1 00:00:03,430 --> 00:00:07,260 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. Today's 2 00:00:07,260 --> 00:00:10,110 Sean Aylmer: interview is a pretty amazing story of persistence and how 3 00:00:10,110 --> 00:00:12,600 Sean Aylmer: a 30- year old company has managed to keep itself 4 00:00:12,850 --> 00:00:16,759 Sean Aylmer: at the forefront of technology in Australia. Macquarie Telecom Group 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,900 Sean Aylmer: was established in 1992 by brothers David and Aidan Tudehope. 6 00:00:21,670 --> 00:00:25,070 Sean Aylmer: Fast forward 30 years, Macquarie Telecom has survived serious competition 7 00:00:25,350 --> 00:00:27,900 Sean Aylmer: from Telstra and others, the end of the dot- com boom, 8 00:00:27,900 --> 00:00:31,120 Sean Aylmer: the GFC, the pandemic, and an influx of new agile 9 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,720 Sean Aylmer: tech start- ups, to turn itself into a cloud and 10 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,390 Sean Aylmer: data center business with a market cap of more than $ 1. 11 00:00:36,630 --> 00:00:40,650 Sean Aylmer: 3 billion. David Tudehope is the founder and CEO of 12 00:00:40,650 --> 00:00:43,159 Sean Aylmer: Macquarie Telecom Group. He joins me this morning. David, welcome 13 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:43,610 Sean Aylmer: to Fear and Greed. 14 00:00:44,150 --> 00:00:44,320 David Tudehope: Thank you. 15 00:00:44,950 --> 00:00:48,300 Sean Aylmer: When you started this 30 years ago, did you have any idea where 16 00:00:48,300 --> 00:00:48,810 Sean Aylmer: you'd end up? 17 00:00:50,530 --> 00:00:53,620 David Tudehope: Well, I came out of the banking industry, and like 18 00:00:53,620 --> 00:00:56,100 David Tudehope: a lot of people at the time, the banking industry was booming 19 00:00:56,100 --> 00:00:59,410 David Tudehope: and I joined that from university and then I recognized 20 00:00:59,410 --> 00:01:02,140 David Tudehope: that the banking industry was... it was hitting a very 21 00:01:02,140 --> 00:01:04,420 David Tudehope: serious recession. This was the last real recession we had 22 00:01:04,420 --> 00:01:10,630 David Tudehope: in Australia, and at the same time the government was deregulating 23 00:01:10,630 --> 00:01:13,440 David Tudehope: the telecom sector and it was everywhere in the news. 24 00:01:14,740 --> 00:01:17,740 David Tudehope: What I realized was that I loved meeting customers, I loved 25 00:01:18,030 --> 00:01:21,370 David Tudehope: business, and the corporate customers at the bank was my 26 00:01:21,370 --> 00:01:24,440 David Tudehope: passion even more so than banking, and I also recognized 27 00:01:24,510 --> 00:01:25,959 David Tudehope: that there was a huge gap, when I talked to 28 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,590 David Tudehope: my clients, between what they were experiencing from Telstra, which was a 29 00:01:30,069 --> 00:01:34,880 David Tudehope: very sad government- owned monopoly that called customers subscribers, and 30 00:01:35,330 --> 00:01:37,300 David Tudehope: what they expected was to be treated as a customer, 31 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,420 David Tudehope: and that was the opportunity I saw back in 1992. 32 00:01:42,020 --> 00:01:44,230 Sean Aylmer: You always were very heavy, you and your brother, very 33 00:01:44,230 --> 00:01:48,270 Sean Aylmer: heavy on service. There's a story which I've read about 34 00:01:48,330 --> 00:01:52,330 Sean Aylmer: you catching a bus overnight from Sydney to Melbourne and 35 00:01:52,330 --> 00:01:54,760 Sean Aylmer: back again, just to see clients. Is that true? 36 00:01:55,180 --> 00:01:58,040 David Tudehope: Well, it is true. The sad reality of a duopoly, 37 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,500 David Tudehope: whether it be in any industry, but including airlines, is 38 00:02:01,500 --> 00:02:03,810 David Tudehope: that prices go up and service goes down, and at 39 00:02:03,810 --> 00:02:09,639 David Tudehope: that time there was a duopoly in the air between Qantas and Ansett and prices just 40 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,100 David