1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Fear and Greed Sunday feature, oh Michael Thompson. 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Last week we heard that Hollywood star Ryan Reynolds would 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: be bringing his Welsh soccer team Rexham AFC to Australia 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: for a preseason friendly. And the team has achieved We've 5 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: got to say, worldwide fame really in the last few 6 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: years after actors Reynolds and Rob McElhenny bought it turned 7 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 1: it into a Disney Plus series hugely successful called Welcome 8 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: to Wrexham. But they are not the only ones getting 9 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: into sporting teams, with private equity funds getting on board. 10 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 2: Two. 11 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: This interview today is Sean Aylmer speaking with Stefan von 12 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: Imoff from ALTS dot Co. Back in May of last year. 13 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Fear and Greed business interview. I'm sure Alma, 14 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 2: regular listeners to the show would know. We love talking 15 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 2: about unusual and alternative investments. Stefan von Imoff, the co 16 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 2: founder of alternative investing community fund AULTS dot colt S 17 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 2: dot Co, has talked us through investing in art, final records, tequila, 18 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 2: domain names, watches, even water. I think today we're talking 19 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 2: about investing in sporting teams. Obviously, This is general information only, 20 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 2: and you should always seek professional advice before making investment decisions. Stefan, 21 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Fear and Greed. 22 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 3: Great to be here, Thank you for having me. 23 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 2: Now. One that we're going to start with, I know 24 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 2: is one that you guys are interested in. You've been 25 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 2: in New Zealand recently there's talks about a new NRL team, 26 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 2: National Rugby League team. There. Take me through that, Take 27 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: me through the thinking behind that and investing in a 28 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 2: sport like that. 29 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 3: So if there's one thing we've learned in our time 30 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 3: studying alternative markets for the past four years now, it's 31 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 3: that there's one alternative investment that kind of stands above 32 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 3: the rest. It's the one that everyone tries to get 33 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 3: into and it's really really difficult, and it's pro sports teams. 34 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 3: Pro sports teams are I cannot stress this enough some 35 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 3: of the world's most unfairly lucrative alternative investments, but they're 36 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 3: also some of the toughest ones to get into. You 37 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 3: typically you need tens of millions of dollars to even 38 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 3: get a seat at the table. You need connections galore, 39 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 3: So it's unlikely that most people are going to have 40 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,839 Speaker 3: the opportunity to invest in let's say, a grid iron 41 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 3: NFL team or a baseball team or something like that. 42 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 3: But as far as sports investing goes, rugby is one 43 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 3: that we find especially compelling. It's you know, hugely popular 44 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 3: here in Australia, UK and especially in New Zealand. But 45 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 3: here's the thing. Despite all of the love for the sport, 46 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 3: the seventeen NRL teams National Rugby League teams today and 47 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 3: only one of them is actually in New Zealand and 48 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 3: it's on the North Island. So there's a special group 49 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 3: that's bidding to create the NRL's eighteenth team and it's 50 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 3: going to be on the South Island, the first NRL 51 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 3: team on the South Island. You have decided to put 52 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 3: our money where our mouth is and invest with that group. 53 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 2: So what is it about sporting teams? Be it the 54 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: one that you're talking about, or you know, I mean 55 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 2: the world I have a football as in soccer is 56 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 2: hugely popular and very difficult to get into. Obviously the 57 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 2: American sporting teams are the same. What is it that 58 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 2: is such an investment opportunity, because in some ways it's 59 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 2: a bit irrational sport. 60 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 3: I think it is a little irrational. Look, not all 61 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 3: sports are created equal. Some are much more unfairly lucrative 62 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 3: than others. I mean, NFL, for example, is just basically 63 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 3: taking over the world. As an NFL fan, I'm totally 64 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 3: okay with this, but that's very different than you know, 65 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 3: maybe something like a pickleball team, which you could probably 66 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 3: invest in with like thirty dollars, except it's not going 67 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 3: to go anywhere. Other teams other sports leagues rather are 68 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 3: actually protected by laws. So like in America major League Baseball, 69 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 3: you're legally not allowed to create another league a baseball 70 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 3: league in America the law, right, so there's some special protections. 71 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 3: But what we like about rugby is. 72 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: It's I'm going to jump into its rugby league we're 73 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 2: talking about he as opposed to rugby union. 74 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 3: That's correct, Yeah, yep, yep, yep. Sorry, yeah, absolutely, And 75 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 3: by the way, I've learned the difference myself only in 76 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 3: the past year. So, but I think what's interesting is 77 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 3: that the difference between rugby's popularity and the actual revenue. 