WEBVTT - Geraldine Brooks on Anthony Albanese's legacy

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<v Speaker 1>From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven AM.

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<v Speaker 1>When Geraldine Brooks sat down for her first in a

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<v Speaker 1>series of conversations with Anthony Albenesi. It was just before

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<v Speaker 1>Christmas and his popularity had plummeted. The Prime Minister's net

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<v Speaker 1>approval rating had dropped to minus seventeen, while Peter Dutton's

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<v Speaker 1>had improved to zero. Albanesi's critics see him as weak

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<v Speaker 1>and ineffective, a narrative reinforced by the failure of the

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<v Speaker 1>Voice referendum and the perception of inaction on climate change.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a stark contrast to his past as a passionate

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<v Speaker 1>activist who was once arrested at an anti logging protest. Today,

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<v Speaker 1>author and contributor to The Monthly Geraldine Brooks on the

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<v Speaker 1>public perception of Anthony Alberesi and whether he's delivering on

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<v Speaker 1>the legacy he set out to leave. It's Friday, February

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<v Speaker 1>twenty eight. So, Jordane, as you were setting out to

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<v Speaker 1>profile the Prime Minister and the alban easy to spend

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<v Speaker 1>all this time with him, do you remember the image

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<v Speaker 1>that you had of him in your head at the time,

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<v Speaker 1>at the very beginning, who you thought he.

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<v Speaker 2>Was, Yeah, because for a long time I was actually

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<v Speaker 2>living in his electorate, so he's a very familiar cat

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<v Speaker 2>to me. He was my member, as golf Whitlam always

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<v Speaker 2>used to like to say my member. And he was

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<v Speaker 2>a guy who was very open and didn't mind socializing

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<v Speaker 2>with journalists. So I'd actually seen a bit of him

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<v Speaker 2>in the past, and I think that I can't disassociate

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<v Speaker 2>him from the guys I grew up with, which were

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<v Speaker 2>lower middle class Catholic boys who went to the school

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<v Speaker 2>next door to mine de la.

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<v Speaker 3>Salle, Ashfield.

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<v Speaker 2>They were nice boys, idealistic, very much caught up in

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<v Speaker 2>the social justice movements of the time, and so he

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<v Speaker 2>reads as like the neighborhood guy to me.

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<v Speaker 1>And how do you think he was seen by the

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<v Speaker 1>public when he first became Prime minister three years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>I think he was seen as this likable, decent guy

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<v Speaker 2>who understood struggle, the houser who'd grown up with the

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<v Speaker 2>mum with severe disabilities and been super responsible in looking

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<v Speaker 2>after her, and that he was considered a bit of

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<v Speaker 2>a champion of the labor left. He was known as

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<v Speaker 2>such an activist in his university days and he brought

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<v Speaker 2>that with him when he was assistant secretary to the

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<v Speaker 2>New South Wales Labor Party, always seen as that guy

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<v Speaker 2>who wasn't afraid to take on the Tories, but with

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<v Speaker 2>this basic likability and decency.

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<v Speaker 1>Since that moment, though, his approval ratings have declined dramatically. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>Peter Dutton's have gone up. So what do you think

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<v Speaker 1>has changed?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I think the electorate's very childish at the moment,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think this is true in almost all liberal democracies.

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<v Speaker 2>You see it in New Zealand, you see it in Europe.

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<v Speaker 2>You certainly see the disastrous consequences in the United States

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<v Speaker 2>where more than half the electorate just voted for chaos

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<v Speaker 2>and cruelty. I think there's a throw the bums out

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<v Speaker 2>hangover from COVID, and yes, of course there's a reason

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<v Speaker 2>for that. Inflation is really killing people, and the cost

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<v Speaker 2>of education and the increasing cost of healthcare and interest

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<v Speaker 2>rates and all of this kind of falls on the incumbent.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I think that Albanese has suffered also from

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<v Speaker 2>the defeat of the Voice to Parliament. It's been very

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<v Speaker 2>hard for him to recover his mojo from that, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think that Dutton played a very sinister hand there

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<v Speaker 2>because all the indications were that this would be a

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<v Speaker 2>bipartisan thing. It was actually a very small ask, and

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<v Speaker 2>yet Dutton was able to see an opportunity to characterize

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<v Speaker 2>it as something huge and mischaracterize it as divisive when

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<v Speaker 2>it was actually incredibly divisive of him to not support it.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think Albo got played.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you think that Anthony Ebineze does see as

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<v Speaker 1>his government's biggest successes.