Tudehope: went up, and as a start- up, a small business, 41 00:02:12,100 --> 00:02:13,510 David Tudehope: nowadays called a tech start- up, which sounds a lot 42 00:02:13,510 --> 00:02:16,100 David Tudehope: more fun, I just simply couldn't afford to fly anywhere, 43 00:02:16,100 --> 00:02:19,579 David Tudehope: so I used to catch the Firefly Coach to Melbourne 44 00:02:20,060 --> 00:02:22,690 David Tudehope: after work in Sydney. We'd stop at The Big Merino 45 00:02:22,780 --> 00:02:25,130 David Tudehope: for a midnight dinner, a bit of wildlife there at 46 00:02:25,260 --> 00:02:28,490 David Tudehope: midnight, and then we'd arrive at Melbourne at dawn, I'd 47 00:02:28,490 --> 00:02:31,250 David Tudehope: get changed into my suit, do the day's business, then 48 00:02:31,250 --> 00:02:32,419 David Tudehope: climb back on the bus- 49 00:02:32,660 --> 00:02:32,661 Sean Aylmer: Wow. 50 00:02:32,661 --> 00:02:36,650 David Tudehope: ... at the end of the day, and I did that for the first few years, and luckily I 51 00:02:36,650 --> 00:02:38,820 David Tudehope: was younger, but it was the only way to do 52 00:02:38,820 --> 00:02:42,090 David Tudehope: it, and certainly it's underlined just why you'd need competition 53 00:02:42,090 --> 00:02:42,889 David Tudehope: in every industry. 54 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:48,540 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Okay. The business itself has morphed several times over 55 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,880 Sean Aylmer: several years. What did you start as, and then I 56 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,960 Sean Aylmer: just want to go through the different divisions that you run now, 57 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:59,150 Sean Aylmer: the cloud services, your data centers, the original Macquarie Telecom government. 58 00:02:59,470 --> 00:03:03,440 David Tudehope: Yeah, we started, as the name suggests, in telecom. It was business customers from the 59 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,450 David Tudehope: beginning, corporate customers, the ones I'd known from the bank 60 00:03:06,530 --> 00:03:10,210 David Tudehope: originally, and then we broadened from there. From the beginning, 61 00:03:10,510 --> 00:03:13,419 David Tudehope: our company purpose, our why, was to make a difference 62 00:03:13,419 --> 00:03:16,750 David Tudehope: in markets that are underserved and overcharged, and telecoms was 63 00:03:16,750 --> 00:03:20,230 David Tudehope: clearly that, and we just really carved out a place 64 00:03:20,230 --> 00:03:22,090 David Tudehope: for ourselves as the people you go to for great 65 00:03:22,090 --> 00:03:25,110 David Tudehope: customer experience. Then we identified, as the years went on, 66 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:30,000 David Tudehope: other markets which were underserved and overcharged, and we also 67 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,320 David Tudehope: identified adjacencies to telecom as well, so it did leverage 68 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:37,240 David Tudehope: our telecom business, and that's how we broadened from not 69 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,530 David Tudehope: just the telecom links where the data would be kept 70 00:03:39,530 --> 00:03:41,100 David Tudehope: in the future was through data centers, so we built 71 00:03:41,100 --> 00:03:43,780 David Tudehope: the very first third party data center in Sydney in the year 72 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:49,130 David Tudehope: 2000, then we broadened out to do cloud services very 73 00:03:49,130 --> 00:03:53,130 David Tudehope: soon after that when they were embryonic, and then we broadened out 74 00:03:53,580 --> 00:03:57,809 David Tudehope: to do cybersecurity back in 2005, and we identified that 75 00:03:57,810 --> 00:04:00,240 David Tudehope: all these things would be the key to a future 76 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,570 David Tudehope: telecom network. Instead of the network linking the corporate office 77 00:04:03,570 --> 00:04:07,040 David Tudehope: to