Speaker 5: It's a bad look.

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Speaker 2: It is bad, and it's not.

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Speaker 5: Who we are. He's made some strange and insulting statements,

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Speaker 5: belittling people. But what I think you see among Trump

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Speaker 5: cabinet members in the second term, and we can point

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Speaker 5: out the the former Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem, as

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Speaker 5: an example, that you engage in behavior that emulates the boss.

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Speaker 5: But I really think there's a limit. And if the

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Speaker 5: performance eventually refines, poorly on the administration, then the strategy

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Speaker 5: can backfire. And if this war ends up badly for

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Speaker 5: the Pentagon and U.S. forces, it seems almost undoubtedly that

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Speaker 5: Pete Hegseth will have to fall on the sword because

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Speaker 5: Donald Trump is not going to blame Donald Trump.

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Speaker 7: We know Hegseth, he is the public face of all

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Speaker 7: of this war.

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Speaker 4: And he has been talking about it in really religious

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Speaker 4: terms as part of God's divine plan.

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Speaker 2: May Almighty God continue to bless our troops in this fight.

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Speaker 2: And again, to the American people, please pray for them

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Speaker 2: every day on bended knee with your family, in your schools,

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Speaker 2: in your churches, in the name of Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 4: Some of the commanders are also starting to use that

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Speaker 4: similar language. What do we know about how religion is

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Speaker 4: really being used to frame this war?

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Speaker 7: And is it changing the nature of the debate in

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Speaker 7: the US?

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Speaker 5: We did not mix in decades past Christianity and defense policy.

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Speaker 5: But I think we're very clearly at that point these days.

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Speaker 5: Is it changing how the war is being discussed in America?

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Speaker 5: I don't really think so because the American people, Congress,

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Speaker 5: the US allies, aren't getting really any sufficient explanation about

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Speaker 5: why this war was started, how it's going to be fought,

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Speaker 5: what is the goal, what is the post-war plan that

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Speaker 5: there's going to be. That's the big problem. And you

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Speaker 5: also have the President referring to the potential of further

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Speaker 5: attacks as possibly being launched, not because there's a strategic reason,

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Speaker 5: but because it's fun.

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Speaker 4: At the top of the line, I said, why didn't

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Speaker 4: we just capture the ship?

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Speaker 6: We could have used it. Why didn't we sink them?

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Speaker 6: He said, it's more fun to sink them. They like

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Speaker 6: sinking them better.

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Speaker 5: And the Pentagon and the White House are producing these

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Speaker 5: video game memes. Since the conflict broke out, we've seen

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Speaker 5: both Iran and the U.S. embrace a new style of war, propaganda.

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Speaker 6: Notably using memes, AI, and trolling. We're going to annihilate

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Speaker 6: their navy.

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Speaker 5: We're going to ensure that the region's terrorist proxies can

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Speaker 5: no longer destabilize the region or the world. There seems

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Speaker 5: to be a mix of a really shocking level of

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Speaker 5: unseriousness You know, a lot of civilians are dying in Iran.

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Speaker 6: U.S.

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Speaker 5: Military forces are dying. And I think there's a significant

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Speaker 5: percentage of the American public that's finding this offensive, objectionable.

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Speaker 5: And we're starting to see a backlash against that. There's

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Speaker 5: the politician in Texas who's running for the U.S. Senate,

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Speaker 5: a Democrat that seems to have a chance in a

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Speaker 5: very red state, James Tallarico. who is a conservative Christian,

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Speaker 5: but he is bluntly saying that what is happening now,

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Speaker 5: these are not Christian values, whether it relates to immigration

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Speaker 5: or the conduct of this war.

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Speaker 9: They have co-opted the son of God. They've turned this

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Speaker 9: humble rabbi into a gun-toting, gay-bashing, science-denying, money-loving, fear-mongering fascist.

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Speaker 9: And it is incumbent upon all Christians to confront it,

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Speaker 9: And denounce it.

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Speaker 4: And Steve, what do you think Hegseth really says to

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Speaker 4: us about the future or the direction of U.S.

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Speaker 7: Politics under Trump? What is it he symbolizes?

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Speaker 5: Well, I think what he symbolizes is that people are

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Speaker 5: put into these positions as puppets, that they must be

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Speaker 5: loyal to the president. First and foremost, that is what

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Speaker 5: is important. And we're hearing terms being thrown out by Trump,

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Speaker 5: by Hegseth. that broadcasters who don't get in line and

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Speaker 5: report the war the way that the president wants it reported,

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Speaker 5: that those broadcasters could lose their license. And the word

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Speaker 5: treason is being bandied about as well. So this is

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Speaker 5: getting extremely serious. It's getting to be beyond intimidation. And,

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Speaker 5: you know, this is not what American media is about

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Speaker 5: because we have the First Amendment of the Constitution. in

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Speaker 5: this country, which guarantees freedom of the press. Look, if

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Speaker 5: you want to put in sycophants and goofballs and billionaires

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Speaker 5: as the Secretary of the Interior or the head of

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Speaker 5: the Environmental Protection Agency or something like that, there's a

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Speaker 5: limited amount of.

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Speaker 6: Damage they can do.

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Speaker 5: But when you're talking about, you know, the head of

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Speaker 5: Homeland Security or the Director of National Intelligence or the

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Speaker 5: the defense secretary, the U.S. attorney general. I think even

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Speaker 5: a lot of people in MAGA world and supporters of

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Speaker 5: the president would agree that he probably was not the

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Speaker 5: right man, because it's going to be a man, for

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Speaker 5: the right job at the right time.

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Speaker 7: Steve, it's been a real pleasure to talk to you.

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Speaker 7: Thanks for joining us.

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Speaker 6: My pleasure, Nicole.

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Speaker 1: 7am, we'll be back tomorrow with the story of Kath Madgwick,

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Speaker 1: whose 22-year-old son, Jared, died after being told he owed

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Speaker 1: Centrelink nearly $ 2, 000. His death became one of the most

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Speaker 1: devastating stories of the Robodex scandal. But seven years later,

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Speaker 1: after fighting for answers and giving evidence to the Royal Commission...

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Speaker 1: Kath has been told her family isn't eligible for compensation.

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Speaker 7: Do you feel like there has been any accountability or

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Speaker 7: any justice?

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Speaker 6: No.

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Speaker 7: Not for Jared.

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Speaker 6: Not at all. Um.

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Speaker 7: I mean, how would they feel if that was their child?

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Speaker 5: This is my child.

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Speaker 6: This is my life.

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Speaker 1: That's tomorrow on 7am. I'm Daniel James. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 6: MUSIC you