78 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 3: Rugby has a ton of viewers, but it has a 79 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 3: disproportionately low amount of sponsorship revenue today, and that arbitrage 80 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 3: we believe opportunity exists for the time being, it will 81 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 3: close at some point, and so that's kind of what 82 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 3: we why we like it. We feel that rugby is 83 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 3: basically undervalued compared to how popular it actually is. 84 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: Okay, so who else would be invested to hate but 85 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 2: buys these sorts of teams. I know that in the 86 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: case of APO, for example, in England and certainly in 87 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 2: US sports, often it's an owner. It's an extremely rich 88 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: person who owns the team. Is that normally the way 89 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 2: people invest or? Is it more of a private equity investment? 90 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 2: How did I run? Who are the investors? 91 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 3: You know, it's funny, it's changing right before our eyes. 92 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, sports teams used to kind of 93 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 3: get passed down from family to family and ultra ultra 94 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 3: ultra high net worth investors to each other. Basically that 95 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 3: has definitely started to change. PE has been a huge 96 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 3: part of that. PE has made a lot of moves 97 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 3: you may have heard in cricket actually, especially in over 98 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 3: in India with the IPL. The big win that p 99 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 3: had was they bought the team from Rajasthan. I forget 100 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 3: the name of the team, but they bought the team 101 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 3: from Rajasthan. And they won in their first year. They 102 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 3: won the whole thing, so their investment went up like 103 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,119 Speaker 3: twenty six x overnight. So Pee is starting to find 104 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 3: its way into sports teams, you know, over in Europe 105 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 3: with football actually in the NFL is loosening the rules 106 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 3: around Pe now as well. With this particular bid, it's 107 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 3: pretty groundswell. There's a mix of different investors. There's some 108 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 3: Hollywood folks we can't name who just yet that are 109 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 3: getting in, but there's a lot of folks from our community. 110 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 3: There's a lot of just rugby fans who are well 111 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 3: off who want to bring a team to life on 112 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 3: the South Island and we think they've got a pretty 113 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 3: good shot. There's two other to be clear, there's two 114 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 3: other places that are bidding for to be the eighteenth 115 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 3: team as well. One is out in Perth and the 116 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 3: other is up in Papua New Guinea. So it's basically 117 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 3: between Perth, Papua New Guinea and christ Church, South Island, 118 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 3: New Zealand. One of those three teams will be the 119 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 3: eighteenth general Team. 120 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 2: Stay with me, Stefan will be back in a minute. 121 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 2: I'm speaking to Stefan von Imoff, co founder of Alternative 122 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 2: investing Community fund alts dot co. Okay, so where do 123 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 2: you get your money back from Stefan? So I get 124 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 2: what you're doing, how do you get your money back? 125 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 3: So really it's it's through sponsorship revenue, right, And so 126 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 3: this is again where we feel that there's a disconnect 127 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 3: between the number of eyeballs that rugby has and the 128 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 3: revenue per eyeball that it has compared to other sports. 129 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 3: So that's why we think this could be a really 130 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 3: good opportunity. But yeah, it's basically all about the sponsorship revenue, 131 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 3: and there's sponsorship rights. It gets into a very confusing world. 132 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,119 Speaker 3: The world of media rights and sponsorship rights gets pretty 133 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 3: intense outside the scope I think of this call. But 134 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 3: that is primarily where you make your money. There's also merchandising. 135 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 3: There's ticket sales, there's licensing. You've seen what's happened with 136 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 3: the you know, the big sports, the Major League Baseball 137 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 3: sports here in Australia. Time I walk by a cap store, 138 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 3: a hat store, you know, it's all like New York Yankees, 139 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 3: Boston Red Sox. You know they're getting cut of every sale. Right, 140 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 3: So merchandising can be a huge part of this as well, 141 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 3: but yeah, primarily it's through media rights, sponsorship rights. 142 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 2: And the rojaisteran. I think the rogis on Royals. I 143 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 2: think from memory the fact that pay you got into 144 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 2: it and they bought it. Success metas then or presume. 145 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that brand matters, but brand is based 146 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 3: on success ultimately, I mean, brand, can we take you 147 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 3: so far? I think that some brands have routinely gotten 148 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 3: lucky with having a great brand without having a ton 149 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 3: of success. Others have been kind of riding their success 150 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 3: for a long time and the brand has kind of 151 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 3: held the value. But generally speaking, yeah, you do kind 152 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 3: of want and need to do well as you'd imagine, 153 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 3: although I don't think people expect it on day one 154 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 3: or season one or year one. But you know, the 155 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 3: team behind the South alland Bid is putting a lot 156 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 3: of emphasis on the ground up so that the training 157 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 3: programs and the social programs. That's a big part of this, 158 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 3: you know, I mean, finding supply finding rugby players isn't 159 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 3: something that just happens on its own. That's something you 160 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 3: have to build as well. So part of the funds 161 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 3: go to programs like that to really build for the 162 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 3: long term. And that's another thing I like about this opportunity. 