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<v Speaker 2>I think he sees a lot of groundwork, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's true that they have laid groundwork for really

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<v Speaker 2>significant quality of life changes for people. They're characterized a

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<v Speaker 2>small ball, but I tell you what, it's not small bore.

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<v Speaker 2>If you need to see doctor and you've got a

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<v Speaker 2>hurting kid in one of these eighty seven new Medibank

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<v Speaker 2>urgent care clinics has opened in your neighborhood and you

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<v Speaker 2>can get your kids seen rather than sitting in an

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<v Speaker 2>hospital and emergency room for twelve hours. These are the

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<v Speaker 2>things that impact people's lives. I think he's kept every

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<v Speaker 2>promise he made about women's issues in terms of decreasing

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<v Speaker 2>the wage gap, and he accomplished that by not only

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<v Speaker 2>several increases in the minimum wage, but also increasing wages

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<v Speaker 2>in aged care and childcare, which are predominantly female areas

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<v Speaker 2>of employment. Their housing crisis has been addressed in numerous

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<v Speaker 2>ways with rent subsidies and money for your social housing.

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<v Speaker 2>And yeah it wasn't as much as the Greens were

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<v Speaker 2>asking for, but it was a significant amount of money.

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<v Speaker 2>But his argument is that they've laid a basis for

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<v Speaker 2>consequence expansions of real assistance to struggling middle class and

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<v Speaker 2>lower middle class families and the things that they haven't

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<v Speaker 2>been able to do yet. They need a second term

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<v Speaker 2>and they don't want to see what they have done reversed.

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<v Speaker 2>And Dutton is insistent that he's going to reverse a

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<v Speaker 2>great deal of it.

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<v Speaker 1>And so these kinds of policies are things that you've

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned like urgent care clinics and increasing wages, money for

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<v Speaker 1>social housing. Do you think that these are policies that

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<v Speaker 1>are cutting through? Do you get the sense of the

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<v Speaker 1>electorate thinks of this government has laid this basis for

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<v Speaker 1>really being able to help them.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I think they're clearly not cutting through. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think you know, there's been a relentlessly negative tattoo beaten

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<v Speaker 2>on the drums against Alvinzi and very little scrutiny or

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<v Speaker 2>equivalent scrutiny given to Peter Dutton and this ridiculous nuclear

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<v Speaker 2>fantasy he has that somehow we can go from zero

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<v Speaker 2>to one hundred on an industry that we don't have here.

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<v Speaker 3>Albanize has also been copying it from.

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<v Speaker 2>The left, and you know, some of that is because

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<v Speaker 2>he hasn't made the kind of persuasive case for the

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<v Speaker 2>urgency of our predicament with climate change and is still

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<v Speaker 2>approving new gas pipelines and expanding existing coal mines and

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<v Speaker 2>then seeing you know, the failure to bring the environmental

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<v Speaker 2>protection legislation forward in an aggressive way and really fight

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<v Speaker 2>for the votes that we needed to pass it. These

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<v Speaker 2>things they drown out the work that is being done.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't think he's putting a strong enough case

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<v Speaker 2>for what the second term will bring and what his

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<v Speaker 2>real passions are. You know, I've heard him speak passionately

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<v Speaker 2>about his legacy and his legacy wanting to be to

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<v Speaker 2>take action against climate change that's irreversible. He doesn't bring

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<v Speaker 2>that out with the passion that I believe he feels.