the branches, we identified that logically the computers would 78 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,780 David Tudehope: move into a central office, a central data center, and 79 00:04:09,780 --> 00:04:12,570 David Tudehope: the telecom networks would radiate out from that and that 80 00:04:12,740 --> 00:04:15,880 David Tudehope: the way people run their IT systems and they secure 81 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,290 David Tudehope: them would be very different, and that's a big part 82 00:04:19,290 --> 00:04:21,250 David Tudehope: of how we built the strategy, but that need to 83 00:04:21,250 --> 00:04:23,500 David Tudehope: adapt was the common thread right the way through that. 84 00:04:23,830 --> 00:04:27,190 Sean Aylmer: It's not so much disrupting yourself, it's actually building on 85 00:04:27,470 --> 00:04:30,890 Sean Aylmer: your existing processes. You've done pretty well though, effectively to 86 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,469 Sean Aylmer: pick three winners in data centers, cloud and cybersecurity. If 87 00:04:36,470 --> 00:04:39,500 Sean Aylmer: you can get into those at the embryonic stage, you 88 00:04:39,500 --> 00:04:41,920 Sean Aylmer: are doing very well because obviously they're three huge parts 89 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:43,909 Sean Aylmer: of technology now. How did you know? 90 00:04:43,910 --> 00:04:48,000 David Tudehope: Yeah. In the tech sector trends come, there's a lot 91 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,529 David Tudehope: of noise, a lot of buzz of hype around trends, 92 00:04:50,910 --> 00:04:52,660 David Tudehope: and the challenge is trying to separate the hype from 93 00:04:52,660 --> 00:04:54,810 David Tudehope: the reality. You also get a lot of trends where 94 00:04:54,870 --> 00:04:57,240 David Tudehope: the reality might work in the US because the size 95 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,990 David Tudehope: of the market, but it'll never reach Australia in a 96 00:04:59,990 --> 00:05:02,710 David Tudehope: meaningful way, or the sectors that are very large in 97 00:05:02,710 --> 00:05:05,330 David Tudehope: the US that are quite small in Australia, so a 98 00:05:05,330 --> 00:05:06,810 David Tudehope: big part of it was trying to work out which trends 99 00:05:06,810 --> 00:05:08,700 David Tudehope: are going to have the biggest impact, and then of 100 00:05:08,700 --> 00:05:11,050 David Tudehope: course from that list going, " Alright well, does it actually 101 00:05:11,050 --> 00:05:13,159 David Tudehope: fit our business model? Does it fit our customer needs 102 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,940 David Tudehope: in that medium to large corporate and government customer segment 103 00:05:15,940 --> 00:05:18,130 David Tudehope: we focus on?" That's the hard part, and the way 104 00:05:18,130 --> 00:05:20,580 David Tudehope: we do that, right throughout from the beginning, we have 105 00:05:20,580 --> 00:05:23,400 David Tudehope: this philosophy, what I call a Noah's Ark, we take 106 00:05:23,779 --> 00:05:27,330 David Tudehope: one of each species and we go at least twice 107 00:05:27,330 --> 00:05:30,820 David Tudehope: a year to the US, more recently to Europe, similarities 108 00:05:30,820 --> 00:05:33,560 David Tudehope: to our market, and that has absolutely been critical for 109 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,220 David Tudehope: us to separate. What we do, we take a salesperson, 110 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:40,510 David Tudehope: marketing person, a product manager, an engineer, an executive or 111 00:05:40,510 --> 00:05:43,550 David Tudehope: two, and we just go deep dive around one or 112 00:05:43,550 --> 00:05:49,650 David Tudehope: two big trends. It's the concentration of focus for that two- 113 00:05:49,650 --> 00:05:52,609 David Tudehope: week period with probably another fortnight of work beforehand and 114 00:05:52,610 --> 00:05:55,950 David Tudehope: probably at least another month afterwards, it's that concentration of 115 00:05:55,950 --> 00:05:59,370 David Tudehope: focus in two weeks