163 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 2: Okay, so what are the big risks? He one being 164 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 2: that I don't actually you know, they give the team 165 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 2: to pop me when you get you a Perth. Obviously 166 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 2: that's a big risk. But what else are you talking 167 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 2: about when you're looking at the downs on. 168 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, the biggest risk is that this doesn't 169 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 3: work and the bid goes to one of the other 170 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 3: two teams, which is absolutely a fundamental risk. I do 171 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,719 Speaker 3: personally believe that Southallend has the best chance, and one 172 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 3: of the reasons for that is there's a gorgeous new 173 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 3: stadium that's being built in christ Church. It's actually under 174 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 3: construction now and it's going to be done in twenty 175 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 3: twenty six. It's called Takeaja Stadium and it's going to 176 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 3: house thirty thousand rugby fans. And actually the New Zealand 177 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 3: government basically footed the bill for this, so the infrastructure 178 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 3: is always are already in place, so it's going to 179 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 3: be in place in twenty twenty six. So that's one 180 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 3: less risk you actually have to worry about with this bit, 181 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 3: which is fantastic. But in terms of other risks, I mean, yeah, look, 182 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,559 Speaker 3: it's sports teams that are started from scratch are very 183 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 3: different than buying you know, again, like the New York 184 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,199 Speaker 3: Yankees or the Boston Red Sox with a long history 185 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 3: of extremely high revenue, It'll take time for things to 186 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 3: get going, and that is not something that we should ignore. 187 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 3: But you know what I like about sports investing the 188 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 3: most is not only can you get a return, but 189 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 3: you get so many externalities and extra benefits from really 190 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 3: investing in something that you can not only you know, 191 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 3: believe in and get a return from, but actually watch 192 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 3: on TV, go to the stadium live, and know that 193 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 3: you were a part of it all, which is tremendously powerful. 194 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 2: So what are the best Like if you could invest 195 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 2: in any teams in the world, what would you invest 196 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 2: in the unlimited money here? Stefan? I mean, personally, I'd 197 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 2: certainly go Yankees, nix any New York team, probably the Jets. 198 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 2: Might not be a Jets fan, but you know I'd 199 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 2: guy that way. What would you invest in if you 200 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 2: could it as as an investor, not with your heart, 201 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 2: with your mind. 202 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 3: Oh, taking the heart out of it? Huh Well, I'll 203 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 3: tell you. Like, Look, the Yankees I think are basically 204 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 3: the strong. I mean, having lived in Australia now for 205 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 3: five years, and just seeing how much Yankees gear there 206 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 3: is here, people that may not even follow baseball that 207 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 3: closely that are just wearing the gear. It just makes 208 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 3: you realize how powerful globally the Yankees brand is. However, 209 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 3: I was born in Biston and I grew up in 210 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 3: Sohver in a million years invest in anything, especially the Yankees, 211 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:10,239 Speaker 3: so I would go with the Red Sox. 212 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 2: Right, Stephan, I had enjoyed having you on the show 213 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 2: until that very moment. I lived in New York for 214 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 2: a while, you see, and become a great Yankees fan. 215 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 2: And my neighbor was a seasoned pass holder and there 216 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 2: are so many games there are like seventy home games 217 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 2: this season. He was always looking for someone to go 218 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 2: with him. And you know, I was working from home. 219 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 2: So I become a Yankees fan. And the only thing 220 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 2: I writ, well, the thing I learned more than anything 221 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 2: is that you've got to hate the Red Sox. 222 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 3: You have to go on hold it against you. We 223 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 3: can still be friends. 224 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 2: Good Stephan, thanks for talking to fear and greed. 225 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 3: Thank you now. 226 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 2: Stefan Vonimoff, co founder of Alternative Investing Community Fund also 227 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 2: dot co that's alt. Yes, dot co CEO. This is 228 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 2: the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Remember this is general 229 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 2: information only and you should seek professional advice before making 230 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 2: investment decisions. Join us every morning for the full episode 231 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 2: of Fear and Greed, the daily business news for people 232 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 2: who make their own decisions. I'm Seane Elmer. Enjoy your day.