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<v Speaker 1>After the break Albaneze's failure to push back against the

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<v Speaker 1>negative narratives.

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<v Speaker 4>What legacy would you like to leave in your story

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<v Speaker 4>in your Australian and the Australian story.

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<v Speaker 5>Oh jee, I think acting acting on climate change. I think, yeah,

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<v Speaker 5>it's a big challenge, but it's an incredible opportunity to

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<v Speaker 5>grab it and sees it. So I think getting on

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<v Speaker 5>that road so that it can't be reversed.

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<v Speaker 1>Geraldine Anthony Aberineze says he wants his legacy to be

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<v Speaker 1>action on climate change. So how does that square then

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<v Speaker 1>with some of these decisions that he's made around the

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<v Speaker 1>Environmental Protection Act and approvals for new colon gas projects.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I don't.

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<v Speaker 2>I think he isn't doing the work that Alita needs

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<v Speaker 2>to do. You don't follow public opinion, You forge it,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. I think he says, well, if people click

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<v Speaker 2>a switch and the lights don't go on, you won't

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<v Speaker 2>stay in government. Well you might if you've made the

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<v Speaker 2>case that the most consequential thing that's ever happened to

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<v Speaker 2>people on this planet is happening right now, which is

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<v Speaker 2>that human beings are living with hotter temperatures than any

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<v Speaker 2>human being has ever experienced in history, and that if

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<v Speaker 2>we don't take action on that, we won't have an

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<v Speaker 2>economy and I think that albans is really sincere about

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<v Speaker 2>wanting his legacy to be doing something to combat climate

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<v Speaker 2>change that's irreversible, and yet it seems to be contradicted

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<v Speaker 2>by his unwillingness to really make the incredibly hard decisions

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<v Speaker 2>and stand up to the fossil fuel industry.

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<v Speaker 1>And one particular criticism of Albanezi caving to pressure from

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<v Speaker 1>the fossil fuel industry was when he dropped the Environmental

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<v Speaker 1>Protection Bill at the end of last year. So what

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<v Speaker 1>did he say to you about why that was.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, he said that they didn't have the votes and

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<v Speaker 2>they were passing a raft of bills in those final

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<v Speaker 2>days of parliament and that day they passed thirty to

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<v Speaker 2>bills and he didn't feel like it was productive to

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<v Speaker 2>bring forward a bill that he knew they didn't have

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<v Speaker 2>the votes to pass. He didn't push back aggressively, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think in some ways his own worst enemy, because

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<v Speaker 2>you know, he allowed the premiere of Western Australia to

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<v Speaker 2>run around loading this as a victory over lat sipping Easterners,

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<v Speaker 2>when you know he could have pushed back and said, well,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, where are the independence you know, why aren't

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<v Speaker 2>they voting with us on this.

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<v Speaker 1>And that lack of pushback against a negative narrative that

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<v Speaker 1>might form around something that he or his government has done.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think that that has become a trait?

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<v Speaker 2>I think he needs to really look hard at messaging

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<v Speaker 2>at maybe too late, you know, there's narrative about him,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe too sticky.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the biggest challenges I think Anthony Albernezi has

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<v Speaker 1>been addressing the housing crisis in Australia. He obviously bought

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<v Speaker 1>a I think it was four point three million dollar

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<v Speaker 1>beach house recently. How much of an effect do you

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<v Speaker 1>think that has had? How much has that damaged him politically?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, the optics of that were absolutely terrible.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, he's probably the only person in Australia

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<v Speaker 2>who won't admit that many of his labor colleagues were

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<v Speaker 2>infuriated with him for the timing of that purchase.

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<v Speaker 1>What did he say when you asked about it?

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<v Speaker 2>His time at some point will come to an end.