without distractions of normal life, of 116 00:05:59,370 --> 00:06:01,729 David Tudehope: breakfast, lunch, and dinner and sleeping on the one thought, 117 00:06:02,250 --> 00:06:05,700 David Tudehope: that gets the greatest clarity in our experience on these 118 00:06:05,700 --> 00:06:08,210 David Tudehope: emerging trends, and frankly everything we've done in that business, 119 00:06:08,210 --> 00:06:12,440 David Tudehope: not just the cloud, cyber, data center changes, but also 120 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,440 David Tudehope: within that, the product moves we've made have all come 121 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:16,679 David Tudehope: out of one of those study trips- 122 00:06:16,770 --> 00:06:16,770 Sean Aylmer: Wow. 123 00:06:16,770 --> 00:06:18,320 David Tudehope: ... and that's been really key to our success. 124 00:06:18,630 --> 00:06:20,890 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. It's like full immersion, just about. 125 00:06:21,190 --> 00:06:24,529 David Tudehope: It's full immersion and the concentration of thinking with diversity 126 00:06:24,529 --> 00:06:27,109 David Tudehope: of thinking, because one of the interesting parts is we typically go 127 00:06:27,110 --> 00:06:29,170 David Tudehope: to meetings... when we're over there we meet with people 128 00:06:29,170 --> 00:06:31,640 David Tudehope: who are in businesses like ours, but obviously not competitors because 129 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,810 David Tudehope: they're in a different market to us. We meet with some suppliers, not 130 00:06:34,810 --> 00:06:38,479 David Tudehope: too many because we get a lot of the hype here. We meet with consultants, 131 00:06:38,870 --> 00:06:42,490 David Tudehope: we meet with analysts, and what we find is out 132 00:06:42,490 --> 00:06:46,220 David Tudehope: of the one meeting you can get six different perspectives. If 133 00:06:46,300 --> 00:06:49,380 David Tudehope: anybody got a notepad full of thoughts from the meeting, when we've 134 00:06:49,380 --> 00:06:52,969 David Tudehope: debriefed later, the engineer has completely different insight to the 135 00:06:52,970 --> 00:06:56,080 David Tudehope: marketer, to the executive, and you were in the same meeting and you 136 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,830 David Tudehope: made the same notes. The engineers fascinated that they've moved 137 00:06:59,830 --> 00:07:02,540 David Tudehope: to version 3. 2 of the software and there's been 138 00:07:02,540 --> 00:07:03,739 David Tudehope: a whole lot of bugs with version 3. 1 and, " 139 00:07:04,930 --> 00:07:06,330 David Tudehope: What a near miss we had there because we're thinking of 3.1." 140 00:07:06,331 --> 00:07:06,491 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 141 00:07:07,910 --> 00:07:10,350 David Tudehope: The marketers didn't even pick that up. The marketers focused on, " 142 00:07:10,350 --> 00:07:12,310 David Tudehope: Did you see how the go- to- market was? Wasn't 143 00:07:12,310 --> 00:07:15,440 David Tudehope: that sensational? What about... Quite a great segment to target," and we 144 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,400 David Tudehope: were all in the same meeting, and that's part of 145 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,300 David Tudehope: the power of the Noah's Ark. 146 00:07:19,780 --> 00:07:22,140 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Stay with me, David. We'll be back in a 147 00:07:22,140 --> 00:07:29,640 Sean Aylmer: minute. My guest this morning is David Tudehope, founder and 148 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:35,330 Sean Aylmer: CEO of Macquarie Telecom Group. What's next then? I presume 149 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,910 Sean Aylmer: cybersecurity and cloud computing have a long, long way to 150 00:07:38,910 --> 00:07:42,380 Sean Aylmer: run, but is that just about them getting bigger or 151 00:07:42,380 --> 00:07:47,220 Sean Aylmer: is it actually about them developing, reinventing themselves, or is 152 00:07:47,220 --> 00:07:49,100 Sean Aylmer: there something else on the horizon that you're thinking about? 153 00:07:49,100 --> 00:07:51,720 David Tudehope: Yeah. These are megatrends. They've got a long way to 154 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:56,020 David Tudehope: go and the momentum is just going to continue. No question 155 00:07:56,060 --> 00:07:59,010 David Tudehope: COVID has accelerated that momentum. The classic, what we call 156 00:07:59,010 --> 00:08:02,360 David Tudehope: in our industry, the box- hugging heads of IT have lost their 157 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,330 David Tudehope: appetite for that, having been working from home for two 158 00:08:04,330 --> 00:08:07,200 David Tudehope: years now. The idea of having your own computer room 159 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,080 David Tudehope: and buying your service off the nice man from HP 160 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,100 David Tudehope: with cups of coffee down the road, that's no longer 161 00:08:13,270 --> 00:08:16,010 David Tudehope: in the thoughts of the vast bulk of IT managers. 162 00:08:16,010 --> 00:08:18,920 David Tudehope: They're now thinking about, " How can I buy a managed 163 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,110 David Tudehope: service? How can I get someone else to worry about 164 00:08:21,110 --> 00:08:24,410 David Tudehope: this 24/7?" The expectations of end users has gone up 165 00:08:24,420 --> 00:08:26,780 David Tudehope: as well, because there was a time when you could 166 00:08:26,910 --> 00:08:29,860 David Tudehope: you just walk down the corridor to the IT team, 167 00:08:29,950 --> 00:08:32,559 David Tudehope: help desk team, and say, "Can you sort this out?" Now when you're 168 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,790 David Tudehope: at home, that's not an option so you have to self- 169 00:08:34,790 --> 00:08:37,990 David Tudehope: help, which means you become more focused on, " Why is 170 00:08:37,990 --> 00:08:41,229 David Tudehope: our IT department buying something that's not a fully managed 171 00:08:41,230 --> 00:08:45,610 David Tudehope: service? Why isn't it just always on?" The expectations of 172 00:08:45,750 --> 00:08:48,459 David Tudehope: end users has also increased during COVID, so all those 173 00:08:48,460 --> 00:08:51,910 David Tudehope: factors have accelerated the move towards cloud, and you combine 174 00:08:51,910 --> 00:08:54,809 David Tudehope: that with the much higher risk of cyberattacks, and I 175 00:08:54,809 --> 00:08:57,370 David Tudehope: think you wind back even three or four years ago, 176 00:08:57,770 --> 00:09:00,679 David Tudehope: there were plenty of people who were very conscious of cybersecurity, 177 00:09:01,150 --> 00:09:03,579 David Tudehope: but a lot of people would glaze over and say, " Well no, 178 00:09:03,580 --> 00:09:06,250 David Tudehope: talk to my IT guy about that." That's changed dramatically, 179 00:09:06,250 --> 00:09:10,220 David Tudehope: because if they haven't experienced a cyberattack themselves or ransomware attack, 180 00:09:10,620 --> 00:09:11,900 David Tudehope: they know someone who has- 181 00:09:12,250 --> 00:09:12,251 Sean Aylmer: Yep. 182 00:09:12,251 --> 00:09:14,620 David Tudehope: ... and now they see the real cost associated with that. 183 00:09:14,950 --> 00:09:16,689 Sean Aylmer: Certainly boards are interested in it, that's for sure. 184 00:09:17,059 --> 00:09:19,229 David Tudehope: Boards are totally interested in it. In fact boards are 185 00:09:19,230 --> 00:09:22,309 David Tudehope: often the ones who drive the CFO to make the 186 00:09:22,309 --> 00:09:24,850 David Tudehope: investment, because a lot of the time we saw CFOs 187 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:30,130 David Tudehope: quite enjoy the conversation with us about cybersecurity, but at 188 00:09:30,130 --> 00:09:31,620 David Tudehope: the end of the day they'd go, " Look, we haven't got the 189 00:09:31,620 --> 00:09:33,199 David Tudehope: budget this year. Let's look at it next year," and 190 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:34,070 David Tudehope: it was always next year- 191 00:09:34,070 --> 00:09:34,071 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 192 00:09:34,071 --> 00:09:36,339 David Tudehope: ... and the IT guy would just hire an extra person or 193 00:09:36,340 --> 00:09:39,440 David Tudehope: something (inaudible) and can't be all good. Now that has 194 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,820 David Tudehope: changed dramatically and there's no question that we're seeing people 195 00:09:43,820 --> 00:09:47,700 David Tudehope: spending real money on IT services and no longer just 196 00:09:47,700 --> 00:09:51,160 David Tudehope: simply buying the next gadget and being placated. 