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<v Speaker 2>He won't be living in the lodge and he and

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<v Speaker 2>his new wife won't go back to the house that

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<v Speaker 2>he lived in with his former wife. And his point

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<v Speaker 2>is that you know, Hawk bought a house and keating

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<v Speaker 2>bought a house, but the times were different and housing

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<v Speaker 2>is at the forefront of everybody's mind now, and so

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<v Speaker 2>I just think it was an incredible own goal and

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<v Speaker 2>it would be better if he expressed some self reflection

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<v Speaker 2>about that.

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<v Speaker 1>And so, going into this election, which could be called

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<v Speaker 1>any day now, what sense do you have of Albernesey's

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<v Speaker 1>ability to get this second term that he has been

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<v Speaker 1>so set on.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I'm concerned. I'm concerned.

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<v Speaker 2>I think he has a better, healthier, more progressive vision

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<v Speaker 2>for the country, but I'm not sure that he's going

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<v Speaker 2>to be able to convince an electorate in a very,

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<v Speaker 2>very bad mood.

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<v Speaker 1>And so, after all of the time that you spent

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<v Speaker 1>with him, what is your sense of who Anthony Albanezi

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<v Speaker 1>is now? Do you still see much of the local

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<v Speaker 1>member or the politician he was in opposition or even

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<v Speaker 1>you know, in his younger university days.

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<v Speaker 2>Ah, I wish he'd tap that inna Alba a bit more.

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<v Speaker 2>I still think that he is an incredibly decent man,

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<v Speaker 2>and as I said before, in these times that is

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<v Speaker 2>not nothing that I thought to myself, maybe you're a

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<v Speaker 2>bit more relaxed than you.

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<v Speaker 1>Should be in terms of the stakes. Of what's ahead.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you mean, well, I think he needed to be

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<v Speaker 2>a bit more worried about the drop in the opinion polls.

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<v Speaker 2>He was inclined not to take it too personally, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's a mistake. I mean, he was saying

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<v Speaker 2>global inflation has caused a turn against incumbent governments everywhere,

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<v Speaker 2>which is true.

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<v Speaker 3>But it's not enough to say that. I mean, you

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<v Speaker 3>really have to fight for it.

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<v Speaker 1>Jeraldine, thank you so much for your time.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>You can read Geraldine Brooks essay on Anthony Albanezi in

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<v Speaker 1>the March edition of The Monthly. It'll be on newsstands

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<v Speaker 1>next week and online for subscribers later today. Also in

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<v Speaker 1>the News Today, Donald Trump has ordered the expansion of DOGE,

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<v Speaker 1>the Department of Government Efficiency, in spite of mounting criticism

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<v Speaker 1>against the department and its overseer, Elon Musk. The new

0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:53.280
<v Speaker 1>auto directs federal agencies to publicly release government payments and

0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:56.800
<v Speaker 1>travel expenses, as well as work with DOGED when any

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<v Speaker 1>contracts that are deemed unnecessary. It follows the resignation of

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<v Speaker 1>more than twenty civil servants from the Department of Government

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<v Speaker 1>Efficiency over the refusal to use their technical expertise to

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<v Speaker 1>quote dismantle critical public services and a Melbourne graffiti artist

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<v Speaker 1>who painted Pam the Bird across Melbourne City has been

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<v Speaker 1>granted bail. Twenty one year old Jack Gibson Burrow was

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<v Speaker 1>charged with fifty offenses of criminal damage over the blue

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<v Speaker 1>and white bird that police allege Gibson Burrell painted on

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<v Speaker 1>landmarks including Flinders Street station clock and a number of trains.

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<v Speaker 1>Seven Am is a daily show from Schwartz Media and

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<v Speaker 1>The Saturday Paper. It's made by Atticus Bastow, Shane Anderson,

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<v Speaker 1>Chris Danegate, Daniel James, Eric Jensen, Sarah mcvee, Travis Evans,

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<v Speaker 1>Sutton Vecho and myself Ruby Jones. Our theme music has

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<v Speaker 1>been at Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Audio and

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<v Speaker 1>we'll be back on Monday.