197 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,110 Sean Aylmer: Yep, yep. One of the defining features in Macquarie Telecom over 198 00:09:55,190 --> 00:09:57,910 Sean Aylmer: many years, 30 years in fact, or more than 20 years since 199 00:09:57,910 --> 00:10:00,309 Sean Aylmer: you've been listed, you don't mind taking on the big 200 00:10:00,309 --> 00:10:04,370 Sean Aylmer: gorillas, starting with Telstra. We started talking about duopolies, but your 201 00:10:04,370 --> 00:10:08,510 Sean Aylmer: space is much, much more competitive now than it was 202 00:10:08,510 --> 00:10:11,589 Sean Aylmer: five years ago, let alone 30 years ago. How do you do that? How do 203 00:10:12,470 --> 00:10:15,640 Sean Aylmer: you take the big cloud service providers on? How do 204 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:16,980 Sean Aylmer: you take big telcos on? 205 00:10:17,340 --> 00:10:20,480 David Tudehope: We look for markets that are underserved and overcharged, and 206 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,640 David Tudehope: that typically means there's a very small number of large 207 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:29,340 David Tudehope: providers who are making extraordinary profits and they don't need 208 00:10:29,340 --> 00:10:33,209 David Tudehope: to worry about the customer experience. Their market power is 209 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,320 David Tudehope: so significant that they can make announcements every now and then and appoint 210 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,970 David Tudehope: new Chief Customer Officers, but they don't actually have to sweat it, 211 00:10:40,290 --> 00:10:42,510 David Tudehope: and that's certainly the case in telecom. The telecom industry, 212 00:10:42,510 --> 00:10:47,100 David Tudehope: it's still an industry that I think is failing the 213 00:10:47,100 --> 00:10:50,470 David Tudehope: country. It has twice the number of complaints, the telecom 214 00:10:50,470 --> 00:10:55,110 David Tudehope: ombudsman has complaints to the equivalent banking industry ombudsman, so 215 00:10:55,330 --> 00:10:58,579 David Tudehope: this is an industry in its own special space, and 216 00:10:58,890 --> 00:11:03,300 David Tudehope: in that environment we can really differentiate. We are massive 217 00:11:03,550 --> 00:11:06,660 David Tudehope: converts to the promoter score that came out about 15 218 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,809 David Tudehope: years ago. It has transformed our business and that's one 219 00:11:10,809 --> 00:11:12,940 David Tudehope: of the most important things for us, because it's brought 220 00:11:12,940 --> 00:11:15,580 David Tudehope: to life our company purpose, but also this is true 221 00:11:15,580 --> 00:11:18,670 David Tudehope: in cloud services and the government space. In the government space we compete 222 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:23,140 David Tudehope: with a range of organizations, including large outsources that back 223 00:11:23,140 --> 00:11:26,390 David Tudehope: in the 90s won these long 10- year contracts they've 224 00:11:26,390 --> 00:11:30,420 David Tudehope: had renewed since, and the incentive to improve customer experiences 225 00:11:30,420 --> 00:11:34,240 David Tudehope: is almost nil because the customer can't leave for ever. 226 00:11:34,750 --> 00:11:36,929 David Tudehope: So you can see in those environments, yes, there's large 227 00:11:36,929 --> 00:11:41,300 David Tudehope: players, but they're also ones that have such market power 228 00:11:41,300 --> 00:11:43,959 David Tudehope: they don't need to sweat customer experience, so that's where 229 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:45,680 David Tudehope: we can really make a difference for customers. 230 00:11:46,110 --> 00:11:49,730 Sean Aylmer: David, you've been running this business for 30 years or 231 00:11:49,730 --> 00:11:53,800 Sean Aylmer: thereabouts, you've been listed for 23 years I think, 1999, 232 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,230 Sean Aylmer: so coming on to 23 years anyway, making you the 233 00:11:56,260 --> 00:11:58,579 Sean Aylmer: one of the longest serving CEOs of an ASX listed 234 00:11:58,580 --> 00:12:02,610 Sean Aylmer: company. Surely you must be over the half- year PowerPoint 235 00:12:02,710 --> 00:12:03,709 Sean Aylmer: deck by now? 236 00:12:04,290 --> 00:12:06,209 David Tudehope: What's kept me in the business is that it always 237 00:12:06,210 --> 00:12:10,700 David Tudehope: changes. The great thing about the tech sector is whatever we talk about today 238 00:12:10,900 --> 00:12:13,620 David Tudehope: will be kind of relevant in a few years' time, 239 00:12:13,870 --> 00:12:17,219 David Tudehope: certainly irrelevant within five years, and the cybersecurity space is even 240 00:12:17,220 --> 00:12:18,810 David Tudehope: faster. It moves in a year. 241 00:12:18,970 --> 00:12:19,150 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 242 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,090 David Tudehope: For me it's so stimulating. I love to learn new 243 00:12:22,090 --> 00:12:26,270 David Tudehope: things. I've got an inquiring mind and when what you're 244 00:12:26,390 --> 00:12:28,620 David Tudehope: discussing every day is so different to what you discussed 245 00:12:28,620 --> 00:12:31,520 David Tudehope: only a year or two or three years before, it's 246 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:33,370 David Tudehope: a fun place to be and I think the industry 247 00:12:33,370 --> 00:12:36,090 David Tudehope: tends to attract people like that, people who are technically 248 00:12:36,090 --> 00:12:39,240 David Tudehope: literate and who love to just have an inquiring mind 249 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,550 David Tudehope: and like to explore new things, and that's certainly what's 250 00:12:42,550 --> 00:12:44,290 David Tudehope: kept me passionate about the business, and I'd say the 251 00:12:44,290 --> 00:12:46,880 David Tudehope: other aspect is I really love the company purpose and 252 00:12:47,150 --> 00:12:50,030 David Tudehope: I really find it exciting to think... you see the difference 253 00:12:50,030 --> 00:12:53,740 David Tudehope: you make to customers' lives, the customers' businesses, when the 254 00:12:53,740 --> 00:12:56,010 David Tudehope: customer experience kicks in and they go, " Oh my goodness. 255 00:12:56,350 --> 00:12:58,380 David Tudehope: I can't believe all those years I suffered and tried 256 00:12:58,380 --> 00:13:00,140 David Tudehope: to make it work with overseas call centers." 257 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:00,201 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 258 00:13:00,201 --> 00:13:03,510 David Tudehope: " Thank goodness I get that sort of great experience locally and that 259 00:13:03,970 --> 00:13:07,560 David Tudehope: sort of fast responsiveness that's so important in a post- COVID world." 260 00:13:08,010 --> 00:13:09,900 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. David, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 261 00:13:10,330 --> 00:13:10,680 David Tudehope: Pleasure. 262 00:13:11,010 --> 00:13:14,359 Sean Aylmer: That was David Tudehope, founder and CEO of Macquarie Telecom 263 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,809 Sean Aylmer: Group. This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join 264 00:13:16,809 --> 00:13:19,140 Sean Aylmer: me every morning for the full Fear and Greed podcast 265 00:13:19,140 --> 00:13:21,420 Sean Aylmer: with all the business news you need to know. I'm 266 00:13:21,420 --> 00:13:22,870 Sean Aylmer: Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.